BS: Is the Mudcat American?

Subject: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 03:49 AM

On one of the UK politics threads someone said "has it ever dawned on you that you're holding your UK-centric brawl in a USA-based forum? Why? What ever made you think that was an acceptable thing for you to do?"

Is this true? I don't want to get into politics for obvious reasons but the fact that some Americans seem to see us UKers as interlopers using their forum stunned me. Surely lots of the Folk music that we discuss is from the UK. There are, I think, as many UK members as US ones. The very nature of the internet crosses any such boundries.

If it is true that this is a USA-centric forum, do we need to segregate UK based music discussions, which can get just as heated as politics, as well?

What do you all think? Contributions welcome from any nation :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 04:02 AM

Yes- it is American though Ironically, most people who pst here appear to be British with a few Irish thrown in
Unfortunately, what is allowed on this forum doesn't always reflect the views of it's membership, which is why this thread probably won't last
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 04:17 AM

What makes it American then, Jim? It is hosted in the US but surely such boundaries are irrelevant when it comes you the internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Barb'ry
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 04:20 AM

It is definitely an American site, started by Max. I don't think the Americans think of us as interlopers but it is my long held and much discussed belief that, although we speak the same language, our cultural backgrounds make our postings (and I'm talking from a UK viewpoint) different and sometimes less acceptable. I think the Europeans are mainly more combative and willing to spar and argue more, and more heatedly, if that's a word. I know there are many Americans who are like this and similarly many examples of calm and considered Brits, so I'm generalising.

I think you only have to think of American kids (this is spreading worldwide, I know) being told 'Good job', even if it's not - something that, to most Brits of the older generation, is very strange (good, positive, ideal - but strange). I think we were brought up differently in the main. Sarcasm, irony, and criticism, particularly in the North, often went as praise. Also, perhaps it is our pub culture where loud and sometimes obnoxious arguments went on into the small hours.

I'm not saying that what the Brits did or do is good or bad, it just is and as it is an American forum, we use their rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 04:27 AM

It was set up by an American who has currently anointed three American moderators and one Brit, but the founder appears to be very hands-off, very non-interventionist. He's let it take its own wings. In many ways that's admirable. It does give the mods considerable latitude, and yesterday that led to the unfortunate and clumsy comment (complete with expletive) that's provoked this thread. If you want to know whether Mudcat is American in flavour, all you have to do is glance down the list of topics above the line on any one day. No alien seeing that would ever think, blimey, how American is that!

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 04:41 AM

I don't see the rules as American, Barb'ry. They are just rules, well guidelines really, that anyone would have applied. My point is more about differentiating between nationalities. If the comment would have been more like "a nasty brawl on a polite forum", I would have just left it. If I have been nasty, I don't mind being called out for it. I do object to being demonised for not being born in the USA though:-(

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 05:07 AM

For me the appeal of this forum is its broad world wide coverage and one usually knows from whence a contributor comes.
Barb'ry says ".... Brits of the older generation........Sarcasm, irony, and criticism particularly in the North.." Could I ask, for clarity's sake, the North of where?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 05:30 AM

"What makes it American then, Jim? "
Three American moderators and an American owner for a start - for me, that shows up big-time on threads like the UK politics one where moderation shows litle sign of the subject being understood "you Brits" often being the giveaway
That doesn't mean we understand American politics any better - I doubt if even the Yanks manage that !!!
The internet is like the language, a commonality that divides us
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 05:39 AM

We are all guests here.

I see pubs have been mentioned. I don't know what pubs some of you go into but I imagine that if certain people carried on in pubs in the same way they behave here, they would soon find themselves barred.

All of us can go off and start up our own 'discussion' groups on the net if we want to. I don't know how many of you have already done that.

I see someone mentioned the north. Please don't get me started on northerners.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 06:03 AM

Dave, Raggytash and I are northerners. See you in the pub.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 06:15 AM

Like I said, don't get me started on northerners.

I live on the south coast and one of the worse things anyone can call you is a northerner. It used to be that if you lived outside the town you might well be labelled a northerner. But then came the internet.

