BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:04 AM

I suppose that they would pay the piper calls the tune, perhaps this is the reason that the Equalities Watchdog Commission has taken the decision not be investigate the Islamophobia that is rampant within the Conservative Party.
The extreme left would say that (as Mandy Rice-Davies was wont to say) to deflect attention away from the fact that it is the Labour party being investigated for anti semitism by the Equality and Human Rights Commission
In May 2019, the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) announced an inquiry into whether Labour had "unlawfully discriminated against, harassed or victimised people because they are Jewish".
They have yet to release their findings.
No smoke without fire!
Obviously trying to accuse the Tories of similar crimes is but a groundless slur as no investigation is pending

Was not chucklebutty elevated to the Lords for producing a whitewash
when an internal investigation concluded?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:09 AM

It is important to recognize, for example, that society is not partitioned, or easily partitionable, by age, in the workplace or in the home. A lot of homes, for example, are mixed across several generations.

Obviously essential workers have learnt to deal with the problem otherwise the supermarkets would have emptied weeks ago and you and many others would be starving.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:16 AM

did we ever get an inquiry into the Windrush incidents and the hostile environment for british citizens? when discrimination and heartless bigotry was official government policy

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:45 AM

Obviously essential workers have learnt to deal with the problem

Have they? I haven't seen any figures that support that. We know, for example, that Uber drivers are at significantly higher risk of infection than the general population. Have we any figures of whether their households are at heightened risk compared to the general population? Given that coming in contact with an infected person is how you get it, I would assume they are, but haven't seen any analysis.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:47 AM

"They have yet to release their findings."
Probably because they were found to be groundless
You haven't aomment on the serial racism of the party you fanatically defend - all based on documented fact aand none inquired into
Why on earth should you when absolutism is far safer
Claims of 'antisemitism' against a party largely created by Jews fleeing Eropen pogroms, started within four weeks of Corbyn decalring his support for the Palestinian People against Israeli state terrorism - probably a coincidence, of course !!!
Not a shred of evidence that Antisemitism is a serious problem has emerged since
NEVER ACTED ON
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 05:32 AM

I've just thought of a new clause to the definition to add to the growing list being invented by Iareali terrorism supporters
"If it's something you can accuse the Labour Party of without proof - it's antisemitic
This does not apply to right-wing people or parties
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 20 - 05:54 AM

"Obviously trying to accuse the Tories of similar crimes is but a groundless slur as no investigation is pending"

Non seq and untrue in any case. The Tories are carrying out an internal investigation into Islamophobia in their ranks, and the Equality and Human Rights Commission is monitoring it closely and they will intervene if they are not satisfied that the investigation is being properly conducted. Comment is free but facts are sacred.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 06:19 AM

The equalities watchdog has dropped plans to launch an inquiry into Tory Islamophobia.

Obviously not enough smoke to justify an enquiry unlike the ongoing investigation into Labour's alleged antisemitism.
and it is best we do not look too closely at starmers record of turning a blind eye to the naughtiness of a certain demographic when he was DPP

From the Times: Keir Starmer, QC, the Director of Public Prosecutions, said that men who groomed teenagers for sex had escaped justice for decades because police, prosecutors and the courts failed to understand the nature of the abuse.
Mr Starmer has ordered a comprehensive restructuring of the Crown Prosecution Service’s response to sex grooming, designed to raise the number of convictions.
An Inconvenient truth as al gore would say!
The reforms come after an in-depth review of the CPS’s initial reluctance to charge men involved in a notorious sex-grooming network in Rochdale, Greater Manchester.
They will apply to the handling of all current and historic cases of sexual exploitation involving girls and boys,

ALL on Labour's watch.
A recent government report on the same subject has been kept from the public because the findings are so explosive. But an online petition will force the government to address the issue in Parliament, despite their constant prevarication and failure to adhere to their own guidelines.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gangs-review-sajid-javid-release-petition-home-office-a9483796.html
An inconvenient truth as al gore would say

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:05 AM

Sorry, but you're not getting away with that. We are not stupid. A quote from the Mail, with some horse' s mouth stuff:

The EHRC said it would allow the internal [Tory Party] probe to take its course, but reserved legal powers to intervene if it was unsatisfied with the conduct of the inquiry.   

