Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)

Subject: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 May 20 - 12:09 AM

OK, so I'll say more about this later, but one song that has to be in the third volume of Rise Up Singing, is "Log Driver's Waltz."

Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 May 20 - 12:20 AM

I suggested that we should start working on a third volume of the Rise Up Singing Songbook, and Peter Blood and Annie Patterson said, "You do it, Joe!"

So, I think we should make an online songbook at Mudcat.

The first two books were Rise Up Singing and Rise Again. I love both books, and I worked very hard on the second one and continue working on a database to support the books with YouTube videos and background information. But I have to say I don't like many of the songs in these books.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 14 May 20 - 05:47 AM

I'd like to see more Australian songs in Volume 3. Poison Train, Wee Pot Stove, Do You Think That I Do Not Know, The Ballad of 1891, Weevils in the Flour, Song of the Sheetmetal Worker, Anderson's Coast, The Sandy Hollow Line, He Fades Away, Time is a Tempest, Bare-Legged Kate, Miner's Washing, The Man with the Pink Triangle, The Swaggies Have All Waltzed Matilda Away, The People Have Songs, Hey Rain, Sixteen Million People, Thirty-Ton Line, Past Carin', Of Trees and Humankind, The Outside Track, Year of the Drum, and I could go on....

Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: cnd
Date: 14 May 20 - 01:36 PM

It'd certainly be a neat way to make the book more accessible

Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 May 20 - 02:39 PM

Will there be a paid subscription or will it be a labor of love, like the DT?

Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 May 20 - 04:54 PM

No, what I'm thinking of, is having it right here at Mudcat, one thread per chapter, with this thread as the planning thread. I think we need songs that people are likely to actually likely to learn and sing, a treasure of the familiar (but not the trite). And I have a preference for songs people can sing together, at least on the chorus.
Name a chapter title, and give us some songs from that category that you think people would like to sing.
I'm open to suggestions for titles for this songbook. Right now, I think the working title should be Rise Up, Mudcat!

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 May 20 - 02:27 PM

I've been thinking about your note. I suggest you adopt a format that allows song posts only on the threads. These threads would be posted as links above the list of posters. Discussions could be accommodated by a new category, something like "about: XYZ." This would keep the main song threads from becoming cluttered with commentary and, at the same time, allow people to discuss entries.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 May 20 - 03:44 PM

I'm thinking that the finalized chapters will be closed threads, with just the song lyrics - and a separate thread to discuss each chapter and submit links to lyrics (lyrics themselves should be posted in existing or new song threads, following our usual one song/one thread practice.

Any suggestions for chapter titles, so we can start some chapter threads?

I think maybe we shouldn't duplicate songs that are already in Rise Up Singing or Rise Again.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 15 May 20 - 04:11 PM

I don't have the first two volumes, so I don't know if this has already been used, but...

Murder Ballads

From the sublime to the ridiculous, think of the possibilities.


Jay

Subject: RE: Rise Up Singing, Volume 3 (online)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 May 20 - 05:03 PM

A chapter of Jim Maclean songs.

Ditto for Anne Feeney and David Rovics.

Lockdown balcony songs around the world.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 May 20 - 06:55 PM

A "Murder Ballads" chapter, Jay? Brilliant!

I love my Quaker supervisors from Rise Up Singing, but I don't think they could do a "Murder Ballads" chapter (but they did include "Banks of the Ohio"). Want to post a list of songs?

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe_F
Date: 17 May 20 - 05:58 PM

Fall Down Singing

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 May 20 - 06:08 PM

As we are talking of an online book, how will you add new offerings to closed threads? Unlike a paper book, there is no reason for a properly curated site to ever close out unless there will be a potential RUS, Volume 4, etc. As Tolkien put it, the road goes ever on.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 May 20 - 06:56 PM

Well, I can add things to closed threads. I can also make them PermaThreads and assign an editor. That's why I think we need "feeder" threads for discussion and suggestions, and then we can add to the final chapter. Only problem is, it's difficult to reorder threads once things have been posted - so it would be hard to have added songs in alphabetical order.
-Joe-

Some subjects:
Murder
Environment
Activism
Justice
Ballads (we already have ballads in RUS and RA)
Sentimental Songs
Blues (We have a good blues chapter in RA)
Planes, Trains, and Automobiles
Ships
Animals
Preschool

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: cnd
Date: 17 May 20 - 07:46 PM

I like the themes, Joe. I think a section on nature could be neat. Potentially related to "Environment," but more about the beauty of nature and appreciating it

