BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 07:20 PM

The problem with walky is, on rare occasions, he says something almost sensible enough
we can all agree with..

Then he throws away the goodwill, reverting to his usual highly dubious nonsense...

Same goes for bonz, who sometimes seems to be turning into a bit of a lefty pefty in his more mature years...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 07:08 PM

Walkabout, prove it.
I think it's a lie, but proof should be easy to find.

There was no chanting "at the funeral". It was a FUNERAL, for pete's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 07:02 PM

...a CEO in Japan earns about 10 times more than the lowest paid in a company; in Europe it is about 30 times more; and, in the USA, more than 300 times more. So why do so many around the world keep on Americanising? The American free-market way is NOT a good way for humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 07:01 PM

I don't know what some of you are trying to say. Seriously, Bonzo's geezer thing makes absolutely no sense. And the stuff about chanting "black power" is just stupid. No evidence, just "I heard".
There are so many non-black people out there in the streets, that I can't see why there would be black racists there. What news source do you have that wants to be Fox? Go look at photos from the various US cities.

For the record, of course all lives matter, but that means black lives matter, and police should stop ending those of unarmed people.
Have there been many that aren't black?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 06:58 PM

No classifications of people deserve positive favoured privilege or negative discrimination,
more than any other..

Though, of course, we all have personal prejudices and bias
which tend to inline us to prefer some types over others..
We're only human, after all...

It's the powerful elites who sustain their entitled exceptionalism,
dominating the the rest of us,
by pitting us all against each other in constant pernicious fighting over entrenched differences...

Race is the most classic base nature conflict perpetuated by the rich and powerful'
as a vital tool of their divide and rule...

It was a pleasure to watch the symbolic theatricality of that despised statue being dumped in the river...

The reactionaries who despair at this 'vandalism' to a monument
they stubbornly rallied around,
should be glad the protesters are peacful,
and not coming next to drown them...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 06:50 PM

Should have typed mourners not goers, sorry - twitter character limitations and copy/pasting getting the better of me, I'm afraid; but, if you do a web-search, it seems Black Power rather than Black Lives Matter was chanted at the above-mentioned funeral.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 06:31 PM

Georgiansilver, I think the key issue in Black Lives Matter is equality, justice and fairness for all.

If one ethnic or other identifiable group consistently outpaces another ethnic or other identifiable group in some key social measures over centuries not just years or decades, then there is a problem and that problem needs to be not only addressed ("we will commission a report and ignore the recommendations") but resolved satisfactorily for all people, not just for the benefit of one group.

The statistics tell the story. I posted some links to statistical pages on 06 Jun 20 - 08:12 PM.

You will notice from those statistical compilations that some of your statements are corroborated, however the statistics only form a basis for making decisions, formulating strategies and taking positive action. Different people interpret statistics and data differently, and it is important to view the research as objectively and fairly as possible, with minimal personal bias and aim for the best possible outcomes for all people, not just those with a privileged base or with their own agendas.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 06:23 PM

I'm a Humanist, I also believe all lives matter...

including folks I don't particularly respect..

.. like for instance.. right wing christians...


btw.. big cheer for Bristol, the best place I ever lived..

For many obvious reasons, some now becoming apparent to the rest of the world...

Told you all before it's a radical progressive city..
.. well.. as much as it can be in tory owned great britain...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 06:19 PM

Mossback, Forgive Georgian bozo walkaround, they know not what they do.
They are less evolved than Steve but education is a good 1st step.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mossback
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 05:45 PM

Its the number of people who actually believe the garbage posted 07 Jun 20 - 05:10 PM that are the cause of the problem, and also the reason that Change Ain't Gonna Come.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mossback
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 05:42 PM

Yo, Georgian:

EDUCATE YOURSELF

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 05:25 PM

"Because a career criminal guilty in the past of many acts of violence which included the robbery at gunpoint of a heavily pregnant woman died at the hands of a police officer and large riots ensued...."

