Lyr Req: a Breton song recorded by Alan Stivell

Subject: stivell/breton song
From:
Date: 17 Nov 96 - 06:44 PM

I'm looking for a song recorded by Alan Stivell (maybe on "jounree a la maison") and by some others (I heard it on "thistle & "Journee a la maison") and by some others (I've heard it on "Thistle & Shamrock). It might be called "AN NIGHEAN DUBH BH" and it sounds a little like this: Yanin su kalishan yintu Yu weil yase vaten Yanin su kalishan yintu Yanin su kalishan grueg enino bigel suena hapek I would be very grateful for any help on the lyricsa and meaning of the song meaning of the song. Thanks

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From:
Date: 01 Sep 01 - 03:25 PM

Looks more Gaelic to me.

Perhaps ..... Dheanainn thu caileagan?

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Sep 01 - 04:02 PM

Here is the track listing from Journee:

--- _Un Dewezh barzh ger (Journee a la maison)_ [also called _A Home- coming_] was released by Keltia III in 1978. It contains ten songs: "Trinquons nos verres," Ar wezenn awalou," "Henchou kuzh," "Tambud Kemper," "Warlec'h koan," "An tri marrak," "'Tal an tan," "An nighean dubh," "Slan Chearbhallain (O'Carolan's Farewell)," and "Insi Hanternos."

Looks to me like the language is Breton--and the tune might be Slan Chearbhallain (O'Carolan's Farewell) which is not hard to find........

Subject: Lyr Add:An Nighean Dubh
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Sep 01 - 04:07 PM

I'll be darned--not Farewell! Here it is, I think:

This song is a bit of a mystery to me, in more ways than one: some claim that it is a waulking song from Uist or Barra in the Hebrides. "Waulking" is where a length of cloth (usually tweed) is dampened and fulled in order to soften it after weaving. This task was only done by women in Scotland, and in many places it was quite the social occasion where everyone joined in and songs were made up to make the task go faster, as with old sea chanties.

Often waulking songs were adapted from other songs. Frequently they told of local gossip, and the material was not usually "highbrow". Others say it is a iorran, a rowing song, and given the lyrics, this seems more likely. The title, like the rest of the song, is in Gaelic and means "the dark-haired maiden"-

I played with the girl with the black hair
In the morning when I awoke
I played with the young virgin
When the others were still asleep.
I played when we awoke
When the sails were unfurled,
One Monday, after the day of our Lord,
We left the Orkneys on the Seonaid.
The green billows rolled over her prow.
How she fought the cavern of the waves!
Gamboling between the reefs, eluding the sand bars,
She plowed through the sea which battered her sides,
Hooting and hissing.
We had to chain ourselves to the door
Before the straits of Rome.
We outsailed the French Pass
Led by the winds, tiller firmly in hand
But we kept not one rope
On board for the road of return.

From here, which is
http://www.celticnots.com/music/annighean.html

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From: Peg
Date: 01 Sep 01 - 10:24 PM

I would guess the album cut you heard is "A L'Olympia"

It is from the 1970s and very hard to find; good luck! I am looking for it myself!

I have a friend who studies Breton language who sings one of the songs on the album.

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 02 Sep 01 - 12:45 AM

If it's on A l'olympia, I have a copy of it. E-mail me at [e-mail] and I'll make a tape copy for you (as long as it's hard to find and out of print).

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From:
Date: 02 Sep 01 - 01:22 AM

An Nighean Dubh is the title of several Scottish Gaelic songs. The Barra MacNeils sing one of them, the one called Mo Nighean Dubh. This song doesn't have any line which would sound like that.

HAve to do more research.

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From:
Date: 02 Sep 01 - 02:02 AM

It might be the waulking song Dheanainn Sugradh Ris An Nighean Dubh. That link takes you to a Clannad lyrics page for Dheanainn Sugradh. They have both the Scottish Gaelic and Irish there. The first line SEEMS close to what his phonetics are for that mysterious first line.

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From: Peg
Date: 02 Sep 01 - 10:05 AM

Phil; I would LOVE a tape copy! I will email you; do start thinking about what I can give you in return.

Peg

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From: John P
Date: 02 Sep 01 - 12:32 PM

The Olympia Concert is currently available on CD. Please don't make tape copies of it. I think I got my copy at Dusty Strings in Seattle (I work there). I don't know if it is there now. It may also be available through Roots and Rythym in California. I also imagine that Dick at Camsco can get a copy. If nothing else, the record company on the CD is:
Disques Dreyfus
26 av. Kleber
75116 Paris, France

I have "An Nighean Dubh" on two different old vinyl Stivell albums, "Journee a la Maison" and "3rd Live International Tour". Journee a la Maison is out on CD, not sure about the other. The song is listed as a Scottish traditional waulking song, with the title in English being "The Black Haired Girl". I found a website with the Gaelic words here.

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From:
Date: 02 Sep 01 - 04:07 PM

John P,
Thanks for the plug, but no, that's not it. The song you've linked to is actually a love song, but not a waulking song.

We'll locate it I'm sure. Just more research.

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From: John P
Date: 02 Sep 01 - 04:48 PM

Hmm, George, the Stivell album lists the English title as "The Black Haired Girl" and the song on your site is called "My Black Haired Maid". That's why I thought they were the same song. Must just be two songs with the same titles. I just listened to the Stivell recordings and can't make out the words at all, but then I know nothing about either Gaelic or Breton. Certainly nothing he was saying looked anything like the printed words to my ignorant eye. I generally don't find it to be one of his stronger musical or vocal efforts.

