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BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?

WalkaboutsVerse 23 Jun 20 - 04:39 PM
keberoxu 23 Jun 20 - 03:31 PM
Stilly River Sage 23 Jun 20 - 03:29 PM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 23 Jun 20 - 03:25 PM
keberoxu 23 Jun 20 - 03:19 PM
Donuel 23 Jun 20 - 01:48 PM
Donuel 23 Jun 20 - 01:36 PM
Stilly River Sage 23 Jun 20 - 12:40 PM
Donuel 23 Jun 20 - 07:27 AM
gillymor 22 Jun 20 - 08:14 AM
Doug Chadwick 21 Jun 20 - 02:35 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jun 20 - 01:48 PM
Mrrzy 21 Jun 20 - 12:24 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jun 20 - 11:47 AM
Mossback 21 Jun 20 - 09:59 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Jun 20 - 04:03 AM
punkfolkrocker 20 Jun 20 - 10:27 PM
Mossback 20 Jun 20 - 06:28 PM
Donuel 20 Jun 20 - 05:39 PM
Helen 20 Jun 20 - 04:43 PM
Mrrzy 20 Jun 20 - 03:50 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Jun 20 - 02:51 PM
gillymor 20 Jun 20 - 02:43 PM
Mossback 20 Jun 20 - 10:20 AM
Donuel 20 Jun 20 - 09:11 AM
Helen 19 Jun 20 - 06:52 PM
Helen 19 Jun 20 - 06:44 PM
Donuel 19 Jun 20 - 06:27 PM
Mrrzy 19 Jun 20 - 05:33 PM
gillymor 19 Jun 20 - 10:20 AM
Donuel 19 Jun 20 - 10:06 AM
Mrrzy 19 Jun 20 - 10:00 AM
gillymor 19 Jun 20 - 09:36 AM
Mrrzy 19 Jun 20 - 09:14 AM
gillymor 19 Jun 20 - 07:21 AM
Donuel 18 Jun 20 - 10:39 PM
Donuel 18 Jun 20 - 10:31 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Jun 20 - 06:43 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Jun 20 - 06:34 PM
Donuel 18 Jun 20 - 06:30 PM
Donuel 18 Jun 20 - 04:27 PM
Donuel 18 Jun 20 - 03:51 PM
Helen 18 Jun 20 - 03:15 PM
Donuel 18 Jun 20 - 01:08 PM
Dave the Gnome 18 Jun 20 - 11:37 AM
Donuel 18 Jun 20 - 10:40 AM
Jeri 18 Jun 20 - 09:48 AM
Donuel 18 Jun 20 - 09:38 AM
Mrrzy 18 Jun 20 - 09:02 AM
Donuel 18 Jun 20 - 08:30 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:39 PM

I just had post removed very similar to what Twitter and Facebook have accepted - could a moderator please let me know if it was removed by mistake and, if so, I shall re-post it here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:31 PM

To be exact, it was the Supreme Court --
the judicial branch --
in 1832: state of Georgia versus the Cherokee nation.
Gold had been found on Cherokee land, so Georgia wanted the land.

Chief Justice John Marshall did not have long to live when
this case came to the Supreme Court, and he ruled that
treaties were violated by the state of Georgia seizing the land.
It was then -- this is apocryphal, but much quoted --
that President Jackson said,
"John Marshall has made his decision,
now let him enforce it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:29 PM

Sorry? What shit are you trying to stir, ABCD?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:25 PM

So, just about forty years before your President Grant's "war of extermination" against the indigenous peoples?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:19 PM

Yes, I remember what I learned about 'Old Hickory' Jackson,
and what I learned referenced American Indians
(an unavoidable component of African-American bloodlines).

