BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)

Subject: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: JennieG
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 07:56 PM

.......why it is that some Murricans and Canadians will not write the word "hell"? Do they think that by writing "H-E-double hockey sticks" they will lessen their chances of ending up there?

I noticed it appearing on blogs a few years ago, and have been intrigued ever since. In this time of home isolation and a certain amount of boredom I thought it the perfect time to ask, because it might give your collective brains something to think about other than "what chair will I sit in today?"

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 08:48 PM

Puritanism

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 08:55 PM

Quite right, Mrrzy.
We get it schooled into us over here.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 09:11 PM

I hadn't noticed, JennieG.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 09:14 PM

Well, hell, I dunno. I always thought that "H-E-double hockey sticks" was said in jest, a humorous euphemism of something that didn't need to be euphemized.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Charmion
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 09:15 PM

People here (rural southwestern Ontario) still flinch at blasphemy and obscenity, especially in the presence of “ladies” and children. It’s just rude, they say, and “inappropriate”.

Now, I cuss like a trooper with a hangover, but I married a son of the manse who grew up in country villages. After thirty years in the Army and more than twenty years married to me, my poor husband still has a hard time with my vocabulary.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: meself
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 09:17 PM

I don't know - but I would assume that the only people writing that are teenage girls just being teenage girls. I'm a Canadian getting long in the tooth, and that is something I've only ever encountered recently on the internet, and it wasn't my impression that it was intended to be taken seriously.

On the other hand, there are certainly Christian fundamentalists who avoid certain such words that have religious implications. They take all that stuff quite seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 09:17 PM

Is THAT what he is? A "son of the manse"? Gee, I didn't know they had those in Canada. And all this time, I just thought he was a nice guy. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: JennieG
Date: 02 Apr 20 - 09:58 PM

No, meself, they weren't teenage girls. They were women, and I would say most would be at least on the shady side of 50.

Charmion - one woman who used this euphemism was indeed from Ontario, just west of Toronto.

Out here in Oz when we want to say or write "hell", we just do.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: meself
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 01:13 AM

Well, I never. I grew up in southern Ontario, and this is new to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 01:17 AM

People who want to swear but are too shy about it and use something like that - might as well not bother. Just say "heck," it's much faster.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 01:58 AM

It's not just the word 'hell'. You get 'sh1t' or 'sh!t' as well. Otherwise sensible people here on Mudcat write about f*lk music and Fakebook, as if the very utterance of the actual word causes them pain. They think that they are being clever but it is just a childish affectation which becomes really annoying after a while.

Minced oaths have been around a long time in the spoken word. I use 'heck' without thinking but I find 'oh my gosh' for 'oh my God' really gets up my nose. Writing was normally used for more formal communication but with the coming of emails and texts, which are typed rather than written long-hand, alternatives such as the double hockey sticks have become available.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 02:28 AM

we also say/write other 4-letter words like gosh & darn ...

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 04:13 AM

Oooh this is fascinating! Bill Bryson in his book Mother Tongue devotes a whole chapter to swearing. His is an interesting perspective because he's an American who has lived for many years in UK.

I love 'minced oaths' although I'm ashamed to say I can swear like a trooper when riled, even in Malinke.

There are so many ways of expressing oneself in anger or surprise.
I like:- "Oh my giddy aunt!"
       "Well go to the foot of our stairs!"
       "Open the front door!"
       "Strike a light!"
and a whole selection of rude insults involving various genitalia!
'Hell' seems rather feeble in comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 04:18 AM

Altering expletives to make them sound or look less direct is just bollix. I mean, feck that. It's so frickin' childish. What the h*ll is wrong with these stupid James Blunts... They're just funkin' barstewards...

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 04:23 AM

Steve, :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 04:32 AM

Hee hee Steve! Our very Norfolk neighbour often says, "What the floiying hev yew been a-doing?" (to avoid saying the f word) or "Their blaaarsted dawg hev done a tom-tit on R gaaaarden!" (ie shit)

Cockney rhyming slang has dozens and dozens of euphemisms for swear-words,eg Donald Duck, Dipstick (prick), Bristols (Bristol City = titty), George The Third (turd)
I have a book/dictionary of these called Cockney Rabbit by Ray Puxley.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 11:15 AM

Here it is h-e-double *toothpicks* ... Here being the Southern US.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 11:15 AM

My father used to say: "Gotdandruffandsomeofititches"... to my mother's chagrin.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: meself
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 11:22 AM

