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BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon

robomatic 18 Jul 20 - 08:32 PM
Mrrzy 19 Jul 20 - 02:28 PM
Donuel 19 Jul 20 - 02:53 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Jul 20 - 07:41 PM
EBarnacle 19 Jul 20 - 10:25 PM
Stilly River Sage 19 Jul 20 - 11:28 PM
Mrrzy 21 Jul 20 - 09:54 AM
Donuel 21 Jul 20 - 01:51 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 Jul 20 - 03:30 PM
Rapparee 21 Jul 20 - 06:15 PM
Donuel 21 Jul 20 - 07:20 PM
Donuel 22 Jul 20 - 08:00 AM
Rapparee 22 Jul 20 - 09:45 AM
Donuel 22 Jul 20 - 10:04 AM
Mrrzy 22 Jul 20 - 04:25 PM
robomatic 22 Jul 20 - 06:18 PM
gillymor 23 Jul 20 - 05:03 AM
Donuel 23 Jul 20 - 07:23 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 Jul 20 - 12:26 PM
Donuel 23 Jul 20 - 04:02 PM
Joe Offer 23 Jul 20 - 05:28 PM
robomatic 23 Jul 20 - 05:49 PM
Donuel 25 Jul 20 - 10:09 AM
Mrrzy 25 Jul 20 - 12:26 PM
Joe Offer 26 Jul 20 - 12:44 AM
Donuel 27 Jul 20 - 07:33 AM
Donuel 27 Jul 20 - 10:45 AM
Stilly River Sage 27 Jul 20 - 10:52 AM
Donuel 28 Jul 20 - 08:37 AM
robomatic 28 Jul 20 - 09:12 PM
Joe Offer 29 Jul 20 - 03:07 AM
Penny S. 29 Jul 20 - 05:23 AM
Donuel 29 Jul 20 - 08:52 AM
Joe Offer 29 Jul 20 - 11:06 AM
Stilly River Sage 29 Jul 20 - 11:40 AM
Joe Offer 29 Jul 20 - 11:50 AM
Joe Offer 29 Jul 20 - 12:01 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 Jul 20 - 01:06 PM
Donuel 29 Jul 20 - 03:07 PM
Donuel 29 Jul 20 - 03:19 PM
Penny S. 29 Jul 20 - 05:32 PM
Donuel 29 Jul 20 - 05:52 PM
Penny S. 29 Jul 20 - 06:13 PM
Joe Offer 30 Jul 20 - 12:52 AM
Penny S. 30 Jul 20 - 04:09 AM
Jeri 30 Jul 20 - 08:09 AM
Mrrzy 30 Jul 20 - 09:08 AM
robomatic 30 Jul 20 - 09:21 AM
Donuel 30 Jul 20 - 09:53 AM
Jeri 30 Jul 20 - 01:18 PM

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Subject: BS: Police violence in Portland ORegon
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jul 20 - 08:32 PM

Are there Mudcatters in or near Portland. I've been there a few times and in the last few weeks I was hearing right-wing opiners complaining that there were violent protests in the streets of Portland and the mass media were ignoring it.
Now comes this violence on the part of the municipal police. A non-lethal weapon used to break the head of a protester.
It's not quite the same thing but I remember in '03 when a Boston police officer killed a woman with a 'non-lethal' weapon by aiming at her head. She was an onlooker at a Red Sox street celebration. The Boston chief of police admitted right away that it was a misuse of weapon and a big mistake.

I'm not as aware of the situation in Portland, just that I've always found it a welcoming and relaxed city with room for political freedom in all directions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland ORegon
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 02:28 PM

Yeah, I've been following this too. I think they're all bozos on that armored bus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland ORegon
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 02:53 PM

Don't crush that dwarf hand me the pliers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland ORegon
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 07:41 PM

Trump's federal officers are picking up peaceful protesters and it sounds like they're exacerbating things, trying to make things look worse so Trump can claim a law-and-order move by sending in feds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland ORegon
From: EBarnacle
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 10:25 PM

This is looking more and more like a rehearsal for November 3. I hope I'm wrong but I'm not counting on it. The Brownshirts are out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland ORegon
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jul 20 - 11:28 PM

Evidence shows Portland police working with federal officers at protests, contradicting city officials

Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler has repeatedly said the police force he oversees does not want or need the help of federal officers during nightly protests downtown.

