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BS: Is the Mudcat American?
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Iains Date: 25 Apr 20 - 11:09 AM The argument seems a little one sided at the moment. Time for an illustrated bit of balance Jim Carroll - PM Neither God nor the British electorate supports any of the venom posted by the cabal, yet they continue to plead their innocence. Time to fess up boyos. - You just like to provoke so you can play victim when your pathetic ruse is exposed. The Labour supporters all try the same ruse. Have a listen to Guido itemising some prime examples on the media recently. https://order-order.com/2020/04/25/guido-talks-expert-activists-media-distrust/?utm_source=Guy+Fawkes%27+Blog+List&utm_campaign= I am afraid you live in a frozen time bubble. Labour has been out of power for a decade and you seem to take out your frustrations on this forum and get uppity when forced to acknowledge the fact. Seems to me you 4 members of the cabal are entirely resposible for all the trouble and strife on this forum. Hypocrites, or what? Getting rid of me would not solve the problem, Getting rid of you would! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Apr 20 - 10:53 AM The culprit was discovered, John, and it's the same person we are discussing here. I'm sending you details by PM as they should not be made public in the open forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 10:49 AM I think America might be in bed at the present time - never did get the hang of time-zones Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Donuel Date: 25 Apr 20 - 10:17 AM Of the last 34 posts 4 were American. I used to think the UK had the most members but this thread has persuaded me that may have been an illusion. I don't care. I just look for who is more interesting and what I can learn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 10:10 AM "for you to whine about ian. and joe." That was a flippant comment aimed at Joe Workie - not exactly 'the listening bank' Complaining about a moderator is quite likely to have us standing against the wall at dawn Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: peteglasgow Date: 25 Apr 20 - 09:10 AM ok, jim - i'll stop whining about trolls other than ian and leave the field clear for you to whine about ian. and joe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 20 - 09:06 AM Well, John, there's a compromise. You have to join but your real name doesn't have to be for all eyes. As for me, I'm a controversial sort of chap when I'm not being my usual fluffy bunny self, I always use my real name, y'all know where I live and I've never had that kind of trouble. But I know it can happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 09:01 AM Stop "whining about trolls" if you want to keep this thread going lads - you know the rules !! Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Apr 20 - 08:59 AM The problem there, Steve, is that you lay yourself open to abuse away from the forum? Those of us who remember the ‘Folk Against Fascism’ period know exactly what that resulted in, and it was very, very ugly indeed. One of my personal (real-world) friends, a former Mudcat member, was very badly affected by it, to the point of calling in the police, and there were a significant number of others. The culprit(s) were never discovered, to my knowledge, although the police were aware of the part of the UK he lived in. There’s no way in hell I’m going to expose myself to that kind of shit. If anyone here wants to know who I am, they’re perfectly at liberty to PM me and ask - if I consider them worthy, I’ll tell them. Otherwise, it’s Foxtrot-Oscar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 20 - 08:50 AM Gaughan Forum Rule 2: No anonymous members. It is a requirement of forum membership that you let the other members know who you are. There is not a single good reason in a forum of this kind for anonymity*. If you are normally known by a nickname, by all means use it here; my birth name was Richard but the only people who ever use that are my parents (both dead) and my two sisters and their children. The no-anonymity rule is not here to check people's birth certificates, it is simply so that we all know who we're talking to and the risk of anonymous trolling is reduced. As said, by all means use a nickname on posts but please put your real name in your member profile and you will be asked to give it when registering. *As with this one, this forum discussed both music and politics, among other things. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 20 - 08:40 AM Which it should. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Apr 20 - 08:27 AM It is a known troll, Pete. He can only come on as a guest but uses the names of other Mudcatters after the "Guest" tag. If you see, for instance, Guest:Dave the Gnome it will be a pound to a penny that it is not me but the troll trying to stir up trouble. To make matters even worse he used the name of a lovely well respected lady, now sadly departed, the other day. The moderators are on to him and remove his posts as they appear. There is nothing that can be done about his using the names of others until Mudcat becomes a members only forum. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 08:21 AM Your not interrupting anything Workie - I wish you every success - hope your able to hold your breath for long periods Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: peteglasgow Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:53 AM sorry to interrupt the ian argument - joe, could you answer my question about the fraud thing and what happens with old names? thanks... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:40 AM "Goodnight, Stevie. You're boring." More talking down to from your mountain-top You make our point for us Joe Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:40 AM "Goodnight, Stevie. You're boring." More talking down to from your mountain-top You make our point for us Joe Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:39 AM "Fuck you, Stevie"....remember that one from January, Joe? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:24 AM Goodnight, Stevie. You're boring. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:22 AM Yes, you do have a habit of sending abusive PMs, don't you. I still have all my posts going back for four years. Sorry to add to your boredom. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: peteglasgow Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:18 AM thanks joe, (i'm replying to a note from joe about someone using my name here) i know it isn't the first time (this week!) that this has happened. is it not possible to discontinue all old names to stop this happening again? and is stealing someone's ex-identity in this way not sufficient cause to get them banned off mudcat? it is fraud and technically a legal offence |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:17 AM "can I realistically be accused of being "ageist" and anti-male?"" Yes you damn well can I was brought up not to refer to people as being "old" - certainly not in the context of abusive sentences like yours The problem with Bullies is they are unaware of their abusive behaviour and seem to think it normal Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:16 AM You're not a moderator but you can close threads and you tried to ban me a few months ago. Pull the other one. You can't show me any single post of Iains' that has garnered twenty lengthy, angry protest posts. Nothing like. Stop making things up. As for this: "...but they'd rather do battle. They live to do battle. And in the process, they're not doing Mudcat any good" The only person who currently comes here to do battle is Iains, unless you'd like to count yourself. I do NOT "live to do battle." I post in music threads, recipe threads, joke threads and all sorts of whimsical threads. I don't do battle in those. I do not live to do battle. And what's not doing Mudcat any good is your adamant refusal to excise the person who is causing the trouble. Instead of facing up to that obstinate fact, like Molly used to do and like Jeremy does, but probably doesn't have to any more, you leave him unfettered then blame the rest of us. We are all decent human beings with all the flaws that that comes with. One such flaw is that we find it hard to ignore being grossly insulted by a far-right know-nothing. Yes there's a counsel of perfection, but we are human and should try harder of course. But you are letting him insult us, exposing us to that when you have it in your gift to stop him. On the contrary, it almost seems to give you pleasure in allowing it. Then you attack US. And I reckon we want Mudcat to be a better place a damn sight more than you appear to do. So quit the demonising and get a grip, Joe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:13 AM [sigh] Good night, Jim. You're boring. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:11 AM "Actually, Jim, I'm not a moderator;" In which case the moderators should be able to deal with your appalling behavior without any problems - we know damn well they are unable to because you wirld the big stick on this forum You scupperd a discussion on Ewan and banned us talking about Walter for a long Parion - when I protested I was suspended - twice Your claims don't fit your actions Your accusations about bullies ring false as you have protected the worst of them for years y claiming him to be the victim of those who disapprove of his politics, despite having had many dozens of examples of his personal abuse being put up in front of all your noses - he is as right as they come, he has denigrated Irish, black and Travellers with your full support - that's not politics - that's juas verbal abuse at the lowest level - illegal in Britain You are in fact the worst bully here - you have persistently denigrated the members by referring tio them as "children" - you described me as suffering from dementia - (you are of course, medically qualified to do so, I'm sure !!) you have manipulated threads like those so MacColl so you could talk about his politics rather than his work on music.... Your behavior is that of a classic bully Complaining about trolls elicits the accusation of "whining", your latest ageist outburst ranks mildly next to some past behaviour Your PMs read like hate mail - I still have them - personal and occasionally foul-mouthed abuse - so much so ou protested when I told you I was passing them on to some of your other victims You are what you are and many of us have learned to live with it, but you are now decalring war between moderators and ordinary members by feeding them your dishonest claim that our objection to your pet troll is "political" That really doesn't auger well for the future of this oncce important and pleasurable forum I have formally complained - let's see what happens, not too much if the past is anything to go by As usual - this will be passed around in case anybody misses it Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: peteglasgow Date: 25 Apr 20 - 07:02 AM i saw a thread on the list (with 1 comment ) about the difference 'English folk versus American folk' and thought 'that's a bit ' unnecessary. when i opened it i find it was put there by someone using an old name of mine! i knew nothing about it. thankfully, the thread has closed - could some mod tell me what has happened here as i find this disturbing?
