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Apache recorded 60 years ago!
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: punkfolkrocker Date: 25 Jun 20 - 11:44 AM I dictated "happily" but google voice input was obviously vibing too much on the flower power sunshine groove and decided it was a "Happening".. fair enough... ahem... DAVIE ALLAN + THE ARROWS - "APACHE '65" still rockin' live in 2009... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: punkfolkrocker Date: 25 Jun 20 - 11:20 AM Well, for all the thread spoiling moaners stating the obvious that the Shadows were only an anodyne family entertainment pop group. I'm now happening enjoying the sunshine listening to my favourite 1960s instrumental guitar group.. Davie Allan and the Arrows.. Most noted for scoring the groovy rocking fuzzbox mayhem soundtracks of cheap nasty 1960s exploitation biker movies.. The Shadows and the Ventures are the entry drug... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Jun 20 - 11:06 AM Yeah, PFR, the writing is on the wall for all to see. Stay or go? At least he was on topic, dismissive as it was. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Jun 20 - 09:27 AM I think the fact that it’s written in intelligible English, and incorporating proper punctuation precludes it from being one particular member notorious for his rudeness and thread-wrecking behaviour, pfr. But I could hazard a guess at who else it might be, and I’d probably be right first time... Or it could just be a non-member passer-by, poking his shirt-stirring stick in. Either way, it’s not worth responding to. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: punkfolkrocker Date: 25 Jun 20 - 09:10 AM I bet that anonymous GUEST was Hank himself having a laugh with us... I mean, surely no mudcat member would log out just to post that.. Why on earth would he.. errrmmm.. they...??? |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: GUEST,Rossey Date: 25 Jun 20 - 09:01 AM Isn't that the point? It's pop music.. 'popular', this just started off as a thread about the 60th anniversary of a great, catchy and influential instrumental pop tune. Not about the technical art of the guitarist, analysed to death by guitar anoraks. They were never meant to be rock, or R and b gods. They were initially youths playing catchy themed tunes - though they later veered off into experimental areas. That was the point, the popular perceived simplicity of their work was a factor in people picking up guitars.. as much as many others of the time in the pre-Beatle hit days. Hank is now playing Gypsy Jazz. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: GUEST Date: 25 Jun 20 - 03:39 AM Hank Marvin is one of the most over-rated guitarists that ever walked a stage. I'm not saying he wasn't a good guitarist. Indeed, I have heard a fair bit of his playing, and it is clear that the bloke is more than competent. But I cannot accept that he is a great guitarist. Apart from some very ordinary and extremely simplistic guitar songs, Hank Marvin has done absolutely nothing to advance electric guitar technique, or to make me sit back and exclaim "wow!" That's exactly what I expect from a great guitarist. Chuck Berry had a far greater influence on rock music than Hank Marvin ever did. His licks can be heard in the early stuff of Clapton, Page, Keith Richards, Pete Townsend, and many others. And Chuck Berry nicked his stuff from the great black blues guitarists! All Hank Marvin did was take the stuff that the truly great (black) guitarists were playing, slow it down, and add a quirky repetitive dance routine.What Hank had was good simple tunes played well. He inspired others to play guitar because the sound was obtainable. You could hum the tune, you could pick it out on one or two strings in ten minutes. I can remember friends going home from school and playing his records in their lunch hour He was a good guitarist and had a good ear for a catchy tune. But he developed his one sound and stuck with it. The Shadows didn't start having hits until 1960 - I believe Apache was the first one. There had been a whole range of 50's rock'n'roll guitarists beforehand who had far more technique and ability.
