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BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?

keberoxu 27 Apr 21 - 07:37 PM
robomatic 27 Apr 21 - 06:39 PM
Helen 27 Apr 21 - 06:26 PM
Stilly River Sage 27 Apr 21 - 06:00 PM
robomatic 27 Apr 21 - 02:57 PM
Helen 27 Apr 21 - 03:26 AM
Stilly River Sage 27 Apr 21 - 12:02 AM
keberoxu 26 Apr 21 - 10:27 PM
Donuel 26 Apr 21 - 04:49 PM
Helen 24 Apr 21 - 04:53 PM
Helen 24 Apr 21 - 04:43 PM
Donuel 24 Apr 21 - 12:54 PM
Donuel 24 Apr 21 - 09:29 AM
Donuel 24 Apr 21 - 08:29 AM
punkfolkrocker 24 Apr 21 - 12:19 AM
punkfolkrocker 24 Apr 21 - 12:07 AM
punkfolkrocker 24 Apr 21 - 12:03 AM
robomatic 23 Apr 21 - 10:06 PM
Stilly River Sage 23 Apr 21 - 04:22 PM
Helen 23 Apr 21 - 03:51 PM
robomatic 23 Apr 21 - 03:37 PM
Big Al Whittle 23 Apr 21 - 12:08 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Apr 21 - 08:41 PM
Steve Shaw 22 Apr 21 - 07:41 PM
Big Al Whittle 22 Apr 21 - 06:10 PM
robomatic 22 Apr 21 - 05:12 PM
Donuel 22 Apr 21 - 04:20 PM
robomatic 22 Apr 21 - 03:14 PM
Big Al Whittle 22 Apr 21 - 12:06 PM
Donuel 22 Apr 21 - 08:07 AM
punkfolkrocker 22 Apr 21 - 07:38 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Apr 21 - 07:04 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Apr 21 - 05:59 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Apr 21 - 05:48 AM
Neil D 22 Apr 21 - 12:11 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Apr 21 - 11:32 PM
meself 21 Apr 21 - 09:35 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Apr 21 - 08:45 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Apr 21 - 07:30 PM
ripov 21 Apr 21 - 05:59 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Apr 21 - 04:52 PM
Donuel 21 Apr 21 - 04:33 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Apr 21 - 04:22 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Apr 21 - 02:45 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Apr 21 - 02:23 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 Apr 21 - 02:09 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Apr 21 - 12:43 PM
Backwoodsman 21 Apr 21 - 12:19 PM
meself 21 Apr 21 - 12:16 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Apr 21 - 12:03 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 07:37 PM

I believe Fats Waller recorded that song.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 06:39 PM

I'll look for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 06:26 PM

robomatic, the song I think of was sung by Louis Armstrong and some others, "(What Did I Do To Be So) Black and Blue?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 06:00 PM

A friend was in the process of establishing a whale watching business based in New Zealand near some prime whale activity areas north of Kaikoura was scuttled because of a land dispute in which the Maori were able to make the case that the property had cultural significance and took it over. My friend was disappointed, but I think it's a risk we all run when we live on colonized land, especially the important ceremonial spots like what they were trying to buy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 02:57 PM

I heard a horror story about the clearance of Tasmania being outright extermination.

By contrast, the English takeover of New Zealand was rather remarkable in that the original colonizers gave the indigenous Polynesians, the Maoris, citizenship and honored their land claims, initially. This did not last. In another Mudcat above the line thread mention is made of Governor Robert Fitzroy, who once captained the Beagle and shared quarters with the young Charles Darwin. As Governor of New Zealand, Fitzroy attempted to protect Maori rights and was roundly rejected by the English settlers.

I think I learned about the concept of racism in nutshell form from one of the great broadway songs of all time, "You've Got To Be Carefully Taught". IMHO it's on a par with "Strange Fruit".

I once posted the words of that 1 minute song into an online chat that was going sideways and I was promptly dropped from the chat!


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 03:26 AM

I remember what I was taught in school here in Australia. It was very much biased towards the white colonial narrative, starting with Captain Cook's supposed "discovery" of Australia, white colonisation and then the arrival of the white convicts, and then later the free settlers and even later the immigrants from other countries. Any mention of Aboriginal people who were here at the time of the invasion was usually passed over, or there were images of (white people's) paintings showing them standing peacefully and giving an impression of acceptance of the white arrivals.