There is a danger of sounding rather pompous when casting judgement on the language-usage of others, especially of those in geographical, social, or generational regions not your own. What in one regional context is clearly a euphemism may in another just be a more-or-less neutral, common word; i.e., the speaker is not deliberately using it to replace an objectionable word. So to suggest that, for instance, if someone uses 'gosh' or 'darn' it is because they are too prissy to say, 'God' or 'damn' reflects either limited experience or limited imagination. In all likelihood, the speaker of these 'euphemisms' has no urge to say 'God' or 'damn' - they probably grew up with 'gosh' and 'darn' in the familial and local vernacular and simply carried on the speech they had grown up with. If they were to expunge 'gosh' and 'darn' from their lexicon and replace them with 'God' and 'damn', it would be through deliberate effort - why should they bother? So someone on the internet won't sneer at them?

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: gillymor
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 11:33 AM

I don't think I've heard the euphemism in question, "H-E-double hockey sticks" used in the 3D world. It's usually deployed in films and on television by characters who are made to appear buffoonish by it's usage.
The America I grew up in is full of profane characters and language and my personal favorite expletive is "Jesus H. Fuckin' Christ".

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 05:33 PM

Unfortunately, I also use that one, but only because (a) there's little historical evidence that he existed, (b) even if he did he probably faced the same frustrations as the rest of us and swore like a trooper (who wouldn't, forced to hang out with a scruffy bunch of twelve blokes and no women), and (c) because I think he'd have thought that it was bloody funny. Bugger me sideways with a burnt chip if I'm wrong (and cheers to Raggytash for that beauty...)

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 07:03 PM

Heavens to Betsy! Such language! Why, shade my eyes but you folks are plumb earthy in your talking! Golly, I wonder why that is? Charmion I can see, given that she was a Command Sergeant Major and they are well know for their command of the Queen's English. But I was only a lowly three-stripe sergeant who was given command of the rottenest group of bastards who ever fouled the earth with their shit. But that was in the US Army and I certainly would never use any language that might give my Aunt Mildred offense. Aunt Mildred was a long-haul trucker who never used any oath greater than "My goodness gracious sakes alive!"

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 07:39 PM

For goodness sake, Rapparee. You surely mean "the rottenest group of b*ast*ards who ever fouled the Earth with their shi*t..." Do keep it clean, my dear man...

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: JennieG
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 09:19 PM

I quite like "Christ on a cracker"......have come across it in the occasional book written by an American author.

It does beg the question though - what cracker? The one Polly wants?

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 03:36 AM

I always thought that "H-E-double hockey sticks" was said in jest, a humorous euphemism of something that didn't need to be euphemized.

Well, when I watched US Arena Cross or similar 4 wheel stuff the winner usually says something like "I wrung the heck outta it".

Not to cause offence while plugging their sponsors? As if the grammar doesn't send shivers down the spine of us Brits. Don'tya know? Old bean!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 03:58 AM

The same reason why you use "Murricans."

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 04:06 AM

They think that they are being clever but it is just a childish affectation which becomes really annoying after a while

May be they are being just a soupcon too subtle for some folks. Saying Fakebook is saying something about the medium. A polite warning, unheeded obviously.

Ya just canna help some people. And a lotta them are on Fakebook.

I guess using phrases like coordinated inauthentic is a step too far for them. Dunning-Kruger noticed it too..................

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 06:01 AM

"'The same reason why you use 'Murricans.'"

Many moons ago I used to delight in calling the more right-wing yanks on a certain website (that no longer exists) "Merkins." Which, of course, is another name for a pubic wig. Christ on a bike, I enjoyed doing that! (<>evil grin emoticon)

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 07:42 AM

Hahahaaaaaagh Steve! I'd never heard of that word!!!!
Oh I really want one of those! Now what colour would I like? Ginger? Black-and-white stripes (a zebra merkin)? I know! Norwich City FC colours: yellow and green!
(Husband would have a floiying fit!)

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Charmion
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 01:08 PM

Y'know, many on-line platforms block the most popular blasphemies and obscenities, especially the seven words you must never say on television. I'm sure that's an influence on some people.

Back in the day when I was employed at National Defence Headquarters, one of my many odd little tasks was writing or translating the captions for photographs distributed from our Combat Camera unit to the commercial news media. Now, the DND wide-area network has famously twitchy monitoring software, but I never knew how twitchy it was until one day when I was writing captions for photos of the dedication of the First Nations war memorial, a ceremony attended by literally every aboriginal big-wig in the country. I had just finished Googling for the name of the then National Chief of the Assembly of first Nations when my screen blanked and a message popped up to inform me that I had been nabbed in the act of accessing "inappropriate" material.