But hours after Wheeler’s most recent public plea for federal agents to leave, Portland police advanced on protesters in a coordinated effort with federal officers. Friday wasn’t the first time Portland police worked in tandem with federal officers. Portland police and federal officers marched shoulder-to-shoulder early Sunday morning to disperse protesters downtown.

Yet Wheeler and the Portland Police Bureau have denied any role in the decisions and operations of federal officers first seen in Portland June 27.

In the three weeks since, Department of Homeland Security officers have drawn criticism for arresting Portlanders and loading them into unmarked minivans, leading to national outcry. A U.S. Marshals officer shot a 26-year-old protester, Donavan La Bella, in the face with an impact munition, critically injuring him. The federal forces have drawn widespread criticism for using chemical weapons and impact rounds, and otherwise physically engaging protesters who do not appear to be a threat.

Portland police have said they provided “help” to federal officers at their request on the night of La Bella’s shooting July 11. While testifying Friday to state lawmakers about the agency’s use of tear gas, Deputy Chief Chris Davis disclosed that a member of the Federal Protective Service is in the Portland Police command post during downtown demonstrations.

At a press conference happening the same time as the legislative hearing, Portland Police Chief Chuck Lovell confirmed the two forces share real-time plans with one another.


It sounds like the mayor and the police chief have to sort things out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jul 20 - 09:54 AM

I posted about the Wall of Moms on the BLM thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jul 20 - 01:51 PM

??? These are not police being sent to Democratic cites to foment violence, they are a mix of Border patrol, ICE, and HLS.

The evolution of these unmarked "troops" are from; patrol to agents to guards to police to now Troops. Their mission excuse is to protect statues by beating gassing and kidnapping protestors in Minivans???.

The next city on the Trump list is Chicago. There I expect it will become a shooting war with martyrs and Trump retribution.
History repeats. Goons in military outfits but no armbands are but a missing link to Trump's Blackshirts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jul 20 - 03:30 PM

A UK media perspective...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53473732


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Jul 20 - 06:15 PM

THESE ARE NOT MILITARY TROOPS! They are not National Guard. They are, basically, untrained in crowd control. They would be the "open fire" sort that blackened the Guard's reputation at Kent State.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jul 20 - 07:20 PM

All the reports mention border patrol and ICE

"Ask not what I can do for you.
Ask what I will do to you"


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 20 - 08:00 AM

Trump can federalize a state's national guard but a govenor must ask.
The last time it was done was by our old friend George W in 1992 in the LA California racism riots.

In Chicago suppose the govenor orders the National Guard to stand down but Trump orders them to Chicago. What happens?
This could be a camoflaged dress rehearsal for this November.
In the event Trump loses the election he could send National Guard troops to our cities if they prove loyal in this latest threat to Chicago.
The last civil war officially began in Fort Sumpter.
Where will it be in November?


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jul 20 - 09:45 AM

Not for a riot, he can't. Read the Constitution! The Pres can call out the militia for a war or rebellion, and then the federal government must pay them and treat them like regular troops. Within a state he can't even declare martial law -- only the Governor can do that, and then the NG would go in first. Examine the riots of the 1960s -- Watts, Chicago, Detroit. Federal troops were used ONLY after the request of the Governor and aas back-up for the NG. I know; I was there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 20 - 10:04 AM

Much of this is crafted by AG Barr. He is claiming they are protecting Federal buildings/monuments in cities of their choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Jul 20 - 04:25 PM

Yeah, this is baad, m'kay?


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jul 20 - 06:18 PM

There's an interesting column by Thomas Friedman using the argument that the Fed Administration under the Current Occupant is using unrest in Portland as a 'wag-the-dog' tactic to gather support for the November elections. While cynical, it gains its credibility by violence among the protestors, or instigated in the protester's names.