I never heard about the declaration of the land being "terra nullius", i.e. "land that is legally deemed to be unoccupied or uninhabited" (and therefore available to be claimed by the white invaders) until maybe the late '90'sor even early noughties. It wasn't in the interest of the white colonials to bring this detail up in discussions.

To clarify, I will say that I didn't study modern history at school or uni so maybe there was more complexity of discussion in those subjects.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 12:02 AM

His acceptance was first rate and the award was well-deserved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 10:27 PM

What you think of Tyler Perry films is your affair,
and chacun a son gout and all that.

Tyler Perry's acceptance speech made me proud to be from this country,
at his honorary humanitarian award from
the Academy of Motion Pictures last night.

His "Refuse Hate" theme
is a distillation of so many of the lyrics
of the songs championed by the Mudcat Forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 04:49 PM

Racism is taught very early. I think some people pretend they don't remember.
With 1,000 US deadly police shootings of black people per year there will be ample opportunities to see change.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 04:53 PM

I just read this article by Stan Grant on the Oz ABC News site:

Does Derek Chauvin's conviction for George Floyd's murder
offer hope, or is it just an illusion?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 04:43 PM

That's a key question, Donuel.

As far as schooling and higher education goes, I can't really remember discussions about racism or the real, mostly hidden history of the invasion of Australia and the suppression or massacres of our First Nation people.

Although when I was studying psychology for a couple of years at Uni I remember one of our class tutors leading an in-depth discussion about whether there is systemic prejudice in IQ tests. His initial question was something along the lines of asking us whether we thought black people were less intelligent than white people. That question shocked me to the core.

After letting us think about it for a while and then toss ideas around, his comments were about the difference in education that people receive and the assumptions built in to the tests that everyone could be measured by test questions based on mathematical calculations or puzzles which assumed a previous knowledge of how to solve them or questions based on a presumed common language where for some people it was their second language. This is a similar systemic prejudice to the tests that Black people in the U.S. were expected to do to qualify for voting rights, although as I understand it, the bias was deliberately built in to the tests.

Basically I don't remember seeing racism in my young life, but given my improved understanding now it would have been there but I didn't recognise it. Also there were very few people of colour in my small town at that stage.

But one thing that I remember very clearly is what my Mother said to my sister and I when were young, in our first year of two of school. She asked us what we would do if we had an Aboriginal classmate. With hardly any time to think about it, I said I would want to be his or her friend.

I remember in early school we used to recite the Eeny Meany Miney Moe rhyme with absolutely no idea what the n-word meant or that it is racially abusive. It's interesting that a few decades ago the "catch an n-word" part was officially changed in schools to "catch a tiger". I think that was about the time I was studying to be a teacher.

We also used to read a book called Little Black Sambo. I never really saw the point of the story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 12:54 PM

Eeny Meany Miney Moe when did you learn about racism??


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 09:29 AM

Steve Jobs is still changing America. Look at a dollar bill, you will see the all seeing eye atop the pyramid.
Cameras are our new memory aid to remember and testify for justice.

Next we should have cameras in the Supream Court.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 08:29 AM

In NJ some cities have tried police reforms and had a full year of no police killings
At the same time some States are going to enact and explore police reform


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 12:19 AM

Google speach recognition can do more effectively in seconds,
what decades and centuries
of oral transmission can do to bugger up folk song lyrics...


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 12:07 AM

Fukkit, accidentally clumsily posted too soon.
Before correcting Google dictate errors.

Final sentence should be..

"The USA certainly seems to have more than it's fair share of the bastards...!!!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 12:03 AM

Well I can't speak for anybody else..

But I believe I have a strong consistently rational sense of personal integrity and morality.
I trust my own independent judgement when it comes to balancing objectivity and subjectivity..

That cop done it, we saw him do it, he deserves heavy punishment..

It don't need to be any more complicated than that..

He may be a rare bad apple.
Or he is representative of a wider pernicious behavioural culture in his department.
That's for official enquiries to determine

My personal subjective opinionated observation
of his videoed crime,
is he looked like the kind of policeman
who would have enjoyed collaborating with N@zi occupiers in Eastern Europe..

