BS: Trump Actions & Effects (NO new Trmp threads!)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM

This is the 21st Century, why would a modern democracy like the USA
still allow a king.. oops.. president
absolute powers to decree pardons on the merest royal.. oops.. presidential whim...!!!?????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 11:22 AM

The US President issues a ceremonial pardon to a turkey every Thanksgiving.
[But I have heard somewhere that the turkey's reprieve expires not long after the close of the ceremony.]

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 02:12 PM

I'm catching up on this thread now that it is re-opened, but this was a good article:

Donald Trump was a 'demagogue president' and 'sociopath', says former FBI director James Comey

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 02:17 PM

The link posted by McGrath of Harlow 20 Jan 21 - 04:03 AM about receiving public funding didn't work but the page with general information is here:

Understanding public funding of presidential elections

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 02:21 PM

I still don't [perhaps never will] understand how the supposed beacon of planetary democracy
hands such absolute powers to one individual human being,
on the presumption a president will not turn out to be too crazy evil...?????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 03:19 PM

Well, one crazy evil every couple of hundred years is all right, isn't it? Not a bad innings.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects¿
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 03:36 PM

"why would a modern democracy like the USA..."

The thing is the USA is not "a modern democracy". It's constitutional arrangements are 250 years old, and it's virtually impossible to adjust them to match the needs and the possibilities of today's world. The undead Founding Fathers still have the last word, and the President has powers that even King George never had.

It's amazing the place can even function.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 03:37 PM

A hard won revolutionary war to escape the tyranny of British monarchy..

So the victorious free democratic yanks then go and hand a presidential leader far more absolute arbitrary powers
than our ornamental old Queen Lizzie could ever dream of...!!!????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM

Two Brits cross posting on the same basic point..

Yank mates, you might need a rethink...???

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:22 PM

As sore loser brits celebrate the fall of the US constitution it is actully alive and well. It was Rupurt Murdoch and a private company that had the most deleterious results on the minds of people talked into victimhood and lies. The US has racist woes and brits have a few of their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:26 PM

Sore loser Brits? You're a bit twisted, mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:54 PM

" It was Rupurt Murdoch and a private company that.."

.. it's you yanks, with your too easily abused political & legal systems,
wot took your eye off the ball
and nearly let a new wannabe h1tler rule the world..

No good blaming any bugger else...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 06:22 PM

To be fair, it wasn't all yanks. We've lived through a bloody nightmare for four years (yanks more than anyone), and enough yanks have recoiled in order to end it...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 06:24 PM

I wanted to respond to McGrath thinking I'd confused Botswana with Zimbabwe. Going back to that list of Democracies, no I hadn't. The U.S. still listed much much higher than Zimbabwe, but the Economist, which I think makes up the list of democracies, had placed the U.S. in a population listed as 'troubled'. But the standards of that list are still relatively high and we are still ahead of Botswana.

Good Times.

Wouldn't surprise me if we do a bit of climbing on that list after the most recent U.S. election.

SRS has started a fresh thread specifically for legal and legislative repercussions to the former Occupant. I think this thread still has validity to societal and political implications that involve The Donald and his acolytes, because they are not going away.

Back to troubled democracies:

I had omitted from my list the most Trump-like of the other South American leaders: Bolsanaro of Brazil.

Subject: RE: BS: BIDEN Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 06:41 PM

Joe is calm cool and collected as he makes humane decisions.
Joes religion is integral to his personality unlike aprosletizing Christians and a back biting Christian I've met here. His intellect is substantial enough to follow science while his predesesor could not.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 07:12 PM

Nice thoughts, Don'l. We'll SEE.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 07:52 PM

"To be fair, it wasn't all yanks."

well.. if the Dems hadn't so self-defeatingly selected such a lame candidate as Clinton to oppose trump...

Couldn't they hear us all on this side of the Atlantic
groaning in exasperation at how crap she was...!!!?????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 09:02 PM

You forgot. We put clothes pins on our noses and voted for democracy's sake .

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 09:30 PM

I was all for Hillary in '08, only changed to Obama for non-Hillary reasons. And was glad I did; just wish I could've voted for him a third time. And in a way, I did.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:24 AM

Sore Brit? The only thing I'd be sore at is being accused of being a Brit. (And I've never in my life met any "Brit" who has the least resentment at the American Revolution. It seems to be seen generally as very much a sideshow, a warm-up event for the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars.)

