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BS: Trump Actions and Effects

robomatic 24 Jul 20 - 01:32 AM
Mr Red 24 Jul 20 - 12:28 PM
robomatic 24 Jul 20 - 12:55 PM
SPB-Cooperator 25 Jul 20 - 03:31 AM
Ebbie 26 Jul 20 - 12:41 AM
Jos 26 Jul 20 - 01:26 AM
keberoxu 26 Sep 20 - 09:38 PM
Joe Offer 26 Sep 20 - 10:35 PM
keberoxu 27 Sep 20 - 12:11 PM
Stilly River Sage 27 Sep 20 - 12:25 PM
Ebbie 30 Sep 20 - 05:22 AM
Stilly River Sage 30 Sep 20 - 10:58 AM
keberoxu 30 Sep 20 - 06:06 PM
Elmore 02 Oct 20 - 01:10 AM
Backwoodsman 02 Oct 20 - 03:42 AM
Raggytash 02 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM
DMcG 02 Oct 20 - 05:12 AM
Senoufou 02 Oct 20 - 06:57 AM
DMcG 02 Oct 20 - 07:00 AM
gillymor 02 Oct 20 - 07:08 AM
gillymor 02 Oct 20 - 07:34 AM
gillymor 02 Oct 20 - 08:01 AM
Mr Red 02 Oct 20 - 08:17 AM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Oct 20 - 08:27 AM
Jeri 02 Oct 20 - 08:50 AM
gillymor 02 Oct 20 - 09:02 AM
Jeri 02 Oct 20 - 09:45 AM
punkfolkrocker 02 Oct 20 - 10:09 AM
Jeri 02 Oct 20 - 10:11 AM
gillymor 02 Oct 20 - 10:11 AM
gillymor 02 Oct 20 - 10:33 AM
robomatic 02 Oct 20 - 10:47 AM
Stilly River Sage 02 Oct 20 - 11:57 AM
Charley Noble 02 Oct 20 - 01:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Oct 20 - 04:54 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Oct 20 - 05:01 AM
gillymor 03 Oct 20 - 09:41 AM
Charley Noble 03 Oct 20 - 10:34 AM
Mrrzy 03 Oct 20 - 01:36 PM
Stilly River Sage 03 Oct 20 - 03:07 PM
The Sandman 03 Oct 20 - 03:30 PM
Jos 03 Oct 20 - 04:44 PM
Backwoodsman 03 Oct 20 - 05:50 PM
Stilly River Sage 03 Oct 20 - 05:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Oct 20 - 07:11 PM
gillymor 04 Oct 20 - 06:34 AM
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Stilly River Sage 04 Oct 20 - 10:22 AM
gillymor 04 Oct 20 - 10:23 AM
Stilly River Sage 04 Oct 20 - 10:37 AM
Mrrzy 04 Oct 20 - 01:26 PM
Stilly River Sage 04 Oct 20 - 05:52 PM
punkfolkrocker 04 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM
gillymor 04 Oct 20 - 07:24 PM
gillymor 06 Oct 20 - 03:55 AM
Backwoodsman 06 Oct 20 - 04:19 AM
Bonzo3legs 07 Oct 20 - 10:18 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Oct 20 - 10:55 AM
Ebbie 08 Oct 20 - 01:31 AM
Stilly River Sage 08 Oct 20 - 09:48 AM
Mr Red 09 Oct 20 - 03:06 AM
Ebbie 09 Oct 20 - 05:11 AM
DMcG 09 Oct 20 - 01:29 PM
Donuel 09 Oct 20 - 05:16 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Oct 20 - 05:58 PM
meself 09 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM
Ebbie 09 Oct 20 - 11:30 PM
Donuel 10 Oct 20 - 07:22 AM
Stilly River Sage 10 Oct 20 - 11:35 AM
gillymor 10 Oct 20 - 01:28 PM
Hrothgar 13 Oct 20 - 08:39 AM
gillymor 13 Oct 20 - 08:51 AM
gillymor 13 Oct 20 - 09:09 AM
Mrrzy 13 Oct 20 - 09:13 AM
Donuel 13 Oct 20 - 10:58 AM
Mr Red 14 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM
Stilly River Sage 14 Oct 20 - 10:48 AM
meself 14 Oct 20 - 12:57 PM
robomatic 15 Oct 20 - 02:42 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Oct 20 - 03:20 AM
Stilly River Sage 15 Oct 20 - 07:07 PM
SPB-Cooperator 16 Oct 20 - 02:58 AM
Stilly River Sage 16 Oct 20 - 11:55 AM
meself 16 Oct 20 - 06:26 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 Oct 20 - 12:46 AM
meself 17 Oct 20 - 01:19 AM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Oct 20 - 05:45 AM
gillymor 17 Oct 20 - 08:14 AM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Oct 20 - 08:04 AM
Mrrzy 20 Oct 20 - 08:17 PM
Stilly River Sage 20 Oct 20 - 10:52 PM
Ebbie 21 Oct 20 - 04:14 AM
Jeri 21 Oct 20 - 09:32 AM
Donuel 21 Oct 20 - 09:27 PM
Donuel 21 Oct 20 - 10:02 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Oct 20 - 11:20 PM
Ebbie 22 Oct 20 - 02:36 AM
Hrothgar 22 Oct 20 - 06:25 AM
Jos 22 Oct 20 - 07:10 AM
SPB-Cooperator 22 Oct 20 - 07:21 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Oct 20 - 07:27 AM
Mrrzy 22 Oct 20 - 09:46 AM
meself 22 Oct 20 - 10:44 AM
Donuel 22 Oct 20 - 04:43 PM
Stilly River Sage 22 Oct 20 - 06:18 PM
meself 22 Oct 20 - 07:37 PM
Mrrzy 22 Oct 20 - 10:11 PM
Donuel 23 Oct 20 - 07:36 AM
Donuel 25 Oct 20 - 09:52 AM
Donuel 25 Oct 20 - 02:05 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Oct 20 - 04:16 PM
keberoxu 25 Oct 20 - 05:19 PM
Donuel 26 Oct 20 - 05:54 PM
Stilly River Sage 27 Oct 20 - 02:33 PM
robomatic 30 Oct 20 - 07:52 AM
Donuel 30 Oct 20 - 01:35 PM
robomatic 30 Oct 20 - 04:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Oct 20 - 04:59 PM
Donuel 30 Oct 20 - 08:08 PM
Donuel 31 Oct 20 - 08:01 AM
Donuel 02 Nov 20 - 09:56 AM
Mrrzy 02 Nov 20 - 04:59 PM
robomatic 04 Nov 20 - 09:26 AM
Donuel 04 Nov 20 - 06:16 PM
robomatic 04 Nov 20 - 07:03 PM
Donuel 05 Nov 20 - 08:35 AM
Donuel 05 Nov 20 - 09:04 AM
Mrrzy 05 Nov 20 - 10:13 AM
Donuel 05 Nov 20 - 10:31 AM
Stilly River Sage 05 Nov 20 - 12:14 PM
robomatic 05 Nov 20 - 09:54 PM
Donuel 05 Nov 20 - 09:59 PM
Donuel 06 Nov 20 - 09:34 AM
Donuel 07 Nov 20 - 07:49 AM
keberoxu 07 Nov 20 - 09:07 PM
Mrrzy 07 Nov 20 - 09:45 PM
The Sandman 08 Nov 20 - 03:13 AM
gillymor 08 Nov 20 - 05:35 AM
Donuel 08 Nov 20 - 06:41 AM
Bill D 08 Nov 20 - 11:55 AM
Donuel 12 Nov 20 - 08:01 AM
Backwoodsman 12 Nov 20 - 08:45 AM
robomatic 13 Nov 20 - 04:37 PM
Mr Red 14 Nov 20 - 06:31 AM
Donuel 14 Nov 20 - 08:16 AM
Donuel 14 Nov 20 - 08:31 AM
Donuel 14 Nov 20 - 10:08 AM
robomatic 14 Nov 20 - 03:48 PM
Jos 14 Nov 20 - 04:18 PM
meself 14 Nov 20 - 06:42 PM
Mr Red 16 Nov 20 - 07:58 AM
Donuel 17 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM
Stilly River Sage 18 Nov 20 - 02:51 PM
SPB-Cooperator 19 Nov 20 - 09:01 AM
Donuel 19 Nov 20 - 09:07 AM
Mrrzy 19 Nov 20 - 09:50 AM
Donuel 19 Nov 20 - 12:14 PM
Elmore 19 Nov 20 - 10:01 PM
Donuel 20 Nov 20 - 08:31 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Nov 20 - 08:54 AM
Donuel 20 Nov 20 - 12:11 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Nov 20 - 12:35 PM