There was a resolution or decision arrived at by either
the legislative or judicial branch regarding
the government's mistreatment of American Indians,
and when it came to President Jackson, he said something
to the effect of ,
Well, you're entitled to your opinion,
and you can decide what you want to decide --
now, let's see you ENFORCE it ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 01:48 PM

A typical trip made by Jackson was by horseback from Tennesee to Niagrara Falls. Trump wouldn't last 10 miles by horseback, but neither could the horse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 01:36 PM

The only thing Trump shares with Jackson is racism
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/donald-trump-andrew-jackson


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 12:40 PM

Andrew Jackson should have been one of the first removed. And then if there are any around still of the first President Johnson (Abraham Lincoln's VP Andrew Johnson) he definitely needs to go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 07:27 AM

At the White House, Demonstrators tried to remove the Andrew Jackson Statue in LaFayette park. Police defended the statue but it now has been painted with the word killer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Jun 20 - 08:14 AM

This inspired rant by Gary Chambers Jr. before the Baton Rouge school board regarding the renaming of Robert E. Lee High School is well worth a look, along with the accompanying story at CNN.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 02:35 PM

... that she discussed no longer using the term "slave," but instead using "enslaved persons."

How long before "enslaved person" is rejected in favour of "person of enslavement"?

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:48 PM

Annoying to you, perhaps, but important to an African American woman. Who gets a vote in this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 12:24 PM

"Enslaved person" is annoying and redundant, but it is common down here too.

Scrabble players are apparently trying to define the word jew as a slur. It can only be a slur if you consider being jewish as awful. Sigh.

Eskimo pies are also to be renamed. Anybody read Cheaper By The Dozen?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 11:47 AM

Terry Gross interviewed Rhiannon Giddens in 2017 and it was repeated on June 19, 2020.

Today's first guest is singer and songwriter Rhiannon Giddens, who has devoted much of her career to finding and interpreting music from the African American tradition. She grew up in the South in North Carolina. Her mother is African American. Her father is white. He sang classical music. Giddens studied opera at Oberlin, but she found her musical identity after graduation, when she started playing string-band music from the African-American tradition, songs from the 1920s and '30s. She co-founded the band The Carolina Chocolate Drops and also released several solo albums.

Her latest album, "There Is No Other," is a collaboration with Italian multi-instrumentalist Francesco Turrisi. It was released last year. Her solo album before that, "Freedom Highway," included songs she wrote based on slave narratives. That album from 2017 also included a song called "Better Get It Right The First Time," which sadly couldn't be more timely. She wrote it in respones to police shootings of young black men who weren't committing crimes.

Terry Gross interviewed Rhiannon Giddens when that album was released, and Giddens brought her banjo to the studio to accompany herself while singing some songs. But before we revisit their conversation, let's hear a track from "Freedom Highway." The song is called "Come Love Come" and was inspired by slave narratives.


I think it was in this interview that she discussed no longer using the term "slave," but instead using "enslaved persons."


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mossback
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 09:59 AM

Perfectly good term with a health pedigree, what's annoying about it ?


Sigh.

By definition, slaves were not paid. They were property.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 04:03 AM

"Slave wages"
Perfectly good term with a health pedigree, what's annoying about it ?
TRY HERE
OR HERE
HERE TOO
AND THE WEST BENEFITS
Perfect term, I think
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 10:27 PM

wage slaves...


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mossback
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:28 PM

"Slave wages" is a contradiction in terms, and one of the more annoying ones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 05:39 PM

Sugar Plantations around the world were slave enterprises from the Americas to French Guyana and even OZ. European sweet tooths were insatiable.

IMO slave wages like minimum wage is still with us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 04:43 PM

Donuel, unfortunately this is not true: "Chattel slavery was never implemented in Australia and slavery was never legally sanctioned"

After our Prime Minister
Scott Morrison's 'no slavery' comment he was reminded about a practice known as blackbirding in Australia.

