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BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Apr 21 - 10:32 AM You deleted my post which corrected an inaccuracy in a polite manner, then perpetuate the same inaccuracy yourself. This is not my opinion, so let me quote from Star Tribune: Chauvin faces three charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. Here's what you need to know about the charges and what prosecutors must prove in order to convict Chauvin. What is second-degree unintentional murder? For a conviction of second-degree unintentional murder, the state's prosecutors must show beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd's death while assaulting him. This is the most serious charge and carries a presumed sentence in this case of 12 1/2 years, according to state sentencing guidelines. However, prosecutors have said they plan to seek an aggravated sentence for Chauvin above recommended guidelines because of the "particular cruelty" shown to Floyd. What will not be an issue: whether Chauvin intended to kill Floyd. None of the charges require prosecutors to prove the former officer was trying to kill him. We've had several visceral reactions in this thread to the horror perpetrated by Chauvin. It could be that I share those reactions myself but I have simply stated what the court's remit was - and what it wasn't. There are plenty of sources which will corroborate my assertion that the intention to kill was not tested in the court, not even apropos of the most serious of the three charges. Please check them out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 21 Apr 21 - 10:12 AM Yes, it is. From an online article: Here are the three charges Derek Chauvin was found guilty on and the maximum sentences for each :
What happens next with sentencing? Who makes the final call? Since the verdict has been read by Judge Cahill, it will now head to sentencing. Prosecutors with the state are asking for a longer sentence, known as an "upward sentencing departure" due to "aggravating factors". Those factors include :
Minnesota uses sentencing guidelines, which means that for someone with no prior convictions like Chauvin, the recommendation is only 12.5 years for each murder charge, as well as four years for manslaughter. Even though Chauvin is convicted of more than one count, according to Minnesota law, he only serves a sentence for the most severe charge. If Judge Cahill follows the Minnesota state guidelines, Chauvin would serve just that 12.5-year sentence. Prosecutors in the case are seeking a longer sentence than the 12.5 years, referencing those "aggravated factors" mentioned above. But it's up to Judge Cahill to decide if those factors exist, and if he will go above the state recommended guidelines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 21 Apr 21 - 07:26 AM Intentionality is part of what the jury had to decide on 2nd segree murder asI have been saying for weeks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 21 Apr 21 - 07:18 AM when somthing goes right I'ts bouund to confuse me its such an unusual sight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 21 Apr 21 - 05:47 AM Meanwhile in Australia a (right wing) state Police Minister tells a TV show “We don’t have a race problem here in Australia” when there are stories about (Australian) Black Deaths in Custody all over the news & they have been there for decades. 30 years ago a Royal Commission concerning 99 Black Deaths in Custody made recommendations, most of these have not been acted on. Families, politicians say not enough has changed 30 years on 450 more people have died in custody across Australia since. Indigenous Australians are about 3% of the population & make up about 27% of prison populations. Many deaths come about because the prisoner didn't get medical help in time or at all. Said Police Minister was objecting to "left-wing teachers out there acting racist themselves by saying white lives don’t matter" read on What the George Floyd verdict means for Australia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: punkfolkrocker Date: 21 Apr 21 - 12:30 AM It's blatantly obvious this cop is at very least a sadist. Karma = he'll need eyes in the back of his head in prison.. Even if white supremacist gang inmate fanboys, impressed by his celebrity notoriety, rally round as his bodyguards... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- If he hadn't been a cop, but just a street bully thug armed with a gun: would concerned bystanders have been legally justified to shoot him in order to save Floyd's life...??? ,, or at least rush from all sides and render him 'neutrakized' with any improvised weapons at hand...??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Apr 21 - 09:20 PM He can rot in hell. There is every possibility that the sentence might be too light - I don't think one can be too long. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Apr 21 - 08:06 PM Well we can all have opinions about that horrid nine minutes, but I can only go from what the jury was asked to consider. First-degree murder was not on the charge sheet, and the strongest charge was unintentional second-degree murder. I worry that the talked-up expectation of forty years, if not met, will lead to unrest. Alternatively, that a too-severe sentence may be given under some pressure because of that talking-up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Helen Date: 20 Apr 21 - 08:03 PM Scroll down this page to see the following explanation of the three charges: How the three charges work "But basically, the charges all covered different legal definitions of what happened in the murder of George Floyd. They didn't work in an escalating way, like there were backups if the most serious ones failed. It was always possible that Chauvin could have been found guilty of all, some or none of the charges. "As this CNN breakdown explains, , where the charges differed was how they interpreted Chauvin's state of mind at the time of the murder. "The third-degree murder charge alleged that Chauvin had a "depraved mind, without regard for human life". The second-degree unintentional murder charge asked the jury to consider that Chauvin killed Floyd while trying to apply unlawful force to him (they didn't have to consider whether Chauvin intended to kill Floyd). And the second-degree manslaughter charge alleged that Chauvin caused Floyd's death through "culpable negligence", by not doing things like putting Floyd in the recovery position or providing medical care for Floyd before paramedics arrived." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Jeri Date: 20 Apr 21 - 07:46 PM It sounded like something changed while Chauvin's knee was on Floyds neck, and people (bystanders, and at least one cop) were telling him to stop, and Floyd said he couldn't breathe. I think he decided to push it until Floyd died. I think he KNEW he was killing Floyd. I think that when it was reported Floyd had no pulse, and Chauvin failed to do CPR on him as he was trained to do, he wanted Floyd to be dead. But my belief doesn't matter. I also think 40 years isn't too much. In my opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Steve Shaw Date: 20 Apr 21 - 07:12 PM I'm bothered by the fact that the jury did not have to consider whether the killing was intentional. I have a feeling that if that had been on the charge sheet the jury might have had more difficulty. There's been much talk of forty years. I hope that that doesn't drive towards a sentence that is too severe. As first-degree murder was not considered, a too-severe sentence is entirely possible. Justice will be done not by putting a man away for forty years for a killing not proven to have been intentional. It will be served by a massive effort to rid your police of what looks, from this distance, to be its rotten culture. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 20 Apr 21 - 06:36 PM And today is only Tuesday. They may have packed for a long stay in the sequester hotel, but the jury took care of business quickly. Hopefully this is the end of it; no need for the national guard anywhere. Just over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Mrrzy Date: 20 Apr 21 - 05:44 PM Well good |
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Subject: Derek Chauvin found guilty of all three charges From: Helen Date: 20 Apr 21 - 05:24 PM Derek Chauvin found guilty of all three charges |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Helen Date: 20 Apr 21 - 04:36 PM Waiting for the verdict to be announced. Floyd family 'calling for peace and tranquillity', says Biden, as Chauvin jury reaches verdict |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 23 Sep 20 - 05:42 PM Oh, let's go Steve walks warily down the street With the brim pulled way down low Ain't no sound but the sound of his feet Police guns ready to go Are you ready, hey, are you ready for this? Are you hanging on the edge of your seat? Through the car window the bullets rip To the sound of the beat, yeah Another one bites the dust Another one bites the dust And another one gone, and another one gone Another one bites the dust Hey, I'm gonna get you too Another one bites the dust How do you think I'm going to get along Without you when you're gone? They took me for everything that I had And kicked me out on my own Are you happy, are you satisfied? How long can we stand the heat? Through the car window the bullets rip To the sound of the beat Another one bites the dust Another one bites the dust And another one gone, and another one gone Another one bites the dust Hey, I'm gonna get you too Another one bites the dust Hey Oh, take it Bite the dust Kinda dusky Hey Another one bites the dust Another one bites the dust, ow Another one bites the dust, hey-hey Another one bites the dust, eh-eh Ooh, shout out There are plenty of ways that you can hurt a man And bring him to the ground You can beat him, you can cheat him You can treat him bad and then leave him when he's down But I'm ready, yes, I'm ready for you I'm standing on my own two fee Through the car window the bullets rip Repeating to the sound of the beat, oh, yeah Another one bites the dust Another one bites the dust And another one gone, and another one gone Another one bites the dust, yeah Hey, I'm gonna get you too Another one bites the dust Ooh, shoot out Hey-hey All right |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 23 Sep 20 - 08:32 AM My UK acquaintences never take into account that in America your household names are seldom in our house. Your compatriots seldom write with American audiences in mind. I used to try to accomodate for the differences but with a tone like yours why should I. Take care of those feet of yours. Try Metformin. With racist xenophobic fascist rallies and celebrations of Trump we are repeating 1933 Germany and have bigger fish to fry than your Brexit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Mrrzy Date: 23 Sep 20 - 08:13 AM I think most people on this thread know what killing that referred to, Nigel Parsons. And not charged *yet* - the grand jury is still out and a state of emergency has already been declared in case, I am assuming, they decide not to indict and the crowd goes wild. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 22 Sep 20 - 08:06 AM From: Donuel Date: 22 Sep 20 - 07:19 AM The Breona killing was settled out of court for 12 milliom with no police being charged. Presumably this relates to the Breonna Taylor killing (New York Times) The lack of any link, coupled with reducing the reference to a single, misspelt, forename doesn't help anyone understand what point you are trying to make. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 22 Sep 20 - 07:19 AM The Breona killing was settled out of court for 12 milliom with no police being charged. Rochester NY was the heart of women's equality and the Fredrick Douglas anti slavery movement. Not far from the Chautauqua which was an adult education and social movement in the United States, highly popular in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. ... The Chautauqua brought entertainment and culture for the whole community, with speakers, teachers, musicians, showmen, preachers, and specialists of the day. Rochester today is suffering their own miniature civil war. In response to civil war statue removal, the Frederick Douglas statue was thrown in the Genesee River. Police resignations, killings and BLM protests grow as civilization seems to reverse course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Jeri Date: 21 Sep 20 - 10:40 AM The protest continues in Seattle. Unfortunately, the news media has all gone after fresher red meat. Currently, they'll be reporting on RBG... ...24/7 Consider that in the USA, it's the news media who determine what we focus on, and their main purpose is ratings, which = $. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Mrrzy Date: 21 Sep 20 - 08:33 AM I don't want RBG, COVID or the election to knock this issue off our mental front page, so, refresh. Wish I had something new to add, though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 18 Sep 20 - 05:05 PM 250 black women shot Trump ties to KKK at Mt. Rushmore |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Mrrzy Date: 13 Sep 20 - 10:30 AM One confederate monument removed in Charlottesville. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 09 Sep 20 - 08:16 AM Yes it was a gutteral plain spoken response. I can only assume race relations in the UK are better than here and cannot be used comparitively with the US. How much better, I honestly don't know. More on a speculative right wing uprising over the election.. It will not be a full scale bloody insurrection but only a LOUDER right wing conspiratorial presence not just on the internet. How loud? Probably louder than the Big Foot believers but if given enough rope they will eventually hang themselves with thier own nonsense and ammo. The extreme right wing are currently reffered to as counter protestors but as time goes on there will be less respectful terms for them like 'terrorist'. Remaking a national police force will drive the current racist elements underground but at least they won't have authorized 'star chambers' to use anymore. Americans will again have to decide what kind of country we want and who we want to be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Steve Shaw Date: 08 Sep 20 - 07:54 PM Nigel and I have many a difference, but I must say that your response to him is extremely insulting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 08 Sep 20 - 05:53 PM Its a thankless job being whitey's errand boy. It is best to step aside than learn a new reality overnight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Mrrzy Date: 08 Sep 20 - 05:42 PM The entire command staff, whatever that is, of the Rochester police department has now resigned. Blicky. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 08 Sep 20 - 03:58 PM If you lived in America for a lifetime you would possibly understand but I daresay you may be blind to why people have to jump through devised hoops, be it the economy, welfare, voting rights or criminal justice injustices based on color. The reason for your tone is not to see eye to eye or learn a thing imo. back to my supposition How Joe Biden responds to right wing terrorism will have to be opposite that of Trumpian Federal responses. The FBI reports the "right wing domestic violence extremists" are the most persistant threat to America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 08 Sep 20 - 12:29 PM From: Donuel Date: 05 Sep 20 - 04:28 PM Yeah Nigel doesn't institutional racism suck? I don't know what it was that you were incapable of understanding in my post: I don't know how it works in US, but in UK only one member of a 'household' can make a claim for that household. If there's a man living there then (historically) it was the man who made the claim. If a woman (with or without children) wants to claim benefits she needs to confirm that there is not a man capable of working living in the same household. And this would be the same irrespective of the colour of the woman. Isn't that also the case in the US? There is no 'institutional racism' either present, or implied, there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 08 Sep 20 - 11:57 AM In the US the isurrection/cold civil war is at the minimal shooting stage in which we can still name the victims. After the Trump loss, the real domestic terrorism is being hyped on right wing sites. The left is considered the target. I don't know if the National Guard is considered the target or if Black killings will have a open season. Like a White Nationalist Taliban most attacks will be cowardly. Left wing demonstrations will dry up and the radicalized militants may have to take aim at American Women marches or go home. Some violent rhetoric is still on Facebook but there are other sites. I don't know how much is Russian propoganda and how much is the unwashed American right wing. While this is my personal speculation, I believe many gun nuts believe Trump in that its all rigged against their voice. Some people will let thier ever lovin guns do their talking. Then you will no longer know the all the names of victims. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 05 Sep 20 - 04:28 PM Yeah Nigel doesn't institutional racism suck? By the way the nazi gun totting agents provocateur have a new name given them by media, 'Counter protester'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 04 Sep 20 - 05:04 PM From: Donuel - PM Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:49 AM Looking back for decades there were laws passed that would ban black women from welfare if they co habitated with a male who could potentially work. This resulted in banning many fathers from the household and leaving children without fathers. I don't know how it works in US, but in UK only one member of a 'household' can make a claim for that household. If there's a man living there then (historically) it was the man who made the claim. If a woman (with or without children) wants to claim benefits she needs to confirm that there is not a man capable of working living in the same household. And this would be the same irrespective of the colour of the woman. Isn't that also the case in the US? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Mrrzy Date: 04 Sep 20 - 09:07 AM I don't know what the bail [arrest charge] was for. Our mayor didn't bail [on our listening session] but she talked for over an hour, when she was supposed to be listening, so I (and most others) did not get a chance to ask anything. Plus the one question I did hear, she rebutted, which she wasn't supposed to do. Sigh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 01 Sep 20 - 02:36 PM Mrrzy said the paralyzed Jacob was handcuffed to the hospital bed because he was arrested and needed to pay bail. Bail for what? I have since learned it was for a 3rd degree class G felony for sexual assault that doesn't involve penetration. Was this an accusation by a girlfriend? Past or present charges? Is this a legitimate charge or trumped up charges? Was he involved in any argument before being shot? There are missing details on purpose? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 01 Sep 20 - 06:49 AM Looking back for decades there were laws passed that would ban black women from welfare if they co habitated with a male who could potentially work. This resulted in banning many fathers from the household and leaving children without fathers. This is practically a norm now. The next step by racists is to limit children born by black women and incarerate as many black men as possible. This is an old Nazi template. This strategy can be heard by Sheriffs accross the country. Perfected racism |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 01 Sep 20 - 04:40 AM The President commented on Rittenhouse as being viciously attacked. He also said he didn't like the visual of the Jacob Blake video |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Mrrzy Date: 01 Sep 20 - 12:19 AM Tomorrow is another "listening session" for Charlottesville City Council. People get on Zoom and have 3mn to say their piece with no response from the Council. Last time I got quoted in the paper. This time, though, our amazingly racist mayor is supposed to be there. Betcha she bails. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Mrrzy Date: 29 Aug 20 - 10:19 AM Because he was under arrest. They released him when he made bail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 28 Aug 20 - 07:47 PM Why did police handcuff a paralyzed Jacob Blake to his hospital bed? https://abc7.com/jacob-blake-handcuffed-kenosha-hospital-bed/6393621/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: The Sandman Date: 28 Aug 20 - 12:27 PM book makers odds Biden 5/6. on Trump evens, Very Close |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Aug 20 - 12:02 PM Michael Moore cautioned about Trump winning last time and was really sorry to be right. He's making that same warning again in 2020. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: The Sandman Date: 28 Aug 20 - 11:58 AM Trump poses as anti establishment, but will probably use the latest killing as an excuse to poses as a law and order candidate. Jeri, is what i say clear to you, this could be the event that gets Trump re.elected, your calling pence a jerk will achieve very little. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Jeri Date: 28 Aug 20 - 10:28 AM So it's pretty much changed from "holier than thou" to "more woke than thou". The smart people are doing more listening than talking. And "all lives matter" should be amended to say "all live matter, including black lives", which is pretty much what "black lives matter" means, anyway. But Pence is a future former jerk of a VP. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Mrrzy Date: 28 Aug 20 - 10:03 AM Not in space but on the ISS. Not the same woman, Donuel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Penny S. Date: 28 Aug 20 - 05:41 AM There was a long piece on Channel 4 News last night about a July 4th incident in Indiana, showing videos taken by white people who had intervened to help a black man who had been attacked by a bunch of barely dressed inebriated tattoed white men who called him boy, repeatedly, told the white people to clear off and leave them to deal with him, and asked for a noose*. It took some time for the prime examples of supreme whites to be arrested, and they are now claiming that the black man started it, and was trespassing (apparently not) and ignoring the video evidence. The FBI is now involved. When people have forgotten about lynching will be time for Pence to ignore the phrase "Black Lives Matter". He is only afraid of being attacked by a random woman who finds him irresistably attractive. *Apparently they are exonerated by not having a noose, or even a rope only mentioning it. Comments under reports on line are sickening. But I am sure there are people over here just as bad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 27 Aug 20 - 06:40 AM Thank you, to clear the confusion, https://people.com/human-interest/nasa-astronaut-jeanette-epps-become-first-black-woman-join-iss-crew/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 27 Aug 20 - 06:21 AM DICKERSON: "So you won't say Black lives matter?" PENCE: "John, I really believe that all lives matter. And that's where the heart of the American people lies." Last night Pense played into the hands of the white nationalists who are instigating murder and arson blaming all violence on the blacks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 27 Aug 20 - 06:14 AM Sorry, Donuel. When you said "Now we have the first black woman in space". I assumed that the 'now' related to some news, not something that happened almost 30 years ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way? From: Donuel Date: 27 Aug 20 - 06:02 AM Same woman Nigel. Pense doubles down on war against BLM Now some would call this misinformation but it is only a matter of rhetoric. https://www.axios.com/pence-black-lives-matter-protests-98d1432d-135c-4707-abf4-ca5c6c99ace4.html |
