BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 May 20 - 10:12 AM

Excellent meat box delivered by Morrison's this afternoon!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 16 May 20 - 09:59 AM

Even with such an Enquiry, its "terms of reference" will be carefully decided by The Powers That Be. That into the tower-block fire in London (Grenfell Tower), as far as I remember, did not consider the matter of appropriate exterior cladding. Consistently, too, there's a long, long delay before "findings are published". Remember Flood, Moriarty and Mahon, and the Legal Teams milking the State.
The American Economist JK Galbraith noted, about sixty years ago, that the advantages of continuing specialisation and delegation, numerous sub-groups &c., namely, the ability for societies to achieve ever higher Standards of Living and quality of medical knowledge & expertise, were accompanied by the fact that no-one could ever be held fully accountable for anything....

Oh, and we'll also hear how "lessons will have to be learnt" so that "this can never happen again". And keep cheering for "our NHS". Because "we're all in this together".
But some animals are more together than others.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 May 20 - 09:23 AM

People are beginning to talk about the Care Homes issue in terms of a future enquiry - it seems to have reached horrific proportions in the UK - from how the patents have been treated to the lack of protective equipment for the residents and staff
It will be interesting to see if Cummings is one of the accused because of his 'survival of the fittest' policies
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 16 May 20 - 09:15 AM

Ah, back to Teachers, those "essential workers" with whom this particular thread began back in April. My own initial response to punkfolkrocker seems to have pulled off the remarkable feat of being both inaccurate but absolutely correct. At least I haven't so internalised current political rhetoric that I can't see the difference between that characterisation and "wrong but absolutely justified".
With regard to what is being consistently referred to as "the catastrophe in our Care Homes", I wonder how many people, during the early mentions of this Coronavirus Pandemic, and of those most vulnerable, thought like me that there was very likely to be a very great number of deaths among elderly people in these environments. Some recognised - with cynicism, "black humour"/"gallows humour", resigned bitterness or bitter resignation - that, well, at least that will solve some of those oft-rehearsed problems caused by "the demographic time-bomb", the fact that "due to improvements in medical science, more of our old folk are living longer" ( a fact always described as "welcome", though the corollary that a growing proportion of the population was no longer composed of "net Producers" of resources but of "net Consumers" was never far behind). Now, I can't believe that I, or any of those whom I heard speaking of "aye, getting rid of the old folk"/"wiping out anyone not needed by the Economy"/"a Cull of the Elderly"(that from a wireless station), could be described as particularly unfeeling, inhuman, or given to outlandish and disturbing speculation. That being granted, does anyone seriously believe that those who decided what official policy was to be, and how it would be presented, complete with slogans and "optics"/"visuals", did not include every facet of NHS facilities, staff, stores, etc. in their thinking, their planning, their "modelling", their accursed "Wargaming the various Scenarios"? Those who understood immediately the implications of "Herd Immunity" won't have been surprised at what has been allowed happen, though the discharge policy adversely criticised by the Cardiologist quoted above was an unexpected "accelerant". Wasn't it Talleyrand who said that a Diplomat should recognise what is inevitable, and ensure that it happens? As Politicians, I'll grant they're as wicked, but no hauf sae clever.
Remember thon young lassie working as some kinda Advisor who had to apologise for writing in a Memo that "9-11" (i.e. Twin Towers) was "a good day to bury bad news"? Why apologise for telling the Truth? Because it's unpalatable? Or - in other circumstances - because it would reveal unequivocally the contempt with which we, the Populace, the Polloi, the Common People (or Folk), the "Ordinary Human Beings", the "many-headed Multitude", the Mob, aye, even the "Cannon Fodder", "essential workers" and all, are regarded by The Great and Good.
Good Luck.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 20 - 07:04 AM

"Of course we know what the answer is. Look! Labour antisemitism!"