'We have given very careful consideration to complaints raised about discrimination and Islamophobia in the Conservative Party,' a spokesman said.

'We have concluded, in the light of the decision by the party to institute an independent investigation, that it would not be proportionate to initiate our own investigation at this stage.

'If we are not satisfied with progress or how the investigation is conducted we will review our decision and do not rule out the use of our legal powers.'

You said that there was no investigation pending. Either you were trying to lie to us or you were speaking out of ignorance. Care to tell us us which, or are you going to carry on sidestepping?

And if you look back over the last few months you will find plenty of allegations about Tory Islamophobia. You can rattle on all you like about Labour antisemitism, which IS being independently investigated. Perhaps you'd care to await its outcome (rather than shooting off about smoke and fire, etc.), which, in case you haven't noticed, is the way we do things in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:16 AM

It will be a total farce if it is not allowed
The Accusations were made several years ago ant the fact that it has been totally ignored since then while rabbid calls for Corbyn to be burned alive on no evidence whatsoever have never stopped
The Muslim Council has called for enquires several times - the last time was i March
The fact that those calls have been ignored is Islamophobic in itself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:24 AM

Divert and distract. Bozzer and his band of murky men are making a pigs ear of managing the health crisis. Look! Labour antisemitism! The Tories are being investigated for Islamophobia. Look! Labour antisemitism!

I bet some people who an they had not started crying wolf so long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:29 AM

I bet some people wished they had not etc.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 07:34 AM

It's a friggin' farce and always has been
Israel, America and Russia now have a fee run to deciding who Britain's politicians should be and the ERHC needs to be very careful as we have a queue of nutters lined up to demand that setting up inquiries into Corrupt Brexiteers and thuggish Nazis who beat up members of the public should be punishable by having their fingernails pulled out
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:02 AM

Sorry, but you're not getting away with that. We are not stupid
NO COMMENT!

Divert and distract. Bozzer and his band of murky men are making a pigs ear of managing the health crisis. Look! Labour antisemitism! The Tories are being investigated for Islamophobia. Look! Labour antisemitism!

apportion blame where blame is due I always say
For your delectation and delight the guilty parties trying a bit of whataboutism. I suggest you take issue with them!

From: Raggytash - PM
Date: 12 May 20 - 04:01 PM
I suppose that they would pay the piper calls the tune, perhaps this is the reason that the Equalities Watchdog Commission has taken the decision not be investigate the Islamophobia that is rampant within the Conservative Party.

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 13 May 20 - 03:23 AM

" Islamophobia that is rampant within the Conservative Party.

Now, where were we??

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:15 AM

"Now, where were we??"
You evading every single point made apparently
Try this bit of evasion by serial liar Johnson who has just 'explained' the 10,000 unexplained deaths in British care homes by describing them as "tragic'
"Oh to be in England" - definitely not
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:35 AM

Incidentally - why is your mangling of what you claim ERHC decide on more valid than your claim that the DPP were biased when they charged Robinson or the Poice's reason for Arresting the same feller for assault ?
All of a sudden you've given yourself the right to claim that they are correct not to pursue en enquiry while on the other hand to demand they be punished for wasting public money when they enquire into an obviously bent-as-a- corkscrew
Can you give us the number of your hot-line to the upper-echelons - might come in handy
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:42 AM

Try this bit of evasion by serial liar Johnson who has just 'explained' the 10,000 unexplained deaths in British care homes by describing them as "tragic'
"Oh to be in England" - definitely not

Funy you should mention that:

https://principia-scientific.org/scotlands-real-corona-virus-crisis/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A

    [Imperial College epidemiologist Neil] Ferguson was behind the disputed research that sparked the mass culling of eleven million sheep and cattle during the 2001 outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. He also predicted that up to 150,000 people could die. There were fewer than 200 deaths. . . .

    In 2002, Ferguson predicted that up to 50,000 people would likely die from exposure to BSE (mad cow disease) in beef. In the U.K., there were only 177 deaths from BSE.