That is pure, though fairly well informed, intuitive speculation on my part,
stemming from over 40 years of personal conjecture on the nature and actions of humanity gone bad...

Perhaps it's the quarter Jew in my DNA,
some kind of bio radar,
which makes me sensitive to identifying such people...???

USA sentence inside more than it's fair share of the bastards


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:06 PM

Well said. This goes along with a phrase I've used regarding my own musings: "The futility of insight."

It's probably related to over-analyzing too much and acting too little for some of us, while many of us are all too willing to take action on literally any kind of information at all.

It's never wrong to act with decency and I think most of us have a good idea of what that is.

Mark Twain wrote a good example of it when Huck Finn is on the Mississippi sharing a raft with Jim; has an opportunity to turn Jim in as he meets a couple of mounted riders searching for an escaped slave. Everything he's been taught tells him that it is wrong to hide Jim and right to turn him in. But he does not turn him in and he reasons it out for himself. It is a great lesson in morality.

The current incarnation of the internet where we are all reacting all the time is putting a social pressure on everything as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 04:22 PM

That's a very Libertarian view, robomatic. Everyone has it wrong.

Right now we're in a period of heightened political correctness that puts some previous episodes to shame. Opinions expressed publicly that don't completely align with thought leaders are to be shamed and that person driven out of their job and out of existence. Despite this practice, the term "cancel culture" has been adopted by several political groups and is therefore meaningless.

This is a drastic case of what Derrida described as the margins writing back to the center. Colonized voices are speaking back to the colonizers. Non-mainstream groups are lecturing the mainstream for being blind and obtuse. White populations are fish being asked to see the water they swim in (and to share it).

It's a difficult process and there is overkill, but it needs to happen. I've heard authors interviewed on my local NPR station who discuss the problems of shaming and cancel culture; I meant to pick up one of the books mentioned but have lost track of that note to myself.

Political correctness is an issue for White people who are trying to position themselves alongside Black Lives Matter in a way that isn't tone deaf to the issues at hand. In the process we're all throwing stones at each other's glass houses, so people are bound to get hurt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 03:51 PM

Donuel, I agree with all you said in this post Date: 22 Apr 21 - 04:20 PM but especially this bit:

"Its time for a change regarding peoples who were historicly slaves to be given back full human rights. doncha think?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 03:37 PM

I think there is considerable emotional undercurrent that is occurring here and that is what I pick up from big Al's posts, and not only his posts.

As for me, I've lived long enough that I feel I've seen all this before. Not only the initial disgusting events, but the considerable amount of posturing and self-righteousness that goes with it, on all sides.

If you pick one event and stick to the facts, you can be accused of blindness to the social ills.

If you opine on the general poor state of society you can be accused of ignoring the specific injustices that have occurred.

If you really want to coax or kick society into improving, you generally get accused of everything by everybody.

This is going through my mind not only on the racial issues being discussed in this thread, but equally to the repetitive gun violence in the United States, captured in The Onion headline:
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 12:08 PM

I'm not sure I have an argument Steve. Just an uneasiness about what's just happened. Perhaps I am totally wrong in everything I'm saying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 08:41 PM

Surely presenting a forged note for a purchase isn't even a misdemeanour, or any kind of offence in any country, unless there are good reasons to show that you knew it was a fake? Any of us might have quite innocently handed over a forgery sometime. Lots of checkouts routinely test any note just in case.

If a shop accepts a forged note, that is a good indication that it was a convincing enough forgery to mean it would be reasonable for the person passing it to claim they believed it was genuine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 07:41 PM

I think that where your argument falls down, Al, is that this was no spur-of-the-moment killing, no panicky misjudgement. That would have been bad enough in a trained police officer, but this guy spent nine whole minutes on Floyd's neck before deciding to back off. It must have been pretty clear to him that his victim had been made safe after just a minute or two. In fact, the longer he persisted, the greater the risk that someone in the crowd would react violently and adversely. Making an arrest knowing that a lot of people could have been armed must be scary, as you say. But your man didn't exactly make it snappy, did he?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 06:10 PM

Don't you think all the people carrying firearms must make it very scary for cops trying to effect an arrest?

Being a cops wife means that you accept your husband that your husband may get killed on his shift.

For the husband - theres a sort of unwritten agreement that you will do your best not to leave her a widow.