Donuel 20 Nov 20 - 05:46 PM
SPB-Cooperator 21 Nov 20 - 06:45 AM
Stilly River Sage 21 Nov 20 - 03:35 PM
Donuel 21 Nov 20 - 07:38 PM
Neil D 22 Nov 20 - 09:43 PM
Neil D 22 Nov 20 - 09:47 PM
robomatic 22 Nov 20 - 10:33 PM
SPB-Cooperator 23 Nov 20 - 05:53 AM
gillymor 23 Nov 20 - 06:00 AM
Donuel 23 Nov 20 - 09:51 AM
robomatic 24 Nov 20 - 08:20 AM
Donuel 24 Nov 20 - 06:56 PM
Donuel 25 Nov 20 - 09:02 PM
Bonzo3legs 10 Dec 20 - 02:09 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Dec 20 - 02:38 PM
Jeri 10 Dec 20 - 02:55 PM
Helen 10 Dec 20 - 04:02 PM
Donuel 10 Dec 20 - 05:27 PM
Helen 10 Dec 20 - 06:30 PM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Dec 20 - 02:04 AM
Donuel 11 Dec 20 - 08:20 AM
Donuel 11 Dec 20 - 05:45 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Dec 20 - 06:03 PM
Donuel 11 Dec 20 - 06:59 PM
Stilly River Sage 12 Dec 20 - 12:30 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Dec 20 - 12:36 PM
Helen 12 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM
Donuel 14 Dec 20 - 06:27 PM
robomatic 14 Dec 20 - 07:13 PM
Helen 17 Dec 20 - 03:18 AM
robomatic 17 Dec 20 - 12:38 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM
Donuel 18 Dec 20 - 07:00 AM
Donuel 18 Dec 20 - 09:54 AM
leeneia 18 Dec 20 - 06:06 PM
Donuel 21 Dec 20 - 08:47 AM
Bill D 21 Dec 20 - 09:48 AM
Donuel 21 Dec 20 - 02:50 PM
Donuel 23 Dec 20 - 12:48 PM
Donuel 23 Dec 20 - 01:01 PM
Stilly River Sage 23 Dec 20 - 02:15 PM
Donuel 23 Dec 20 - 08:41 PM
Donuel 23 Dec 20 - 10:00 PM
Donuel 24 Dec 20 - 05:13 AM
Mrrzy 24 Dec 20 - 10:56 AM
keberoxu 24 Dec 20 - 04:25 PM
Donuel 24 Dec 20 - 06:46 PM
Ebbie 27 Dec 20 - 03:46 PM
Donuel 27 Dec 20 - 05:32 PM
Donuel 28 Dec 20 - 06:18 AM
Mrrzy 28 Dec 20 - 11:36 PM
Donuel 30 Dec 20 - 03:37 PM
Stilly River Sage 31 Dec 20 - 01:06 PM
Helen 31 Dec 20 - 01:31 PM
Ebbie 01 Jan 21 - 04:23 AM
Helen 01 Jan 21 - 05:16 AM
Stilly River Sage 01 Jan 21 - 03:53 PM
robomatic 04 Jan 21 - 08:51 PM
Stilly River Sage 05 Jan 21 - 02:05 AM
Ebbie 05 Jan 21 - 04:29 AM
Donuel 05 Jan 21 - 06:36 PM
gillymor 06 Jan 21 - 05:31 AM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM
Stilly River Sage 06 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 01:01 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 02:31 PM
Jos 06 Jan 21 - 02:50 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 03:19 PM
Jeri 06 Jan 21 - 03:28 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM
punkfolkrocker 06 Jan 21 - 03:44 PM
Jeri 06 Jan 21 - 03:52 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 03:56 PM
robomatic 06 Jan 21 - 04:12 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 06 Jan 21 - 04:28 PM
punkfolkrocker 06 Jan 21 - 04:28 PM
Mrrzy 06 Jan 21 - 04:46 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 05:39 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 05:41 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 05:51 PM
Stilly River Sage 06 Jan 21 - 06:13 PM
Jeri 06 Jan 21 - 06:29 PM
Bill D 06 Jan 21 - 06:38 PM
robomatic 06 Jan 21 - 06:46 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 07:05 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 07:28 PM
robomatic 06 Jan 21 - 08:22 PM
Charley Noble 06 Jan 21 - 08:40 PM
robomatic 06 Jan 21 - 08:49 PM
Sandra in Sydney 06 Jan 21 - 10:12 PM
robomatic 06 Jan 21 - 10:27 PM
Donuel 06 Jan 21 - 11:06 PM
Mrrzy 06 Jan 21 - 11:20 PM
Jeri 06 Jan 21 - 11:55 PM
Stilly River Sage 07 Jan 21 - 01:25 AM
The Sandman 07 Jan 21 - 01:39 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 21 - 05:03 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 21 - 05:21 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 21 - 05:27 AM
Donuel 07 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 21 - 06:57 AM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 07 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Jan 21 - 08:27 AM
Donuel 07 Jan 21 - 09:32 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 21 - 09:44 AM
The Sandman 07 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM
Mrrzy 07 Jan 21 - 10:40 AM
gillymor 07 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM
Backwoodsman 07 Jan 21 - 11:48 AM
Donuel 07 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM
Donuel 07 Jan 21 - 12:41 PM
punkfolkrocker 07 Jan 21 - 01:13 PM
Stilly River Sage 07 Jan 21 - 01:14 PM
Donuel 07 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 21 - 02:59 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Jan 21 - 03:16 PM
Donuel 07 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM
Stilly River Sage 07 Jan 21 - 03:54 PM
Donuel 07 Jan 21 - 04:40 PM
punkfolkrocker 07 Jan 21 - 05:51 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 21 - 06:14 PM
robomatic 07 Jan 21 - 07:22 PM
Steve Shaw 07 Jan 21 - 07:31 PM
robomatic 07 Jan 21 - 08:16 PM
Stilly River Sage 07 Jan 21 - 10:54 PM
Mrrzy 07 Jan 21 - 10:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 07 Jan 21 - 11:18 PM
robomatic 07 Jan 21 - 11:23 PM
Ebbie 08 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM
Ebbie 08 Jan 21 - 02:56 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Jan 21 - 03:28 AM
Ebbie 08 Jan 21 - 04:14 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Jan 21 - 06:56 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 06:57 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 07:02 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM
gillymor 08 Jan 21 - 07:11 AM
Donuel 08 Jan 21 - 07:12 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 07:13 AM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 07:15 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Jan 21 - 07:25 AM
gillymor 08 Jan 21 - 07:32 AM
gillymor 08 Jan 21 - 08:26 AM
gillymor 08 Jan 21 - 09:00 AM
