Foul-mouthed Folkies

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 20 - 03:02 PM

"Well I don't like to hear cursing on stage, or even on these pages. "
Youve been kicked off, so it doesn't matter what you like - sorry
Censoring words ends up with lack of vocabulary
As long as their not racist or sexist, I see no harm in them
Maybe Mudcat can adopt a 'cuttie stool' (but that was just for women, which only goes to show how two-faced some moral stances are
Jim

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 28 May 20 - 02:20 PM

Well I don't like to hear cursing on stage, or even on these pages. I think it represents a lack of vocabulary or if it is used simply as a shock tactic.....pathetic.
Connolly was a brilliant observational comedian, he was certainly not a folkie in any sense of the word. When during his transformation into a celebrity he started using foul language regularly, he lost the spark which marked him out as something special. He reckoned that its use raised his profile with people who did not understand Glasgow humour or could not empathise with the characters which he observed so keenly.

He stumbled home from Clifton Fair,
with drunken song and cheeks aglow,
but there was something in his air
which spoke of kingship long ago.
I turned and inly wept with grief,
that one so high should fall so low.

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 28 May 20 - 01:29 PM

I remember Paul Downes discussing this subject with me a few years ago.
Paul iued to reckon that audiences found Derek Brimstones cockney 'facking hell!" rarher charming.


Whereas Paul thought you could feel the audience stiffen with disapproval when Tony Capstick used the same words. Something about his northern pronunciation seemed ro upset folkies.

I suppose its a class thing.

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 20 - 12:46 PM

Sorry Kenny - I thought swearing and 'bad language' were synonymous
I live in Ireland where, not long ago the word 'bloody" would appear in the press as b*****y not too long ago - now we get the lot - the times they are a-changing
I don;'t like gratuitous profanities - is shows a lack of imagination and a waste of useful words

My favourite story
A trainee priest climbing of a stile in the grounds of his seminary, slips and falls face down in the mud
"shit", he says and then;
"Fuck, I said shit",
and then:
"Shit, I said fuck",
and finally
"Ah bollocks, I didn't want to be a priest anyway"

Hope that doesn't give offence
Jim

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 28 May 20 - 11:45 AM

I must say that I do not remember any incidences of swearing/bad language in the folk clubs during the 60s and 70s. There were plenty of B words - bloody, bugger and bastard - but NEVER the f word and definitely not the c word. These were also verboten on the TV and radio until much later - probably into the 80s and 90s. And they caused very raised eyebrows when they first started appearing. I think the folk clubs reflected society as a whole when these words first started popping up in folk clubs. Even the folk comedians were very proper in this regard - it was the alternative comedians (the Ben Elton generation) that first made it more acceptable. Billy Connolly was one of the first to use this on TV, and it was the shock of his language that probably earned him the attention he got. Apart from the fact that he was also very funny. I certainly don't remember him using any foul language in the 60s and 70s when he was in the Humblebums.

I'm not sure there is actually that much bad language in the clubs these days. On the odd occasion when somebody has used the f word on a folk festival stage, there is a collective intake of breath in the audience. People are still not that comfortable with it. Maybe it's different in other genres.

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 28 May 20 - 10:16 AM

Sure, but then there's no real consensus on what constitutes swearing is there? As a Londoner, the word 'twat' is a very mild insult; in other areas it's considered quite an offensive term.

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 28 May 20 - 08:08 AM

Shug never mentioned "bad" language. He was specifically asking about swearing on stage in folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 20 - 05:52 AM

"Bad" language is an opinion - no such thing reallyyThere is only language used badly
Jim

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Shug Hanlan
Date: 28 May 20 - 04:36 AM

Many thanks for comments. That alternative Fairport version of the Sailor's Alphabet is a hoot, but I suspect it might not go down too well with some of the Croppers crowd.

Working Men's & Social Clubs were another matter. Saw some of the most unfunny, racist, misogynist misfits at those places.

Here's Connolly talking recently about the C word, " It's not a word I usually use, especially in America, because it frightens the bejaysus out of them. Although they take "motherfucker" like nothing happened. But being Glaswegian I'm used to it. It doesn't really mean anything. You use it in all sorts of circumstances.
Like, when you're trying to remember a film star's name. People are giving you all kinds of suggestions and you say, "No, no, not him. Some other c**t." I actually heard somebody in Glasgow say,"Hey, who's that c**t with the Pope?"

Keep the cursing memories coming.

Shug

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 May 20 - 02:34 AM

That's what Edinburgh Festival Fringe comedy acts are for, isn't it?

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 27 May 20 - 09:07 PM

I remember seeing Robin and Barry Dransfield at a late night Friday folk gig at the New B'ham Rep, which began at 11pm, well after the pubs had closed, although you could still buy beer in there. Must have been in the early 70's. There was a bloke in the audience talking throughout their first few songs and Robin looked up to where he was and said to Barry, "that guy's beginning to get right on my tits". Said audience member wisely shut up!

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 27 May 20 - 07:28 AM

I suppose this qualifies:

Swarbrick and Nicol.

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 20 - 07:24 AM

Steve Earle is pretty foul mouthed.

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Nick
Date: 27 May 20 - 07:23 AM

When John Martyn was a guest at Leicester University folk club (I know he isn't folk folk but it was a folk club) many years ago I seem to remember that there was no censoring of his language going on. Probably the liberal use of stimulants might have been a contributory factor to the lack of inhibition.

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 27 May 20 - 07:17 AM

Hi Shug - there's never been much on-stage swearing at all in the Scottish folk clubs I've been to since the 1970s. It would certainly have been frowned upon by organisers at that time.
John Watt's story about the night Frank Sinatra played the Kelty Miner's Social Club [ which was hilarious ] - was the only single example of the c*** word I ever heard in all that time. "Bugger", "bastard" would occasionally turn up in the odd song, very few "f***s", although Dougie MacLean let one slip out at a big concert in The Aberdeen Music Hall, in front of the Lord Provost and his wife.
Good luck with the book.
Kenny

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 20 - 07:11 AM

fucking brilliant

Subject: RE: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 May 20 - 06:17 AM

Derek Brimstone?

I have a humorous story about swearing in folk clubs, Shug. I don't want to repeat it here, but if you PM me I'll let you have it.

Subject: Foul-mouthed Folkies
From: Shug Hanlan
Date: 27 May 20 - 04:42 AM

Been reading an article on swearing & Scottish fiction (some sad individual counted 4,000 fucks in James Kelman's "How Late It Was, How Late") as research for my Billy Connolly book. I know Connolly very seldom swore when he played the folk clubs but if he did was there a policy on swearing onstage? Be interested to know if there were/are any folk acts who curse a lot or was/is that generally frowned on?