What set it off? Well, the National Chief of the Assembly of First Nations at that time was one Matthew Coon Come of the Cree nation in northern Quebec.

As for H-E-Double hockey sticks, I believe it is the 21st-century urban Canadian version of Tarnation.

But fuck 'em all if they won't take a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Charmion
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 01:25 PM

Senoufou, you might just remember an actor and musician named Anthony Newley. One of his later film outings was this sex farce, which did considerable damage to several careers.

I saw this film at a second-run cinema that showed double bills (often wildly mismatched) with my mother, who probably sat through it to get to whatever was on the other half of the bill. I was about 16 at the time, and I remember thinking, "Does Mum realize what's going on in this movie?"

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: peteglasgow
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 01:36 PM

billy connolly was the first to make swearing acceptable in scotland and the rest of the uk. probably because he was so funny people forgot to be offended. or maybe because the majority of the national audience didn't quite understand the accent. or maybe just - after all the coy censorship - here was someone just talking our language. of course - father ted took it all to a different feckin level!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 05:03 PM

I do remember Anthony Newley Charmion, (didn't he sing 'What Kind of Fool Am I?' and 'Pop Goes The Weasel'?) but I never saw him playing Merkin! hee hee!
When I lived in Glasgow decades ago, everyone swore like Billy Connolly, and the words formed a sort of rhythm. Never the 'c' word though, just 'f'. I really adored Rab C Nesbitt too. (His comment to a homeless beggar: "See you? Away and fucking worrrk!"

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 05:54 PM

Ok what is a pubic wig/merkin?

I have been, as an avid atheist, trying to ban deity-based swears from my vocabulary since the 1980's. I came home from my first semester at college saying god this and goddamn that and pissed off my atheist dad.

So I decided not to use god (or names/euphemisms therefor), damn (ditto), heaven or hell (ditto again for those). I was left with shit and fuck and, for emphasis, very. It is paralyzing.

I say My word! a lot. And when really mad, thus with no time to edit, god and damn and hell still, after decades, are what pop out.

So my kids could always tell if I was *really* angry.

But my reason is that I don't want to perpetuate the dangerous myth.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 06:06 PM

When I was in elementary school, one could refer to 4377 upside down & backwards.

It is indeed curious that in America "Hell" is the standard profanity. No brat wishing to risk getting his mouth washed out with soap would bother with "God" or "Christ".

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 06:53 PM

Back in my childhood my mother - or indeed any adult, if there were children present - would never say "shit". "Bugger" was her worst, but the occasional "bloody" did slip out. My father didn't swear in front of us. If we heard an adult say "shit" in our presence we knew things would go rapidly downhill, usually to our detriment.

If she was really provoked she would say "oh....sugarmagundy!" I have no idea where that came from, but it was reserved for times such a bowl full of cake mix being dropped on the floor.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 07:37 PM

I'm not one given to excessive profanities online. I never say "fuck" or "fucking" unless I'm quoting someone, though I never judge them wot do use 'em. There's something in my brain that rails against "cunt" in public. It's probably to do with the fact that a cunt is a part of a woman's body and that I therefore don't like the word used pejoratively. I mean, why would I use it thus when I know what a beautiful place it is? In fact, when I'm on my own in my car and exhibiting barely controlled road rage (which means road rage with my windows still wound up and when I've definitely ascertained that the bugger who's annoyed me is either old, a lady, or a bloke who's much littler than me...), I use the word with embarrassing freedom, along with a good few choice others. As in, for the little old bloke who's positioned himself so badly to turn right that I can't pass him on the inside, "Why don't you f*uck off and die upside down in a ditch, you degenerate old c*unt..."

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Apr 20 - 10:44 PM

I once read someone's bemused account of hearing a beautifully-done up young lady stepping off the curb and in exasperation crying out: Oh SHIT! I stepped in some doggy doo doo.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: JennieG
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 12:56 AM

Ha ha, Ebbie......I love it!

Charmion, were you able to get around the swear wall to enter the chief's name?

Saying "Murricans" is the same as those Australians who call themselves "Strayans"......the occasional person (usually someone who plays sport, or a politician) representing Australia who cannot pronounce the name of his/her country correctly has turned me into one of those Olde Phartes who yells at the TV. It isn't "Straya".