Sandra in Sydney 08 Jan 21 - 10:11 AM
gillymor 08 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM
Backwoodsman 08 Jan 21 - 11:07 AM
Donuel 08 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM
gillymor 08 Jan 21 - 12:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Jan 21 - 12:56 PM
robomatic 08 Jan 21 - 01:05 PM
Donuel 08 Jan 21 - 01:25 PM
The Sandman 08 Jan 21 - 01:30 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 01:51 PM
Donuel 08 Jan 21 - 02:24 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Jan 21 - 02:25 PM
robomatic 08 Jan 21 - 02:26 PM
Donuel 08 Jan 21 - 02:29 PM
Donuel 08 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM
gillymor 08 Jan 21 - 03:27 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Jan 21 - 03:37 PM
leeneia 08 Jan 21 - 04:26 PM
robomatic 08 Jan 21 - 04:47 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 05:27 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Jan 21 - 05:40 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 05:48 PM
Helen 08 Jan 21 - 06:00 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 06:28 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 06:50 PM
Donuel 08 Jan 21 - 07:14 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 07:27 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Jan 21 - 07:44 PM
Raggytash 08 Jan 21 - 08:22 PM
Donuel 08 Jan 21 - 08:24 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Jan 21 - 08:31 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Jan 21 - 09:27 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Jan 21 - 11:19 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Jan 21 - 11:44 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Jan 21 - 11:48 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Jan 21 - 11:54 PM
The Sandman 09 Jan 21 - 02:25 AM
robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 02:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 02:45 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 02:46 AM
robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM
Joe Offer 09 Jan 21 - 03:35 AM
Sandra in Sydney 09 Jan 21 - 03:50 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 04:46 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 04:51 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 05:47 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 05:51 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 06:11 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 06:22 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 06:43 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 07:18 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 07:26 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 07:31 AM
DMcG 09 Jan 21 - 07:40 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 07:53 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 08:03 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 08:20 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 08:28 AM
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Thompson 09 Jan 21 - 08:43 AM
Mr Red 09 Jan 21 - 09:05 AM
peteglasgow 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 09:46 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 09:58 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 10:41 AM
robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 10:46 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM
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robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 12:45 PM
Helen 09 Jan 21 - 01:54 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 02:18 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 03:00 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 03:03 PM
robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 03:29 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Jan 21 - 04:55 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 05:42 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 07:17 PM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Jan 21 - 07:34 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 07:38 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 07:58 PM
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punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 09:15 PM
Doug Chadwick 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 PM
robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 09:54 PM
leeneia 10 Jan 21 - 02:00 AM
The Sandman 10 Jan 21 - 03:08 AM
DMcG 10 Jan 21 - 03:47 AM
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Steve Shaw 10 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM
Donuel 10 Jan 21 - 07:52 AM
Donuel 10 Jan 21 - 08:04 AM
Raggytash 10 Jan 21 - 08:47 AM
The Sandman 10 Jan 21 - 08:58 AM
Donuel 10 Jan 21 - 09:40 AM
Donuel 10 Jan 21 - 09:49 AM
Donuel 10 Jan 21 - 09:54 AM
Jeri 10 Jan 21 - 10:37 AM
Stilly River Sage 10 Jan 21 - 10:47 AM
Donuel 10 Jan 21 - 11:53 AM
Jeri 10 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM
Donuel 10 Jan 21 - 12:08 PM
Donuel 10 Jan 21 - 01:42 PM
punkfolkrocker 10 Jan 21 - 02:43 PM
Donuel 10 Jan 21 - 05:02 PM
Helen 10 Jan 21 - 05:19 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 21 - 05:57 PM
Helen 10 Jan 21 - 06:20 PM
Stilly River Sage 10 Jan 21 - 06:49 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 21 - 07:46 PM
robomatic 10 Jan 21 - 09:07 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Jan 21 - 09:16 PM
robomatic 10 Jan 21 - 11:39 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Jan 21 - 12:47 AM
gillymor 11 Jan 21 - 06:39 AM
Jack Campin 11 Jan 21 - 08:30 AM
gillymor 11 Jan 21 - 09:03 AM
HuwG 11 Jan 21 - 09:04 AM
gillymor 11 Jan 21 - 09:14 AM
Donuel 11 Jan 21 - 09:15 AM
gillymor 11 Jan 21 - 09:21 AM
