BS: Beards and PPE Masks

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: JHW
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 05:01 PM

'It is critical to emphasize that maintaining 6-feet social distancing remains important to slowing the spread of the virus.'

But some are trying to persuade us now that less separation will do but wear a mask.

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 06:08 PM

We're now being fobbed of with a potentially deadly placebo
of masks versus safe social distancing...

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: JeffB
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 06:35 PM

SRS - Thanks for your response but I'm not sure what you are getting at. As far as I can see, there is nothing in my post which contradicts yours. If there is, I'm sorry to say I'm missing it, so perhaps you could point it out and I will reply if I can, or apologise if I need to.

I should say though that it was not my intention to deliver a "vote of no-confidence" per se. In a situation like this there is likely to be a lot of misinformaton circulating, or at least a great many misconceptions, and I only intended to present some facts as opposed to opinions. Only evidence-based strategies will have any affect on the spread of Covid-19.

I note that the CDC (sorry, don't know who or what that is) says "cloth face coverings may slow the spread of the virus". I would put a lot of emphasis on "may", and suggest that this sort of advice is designed more to allay fears than actually do anything useful. I posted "If you can feel your breath on the other side of it [a cotton mask]then you are still breathing bugs into the atmosphere." Do you have a criticism of that, or can you refute it?

Note: CDC says "Cloth face coverings are NOT surgical masks". Surgical masks (I called them hospital-grade masks) ARE designed to prevent the spread of bacteria (but not necessarily viruses - it's very important to realise that bacteria and viruses are completely different). I don't know whether the average surgical mask will stop Covid-19 spreading from someone's nose or mouth, and I don't know if anyone else does either. Viruses are all unbelieveably tiny, but nevertheless some are much bigger than others. I have to admit that I don't know where Covid-19 comes on this scale. If you can give me some relevant information on that I would be grateful. But if a surgical mask doesn't stop a virus, what use do you think a cloth mask would be?

Let me put it this way. Imagine you are shrunk to microscopic size. You see a mesh the size of a garden trellis. This is the filter in a surgical mask. Something the size of a pidgeon flies into it and gets stuck. This is a bacterium. Then something the size of a bee buzzes straight through. This is a virus, perhaps a Covid-19 virus. But a cloth mask isn't even designed to stop a bacterium. Actually, I don't think it's designed for anything other than making people feel better.

My background is 25+ years as a NHS healthcare professional. NHS means the British National Health Service, and I assure you that neither I nor the NHS take no notice of anything Mr Trump might pronounce upon.

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 07:39 PM

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control.

Your opinion and discussion of the failings of cotton cloth masks ignores that fact that they are better than nothing and in many cases much better than nothing. Your dismissal of the cotton masks was opinion-based with no evidence, and the medical mask information offered was irrelevant since we have been told to leave the medical masks for medical professionals, so it was dismissed.

If indeed you're a health professional, then act like one. Understand that people taking actions to protect themselves (maintaining a distance and washing their hands) and others (wearing a mask so should they have the virus they're less likely to disperse droplets that could contain the virus) are better than listening to you whine about how every thing we might do is doomed to failure. Pull up your socks, put on your cotton mask, and move along unless you're here to be helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 08:33 PM

Er, don't let things get too black and white here, Maggie. It isn't actually a fact that all the kinds of masks people don are "better then nothing." We simply don't know that. At university in the late sixties we were told that part of the definition of a virus is that it's a non-filterable particle. Masks aren't there to filter viruses. They are there to apprise the public of the dangers.

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 09:15 PM

I'll play safer by presuming the greater British public are too dim
to be trusted
to wear any face coverings responsibly and safely enough for my protection...

It'll only give too many of them a false sense of security,
and increase their liability to carelessly spread pandemic,
while they are herded closer together in public
for the benefit of retail and hospitality business share holders...

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 09:27 PM

.. then add mass binge drinking in British towns and cities
to this deadly public health and safety cocktail...

Good luck getting them to even remember to wash their hands,
let alone recall if they didn't put their masks on back to font
after already dribbling saliva and snot over the material
all the time they were worn on public transport out to the pubs...

Maybe folks are more intelligent and responsible in America...???

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 12:33 AM

They serve as a reminder to keep your distance, they stop the spread of cough or sneeze droplets, they do many things that I'd rather people pay attention to than dismiss because they've been told that might not be correct by people who aren't scientists. I listened to scientists and physicians and decided to wear a mask, as do friends and family.

The numbers are climbing rapidly in several states, Texas included. States with high-ranking elected officials who dismiss the science are most heavily affected now. There is a correlation that can be made.

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 01:07 AM

It generally isn't the scientists and physicians dismissing homemade masks. It's the non-scientific skeptics.

Unsure About Actually Wearing a Face Mask? Here’s How (and Why) to Do It is from the Cleveland Clinic, a well-respected research institution in the US.

If you take nothing else away from this,

“The coronavirus can spread among people who are less than 6 feet apart, whether that’s by talking to one another, coughing or sneezing,” Dr. Hamilton explains. “This holds true even if none of those people notice symptoms commonly reported with COVID-19, like fever, shortness of breath or coughing.”


Dr. Hamilton says a cloth mask will not prevent you from breathing in respiratory droplets that carry a virus, like COVID-19. But it will help to protect others from you if you happen to be infected, with or without symptoms. Furthermore, cloth masks help to reinforce social distancing and good cough etiquette, which ultimately will help to slow how far the virus spreads.

Cloth masks can also prevent you from touching your face, and can be a visual reminder to practice social distancing, Dr. Hamilton adds.

No one has said they completely prevent COVID-19, but they affect our behavior to help avoid it, they may slow it down, and they serve as important reminders on several levels.

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 11:54 AM

Sure, the science says that a mask will stop droplets. But they won't stop virus particles during ordinary breathing from being either inhaled or exhaled. A mask man enough to do that would suffocate you within minutes. Whilst not exactly science, and touching on a point Jeff makes, it's a very common perception here that people wearing masks are far more likely to breach the two-metre rule. For my sins I have to pay too-frequent visits to supermarkets to shop both for us and for others, and mask-wearers here in Bude are far more likely to reach across you, scoot or even brush past you in narrow aisles and block the aisles with their trolleys, provoking frustrated fellow customers into passing close. Naturally, I can't prove it. It seems to me that mask-wearers enjoy a false sense of security, some of them. In view of the fact that viruses CAN pass through masks, this behaviour would seem to negate somewhat any advantage that masks provide. This post is full of caveats, but you can still shoot if you like.

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 12:00 PM

Some may scold me for my objective view that the mass British public
tend to be selfish and dim..

But I can easily imagine our young adults buying fancy trendy design masks,
then casually swapping them around, trying on wearing each other's masks for selfies...

Subject: RE: BS: Beards and PPE Masks
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 01:29 PM

JeffB, you're offering a huge amount of misinformation and character assassination on a thread that is discussing the wearing of face masks with beards and have worn out your welcome.