Certain people (extremists) then said you can only be a southerner if you lived within a certain distance from the shoreline. Over time and due to many heated exchanges on the net, that distance has gradually got shorter and shorter, so we end up with the situation that people who come from families who have lived in this town for generations are now labelled northerners. That is not easy to take.

Then there are the even more extreme extremists who gather at the shoreline at low tide, just so they can harangue the other inhabitants of the town, calling them northerners. Most of us think of them as a right bunch of canutes. Just be thankful that none of them have made it to the mudcat yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 06:43 AM

Shows the confusions that can arise
I live in Ireland (I'm a Brit B and B - birthplace not accommodation)
Northerners are a different kettle of dingbats altogether over here
Mind you, it was the British Parliament which created the divisions in both places (Gawd bless Lloyd George and Mad Maggie, may they both rot....)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 06:51 AM

Mudcat is global and about folk music.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: peteglasgow
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 06:59 AM

it had never occurred to me to care about (though i'm interested to know) whether a poster on here was canadian, american or from scotland or elesewhere. though it is striking and sad that we don't have many (any?) posters not from the uk or north america. With respect to some recent 'controversies ' on here of late there are some of us here who will have grown up in our formative post hippy/punk days with the phrase 'no platform for racists or fascists' (or maybe 'what would joe strummer do?') - it is easy to get us annoyed on these topics. Now , we have kids in 4 european countries all with friends/partners from all over - and to not take a stand against that corossive nonsense would be despicable. (is racism such a toxic issue in the states?) I'm happy to consider myself a citizen of the world - or europe - or even just scotland. i think we do worry about nationalities and borders far too much. it allows our would be leaders to play the oldest trick in their nasty book - that of divide and rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:26 AM

It is very American in its moderation. Things that would be immediately deleted on a UK site, are allowed to run, sometimes seemingly unchecked, for ages. (Martin Gibson)
The blind adherence to freedom of speech as enshrined in the US constitution, is overdone. What many seem to forget is that freedom of speech does not include the freedom to be gratuitously nasty and insulting. If more of the nasty remarks were removed ASAP, it would alter the tone of many discussions on here, for the better.
Yes it's American in origin, and outlook. That in itself isn't a bad thing per se, but there is a lack of understanding on both sides as to what is acceptable, or amusing, or neither.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:45 AM

My posts are exclusively acceptable, amusing or neither. :^/
They are biased coming from my being a Univerity brat.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 07:58 AM

I agree with the point about bad behaviour and pubs but don't follow the northern bit. Sorry. However, there is bad behaviour across the board. The first two people I recall being kicked out were Clinton Hammond and Martin Gibson, both from West of the pond. The next two I remember were Teribus and Akenaton, from East of the pond. To make an issue of some combatants being British seems, to me, wrong somehow. Probably just me. I am willing to be shown the error of my ways:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:03 AM

”Certain people (extremists) then said you can only be a southerner if you lived within a certain distance from the shoreline. Over time and due to many heated exchanges on the net, that distance has gradually got shorter and shorter, so we end up with the situation that people who come from families who have lived in this town for generations are now labelled northerners. That is not easy to take.“

God lord! And to think I thought I live in The Backwoods! Makes my corner of Leafy Lincolnshire sound like the epitome of cosmopolitan living.

Think I’ll change my Mudcat ID from ‘Backwoodsman’ to ‘Cosmo’! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:10 AM

Me murrican.
Max murrican.
Site global.
UK politics, like murrican ones, global in effect and consequences.
Most posters UK rather than murrican in my experience.
Most posters cares global.
Provincial bozos need not read threads about places they think don't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:15 AM

"I agree with the point about bad behaviour and pubs "
Not sure the comparison is valid
In argument in a pub never, in my experience, leads to the pub being emptied, guvnors are far more sensible than that as they realise it only takes getting rid of the main cause of the trouble
Mind you, if anybody accused "Northerners", "southerners", "Blacks" North or South of the river" people.... of being the main cases of the problem, the govnor whola have to order new furniture every week
"Look well into thyself", as Marcus Aureleas was once heard to remark

"Things that would be immediately deleted on a UK site, are allowed to run,"
Can't speak of the US, but as far as I can tell, I have never known a site where topic close as regularly as this one - would be interested to know of one
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:52 AM