Donuel 11 Jan 21 - 09:37 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 21 - 10:05 AM
Donuel 11 Jan 21 - 02:11 PM
gillymor 11 Jan 21 - 06:52 PM
robomatic 11 Jan 21 - 08:08 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 21 - 08:29 PM
Helen 11 Jan 21 - 10:04 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Jan 21 - 10:39 PM
Jos 12 Jan 21 - 04:10 AM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM
gillymor 12 Jan 21 - 06:59 AM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 07:00 AM
gillymor 12 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 07:14 AM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 08:02 AM
DMcG 12 Jan 21 - 09:15 AM
gillymor 12 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 10:49 AM
Raggytash 12 Jan 21 - 11:57 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM
robomatic 12 Jan 21 - 01:38 PM
DMcG 12 Jan 21 - 01:53 PM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 04:23 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Jan 21 - 04:30 PM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 04:37 PM
robomatic 12 Jan 21 - 06:01 PM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 07:16 PM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 07:31 PM
Stilly River Sage 12 Jan 21 - 07:37 PM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 07:46 PM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 07:56 PM
robomatic 12 Jan 21 - 08:39 PM
Jeri 12 Jan 21 - 08:48 PM
Donuel 12 Jan 21 - 09:02 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jan 21 - 09:19 PM
Jeri 12 Jan 21 - 09:45 PM
Jeri 12 Jan 21 - 09:50 PM
Ebbie 13 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Jan 21 - 05:35 AM
DMcG 13 Jan 21 - 06:46 AM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 07:29 AM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 07:48 AM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 08:22 AM
gillymor 13 Jan 21 - 08:26 AM
gillymor 13 Jan 21 - 08:35 AM
gillymor 13 Jan 21 - 08:49 AM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 09:13 AM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 10:16 AM
Jack Campin 13 Jan 21 - 11:00 AM
Raggytash 13 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 02:12 PM
Stilly River Sage 13 Jan 21 - 03:32 PM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 04:22 PM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 08:04 PM
Stilly River Sage 13 Jan 21 - 09:34 PM
Jeri 13 Jan 21 - 09:38 PM
Jeri 13 Jan 21 - 09:53 PM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 09:57 PM
Donuel 13 Jan 21 - 10:04 PM
robomatic 13 Jan 21 - 10:40 PM
DMcG 14 Jan 21 - 03:39 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 21 - 04:38 AM
DMcG 14 Jan 21 - 04:45 AM
Doug Chadwick 14 Jan 21 - 05:02 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 21 - 05:12 AM
Donuel 14 Jan 21 - 07:43 AM
DMcG 14 Jan 21 - 07:52 AM
Donuel 14 Jan 21 - 08:02 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jan 21 - 08:14 AM
Donuel 14 Jan 21 - 08:18 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jan 21 - 08:45 AM
Donuel 14 Jan 21 - 09:10 AM
Jeri 14 Jan 21 - 09:53 AM
Donuel 14 Jan 21 - 10:44 AM
Jos 14 Jan 21 - 11:33 AM
Donuel 14 Jan 21 - 12:28 PM
gillymor 14 Jan 21 - 02:45 PM
gillymor 14 Jan 21 - 02:46 PM
Ebbie 14 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jan 21 - 05:24 PM
Ebbie 14 Jan 21 - 05:56 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jan 21 - 06:10 PM
Donuel 14 Jan 21 - 06:41 PM
Donuel 14 Jan 21 - 06:50 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jan 21 - 07:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jan 21 - 07:42 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Jan 21 - 07:59 PM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jan 21 - 08:02 PM
Ebbie 15 Jan 21 - 12:50 AM
Helen 15 Jan 21 - 03:03 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 21 - 04:28 AM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 06:29 AM
Donuel 15 Jan 21 - 06:49 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 21 - 06:59 AM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 07:10 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 07:24 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 21 - 08:17 AM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM
Donuel 15 Jan 21 - 08:35 AM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 08:48 AM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Jan 21 - 09:02 AM
DMcG 15 Jan 21 - 09:10 AM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 09:18 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jan 21 - 10:04 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM
Doug Chadwick 15 Jan 21 - 10:43 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 21 - 11:01 AM
Donuel 15 Jan 21 - 11:03 AM
Donuel 15 Jan 21 - 11:20 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 21 - 11:21 AM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 21 - 11:36 AM
Charmion 15 Jan 21 - 11:39 AM
Donuel 15 Jan 21 - 11:43 AM
Raggytash 15 Jan 21 - 11:50 AM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Jan 21 - 12:36 PM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 12:40 PM
Donuel 15 Jan 21 - 12:42 PM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 12:49 PM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 21 - 02:16 PM
Stilly River Sage 15 Jan 21 - 02:29 PM
Helen 15 Jan 21 - 02:37 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 21 - 03:21 PM
Raggytash 15 Jan 21 - 03:25 PM
Helen 15 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM
Donuel 15 Jan 21 - 03:50 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Jan 21 - 03:55 PM
gillymor 15 Jan 21 - 04:21 PM
Bill D 15 Jan 21 - 04:33 PM
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robomatic 15 Jan 21 - 10:32 PM

