This land is WHOSE land?

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 01:32 PM

Here are the verses I know to be Woody's and they are the way I sing it. What are the verses Seeger did that were meant to be divisive.

This Land,

From the California, to the New York Island
From the Redwood Forest, to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and me

As I went walking that ribbon of highway
I saw above me that endless skyway
I saw below me that golden valley
This land was made for you and me

I've roamed and rambled, and I've followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
All around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for you and me

When the sun comes shining as I was strolling
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice came chanting
This land was made for you and me

As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said "No trespassin'"
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me

Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me


Seeger added this verse:

    This land is your land, but it once was my land
    Before we sold you Manhattan Island
    You pushed my nation to the reservation,
    This land was stole by you from me.

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 12:57 PM

Are we talking about Guthrie's song or the abridged version by Seeger?
One bears no relationship to the other. Woody wrote a positive anthem to a new nation, Seeger used it to spread negativity and discord.

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 11:53 AM

When it becomes all about politics, it gets moved. If the discussion's related to the song, it stays above the line.
Stilly, I hadn't realized it was in BS, because GUESTs were posting.

This is a good article the Conversation - The misguided attacks on ‘This Land Is Your Land’

---

It was moved just as you posted, then moved back up after you posted. Odds are it will move once again. ---mudelf
I'll try to delete the political posts/fights fast enough. --another mod

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 11:48 AM

I was at Resurrection City on The Poor Peoples Campaign in 1968 when Jimmy Collier asked Henry Crow Dog about the etiquette of singing this song. Pete Seeger, standing nearby was a little confounded by the question. He hadn't thought of the song in that respect.

Mar Ross

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: GUEST,Derriick
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 11:35 AM

The verse quoted by cnd reminds me of a sketch in a tv comedy show,with Tracy Ulman and Lennie Henry.
It consisted of a TV interview with Chief Sitting Bull.
One of the questions was "What did your people call America before the
White man arrived.
The answer "Ours"

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: GUEST,cnd
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 11:24 AM

London Old Man, here at Mudcat we have 2 types of threads: those about music (above "the line") and thos about non-musical topics (below the line, also known as BS). Normally, a thread will be started intentionally as being one or the other (for example, BS threads will often be lists if jokes, political discussion, etc). However, if the tread or the discussion it generates is deemed to be not of a musical nature (due to either its content or the discussion it generates) it can be moved to the BS section. An important point here is that it's not necessarily your fault for starting the thread; it could have good intentions, but certain people can't seem to play nice, so it gets moved to BS because of that. It doesn't help that lately a number of threads masquerading as music posts have been started but generated by-and-large less-than-musical responses.

Here's an interesting link discussing Seeger's opinion in the song and much of what I think you're going for: https://theconversation.com/the-misguided-attacks-on-this-land-is-your-land-121169

From that article comes this additional stanza Seeger would sometimes add:

This land is your land, but it once was my land
    Before we sold you Manhattan Island
    You pushed my nation to the reservation,
    This land was stole by you from me.

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 11:14 AM

If it is indeed a famous "Protest Song" then it is surely, by definition, impossible to separate the "Protest" from the "Song".

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: London OldMan
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 10:48 AM

Don't understand this music vs BS business (not being a regular round here).

I have a point to make about a 'famous' protest song. Is that a 'musical' point, or, being a political point, relegated into BS (which I take it doesn't mean British Socialism)?

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 10:44 AM

I never looked at those a missing verses. I sang them every time I sang the song. Still do.

Don

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 10:23 AM

Okay, Jeri made it into a music thread instead of a fighting thread, so it's back up top.

Keep it a music thread or it's going back down to the BS again.

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: London OldMan
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 10:23 AM

Okay, but not sure that those 'missing' verses refer to the people who a mere century before were being slaughtered like animals.

There was a big hole in 'protest' songs - in the States, it was always the 'Indian' people, and sometimes the black ones. In the UK, it was often the victims of this country's imperialism, of whatever colour. And of course in both cultures, women's interests have only crept in recently!

We are all capable of being criticised, however noble our intentions are - Woody Guthrie included. But this is not an attack on Guthrie, or US protest songs, just a plea for those that got left out.

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 10:11 AM

Like it or loathe it the US is a new nation created by immigrants. these immigrants were in the most part forging new lives for themselves and needed songs to bond them together....sure there were casualties, but there will always be casualties in any society. A great number of Gaels from my country were forced away from their homes and helped to build you new nation....get a grip and look forward Guthrie was positive, not negative.

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 10:07 AM

Thanks to the British folks for bringing this up.
You do realize the song is a protest song, and a couple of the verses were pretty clear on that topic?
The underlying feeling is that this land is ALL of our (Americans) land, and we should remember that.

These verses are left our of some versions. Thank goodness Pete Seeger sang them when he performed at Obama's inauguration.

As I went walking I saw a sign there,
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing.
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 09:58 AM

That is exactly why I never liked this ode to manifest destiny.

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: London OldMan
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 09:55 AM

True, and fair enough. But don't you see any connection between Black Lives Matter and (not that there is such a campaign!) Red Lives Matter?

You can't have pride in your heritage if you ignore bits of it!

Subject: RE: This land is WHOSE land?
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 09:50 AM

I think the aim of the author was to promote a little National pride into the listeners, something which is required today more than ever before.
Have a a bit of pride in your country and its heros.

Subject: This land is WHOSE land?
From: London OldMan
Date: 15 Jul 20 - 09:43 AM

Out of interest, did anyone every question Guthrie on his famous 'This land is your land' song?

Or, did anyone write a politically (more) correct version, on the basis that 'this land ain't your land, this land ain't my land, this land was stole for you and me'...?