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Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?

DigiTrad:
BONEY
KINMONT WILLIE


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Boney Was a Warrior (chantey) (63)
(origins) Origins: Bonnie was a warrior (2) (closed)
Song Challenge: Bushie Was a Warrior (11)


GUEST,Len Kennington 14 Apr 20 - 03:14 PM
GUEST,Starship 14 Apr 20 - 03:20 PM
Monique 14 Apr 20 - 03:20 PM
GUEST,Starship 14 Apr 20 - 03:21 PM
Monique 14 Apr 20 - 04:08 PM
Monique 14 Apr 20 - 07:40 PM
Joe Offer 14 Apr 20 - 08:38 PM
GUEST,Starship 14 Apr 20 - 09:59 PM
cnd 14 Apr 20 - 11:29 PM
Monique 15 Apr 20 - 03:24 AM
Monique 15 Apr 20 - 03:54 AM
GUEST,Starship 15 Apr 20 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,Starship 15 Apr 20 - 07:38 AM
Joe Offer 15 Apr 20 - 09:11 AM
Jeri 15 Apr 20 - 10:30 AM
Monique 15 Apr 20 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,Starship 15 Apr 20 - 11:55 AM
GUEST,Starship 15 Apr 20 - 11:57 AM
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Subject: Kids folk song
From: GUEST,Len Kennington
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:14 PM

Now, here's a tough one - We would have sung this at school 50+ years ago, and all I can come up with is "Jean Francoise, returning from the Army, Jean Francoise, returning from the Ar..rr..rmy..." I'm pretty sure it's a Napoleonic era folk song, but nothing comes up when I Google it. Ring any bells??


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:20 PM

Don't know if this is it. ??

Boney was a Warrior
Boney was a warrior
Away, a-yah!
A warrior and a terrier
Jean Francois!

Boney fought the Russians
Away, a-yah!
The Russians and the Prussians.
Jean Francois!

Moscow was a-blazing
Away, a-yah!
And Boney was a-raging.
Jean Francois!

Boney went to Elba
Away, a-yah!
Boney he came back again.
Jean Francois!

Boney went to Waterloo
Away, a-yah!
There he got his overthrow.
Jean Francois!

Then they took him off again
Away, a-yah!
Aboard the Billy Ruffian.
Jean Francois!

He went to Saint Helena,
Away, a-yah!
There he was a prisoner,
Jean Francois!

Boney broke his heart and died
Away, a-yah!
Away in Saint Helena
Jean Francois!


If so, it is from http://www.napoleonguide.com/music_boney.htm If not, it's still from that link ;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: Monique
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:20 PM

Reminds me of Boney Was a Warrior.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:21 PM

Sorry, Monique. Cross-posted.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: Monique
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:08 PM

Some renditions one, another and Jean François de Nantes


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: Monique
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 07:40 PM

Yikes, this one was the "one" on the post above.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 08:38 PM

Hi, Len -
Here's Paul Clayton singing "Boney Was a Warrior":
Here's one closer to what I'm used to, but not quite as powerful:
OK, this is more like it, the X-Seamen's Institute:
But I like it best when my friend Dick Holdstock is singing:

But even that Dick Holdstock recording isn't as powerful as what I like. I suspect Dick responds to my enjoyment of this song, and "amps" it up a lot when I'm there. We have so much fun with it. Is this the song you're looking for, Len? God, I love this song - but for me, it's all about how much I like Dick Holdstock.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 09:59 PM

Does anyone know why/how the HMS Bellerophon was 'nicknamed' the Billy Ruffian? And was Jean François a real person?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: cnd
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 11:29 PM

-Essentially, the people in charge of naming British ships had a different vocabulary than the people who sailed them, and British soldiers also had something of a penchant for slang. In the same way that Ypres became "wipers" and the town of Ploegsteert (in Belgium) became "plug street," Bellerophon was just too hard to pronounce, and satirically became referred to as Billy Ruffian, which sounded similar enough that everyone knew what they were talking about.

As for your second question, the best answer I could find was from the London periodical Once a Week (1859-1880), ed. E. S. Dallas. In Vol. 2, Issue 31 (Aug. 1, 1868), a section titled "On Shanties" (pp. 92-93) wrote the following:

"John Francivaux" is the nautical rendering of Johnny Crapaud," Johnny Crapaud apparently being a disparaging term for French people.