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 May 20 - 09:56 PM

Instead of forcing things into a specific order, perhaps they could simply be indexed and linked, as we now do so that someone looking for x could go down the list of a general subject, click on the title and arrive directly on x, as we already do with threads and songs that relate to subjects under discussion. That would also allow hyperlinking for relevance at the end of an entry, let us say, to a YouTube of the song.
This project seems perfect for overcoming the limitations of paper books. By creating the ability to add versions, you would be creating something closer in spirit to Child's approach to presenting songs than to having people say "This is THE official version of this song. It says so right here right here in the book." I believe we both agree that this is a major objection to people who treat RUS as the authority instead a starting point to making a song their own.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 20 - 11:27 PM

"Moonshiner" - I'm a Rambler, I'm a Gambler

Going to the West

Tell Old Bill

Poor Lazarus

Lorena

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 23 May 20 - 03:23 AM

"Going to the West" is on Finest Kind, Lost in a Song. Liner notes say, "Ann [Downey] learned this beautiful, lonesome song of western migration from the singing of Kate Brislin and Jody Stecher. Its lineage before them can be traced through Ginny Hawker and Peggy Seeger to Byron Arnold's 'Folksongs of Alabama'."

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: GUEST,Bo in OH
Date: 23 May 20 - 11:34 PM

Loved both RUS and RA as a starting point for learning songs. After years of digging through "the blue book" I'm still finding new treasures at singarounds. Blessings to you for your work on RA ... a brilliant resource and fitting sequel. The third online is an inspired and intriguing idea. How about a "Great American Songbook" category? Some of these pop songs are getting close to 100 years old;I find it a fascinating trend that some of the seminal singer/songwriters from the 60s and 70s have been covering them, including Dylan and now James Taylor

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 20 - 12:28 AM

Great American Songbook? Oh, yeah!

First suggestion: Miss Otis Regrets (Cole Porter)

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 20 - 05:15 PM

The Good in Living

WHEN MCGUINESS GETS A JOB

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 20 - 12:11 AM

Row On

Innocent Hare (Copper Family)

Wedding Dress

The Last Trip Home (Davy Steele)

Dave Mallet's I Knew this Place and Summer of my Dreams.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 03 Jun 20 - 03:17 PM

Joe, please consider Ella's song. Here is a link to Sweet Honey in the rock's presentation. When I sing it, I change the opening to
"We who believe in freedom shall not rest;
We who believe in justice shall no rest until it comes."
I believe that the concepts of freedom and justice cannot be unlinked.


https://genius.com/Sweet-honey-in-the-rock-ellas-song-lyrics

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jun 20 - 03:43 PM

I love that song, too, EBarnacle....but we included it in the Rise Again Songbook.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jun 20 - 05:34 PM

The Rosabella.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jun 20 - 10:43 PM

How could we have missed Carrickfergus??

And Leadbelly's Gray Goose

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jul 20 - 10:05 PM

A classic song that works great for singarounds and pisses off the folk purists, is David Bowie's "Space Oddity."

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: JennieG
Date: 11 Jul 20 - 10:21 PM

Good timing, Joe......"Space Oddity" was released on July 11, 1969!

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Mysha
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 02:21 PM

The Great American Song Book? Several of the suggestions seem rather Old-Worldly. Is there a specific American-plus origin in mind, or should it rather be kind of a Rise Up Unlimited?

Bye
Mysha

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 04:01 PM

Rise Up Unlimited - songs that are good for singing, especially by groups. But the "Great American Songbook" songs of 1920-1950 are an interesting category that we covered quite well in the previous two books....

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jul 20 - 04:54 PM

Joe,
Going back to 17/May:
Only problem is, it's difficult to reorder threads once things have been posted - so it would be hard to have added songs in alphabetical order.
I get away with it in the BBC song book threads by opening two tabs with Mudcat, and pasting from one to the other (usually between two 'edit' boxes to retain any format).
Admittedly this loses the name/date of the original post, and the originals don't appear on lists of posted comments. The original name/date could be retained by starting each post with a copy/paste "This post was originally made by Joe Bloggs on 32nd July 2020". Obviously it still won't appear in 'joe bloggs's' list of posts, but it is identifiable. (and not so much problem if posters know in advance, like the DTStudy threads, that the discussion is open to editing actions)

Also, if I know I'm going to be shifting a good number of entries I go through first creating a sufficient number of new posts "This post deliberately blank . . ." so no-one can post something in the middle of my transfer actions.

If it involves a large number of posts you may need one or more volunteers with edit buttons. (Oops, just used the 'v' word.)

Hope this helps. I haven't sent it as a PM as others may have better solutions.