"As many as 62,500 South Sea Islanders were brought to Australia to work on farms from 1863 to 1904

"Their descendants are calling for the Prime Minister to learn more about the history of slavery"


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 03:50 PM

Cream of Wheat, too. I never even noticed that it had a person on the box, let alone that they were whoever they are. But I have also never purchased that inedible product. And I thought Mrs. Butterworth was just fat, not of a particular skin color. And fat.
There was a kid in my collège Mermoz when I was in Abidjan whose name was Dury. They called him Oncle Benz, but the reference had to be explained to me (Dury is pronounced like Du riz [some rice], and I had never heard of Uncle Ben's.
What's white and crawls up your leg? Uncle Ben's perverted rice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 02:51 PM

"At least Blacks weren't hunted for sport in the U.S"
Not for port maybe - doesn't mean the killers didn't enjoy it
CALIFORNIA GENOCIDE
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 02:43 PM

Re health care in the U.S., one of trump's major initiatives has been to eliminate The Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare), which ironically proved to be very popular with much of his working class supporters as the ACA made it possible for many of them to afford decent health care. Now with the virus and extremely high unemployment they're going to need it more than ever. During the 2016 campaign trump promised to replace the ACA with something even better, so far bupkus, not even a nod in that direction. The funding was redirected to the wealthy in the form of massive tax cuts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mossback
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 10:20 AM

the US has a longer road of oppression to correct.

Longer (1619 instead of 1788) but hardly worse.

At least Blacks weren't hunted for sport in the U.S. See Robert Hughes, The Fatal Shore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 09:11 AM

Chattel slavery was never implemented in Australia and slavery was never legally sanctioned, so indeed the US has a longer road of oppression to correct.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 06:52 PM

Oh yes, and I forgot to mention our health care system.

I read an article which said that a man in the U.S. has been hit with a hospital bill for $1.1 million after over 60 days of treatment for COVID 19.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 06:44 PM

Mrrzy, I didn't get your reference earlier to Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben but there was an article in Oz ABC News about the brand names. Now I get it.

What worries me is whether the marketing people will decide to not use African-American people at all in their ads, so the Black people will become even less present in advertising and risk becoming more invisible in perceptions of what is a "normal" social mix.

It's a social minefield, I think.

Australia has a long, long way to go in reaching equality and recognition of our First Nations people, so I know we are not beyond blame as a society, but there are some deeply embedded social expectations and protections in our society which appear to be sadly lacking in the U.S.

For a start, in Oz there are a whole host of laws against discrimination, and racial, ethnic or homophobic vilification, and there are stringent police procedures and protocols, etc etc. Yes, those protections are violated at times, much more than they should be, but the government takes proactive steps to safeguard these protections, and also although there are some media outlets which like stirring up trouble, our national broadcasting network is fair, balanced, and factual, and sometimes can determinedly and persistently push the politicians and people in power into very sticky corners if they are not doing the right thing.

So, there are rules and accepted processes but they are not just empty words on paper, stored on a dusty shelf - most of the time.

I know we can do better, and it's time we pulled out all the stops to sort out the constitution around First Nations peoples rights, but compared to how far the U.S. has to go, we're a bit further up the road to a balanced and fair society, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 06:27 PM

OMG The bottom has dropped out of the antique black lawn jocky market.
Eric Trump is bound to lose millions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 05:33 PM

Heh heh heh

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/19/business/racist-brands-aunt-jemima-chiquita/index.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 10:20 AM

Some wag suggested The Washington Ethnic Slurs for my "pre-Daniel Snyder" beloved Redskins.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 10:06 AM

Gigantic geriatric aromatic autocratic Nazis
Hate democratic diplomatic hispanics and Faucis.
Hatreds aren't few like blacks Jews and flus
But include the huge human zoo.

is a new day dawning
like old racists crawling
to suckle human kindness?
only the young will find it


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 10:00 AM

Is there now also hope for team name changes (*cough* redskins)?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 09:36 AM

The police reform protests are having a real impact:


The Marshall Project

Municipalities are also introducing reforms and some have already implemented them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 09:14 AM

Happy Juneteenth, celebrated as long as I've lived in Virginia which will be 35 years come August.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 07:21 AM

Prez Bonespur has made Juneteenth "very famous" according to himself, which is not surprising since he's done more for blacks that Lincoln, also according to himself.