We'll be getting a lot less of that particular brand of inanity I suspect, at least for a while...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 20 - 06:59 AM

Teachers are the time-honoured Tory political football. In the good old Thatcher days there was routinely an annual hyped-up educational "scandal" in the tabloids a few weeks before the next teachers' pay round was to be settled. The government have drawn battle lines now. There was that disgraceful Mail front page. There was the boss of an academy consortium shooting his mouth off about how "kids" are being "damaged" and telling us that teacher's protests are "rather middle class." He knows as much about education as I know about the bowel habits of unicorns. We had the incredibly stupid Gavin Williamson (God knows how else to describe him) telling teaching unions to "do their duty." Today we have the Tory-appointed Children's Commissioner being wheeled out and propped up to brainlessly push the June 1 "policy." We hear about how children "don't catch it a lot," "only get a mild dose," "don't spread it much," all with frighteningly-inadequate evidence. We know that little "kids" won't social-distance. We can afford to sacrifice a few teachers after all. You can always get a few more of them from somewhere. Dunno about the cleaners and the canteen staff...

What a bloody shambles. Stand your ground, teachers. Schools are not there to babysit so that parents can go to work, which is blatantly what this policy is all about. Go back when it's at least a lot safer than now. That will not be before September.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 May 20 - 06:34 AM

An extract from a horrifying piece from The Telegraph, written by their Business Editor, Ambrose Ellis Pritchard...

A Covid cardiologist at a top London hospital – friendly to Boris – has been so incensed by the daily charade of bogus omniscience that he vented his spleen in an email to me on Sunday night. It is a poignant indictment, so I pass along a few snippets.

Basically, every mistake that could have been made, was made. He likened the care home policy to the Siege of Caffa in 1346, that grim chapter of the Black Death when a Mongol army catapulted plague-ridden bodies over the walls.

“Our policy was to let the virus rip and then ‘cocoon the elderly’,” he wrote. “You don’t know whether to laugh or cry when you contrast that with what we actually did. We discharged known, suspected, and unknown cases into care homes which were unprepared, with no formal warning that the patients were infected, no testing available, and no PPE to prevent transmission. We actively seeded this into the very population that was most vulnerable.

“We let these people die without palliation. The official policy was not to visit care homes – and they didn’t (and still don’t). So, after infecting them with a disease that causes an unpleasant ending, we denied our elders access to a doctor – denied GP visits – and denied admission to hospital. Simple things like fluids, withheld. Effective palliation like syringe drivers, withheld.”

The public has yet to realise that the great quest for ventilators was worse than a red herring. The overuse of ventilators was itself killing people at a terrifying ratio and behind that lies another institutional failure.

“When the inquiry comes, it will show that many people died for lack of oxygen supply in hospitals, and this led to early intubation,” writes the doctor. “Boris survived because they gave him oxygen. High flow oxygen wasn’t available as a treatment option for all patients.”

I recently suggested that the first few weeks of government inaction - the so-called ‘herd-immunity’, ‘take it on the chin’ period - could be evidence of a deliberate ‘cull’ of the elderly in order to relieve pressure on care-homes and the state pension, for which I was criticised by the Tory-Fanboi types here. Reading the article further convinces me that my suspicions may Indeed have some substance.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 16 May 20 - 06:23 AM

Let our teachers be heroes, eh?

All together now: "Soldiers who want to be heroes/Number practically zero.."

I was reminded of this, and no doubt the Daily Mail will be as enthusiastic as they were in WW1:

In August 1914, Admiral Charles Penrose Fitzgerald founded the Order of the White Feather. He deputized thirty women in Folkestone to give out white feathers to any men not in uniform. The concept was based on the old cock-fighting lore that a cockerel with a white feather in its tail is a coward.
...

The Daily Mail enthusiastically reported the activities of the Order of the White Feather, hoping the gesture "would shame every young slacker" into enlisting. "The generally female white feather distributors achieved much notoriety by frequently misjudging their targets, stories of men on leave, wounded, or in reserved occupations being handed down these odious symbols abound."

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 May 20 - 06:07 AM

As usual, the Daily Mail adds it’s own twisted spin to the story.

‘Militant Unions’? WTF?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 20 - 05:47 AM

In Denmark it has been proved that opening schools has upped the infection rate yet our Secretary of State for education has blasted teaching unions for being concerned over the safety of their members. Showing Tory care policies up for what they are. Of course we know what the answer is. Look! Labour antisemitism!