Cheers

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 04:30 AM

>>>> OK, so I'll say more about this later, but one song that has to be in the third volume of Rise Up Singing, is "Log Driver's Waltz."

As an erstwhile long distance lorry driver going back to the days before the tachograph, I'd like to see "Drivers' Log Waltz" - the book we knew as the Daily Liar.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: GUEST,Michael M
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 11:11 PM

Are you sure you don’t want to call it Up from the Mud? Seems fitting in our current morass (as opposed to less ass) as well as a It came from the Swamp echo.

Love the Great American Songbook idea although this may overlap with musical Fake Books.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 02:49 AM

Could it be that we didn't put "Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain" in the first two books? And how about Patsy Cline's "I Fall to Pieces"?

I think the goal of the "Rise" books is to present a selection of songs that people can sing together, and that they like to sing. This is infuriating to exclusionists, but such is life. These are simply enjoyable, singable songs.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: GUEST,Bradfordian
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 05:57 PM

“Want to post a list of songs?”   Here you go……
..
Guess you’ll already have a good portion of these(sorry!)
Composer or performer given in some cases (sorry again)
( and sorry for any incorrect spellings/typos— just knocked these from the top of my head) Maybe a bit of a British slant here (sorry)

Dreams.   The Cranberries
Thank you for the days.    Ray Davis
Memphis Tennessee.    Chuck Berry
When my morning comes around.   Iris DeMent
I’m going home to Georgia.   Lisa Null
After the gold rush
After the war.   Paul Gross
Anderson’s. Coast
Aragon mill.   Si Kahn
Arthur McBride
Bell book and candle.    Bo Hewerdine
Bide a while
The Garden song.   Dave Mallet
Four strong winds   Ian Tyson
Someday soon.   Ditto          “
Blue nose
Book of love.    Magnetic fields
Bread and fishes.    Alan Bell
The Brookside Richard Moncton-Milnes
Circle game    Joni Mitchell
Call and answer.    Phil Colclough
Deep blue sea
Diana.    Paul Anka
Dililah Tom Jones
Eli Jenkins Prayer. Dylan Thomas
End of the world Skeeter Davis
Everyday.   Buddy Holly
Farewell to the gold.   Paul Metzers
Farther Along
Fiddlers green.    John Connolly
Fields of Athenry
First you lose thee rhyming.   Harvey Andrews
Frobisher Bay.    James Gordon
Galway Shawl
Grey Funnel Line.   Cyril Tawney
Hard cheese of old England.
Heart like a wheel. Anna McGaragle
Heartbeat Buddy Holly
High Germany
Hold on to me babe. Tom Paxton
It doesn’t matter anymore. Buddy Holly
Keep you in peace. Sarah Morgan
Lean on me love. John Kettle/Merry Hell
Leaving Nancy.   Eric Bogle
Leaving London. Tom Paxton
Let union be in all our hearts
The Lockkeeper   Stan Rogers
Make you feel my love.   Bob Dylan
Me and the elephants. Benny Whitehead
Mr Blue Sky.   ELO
My lady of autumn. Dave Weber
My rainbow race Pete Seeger
Now that the Buffalo’s gone. Buff Ste Marie
Old Shep
One more pull. I Woods & K Stephens
Only remembered
Pack up your sorrows   R Farina
Raining in my heart. Buddy Holly
Roll on the day. Allan Taylor
The Rose.   Amanda McBroom
Row on.   Tim Laycock
Running bear. Johnny Preston
Song for Ireland
Strangest dream
Summertime blues. Eddie Cochran
Sweet rose of Allendale
Tall trees in Georgia. Buffy Ste Marie
The telling takes me home. Bruce Philips
That’ll be the day. Buddy Holly
Tom Woods
True love ways. Buddy Holly
Until it’s time for you to go. Buffy Ste Marie
Waltzing with bears
Wild colonial boy
Working man. Rita McNeil

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 06:12 PM

There are some great songs on that list, Barrie. Many of them are already in "Rise" books 1 and 2, so they won't be duplicated.

Others break a rule that Blood/Patterson didn't have for the first two books: familiarity. That being said, there are still some really great songs on your list that should be included in Rise Up Mudcat!

Another: Ae Fond Kiss, by Robert Burns

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 06:55 PM

What do you think of a section on Covid-19 parodies – or is that too narrow?