Rolling Stone


from the article:

Trump didn’t stop at bragging that he made Juneteenth famous. He then claimed that he polled people in his administration and no one had heard of the date that commemorates when a Union general told slaves in Galveston, Texas, that they were free — two-and-a-half years after the Emancipation Proclamation became law. Then, according to the WSJ, Trump interrupted the interview and asked an aide who was present if she had ever heard of Juneteenth, and she informed the president that a White House statement commemorating the day had gone out each year of his presidency.To which Trump said: “Oh really? We put out a statement? The Trump White House put out a statement? OK, OK. Good.”

Now he's got his redneck throngs converging on Tulsa for his rally that local officials are beseeching him not to hold in the interest of public health, with some coming from COVID19 hotspots in neighboring states.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 10:39 PM

'Drama hidin' Biden is leaning toward Kamala for a VP pick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 10:31 PM

In the short term the flag of Mississippi is coming down, Louisiana is getting rid of Jefferson Davis Parkway with a name change. Its the route to the black college.
The long term changes are generational and are aimed at schools.

PS Helen they say early Alzheimers gets worse at the end of the day, while mornings can seem symptom free.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 06:43 PM

I know that footie doesn't appeal to everyone but I'm struck by the fact that all clubs and players for the first bunch of Premier League matches are unanimous in wearing Black Lives Matter shirts and are all, to a man, taking the knee at the start of games. We also have Raheem putting his head above the parapet to speak out against racism, and Marcus Rashford putting something back and forcing a Boris U-turn on meal vouchers for kids over summer. Good stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 06:34 PM

I think you may have misunderstood my 04.32pm post, pfr. There was a full stop after "thanks" before I then told you that I enjoyed no privileges...


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 06:30 PM

Thank you for skipping past the Steve distraction while the rest of us are discussing actual means to implement BLM. He has engaged in that behavior for decades, particularly whenever I post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 04:27 PM

History faded away in curriculum especially in subjects like the Civil War, or depending on what state wrote the textbooks, The war of Northern Aggression. Social studies changed as history classes faded and it was whatever the government decided what propoganda was of use.
More on this: https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/summer-2019/what-changed-in-social-studies-educa


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 03:51 PM

After WWII the US used to teach that America is a cultural and racial melting pot. We used to teach Social Studies. Its time to do the minimum again. Although I suggest the maximum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 03:15 PM

Start another thread please, guys. This one is about Black Lives Matter.

Donuel said, "So, I am trying to establish that mental illness is seperate and apart from cultural racism. I do not excuse the learned hate but I do believe it is more curable than certain personality disorders."

I tend to agree that personality disorders are ingrained and cultural racism is learned, but I also think that it would take a lot of major cultural and social shifts combined with a major educational push to change some people's views on some other people in society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 01:08 PM

"wokeness is one of those things that now only exists in the imagination"

well reasoned? Exactly what does not exist in imagination?
Competant leaders?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 11:37 AM

Boris Johnson does have a strategy on racism after all. It's called War on Woke

Ok, opinion piece but well reasoned. In my opinion. One snippet in there that I missed in the news. The arch-racist himself seems to have taken a pounding.

Nigel Farage, allegedly a teenage aficionado of the Hitler Youth, has lost his primetime broadcast platform after comparing the Black Lives Matter movement to the Taliban.

Definitely a step in the right direction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 10:40 AM

So, I am trying to establish that mental illness is seperate and apart from cultural racism. I do not excuse the learned hate but I do believe it is more curable than certain personality disorders.
Without a doubt we are taking one step forward with BLM.

The ideas about a few bad apples is quaint and false.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 09:48 AM

Don, people want to keep this thread going, but don't have anything to say. That's how I see it. More about who is posting than the subject.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 09:38 AM

?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 09:02 AM

Hannibal would eat someone else's heart out...


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 08:30 AM

Yes I have personally known a serial killer cop


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Mudcat time: 18 September 4:21 PM EDT

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