While I was initially motivated to write about an incident where the police wounded someone with a "non-lethal" weapon, what is happening is far more complicated by the presence of multiple levels of government enforcement, not at all coordinated, and indeed even possibly in opposition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Jul 20 - 05:03 AM

He's getting push back on this from big city mayors-Business Insider

Chicago Mayor Lori Litghtfoot tweeted- Under no circumstances will I allow Donald Trump’s troops to come to Chicago and terrorize our residents.
7:02 PM · Jul 21, 2020

I've no doubt these quasi-nazi tactics are nothing more than trump's bizarre campaign strategy of locking down his brain-dead base while alientating every nearly every other constituency. He seems incapable of doing anything as president that he doesn't judge to be of benefit to himself politically or financially. I wouldn't be surprised to see his "brownshirts" show up at the polls in minority districts to intimidate voters this fall as the RNC is recruiting an inordinate amount of poll watchers in key states, up to 50,000, to ensure "ballot security" for the election- The Guardian
. This could be why the old huckster is disparaging mail-in voting (in the midst of a pandemic for chrissake!), he wants to be able to turn them away physically on November 3.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jul 20 - 07:23 AM

Yeah, I do not doubt Trump could declare martial law right before the election. He has already declared another national emergency regarding "an extreme reaction to George Floyd".


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jul 20 - 12:26 PM

Trouble is, even if trump drops dead from natural causes,
his fukwit fanbase would cry out "assassin...!!!
and go mental in revenge...


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jul 20 - 04:02 PM

Q-Anon fans who went directly from 6th grade to ConspiraciesRus.com and found each other on Facebook are not as numerous as feared. Also the Military in this country so far have not been willing to abandon law and the Constitution for Trump's ego. However...
The crazier the orders and actions that Trump gets away with, the easier it is to do the next step claiming some recent illegal precedent makes it all OK.

The American people fell for the PTL club, Limbaugh, Glen Beck and now Trump, but Fascism in the age of pandemic is to far for us to fall.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jul 20 - 05:28 PM

Donuel, the misinformation you post is annoying. You should factcheck more and post less.

Alan Dershowitz has some interesting but mostly inconclusive things about the President's right to send troops for domestic purposes:
Here's what Trump has to say about it. He's frightening:


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jul 20 - 05:49 PM

Thank you Joe. As I've said before, I'd rather have Don'l taking the other side. The repetitive posts that combine opinion with non-fact is worthy of the Current Occupant. It's like having Trump on your side. But still being Trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 10:09 AM

Well Joe you have the final say. Please provide the offical news source you prefer and what opinions I should have, historicly and currently.
Thanks so much for providing the new cancel culture guidance.
The verdict is 2 against 1 annoyance in the 1st degree.
Donuel


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 12:26 PM

Also, it's not, at this point, the police force being the jack-booted thugs. To be fair.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 12:44 AM

I'm singing with people from Portland tonight. Many have participated in the demonstrations. They say that the demonstrators are about 95% peaceful, and 5% violent troublemakers - and many of the troublemakers come from out of town. Paul Rippey is singing for us from the demonstration.

Would you Portland people agree with this?

Donuel, when you post things, I would suggest merely that you look the information up before posting, and give us your sources of information. You are the absolute worst source of misinformation at Mudcat. You're worse than Trump. You really are. And by far, you are the most prolific US poster in the BS section, maybe even worldwide. Your lies are an embarrassment, and you make intelligent discussion nearly impossible. You're a very likeable person and I think you're a good guy, but I think your misinformation is a real problem here. Post less, and think more. Your opinions are fine, for the most part, but the "facts" you give us are often incorrect or outright lies. So many of the Trump supporters are like that - they cannot separate factual data from opinion. You've be far more welcome here if you took your time, and gave us quality posts instead of quantity.


-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 20 - 07:33 AM

I understand the vector of your thought Joe within the boundaries of your awareness. We will never intersect. Imagine yourself as x on a graph, its primary, necessary and linear. I am z' (Things to come).
For the big things I am for the most part correct be it civil war dichotomies or pandemic possibilities and I'm often wrong which is required in my quantum realities of wave collapse. These subjects are in my posting repertoire for 20 years. You think of me as worse than Trump and I think of you as voting for Charles Limburg if you existed in your father's or grandfather's time. You can not see my dimension of z' and I do not exist clearly on your x axis. After 20 years you can not be sure I am good or evil. I am not a dimensional bigot and therefore do not think ill of you. As typical to the Cassandra effect my warnings do not change hardly a thing. Its just the way things are, you can not escape the linear x vector and it ain't easy being z' (Things to Come). At best I am bored with the x axis and you you think I am imaginary.
If you want the BS section to be a news service why call it BS?