But there is something strange about the quasi-religious attitude that seems to pervade how many Americans in regard to the details of far-off time. It's different to the way other countries seem to treat their analogous events. The French Revolution or the Easter Rising are honoured and celebrated, but they aren't seen as setting the boundaries of how things should be today.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:14 AM

yes, I've noticed how even some supposedly liberal progressive yanks,
can still get knee-jerkingly aggressively defensive
if any Brit dares to criticise the hallowed US of A...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:38 AM

Sorry you got knee-jerkingly aggressively defensively kneed in the balls.

Sounds like different countries teach history differently dontcha think

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:51 AM

We don't get brainwashed from infanthood having to salute the flag at school...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM

I think you will find that Rupert Murdock is Australian, not British.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:58 AM

That's Murdoch!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:26 AM

Back to the topic at hand:

The New York Times published a huge article last night Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General about Trump in cahoots with an Justice Department lawyer to try to overturn the Georgia election. Apparently they thought if they could push Georgia to cave on the results that the other swing states would follow.

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department’s top leaders listened in stunned silence this month: One of their peers, they were told, had devised a plan with President Donald J. Trump to oust Jeffrey A. Rosen as acting attorney general and wield the department’s power to force Georgia state lawmakers to overturn its presidential election results.

The unassuming lawyer who worked on the plan, Jeffrey Clark, had been devising ways to cast doubt on the election results and to bolster Mr. Trump’s continuing legal battles and the pressure on Georgia politicians. Because Mr. Rosen had refused the president’s entreaties to carry out those plans, Mr. Trump was about to decide whether to fire Mr. Rosen and replace him with Mr. Clark.

This guy is toast, and so, now, is Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:29 AM

Good Gawd EVERYONE knows he was Australian.
Hey robo by any chance have you ever seen a robokiller commercial?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:42 AM

Raggytash time to play catchup. archives

If Donald had gone through with his own Saturday night massacre a mass resignation would be the news and not him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:44 AM

Then your use of the term "Brits" on either side of your mention of his name denotes a very poor use of the English language.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 02:51 PM

Rupert Murdoch, our most successful export! We lost him - i.e. we WON! - and the Brits won him - i.e. they LOST!

Unfortunately Murdoch's influence extends outside of the UK but the majority of our politicians don't give him much credence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 05:14 PM

Guys - for business purposes he is an American now

Now what does Brits rhyme with?

Who is happiest about Donald's departure?
The White House bathroom attendant.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 05:24 PM

wit

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 05:35 PM

.. but seeing as you used the plural "Brits" = wits

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:30 PM

Great bit on the News Quiz on Radio 4 this weekend:

Yank panellist: "Aubergine: isn't that your name for eggplant?"

Brit panellist: "No. Aubergine is our name for aubergines."   

Brilliant!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 01:37 AM

I spent some of my formative years in the birthplace of our nation:

Massachusetts.

Class trips and my own perambulations have taken me to the origin of our War of Independence, Lexington Square, and Concord Bridge.

They are indeed hallowed. Concord Bridge especially has been kept up most wonderfully and is well worth a visit. Lexington square is a bit grown built-up, but there is a monument and you can get good Chinese food round the corner.

But, when I was very young, it so happened that there was a British kid in our class and we very nicely asked him how British history treated the American Revolution, and he answered us that it really didn't, because there was a lot of other stuff happening.

It seemed quite reasonable and none of us were at all put out about it.

It's sort of like when Christians with no other background ask Jews what about Jesus in their history and the answer is Jesus ain't in our history. We were doing other stuff at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 05:24 AM

But, when I was very young, it so happened that there was a British kid in our class and we very nicely asked him how British history treated the American Revolution, and he answered us that it really didn't, because there was a lot of other stuff happening.



When I was growing up, here in England, I knew about the Boston Tea Party, Paul Revere's midnight ride and George Washington. Even now, other than King George III, I can't recall any names on the British side.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: fat B****rd
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 03:07 PM

As a "mature" student in 2007-8 I took Higher History. In a unanimous decision we "did" the American Civil Rights Movement because our tutor said it was "sexier" than UK Economics.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 06:56 PM

The American War of Independence is so different when you learn it as a kid. I don't know if it is taught the same way (or at all) for a bunch of reasons:

1) War of Independence versus Revolution. Now I think there were two separate occasions. Fighting the British was to achieve independence. The people who were branded 'Tories' would've branded themselves 'Loyalists'. I understand the population broke down into rough thirds: A third for independence, a third for loyalists, and a third that didn't really care. Some of the fighting was harsh.