    In 2005, Ferguson predicted that up to 150 million people could be killed from bird flu. In the end, only 282 people died worldwide from the disease between 2003 and 2009.

    In 2009, a government estimate, based on Ferguson’s advice, said a “reasonable worst-case scenario” was that the swine flu would lead to 65,000 British deaths. In the end, swine flu killed 457 people in the U.K.

    Last March, Ferguson admitted that his Imperial College model of the COVID-19 disease was based on undocumented, 13-year-old computer code that was intended to be used for a feared influenza pandemic, rather than a coronavirus. Ferguson declined to release his original code so other scientists could check his results. He only released a heavily revised set of code last week, after a six-week delay.

    So the real scandal is: Why did anyone ever listen to this guy?


https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/05/08/so-the-real-scandal-is-why-did-anyone-ever-listen-to-this-guy/

Not too clever in your backyard either, but I have already told you this some days ago,or perhaps it was deleted.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/12/irish-government-under-fire-over-covid-19-deaths-in-care-homes
and


https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/08/the-deadly-impact-of-covid-19-on-europe-s-care-home

Try putting your wild accusations in the wider context!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 13 May 20 - 08:45 AM

Can you give us the number of your hot-line to the upper-echelons - might come in handy
Sorry. the lower orders cannot be trusted with such data

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 May 20 - 09:13 AM

"Sorry. the lower orders cannot be trusted with such data"
Only the mental midgets apparently - makes sense !
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 20 - 10:52 AM

A nice little row is developing about whether Boris misled the House when Keir Starmer asked about a document in place until March 12th. Here is the Hansard entry:


Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)
I join the Prime Minister in thanking our nurses and all those on the frontline, and send my condolences to all the families of those who have died of coronavirus, including Belly Mujinga, as the Prime Minister referenced—a ticket officer who we learnt this week died from covid-19 in awful circumstances.

In his speech on Sunday, the Prime Minister said that we need to rapidly reverse the awful epidemic in our care homes, but earlier this year, and until 12 March, the Government’s own official advice was—and I am quoting from it:

“It remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home…will become infected.”

Yesterday’s Office for National Statistics figures showed that at least 40% of all deaths from covid-19 were in care homes. Does the Prime Minister accept that the Government were too slow to protect people in care homes?

The Prime Minister
No, Mr Speaker, and it was not true that the advice said that.

======

Keir Starmer then sent a letter asking for the statement to be corrected, quoting the exact document of concern.

The Downing Street lobby briefing has now rejected that letter because in his question Starmer talked about it remaining the case that people in care were unlikely to be infected (the document does not use the word “remains” at that point) and the source said the full quote made it clear that this assurance covered a period where there was no community transmission. Starmer did not include the word “therefore”, the source said.

=====

People will of course form their own conclusions, but it doesn't seem much of a defence that he left out the word 'therefore'. The section quoted in the letter is:

This guidance is intended for the current position in the UK where there is currently no transmission of Covid-19 in the community. It is therefore very unlikely that anyone receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected.

So we really need to decide what 'current' means. If it meant the instant the document was issued, then it becomes vacuous: the phrases cease to have any significance as soon as there is any transmission in the community at all, and of course there was already some at the time it was published, albeit at a low level. A more sensible interpretation is that it would continue to apply until the government withdrew it, because you could make the case it was only at that point the government considered the community transmission to be at the level it was significant.

But the government spokesman appears to be following a third path: some person decides when the transmission rate in the community is high enough, and at that point the clause not longer applies. With no warning or statement at all from anyone, suddenly sections of the advice no longer apply but you as a reader have no way of telling whether it does or not.

I hardly think the spokesman defence is going to stand the test of time.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 11:06 AM

Thank you DMcG. Another prime example of the truth according to Johnson. Of course we all now what the response will be. Look! Labour antisemitism! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 13 May 20 - 11:28 AM

lower orders eh? sorry, your grace - i never realised you had come among us. we are honoured.....you are so great, so clever, so wise.....and i never realised. we are not worthy....but thank you, thank you.....!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 20 - 12:10 PM

The row continues!

