Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp

Subject: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Kerry Harvey-Piper
Date: 27 May 20 - 08:01 AM

Hello everyone and thanks for letting me in :-)
I'm Ewan MacColl's daughter-in-law and wanted to let you know (if you don't already) that the family have set up a Bandcamp page to make Ewan's catalogue available to download. Ewan's son Calum is responsible for uploading content and it's by no means complete at the moment so please consider this a work in progress.
All the proceeds from the sale of content go directly back into the estate and help to fund both the archiving process itself and support a bursary for young musicians studying folk & traditional music at the University of Newcastle.
You can check out the page here: http://www.ewanmaccoll.bandcamp.com

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 20 - 08:11 AM

Welcome Kerry. Don't let the grumpy old men (like me) put you off :-)

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 May 20 - 10:17 AM

Being a long time Ewan and Peggy fan, I think this is a great thing for all.


Dave H

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Kerry Harvey-Piper
Date: 28 May 20 - 01:45 PM

Appreciate the welcome! If there are any specific albums that anyone would like us to upload next, let me know and I'll ask Calum to prioritise it.

Kerry

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Charmion
Date: 29 May 20 - 09:10 AM

Kerry, I would love to see "Bless 'Em All", "Street Songs of Scotland" and ""Songs of Two Rebellions" if they aren't already there.

Sometimes I think "Bless 'Em All" made me the woman I am today.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 May 20 - 09:36 AM

Dare I suggest that, should anybody be looking for any Ewan album, including those mentioned here, I would be more than happy to let anybody have copies
I knwe Ewan for long enough and was a recipient of his generosity, to belive he would be delighted that they were still being passed around
I now have all but one of his albums and am hoping that some kind soul will let me have the Topic singles some-time
PM me
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 May 20 - 02:43 AM

I think it would be better to pay for the download and "help to fund both the archiving process itself and support a bursary for young musicians studying folk & traditional music at the University of Newcastle". Just my opinion of course but I would be happier acquiring a copy legally too. Maybe I am just too honest!

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 20 - 03:12 AM

I hadn't realised that's what it did and considering the small number of folk albums on the site, I very much doubt if that amounts to much Dave
There have been enough complaints about the quality of the recordings and the lack of notes of the products from this commercial company to make me feel that I would rather people got the bast of what was on offer and be content that my own contribution to folk song made my efforts worth while
My opinion, of course
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 May 20 - 03:55 AM

How about if everyone who got a copy off you, Jim, was to make a donation to either Kerry, for the estate, or directly to a fund for archiving and to help young musicians?

What do you think, Kerry?

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 20 - 04:40 AM

Everybody won't - Most of the Ewan albums in our archive are totally unobtainable anyway
I give the BBC collection away as well - should I direct them to Kennedy's company for what little they have to offer ?
I suggest that the pittance Newcastle gets measures pretty small to the amount available in bot enjoyment and in knowledge to be had from out MacColl archive
Maybe I should start selling that and make a donation to Oxfam ?
Waddya think ?
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 May 20 - 07:49 AM

Up to you, Jim. I personally wouldn't advertise the fact that I was giving something away free on a thread created by someone with a vested interest in selling the same stuff! You're a braver man than me!

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 20 - 08:17 AM

It is Dave
If, at the very least, it makes the company review their quality policy, if would have achieved something
There are so few people involved here that it can't possibly make a difference to a company involved in the distribution of a few folk albums that most people wouldn't buy anyway - I was under the impression you have given that you wouldn't cross the road to obtain a Ewan album
I regard people who take up my offer either friends or fellow enthusiasts - have you never loaned or dubbed off an easily obtainable album for a friend?
I think you're on your own if you haven't
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 May 20 - 01:47 PM

I was under the impression you have given that you wouldn't cross the road to obtain a Ewan album

What on earth would make you think that? I like MacColl. Both his song writing and his singing skills. Although I readily admit that I don't go out of my way to get any album nowadays. Being a 21st century type person I stream everything and, yes, I do pay for Spotify. Funnily enough I was listening to Ewan MacColl and Bob Dylan back to back only the other day. I'm eclectic if nothing else :-)

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 May 20 - 02:12 PM

I would think Jim that as Kerry Harvey MacColl has posted on here she is trying to promote the website were the material is sold.

Note that word, sold, in order to make money for the estate of MacColl.

You giving away the same material is denying the estate the opportunity to benefit from his writing.