I should note I found several spellings of the name while searching for this. Most were phonetic, such as Francois, the Francivaux above, or, worst of all, "France-wa." There's some belief that the song originates from the French shanty Jean François de Nantes (though others think the opposite) so perhaps someone more well-versed in French could find that out.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: Monique
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 03:24 AM

I couldn't find much about the origin of the Breton song. It's said to be from the early 19th century. We don't know if it's Jean-François (first name) or Jean François (1st and last names). If the guy really existed or not will remain an unresolved mystery. Jean-François de Nantes is a bawdy song (lyrics here). I put it into Google translator but the result was very poor.
Note that the pronunciation [f?ã.sw?] once was the one for "François" (Francis) and "français" (French) but "français" was pronounced [f?ã.s?] in the 18th C -but probably not everywhere in France- while "François" was pronounced [f?ã.swa] at the end of the 18th C but not everywhere either. So it could be either John-Francis or John French / John the Frenchman.
Anyway, I'd suggest a look at the 1st related thread at the top of this very page.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: Monique
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 03:54 AM

Oh, I see that the IPA characters don't show properly. So... it should sound something like 1 "franswè", 2 "fransè" 3 "franswah" with "è" = "e" in "bed"..


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 06:55 AM

Thank you both very much. For some reason I got the idea in my head that JF was a reference to Champollion, but I couldn't make the historical context fit if you know what I mean.

My grandfather was at Ypres (second battle), and indeed he called it wipers on the rare occasions I ever heard him mention it. He took a little gas which caused him difficulties later in life.

If history had been as interesting as you two make it I probably would have paid more attention in my younger years. Thanks again.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 07:38 AM

Joe, numbers two and four for me. Paul's is too 'clean' and the speedy entry of the lead singer on number three seems disruptive, although that's probably caused by the recording mix.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 09:11 AM

You should meet Dick Holdstock, Starship. You'd love him.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 10:30 AM

3 and 4.
I find instrumentation on sea shanties just a little offensive. It's as if the singers are afraid of being naked. Civilized and pretty? No. Bold and devil-may-care? Yes
And I like the overlap of 3.

I think maybe I've seen Dick Holdstock somewhere along g the line. Fox Hollow, Old Songs, dunno.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: Monique
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 11:36 AM

Now here are Jean-François de Nantes lyrics with a literal translation and you can check that even if the tune is somewhat alike the one of "Boney Was a Warrior", the topic is quite different.

1. C'est Jean-François de Nantes          It's Jean-François of Nantes
Oué! oué! oué!          Yeah, yeah, yeah
Gabier de la Fringante          Topman of La Fringante [Spry, Smart]
Oh! mes boués!          Oh, my boys!
Jean-François!          Jean-François!

2. Débarque en fin d' campagne          Disembarks at the end of a campaign
Fier comm' un roi d'Espagne          Proud like a king of Spain

3. En vrac dedans sa bourse          In a jumble, in his purse
Il a vingt mois de course          Are 20 months [earning] of privateering

4. Une montre une chaîne,          A watch, a chain
Valant une baleine!          Worth a whale!

5. Branl'-bas chez son hôtesse,          Bustle at his hostess'
Bitte* et bosse et largesse          Bollard, mooring rope and largesse

6. La plus belle servante,          The prettiest servant
L'emmèn' dans sa soupente          Takes him in her attic

7. Et Jean-François qui bande,          And Jean-François gets hard
Les couilles frémissantes          His balls quivering

8. Met la fille en carène          Puts the girl in hull
Lui plant' un mât d' misaine          Sticks her a foremast

9. Il vid' une bouteille          He empties a bottle
Il reband' à merveille          Gets wonderfully hard again

10. La grand' Ursule il baise,          He fucks the big Ursule
Puis il encul' Thérèse          Then he buggers Thérèse

11. Son foutre qui déferle          His cum that unfurls/surges
Étouffe les femelles          Suffocates/smothers the women/bitches

12. Son hôtesse se fâche,          His hostess gets angry
Mais il l'envergu' en vache          But he "in-yards" her cow-like/harshly(?)

13. Montr' et chaîne s'envole,          Watch and chain disappear
Mais il prend la vérole          But he catches the pox

14. À l'hôpital de Nantes,          In Nantes' hospital
Jean-François se lamente          Jean-François laments

15. Et les draps de sa couche,          And the sheets of his bed
Déchire avec sa bouche          He tears with his mouth

16. Son vît fendu en quatre!          His dick, split in four
Pleure dans un emplâtre          Weeps in a bandage

17. On lui ouvr', on lui fouille,          They open up, they search
La plus bell' de ses couilles          His finest ball

18. Il ferait de la peine,          He would make
Mêm' à son capitaine          Even his captain feel sorry

19. Pauvr' Jean-François de Nantes!          Poor Jean-François of Nantes!
Plus jamais ne rebande          Never gets hard again


*Note that there might be a pun on verse 5, line 2, "bitte" is "bollard" but also "cock" -no, not the rooster, the other one!


Alternate verses:
7. De conserve avec elle,          In concert with her
Navigue mer belle          He sails calm sea-like

8. En vidant la bouteille,          Emptying bottles
Tout son or appareille          All his gold casts off


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 11:55 AM

Here's an interview with Dick Holdstock. He sounds like a character who'd be a hoot to have a conversation with. His exuberance shines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pex-kG46Ves


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jean Francoise?
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 11:57 AM

LOL. Monique, you are right. It isn't the same song.


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