Blimey. If you believe in the rule of law that you really can't think this. No matter what he's alleged to have done in the past, he was entitled to the same due process as anyone else. I'll remind you that he was unarmed, that the policeman knelt on his neck for nine minutes and that, for most of that time at least, he was no threat to anybody. Think again.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 05:19 PM

I know Bristol a little bit and I'm dead chuffed that Colston's statue was ripped down and dumped in the harbour, where his ships sailed from. I didn't even know that there was a statue of him in Bristol and I think that its presence was an abomination. Well done to the local police for taking a step back but yah boo to Priti Patel who could only spout the formulaic establishment line. Colston made his money via the slave trade and his philanthropy can't disguise that. I've been to the Colston Hall a few times and I'm over the moon that its name will soon be changed. There was a man who does not deserve any kind of glorification.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 05:14 PM

Jim Carroll,

I watch this Oz show every week and it has very good balanced coverage and commentary with statistics on various issues including how Trump and Biden are doing in the polls:

Planet America
and

Planet America Fireside Chat

They have also been including coverage of the protests.

I'm not sure whether you can access the iView from outside of Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 05:10 PM

Back in the 1960s to 1980s it was the 'black power' movement now it has reared its ugly head again under 'black lives matter' It will not succeed any more than it did then. for many reasons....... my belief as a Christian 9s that All lives matter......Suggest a bit of research into how many Native Americans have died in Police custody in America in the last ten years... much more than black Americans. Check how many white people have been murdered in Africa... especially Zimbabwe in the last ten years and how many, including people we know, have been forced to flee for their lives from Zimbabwe. Check how many Aborigines have died in custody in Australia and how many white missionaries have died in the last ten years in different parts of the world. I'm sorry but as a Christian, I believe that ALL lives matter. Not just 'black lives' a movement which has carried on from the 'Black Power' movement of the 1960-80s All lives matter to me. I acknowledge that black lives are important but no more important than any other race which is being in any way persecuted including our own UK.... Lee Rigby, a young Army man and numerous other killed on London Bridge and environs.. Because a career criminal guilty in the past of many acts of violence which included the robbery at gunpoint of a heavily pregnant woman died at the hands of a police officer and large riots ensued...... all this has been blown out of proportion. He and others who were with him have been arrested and are being dealt with by the law......which is correct...... but a movement that is anarchic in nature and is destroying property, buildings and police cars also causing human suffering is not the right thing ....

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:28 PM

Here's a tidbit. Two of the officers charged in George Floyd's death are rookies starting their 1st week. It was their training day with Chauvin in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:24 PM

Bonz - all I know is that I am a white male who has benefited far less from the oppressive exploitation of other races,
than probably you and the privileged middle class you belong to...

Of course I'm not to blame for any historic and current race crimes..
but I'm aware they happened,
and would prefer they no longer continue..

Whichever colour the aggressors are...

Btw.. just watched two magpies beating up a predatory cat in my back yard..

What a brilliant natural symbolic image for Black and White unity...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:06 PM

It's for a good cause though, some geezer they never knew in a different country who was killed by another geezer they never knew from that same country.......
And now they want to blame everyone that had absolutely nothing to do with it especially whites and police!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:04 PM

Oh, the black Americans I've had to do with are, frequently and commonly, incredibly racist. In fact, there is a redefinition of racism going on where it it's against the upper class, it isn't racism. Sigh. I quote King a lot about not making skin-color-based judgments but waiting for content of character...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:01 PM

Black and white, unite and fight crap crack-pot poetry...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 03:56 PM

"Just heard on the UK news that George Floyd funeral goers were not chanting Black Lives Matter but Black Power; it seems to me many people of African origin are themselves racist - it does NOT only go in one direction; my poem on "Land Rights" "

Were they goers squire??