Out of order I would say.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 May 20 - 03:22 PM

"MacColl has posted on here she is trying to promote the website were the material is sold."
Maybe becaise there is nowhere else - it doesn't make any difference to the criticisms being made of the products
"You giving away the same material is denying the estate the opportunity to benefit from his writing."
I'm confused - I was told that the proceeds were to help Necasle Folk Course
I'm very mixed about families benefiting from the work of their parents as creative artists - there have been horrendous examples of families putting their own interests first rather than let u all benefit from family members art
I am not saying that is the case with the MacColl family - I know it not to be the case
The few albums I would pass on is hardly going to make a dent in their lives - on the contrary - I am in a far better position to promote Ewan and Peggy's work that Bandcamp would ever want to be - I have devoted many years to trying to do so

Let's be clear about some of these albums   
Pat and I sang chorused on one of them - we were never paid and would happily donated towards the privilege of singing with Ewan, Peggy, Kirsty, Calum and Neil - and then having the added bonus of bein introduced to Pete and Toshi the same day - jaysus - I still can't believe that
The two 'Second Crop' albums were found because I brought the fact that they were recorded and then 'lost' - one of the family finally succeeded   in finding them where I have failed.
I'm hoping they find the final ballad lecture to top off the series
When they were issued there were no notes - a made contribution to the Long Harvest Series which, in my opinion, made it as uniquely groundbreaking as was the Riverside Series
I didn't expect any of the family to provide notes - they have their own lives and only Peggy has the knowledge to come anywhere near to being able to do so, so earlier this year I spent a couple of months researching and annotating all the songs, based where possible on Ewan and Peggy's previous writing - then transcribing the texts
I then designed two album covers to match those of the est of the set, using illustrations similar to the rest of the set (based on illustrations used by Ewan and Peg for their personal bookplates)
I've made a damned good job of it, if I say so myself)
I haven't passively lifted their work
I said earlier that I believe Ewan would not have greatly objected to what I'm doing - he and Peggy gave me my "pass it on" outlook to life

Onver a year ago we were approached by Calum and asked if we had any live recordings of Ewan for a set of five CDs - we obliges by sneding a batch and five songs were selected
Thew set hasn't appeared so fat - I don't know if it ever shall - but we will expect no remuneration for our efforts - a free set would be nice but not an obligation!
We have an entire archive devoted to Ewan here - including a series of interviews of him that took over a year to complete - the family will get that and the many years of work I have personally crried out on The Critics Group recordings, all the articlaee and lectures I caul lay my nads on, Rdio pregrammes seminars he has given and masses of information on his work and ideas that I shve shed blood trying to get discussed on this friggin' forum
Now, all of a sudden, you people who would rather discuss his politics of 80 years ago . his name change, his right to sing in his family's accent.... and all the other shit that has prevented a serious discussion on Ewan as a creative artist - are busing a gut worring about a few quid I might be depriving his famliy of by giving away albums that have long been unavailable to the general public - give us a break lads
The only thing that worries in all this is I might be helping to preserve some of the albums Ewan couldn't bear to listen to himself - but I'm sure very great artist had similar qualms
Its a bloody shame you people weren't around when Ewan was being dug up regularly and given a ritual kicking by lasser performers (usually because they were lesser performers)   
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 May 20 - 04:32 PM

Kerry quite clearly states that SOME of the income would used to create an archive and help finance a bursary for a young student.

Whether you like it or not MacColl's family have the rights to his material. Whether you agree with this or not matters not one jot.

Basically what you are doing amounts to theft.

Full stop.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 May 20 - 04:34 PM

Its a bloody shame you people weren't around when Ewan was being dug up regularly

Just who are you referring to, Jim?

I must say that your passion in the subject is commendable but it does raise some hilarious phrases at times

I caul lay my nads on

Just how many people will admit to laying their nads on anything? :-)

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 06:47 AM

I've made my reasons for doing what I do quite clear - If the MacColl family wish to discuss it with me they are welcome to do so - they have my number
For a couple of people who have shown little respect for Ewan in the past an, on occasion, for the future of the traditional songs Ewan and Peggy devoted their lives for passing on, I can only say, I wish you'd put a fraction of our time in doing similar as you have trying to persuade me not to make available largely unavailably albums in useful formats rather that noteless soundfiles
I'll put you on my extremely small 'never offer them anything' list
Maybe you should grass me up to PRS or Imro
I do what I do for why I've explained I do it
"Theft" would not be out of place on Question Time next to "class envy" - very Conservative
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 06:53 AM

Incidentally
I gave an entire cope of our Singers Workshop Archive to Sandra Kerr for the use of her students on the Newcastle University course and I sold my Wheatsone Concertina to one of her students for half the price it was worth to one of her students after having been offered its full value by someone on on Mudcat
Stuff your insulting accusation of "theft" Rag - I expected more of you
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 May 20 - 06:55 AM

I see we are back to the 2 rule system Jim. Just in case you have forgotten them they are:

Rule 1. Jim is always right.