I hope all those who still support the fly by night Tory lying populist with his pithy slogans and 'witty' remarks are ashamed of themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 May 20 - 03:52 AM

"There is a joke about European corona virus whistle-blower scientists"
For those who might have missed it on the joke thread
A corona virus nurse passing one of the beds hears a weak voice call out "Are my testicles black?"
She goes over and says, "Well it's not really my job, but if it makes you feel any better I'll take a look"
She polls back the sheets, examines him carefully, lift's them up and looks underneath and says, "No they're fine"
He grins at her and says, "That was lovely, but I think you misheard me - I asked, "are my test results back"?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 20 - 02:31 PM

LOL! I was mostly surprised that YKW hasn’t been jumping around like a frog in a blender, giving us the benefit of his vast store of knowledge on...everything (apparently)!

Oh well, be thankful for small mercies, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 20 - 12:17 PM

Sorry, BWM. I didn't see that. You know what they say. Great minds think alike. Not sure what happened in my case :-D

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 May 20 - 11:45 AM

Lying is, I think, what Donuel was trying to say!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 20 - 11:26 AM

There is a joke about European corona virus whistle-blower scientists
being found dead,
after committing suicide with 2 gunshots to the back of their heads..


Though it's an old joke, that could just as easily be more internationally inclusive..

Chinese, Russian, USA, etc, whistle blowers..
[where it is more likely to actually happen..]...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 15 May 20 - 11:08 AM

Scientists and epidemiologists are being fired by Trump over here but they are still testifying. I hope they do not get shredded too.

The old saying is that you can not sue city hall.
Yes and no. Legal minds agree that manslaughter and murder is a bridge too far.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 May 20 - 10:33 AM

Is there sufficient evidence for any Govt ministers to be tried for criminal negligence
and manslaughter...??/

Is that evidence being buried and shredded...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 15 May 20 - 08:46 AM

The usual strategy of lieing to citizens was the worst thing to do in a pandemic and that is why the US and UK will suffer from four to ten times more from the virus compared to other countries.

Pandemic information has even been classified secret by Trump.

This was controllable epidemic...until politicians took comtrol.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 15 May 20 - 05:56 AM

Interesting, but I did get a bit cross with the scientist saying the most effective thing in bringing R down had been the lockdown. Obviously! That is as near a tautology as you get in science.   Since R is heavily dependent on the number of contacts, bringing the number of contacts down and reducing R should surprise no-one, and certainly not a scientist working in the field.

But that did me thinking that apart from the clapping, almost every thing the government has done on this has been at the level of the individual. You wash your hands, you keep social distance, and so on. The only really social thing I can think of was the volunteer scheme that some 750,000 signed up for where people were specifically trying to help others. But no-one I know who signed up has been asked to do anything yet.

Since there are so many references to the war, I checked and there were 1.4 million ARP wardens, when the population was around 48 million. It is in the order of one per street, I would guess.   So we have less volunteers, but not dramatically less. It should be possible to harness these into a 'Stay Alert' system, reporting any outbreaks in your street to a rapid-response testing unit, who can visit the person and get the tests completed in say 24 hours.   

That seems to me the sort of system you need in place before easing lockdown.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 15 May 20 - 04:28 AM

Let us count the ways in which they count the ways

Inside Science broadcast yesterday on BBC Radio 4

Inside Science

Had an interesting bit on the 'R Number' amongst other things. If you follow the link it will give you more information about the programme.

The Today programme on BBC Radio 4 this morning also had a number of items related to the 'R Number' and modelling.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 20 - 04:21 AM

Quite so, DtG. I’ve had one or two debates with Brexiteers In the real world about the apparent conflict between their two stated aims of ‘trading unhindered with anyone we choose’ and ‘putting our own industries and commercial enterprises first’. I’ve yet to get any of them to agree there’s a conflict, or that they’re guilty of trying to have their cake and eat it.

