Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris

Subject: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: RunrigFan
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 05:30 PM

The French song, was sung by Corvus Corax

a nus hons pris ne dira sa raison
Adroitement, se dolantement non;
Mes par confort puet il fere de chançon.
Moult ai amis, mes povre sont li don;
Honte en auront, se por ma reançon
Sui ces deus yvers pris.

Ce sevent bien mi honmes et mi barons,
Englois, Normant, Poitevin et Gascon,
Que je n'avoie si povre compaignon,
Cui je laissasse por avoir en prixon.
Je ne di pas por nule retraçon,
Mes encor sui ge pris.

Ja nus hons pris ne dira sa raison
Adroitement, se dolantement non;
Mes par confort puet il fere de chançon.
Moult ai amis, mes povre sont li don.


Corvus Corax version

Ja nus hons pris ne dira sa raison
Adroitement, se dolantement non;
Mais par confort puet il faire chançon.
Mout ai amis, mais povre sont li don;
Honte i avront se por ma reançon
Sui ça deus yvers pris.

Ce sevent bien mi home et mi baron
Ynglois, Normant, Poitevin et Gascon
Que je n'ai nul si povre compaignon
Que je lessaisse por avoir en prison;
Je nou di mie por nule retraçon,
Mais encor sui je pris.

Obscuratus est sol
Obscuratus est aer
Salva me ab ore dragonis

Je nou di mie por nule retraçon,
Mais encor sui je pris.
Je nou di mie por nule retraçon,
Mais encor sui je pris.

https://www.songfacts.com/facts/richard-the-lionheart/ja-nus-hons-pris


various versions on youtube

Engish (from a website), dunno if accurate

Never can a prisoner tell his mind,
Openly, without sadness,
But, vehemently, he can write a song,
I have many friends, but poor are the gifts,
Shame on them, if to gather my ransom,
I am here for two winters.

They know well, my men and barons,
English, Normans, Poitevins and Gascons,
That I have no companion, no matter how poor,
That I would leave in prison without acting,
I am not criticising,
But I am still prisoner.

Never can a prisoner tell his mind,
Openly, without sadness,
But, vehemently, he can write a song,
I have many friends, but poor are the gifts.
https://lyricstranslate.com

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 06:26 PM

http://www.silencethebard.com/?page_id=34

That may be of some use to you, RF.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 06:33 PM

This is a Provencal song traditionally assigned to Richard the LionHeart in his captivity (late 12th century). It was perhaps most beautifully sung by the countertenor James Bowman (my cousin!) and the Early Music Consort many long years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shEDxgEFUeA

yours ever,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: RunrigFan
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 06:48 PM

I only heard the Corvusn Corax version

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: Monique
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 08:40 PM

Guys, this is Old French, not Old Occitan (Provençal as it's called in the English speaking countries).
The original lyrics can be found below this YouTube rendition by the Ensemble Perceval. You can find them here too with a translation into modern French and a longer version in Old French with a translation into modern French there. "Google translation" gives a rather accurate English translation of the modern French translation in spite of some mistakes.

Ja nuls om pres non dira sa razon
Adrechament si com om dolens non
Mas per conort deu om faire canson
Pro n’ai d’amis mas paure son li don
Anta lur es si per ma rezenson
So çai dos ivers pres

Or sapchon ben miei om et miei baron
Angles norman peitavin et gascon
Qu’ieu non ai ja si paure companhon
Qu’ieu laissasse per aver en preison
Non o dic mia per nula retraison
Mas anquar soi ie pres

Car sai eu ben per ver certanament
Qu’om mort ni pres n’a amic ni parent
E si’m laissan per aur ni per argent
Mal m’es per mi mas pieg m’es per ma gent
Qu’apres ma mort n’auran reprochament
Si çai me laisson pres

No’m meravihl s’ieu ai lo cor dolent
Que mos senher met ma terra en turment
No li membra del nostre sagrament
Que nos feimes els sans cominalment
Ben sai de ver que gaire longament
Non serai en çai pres

Suer comtessa vostre pretz sobeiran
Sal Dieus e gart la bela qu’ieu am tan
Ni per cui soi ja pres

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: RunrigFan
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 01:40 PM

The ones I linked must be old french, since https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieol/ofrol/50#glossed_text_gloss_99416 has raison

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: Monique
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 03:53 PM

Indeed they are.

Subject: Lyr Add: Die Klage
From: RunrigFan
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 05:16 PM

Ja nus hons pris ne dira sa raison
Adroitement, se dolantement non;
Mais par confort puet il faire chançon.
Mout ai amis, mais povre sont li don;
Honte i avront se por ma reançon
Sui ça deus yvers pris.



Ce sevent bien mi home et mi baron
Ynglois, Normant, Poitevin et Gascon
Que je n'ai nul si povre compaignon
Que je lessaisse por avoir en prison;
Je nou di mie por nule retraçon,
Mais encor sui je pris.

Obscuratus est sol
Obscuratus est aer
Salva me ab ore dragonis

Je nou di mie por nule retraçon,
Mais encor sui je pris.
Je nou di mie por nule retraçon
Mais encor sui je pris.

No idea who wrote this

https://img.discogs.com/I8FbtcAnhxMGSbOJHXQZVufc-pc=/fit-in/600x587/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-10512530-1499672597-6115.jpeg.jpg

in German, cant understand

Corvus Corax

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Die Klage
From: RunrigFan
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 05:18 PM

made a mistake

meant to reply here known a Die Klage

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Die Klage
From: RunrigFan
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 05:18 PM

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=168083&threadid=168083

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Die Klage
From: Felipa
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 05:46 PM

"Die Klage" is German but lyrics given are in a form of French, plus a segment in Latin. A translation to modern French is given at https://www.moyenagepassion.com/index.php/tag/ja-nuns-hons-pris/

I would not have guessed that "Je nou di mie" = "Je ne le dis pas" I don't say it" , for instance.

So what is the connection with "Die Klage", RunrigFan, and why the new thread? The song is known as "Die Klage"?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 05:59 PM

I moved Runrig's posts over here from a thread he titled "Die Klage" (German for "The Complaint") because they didn't make sense in another thread.
Felipa linked to another page which identifies this song as "la complainte de Richard Coeur de Lyon en occitan" (The complaint of Richard the Lionheart in occitan), but Monique says it's Old French). I'm confused, but I figure it's easier to sort out if it's all in one thread.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: Felipa
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 06:00 PM

no longer a new thread, the Die Klage thread has been combined with the original thread. The German on the discography link is a translation of the old French and Latin verses written above the German.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Ja Nus Hons Pris
From: Monique
Date: 12 Feb 21 - 02:45 AM

To make it clearer, the lyrics posted by RunrigFan are in Old French but the original lyrics I posted are in Old Occitan. Richard's mother was Eleanor of Aquitaine after all and Aquitaine is the Western part of the Occitan speaking area.

@Felipa, the "mie" thing: the actual negative word was (and still is "ne" from Latin from an etymological point of view) but this "ne" is short, unstressed so harder to hear than with any other vowel. So to make the negation more audible they added a word meaning "something little, small, tiny" after the verb to help the understanding, it's why we have "pas" (step) that's become the nowadays main word in the negative form, "mie" (crumble), "point" (dot), "goutte" (drop). Nowadays nobody uses "mie", "goutte" is only used in "on n'y voit goutte", "point" is mainly used in literature. (Wiki article in French about the French negation).