JP

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Sep 01 - 08:23 PM

As George mentioned earlier, there are a lot of Gaelic songs about dark-haired girls.  This one is not on À l'Olympia.  Stivell, with all due respect, could at that time barely pronounce Breton lyrics, let alone Gaelic or English.  I still quote his "phantom sheep on high seas" to people who believe that they can sing a song in a language they don't understand without running a serious risk of sounding ridiculous.

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From:
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 08:36 PM

Looking at the lyrics of Dheanainn Sugradh, looks close. They mention the French Narrows and Roman Narrows.

Subject: RE: stivell/breton song
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 16 Sep 01 - 09:15 PM

John P. Don't worry, I wouldn't make a copy of a recording that's in print.

Subject: Lyr Req: Lyr Req: Breton song rec by Alan Stivell
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Jan 12 - 01:01 PM

I tried to post this to the thread that showed a few minutes ago.

1) Post wouldn't take after four attempts
2) Can't even SEE the thread which dated back 10 years

SO, here's the post I had for that thread, wherever it is.

##############################

From

http://www.omniglot.com/songs/gaelic/dheanainn_sugradh.php

#############################################

Dheanainn Sùgradh (The Dark-haired Girl)

This a 'waulking' song (òran-luadhaidh) from Scotland.

Dheanainn Sùgradh
Sèist
Dheannain sùgradh ris a nighean duibh
N' deidh dhomh eirigh as a 'mhadainn
Dheannain sùgradh ris a nighean duibh

Dheannain sùgradh ris a'ghruagaich
'Nuair a bhiodh a' sluagh nan codal

sèist

Dheannain sùgradh an àm dùsgaidh
'N àm na siùil a bhith 'gam pasgadh

sèist

Di-Luain an dèidh Di-dòmhnaich
Dh'fhalbh sinn le Seonaid a Aircaibh

sèist

Riof 'gha ceangal 's riof 'gha fuasgladh
muir ma guallain fuaim is fead oirr

sèist


Null ma Chaolas na Ròimh
b'fheudar dhuinn am bòm a leaiseadh

sèist


Null ma chaolas na Fraing
Maide 'na làimh is gaoth 'gha greasadh

sèist

Dh'fheumadh pòrsan thigh 'nn à bùth dhith
Ged a bhiodh e crùn an cairteal

sèist

Ged a bhiodh e crùn an óirleach
Dh'fheumadh pòrsan dheith thigh 'nn dhachaidh

sèist

The Dark-haired Girl
Chorus
I played with the young dark-haired girl
When I woke in the morning
I played with the young dark-haired girl

I played with the long-haired girl
When everyone was asleep

chorus

I played when we woke
And when the sails were unfurled

chorus

On Monday, after Sunday
We left the Orkneys on the Seonaid

chorus

Reefs taken in and reefs shaken
Waves under her bow, and her booming and whistling

chorus

Across the straits of Rome
We had to keep a tight grip on the boom

chorus

Across the narrow waters of France
She was under control and the wind driving us

chorus

She wouldn't want a gift from a market
If a crown was her share

chorus

Even if it were a crown of gold
She wouldn't want a gift brought home to her

chorus

##################################################

This song can be heard on the following albums:

Silver Sea ~ Méav (Ní Mhaolchatha)
Clannad Vol. 2 ~ Clannad
An Iomall ~ Alyth McCormack

##################################################

Links

Different versions of this song:

http://www.celticlyricscorner.net/meav/dark.htm
http://www.celticlyricscorner.net/clannad/dheanainn.htm
http://www.celticlyricscorner.net/mccormack/dheannain.htm

---

Transferred in. -Mod

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: a Breton song recorded by Alan Stivell
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 07 Jan 12 - 03:08 PM

Have a look here for the real thing:

http://www.musicscotland.com/cd/vol-2-music-from-western-isles-gaelic.html

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: a Breton song recorded by Alan Stivell
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 19 - 07:26 AM

Interesting to read some of the comments her...At the time of the Olympia, "Stivell could barely pronounce Breton lyrics..." I don't know where this comes from but it is worth noticing that Stivell was born in 1944 and consequently at a time when Breton language was not taught at all at school. Right after the second world war, on the basis that some folks among the Breton organizations had collaborated with the Nazis, anything connected with Breton or Celtic culture was seen as suspicious. Like many others, Stivell had to make the effort of learning Breton when he was older, through various courses and teaching books. In 1972,the breton he would sing was the result of this complex situation. Also, it has to be known that Breton language was not a single entity, but a collection of dialects which could be very different from one region to another: people who would speak "Vannetais" (from the Vannes area) would not always understand an other Breton person from say, the Tregor area. Further more, many of the folks who would speak Breton at the time of Stivell's youth would have learned it from the family, not in a rational way throught scholl and teachers. Saying that Stivell was barely able to pronounce Breton in 1972 seems to me grossly unfair. The Breton which is now taught in schools like "Diwan" in Brittany is a language which tries to be a amalgam of the various aspects of the language spoken through the country. To sum up, it is a bit of a reconstruct Breton, and consequently it would sometimes sound odd to a person of 70 who has been used to a a language taught by ears when he/she was a young person. Stivell explains that sometimes he would sing a song with the accent of a particular region, and the next one with another accent. and regarding the Gaelic language, he never said he would sing in Gaelic with a perfect accent and pronounce,since Gaelic is notoriously complex to learn.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: a Breton song recorded by Alan Stivell
From: Helen
Date: 26 Oct 19 - 03:29 PM

Thank you, Guest, for adding that information about the Breton language. I have a few of Stivell's albums, but I know nothing about the Breton language.

In Australia, our indigenous people are in a similar situation where the languages of their different countries are very close to being lost but there are people trying to keep the languages alive and revived within their cultural traditions.

Alain Stivell's music inspired me to try to learn the harp, which I've been trying to do for about 40 years. I'm getting there.