2) Impact on young British Canada: Many of the American Loyalists lost their land and removed themselves to Canada, where they created their own mini-revolution in that at the time Canada was mainly French citizens administered by an English governing / military force. A significant new population of English speaking new citizens wanted their rights recognized.

3) Impact on France. The French government spent a lot of money on support for the American cause. It was their fleet that bottled up the English in Yorktown to seal the colonial victory. And it lead to the French Revolution when the French Royalists were out of dough to support their economically challenged population.

4) The issue of slavery has been soft pedalled for generations. As part of the Yorktown surrender the Americans required the British to return their property, being slaves to whom the English had promised their freedom.

5) Even after Yorktown there was no guarantee of American success. One of the main secrets to the success of the new nation was the protracted negotiations that spelled out just what that colonial victory meant. Read a great book called "The Perils of Peace" which spelled it out.

6) The actual Revolution: Came with the Constitutional Convention and its draft product which we still argue about to this day. The notion of a governmental structure based literally on the interpretation of a piece of paper. As mentioned by Franklin: "A Republic, if you can keep it."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 07:06 AM

The only time I seem to remember we touched upon the American events were in the context of the causes of the French Revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 10:18 AM

I only lived in Boston for 4 years. It really is historic and in certain ways more trusting yet racist than NYC.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 11:22 AM

Just a thought:

For a while, at least before the inauguration in which
Joseph Biden became the US President,
it had sense that Donald Trump would have two threads in BS
with his name on them.
Now that he no longer lives or works in the District of Columbia,
could we please have just one Donald Trump thread
instead of two Trump threads?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 12:07 PM

Keb - On my PC desktop, I've simplified things even further to archive links I keep
for further reference on folks in politics..

Two folders.. "GOOD GUYS" and "OBNOXIOUS PRICKS"...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 01:01 PM

We've already discussed and sorted this one. This thread continues to reveal the facts behind his misbehavior while he was in office, the other one will, if it proceeds as planned, will follow the court cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 01:02 PM

Surely there are some who fall in between, or move between the two extremes?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 01:10 PM

McGrath - yeah.. dodgy grey hat 'anti-heroes' are accounted for..

For them, I place duplicate links in each folder...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 01:11 PM

.. they tend to be my kind of people...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 12:03 AM

Keb:

I think this thread is for non legal matters that involve Trump's effects on the country and allows for more freedom of subject matter, such as the wandering into how democratic countries are that we veered into above.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 12:22 AM

My belief is this thread is about a big general UH OH regarding trends in corruption.

TODAYS TREND is that after 8 years of California drought, the richest and fatest have made water a commodity like gold or oil and will allow investors to invest in WATER FUTURES. Speculation by Hedge Funds will fuel its price. Wall St will help insure that money can be made from human misery or any other extraneous life that depends on water.
Wanna git in on the ground floor? Save your spit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 02:47 PM

Trump didn't cause troubles so much as exploit them. Here are some long-term trends that I don't see going away:

slow, constant loss of real income among lower-status families
fatherlessness
lack of scientific knowledge
lack of experience in the real world versus digital products
increasing lack of knowledge of how to raise children.
substance abuse, which increases anger, costs precious money, and
    impedes intelligent thought

All these things lead to a large body of people who are looking for a savior - a daddy- a superman - to change their lives.

When Trump finally wanted the rioters to go home, he said "We love you," two times. Why? Because he was their daddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 05:48 PM

There was a line from an old detective TV show where the private eye has discovered something in the past of the femme fatale and she says:
"Just what rock did you crawl out from?"
And he answers
"I didn't crawl out, ma'am, you found that rock and turned it over all by yourself!"

That's one description of what happened with Trmp. He was out there all the time, it took the public watching him on television, and it took the public voting for him, which they did, enough to elect him once and enough to come way too close to electing him again. Trmp can't help being Trmp, but the problem is that America made Trmp possible and electable.

But life has changed, for sure, Some of it's Trmp, some of it's Covid, and some of it is the interplay. And most of it is fallout of technology.