Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries

Subject: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Celtaddict
Date: 08 Jun 20 - 12:19 PM

Music friends: Does anyone have a copy of Keith Marsden's songbook, Picking Sooty Blackberries, that I could borrow? (Or buy of course)
I love all the songs of his here, but would love more!
Thanks!

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 08 Jun 20 - 01:56 PM

I do think copyright issues should be considered, btw

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 08 Jun 20 - 06:11 PM

It wouldn't be too difficult to get in touch with Val and see what she thinks. She may even have spare copies of the book.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Jun 20 - 06:47 PM

It looks like contacting Val would be the only option. Amazon sells them, but their site says they're out and don't know when they could get copies in.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Celtaddict
Date: 08 Jun 20 - 08:33 PM

Ah, I do not know of Val. Could someone fill me in please?

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 02:11 AM

Val Marsden is Keith's widow.


Dave H

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 03:12 AM

And Val also sang with Keith in Cockersdale.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 07:09 AM

John O'Hagan a Cockersdale member had the Sooty Blackberries stock of books to sell ~ not heard from him for a good while ~ Val Marsden and Graham Pirt other main members

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Raggytash
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 07:33 AM

Hi Ray, could you contact Val on celtaddicts behalf and see if she has any copies or see if she minds you passing on her contact details.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 12:22 PM

Please look above first ~ I do think it is important to have copyright permission first ~ indeed that has been the thrust of what I have posted ~ I think Cockersdale need to have agreement in their group as to whether all of Keith's songs should be made public or not first

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Reinhard
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 12:34 PM

Ray, I don't understand your concerns. The OP doesn't want to (illegally) republish Picking Sooty Blackberries, he wants to read it. My copy of this book is my own, not the property of the publisher any more. If I were to lend or sell him my copy, it's my decision and does not infringe any copyrights.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 01:46 PM

Quite, Reinhard.
The book was published. Nobody's permission is needed to buy or borrow a copy. In the book edited by Val, John and Graham, after Keith's death, copyright to the contents is ascribed to Fellside Recordings. Many singers learnt Keith's songs whilst he was alive and he was rightly proud that they were treated in the same way as traditional songs. That was the spirit of them. If any permission to record them is needed then applying to one of the 3 above-mentioned would bring a suitable response.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 02:37 PM

To get another run on a book that is seemingly no longer available the publisher would have to have some indication of a reasonable profit.
A forum like this one would be the ideal place to start a campaign. I'll email Graham and ask what the possibilities are.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 20 - 07:48 PM

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 02:12 AM

I have sent a fb message to Val ~ as Steve says some permissions needed and Fellside we found have the copyright ~ Morley Main was a ring fenced song ~ I have always found too moving a song

What can, could or should be done with Keith's songs ~ whether it simply sing the songs, put on mudcat, reprint Sooty Blackberries etc ~ is not my concern (or rather it is) sorry to have read between the lines, if I am wrong ~ don't think so

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 03:20 AM

I would certainly love to have a copy, and I wouldn't mind paying a premium price. Of Course, if somebody wanted to give permission for everything to be posted at Mudcat....

I'd pay a premium price for that, too.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Peter the Squeezer
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 05:14 AM

I bought my copy last September for £2.99, from a charity shop in Skipton.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 08:34 AM

John O'Hagan is the man

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: CupOfTea
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 01:07 PM

I believe I was struck by the same impetus, dragged down by dearth of money, as Celtaddict, after hearing one of his songs at an online ballad sing. I recognized his name as the author of "Prospect, Providence" a song I've loved from Brian Peters' singing.

Yeah, I'd love a copy, but don't have have a fortune for it and wouldn't buy anything on Amazon.

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: GUEST,radriano
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 01:11 PM

Hello Celtaddict,

I have a copy but I'm in California. I'm also sensitive about copyright issues. But, if there is a particular song you want more information on, I could certainly provide that.

Radriano

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 10 Jun 20 - 02:26 PM

I also may be able to help with info Celtaddict... so i sent you a PM.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: JHW
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 01:42 PM

Good reminder. Spent a lot of yesterday evening reading my copy again. Lots of stories as well as the songs.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Celtaddict
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 02:02 PM

Thank all of you for responses. Yes, of course, my first choice would be to purchase a copy of the book, but I have had no luck finding a copy at any price. I am not considering publishing it; I want to read it. I am not a professional singer and cannot imagine making a recording or being paid; I have heard several sung, including a couple for which I did not catch a title. There are ones that could be learned, to be sung, on Facebook, but not as many as in the book. Learning more about them, and singing the songs together with friends, are my goals here.
I did write to Val Marsden on Messenger, though I do not know if she uses it, and will try following up with other members of Cockersdale.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 02:46 PM

I knew you'd get many and varied responses over here at Mudcat. And sometimes the answers will come in within minutes! (I think at one time some of the real die-hard members used to race to answer these queries and beat each other to the answer.)

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 03:36 PM

Graham Pirt used to be a member here, and sent me a lot of Keith Marsden/Cockersdale's stuff. I don't want to part with any of it. Know that there was a concer of "Picking Sooty Blackberries" at Whitby one year, and a recording was made. I don't think everything was on the CD, but it might be easier to find than the book.

Of course, if someone knows Val, and could ask her...