But are N(n))ortherners from North Britain or Northern England? Folk who call them self "northerners" are English or British? It's getting difficult to know if people are talking about England or Britain. The media uses the term "the country" when it means England and also sometimes means Britain. I wish "northerners" would be explicit and tell us they mean from the North of England.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:07 AM

"North of England."
Unfortunately, to some southerners that starts at Mill Mill and for Parliamentarians, Regent's Park (coz that's where the posh houses run out)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Barb'ry
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:13 AM

Sorry, I should have said northern England, although my Scottish and Irish relatives are more than capable of fearsome arguments!
As far as the pub arguments are concerned, maybe I'm wrong in that or maybe I just went to the wrong pubs in my youth!

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:15 AM

When I talk about ‘the country‘ I mean Great Britain. When I talk about ‘northerners’, I mean the north of England. If I talk about people from further north than England, I refer to them as ‘Scots’, ‘Scottish’, or Scotsmen/women’.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:26 AM

Them Southerners get out of the bath to 'ave a pee. Soft buggers. They can't stand a bit of froth on their beer either. Soft buggers. They put the letter R in the word castle and the word bath. Soft buggers.

As me ould granny used to say "there's nowt wrong wi' out whats gradely o'er t' sump so longs as there's tripe in pickling'"

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:31 AM

Donuel tried to open up an American politics thread and it was hastily closed. What's up with that?

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:35 AM

There used to people here from all over, and I loved it. Germany, New Zealand, Canada, France, Australia, Denmark, China, Japan, and I'm probably missing some.

They mostly aren't here now.

I've never minded people from one specific country posting here. What I dislike is when a mob of them post as if there were no one else in the world, because it makes others leave. Or at least, they move into the shadows and lurk, and only seem to come out when somebody dies. I miss all those folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:37 AM

No sparklers used in dispensing our beer.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:38 AM

Everyone knows that the north starts north of the Watford Gap. According to the Guardian this divide dates back to Viking times.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:40 AM

In other words, DtG, do you know about the Ugly American? An American in another country is loud, brash, and thinks he's so much better than other people?
Yeah, that's how I see some of you. Not all, but even the reasonable people are starting to join in with the bullies.

It hasn't always been this way, but just now, it seems you don't come for the friendship, you come here for the fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:43 AM

I completely agree with John Mackenzie. Untrammelled "free speech" is a bad thing, and no-one should be frightened of shutting someone up who is being gratuitously obnoxious. I know I keep harping on about it, but The Session (as far as I know) has one moderator who does not suffer fools gladly, he won't let you argue or negotiate with him (don't I know it) and his word is as final as final can be. At one time it was rather like it is here now, but Jeremy didn't half sort it out. Arguably, it's a less feisty place as a result, but it's his gig and I can see precisely why he did what he did in his big clean-up a few years ago. Dick Gaughan's now-defunct forum was a decent place to be. It had a few characters who you could see would have liked to have been obnoxious, but the one moderator, Molly, was a woman you dared not cross (yet she was friendly and cheery and witty too). It's not fair to give Iains the free rein he has here, then keep bollocking the rest of us for not wanting to put up with it. The starting point is that he insults us. So the comparison with pubs falls down straight away. His behaviour wouldn't be tolerated for five minutes even in the seediest pubs I've known (and I've known a few). A firm and silent hand on the delete button for a few weeks, no answering back allowed, would fix him. If we saw that happening it would calm the rest of us down too. And the mods would end up with a lot less work to do. Try it and see. But who am I...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:45 AM

You're at it again. No-one at the moment except for Iains comes here for a fight. Although in the last couple of days it does seem that you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:49 AM

I have called this whole locale bigotry thing a tempest in a teapot.

In six months the scarcity of food and hyper inflation amid the pandemic will be the rational survival topic.