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Subject: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jul 20 - 01:32 AM

Part One

Back in 2003 I was working out of my home state. I was sent to California to work in a refinery near Oakland. And California hit the big time news with a successful effort to recall Governor Gray Davis from his second term. My closest of kin was a native Californian who found the recal ridiculous. For one thing the newly reelected Democratic governor was perfectly honest and capable. The Republican legislator who sponsored the recall was notoriously not so. And then when the recall was successful, he backed out of the whole thing and did not run to replace Davis himself.

What followed was a political maelstrom with over a hundred contenders and a fracas that was simultaneously horror show and low comedy that would have kept Spitting Image busy with tons of papier mache had they still been around. And long story short, California got The Governator. Arnold Schwarzeneggar was elected, served a full term, and was reelected.

The next year, The Apprentice ‘reality show’ premiered with Donald Trump. I watched some of the early episodes. Trump did not take to the screen very much in the episodes I saw. The contending novices and the tasks set them took up the bulk of the show and provided the competitive tension. Trump would furnish the gravitas as the ‘decider’ at a final boardroom showdown and got to utter the immortal phrase: “you’re fired!”. Right from the start I could not see why anyone would humiliate themselves to be subjected to that man’s judgment. I would find it defiling, but then, in America the trappings of wealth, power and competence is accepted as a substitute for the real thing in so many cases. Fronting a reality show is definitely one of those cases.

That show with Donald Trump went on until 2015. Then Trump left for possibly higher things, and the show morphed into Celebrity Apprentice with guess who as the new decider:

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jul 20 - 12:28 PM

Did he never say "you will be back"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jul 20 - 12:55 PM

LOL -actually it was a chuckle-


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 03:31 AM

I wish you hadn't mentioned Spitting Image. It got me remembering the two Davids (David Owen with David Steele in his pocket) and asking myself if is they would portray Trump and Johnson as conjoined twins - then the imagery got worse when I remember what Johnson was slang for - Trump with a talking Johnson in his trousers. Surprised that Steve Bell hasn't picked up on this - I suppose the imagery would be too much even for the Guardian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 12:41 AM

Good story, robomatic.

You probably are aware that we're trying to recall our governor? I don't know the man personally but what convinced me is what he did to the ferries that fed our offshore islands. Deplorable. A tRump wannabe, if I ever saw one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: Jos
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 01:26 AM

"what Johnson was slang for"
Well, that's one I hadn't come across before. Maybe it's a US thing. I suppose Americans know what a "trump" is (aside from the card-playing meaning)?


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Subject: BS: Federal Funding and jurisdictions
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 09:38 PM

This is really ominous to me --
if the US Government in its branches
(executive and judicial, here)
can go this far,
I hate to think what is next.

in response to Trump memorandum


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Subject: RE: BS: Federal Funding and jurisdictions
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 10:35 PM

From Keberoxu's link:
    The U.S. Department of Justice today identified the following three jurisdictions that have permitted violence and destruction of property to persist and have refused to undertake reasonable measures to counteract criminal activities: New York City; Portland, Oregon; and Seattle, Washington. The Department of Justice is continuing to work to identify jurisdictions that meet the criteria set out in the President’s Memorandum and will periodically update the list of selected jurisdictions as required therein.

    The list was published on DOJ’s website today in response to President Trump’s memorandum of September 2, 2020, entitled “Memorandum on Reviewing Funding to State and Local Government Recipients That Are Permitting Anarchy, Violence, and Destruction in American Cities.”


Well, the election is in November. This decree won't make Trump popular in these cities.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Federal Funding and jurisdictions
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 12:11 PM

To me it smacks of the Soviet Union and the KGB.
Well, this country already has gulags ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 12:25 PM

I moved this "Federal Funding and jurisdictions" topic over here. We're ending up with a lot of Trump threads, and I have to agree with the UK contingent - if we're going to limit them to the number of UK politic threads they start we need to keep the Trump threads under control as well. There are plenty to go around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 05:22 AM

I've been awfully afraid of the outcome of the upcoming presidential election. But after tonight's debate between the current pResident and Joe Biden I can only say grimly:if anyone still supports the Golden Ass they deserve him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 10:58 AM

There was a term used in an interview recently that I can't get my hands on how via a search. The interviewee said that people have trouble predicting a different future when looking at current events. That they tend to see more of the same in the future instead of a decisive change.

This is certainly the case now - several friends who fully intend to vote for Biden have expressed sorrow that they're afraid Trump will win anyway. Simply because they're so miserable now they can't see enough people pulling it together to make a change.

I'm optimistic enough to read the current political climate as a whole bunch of people who are working hard to get out the vote, because what they most fear is another Trump term. And if they keep working, they will see positive results.

If nothing else, last night's series of "non-presidential" interruptions by Trump will spur Democrats on to go ahead and vote (if they haven't already. I mailed my ballot yesterday, figuring five weeks will be enough to reach the election administrator).


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 06:06 PM

And at long last
there has been a parting of the ways
between Donald Trump and the Drudge Report
(according to the New York Times).