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Apr 20 - 06:45 AM Actually, Jim, I'm not a moderator; and I stay as far away from "disciplinary" moderation as I can. I'll close a music thread if it gets overly combative, but I almost never delete posts. I am the music editor, and I would like very much for Mudcat to be a home for the pleasant music discussion we used to have instead of a battleground for people who want to wallow in their pettiness. And yes, I would very much like to have civil and constructive discussions of Walter Pardon and Ewan MacColl. The ones I call the "usual suspects" have been a blight on Mudcat for years. Their first pariah was Lizzie Cornish, if I recall correctly. There wasn't anything really wrong with her, except for the fact that she was (and still is) quite daft. But the mob got after her, and made far more of a disturbance than Lizzie ever made herself. And once Lizzie got scared away (because we refused to ban her), the mob picked another pariah, and then another, and now Iains. I'm also Mudcat's public contact person. When I get a complaint, I check it out and then refer it to the Forum of Moderators for action. Over the years, I have received a steady stream of complaints about the various pariahs. Being a conscientious sort of person, I go through the person's posts over the past few days, and I find very little that people complain about - but one objectionably right-wing post from somebody like Iains can generate twenty lengthy, angry posts from the mob. Now, the mob could just ignore the offending post and go on talking about what they were talking about, but they'd rather do battle. They live to do battle. And in the process, they're not doing Mudcat any good. I'd rather talk about music, and I never cease to be amazed at how I have been able to meet so many extraordinary musicians at Mudcat. I have made wonderful music friends all over the world. But this small group of people, all males, is making friendly and interesting music discussion increasingly impossible. These combatants scare a lot of good people away. I suppose that's the way of the world nowadays. In our local government in a rural California county, a small but vocal group of bullies makes it almost impossible to have a civil discussion. People are scared to speak up at public meetings, and then they stop attending - because the right-wing bullies work so hard to hold their turf. At Mudcat, the bullies are on the left, but they are every bit as combative and every bit as wrong as the right-wing bullies. I'm tired of it. -Joe Offer- P.S. I'm called "ageist" because I identified the "usual suspects" as old and male. I'm old and a male myself, but I try to avoid combat and do my best to be open to younger people. If I'm 71 and male myself, can I realistically be accused of being "ageist" and anti-male? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Doug Chadwick Date: 25 Apr 20 - 06:43 AM The only person who comes here to fight is Iains .... If only that were true! DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Apr 20 - 06:38 AM The way to demonstrate who is the Problem Poster, in a way that even his cronies on the Moderation Team can’t ignore, is to ignore his insults and provocation completely. Then his behaviour will be thrown into stark relief, and ‘Gentle’ Joe (whose recent PMs to me prove that he’s anything but ‘gentle’) will have to acknowledge the truth. How many bloody times does it have to be said before it sinks in. Now I’ve had a gutful of this crap. See ya. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 06:20 AM I have just posted a formal complaint to a moderator - we'll see what happens Jim Carroll Not sure how to go about this but I would like to formally protest at Joe Offers abusing some of the older members of this forum using inappropriate ageist language Iain's is hard enough to cope with without a moderator going toxic This is not the fist time this has happened - it illustrates perfectly my point about moderators fireproofing themselves from criticism I suggest you get your team sorted out before he drives more people away than he already has Sorry to land you with this Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 06:09 AM We have a small group of old men who like to fight, and they make it unpleasant for the rest of us Just as we have a moderator who wields =his power (using ageist terms) to insulyt those he's supposed to work on behalf of As a moderator you are the most immoderate poster on this forum Joe and insensitive enough not to realise it Who can I complain to or will you just close the read to defend yourself Behave responsibly please Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 20 - 06:05 AM Many British singers, eh? An easy remark to dash off. Tell us more. Unless you'd care instead to reflect on the irony of your extremely combative and negative attitude revealed in these last couple of posts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Apr 20 - 06:01 AM And your post, Joe Offer, is from an old man who sounds as though he likes to start fights. In other words, don't be so daft. The only person who comes here to fight is Iains, but you can't see it. You just think that "he has different political views." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Apr 20 - 06:01 AM No, Backwoodsman, it's beyond that, and it's a problem that has existed for a long, long time. Many British singers have apologized to me for the small group of men who have dumped such a constant presence of animosity on Mudcat. It gives the whole forum a bad taste, and it chases people away because the animosity is almost frightening. I know a lot of singers from all over the world, and very few are obsessed with combative conduct as our small, male group that has such a dominant and unpleasant presence. It's not normal behavior, and it's not the normal conduct of folk musicians. Most of us are a gentle lot. We come together to enjoy each other, not to do battle. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Apr 20 - 05:55 AM Don’t read the thread then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Apr 20 - 05:46 AM It has nothing to do with nationality. We have a small group of old men who like to fight, and they make it unpleasant for the rest of us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Apr 20 - 05:23 AM I should have gone on to say maybe we are old and being a bit thoughtless. But it has nothing to do with us being British! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Apr 20 - 05:20 AM Never a truer word than your last line, Jim. And a sensible post all round. I am lucky in that on our visits to the states we have stayed with relatives and mixed with the ordinary everyday folk that are their friends and neighbours. I really don't recognise the 'ugly American' as was mentioned earlier. The only time I have come across the loud and brash was in Mexico where a group of young American people were being a nuisance in the pool. An older American lady had a quiet word with them and they were much better behaved after that. The problem was not that they were American but that they were young and being a bit thoughtless. That is what I am trying to get at. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 Apr 20 - 04:55 AM "I still feel that stereotyping is wrong" It is, of course and the problem certainly lies in both courts I've always got on with Americans I met but that's hardly surprising as we mainly had a mutual interest in out music Our politicians are another problem altogether - while they may be elected by the people they certainly don't reflect their characters Britain has always been haunted by the "Rule Britannia" legacy of Empire where to be foreign was to be inferior - people to exploit rather than to unite with To a large degree multiculturalism began to wipe that out - now its back big-time, largely thanks to Brexit America is multicultural by birth, but opportunist fanatics like Trump, thet multiculturalism appears t be fragmenting - The US has always had the slavery era hanging over it - that's been brought back too Lets face it, if it was left to the people rather than self-serving politician and churchmen, there would probably never have been wars Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Apr 20 - 04:17 AM I think we have lost our way a bit. Or maybe it was just a pleasant diversion :-) I think the answer is, Yes, the Mudcat is American. There is, of corse, a but. It is international in its membership and attitude. Maybe he Brits should be more considerate of American attitudes and maybe the Americans should either be more tolerant of us or not get involved in UK politics. I don't have the answer, my friend, and it ain't blowin' in the wind. I still feel that stereotyping is wrong but I probably got the sentiment of the remark wrong. If so, apologies for causing this storm in a tea cup. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Bill D Date: 24 Apr 20 - 09:46 PM *grin* that's one of the most perfect puns I ever heard. It's better told live... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Donuel Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:22 PM lol pfr, told my wife that one Bill that one took me an agonized 10 seconds. 8^] |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Bill D Date: 24 Apr 20 - 08:01 PM An old Texas cattle rancher died and left his ranch to his 3 boys, to run or sell as they wished. They thought about it and decided to keep the ranch going and share the work and the business equally. They did decide they needed a new name for it... and after awhile one of them had an inspiration--- they called it "FOCUS Ranch" because . . . . . . that's where the sons raise meat.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: punkfolkrocker Date: 24 Apr 20 - 04:48 PM Donny - but I still have no clue why you are quoting it...??? Where do philosophical cowboys do their best thinking.. The Ponderosa Ranch... ..what a bonanza of trans atlantic merriment... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Donuel Date: 24 Apr 20 - 03:53 PM Hitler and Stalin were both fond of westerns. They are often better than space operas. I watched every episode of Deadwood. pfr The real quote is "the past is never dead..." its by W Faulkner and very American |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: gillymor Date: 24 Apr 20 - 03:00 PM Saw one of my favorites last night, One Eyed Jacks, with Brando and Karl Malden. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 24 Apr 20 - 02:53 PM "I'm a lifelong fan of western movies." Yup - mine too (especially black and white ones) Watched Liberty Valance Last night Stewart, Wayne and Marvin all in one masterpiece - what more could a girl wish for (Gawd bless Moving Pictures channel) Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Apr 20 - 02:49 PM I bought "The Alamo" on DVD some time back because I remembered it being good. I was dissapoined :-( Django was very good though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: punkfolkrocker Date: 24 Apr 20 - 02:42 PM Donny - ?????????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! btw.. I'm a lifelong fan of western movies.. They are absolutely my favourite film genre... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Donuel Date: 24 Apr 20 - 02:30 PM pfr you did not mean to but you said it is bad to go back to the past but its good to have a reservation to go back to. But that is reality, its mixed. This will never be resolved in your mind since the past is never past. In fact it still hasn't past. (confusing enough for you?) As for reading, few people do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is the Mudcat American? From: Jim Carroll Date: 24 Apr 20 - 02:28 PM "And USA politics is beyond a minefield now.." As id America's situation with guns - they've obviously missed your input Bill Jim |