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 11:03 PM

Completely from outside the canon but the sentiment is timely: Lynyrd Skynyrd None of us are free.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 12:22 PM

I'm really enjoying the chance to see the songs that are treasures to various Mudcat gets. This thread is simply to gather ideas, so there are no restrictions on the names of songs you want to post here. I ask you not to criticize the choices people make. In the end product, the songs that are chosen we'll have to be songs that are easily sung, preferably by groups. I would hope that they would be songs that are fairly well-known. the idea is to make a third collection of songs for people to sing, rather than presenting a list of obscure songs that people may never sing.

Another category: hymns for non-believers - inspiring songs not based on religious beliefs, that everyone can sing in unity.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Mysha
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 04:10 PM

Mary Ellen Carter?

A bit to preachy for my taste, but that was his intention, I guess.


Me, I'm more the type to sing about Marie-Claire, but I guess that doesn't fit the requirement.

Bye
Mysha

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 04:26 PM

Can't say I know anything about Marie-Claire, Mysha. You certainly don't mean the fashion magazine, do you?

The Mary Ellen Carter is in Rise Up Singing and there's a spider parody in Rise Again, so you don't need to worry about that one being in Volume 3.

But do tell us about Marie-Claire songs. We could learn something.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 05:59 PM

Ten Thousand Miles
The Bay Of Biscay/Willy-o
Yorkshire Wassail
Sally Brown; Shanty
Willie O'Winsbury
Sprig Of Time
Brigg Fair
Rufford Park Poachers
What Will We Do If We Have No Money?
The Manchester Rambler; Ewan MacColl
Dirty Old Town; Ewan McColl
Thirty Foot Trailer; Ewan MacColl
Shoals Of Herring; Ewan MacColl
Never Tire Of The Road; Andy Irvine
Ruins By The Shore; Nic Jones
The Jukebox As She Turned; Jeff Deitchman
Only Remembered; John Tams
Amelia, Where you Bound To? Trad/John Tams
Bringing In the Sheaves; Jim Boyes
Unison In Harmony; Jim Boyes
Coal Not Dole; Kay Sutcliffe/John Goss
Overnight; Robb Johnson
Rosa's Lovely Daughters; Robb Johnson
The Call And The Answer; Phil and June Colclough

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 06:30 PM

"I would hope that they would be songs that are fairly well-known. the idea is to make a third collection of songs for people to sing, rather than presenting a list of obscure songs that people may never sing."

I would hope there would also be obscure songs that people would sing, if only they knew those songs existed. The great thing about the two books is that not only do they have a lot of my old favorites but that when I heard a fine song I had never heard before there was a good chance I'd find it in one of the books. I think people would like, and would want to sing, the songs I listed way back at the beginning of this thread – the singers and the songs just need to be introduced to each other.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 06:37 PM

That too, Gerry. I learned so many songs when I worked on the Rise Again Songbook and was forced to expose myself to songs I didn't know. It was good discipline, to be forced to learn something new.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Mysha
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 06:20 AM

Marie-Claire is the subject of Where do you go to, my lovely. But that's not a good song for group singing, I guess.

Bye
Mysha

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Mysha
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 02:32 PM

Hi,

Are there enough songs about disasters that are well-singable that there could be a chapter on them?

BFN
Mysha

Subject: RE: Mudcat Up Singing - a perfect songbook
From: Severn
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 03:06 PM

Have you been taking note of the sets of words that you have been fishing out and posting at the online sings? Based on the crowd reactions to some of them, it would give you a good idea what to include from what's been sung and shared.

The other day,for example, I gave you a Roud Index number on "Erin's Farewell" that ended up getting a good reaction from the assembled singers and feedback in the Zoom Room chat. I hope you are assembling a lot of such songs as you go along, especially since you have just done a lot of the research already.

Put them aside and possibly run them by Mudcat Assembled for further consideration, if you haven't already after on your own. You are acting as a collector as you are hosting, anyway.

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Mysha
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 02:37 AM

Curiously, "On Top of Spaghetti" appears to be somewhere in Rise Up Singing Again, complete with the melody being given as On Top of Old Smokey. But I can't seem to find the song itself.

Bye
Mysha

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 04:06 AM

Page 175 in Rise Up Singing, Mysha. Attributed to Tom Glazer.

Here are all the songs in the "Rise Up" books:

https://www.riseupandsing.org/songs/lists/title

Subject: RE: Rise Up Mudcat!, RUS Volume 3 (online)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Aug 20 - 02:22 PM

There are some great ideas here. Anybody want to choose a chapter and start a PermaThread? Gerry, do you want to do Australian songs? Canadian Songs? Great American Songbook? Disaster Songs? Murder Ballads?
I think we should have a chapter for building each chapter, and then a separate thread for the final edition of each chapter.
-Joe-