Rule 2. If Jim is wrong Rule 1 applies.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 07:05 AM

I see you've stopped responding to arguments and reverting to accusations
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 07:12 AM

I think we're finished here lads
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 20 - 07:19 AM

Oh, I dunno, Jim. Seems to me that keeping the thread alive helps to make money for the estate. Surely that is something that we should all subscribe to.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 07:45 AM

Snide again Dave
It's a largely pop music site, therefore profit orientated, like PRS, the money going to the eastate from - what - half a dozen copies of albums I give way free amounts to - what do you reckon ?
I'd have loved thi level of effort from you when I was battling to get Ewan recognised and discussed as a serious artist - you must have been in hibernation all those years
Now you're reducing his worth to a few quid
Ah well
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 May 20 - 08:05 AM

The facts are Jim that the estate owns the copyright to all of MacColl's writings.

You do not.

By giving away copyright material you are denying the family the income from that material.

It does not matter if it is one bootleg recording or "half a dozen". If I gave away "half a dozen" and Dave gave away "half a dozen" and those people we gave them to gave away "half a dozen"

See where we going with this...…….?

What you are doing is tantamount to theft and theft from the family of a man you claim to hold in such high esteem.

Yeah right.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: GUEST,Roderick A. Warner
Date: 31 May 20 - 08:42 AM

Despite the negative comments from the resident McColl stan, Bandcamp is far from being a pop music site, whatever that might be. It’s a platform for many creative musicians across the genres and clumsy labelling where they can get their music out in their chosen formats to a wider audience than would have been possible otherwise. Especially helpful to younger musicians. Bandcamp take 15% after sales - a reasonable deal, imo. I’ve scanned through the McColl site and had a listen but he’s never been a favourite of mine anyway. Interesting, his voice is better than I remember but Peggy Seeger has always grated on me and her accompaniments always seemed clunky and old-fashioned fifty years ago. But others will disagree, which is their privilege. Point being, I had the chance to listen. Bandcamp have been donating their cut on selected days as a gesture for musicians due to the current crisis. Next one is next Friday 5th so old fashioned ideologists can rest easy that they won’t be supporting whatever enemy they see in buying anything from the site and all the money will go to the musicians/labels etc for disposal as they see fit. All others, fill your boots, as the saying goes... and check out some of the vast amount of music available...

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 08:54 AM

Ho hum
What you are doing is limiting the dissemination of Ewan's songs to a wider audience by allowing a commercial company to hang a price tag on it
I've just checked - to purchase a copy of the single album (with notes notes) 'Second Crop' costs £10 - that's pretty expensive by anybody's money for an on-line download
Musical traditions downloads with the option of scanning in a full set of notes - £1 oe £2 a single album, £4 a double album, £6 a three album set
£10 a single album is pretty steep and hardly conducive to attracting new people to Ewan's music
I hope that a great deal of mastering has gone into the old recordings for sale
Out of interest, how much did you pay for your copy of Second Shift or is your concern for Ewan and his family merely rhetorical ?
I don't suppose you're interested in how much time, sweat and personal sacrifice the people we worked with put into putting this sharing project together

If the family are concerned at what I am doing, I hope they will complain to me
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 20 - 08:56 AM

I did not comment on the Bandcamp site, Jim. My exact words were "keeping the thread alive helps to make money for the estate". How is that either a bad thing or "snide"? I repeat, surely we can all agree that keeping the MacColl estate fluid is a good thing.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Lighter
Date: 31 May 20 - 08:59 AM

In a less partisan vein, I found I could purchase individual tracks only when, almost by accident, I clicked on a sample and saw the magic words appear
To the untrained eye, it looks like every album is table d'hote, take it or leave it.

Somebody needs to fix that. It might be more profitable in every way for everybody

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 20 - 09:03 AM

No one is limiting anything, Jim. There is Bandcamp and there is your archive. They have widened the scope to people who are not aware of you. I guess there may be one or two of those. My only point was that you are a brave man advertising a free download for material still in copyright. I hope you continue to do it for a long time to come and that the lawyers don't notice!

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 May 20 - 09:06 AM

You're wasting your time Dave, as am I. The two rule system is in full operation.

If Jim says it's alright to defraud the estate of a man he claims to hold in such high esteem then it must be so.

High esteem my arse. "oh yeah I esteem him but it doesn't stop me ripping him off"

If that is what he calls esteem it doesn't go anywhere matching my version of esteem.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 10:09 AM

I should have finished this while thre was a modicum of respect left between us - I'm truly sorry I didn't
Will do now
Jim

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 May 20 - 10:28 AM

If by respect you mean like your your respect for MacColl I can well do without it thanks. I certainly won't lose any sleep over it.

Frankly you are a disgrace to be defrauding his estate.

Subject: RE: Ewan MacColl on Bandcamp
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 10:40 AM

Peggy is weel aware of the type of thing I have always done
Now you are just being truculently spiteful
Over and out
Stay safe
Jim