BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 04:27 PM

History faded away in curriculum especially in subjects like the Civil War, or depending on what state wrote the textbooks, The war of Northern Aggression. Social studies changed as history classes faded and it was whatever the government decided what propoganda was of use.
More on this: https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/summer-2019/what-changed-in-social-studies-educa

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 06:30 PM

Thank you for skipping past the Steve distraction while the rest of us are discussing actual means to implement BLM. He has engaged in that behavior for decades, particularly whenever I post.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 06:34 PM

I think you may have misunderstood my 04.32pm post, pfr. There was a full stop after "thanks" before I then told you that I enjoyed no privileges...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 06:43 PM

I know that footie doesn't appeal to everyone but I'm struck by the fact that all clubs and players for the first bunch of Premier League matches are unanimous in wearing Black Lives Matter shirts and are all, to a man, taking the knee at the start of games. We also have Raheem putting his head above the parapet to speak out against racism, and Marcus Rashford putting something back and forcing a Boris U-turn on meal vouchers for kids over summer. Good stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 10:31 PM

In the short term the flag of Mississippi is coming down, Louisiana is getting rid of Jefferson Davis Parkway with a name change. Its the route to the black college.
The long term changes are generational and are aimed at schools.

PS Helen they say early Alzheimers gets worse at the end of the day, while mornings can seem symptom free.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 20 - 10:39 PM

'Drama hidin' Biden is leaning toward Kamala for a VP pick.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 07:21 AM

Prez Bonespur has made Juneteenth "very famous" according to himself, which is not surprising since he's done more for blacks that Lincoln, also according to himself.

Rolling Stone


from the article:

Trump didn’t stop at bragging that he made Juneteenth famous. He then claimed that he polled people in his administration and no one had heard of the date that commemorates when a Union general told slaves in Galveston, Texas, that they were free — two-and-a-half years after the Emancipation Proclamation became law. Then, according to the WSJ, Trump interrupted the interview and asked an aide who was present if she had ever heard of Juneteenth, and she informed the president that a White House statement commemorating the day had gone out each year of his presidency.To which Trump said: “Oh really? We put out a statement? The Trump White House put out a statement? OK, OK. Good.”

Now he's got his redneck throngs converging on Tulsa for his rally that local officials are beseeching him not to hold in the interest of public health, with some coming from COVID19 hotspots in neighboring states.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 09:14 AM

Happy Juneteenth, celebrated as long as I've lived in Virginia which will be 35 years come August.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 09:36 AM

The police reform protests are having a real impact:


The Marshall Project

Municipalities are also introducing reforms and some have already implemented them.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 10:00 AM

Is there now also hope for team name changes (*cough* redskins)?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 10:06 AM

Gigantic geriatric aromatic autocratic Nazis
Hate democratic diplomatic hispanics and Faucis.
Hatreds aren't few like blacks Jews and flus
But include the huge human zoo.

is a new day dawning
like old racists crawling
to suckle human kindness?
only the young will find it

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 10:20 AM

Some wag suggested The Washington Ethnic Slurs for my "pre-Daniel Snyder" beloved Redskins.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 05:33 PM

Heh heh heh

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/19/business/racist-brands-aunt-jemima-chiquita/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 06:27 PM

OMG The bottom has dropped out of the antique black lawn jocky market.
Eric Trump is bound to lose millions.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 06:44 PM

Mrrzy, I didn't get your reference earlier to Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben but there was an article in Oz ABC News about the brand names. Now I get it.

What worries me is whether the marketing people will decide to not use African-American people at all in their ads, so the Black people will become even less present in advertising and risk becoming more invisible in perceptions of what is a "normal" social mix.

It's a social minefield, I think.

Australia has a long, long way to go in reaching equality and recognition of our First Nations people, so I know we are not beyond blame as a society, but there are some deeply embedded social expectations and protections in our society which appear to be sadly lacking in the U.S.