It turns out that, when No 10 claimed Sir Keir Starmer of selectively quoting from government guidance on care homes, it was highlighting the wrong quote. The section that the quote was taken from was

During normal day-to-day activities facemasks do not provide protection from respiratory viruses, such as COVID-19 and do not need to be worn by staff in any of these settings. Facemasks are only recommended to be worn by infected individuals when advised by a healthcare worker, to reduce the risk of transmitting the infection to other people. It remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected.


And Keir Starmer's quotation was exact.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 May 20 - 12:38 PM

So.. it's started as predicted...

Teachers & Heads Union's legitimate concerns about safety in the workplace are being dismissed by Govt
as "scaremongering"...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52650259

"But in the House of Commons, Education Secretary Gavin Williamson warned against "scaremongering" over safety.

He said "the disadvantaged will suffer the most" with closed schools.

"Sometimes scaremongering, making people fear, is really unfair
and not a welcome pressure to be placed on families, children and teachers alike," he told MPs,
in questions over the announcements on opening schools."


Let's see how the right wing media and internet tory fanboys
follow up attack with this line of union bashing...

..and ffs.. since when have the tories ever had any genuine consideration for "the disadvantaged"..

..apart from only when it suits their cynical propagandising...


[btw.. BBC red button earlier attributed similar comments to Grant Shapps, but this is no longer being reported..???]

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:03 PM

Very good article on Reuters Forgotten victims section. Couple of snippets -

It's a bit long but well worth the effort. A damning indictment of the mismanagement of the crisis in care homes done in a poignant and personal way.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:05 PM

Sorry. Didn't paste the snippets in. Didn't really need them anyway

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:42 PM

I wonder if the government will take heed of the upturn in cases of Corona Virus that have been reported in Germany since they took the step to lessen the lockdown.

Virus-New Cases

Given that the UK already has a atrocious track record (look at the figures) with dealing with this virus it is to be hoped they take on board the very serious dangers of lifting restrictions.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:52 PM

It would seem that Johnson is going to have his work cut out when dealing with the new leader of the Labour Party. The following article is very enlightening.

Starmer

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Shug Hanlan
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:52 PM

Posted this on another thread but it might make more sense here.

ON YOUR BIKE
(AGAIN)

The Norman Tebbit special
was still in the Bike Shed,
so I went back to work in England
just like Boris said.

I pedalled fast and furious
down roads all marked South,
maintaining social distancing
hardly opening my mouth.

I reached the Sawmill in Manchester
but never got past the door.
They said that I'd been sacked
over forty years before.

My mood darkened further,
I found my tyres were flat.
The bosses shouted, "Stay Alert,
you stupid Scottish twat."

SHUG HANLAN

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:37 AM

I almost weakened enough to feel sorry for Johnson when he was being surgically dissected by Sir Keir Starmer at PMQs yesterday. John Crace, however, is clearly made of sterner stuff than soft, pink, fluffy me, and absolutely nails it in his Guardian piece today...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 20 - 02:26 AM

Is there a tune Shug ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 20 - 04:27 AM

Excellent piece, BWM. There is a bit at the end that highlights what I have been saying for months. Boris is not to be trusted.

in a time of crisis you rather hope the country would have a leader in whom you could believe. Someone you could trust to make at least some of the right decisions. But we have Boris. Incompetent, unprepared, selfish, lazy, amoral, and just not that bright

American friends. Feel free to substitute Boris with Donald. It still works.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 20 - 04:52 AM

Sadly, Dave, the Working-Class-Tory-Neophytes aren’t very good at understanding anything more deep and meaningful the than three-word slogan, so they’ll continue supporting the court jester.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 05:24 AM

And while the virus is under way, Brexit arrangements continue. From the Guardian:


In a letter to the executive office in Stormont the government confirmed there would be border control posts in three ports, Belfast, Warrenpoint and Larne.

Declan Kearney, one of the two junior ministers in the executive office, the regional equivalent of the Cabinet Office in London, confirmed the details at a select committee session in Belfast on Wednesday.