They seem perfectly content that, as they see it, Johnson ‘Got Brexit Done’! He didn’t, of course, but he and his cronies are certainly using the Covid-19 pandemic shenanigans as cover for their efforts to reach 31/12/20 with no EU Trade Agreement - the ‘hard brexit’ they’ve wanted and aimed for all along - and give them a convenient excuse that they were ‘too busy dealing with the pandemic’ to finalise negotiations.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 May 20 - 04:10 AM

I linked to that piece on 12/5/20 Dave. No response from the Tory-Fanboi or his acolytes on here. Why am I not surprised? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 15 May 20 - 02:54 AM

I don't know about anyone else, but I am getting a lot of facebook posts from Brexit supporters saying we need to be supporting British farmers, repatriating businesses to the UK, we need to be self-sufficient in PPE production and the like.

Fair enough: you can make a case for that. It is about ensuring local industry is viable, even if the same goods are available cheaper from outside. It is a world of state subsidy, and import tariffs.

But it is not a world of free trade: it is a protectionist one.

Which is not entirely compatible what they were arguing before, I would say.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 20 - 02:29 AM

It's no accident Britain and America are the world's biggest coronavirus losers

Full of stuff like

When the business of government becomes limited to populist set pieces, its ranks are purged of doers and populated instead with cheerleaders.


If you are a Tory cheerleader, don't read it!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 14 May 20 - 06:29 PM

Go to blazes catch Phrases

It means death to
lose your breath

If sick you can tell
Like Boris you'll
look like hell

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 20 - 05:10 PM

....and I’m with DtG.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 20 - 04:39 PM

I agree that those not keeping to the guidelines should bear some responsibility but we need to allow for the confusion that the government has caused in its mixed messages and leaks to the press over the last couple of weeks. What people need are easily understood rules and strong leadership. Not bluster, waffle and populist catch phrases.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 20 - 03:27 PM

Since so many of them voted tory, they're no longer considered "stupid"...

.. apparently...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 May 20 - 03:23 PM

I am normally one of the first to castigate the present government for their inaction over Corona virus and frankly their appalling record but on this occasion all the blame surely cannot be laid at their door.

I read today that almost 150,000 people have been infected in the last two weeks alone.

This is despite government measures to limit social interaction. The population at large must bear some of the responsibility for this by ignoring the guidelines.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:55 PM

"A spokesman for Movianto[a private company tasked with managing PPE] said the military deployment was “not because of any shortcomings in Movianto’s performance”, insisting the company had “executed the agreed plan” to mobilise the stockpile without any delay and in accordance with its contractual obligations."

Ah, the outsourcer's #1 excuse. "We did exactly what you asked us to do. If you didn't ask us to do what was needed, that's not our problem."

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 May 20 - 12:50 PM

Kier Starmer is a good egg. I enjoyed his disection of Johnson during yesterday's PMQ!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 20 - 10:03 AM

Same old same old..

Malicious tory liars are at it again...


Minister Nadine Dorries accused of spreading 'fake news' about Labour leader


"Ms Dorries shared a video suggesting Sir Keir
had been reluctant to prosecute grooming gangs when he was director of public prosecutions."

hmmm.. that looks familiar, like something 'hinted at' here yesterday...???

Just goes to show how the right 'organize' the spreading lies on the internet...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 May 20 - 08:53 AM

R is for...

"I R OK, F U !!!"



That's a free Tee Shirt slogan for any selfish young fukwits
who believe they are immune,
and don't give a shit if they spread death everywhere
Boris has granted them liberty to travel and mingle...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:43 AM

Thanks for that link Bonzo. I am not using a mask at the moment but was just planning ahead for as and when public transport gets a bit easier.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:42 AM

I onlly know that someone has pinched WILLIE CLANCY'S FACE-MASK
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:39 AM

I did find myself amused at my own stupidity (not rare, I am afraid) by a statement at the bottom of that poster "Bring transparents and music". It seemed far too LGBT friendly for the rest of the poster to be talking about bringing trans parents.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:35 AM

Just read in the local paper that an Anti Lockdown Protest is planned for Folkestone at the weekend. The so called organisers the "UK Freedom Movement" seem to be planning protests at various locations around the Uk.

