Sally Sloane, Australian source singer (1894-1982)

Subject: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Tony Rees
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 04:58 AM

I've been doing a bit of research on the amazing Australian source singer and musician Sally Sloane (1894-1982), who not only sang (really well) but also played at an accomplished level on (at least) button accordion, jew's harp, fiddle, mouth organ and tin whistle. John Meredith, well known Australian folk song collector, was introduced to her in 1955 and went on to record an astonishing 150 songs and tunes from her, surely something of a record for an individual informant anywhere ?? Part of her importance from a folklore perspective is that, in addition to being a storehouse of Australian songs etc., she also had versions of many Irish and British songs which were brought to Australia by her Irish grandmother, who arrived there in 1838.

I have tried to summarise what I have found, with a modicum of sleuthing (internet sources in the main), at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Sloane . I invite mudcat readers to take a look, if only to be impressed at her achievements and life, but also if anyone would like to comment further - for example on the folkloristic aspects of her material, with which I am not too familiar - or anything really, comments are very welcome.

I believe she had 5 children in her early life (e.g. 1911-1920 or so) but they would almost certainly have passed away by now; however it is quite likely that grandchildren may be around - their parents with a birth surname of Mountford - wouldn't it be great if some of them were aware of the achievements of their grandmother...

Anyway I thought I would just put this out there and see what eventuates,

Regards from Australia - Tony Rees

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:00 AM

Thanks for that Tony
Been waiting for thet since her album came out
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:00 AM

Thanks for that Tony
Been waiting for thet since her album came out
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Helen
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:31 AM

Thanks Tony, I'll read your wiki article.

I can credit the 1967 Meredith & Anderson book Folk Songs of Australia and the Men and Women Who Sang Them with turning me towards folk music back in the late '60's when I used to borrow it from the library and attempt to play the tunes on a plastic whistle which I had been learning to play at school. Sally Sloane's tunes and songs were my favourites from the book.

I later bought both book 1 and book 2 and still treasure them.

I have also listened to some of Sally Sloane's recordings on the National Library of Australia archives.

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:11 AM

Wikipedia says the grandmother was born in Co. Kerry, but reference 4 of the Wikipedia article says Belfast. However the latter has a chunk of text repeated so seems not to have been put together with much care.

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:33 AM

"Kerry/Belfast"
I'd be interested to learn if she knew any Child Ballads (a project I'm involved in)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Tony Rees
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:36 AM

Richard Mellish: "Wikipedia says" currently = what I have put there. John Meredith (who should know) always said Kerry. I do not know why 2 other sources say Belfast - they do not source that info, I am presently viewing it as an error (see note on Wikipedia article), but happy to be corrected... Cheers Tony

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Tony Rees
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:37 AM

Jim - full list at http://www.simplyaustralia.net/sally-sloane/ - scroll down to "extras" > "list of collected songs and tunes".

- Tony

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:11 AM

Thanks Tony - 'Your blood's worth bottling' as they say in Dublin (the other side of the country to where I am)
Can aI say while I'm on that my query includes all source singer with Irish connections
I have been compiling examples of Irish versions of Child Ballad for some time now - I've done marvelously from Canada and the North Eastern United States but nothing from either Oz or NZ to date
Any help or advice would be appreciated
Jim

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:37 AM

Jim, perhaps the following will be of some use:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3813913?seq=1

(Just click the small x in the log-in announcement and you'll be able to read the page with out the box in the way.)

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 11:14 AM

Thanks Starship
I have hiundrds of the old Journals but no up-to-date ones at all
I actually have a limited subscription to Jstor which I have yet to get the hang of
Jim

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Tony Rees
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 02:18 PM

Jim, item 9 (currently - these things move around) in the Sally Sloane Wikipedia page will take you to Warren Fahey's recordings list which is separate from the list of Meredith-recorded items that Valda Low compiled. There may be something there as well.

Also worth noting is that while Meredith recorded Sally Sloane in the field and a subset of the songs were then issued on Wattle's "Australian Traditional Singers and Musicians" in 1957, Wattle took her into the studio to re-record the chosen numbers for release, and so those versions are different and in at least one case ("Christ was born in Bethlehem") she apparently remembered extra verses...