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 03:54 PM

Somebody's lying, Wav.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 03:41 PM

Just heard on the UK news that George Floyd funeral goers were not chanting Black Lives Matter but Black Power; it seems to me many people of African origin are themselves racist - it does NOT only go in one direction; my poem on "Land Rights"

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 03:08 PM

"BOOM !"...

Now that's a scenario for our creative imagination...

An assassination of a high security surrounded evil mad dictator would need to be an inside job..

Anything in public would be too spectacular taking out too many bystanders...

Though not a sensible solution, as the repercussions, would be diabolically bad
for a heavily privately armed divided nation...

Best it was made to look like natural causes..
though absolutely no guarantee mass deranged trigger happy supporters would believe this..

.. or that the replacement would be any better...

But day dreaming isn't a crime yet...

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 01:45 PM

47% approve 53% disapprove overall

Then there are dozens of breakdown polls

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 01:35 PM

Thank you mossback for your kind comment

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 01:31 PM

Can any of you people over yonder give us an idea of Trump's popularity rating over all this ?
We're getting mixed messages, the BBC is blanking it but an American commentator on Irish radio yesterday said he was plummeting
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 01:25 PM

Oh good, the real Jeri has returned.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 01:21 PM

The way this is lining up, with Trump's secret army, militia or whoever they are, and his raging paranoia, I wonder...
I'm pretty sure he'll lose the election, and what will happen when folks try to drag him out of the White House?
Black Lives Matter, and the murder of Floyd, have resulted in the tide turning. He has to deal with his inaction on Covid-19 killing thousands, and now, the focus on anti-racism, and generally Doing The Right Thing, just pile on him.
I'm afraid of what will happen in the future, but I'm stoked that so many people care about justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 12:33 PM

I just saw an actual Game of Thrones moment when Mayor Jacob of Mineapolis was asked about defunding police, he said "No". The crowd started chanting 'go home Jacob go home', he turned to leave and the chanting turned into "Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame, Shame. The young mayor walkednearly 2 blocks awy befor the chanting petered out.

Defunding should be a less funding with funding of education instead.imo

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 11:33 AM

Ever since I was a little lad going to football matches in Lancashire, I've been opposed to the use of police horses in crowds. Horses can be skittish and unpredictable and you can't always get away from them. I saw a few bad-tempered incidents in those times.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 11:24 AM

BoneZoo is right, pets are people too. Why has he excluded black cats?
What is this FOX claim that black evil matters ;^{

There is sometimes a need for comedic relief

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 10:52 AM

Some glaring oversights may be changed, For example LYNCHING is NOT a Federal crime. Racist Practices may be untouched in certain local police departmnts including internal affairs.

Not to cause unneeded anger but I have noticed a few of our British cousins useing rhetoric that would have alarmed Americans if they expressed it on Wash.DC streets. In their defense - differnt country, history and intensity of the issue. There is more they don't know over here than they think.

Personally our 2 closest McDonalds have a history of murdering an innocent elderly black patron in the drive through and beating black kids. I've marched in funerals for black martyrs since I was 8. I visited DC by bus to attend the MLK I have a dream speech but I did not break quarantine due to Covid 19 this week.



Just now on FOX, Rudy Guilliani is quick to point out that police kill a miniscule number of black people than blacks killing blacks.
He said we need LAW and ORDER LAW and ORDER LAW and ORDER LAW and ORDER
He goes on to Blame Jane Fonda and Obama for the defund the police movement and that police racism is a hoax and MYTH

100 billion goes to the police each year - you be the judge

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 09:57 AM

You talking about the President's militia thugs? The guy has gone full-on paranoid.

The rest of it's been pretty peaceful of late, however I was listening to BBC America last night, and they were talking about rioting and such. I wondered what the hell THEY'D been paying attention to.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 09:39 AM

The whole business has got totally out of hand. When rent-a-mob breaks the law, what do they expect to happen? I feel for the poor animals.