As the song says, I'm bloody well Australian through and through.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 01:20 AM

We had a book on how to speak Strine.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 02:18 AM

'Let's Talk Strine' by Afferbeck Lauder. I've got that book Mrrzy, and it's really funny. It took me years until I realised the author's name isn't real (alphabetical order - geddit?)

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: JennieG
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 02:35 AM

Oh yes - I remember when that book was first published. It's very funny.

Here's a quote from my etiquette book bought at a library cull several years ago, a 1982 reprint of a book first published in 1886:

"Prudery.
Avoid an affectation of excessive modesty. Do not use the word "limb" for "leg". If legs are really improper, then let us, on no account, mention them, but having found it necessary to mention them, let us by all means give them their appropriate name."

I think, from spelling and terms used, that this book was first published in the U.S.A. Title is "Australian etiquette, or the rules and usages of the best society in the Australasian Colonies, together with their sports, pastimes, games and amusements. Revised, illustrated and compiled expressly as a household treasure for Australian homes."

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 05:19 AM

Some of the examples from 'Let's Talk Strine':-

dimension (don't mention it)
Emma Chisit? (how much is it?)
Aorta mica Laura genst (they ought to make a law against)
Ark Ellery (art gallery)
bra sharp your Strine!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: meself
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 11:45 AM

'the winner usually says something like "I wrung the heck outta it".

Not to cause offence while plugging their sponsors?'

I doubt it - it's probably just their usual manner of speech. As I tried (why?) to point out above, there are many people in North America who use words like 'heck" and "darn" just because they use them - they are not trying struggling to avoid saying something potentially offensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Apr 20 - 04:27 PM

Oh my word. No, I never got that. Hanging head in shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: BobL
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 02:59 AM

I read somewhere that every human language has swear words of some sort or another, except for Japanese and some Native American tongues.
Can anyone confirm if this is true, and if so, how would those people let off steam?

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: JennieG
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:12 AM

Perhaps they jump up and down until smoke comes out of their ears?

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:20 AM

In Suffolk, when we want to say 'hell', we say 'Norfolk'! (Oops, sorry, Sen.....

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:21 AM

Or skweem and skweem until they're sick.
I thought 'kuso' is a Japanese swear word for 'shit'?

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:26 AM

Or as the Kipper Family had it, Norfolk 'n' good...

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:30 AM

Heh heh Steve and Rusty! Norfolk enchants!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 05:53 AM

I've never quite understood this one:

"Bugger" means to have anal sex, which is considered by many to be an unnatural and deviant act. Yet "bugger" is not usually considered an obscene word. But "fuck" which means to have good old-fashioned, wholesome, procreational penis-in-vagina sex is considered obscene. What the buggering fuck is going on here?

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 07:18 AM

Yebbut "bugger" mean something else before the sexual meaning evolved, whereas "fuck" has more or less always meant what it means now. They're both very ancient words. And, by the way, I'm not one of the "many," as long as both partners cheerily consent to the pastime.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 08:29 AM

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, the sexual meaning of "bugger" was its original meaning and has been around since about 1550. The nonsexual meanings ("bugger up" and "bugger off") have only been around since the 1920s.

bugger (n.)
"sodomite," 1550s, earlier "heretic" (mid-14c.), from Medieval Latin Bulgarus "a Bulgarian" (see Bulgaria), so called from bigoted notions of the sex lives of Eastern Orthodox Christians or of the sect of heretics that was prominent there 11c. Compare Old French bougre "Bulgarian," also "heretic; sodomite."

Softened secondary sense of "fellow, chap," is in British English "low language" [OED] from mid-19c. Meaning "something unpleasant, a nuisance" is from 1936. Related: Buggerly.

bugger (v.)
"to commit buggery with," 1590s, from bugger (n.). Meaning "ruin, spoil" is from 1923. Related: Buggered; buggering. Bugger off "go away" is from 1922, but the connection is obscure.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 10:01 AM

Then there's the embuggerance of Terry Pratchett's early-onset Alzheimer's...

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 10:43 AM

Of course you are right BWL.

Lotsa diffences buteen inglish an Muricans peach.

In the UK you go to hospital.
Here, we go to THE hospital. (Its as though we only have one hospital)

Here, hospitals with no supplies are called Holocospitals :^\

The etiology of the word hospital comes from medicinal Horse Spit. :^/
HOSPITAL. Home Of Sick People Including Treatment And Labour.

The word hospital really originates from the Latin hospes, meaning guest or stranger. It's the root of words such as hospice, hostel, hotel, and hospitality. The word patient comes from patior, which is to suffer. Hence a hospital can be interpreted etymologically as a place where strangers who suffer come to be cared for.