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 20 - 10:45 AM

btw z' (Z Prime) exists on an xyz axis but points in a direction that you can not.

BLM protest in TX becomes fatal. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/26/us/austin-shooting-texas-protests.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jul 20 - 10:52 AM

This is the BS section and while it would be helpful for Donuel to post his sources I don't find him as unreliable as you do, Joe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 08:37 AM

Warning: strong opinion
America has done a few stupid disgraceful things in its time
and you can probably count them on your fingers and toes but none so stupid as Operation Legend. It is more stupid than sending troops
on a new mission 'Back to Iraq 3'. The President is bored with the war on pandemic and has decided to attack America's arch enemy Portland. In fact many US cities are in the battle plans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/22/protests-portland-updates/

In this war there are 4 sides;
The citizens of Portland demonstrating for civil rights.
The local police who confront a minprity of goons and trouble makers
The goons of conspiracy be they white supreamists or other.
Mock Federal rioter troops in Camoflage.

Take down Democratic stronghold cities and the current goverment believes it wins the ongoing civil war. In the first civil war there were procateurs like John Brown. In this one we have George Floyd.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 09:12 PM

Don'l I wish there was a way to have an audio waveform going "woo-woo" for those reading your posts while reading your posts. I can hear them even if you cannot.
You self-indicate most of the time by your inattention to spelling or possibly by your attentive surrealist splingsl and yptos.
Again, I find them sometimes fun except when anything with serious repercussions needs to be addressed. It's like having a physics discussion and someone chimes in with e=mc cubed. And justifying it by claiming to be from another "dimnension." YOU are that dim nension.

I've said it before...are you gonzo brilliant or merely random?


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 03:07 AM

So, anyhow, I wanted to say something about the "Trump Troopers" who are being shipped to Portland. As some of you may know, I did US Government security clearance investigations for 25 years, and many of those investigations were on peace officers. The U.S. government has two kinds of peace officers. Most are generally required to have a college degree, and these officers are given excellent training - often involving training at the FBI Academy. These peace officers are among the best in the world.

And then there's the other kind, the ones I used to call "wannabees." They could get on the job with a high school diploma and six weeks to six months of training at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) in Brunswick (Glynco), Georgia (where that Black jogger was killed earlier this year). They spend most of their careers sitting around and waiting for something to happen - prison guards, marshals who serve mostly as bailiffs in courtrooms, and the building guards who serve in the Federal Protective Service (FPS). They had police authority and kept wanting to act like cops, but their job really didn't allow them to do actual police work. I knew of one FPS office where the officers were taking a class on how to get rich quick by filing bankruptcy. When they'd get bored, they would take their US government cars out on the freeway and make traffic stops - they had the authority to do that, but that wasn't their job. And there was one officer I investigated who had molested his stepdaughter, and he did all sorts of power games to try to stop me from finding out about him. Wannabe cops are like that - they power games because they have no real power.

The officers who are controlling things in Portland, are these second kind of federal officer. They get bored, and power gives them a thrill. I don't think it's a good idea to allow them to wage political warfare in our cities.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Penny S.
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 05:23 AM

That's interesting. And worrying.
Is there any connection with the Bortac group I read about here?
Border patrol in Portland


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 08:52 AM

Joe you make no mention of the radical right wing supremacists who are purportedly causing the trouble and not the antifa scists. You did say your friends estimate their number at 5%, which seems like alot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 11:06 AM

Yes, Donuel, there are a few right-wing agitators. There are also left-wing extremists who resort to violence and vandalism and looting. Five percent seems to be a good guess at the number, from what people tell me. It's hard to tell whether people are right or left when they're just out to destroy things.

I belong to a social justice advocacy group outside Sacramento. Last year, we held an "Educate to Advocate" forum at a local Methodist church, and it was a very nice event. Since I was the only Anglo on the committee, I was appointed to be the bouncer. We had one white supremacist person attending, and he stood in a corner and livestreamed our meeting on his phone, no doubts adding comments to ridicule and attack what our people were saying. We had a question and answer period at the end of the morning, and people were supposed to submit questions in writing. This young man stepped forward and proceeded to make an anti-immigrant statement, and the organizers of the forum asked me to get him to leave. I told him twice that he had to leave, and then I took him gently by the arm and led him out of the building. He kept shouting that I was assaulting him, and then he swung his fist at me and knocked my glasses off.