Sounds the same bunch that are behind that Southampton poster I shared.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:28 AM

It is very easy to make a facemask from a sock - no need for sowing!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:26 AM

Just read in the local paper that an Anti Lockdown Protest is planned for Folkestone at the weekend. The so called organisers the "UK Freedom Movement" seem to be planning protests at various locations around the Uk.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 07:02 AM

Thanks, Rain Dog. Interesting podcast.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 May 20 - 06:05 AM

Let us count the ways...

More or Less broadcast yesterday on BBC Radio 4

R is one of the most important numbers of the pandemic. But how is it estimated? And is Vitamin D an under-appreciated weapon in the fight against Covid-19?

More or Less

++

I did ask earlier n this thread if any UK members had seen any facemasks for sale in any shops? I have not noticed any down here.

Our W H Smith has been closed since the lockdown and no signs of reopening yet. They have had a note on the door saying that the next two nearest branches in Folkestone and Canterbury are open.

++

Has anyone seen any more recent research on contracting the virus via touch?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 May 20 - 05:24 AM

And while the virus is under way, Brexit arrangements continue. From the Guardian:


In a letter to the executive office in Stormont the government confirmed there would be border control posts in three ports, Belfast, Warrenpoint and Larne.

Declan Kearney, one of the two junior ministers in the executive office, the regional equivalent of the Cabinet Office in London, confirmed the details at a select committee session in Belfast on Wednesday.

He told members of the local assembly that officials had briefed the executive on Monday.

“The sum total of that, and without breaching executive confidentiality … [is that the] British government has confirmed it will urgently put in place detailed plans with the executive, which does include the physical posts at ports of entry,” said Kearney.


Yet another thing Boris flatly denied would happen, even though he has agreed it with the EU. As if the relationships between Whitehall and Northern Ireland were not strained enough.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 20 - 04:52 AM

Sadly, Dave, the Working-Class-Tory-Neophytes aren’t very good at understanding anything more deep and meaningful the than three-word slogan, so they’ll continue supporting the court jester.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 20 - 04:27 AM

Excellent piece, BWM. There is a bit at the end that highlights what I have been saying for months. Boris is not to be trusted.

in a time of crisis you rather hope the country would have a leader in whom you could believe. Someone you could trust to make at least some of the right decisions. But we have Boris. Incompetent, unprepared, selfish, lazy, amoral, and just not that bright

American friends. Feel free to substitute Boris with Donald. It still works.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 May 20 - 02:26 AM

Is there a tune Shug ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:37 AM

I almost weakened enough to feel sorry for Johnson when he was being surgically dissected by Sir Keir Starmer at PMQs yesterday. John Crace, however, is clearly made of sterner stuff than soft, pink, fluffy me, and absolutely nails it in his Guardian piece today...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Shug Hanlan
Date: 13 May 20 - 04:52 PM

Posted this on another thread but it might make more sense here.

ON YOUR BIKE
(AGAIN)

The Norman Tebbit special
was still in the Bike Shed,
so I went back to work in England
just like Boris said.

I pedalled fast and furious
down roads all marked South,
maintaining social distancing
hardly opening my mouth.

I reached the Sawmill in Manchester
but never got past the door.
They said that I'd been sacked
over forty years before.

My mood darkened further,
I found my tyres were flat.
The bosses shouted, "Stay Alert,
you stupid Scottish twat."

SHUG HANLAN

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:52 PM

It would seem that Johnson is going to have his work cut out when dealing with the new leader of the Labour Party. The following article is very enlightening.

Starmer

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:42 PM

I wonder if the government will take heed of the upturn in cases of Corona Virus that have been reported in Germany since they took the step to lessen the lockdown.

Virus-New Cases

Given that the UK already has a atrocious track record (look at the figures) with dealing with this virus it is to be hoped they take on board the very serious dangers of lifting restrictions.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 20 - 01:05 PM

Sorry. Didn't paste the snippets in. Didn't really need them anyway