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Subject: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Elmore
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 01:10 AM

The latest news on MSNBC declares that Donald J. Trump and his wife have tested positive for what he claimed was the disappearing virus. Nancy Pelosi is praying for them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 03:42 AM

Or at least it’s a way of avoiding any further televised debates? He made a complete bell-end of himself on the one the other night, perhaps he and his controllers have decided enough is enough and pulled this stunt to save face?


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM

I can't help but be cynical and think it's a publicity stunt, he will come back (early) and say it was no more than a cold and we shouldn't be taking precaution, wearing masks etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 05:12 AM

I can certainly see that happening, Raggytash. Or if he is more affected but recovers in a week or two, claim that shows how super-fit and resilient he is. Or, if it a bit worse, seek the sympathy vote. Really, there are a lot of ways to play it if he is not actually hospitalized.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 06:57 AM

There are so many ways in which this announcement could get a bit more support for Trump that I very much doubt its veracity.
But if it's true, to wish that it would carry him off isn't morally defensible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 07:00 AM

I was reading that there is much uncertainty about what would happen to all the mail-in votes that have already been cast which have his name on them if Trump died or withdrew. In the accounts I have read, it is not clear if any votes cast for him would automatically transfer to another nominee. Even the votes cast for Biden could be in some doubt, since saying you prefer Biden to Trump does not inherently say you prefer Biden to A. N. Other.

On the UK side of the ocean this passes almost in a single comment, but presumably it is exercising people on the US side more. I'd be interested in hearing comments on it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 07:08 AM

At this moment I can't of anything that would be more beneficial to mankind than for this would-be dictator to exit this mortal realm, perhaps we could get those children on the southern border reunited with their families. Unfortunately the statistics indicate he's liable to weather this even though he's elderly, fat, eats garbage and doesn't exercise beyond playing golf out of a cart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 07:34 AM

Also with his passing and the election of a new administration we're sure to get a serious response to the virus which will save untold numbers of lives.
If he does pull through expect a whole new raft of lies and misinformation from the White House about the virus that will lead to even more death and illness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:01 AM

This has also caused the cancellation of this weekend's planned super-spreader events in Wisconsin, without masks and social distancing, which will no doubt save lives up there as there will be no additional trump cultists spreading the virus among their fellow citizens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:17 AM

I think that Twitler going viral may just ensure he doesn't win. But will he leave?

Hey - give him some of his bleach, that'll solve the problemo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:27 AM

Incidentally Spitting Image is back to tomorrow, though only on the streaming service Britbox. The trailer on YouTube and the releases of pictures of the new puppets look very promising and pretty savage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:50 AM

There has been talk (on NPR this AM) of what will happen with the election. He's on the ballot. If Pence has to be sworn in, will votes for Trump automatically go to Pence?
I think it might be believed that he and Melania got it from Hope Hicks, but it's speculation, and more is coming out about this as time goes on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 09:02 AM

Who knows if Hicks infected them but the WH knew of her infection in advance of his fund-raising trip to New Jersey.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-10-02-20-intl/h_da0bc1f63ac9a7ab1e5ea0a4135723b7

Maybe trump's illness will inspire a number of his numbnutz followers to take CDC guidelines seriously at long last.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 09:45 AM

At the least it's a wake-up.
People politicized mask wearing.
Can't politicize Covid-19.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:09 AM

Unfortunately, this as close to evil as humanly possible man
can afford the finest emergency health care on this planet;
to help him claim how super human Übermensch fit he is
to shrug off this minor inconvenience harmless virus...

Would it be more beneficial for humanity
if covid kills trump,
or permanently reduces him to a feeble dribbling invalid old man...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:11 AM

He's gone from having a positive test to having "mild Covid symptoms" in only the past few hours, so I think it's too early to know what will happen.

...not that he or his toadies will tell anybody if he DOES get really sick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:11 AM

I don't want him to suffer, I just want him gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:33 AM

Ironically, his surrogates, including his idiot son, Don Jr., have been spreading unfounded rumors about Joe Biden's health.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:47 AM

I saw the thread title and said to meself: "That's interesting!" totally forgetting who the OP....

But I've got another Trump story. A 45 year old Trump story.

I took Russian language in high school. Really loved it because aside from the wonderful flow of the phonemes and the fact that the Russian teacher was the best teacher in school, a massive presence who could entertain and terrify at the same time, we had a huge supply of a magazine called "Soviet Life". These magazines were the result of an agreement between the U.S. and U.S.S.R. which encouraged mutual understanding. They published a magazine for Americans in English with stories of life in the Soviet Union. We published a magazine for Russians in Russian with stories about our side of the world. Their magazine was very print heavy with large low definition black and white photos I even remember fingerprints from the dark room visible on a page sized print. Our magazines were a little thinner with glossy color prints. Their magazine piled up mostly unread in our libraries and as it happens in my Russian language schoolroom. I found out that our magazine was gobbled up within minutes of going on sale because I happened by such an event in the USSR one day.

Anyhow, while confined in classroom with little to do I opened one of the Soviet mags and saw a question and answer section about life in Soviet Russia. Someone had asked the question: "What do Soviets think about political jokes?" The answer in the magazine was pretentious and serious, all about having a proper regard for the seriousness of public office and considerations as to proper sense of levity balanced against the need to appreciate humor. But even young ignorant teenager that I was I already knew the correct answer to the question:

"Political jokes are fine, as long as they don't get elected!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 11:57 AM

I moved some of the "Orange clown" posts here and closed the other thread. Seriously, we already have too many Trump threads going, and just as we're trying to restrict the number of UK political threads, it isn't necessary to start a new thread any time some new Trump event or insult happens.

That said, if someone starts a thread where there is a sober discussion of constitutional questions during this time, with good links to responsible journalism, that would be welcome. The closed one was mostly a gloating thread and the content can join the rest of the Trump chatter in this tread.



That thread has been started.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 01:17 PM

The President is certainly a candidate for "Super-Spreader of the Year."

The worst quip I've seen this morning was with regard to Biden's prospects for victory in November: "There is always hope!"