*In Canada they treat hosers.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 10:46 AM

"Embuggerance" is my favourite word for a large-scale construction project on a road that cannot be avoided. For years before we left Ottawa, every journey across town involved avoiding street closures and gigantic construction sites related to the light rail system the city started building at least three generations later than it should have. Likewise, the section of Highway 401 at Kitchener-Waterloo has been under construction since the spring of 2017, by my watch, and isn't finished yet. This matters to us because any journey that takes us east of Kitchener -- to Toronto, say, or Hamilton or even flipping Guelph -- involves the 401 for at least 20 km, and the only place to get on the damnable 401 is right in the middle of the embuggerance.

Then the provincial Ministry of Transport started a drainage project on Highway 7, the primary truck route between Kitchener and Stratford, so the big rigs are backed up three concessions and the locals are blasting through farm country to do big-city errands like going to the doctor and such.

But the current embuggerance, the one that's keeping us all at home and seething, means that we're not sitting in a traffic jam or risking our lives to slide in between two 18-wheelers doing 120 kph in the middle of a construction site == that embuggerance means that all the other embuggerances will last at least a year longer than originally planned.

Bugger.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 11:44 AM

The Australian Outback has been referred to, I have read, as GABA - the Great Australian Bugger-All.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:23 PM

I doubt it - it's probably just their usual manner of speech. re "heck"

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell when they forget themselves and say "hell" then correct &/or apologise, I am under the impression that it is to be PC. While reeling off every spark plug, oil filter, tyre company, and fizzy sport drink (that we can read on their clothing/vehicle anyway).

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 12:39 PM

Here we simply say 'pain in the ass'.

The act of dyslexic architects keeping the 401 under constant construction, destruction and/or detours might be called antidisenablementarienbuggerism.

The 401 is able to defy most GPS systems on any given day.
I call the 401 'the foreign-one'

On the weather channel they have a show called Heavy Rescue which is about the trials, tribulations and terrific accidents on the 401.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 01:44 PM

'pain in the ass' here would mean 'there is something wrong with my donkey'. We say arse (the 'r' isn't pronounced - it sounds like aaahss)

Years ago I'm ashamed to admit, I was very amused by Kevin Bloody Wilson, an Australian whose songs were the absolute epitomy of very very crude (but hilarious!) His song, 'You Can't Say C*** in Canada' is a scream. Anybody know of it? It might be on Youtube.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: meself
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 02:49 PM

I'm afraid that song wouldn't be a scream in Canada ...! Not because it is poking fun at Canada, but because most Canadians would not see the humour in it: their response would be, "Well - of course you can't say - that word - in Canada - we have SOME decency!"

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 03:26 PM

Foreign one... Good one!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 04:05 PM

If only it were foreign!

But no. No such luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: JennieG
Date: 06 Apr 20 - 06:09 PM

Sen - Kevin Bloody Wilson is still performing, I'm sure you can enjoy him again on you tube!

His daughter is also a somedian, the apple didn't fall far frm the tree. She performs ad "Jenny Talia from Australia". You have to say it out loud.....

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 08:48 AM

In Canada, the "r" in "arse" is more clearly pronounced the further east you go, particularly from the Ottawa Valley onward, with the exception of Montreal. On the islands of Cape Breton and Newfoundland, there is no quicker way to mark yourself as a "come from away" than to say "ass"--unless you're speaking of the beast of burden. In the rest of Canada, it's not a case of rhotic accents, it's an import of the U.S. pronunciation. I wonder if, in the case of the U.S. pronunciation, "ass" is a non-rhotic import from overseas service in two world wars; it is close to the Southern received pronunciation of "aahce."

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Apr 20 - 02:41 PM

Hello Andrew! I've visited Ottawa and Montreal, but never said, or heard said, the word 'Arse'. I was only seventeen and wouldn't have dared! One thing I did notice though was that the Canadians I met (lovely people) tended to be very cross if anyone thought their accent was 'American'. And the French speakers from Quebec that I met on a Greyhound bus heading to London Ontario (I think they were tobacco pickers, but it was a long time ago) were furious when I tried to speak French with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: JennieG
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 12:55 AM

Aussies also say "arse". An ass is an animal.

The longer drawn-out sound of "aahhrse" is so much more satisfying that a quickly snapped off "ass".