ALL LIVES MATTER.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 09:06 AM

I didn't think we'd get marriage equality either, so I have hopes. Ditto pot laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 07:20 AM

Supreme Court may take up 'qualified immunity' law that protected cops for 50 years

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 07:03 AM

Corporations donating to fight racial injustice and Trump martial law

Walmart 100 million
airbnb   50 million
Amazon    10 million
facebook    10 million
Coogle       12 million
There are over a hundred smaller corporations also on the list

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 06:38 AM

You're not going to win a battle with just hope but you're not going to win one without it either. I don't think any one here thinks you're going to throw a switch and things will change, protests like those that have been going on for the last 12 days nudge things forward, maybe just slightly, but they also get people talking and thinking, I've seen that here in my own conservative white bread community and that can be reflected at the polls as it was in the 2018 midterms. Or you can just give up.
I think we're witnessing the last stand of White male supremacy in this country and they're not going to go down easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 06:17 AM

You can live in hope that you will get decent, sane presidents and vice-presidents. But Obama couldn't change much. Like all your politicians (ours too, perhaps to a lesser extent), they are leaned on so heavily by powerful and unelected lobbies - the gun lobby, the pro-Israel lobby, oil companies, financial institutions, the big multinationals - that the significant changes that glaringly need to be made are impossible. You could start with your ridiculous electoral system, which would help to prevent dolts like Trump from being "elected," but that ain't happening either, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 05:58 AM

"straight-talker"

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 05:07 AM

The longer this goes on the better I feel about the prospects of states and municipalities reforming their law enforcement institutions, something that is already happening in Minneapolis and other locales but I'm worried about the stress that the police must be under, I hope they can hold up. It's encouraging to have seen a number of incidents of cops expressing solidarity with the protestors, forming handshake, or elbow bump, lines and even marching with the protestors as they did in Newark last week, that's certainly something that's changed. You're always gonna have a percentage of bad ones out there and that's true in any profession.
As for Biden's VP pick, since mg brought it up, I guess a black woman is a likelihood at this point and I like Val Demmings, a Florida Rep and former Orlando Police Chief and social worker, she comes across as a confident, intelligent strait-talker who would be able to step into the job immediately and learn while doing it, something the incumbent president is in no way capable of. Keisha Lance Bottoms, the Atlanta Mayor has also emerged as an appealing choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 05:04 AM

It always is "different this time" - we have social media, Fake News, and Fakebook.

But history teaches us: a change will come. And it will probably be in small steps.
There is inertia in the system, push too hard and it rips, and you can't predict where. Well you can, but there are a million predictions and no person can hold all the permutations in their head and prepare for the ones that come true.

Mind you the most important lesson history teaches us is that we don't listen to history.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:59 AM

The demos will fade. There's no revolution coming. Had Floyd been killed in midwinter far fewer people would be on the streets. Racial tensions resulting in street demos only happen in summer in Britain. The fight is not pointless and we have to keep going. I want to be wrong and in no way am I feeling defeatist. A black man is murdered by a policeman and you see great hopes. Hundreds have been mass murdered in schools and colleges and other public places by deranged gunmen for decades, but you've done nothing. Anthropogenic climate change science is settled yet atmospheric CO2 goes up and up. The biggest and most influential countries are doing almost nothing and the rain forests burn. You decide whether it's just me being bloody gloomy or whether it's you who's late in getting real.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: mg
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 04:04 AM

well...i was pretty confident that things would change for the better when it was just climate change and covid...i am still optimistic. what has really set things back is not the massive protests, which would be better if it were not for the spread of virus...but the riots which may have outside involvement..which of course they do...

but police reform will come. some officers need to be gone. some need retraining. what they really need is more officers from whatever group of people is most interacting with them in terms of jail etc. we need to go after people of noncolor with the same vigor used on people of color...just watched a looting of gucci video.. lots of cute white girls. go after them first and foremost. let them know they have broken the law and there will be consequences..probably not jail because of covid...but they should be going back to school with ankle bracelets and drones flying over their heads.

there is a lot of information out about beating covid and we have to because it seems to be causing all these blood ailments, probably because so many are recovering. They have a good and inexpensive protocol that many countries are using and scientists are going after some false research that was put out recently. So reducing the impact of covid is urgent and will be set back by huge gatherings of people lately. But it will die down. America and other places will go back to work but many businesses are dead from the virus, the shutdown and the looting. Trump will most likely be defeated, Lindsey and Mitch will probably be defeated. I am making a monthly contribution to defeat Lindsey and urge others to join me.