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 06:13 PM

Graham's email bounced but I sent him a message on Facebook.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 06:56 PM

I have received this (part) message from Graham Pirt

"If you could join back into the mudcat thread and let them know that I am going to look at producing a digital copy of the book. I'll contact Paul at Fellside, as they are the publishers of the songs. Hope that helps"

I would add that Val Marsden is poorly at the moment and I am sure we all send her best wishes

Lets bide a while and see what happens now

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Des Gander
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 07:49 PM

If it helps to fuel demand, can I chip in to say I'd be a willing customer for any type of re-publication!

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Jun 20 - 07:54 PM

Sorry to hear that Val is unwell, and hope she will be better soon.
I have happy memories of doing a week of "Picking Sooty Blackberries" daily workshops with Val, Graham and John at Sidmouth Festival, where we learned Keith's songs, and finished the week with a concert. Val was very touched by our efforts, tears of joy!

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 02:42 AM

Yes Keith Marsden was a fine man of the people, his take on the area in

which he grew up Morley and of working class life was spot on. He was

from working class stock though a grammar school boy, he left the world

too early, but also bequeathed us a rich quota of songs of his life

experience.

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 02:55 AM

"but also bequeathed us a rich quota of songs of his life"
Apparently not, if his book is unobtainable
The touches on problems I've been having lately - what do you do if good songs become unobtainable - did the song-maker make the songs wanting the songs to die when they did?
Can't remember how long copyright laws wztend nowadays - it used to be 75 years
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 03:25 AM

Jim ~ Keith died in 1991, his first written song that is still sung regularly being "Bring us a barrel" around 1965 ~ a number of his songs are already on mudcat and vinyl records and cassettes were made of Cockersdale group (see above) singing much of the material

At sing arounds both home based and at festivals at least one of Keith's songs is "bound" to be sung

"Our" age group recognise the subject matter ~ by and large, and some times identify and empathise with the subject matter ~ songs will not die so long as singers want to sing them

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 04:25 AM

I know of Keith's songs Ron, I have little doubt that singers who don't would be happy to sing some of them if they had access to them
Some of us aren't going to be around much longer - nobody is going to be forever
I'd love to think anything I wrote would outlast me
Personally, I much prefer to sit down with a book to look for songs than hoe to pick one up at a crowded festival or in a noisy bar after a club night
When discussions like these happen, I find myself wanting to offer up a prayer of thanks for the 'Public Domain' status of folk songs (pity I'm an atheist and have no-one to talk to up there !!
I've taken a bit of stick over passing the songs I think worthwhile on to others lately
Jim

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 06:59 AM

He always calls me Ron ~ no problem

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 07:33 AM

Sorry ray - too early in the the day - perhaps it should have been Eth ?
Jim

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 08:33 AM

One sad thing is that I have CDs, but if I want to listen to them, it has to be in my car. No CD drive on the Mac. No ripping, no listening, even.
I used to sing some of his songs. Bring us a Barrell, Prospect, Providence, and Normandy Orchards. I have the book, but it tells me it doesn't want to go anywhere.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 09:09 AM

I've got a USB DVD drive, just plug it in and away you go.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 10:29 AM

A lot of new cars now don't even have CD players! It's plug in your smartphone or SD card!

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Jun 20 - 10:34 AM

Yes old enough to know who Eth was

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 29 Jun 20 - 09:00 PM

Bit bothered by Jeri's last entry and by his comment about having the book and that it tells him it doesn't want to go anywhere.
Keith wanted people to sing his songs.
I would be concerned if commercial recordings were made without proper attribution and I came across a blatant example of this in Australia with Johnny Handle's composition "The Old Pubs".
And don't forget that Sony own everything!   
See my comments on the other thread Idlers and Skivers

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jun 20 - 09:27 AM

Thank you Malcom - you're a nice lady.

I don't want to lose the physical book.A lot if the songs are already on Mudcat. See the links at the top of this page. I know Celtaddict, and while I don't want to pry my grabby little fingers off the book, I have a camera phone and know how to use it. Well, I MOSTLY know how to use it.

I'm thinking someone else may have hooked her up, but we're friends elsewhere, so maybe I'll just message her there.

Seriously, Malcolm, thanks for refreshing this thread, and pointing out that Keith wanted the songs spread.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 30 Jun 20 - 06:55 PM

As Ray said higher up the thread, thankfully Keith's songs ARE still being sung: usually hear several of them at Sidmouth Folk Festival in the "Middle Bar Singers" sessions (that's unaccompanied singing for anyone who cares to attend). The "Funeral Song" has been immortalised with that line "They had to send for far more chairs" and every chair in the room being stacked up into a precarious tower: I hope Keith would approve! Wish I could post the photo.

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 02:00 AM

EXTRA chairs is correct.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 20 - 06:52 AM

Very good songwriter, missed by many but his memory lives on through his songs

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 02:49 AM

re

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: r.padgett
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 06:33 AM

Full set of hand actions to go with the Funeral song btw

Ray

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 04 Jul 20 - 12:22 PM

Oops sorry: that was from defective memory.....sigh!

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 16 Jul 20 - 06:52 PM

Yay! I knew I had it somewhere! Was sorting out all my music and stuff from various workshops today, and found my copy of the handout for the "Picking Sooty Blackberries" week at Sidmouth. 16 songs - fabulous!

Subject: RE: Keith Marsden Songbook: Picking Sooty Blackberries
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 25 Aug 21 - 06:47 PM

For anyone who wants to hear some of the songs again, here is a superb video from this year's "Whitby@Home Festival" with Val Marsden (Keith's widow) and Graham Pirt singing the songs and explaining the background to them:
Picking Sooty Blackberries