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: BobL
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 03:01 AM

Couldn't resist this, but it seems appropriate:

There was a young girl from Madras
Who had a most elegant ass
Not, as you might think,
Soft, rounded, and pink,
It was grey, had long ears, and ate grass.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 03:22 AM

Senoufou, were you speaking the French of Stratford-atte-Bowe, rather than Parys or Quebec?

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 04:03 AM

Hee hee Sandra, I flatter myself that my French accent has always been quite good (Parys as you say!) as I used to listen to French radio stations and copied our school 'Assistante'. I'd got an AS grade in my 'A'level before the Canadian trip. But my Ontario cousin told me that the Quebecois had a distinctive accent in French, and maybe they thought I was taking the piss!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Charmion
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 11:22 AM

Sen, if you had that experience at age 17, I think you may have encountered the first stirrings of a social-political movement called the Quiet Revolution that was all about Quebecois folks asserting themselves, their language and their culture against the remnants of colonialism, French and British alike. You also ran into our version of class-conscious reverse snobbery.

In 1969, I got a job in a charity shop sorting donations in a warehouse with a group of working-class Francophone women, none of whom had any schooling after their mid-teens. Their conversation was salty, rapid and conducted at top volume, and I learned a great deal from them -- much of it bad. To them, my Anglophone high-school French was a never-ending source of hilarity mixed with scorn.

Years later, I was in the armed forces and posted in Germany, at a little fighter base on the Rhine River. France was fifteen minutes away by car, and my friends and I frequently popped across the Rhine to shop and dine. My French was comparatively fluent, for an Anglophone with no specialized language training, so I did much of the talking. Every exchange began with the French person snickering and turning to a colleague to say the 1977 Alsatian equivalent of "Get a load a this!" I soon learned that my Ottawa Valley accent sounded to them much as the English of Gomer Pyle sounded to me.

I learned a lot of German, and by the time I left the service and returned to Canada I was fluent enough to understand the news on the radio, read the Badischer Tagblatt, and pay my electric bill at the village Rathaus without help. So it was a no-brainer to join a German choir when the opportunity presented itself. It was deja-vu all over again when my fellow choristers -- almost all immigrants from places like Berlin and Frankfurt -- heard my German, flavoured as it was by the country stylings of Baden-Wurttemberg. Along with learning to sing Bach cantatas, I got a crash course in Hochdeutsch pronunciation, kindly but unsparingly delivered by literally every native German speaker in the choir. I have never been so nagged in my life, even in recruit school.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 11:48 AM

you have lived in interesting times, Charmion

Back in the 80s a friend was an ESL teacher, teaching (Australian) English to Vietnamese Australians who had learnt their English in the French/Vietnamese school system, so naturally they couldn't understand conversational Australian English.

10 years ago I was teaching sewing at a Craft group run by a friend's church with a large Japanese congregation. Naturally these women couldn't cope with conversational English & the group offered ESL classes too.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:28 PM

My very naughty husband has taught me a few swear words of Malinke. When he was on the phone to his family (including his venerable old mum!) he begged me to demonstrate. I was most reluctant but he insisted, so I said, "Eh boh dah! Ee air eh!" (F*** off and the same to you) There were loud shrieks of delight and much laughter from the other end, and I was made to repeat it again and again as different family members came on the phone to enjoy it. I was like a performing circus animal!
When I was teaching,I took no end of pupils 40 at a time (12 yr olds) on week-long visits to France. We stayed in Etretat in Normandy. In the evenings my co-helpers and I would sit in the café and were served by some rather stand-offish people. But I couldn't resist letting loose in fluent French to them and they were amazed. But they expressed their appreciation by bringing me a huge bowl of blooming snails. Yuk!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:57 PM

I ba boda baa!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 01:57 PM

I fa fro bassa!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 02:01 PM

Sen you are a silver tongued devil.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 02:40 PM

Pwaaaagh haaaagh haaaagh Mrrzy!!! "Your mum's fat bum!" "Your dad's huge willy!" Husband is laughing fit to burst!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:00 PM

Sen, two factors may explain why your experience of vulgar usage in Ottawa and Montreal is different from mine: you may have not been with vulgar sorts that I worked with in the Primary Reserve of the Canadian Forces and, in the case of Ottawa, it has a fair few CFAs, as it is a company town that draws from other regions.

Indeed, the Wikipedia article on Ottawa Valley English remarks on the loss of the accent in the city and environs.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:20 PM

Senoufou, c'était pour lui.