Cheerily,
Charlie Ipcar (previously known as Charley Noble)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 04:54 AM

One way and another I suspect this could save thousands of lives. It could mean the end of the crazy situation where it appears that millions of Trump's true believers see wearing a mask or social distancing as treachery. It's been estimated that if all Americans started to behave rationally in those matters it would cut the predicted death rate over the next few months by a significant amount.

I was watching a White House correspondent on the BBC commenting on the way that the White House atmosphere had totally changed, and instead of no-one wearing masks (the President didn't like them to) they all were.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 05:01 AM

I wish trump and his wife a speedy recovery - then the mocking can restart!!!!!!!! Is he wearing his jacket in hospital I wonder!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 09:41 AM

The gathering in the Rose Garden last week looks like it was a super-spreader event with little social distancing, a lot of glad handing and about 50 mask wearers among about 180 attendees. WTF is wrong with these people, they're suppose to be leading us out of this pandemic.
Essence.com

Fortunately trump was waylaid by the virus before he could hold his event in Green Bay today where public health officials are reporting that their hospitals are overwhelmed with COVID cases.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 10:34 AM

The Rose Garden event has led to 6 confirmed cases, including Mr. Trump. The Supreme Court nominee and her husband have already recovered from the coronavirus infection so they are not a factor.

The Debate in Cleveland has led to 11 confirmed cases among out of state staff informed in planning and set-up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 01:36 PM

Jos, do tell.

I have heard of the last trump and of coming up trumps and of bridge-whist-spades-type trumps, what am I missing?

And I thought Johnson was British, I coulda sworn it came from that Monty Python skit, with John Thomas and one-eyed trouser snake. Which I shall now go find.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 03:07 PM

They are a factor if you can catch COVID-19 again. It hasn't been proven that there is long-term immunity after recovery.


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Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 03:30 PM

well they are all puppets
The Man in the Mask

Notes: words and music by Malvina Reynolds; copyright 1971 Schroder Music Company, renewed 1999. A portrait of Richard Nixon, and Richard Nixons in general.


Come sit down beside me before the big T.V.
And watch the funny pictures they have there to look at,
Shampoo for your hair and the last polar bear,
And the man on the moon who was walking around
Then left, leaving junk on the once virgin ground.

There's old timey movies with old fashioned dresses,
The kidnap of babies and other such messes,
There's football and baseball and guys selling cars,
And then there's The Man in the Mask.

Chorus:
They say it's his face, but I just can't believe it.
It looks like a mask that I saw in the store.
It talks with deep feeling about ending some war
And stopping inflation, and it's so fantastic,
You'll cry while you're laughing, and roll on the floor.

Every four years he puts a new mask on.
Each one is worse than the one he had before,
But the words are the same and the same earnest manner,
About ending inflation and stopping the war.

The sponsors paid out a million of millions
To get him up there with his magic routine,
But it's really a bargain, 'cause there's such a margin
In war and inflation and the big T.V. screen
That gives us The Man in the Mask.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 04:44 PM

For Mrrzy

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/trump-fart.1529620/


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 05:50 PM

‘Trump’ is in very common usage in the UK as a slang term for the act of breaking wind. In my own family it has always been regarded as a somewhat polite term, suitable for children - whereas ‘fart’ is regarded as vulgar.

Donald Trump has thus always been regarded as a figure of ridicule by many British people because of his extremely unfortunate surname.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 05:58 PM

And his grandfather chose it for them. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 07:11 PM

Anybody who went to that super spreader meeting to launch Amy Barrett's nomination without wearing a mask, including Amy Barrett, is clearly so stupid that it would be totally irresponsible to put them on the SupremeCourt, regardless of any other issues.

The same obviously goes for the President, but that's a matter of a much wider electorate. The Senator's have a much more direct responsibility as individuals. Ordinary voters can always be pretty sure their single vote won't make a crucial difference. The Senators don't have that let out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 06:34 AM

I saw a video yesterday on CNN that showed Barret sitting in the White House with her children in close proximty to Melania just before the Rose Garden event and all were maskless.
As for Dr. Conley it seems that everyone in trump's orbit has only a passing acquaintance with the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 09:20 AM

Risking the lives of her children in that way was a breathtaking level of irresponsibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 10:22 AM

It seems that with three GOP senators out ill with COVID19 they don't have enough votes for the senate confirmation. Dog works in mysterious ways indeed!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 10:23 AM

If Barret has a confirmation hearing, and I sincerely hope that the religious zealot does not, let's hope that disgraceful little tableau comes up along with her maskless presence at the WH super-spreader event.
A new NBC/WSJ poll has Biden up by 14 points, trump is going to have to go a ways to steal this election but don't think he won't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 10:37 AM

Trump is continuing the negative ads against Biden, despite Biden pulling his negative ads while the pResident is in the hospital. Trump wouldn't understand Grace if it bit him in the ass (which, of course, Grace would never do).


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 01:26 PM

Jos, thank you so much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 05:52 PM

Trump just hopped in a SUV and the presidential motorcade drove around Washington, D.C. A man with COVID-19 just sat in a closed vehicle with supposedly non-COVID-19 staff so he could go wave at supporters.

Seriously. He put all of those people in harms way so he could go wave at his fan base.

Unbelievable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM

I'll be really pissed off if covid kills me but fails to eliminate trump...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 07:24 PM

Here's what Dr. James Phillips tweeted about trump's joy ride today:

"Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential “drive-by” just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity."

Daily Kos

By now it should be obvious to even the dullest among us that trump doesn't care about anyone but himself. When I consider the chaos he's going to send this country into as the election nears and his poll numbers continue to flag I gotta say I'm pulling for the virus.


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Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Oct 20 - 03:55 AM

It seems there's nothing this bozo can't turn into a publicity stunt. I suppose it's a lot easier than actually doing your job.


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Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Oct 20 - 04:19 AM

He’s totally insane.


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Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Oct 20 - 10:18 AM

Apparently trump refused to allow an engineer on to his boat in 1983 because he was black - how appalling.