When we got outside the building, there were about 8 people in their 20s and 30s. They jumped on the guy and one woman slugged him, and then they held him until the cops came. I didn't know who these young vigilantes were, but somebody said they were antifa. Whatever the case was, they were clearly left-wingers and they were spoiling for a fight.

On the fringes of just about any political event in the last half century, there are going to be some people on the sidelines who are looking to fight. They may be on the left or right - it really doesn't matter what their politics are, because they're present for the thrill of the fight. I think it's safe to say that the number of such people at the Portland demonstrations and probably in most of the demonstrations, is about 5 percent.

The trouble is, Trump and his troopers, and many police officers, and the right-wing yahoos who live around me, and some Catholic bishops and priests and Evangelical pastors, all think that ALL the demonstrators are causing the injuries and destruction, and they put the blame on Black Lives Matter and denounce it as a subversive organization.

Right-wing radio host Glenn Beck is a Catholic turned Mormon, and my Facebook feed had a Glenn Beck video directed at Catholics and encouraging them to despise Black Lives Matter. I immediately went to the Black Lives Matter Website and donated a hundred bucks in Glenn Beck's name. Bastard.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 11:40 AM

Not exactly on topic but related, last night PBS played a new Frontline that addressed the conspiracy theories of Alex Jones ("Infowars") and his influence on Trump and Roger Stone. It all fits in with what drives this contractor who are being sent in lieu of real police or National Guard, etc. Trump can't control them, but he can push the buttons of these wannabe cops. The program was downright depressing and scary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 11:50 AM

Hi, Penny -
Until I retired in 1999, I had contact with the Border Patrol and Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) a few times a week, so I knew these interconnected parts of the Department of Justice very well. The Department of Homeland Security was established in 2002, and that resulted in a near-total reorganization of Federal law enforcement.

The Border Patrol and INS were no longer a united agency. They were separated into U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) and U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, both under the Department of Homeland Security. Customs was transferred from Treasury.

Another agency, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), was formed as part of the Department of Homeland Security. This agency is more of a police agency than the other former parts of INS. It conducts raids at workplaces and other sites in the interior of the United States, while CBP patrols the border. I worked at the border only once, in the summer of 1996 San Diego and very hot El Centro California. Even then, the Border Patrol was a paramilitary organization, living in barracks and using military weapons and vehicles. All of them had to speak Spanish - I don't know if that is still required. And many INS and Border Patrol employees were Latino or married to Latinos - I don't know if that's still the case.

In the 24 years since my experience on the border, border controls have become more and more militarized. There was a chain link fence or no fence at all for long distances along the border. I like to go to the California desert looking for wildflowers in March, so I often stay in El Centro and take a few minutes to visit the border in Calexico to see the classic old border hotel and other things - and to watch the changes in the border fence. The last time I was there, was still during he Obama Administration. The chain link fence was more like 15 feet high, and made of heavy metal bars. Our border controls have become more and more militarized through the Bush, Obama, and Trump administrations. I can't say I thought much of Obama's border policies, either.

I visited the border in El Paso, Texas, in November 2016. It was far less fortified than the border in California, but it was quite well divided by a railroad yard and a river in a concrete ditch, supplemented by 8-foot chain link fences and lots of bright lights. I went to the border between Michigan and Ontario in August 2019, but didn't see much in the way of border fortifications because the border is all water. In both El Paso and Michigan, it was very quick and easy to drive out of the United States. There was a traffic jam miles long coming back into the US, and it looked like the wait would be well over an hour. It was nothing like the easy trips I made across the borders into the 1990s.

So, that's the border situation, not that it has all that much to do with Portland. But my point is that Customs and Border Patrol is becoming more and more militarized.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 12:01 PM

SRS, if the local Facebook groups are indicative of what people in this area really think, it seems like huge numbers of them are totally driven by conspiracy theories. They absolutely refuse to believe what seems like common sense to us.