In this case I heard that the cop approached the car . shoved a gun through the window and started calling the shots. If there wasn't an odds on possibility that that someone in the party was armed this was a real escalation from where things would have been in England.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 05:12 PM

Okay DonTrumpuel you have combined classic misreading of posts with a virtuosity rant. I know you wait for these at bats. Guess you can tick that box for this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 04:20 PM

Having a bad note is a misdemeanor. Making them is a felony. Yet neither offense carries the death penalty. The point with cops is the Culture that treats races differently. I suspect robo's friend was white and was not harmed.

Having an expired license plate does not carry the death penalty by cop unless you're black.
Having a cracked tail light or lane changing does not carry a death penalty....etc.etc.
I saw a black senior citizen shot to death in a McDonalds drive through line. The cop said he suspected a stolen car, an old Pontiac?
Even black cops are prone to shoot to kill a black suspect out of training and culture. Its gotten bad these last several hundred years.
Its time for a change regarding peoples who were historicly slaves to be given back full human rights. doncha think?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 03:14 PM

Big Al, points well taken.

The government has always been pretty sensitive about passing bad currency, particularly in a day and age where a kid can use a color scanner/printer and one of his friends can attempt to pass a century note at McDonald's! This happened to someone I know and I drove by their house to see at least three police vehicles parked around it. That involved more than just a sit-down in a cruiser. Color of kid was irrelevant (white in this case).

I believe that the initial police report of Floyd's death covered up the actual events and it was the video taken by a young onlooker, who was threatened by the policeman with his knee on the neck, that exposed the actual events. Obviously something had to be done.

It is very tough to be a good cop, and it seems to me to be a natural instinct to look out for your fellow cop because of shared dangers and exposure to the anger of anybody who is reprimanded or worse. And in the U.S., the cops have guns because, well, everybody's got guns. It's in the Constitution!


As for change, the French have a saying that starts Plus ca change...


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 12:06 PM

Its one of those jobs. You're meeting folks at their worst and frequently their lowest point in their lives. My Dad wasn't a village bobby - he was CID. Ex St helens ruby payer, ex Irish Guardsman tank driver - he was as tough as I'm soft.

He never spoke much about the job, but my Mum told me he always thought he'd got it wrong and killed someone. He was arresting a paedophile and spoke harsh words to him. The guy drowned himself.

I tell you a weird story.

I wqas never really posh enough for folk clubs. I splashed about in the shallows of showbiz - and that's how I met the comedian Tich Cooper, a Grantham lad - he's still gigging 12 months a year in Teneriffe.

Tich had been ambulance driver -picking up the bodies off the M1 near Nottingham. Great comedian - very employable.

One day he told me - Al - you know the weirdest thing about this job is that it doesn't matter. If you're a crap comedian and can't make people laugh, it doesn't matter. it really doesn't. No ones any poorer , any the worse...and yet. People will get SO angry if you're a crap comedian. I've seen people physically attacked because they bombed on stage.
Whereas when I was an ambulance man, I saw people who killed the people they were supposed to be caring for - by being too stupid, incompetent, or lazy to do their job. And afterwards , almost inevitably the relations of the deceased would come up and thank them for their work. That's a job where it matters what you do, and how you do it.

And the thing is.... I dunno. I 'm not sure there is a point....except moral superiority over people who do these jobs stinks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 08:07 AM

Humans have long practiced human sacrifice, only the motivations have changed. How many other species do this I don't know. Today the state provides a license to kill provisionally. Split second murder decisions do not even allow for the forebrain to have a conscious say. But a murder that takes over nine minutes in front of a nine year old is more than most civilized people can accept as justified. Such deliberate action with forethought is a definition of murder. *So is war* but the state can declare such murder to be legal.

Law has made allowances for self defense. Some of you have experienced having to choose to use lethal force in self defense or not. Lets hope you chose correctly.
The subject of murder defines a culture imo.
In the US for example, lynching is not a federal crime.
Murder is both a state and personal decision. I hope we choose wisely.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 07:38 AM

My wife is one of those sweet innocent mature ladies,
who is obsessed with murders..

Think of a notorious murder case and she's probably read the the books
and watched the documentaries and TV dramatisations..