He told members of the local assembly that officials had briefed the executive on Monday.

“The sum total of that, and without breaching executive confidentiality … [is that the] British government has confirmed it will urgently put in place detailed plans with the executive, which does include the physical posts at ports of entry,” said Kearney.


Yet another thing Boris flatly denied would happen, even though he has agreed it with the EU. As if the relationships between Whitehall and Northern Ireland were not strained enough.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 May 20 - 06:05 AM

Let us count the ways...

More or Less broadcast yesterday on BBC Radio 4

R is one of the most important numbers of the pandemic. But how is it estimated? And is Vitamin D an under-appreciated weapon in the fight against Covid-19?

More or Less

++

I did ask earlier n this thread if any UK members had seen any facemasks for sale in any shops? I have not noticed any down here.

Our W H Smith has been closed since the lockdown and no signs of reopening yet. They have had a note on the door saying that the next two nearest branches in Folkestone and Canterbury are open.

++

Has anyone seen any more recent research on contracting the virus via touch?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:02 AM

Thanks, Rain Dog. Interesting podcast.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:26 AM

Just read in the local paper that an Anti Lockdown Protest is planned for Folkestone at the weekend. The so called organisers the "UK Freedom Movement" seem to be planning protests at various locations around the Uk.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:28 AM

It is very easy to make a facemask from a sock - no need for sowing!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:35 AM

Just read in the local paper that an Anti Lockdown Protest is planned for Folkestone at the weekend. The so called organisers the "UK Freedom Movement" seem to be planning protests at various locations around the Uk.

Sounds the same bunch that are behind that Southampton poster I shared.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:39 AM

I did find myself amused at my own stupidity (not rare, I am afraid) by a statement at the bottom of that poster "Bring transparents and music". It seemed far too LGBT friendly for the rest of the poster to be talking about bringing trans parents.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:42 AM

I onlly know that someone has pinched WILLIE CLANCY'S FACE-MASK
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:43 AM

Thanks for that link Bonzo. I am not using a mask at the moment but was just planning ahead for as and when public transport gets a bit easier.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 20 - 08:53 AM

R is for...

"I R OK, F U !!!"



That's a free Tee Shirt slogan for any selfish young fukwits
who believe they are immune,
and don't give a shit if they spread death everywhere
Boris has granted them liberty to travel and mingle...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 20 - 10:03 AM

Same old same old..

Malicious tory liars are at it again...


Minister Nadine Dorries accused of spreading 'fake news' about Labour leader


"Ms Dorries shared a video suggesting Sir Keir
had been reluctant to prosecute grooming gangs when he was director of public prosecutions."

hmmm.. that looks familiar, like something 'hinted at' here yesterday...???

Just goes to show how the right 'organize' the spreading lies on the internet...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 May 20 - 12:50 PM

Kier Starmer is a good egg. I enjoyed his disection of Johnson during yesterday's PMQ!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:55 PM

"A spokesman for Movianto[a private company tasked with managing PPE] said the military deployment was “not because of any shortcomings in Movianto’s performance”, insisting the company had “executed the agreed plan” to mobilise the stockpile without any delay and in accordance with its contractual obligations."

Ah, the outsourcer's #1 excuse. "We did exactly what you asked us to do. If you didn't ask us to do what was needed, that's not our problem."

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 May 20 - 03:23 PM

I am normally one of the first to castigate the present government for their inaction over Corona virus and frankly their appalling record but on this occasion all the blame surely cannot be laid at their door.

I read today that almost 150,000 people have been infected in the last two weeks alone.

This is despite government measures to limit social interaction. The population at large must bear some of the responsibility for this by ignoring the guidelines.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 20 - 03:27 PM

Since so many of them voted tory, they're no longer considered "stupid"...

.. apparently...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 20 - 04:39 PM

I agree that those not keeping to the guidelines should bear some responsibility but we need to allow for the confusion that the government has caused in its mixed messages and leaks to the press over the last couple of weeks. What people need are easily understood rules and strong leadership. Not bluster, waffle and populist catch phrases.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 20 - 05:10 PM

....and I’m with DtG.