I was taught your mom has a fat assHOLE, implying an affinity for anal sex, and Your dad has the dick of a lizard, implying tiny.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 05:35 PM

Ah Andrew, that's probably the explanation. I stayed with my aunt & uncle in London Ontario after flying to Montreal and visiting Toronto & Ottawa. The people I met were just fellow-travellers and random folk.
Have to add that I found the Canadians extremely friendly and kind. Several invited me to stay for a day or two in their holiday cabins on the shores of the Great Lakes, and I can say I've swum in every one!

Mrrzy, I've just put your translation to my husband and he says you're quite right, but he didn't want to tell me all the gory details!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 08:24 PM

Now I laugh.

Senoufou une fois les histoires finies je viens vous rendre visite.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Apr 20 - 09:46 PM

I used to get the biggest kick out of it when my formerly-Baptist mother-in-law said "Gosh all hemlock." It became a family joke. And when we'd laugh, she'd laugh. She was lovely.

And my favorite nun, a very innocent soul who's almost 80 and sometimes seems like a little girl, feels very daring when she says, "Jeesum Cripes!"

Up above, Doug Chadwick calls them "minced oaths," a great term. I think they can be very funny, and I think a lot of them are meant humorously. Some are almost an art form.

I used to say, "For-get you!" My camp song partner Joe McCarthy (same name, same family) worked for Teddy Kennedy. One time, Teddy heard him say it, and Teddy said, "Hey, I like that!"

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: meself
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 12:07 AM

Just for the heck of - whoops! I mean HELL of it - talk of the Ottawa Valley reminded me of the singer-songwriter Mac Beatty: The Banks of the Ottawa

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 05:32 AM

Whale oil beef hooked...

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Apr 20 - 09:32 AM

Senator says something. Other character (reporter?) says, the senator's wrong. Senator's aide says, quietly, The polite way to disagree with the senator is That turns out not to be the case. Reporter's face lights up, Hey, I like that! Anyway, the senator's wrong.
Joe reminded me of that scene from Lucifer's Hammer.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: CupOfTea
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 03:26 PM

I grew up in a house where the use of obscenities was considered evidence of a meagre vocabulary. "Bitch" was a female dog, no euphamizing it, "bastard" was a kind of a file. I appreciated the finesse of a well put together insult, particularly if it went over the head of it's target.

As a schoolkid, learning the forbidden words, and exploring useful euphamisms, things like "H E double hockey sticks" had no lasting appeal, but were a transition to having the gumption to use using the actual words. I don't know exactly how I got to the point of using what I do now, but it definitely gets modified by where I am. I agree with meself's comments above about "gosh" and "darn." I know using "good grief!" comes from exposure to Peanuts, but I don't think "good God!" was ever part of my repertoire. Sometimes using a colorful euphamism is a trick of rhetoric to emphasize an artificiality. In recent years, I see the use of obscenities as a way to emphasize the vehemence of my comments. Exposure to the gleefully obscene approach to insults from Scotland has been a bit of inspiration.

I am much more foulmouthed in person than online/in print. Part of that is choosing words more carefully when taking the time to write. I confess to using "fuck" as an exclaimation of frustration often. "Ohforfucksake" I do not tend to use it in print. No, my IPhone and iPad do that for me, much to my disgust & I must carefully proofread. Fun though it might be, I do NOT go to "fuck festivals."

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 06:39 PM

"He's puttin down hay where the goats can't get it."

he’s stuck up higher than a light-pole.
he has his nose so high in the air he could drown in a rainstorm.
He thinks the sun comes up just to hear him crow.
You're lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut.
He's slicker'n owl sh*t.
She’s meaner than a wet panther.
He's a snake in the grass.
Why, that egg-suckin' dawg!
Worthless as gum on a boot heel!
Even a dog knows when its kicked on purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 07:15 PM

.................
He's slicker'n owl sh*t.
..................


Why did you feel unable to write the full word "shit", Donuel? This seems to sum up the absurdity referred to in the opening post.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 08:30 PM

Australians were once very good at nicknames & insults, but 4-letter words took over.

speaking of well put together insults ...

in yesterday's sort out (a small part of a gi-normous ongoing & often unmoving clean up) I found a scrap of paper where I'd scribbled these classics, dunno when I noted them or where they came from.

drunk? drunk? he was as full as two race trains.

under the bar with the rest of the dead spirits

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 09:24 PM

I prefer to compromise, Doug. To me, it's sh*it.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 10:02 PM

Once in a blue moon Steve makes me laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: meself
Date: 13 Apr 20 - 11:06 PM

In the recently-revived thread on Ned Kelly, there is some discussion about whether the word "adjectival" was ever actually used in Australia as an adjectival euphemism, or whether that was dreamed up by a novelist. Several Australians said they'd never heard of it; one, however, said it was a favourite euphemism of her grandmother. Make of that what you will - you adjectival nouns, you!!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 12:40 AM

Verb you!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 06:15 AM

NZ Graffiti (c 1987)

When the Atom Drums Bop Whale oil beef hooked...