We are on the verge of almost free energy, of solving the plastic problem, of having solar powered cars, of educating the planet at no cost, of providing clean water to people, of reforestation. We can produce 3d drawn houses in 48 hours or so. we could probably house all the homeless with refurbished fifth wheelers etc. we could put all sorts of people to work with good financial and housing incentives. i think we will have some sort of health care for all. hopefully we will have fewer hours to work spread out among more people.

Agriculture huge problem with climate change. Need more people in agriculture especially involving animals. Need to create more surplus food and provide it to low income people..we could have local greenhouses and dairies for food deserts.

One thing is that we will have a Black woman VP. Because I dont think Biden is the right candidate and approaching senility, I was hoping for Elizabeth Warren to be his backup. I think that is no longer possible but she can push legislation through. I am hoping mayor of atlanta is VP.

Things have changed. Riots will kill many minority owned businesses and places like target will perhaps just say we can't take this risk so we are gone. Well...that is what riots do. Change will not come probably without them.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Helen
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 12:31 AM

I agree, Ebbie, it does seem different.

This is how it seems to me. There are different aspects in life which seem to be converging on a pivotal point. Each of the different aspects have occurred before, but relatively isolated from other aspects, but in the present global situation and with certain people in power, what used to be familiar and taken for granted is being viewed from a new vantage point by a large number of people. This could be an opportunity to rethink a lot of aspects of life on earth, including racism and social inequality, but also including climate change and the way our economies are structured and a whole lot of other things.

The naysayers could say there is no point in taking action, it has all been done before, it made little to no difference then so it will make no difference now, so it's a WOFTAM*, just forget it.

*waste of effing time and money, (or in this case WOFTAE, where E = energy).

“There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.” Victor Hugo

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jun 20 - 12:03 AM

I would love to sing a song called "The Tipping Point."

To me too, it seems different this time somehow. There are so many layers and facets of us calling for change. That seems new to me.

Not to take note of the fact that if we fail AGAIN, I think the consequences may be brutal.

Wouldn't it be nice if it turned out that t'Rump was of some use after all?

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 Jun 20 - 10:20 PM

one here was excused by his senior officer as "having a bad day"

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jun 20 - 10:11 PM

I live in Charlottesville, where the cops just let people get beaten.

But more generally, I have real hopes that they'll stop killing people, any person, for being *suspected* of a crime. "They" includes some cops and all vigilantes.

And for those cops, "I was just following orders" hasn't been an excuse for generations.

Subject: RE: BS: Black Lives Matter - change on the way?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 Jun 20 - 09:18 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2020/jun/07/no-australia-is-not-the-us-our-shocking-racial-injustice-is-all-our-own
No, Australia is not the US. Our shocking racial injustice is all our own -
African Americans make up 12% of the adult population, but 33% of the US prison population; in Australia the ratio for Indigenous people is 3% of the population and 29% of the prisoners ... Indigenous women account for 36% of all women behind bars.
If we could just replicate the ratio of African Americans in prison for Indigenous people, total prison numbers in Australia would fall by around 22%
When things would so greatly improve by only being as bad as the US, you know things are in a woeful state.
If the rate of Indigenous men in prison was the same as that of non-Indigenous men, rather than having 11,682 Indigenous men in prison there would be just 760 – cutting the total male prison population by more than a third.

we've had over 400 deaths in custody since a Review/Royal Commission in 1991 & no-one has ever been charged.