I am not a prig but some 'Pub' UK posters sound like they start drinking before posting. Aftdffr ashrte time foes vy hsinds endurhjnd dekr oir od coxtro;

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:01 AM

Back woodsman, when you say you are a "northerner" but if you said "this country" then there's the dichotomy. How would anyone know where you are talking about?
To square the circle we have to assume that when someone says they are "northerners" or from the "North" they mean "of England" but when they say"this country" they mean Great Britain"..... !
Walter Scott sometimes signed himself NB meaning North Britain so he was very clear about his Union credentials.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:03 AM

Easy fallback that, Donuel, but it's an accusation best avoided. It's three in the afternoon here now, I'm stone-cold sober and have just come in from my permitted bike ride and I challenge you to detect differences between my mid-afternoon posts and late evening ones. If I'm going to have a drink, it's never before 7 PM. You will note I'm sure that it's an accusation that Iains makes. Don't descend to that level. Over to you...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Mossback
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:19 AM

There used to people here from all over, and I loved it... They mostly aren't here now.

Jeri, there used to be people of color here too. Ever wonder why THEY'RE gone?

Ever consider that the people whose loss you bemoan left because of institutional failure to control trolls of the Iains variety?

You're at it again [Jeri]. No-one at the moment except for Iains comes here for a fight. Although in the last couple of days it does seem that you do.

Amen, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Iains
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:32 AM

I think the mods are the sole arbiters here. If Mr Shaw has a problem with that (and he most demonstrably has) perhaps he should leave and find a forum more willing to bend to his will The mods are intelligent people, they make their own decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 10:45 AM

This has all the earmarks of a thread that will disappear one of these days. #JustSoYouKnow

There is the "above the line" music area that is expansive and global and where political fighting is culled from threads; threads can discuss political music but inserting unrelated political opinion and fighting is not acceptable.

Below the line is where much of the trouble happens. Below the line posts started years ago when too much nonsense was happening in the site in general and it became possible to filter out the BS from the Music topics. All of this is the design of the private American owner of Mudcat who likes to let people talk, but shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is not part of that. And the pete and repeat fights that occur again and again, those get on the last nerve of the unpaid moderators who work on the site, the moderators find those unacceptable.

Those of you who clamor to have trolls removed because they don't share your political opinions, why not pretend they're your national leaders and just ignore the nonsense and get on with life, like you do now in the real world? Just skip past the posts you know you'll disagree with and carry on.

So yes, Mudcat is American. British politics are pretty inscrutable from this side of the pond and the repeated squabbling about stuff that is meaningless to most of the moderators is not received well.

Share your love of music, keep looking for those obscure lyrics and tunes, and share recipes and pet stories. We'd all do well with a moratorium of the UK politics for a while. Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:04 AM

The BS section just got a dose of Immodium.
Stay safe and feel better soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:08 AM

What she said... ☝

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:27 AM

No, Bill, not what she said:

"Those of you who clamor to have trolls removed because they don't share your political opinions..."

Not one person here wants anyone removed because of their political opinions. That's a Joe saying, and it simply isn't true. We want trolls removed (or to stop being trolls) because they are gratuitously offensive, utterly intolerant and needlessly provocative. I doubt whether you, Bill, Joe, Jeri, Joe, Donuel or a dozen others share my political opinions. But you haven't heard me calling for them to be removed.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:31 AM

What he said ^^^^

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:34 AM

"Those of you who clamor to have trolls removed because they don't share your political opinions, "
I'm sorry Stilly but this a lie now too often repeated, that simply isn't true and unfortunately, has been invented by a moderator and now taken up by all of them
nobody has ever asked any to be removed for their beliefs but because of their persistent insulting
It happens that that one person happens to be of the right persuasion is immaterial - he behaves as he does that's what he chooses to do
I have little doubt that this thread will disappear, but in case it does I will circulate it to those who have posted to it in the hope that it can be nipped in the bud once and for all

We have been told by a moderator that we are forbidden to discuss moderation policy because you have no way of defending yourself - you have and use the power to close threads and some of you have taken to insulting and talking down to members (those to whom you are supposed to ve working for) as badly as the troll
You have fiefroofed yourselves from criticism in the way no other forum organiser has (in my experience)

I have little doubt that this thread will disappear, but in case this message does, I will circulate it to those who have posted to it in the hope that it can be nipped in the bud once and for all
Sadly
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:45 AM

A few years ago, there were a number of Brits who came to the FSGW Getaway as part of a singing group. Several of them came on their own, and were wonderful additions to both the music and the camaraderie.