For a start, in Oz there are a whole host of laws against discrimination, and racial, ethnic or homophobic vilification, and there are stringent police procedures and protocols, etc etc. Yes, those protections are violated at times, much more than they should be, but the government takes proactive steps to safeguard these protections, and also although there are some media outlets which like stirring up trouble, our national broadcasting network is fair, balanced, and factual, and sometimes can determinedly and persistently push the politicians and people in power into very sticky corners if they are not doing the right thing.

So, there are rules and accepted processes but they are not just empty words on paper, stored on a dusty shelf - most of the time.

I know we can do better, and it's time we pulled out all the stops to sort out the constitution around First Nations peoples rights, but compared to how far the U.S. has to go, we're a bit further up the road to a balanced and fair society, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 06:52 PM

Oh yes, and I forgot to mention our health care system.

I read an article which said that a man in the U.S. has been hit with a hospital bill for $1.1 million after over 60 days of treatment for COVID 19.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 09:11 AM

Chattel slavery was never implemented in Australia and slavery was never legally sanctioned, so indeed the US has a longer road of oppression to correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mossback
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 10:20 AM

the US has a longer road of oppression to correct.

Longer (1619 instead of 1788) but hardly worse.

At least Blacks weren't hunted for sport in the U.S. See Robert Hughes, The Fatal Shore.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 02:43 PM

Re health care in the U.S., one of trump's major initiatives has been to eliminate The Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare), which ironically proved to be very popular with much of his working class supporters as the ACA made it possible for many of them to afford decent health care. Now with the virus and extremely high unemployment they're going to need it more than ever. During the 2016 campaign trump promised to replace the ACA with something even better, so far bupkus, not even a nod in that direction. The funding was redirected to the wealthy in the form of massive tax cuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 02:51 PM

"At least Blacks weren't hunted for sport in the U.S"
Not for port maybe - doesn't mean the killers didn't enjoy it
CALIFORNIA GENOCIDE
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 03:50 PM

Cream of Wheat, too. I never even noticed that it had a person on the box, let alone that they were whoever they are. But I have also never purchased that inedible product. And I thought Mrs. Butterworth was just fat, not of a particular skin color. And fat.
There was a kid in my collège Mermoz when I was in Abidjan whose name was Dury. They called him Oncle Benz, but the reference had to be explained to me (Dury is pronounced like Du riz [some rice], and I had never heard of Uncle Ben's.
What's white and crawls up your leg? Uncle Ben's perverted rice.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 04:43 PM

Donuel, unfortunately this is not true: "Chattel slavery was never implemented in Australia and slavery was never legally sanctioned"

After our Prime Minister
Scott Morrison's 'no slavery' comment he was reminded about a practice known as blackbirding in Australia.

"As many as 62,500 South Sea Islanders were brought to Australia to work on farms from 1863 to 1904

"Their descendants are calling for the Prime Minister to learn more about the history of slavery"

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 05:39 PM

Sugar Plantations around the world were slave enterprises from the Americas to French Guyana and even OZ. European sweet tooths were insatiable.

IMO slave wages like minimum wage is still with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mossback
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:28 PM

"Slave wages" is a contradiction in terms, and one of the more annoying ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 10:27 PM

wage slaves...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 04:03 AM

"Slave wages"
Perfectly good term with a health pedigree, what's annoying about it ?
TRY HERE
OR HERE
HERE TOO
AND THE WEST BENEFITS
Perfect term, I think
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mossback
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 09:59 AM

Perfectly good term with a health pedigree, what's annoying about it ?


Sigh.

By definition, slaves were not paid. They were property.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 11:47 AM

Terry Gross interviewed Rhiannon Giddens in 2017 and it was repeated on June 19, 2020.

Today's first guest is singer and songwriter Rhiannon Giddens, who has devoted much of her career to finding and interpreting music from the African American tradition. She grew up in the South in North Carolina. Her mother is African American. Her father is white. He sang classical music. Giddens studied opera at Oberlin, but she found her musical identity after graduation, when she started playing string-band music from the African-American tradition, songs from the 1920s and '30s. She co-founded the band The Carolina Chocolate Drops and also released several solo albums.