This means I've watched enough documentaries with her,
to be well aware of how arbitrarily unfair and brutal American prison sentencing is..

Plea bargaining deals can seem almost incomprehensible to us Brits.

Exerting extreme pressure on apparently innocent defendants to plead guilty and go to jail,
just to avoid even harsher punishments if they go to trial in front of unsympathetic juries.

I could go as far as suggesting how class biased and racist USA juries seem to British eyes.

Yet this is the accepted norm in America..

Cops without guns shouldn't be the only thing us Brits are grateful for...

There's one long-running series which shows in-court video highlights
of attempted prisoner escapes, fights,
and appallingly behaved petty childish lawyers and judges..

Occasionally the worst of 'em get sacked..

.. by comparison, it makes a lot of our stereotype old-fashioned bigoted bastard provincial magistrates look like kind hearted angels..


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 07:04 AM

It occurs to me that a crucial, and pretty well unique, aspect of this case, and one which ensured a rapid guilty verdict, was that the existence of the video record meant that the jury were in effect eye witnesses of what happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 05:59 AM

Those are my thoughts too. Talking up the 40-years thing looks very unwise to me. If he gets 40 years, we'll never know now whether it was imposed after taking all the factors into account in the measured pursuit of real justice or whether it was imposed for fear of a backlash if he got any less.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 05:48 AM

Prison sentences in the US are grotesquely higher than in other countries, and so is the rate of incarceration. The Constitution talks of "cruel and unusual" punishments being forbidden, but, as with capital punishment, this appears to be ignored in practice. Or rather interpreted as meaning "unusual" within the bounds of the United States, rather than within the civilised (and for that matter the less civilised) world.

The worrying thing in relation to this is that if the sentence given to Chauvin is less than the maximum possible, 40 years, this is likely to be seen by many people as him not getting what his crime deserved. And yet in any other country in the world 40 years in prison would be viewed as excessive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Apr 21 - 12:11 AM

fpr, you asked: Did I hear right many weeks ago,
that the cop and his victim knew and had prior personal antagonisms with each other...???

The two both worked security at a club and a day or two after the Floyd killing, a third person who worked at the same club came out with the story of them having a beef with each other. However, this man quickly recanted the story, saying he had confused Chauvin with another employee. There is actually no evidence that they ever interacted on that job.
Someone from management did say that Chauvin was not very good at security. He did not know how to de-escalate situations, which is always the first thing any bouncer should attempt. It was said that he often seemed nervous and quick to call for assistance, especially when dealing with people of color.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 11:32 PM

Al - the prosecution presented a timeline of video evidence, from many different sources and angles, leading up to the arrest and death.

That was one part of the trial I did watch,
because I'd knocked off clearing out the attic for a 10-minute tea and hot pastie break, but then got engrossed in the live news coverage for an hour or more.

Last summer, like many folk I also started off with the the cynical opinion that Floyd was probably a bad 'un,
who was violently resisting arrest and caused his own death by hard-working stressed cop.

But it soon enough became apparent that although in his life he was no angel,
on that fateful day
Floyd was hardly the nasty villain our right wing British press were falsely depicting him as;
in order to undermine the progressive principles of the BLM cause.

In the videos he came over as a dopey big lump.
Happily stoned and as affable as could be.

You've gigged in enough pubs to recognise the difference between a gentle giant happy friendly drunk,
and smaller aggressive 'little Napoleon complex' arseholes,
throwing their weight around starting fights trying to prove they are the big men to be feared.

That's what any reasonable witness would, and did, make of all those phone cam, body camera, and CCTV video clips..

We are not talking about a friendly village Bobby on the beat,
overwhelmed by trying to arrest a big city
criminal
'county-lines' violent drug dealing knife man.

Which has sadly become more of a reality in provincial West country towns like we live in.
Increasingly violent drug gang stabbings the mail and express thrive on for headlines..

My personal default position is to respect our British police.
Because when they occasionally knock on our town centre front door asking for witness statements
regarding violent crimes on our street,
I don't know if they are good or bad cop.
Whichever, they are just doing a difficult job;
and there's no harm being polite to them..

So Al, please don't think that reacting in favour of Floyd's callous cold killer getting banged up for life,
necessitates being anti police in general...