- Tony

Regards - Tony

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Tony Rees
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:16 PM

Apparently Bert Lloyd did not think too much of Sally's Irish-derived repertoire - "standard nineteenth century stuff of no special interest [to a folklorist]" (my paraphrase). I wonder if others might think differently??

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 20 - 08:40 PM

hi Tony

I've just heard about your work on the Sally Sloane wiki and, after reading through it, I'd like to congratulate you on consolidating so much useful information about Sally's life and music.

The detail about Harry Kay being taught tunes by Sally and then transcribing them into sheet music was very interesting. I've added Killaloe to the list of recorded tunes played by Sally at https://sallysloane.wordpress.com

Ian Hayden

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Tony Rees
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 03:58 PM

Thanks Ian... the info regarding Harry Kay/Sally Sloane came an email from Sandra Nixon (Sandra in Sydney on mudcat) for which thanks!

"consolidating so much useful information" - yes the information is out there, but takes a lot of ferreting to locate (and sometimes make sense of), and I believe Wikipedia is an excellent repository for the results! Also can be updated though time, as new information comes to hand.

Cheers - Tony

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 08:32 PM

When Harry (Kay) met Sally (Sloane).

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 09:14 PM

Gerry!

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: GUEST,Ian Hayden
Date: 15 May 22 - 08:46 PM

Hi Tony

A friend has recently researched Sally Sloane's family history and found convincing evidence that Sally's maternal grandmother (Sarah Alexander) was born in Moira Co Down, which is close to Belfast.

cheers, Ian

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane - Australian source singer
From: Helen
Date: 15 May 22 - 09:10 PM

The link to the webpage provided by Tony Rees on 29 Mar 20 - 06:37 AM:

Who is Sally Sloane?

On the tab entitled Sally and Fred Sloane, under the heading of The Later Years it says:

"For a ten year period, between 1956 and 1966, Sally and Fred Sloane moved to the central coast of NSW – firstly to Fennells Bay right on the water and then to Teralba, a little south of the industrial city of Newcastle."

I live in Newcastle, NSW so not far from there.

The National Library of Australia resources including recordings are here:

NLA

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane, Australian source singer (1894-1982)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 May 22 - 09:43 PM

thanks, Ian

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane, Australian source singer (1894-1982)
From: Tony Rees
Date: 16 May 22 - 07:02 PM

Thanks, Helen, I have added the NLA link to the "External Links" section of the Sally Sloane Wikipedia page. If you have any suggestions for improving any of the wording in that article, feel free to suggest them - or persons can make the edits themselves, with a suitable Wikipedia login...

Ian, regarding the possible place of birth of Sally's Irish grandmother, the article would need to cite a "reliable, published source" for any new information, refer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources, so when that is available, the article can be updated :)

Cheers - Tony

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane, Australian source singer (1894-1982)
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 22 - 04:44 AM

Tony, from the National Library of Australia's biographical entry for Sally at http://nla.gov.au/nla.party-680055

"Many of the songs Sloane sang were learned from the singing of her mother, who was born Sarah Anne Dean in 1859. Sarah Dean had learnt the same songs from her mother Sarah Alexander, who was a trained singer born in Belfast, Ireland in 1816. "

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane, Australian source singer (1894-1982)
From: Tony Rees
Date: 20 May 22 - 03:10 PM

Hi Guest, yes I am aware of this, and mention it in a footnote (note "a") in the article, currently written as follows:

"2 sources, which may have copied from each other (Low, 2003 and trove.nla.gov.au), state that Sally's grandmother was born in Belfast, which conflicts with the published statements of John Meredith (who undoubtedly knew Sally best) and others that Sally's grandmother came from County Kerry in the west of Ireland. In the absence of other evidence, it is presumed at this time that the statement by Meredith, etc. is correct and that the sources with conflicting information are in error."

I guess I could turn that around but would still prefer something more definitive to go on...

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane, Australian source singer (1894-1982)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 May 22 - 04:05 PM

Of course we all have 2 grandmothers don't we?

Subject: RE: Sally Sloane, Australian source singer (1894-1982)
From: Tony Rees
Date: 21 May 22 - 07:02 PM

Correct Steve, however I think only one of Sally's grandmothers emigrated to Oz :)

- Tony