This conspiracy theory thinking is especially common among Roman Catholics, Evangelical Christians, and peace officers. Not all, but far too many.

They're convinced that all the cities with "Democrat" mayors are ruled by violent socialists who are about to impose an New World Order on the nation.

Makes me wonder what hope there is for this country.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 01:06 PM

Hearings this week (today?) are supposed to be addressing some of these problems. Zuckerberg, Bezos, others are to appear. They all serve as hosts for this nonsense in one way or another by leaving it unchallenged on their sites.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 03:07 PM

"$100 In his name" Ha
Your perspective on immigration control is interesting.
Today it sounds more like immigration torture camps


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 03:19 PM

Sounds like Portland is still pleading for a cease-fire.
I don't see Trump negotiating a treaty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Penny S.
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 05:32 PM

Joe, We have a friend over here who seems to be accessing the theories you cite above. She's not religiously in any of the denominations you have mentioned, but has sent us stuff from a Catholic - can't remember his status, has served in the Vatican, convinced that Trump (or he wants to convince people that Trump) is chosen by God to head the fight of good against evil. She is also convinced that 98% of Democrats are communists (she sent links to someone's Youtube) and has dropped friends in that party because of it. She says Antifa is run by the Chinese. We try to counter it but she won't accept evidence from the MSM, or Snopes. She doesn't diss the Guardian as much as I expect from her political association though.
I may lose her as a friend when I acknowledge my natural leaning to anarcho-syndicalism. Which would be a shame, as out of that stuff she's supportive and helpful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 05:52 PM

Penny if you can keep her as a friend good for yu, if she decides she can not be yours, shame on her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Penny S.
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 06:13 PM

I'm recalling more about the two sources.The Catholic has an Italianate name beginning with V, has been a legate to the USA, and has worked to investigate child abuse in the Catholic Church. The piece I read sounded not very sane, and veered towards antisemitism from a few dogwhistles in it. The Youtube was from a New Zealander called Loudon, who I suspect does not feel at home with the nation's current leadership.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 12:52 AM

Hi, Penny - yeah, that's Archbishop Archbishop Viganò, former Papal Nuncio (Ambassador) to the United States. I think he's using the child abuse scandal as leverage, not because he has any concern about the issue himself. He's one of many right-wingers trying to overthrow Pope Francis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Penny S.
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 04:09 AM

One of the things I read about Vigano was that he had let go the issue of one particular abuser he had been asked to deal with while in the States, which wasn't encouraging. The letter he had published fitted in with two documents I have come across from people who I had reason to suppose were being treated for mental health issues. One I am sure of, a friend with schizophrenia, usually harmless, but with detailed fantasies of how life is organised. The other was a letter which turned up via the Guardian after I had a letter on education published. I have yet to decipher it, but it didn't include any references to new world orders or international bankers.
Something about the syntax of Vigano's piece suggested it was not thought through with intelligence fully engaged. Being able to point out the anti-semitism was helpful with the person who thought he was worthy of respecting.
If all Popes were like Pope Francis, I might abandon my objections to surrendering my conscience to one man. From the calibre of his enemies, he seems to be on the right side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 08:09 AM

Sorry to interrupt the discussion of Catholic child abuse and large tech companies (I probably missed something else), but somebody on NPR (and on Facebook, and probably a load of other places) thinks Portland, and Trump's other enemy cities is a practice run for martial law. Voter suppression, and who knows what else. I don't know how it's possible to fight back, with all the ducks being brought into line.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 09:08 AM

I read today they are pulling out.

In a related aside, I used to think it was called Onanism because only one person did it. At a time, that is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 09:21 AM

"If you can keep your head while all about you are losing theirs..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 09:53 AM

There have been 63 continuous days of demonstrations in Portland.
If you haven't heard I don't blame you but I don't know what you don't know. You could go to the real donald trump on twitter and/or the Wasington Post. Its up to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Police violence in Portland Oregon
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 01:18 PM

Don, I'm willing to bet nobody can figure out who tf you're talking to.

It took Trumps goons showing up for the real violence to start. Now, he'd moving on to other cities. The Gandhi/MLK non-violence only work if the other guys have a conscience, or people are willing to die to turn public opinion. And the "public" these days is a creep.


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