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: meself
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 09:35 PM

This one, though, was not one of those split-second decisions in a stressful situation - and there were no firearms involved explicitly. Did you watch the video, Al? I didn't intend to, but caught up in the trial, and finally did ....


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 08:45 PM

The thing is SRS - everybody is making those remarks.

I think there's a sort of unanimity which is a bit scary.

all I'm saying is I wouldn't have wanted that cop's job that day, and I don't hear many people who understand what its like making an arrest. My Dad was a cop. Sometimes things can go very wrong, when they do - its a tough spot to be in - you have to make decisions. Sometimes you get it very wrong, but it often hinges on a decision you make in a very fraught situation. Mostly no one dies but sometimes they do. Even in merrie England.

what I am certain of is that those decisions but must ten times more difficult when all members of the public have access to fire arms.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 07:30 PM

Big Al, you watch too much TV.

The Congresswoman who made those remarks is a black woman who has been very active in social justice issues. "Showboating" is subject to opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: ripov
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 05:59 PM

Senoufou-regarding judgements people make based on colour- my youngest son metand married a lovely lady from Kenya, during a visit to her home town,they went to the local market, where after an altercation my daughter-in -law replied to the trader(Ithink she probaably translated outof decency "he's not a white man he's my husband!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 04:52 PM

I don't think you're right. From all the police procedurals, I think at very least they would question the suspect in the back of the police car. if I get stopped for a driving infringement - that always happens.

And with something where a known felon was passing dud money - I think they they would be bound to search the car - only sensible, in case he had a couple of million more false bills in the back.

I think everybody in this country wanted Biden to win the election. i'm sure I did. I don't approve of politicians showboating by commenting on law and order. I hope Biden doesn't disappoint. America needs a break.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 04:33 PM

pfr, Chauvin moonlighted by having done security for cup foods. Supposedly George also had a security position at cup foods but how often either worked or if they knew each other is unknown to me.
Incontravertable evidence is best. Prosecution avoided all irrelevant speculation it could not prove.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 04:22 PM

Yes. But it doesn't seem to have featured in the prosecution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 02:45 PM

Since January I've been staying away from home comforts and computers,
too preocupied with house sitting and clearing out a family mansion [ok, big council house]..

So not had much time for the details of this case.

Did I hear right many weeks ago,
that the cop and his victim knew and had prior personal antagonisms with each other...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 02:23 PM

Why don't you explain WHY you would arrest someone for an event that normally would simply result in the confiscation of the false bill and that is the end of it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 02:09 PM

The real problem is they're all armed to the teeth.

I think given what's happened, Biden should explain to us how he would arrest a six foot seven ex- armed robber, ex-drug dealer who had just flagrantly passed a counterfeit currency. yes I know - could happen to anyone....

i'm not sure I'd get it right. I don't know why all these other people have such confidence in their abilities that they could accomplish the task without bloodshed.

Per haps Biden should tell us how much he reckoned he should be paid for the job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 12:43 PM

It sounds like you're describing brutal, first-degree murder. I'm not saying you're wrong. I was as revolted as you were by what I saw. But that wasn't on the charge sheet. Either wiser heads thought that it wasn't that, or it wasn't the charge because it was considered that jury members might well have had an issue with it. We can continue to speculate as to whether the policeman wanted to kill him or whether he was blinded by his own adrenalin and anger and lost control, etc. It was discussed in court, of course it was. But it wasn't going to come to a conclusion because it wasn't the remit of the court to decide whether he intended to kill him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 12:19 PM

I think you’re right on the button, pfr. The word for his behaviour and entire demeanour during the fatal nine minutes is ‘Showboating’.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: meself
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 12:16 PM

12.5 years in prison is not 40 years - but it's not a slap on the wrist, either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 12:03 PM

I've not been following the intricacies of the was it or was it not intentional debate,
Even if it legally mattered in securing conviction.

What my eyes and humanity tells me,
is that cop looked for all practical purposes
like a sadistic bully.

Almost like a great white hunter proudly dispatching his fatally wounded magnificent powerful big game trophy animal..

My subjective analysis is he continued restraining and tormenting Floyd
just to spite the concerned and distress onlookers.
The more they pleaded, the longer he continued brutalising his victim.
Just to show the audience he was the boss in control.
He has all the power they have none.

Turns out he got that badly wrong...


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