Her latest album, "There Is No Other," is a collaboration with Italian multi-instrumentalist Francesco Turrisi. It was released last year. Her solo album before that, "Freedom Highway," included songs she wrote based on slave narratives. That album from 2017 also included a song called "Better Get It Right The First Time," which sadly couldn't be more timely. She wrote it in respones to police shootings of young black men who weren't committing crimes.

Terry Gross interviewed Rhiannon Giddens when that album was released, and Giddens brought her banjo to the studio to accompany herself while singing some songs. But before we revisit their conversation, let's hear a track from "Freedom Highway." The song is called "Come Love Come" and was inspired by slave narratives.

I think it was in this interview that she discussed no longer using the term "slave," but instead using "enslaved persons."

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 12:24 PM

"Enslaved person" is annoying and redundant, but it is common down here too.

Scrabble players are apparently trying to define the word jew as a slur. It can only be a slur if you consider being jewish as awful. Sigh.

Eskimo pies are also to be renamed. Anybody read Cheaper By The Dozen?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 01:48 PM

Annoying to you, perhaps, but important to an African American woman. Who gets a vote in this.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 02:35 PM

... that she discussed no longer using the term "slave," but instead using "enslaved persons."

How long before "enslaved person" is rejected in favour of "person of enslavement"?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Jun 20 - 08:14 AM

This inspired rant by Gary Chambers Jr. before the Baton Rouge school board regarding the renaming of Robert E. Lee High School is well worth a look, along with the accompanying story at CNN.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 07:27 AM

At the White House, Demonstrators tried to remove the Andrew Jackson Statue in LaFayette park. Police defended the statue but it now has been painted with the word killer.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 12:40 PM

Andrew Jackson should have been one of the first removed. And then if there are any around still of the first President Johnson (Abraham Lincoln's VP Andrew Johnson) he definitely needs to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 01:36 PM

The only thing Trump shares with Jackson is racism
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/donald-trump-andrew-jackson

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 01:48 PM

A typical trip made by Jackson was by horseback from Tennesee to Niagrara Falls. Trump wouldn't last 10 miles by horseback, but neither could the horse.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:19 PM

Yes, I remember what I learned about 'Old Hickory' Jackson,
and what I learned referenced American Indians
(an unavoidable component of African-American bloodlines).

There was a resolution or decision arrived at by either
the legislative or judicial branch regarding
the government's mistreatment of American Indians,
and when it came to President Jackson, he said something
to the effect of ,
Well, you're entitled to your opinion,
and you can decide what you want to decide --
now, let's see you ENFORCE it ...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:25 PM

So, just about forty years before your President Grant's "war of extermination" against the indigenous peoples?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:29 PM

Sorry? What shit are you trying to stir, ABCD?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:31 PM

To be exact, it was the Supreme Court --
the judicial branch --
in 1832: state of Georgia versus the Cherokee nation.
Gold had been found on Cherokee land, so Georgia wanted the land.

Chief Justice John Marshall did not have long to live when
this case came to the Supreme Court, and he ruled that
treaties were violated by the state of Georgia seizing the land.
It was then -- this is apocryphal, but much quoted --
that President Jackson said,
"John Marshall has made his decision,
now let him enforce it."

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:39 PM

I just had post removed very similar to what Twitter and Facebook have accepted - could a moderator please let me know if it was removed by mistake and, if so, I shall re-post it here.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:44 PM

Straying into Indian Territory when this thread is about Black Lives Matter. And I'm not going anywhere WAV wants to try to misdirect.

Meanwhile, in the death of George Floyd, four weeks later the Minneapolis Police Union has finally spoken.

In an interview Monday with CNN, union officials said they are being unfairly vilified by critics of the Minneapolis police department, and blasted local elected officials who have called for major reform of the department, even as union representatives offered little by way of specific policing reforms they would be willing to support.

"We have become scapegoats in this," said Bob Kroll, police union president, adding, "the people to blame lays squarely (sic) on the shoulders of our political leadership."