One of my very good friends is an expat who is now an American citizen... but has many stories about his younger days in England.

On the whole, my own life and understanding of both music and my own **extensive** English heritage has been enhanced by the long list of Brits, Scots and Irish who have been a part of this site for over 20 years.
It IS the case that cultural differences often show up in the flavor & intensity of political .... ummm... 'discussions' and language. I even see it in various British comedy TV shows we get... and I often have to resort to closed-caption to get some of the language and references.

In Max's attempt to have a site that is as open and 'free' as possible, there are inevitable conflicts and disputes about 'where to draw the line' when remarks and attitudes get personal and/or excessively heated.

   I know personally... as in RT meetings and long chats, Dick Greenhaus, Susan of DT, Max, all of the mods but SRS.. and still have developed a close contact with even her. They ALL good people and are trying... but the old line about "herding cats" applies in spades.. and "herding Mudcats" is perhaps even more fraught with awkwardness.

   There is **NO** way to do any sort of moderation without debates about the difference between 'reasonable moderation' and 'overdone censorship'. It seems to be "Now MY ox is being gored!"

An "American site?" only in some sort of legal sense. This is the rarest sort of sites... world-wide in scope,privately run, long lasting, **mostly** uncensored... and with millions of posts over 20+ years still available.

I am 81 next month. If this damned virus leaves me alone, I expect to be following Mudcat for a few more years....

I sure hope nothing...internal or external... occurs to interfere with it.

Ya' all take care....

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 11:56 AM

I see there has been 'splitting of hairs' while I typed.

Whether or not there has been "clamoring for removal" or just "control" of certain posts & poster(s).. it all amounts to differences of opinion. And who can figure out how to settle that kind of debate?
It is opinion...opinion about opinion and opinion about opinion³.

Now it is "herding cats"³

Sheesh...

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:07 PM

(I once had a cartoon where a guy was sitting at the computer with his wife looking at him with a worried expression. He is saying, "But I can't go to bed yet... there's something wrong on the Internet!")

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:14 PM

Well, as I keep trying to tell Steve, Jim, pfr, etc., the way to deal with someone whose purpose here is to provoke, insult, and foment flame-wars, is to ignore them. By so doing, their purpose is frustrated (they lose, you win) and they are left with a choice - debate and discuss in a civilised manner, or their provocative, insulting, flame-baiting behaviour highlights itself (again, they lose, you win).

None are so blind as they who will not see.

BillD, SRS, Jeri - it’s sweet f**k all to do with differences of opinion, and everything to do with provocation, insults, and flaming. Get your heads around that. Nigel Parsons and Bonzo Three Legs are diametrically opposed to Steve, Jim etc. politically, but no-one asks for their removal because Nigel, despite his childish nit-picking, is always polite and courteous, and Bonzo posts his nonsense with a smile on its face.

Once again - None are so blind as they who will not see.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:32 PM

" the way to deal with someone whose purpose here is to provoke, insult, and foment flame-wars, is to ignore them. "

Right..

"it’s sweet f**k all to do with differences of opinion, "

sadly, not right. That in itself IS an opinion. You disagree with my opinion about opinions.

Please tell us how to resolve this.... oh, wait... you just did... ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:46 PM

Is the Mudcat territorial?
Was the Mudcat territorial from its beginning?
If the Mudcat is/was other than territorial at some point,
how was it different then
from the way it is now?

If the Mudcat is territorial now,
is it territorial in its entirety,
or are some aspects of the Mudcat other than territorial,
and some aspects more territorial than not?

Just my opinion:
When I see forum members telling you-know-who
how to do their jobs, warning bells go off.

Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Apr 20 - 12:48 PM

"None are so blind as they who will not see."
I have attempted to explain why I have reservations about this approach
I would much rather be talked out of it rather than having the same thing repeated over and over again
What you are suggesting is to leave them in peace to do what they do unmolested
Far from driving them away, they are now being supported by the moderators by being made the victims of our political prejudice - a step further back than when we started
A situatin invented by my favourite AMERICAN AUTHOR
Jim