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 07:04 AM

obscurist but OK.

No knee to mist a sing gull Mormon of D agro-sizing hollow cross.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 08:40 AM

Are you guys doing wants pawn term?

And of Tom Lehrer at that. I am musically impressed.

Next will be mots d'heure, gousses, rames, and the inevitable result of child marriage.

Things I learned when my sister emigrated to Tas include I'll have his balls for a bowtie (improving on guts for garters).

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 08:53 AM

"Will the owner of the Ford that is blocking everyone in the driveway please go to Helena Handbasket. Again go to Helena Handbasket"

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 02:14 PM

100

Once, when I was working in my state correctional system, I was told, after writing "buggered" in a report, that the preferred term was "sodomized."

As anyone who know his or her ropes can tell you, the declivity between strands of laid roper is called the "contline." Having checked the history of the term, the original was "cuntline" because of similarity to the resemblance to labia. Presumably, an earlier Dr. Bowdler persuaded user to change it out of deference to the ladies.

My preferred euphemism for Hell is Hades--different word, same meaning.
When sufficiently ired, I sometimes say "sugar, brown sugar" for "shit."

If I am dealing with sensitive types, in place of [your choice of curse word or invective here], I have been known to say "maledictions."

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 02:20 PM

I remember Jeremy on The Session building in automatic substitutes for swear words. One absurdity that ensued was that we could no longer type "Scunthorpe," as it was altered to "Seejithorpe."

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 02:39 PM

I have also said, with feeling, expletive deleted.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:06 PM

By the way, the Bryson book is well worth reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:23 PM

Euphemism or not
The future ain't what it used to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:56 PM

Ebbie, I was just going to post the same story -- you beat me to it.

Some people have really prissy attitudes towards "questionable" language. And even I had to watch my vocabulary when I was in retail positions or substitute teaching.

But otherwise my vocabulary is as extensive as Charmion's and I don't hesitate to use it...most of the time. I rein it in when in conversation a few of my friends who find it offensive, but in general I'm a "classy lady who uses 'fuck' a lot".

Sometimes to keep from offending tender ears I'll use the word in another language. So I'd like to point out that if you hear me utter what sounds like "shit", I'm actually saying it in Norwegian. (Skitt)

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Joe_F
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 06:29 PM

As for me, I am so intolerant of euphemism, I damn my socks.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 06:43 AM

I always thought that a euphemism was a medium-size conical bore tenor-voiced brass instrument. Why, my uncle played the euphemism in Besses Band in the fifties and sixties...

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 10:00 AM

Paul Krassner... of "The Realist" fame used to offer for sale a bumper sticker that said "F*CK CENSORSHIP!"

I liked it, but never ordered one.... but I worked in a store that made t-shirts with decals and lettering... so I made myself one in honor of the demise of "The Realist". Still have it in a drawer somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 12:08 PM

Nice, Joe!

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 06:40 PM

To be infinitely concise,
is wise.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 20 - 08:12 AM

Oh heII, I remember it now Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 20 - 08:32 AM

Ever notice that all hell breaks out and never just some hell?

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Charmion
Date: 16 Apr 20 - 09:18 AM

But what fresh hell is this?

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 07:49 AM

"It's new, improved Fresh Hell(TM) with 50% more sulphur and twice the brimstone!"

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 11:39 AM

Andrew carries on the fresh spirit of Mad Magazine.

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 12:30 PM

WVA guv on reopening up his state- "You're dadgummed if you do and dadgummed if you don't."

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: JennieG
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 08:38 PM

gillymor......"dadgummed" is a wonderful word. I shall keep it in mind.

Many years ago I saw a keyring in someone else's possession: "Phuque housework!"

Subject: RE: BS: Can someone tell me.......(euphemizing hell)
From: meself
Date: 17 Apr 20 - 09:25 PM

Reminds of years back one time, listening to an old Ontario farmer complaining: "These dogbone lawyers - they make all the dogbone laws, and they put these dogbone loop-holes in'm that only they can pull you through!"