Minneapolis became a flashpoint for criminal justice reform advocates after Floyd was killed during an encounter with at least four of the city's police officers. In eyewitness video footage of the incident, former officer Derek Chauvin was seen pressing his knee to the Black man's neck for nearly eight minutes as Floyd lost consciousness.

Chauvin was charged by prosecutors with second-degree murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. The three other officers were charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder, and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter.
Asked by CNN about what went through his mind as he watched the video of Floyd being killed, police union representative Rich Walker said he was "horrified."

"I don't know what was going through Officer Chauvin's mind, but I can say that I don't agree with how it ended," said Walker. "And to this day I still believe that Mr. Floyd should still be here."
Those comments were echoed by Kroll; however, he stopped short of indicating what he thinks should happen to Chauvin -- instead insisting that he did not want to pass judgment on the former officer.

"There was a firefighter at the scene saying, you know, 'check him, check him'. The light should have went (sic) off to do that, but we're not going to pass judgment," Kroll said. "The justice system is going to prevail."

It sounds like a lot of squirming to point the finger at political leaders (who do have responsibility) and the fire fighter who said "check him" (should he have pushed the officer off and checked sooner?) - nevermind that the unions have things set up so responsible officers are rarely charged. I'm a big supporter of unions, but clearly these aren't in place just to negotiate salaries and health benefits.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 06:02 PM

WAV, every post you try to put up in this thread about Black Lives Matter is trying to change the subject to the importance of white lives. You're the "All Lives Matter" response that doesn't understand what the conversation is about. The last one was to post a story about a "disgraceful" murder of whites by someone of "African Origin."

You are tone deaf on this subject and refuse to try to understand it. Your poems are dated and off topic and posting links here seems to be the only way to drive traffic to your site. No wonder Amos didn't give you any slack.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 08:50 PM

I couldn't agree more. Soft faces, hard cases...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 09:48 PM

Walkaround
The sign said "Go Slow"
And lord knows you tried to follow
Such a hard case with a soft face
You gave us a taste,
But a mistake's disgrace could grow
and your path to walk narrow.
Stop looking back and open your eyes

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: mg
Date: 23 Jun 20 - 11:51 PM

change on the way. i think we will have an acting president who is a Black woman...I am hoping Keisha Lance Bottoms with Kamala Harris for AG. I think Biden needs to name them immediately and not dawdle. I don't get too passionate about politicians but the few minutes I have observed for KLB especially during violence impressed me as very few have ever impressed me. I think she is presidential, which is really what we are talking about. This is just a gut reaction. I have done some reading etc. but not enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 12:17 AM

I don't know Bottoms, but I know Susan Rice has a lot of familiarity with federal government and how the White House is supposed to work. As does Harris, Warren, Duckworth - that office needs to be filled by someone who knows how to work with the federal system and what the rules and ethics are.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 09:40 AM

Rayshard Brooks' funeral was yesterday. If George Floyd's death was the period at the end of an all-too-long sentence about police brutality, Brooks' death was in that space before the next sentence begins.

Reverend Dr. Bernice A. King, daughter of the late civil rights leader and CEO of The Martin Luther King, Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change, also spoke at the service.

"We really should not be here today, this should not have happened to Rayshard," King said Tuesday. She called for police reform so that officers cannot "continue to hide behind badges" when using deadly force.

This is where cities and states need to step up into the space provided and enact legislation that shifts all of the dollars going to police into community programs intended to help people the police have never been equipped to work with. And to take away all of that militaristic hardware and firepower from the hands of an under-educated and under-trained group who, many of them, fancy themselves some kind of urban police warriors.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 11:20 AM

SRS, whilst I agree about disarming the police, it ain’t gonna happen until something is done about a draconian reduction of civilian gun-ownership. That surely is a self-evident truth?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 11:53 AM

Hmmm. Not sure I'm for *disarming* the cops, but de-*militarizing* yes. Cops should be civilians, guardians not warriors.

In fact I am really tired of war being the only metaphor... Fight drug abuse, war on terror[ism, anyway] etc. Where is Heal, or Cure? Where is Treat, or even Help?

I know murricans are all about violence being a first resort, but I am tiiired of it.