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: andrew e Date: 24 Jun 20 - 08:24 AM But they did form Marvin welch and Farrar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C66HgVOlOYg |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: GUEST,Guest Anonyme Date: 24 Jun 20 - 05:59 AM I had a poster of Hank in my bedroom he was gorgeous. However, Hank Marvin has revealed that The Beatles' electric guitar player George Harrison encouraged them to change their approach following the release of Don't Make My Baby Blue. "He told me how much he loved the single,"Hank Marvin commented. "'Take my advice,' he said - 'forget about being an instrumental group and follow up on the vocals'." However, The Shadows did not take this advice - a decision that Hank Marvin said he now regrets. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: GUEST,Rossey Date: 24 Jun 20 - 05:59 AM For guitar anoraks 22 minute analysis of Apache. (I don't play - but can mime, badly). Coming up 25 years in July since Jerry Lordan died - so in another 45 years, the tune will be a trad. work! The original recording itself is out of EU copyright, having been made pre-1962. Wonderful rhythm guitar by Bruce Welch. Guitar Teacher reacts The Shadows Apache |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Jun 20 - 02:45 AM Define "best" :-D |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: GUEST,Guest Anonyme Date: 24 Jun 20 - 02:15 AM Marvin is simply the best guitarist there ever was. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Tattie Bogle Date: 23 Jun 20 - 06:16 PM Wasn't the Hoffnung cartoon vacuum cleaner in the key of Bb? We're on 50hz in the UK. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: GUEST,Roger. Date: 23 Jun 20 - 06:09 PM Apache certainly influenced me to take up the gitter, and I'm still struggling. 17/06/1960, my 11th birthday!! Good to see Hank still going strong at 78. Good thread- back to sanity! Roger. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: punkfolkrocker Date: 23 Jun 20 - 06:09 PM Joe - if I remember correctly, I used to tune to a G off our phone, if I just picked the handset up and didn't dial anything. Also my electric shaver hummed a constant note, again G.. or maybe D...??? Too long ago to remember.. It was brilliant when our band got a Vox organ, and we no longer had to tune off whatever piano we could find at any gig venue... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: punkfolkrocker Date: 23 Jun 20 - 06:04 PM "I suspect the popular acts at the time influenced the source singers ;-)" well as I mentioned earlier in a now disappeared post At 60, Apache is older than most folk revival LPs... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Jun 20 - 06:00 PM What's the frequency of alternating current in England, Dave. It's 60 Hz. in the US, so we've very familiar with a 60-cycle hum, a tone almost exactly halfway between A? and B. So, what's your frequency and its tone? Would an A be 44 Hz? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Jun 20 - 05:57 PM ears |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Jun 20 - 05:31 PM The things we did to get ‘em n tune before electronic tuners were invented! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Jun 20 - 05:25 PM I had a friend used to tune his D string to the hum an IBM tape drive made! |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Bonzo3legs Date: 23 Jun 20 - 05:04 PM I used to tune my guitar to Apache, trouble was we had a gramophone built by my Dad which had an ex GPO turntable marked for 33 1/3 and 78rpm. We made a mark for 45rpm but the belt was worn and so it was different every time! |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:51 PM First tune I learned to play, Al. Long before I even knew how to play E, A and B7! |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: GUEST,big al whittle Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:49 PM i don't find Apache all that easy to play |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:40 PM The Tremeloes! Another band we played support for when Brian Poole was with them and their single of Twist & Shout’ was No. 1 in the chart. A damn fine band and good guys - Alan Blakley lent me his Strat, it was the first one I ever played. At the time it was the biggest crowd I’d played to, about a thousand at a dance-hall gig. This thread has dredged up some great memories, I’m sure there’s more to come... https://youtu.be/IAUFQQeZuFk |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:25 PM I never realised the influence that the Four Seasons had on the Tremeloes but once I knew it was obvious. There's a lot of it about! I suspect the popular acts at the time influenced the source singers ;-) |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Bonzo3legs Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:21 PM That Hank Wangford Band link plays for me in VLC. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: punkfolkrocker Date: 23 Jun 20 - 04:02 PM Jeri - careful.. I might go off on a jimdick* tirade about how 'punk' is the beating primordial heart of all good folk traditions with rebel attitude.. [* a new word, if anyone wants it...] |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: punkfolkrocker Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:54 PM .. and we all know [yes we do...???] how significant an influence the Searchers were on the Byrds, and as a consequence, the entire future of western civilization folk rock... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Jeri Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:53 PM Yes, thanks Stilly. I've seen too much "what is folk", AND the usual combatants to want to deal with it. I've heard Gaughan sing "Ruby Tuesday", and all the Tin Pan Alley and music hall hits-of-the-day, now done as folk to not think the horse thing is something people do when they don't want ANY new songs to get into the "tradition". That said, I don't think Apache will ever be traditional...not unless someone records it on an acoustic guitar. (Yeahbut guitars technically aren't traditional, but so what?) The point is that, in between fights about everything that anyone could possibly disagree with, and actual folk music, an occasional thread about pop isn't a big deal. No punk, though - that would really be too much. ;) Oddly, I'd heard Apache before, but the name didn't ring a bell. Had to go YouTube it. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: punkfolkrocker Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:38 PM DtG - I saw Joe Brown at a west country theater about 10 years ago.. Excellent show.. Also around the same time, the Searchers - top class nostalgia, and still then a good band.. Didn't get Lonnie Donnegan tickets, then sadly it was too late to ever see him at all... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: GUEST,Rossey Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:30 PM I met Bruce Welch (and Jet), at a Joe Meek tribute night. I wish I could have thought of something intelligent to say to him.. but I was dumbstruck. I should have asked about his songwriting, or production work for Cliff and Olivia Newton John, but nope. In the other end of the pub was Jet Harris, once the cool Shadow..with the quiff..(when I met him he'd lost that). Ok the film the 'Young Ones' seems creaky and uncool now.. but one brief scene captures the pre-Beatles instrumental group sound and stage presentation. When they play the Savage, and do the Shadows walk, pointing their guitars in the air..creating screams and a wonderful climax. Apache was part their creation in a way, as they turned a simple Jerry Lordan ukulele tune into a realised work. And it did influence other players all over the world during that period when instrumentals were making the charts. The Shadows themselves did go into other forms of music, and Hank has been working with Gypsy Jazz for a while. Respect due for their influence and place in UK music history, even if you don't get it! I'll shut up now.. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Jun 20 - 03:07 PM Punkfolkrocker - Just a thought for you to see an original in action. Joe Brown is still touring. Well, he will be when venues open again I suppose! He does a good show with many recollections of the 50s and 60s. Here are his tour dates. https://www.ents24.com/uk/tour-dates/joe-brown I know I keep mentioning him but I'm not on his payroll, honest! I just really enjoyed his show a couple of years back. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Jun 20 - 02:18 PM That worried me too, so I didn’t download it. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Jun 20 - 02:10 PM Take a look again at that link, Bonzo. It's something that wants to download instead of open. Can you find a different way to share it? |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Bonzo3legs Date: 23 Jun 20 - 01:29 PM Here's Gary Taylor in The Hank Wangford Band! |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Tattie Bogle Date: 23 Jun 20 - 01:23 PM Thanks Stilly: well moderated! |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Jun 20 - 12:17 PM Great stuff from a Yeller-Belly, Dave! |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Jun 20 - 11:40 AM Thanks, Stilly. Here's a rock and roller playing something that may meet with the approval of the traditionalists :-) Sicilian tarantella |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Jun 20 - 11:11 AM I'm the one who HAS been weeding this thread, and I'm frankly disappointed and disgusted with the nonsense that Jim and Dick, in particular, have visited upon a music thread that doesn't meet their smell test. Tough. If you don't know that blues is the roots of rock, then that's your problem. Go away and talk on other threads about topics that interest you. This is a music thread about a sixty year old song. I learned something from it and enjoyed all of the covers once I started down that YouTube rabbit hole. I just deleted 26 (TODAY ONLY) bickering off topic posts. I've deleted similar numbers in the last couple of days. This may not be a purist lyrics/history thread, but it is a music thread, and it shouldn't need to be down in the BS area. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Jun 20 - 10:51 AM I wouldn’t have recognised him, Bonz - Peter Frampton and Andy Brown are the onlybfaces I recall from The Herd. The only other person I know who played with Hank Wangford is Reg Meuross, although Reg is better known nowadays as a solo singer/songwriter. Here’s one of Reg’s goodies... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Bonzo3legs Date: 23 Jun 20 - 10:28 AM And back to the topic of the thread... Hank Marvin Gypsy-Jazzz - ‘Apache’ Who recognised Gary Taylor on second guitar - formerly of The Herd and later The Hank Wangford Band? |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Vic Smith Date: 23 Jun 20 - 07:17 AM .....Freddie & The Dreamers..... LITTLE KNOWN FACT I bought a 200 watt Carlsboro Amp second hand in 1975 for the first barn dance band that I was in and I bought it from Freddie Garrity and, no, it wasn't a dream! |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Backwoodsman Date: 23 Jun 20 - 06:58 AM And back to the topic of the thread... Hank Marvin Gypsy-Jazzz - ‘Apache’ |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: punkfolkrocker Date: 23 Jun 20 - 06:46 AM Jim - I am one of the few mudcatters who will still defend you.. But in this thread you are acting as out of order intrusively disruptive as Dick was, and now also this anonymous shit stirring Guest [any guesses who...???]... Mods with Max's authority, are telling you this thread is OK at mudcat. REPEAT Mods with Max's authority, are telling you this thread is OK at mudcat. .. got it... Please leave it at that... I along with other mudcatters who'd like to be left alone to enjoythis thread, understand and feel BWMs increasing justifiable anger with you folks who are trying to spoil this thread out of your own petty personal resentment.. Please show your mudcat mates proper consideration, and stop invading this thread with peevish negativity... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Jun 20 - 06:22 AM Anyway, I like everything except for most j*zz. It all started for me with Hildegard of Bingen... And the older I get the less inclined I am to categorise... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: GUEST,Rossey Date: 23 Jun 20 - 05:19 AM When Alan Merrill (writer of I Love Rock n' roll) popped off due to CV19; I put a tribute thread on, as others had done so with musicians and singers of all genres. It was also to highlight, how CV19 was affecting musicians. If it is a fixed rule for the community, that musicians, singers, and writers - are to only be put on here if they are of a certain profile, then I will hold to that. It frequently seems to stray into other areas of music, and often you get grey areas as to where some artists and writers belong, as they may have had varied careers playing and recording in different fields. Recordings may be fluid as to where they fit in genres (Does Country Music get banned?). Anniversaries are generally no big deal in the scheme of things, just an arbitrary imposition. A load of them will be coming along due to the 60's and 70's being a golden age of music. If Hank, Bruce, or Brian Bennett of the Shadows one day pop off..and other genres separate to strict folk are still allowed, I would hope that a respectful tribute thread would be posted giving their place in the history of music, without unnecessary disparaging comments from people whose taste is out of step with popular music. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Jun 20 - 06:43 PM Bit before my time, Bonzo, but good music from any era will survive. It was probably 67 before I started taking notice. In later times I discovered the timeless Buddy Holly and many others including The Four Seasons, the Everly brothers and Joe Brown! All eras, genres and cultures have their good and bad music. The good always lasts while the bad falls by the wayside. |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Bonzo3legs Date: 22 Jun 20 - 06:11 PM A few 45s were candidates for playing over and over again - like Kon Tiki by the Shadows, Peter Gunn by Duane Eddy, Son of a Gun by Sandford Clark, Susie Darlin' by Robin Luke, Somethin' Else & My Way by Eddie Cochran, Good Golly Miss Molly by Screaming Lord Sutch & The Savages, many by Buddy Holly, The Train Kept a Rollin' by Johnny Burnette Rock N Roll Trio |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Steve Shaw Date: 22 Jun 20 - 06:00 PM Well calling Apache a pop song doesn't do it for me at all. There must be thousands of sixties pop songs that are so forgettable that I've forgotten them all. But I can honestly say that if you say "Shads Apache" it triggers an immediate pleasurable earworm in me, and I can equally honestly say that it's been like that with me for about sixty years. Certain tracks are seminal, iconic, or whatever other tiredly pretentious words one could apply, and Apache is right up there. I'll make a list of some others some time. That'll cause a fight... |
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Subject: RE: Apache recorded 60 years ago! From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Jun 20 - 04:03 PM Amen to that, Jeri. |
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