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Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 20 - 10:55 AM

Almost as appalling as the suggestion that defenceless, destitute families fleeing torture, rape, murder in their own countries, and begging the UK for asylum should be sent to Ascension Island, or incarcerated on disused oil rigs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 01:31 AM

Today it was 'discovered' that instead of the 16 or 18 that had been revealed as having tested positive, there are at least 34! Most of them trace to the (outdoor!) event when Coney Bartlett was introduced. She herself is reported to have had the virus in July and recovered but it is not yet known whether a recovered person may still shed virus cells.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 09:48 AM

Ebbie, where did you see that?

I'm thinking the press can work their way through the known individuals at that Sept. 26 event.

This Washington Post article gives you a good look at each attendee. It was updated yesterday.

Here is a New York Timeslook at attendees.

I think the one and only presidential "debate" is all they're going to do. No one in their right mind would want to get near any of the White House crowd who work on Trump events (regardless of the Hatch Act - another issue that seems to be largely ignored by the GOP and White House employees).

There is so very much wrong with how Trump conducts himself and minds the main chance in this office.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 03:06 AM

“It is high time that we all stopped being tools and victims of totalitarian techniques — techniques that, if continued here unchecked, will surely end what we have come to cherish as the American way of life,”

senator Margaret Chase Smith June 1, 1950


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 05:11 AM

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/34-people-connected-white-house-previously-infected-coronavirus/story?id=73487381

Sorry, Stilly River Sage, I've forgotten how to make a link.
    Fixed. Joe


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 01:29 PM

There is a UK TV programme called Frankie Boyle's New World Order, which is essentially a comic programme but of late they have discussed quite a few quite serious topics in amongst it. This week Armando Iannucci was reflecting on a fear he had that if Trump loses, through Trump TV or whatever, states that voted Republican could continue to follow him with bare compliance to federal rulings, and he could remain a major influence on the US through his dedicated followers, who would easily accept the story of a stolen election. This could be a major running sore in the US for years to come.

I have to say it sounded quite plausible to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 05:16 PM

" (White Nationalists) Stand ready" is a Trump quote. The effect was speeding up the arrest of white nationlists who were going to kidnap and kill the Democratic Govenor of Michigan and law enforcement. In the FBI arresting killers any time to the left of - BOOM - is better than waiting too long. It is hard work being a spy inside hate groups. The othr informers come from the hate groups themselves such as guy who hate the government but ar against killing cops. In a way democracy unravels plots from the inside.

The Trump quote of calling 50,000 armed citizens to watch the polls will have the effect of post election disruption regarding mail in ballots.

If you watch carefully Trump is trying to emulate everything Putin has done from arresting political opponents to election manipulation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 05:58 PM

Trump will be so mired in legal troubles that he won't have time to direct his misbegotten army. It's clear that the numbers are coming out, his income sources are drying up, his partners in crime are being charged and jailed and Barr is out of dirty tricks.

But this last four months of his "presidency" aren't going to be pretty and it's going to be painful for all. Picking up the pieces is going to take a lot of work come January 20.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM

"Stand back ... stand by" is what he said, as I recall. Same implication - but with just the slightest hint of ambiguity which trump, despite his seeming inability to control language, always seems just cunning enough bring to his most dangerous pronouncements.

Btw - nobody seems to be paying much attention to the fact that Pence, like his master, would not commit to a peaceful transition of power. These fascists clearly welcome murder and mayhem - it's not just the madman trump ....


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 11:30 PM

That seemed telling to me too, meself. Frankly, Pence surprised me in a number of ways. I already knew I don't like his positions but I took him at his word that he in an honorable man- and he is NOT. I was surprised at his ease in lying without so much as a twitch of an (inflamed) eyelid. He is a lot quieter than the current pResident, almost soporifically so, but obviously he is in the camp he wants to be in.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 07:22 AM

Trump and friends want a Covid relief check to go out to everyone 2 weeks before the election. This will put the Post Office in a real bind with ballotts combined with Checks. This is in McConnel's court now if Pelosi can reach a deal.
btw Trump's name is on the stimulus checks.

As for the terrorist American Taliban white nationalists vs. the Army, Navy, Air Force, Space Force and Marines - many of the terrorists are retired Marines. The FBI leads the investigations but local sheriffs call kidnapping govenors "arresting" govenors.

Now a prayer: Lord please let Trump become an example of how not to rest and heal. He could still accidentally save some lives by bad example.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 11:35 AM

In our heart of hearts I think many people wish Trump could experience some of the misery he has visited upon so many.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 01:28 PM

I suppose we can expect something akin to the Comey letter when election day nears, the donald does like to replay his greatest hits over and over. It will be interesting to see the amount of social distancing and masks worn at today's potential super-spreader event at the White House.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Hrothgar
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 08:39 AM

The Last Trump

Andrew Barton ‘Banjo’ Paterson

‘YOU led the trump,’ the old man said
With fury in his eye,
‘And yet you hope my girl to wed!
Young man! your hopes of love are fled,
’Twere better she should die!

‘My sweet young daughter sitting there,
So innocent and plump!
You don’t suppose that she would care
To wed an outlawed man who’d dare
To lead the thirteenth trump!

‘If you had drawn their leading spade
It meant a certain win!
But no! By Pembroke’s mighty shade
The thirteenth trump you went and played
And let their diamonds in!

‘My girl! Return at my command
His presents in a lump!
Return his ring! For understand
No man is fit to hold your hand
Who leads a thirteenth trump!

‘But hold! Give every man his due
And every dog his day.
Speak up and say what made you do
This dreadful thing—that is, if you
Have anything to say!’

He spoke. ‘I meant at first,’ said he,
'To give their spades a bump,
Or lead the hearts, but then you see
I thought against us there might be,
Perhaps, a fourteenth trump!’

They buried him at dawn of day
Beside a ruined stump:
And there he sleeps the hours away
And waits for Gabriel to play
The last—the fourteenth—trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 08:51 AM

Our boneheaded Florida governor and trump sycophant, Pete Desantis, was filmed yesterday at trump's rally in Sanford (where Trayvon Martin was murdered) high fiving mostly maskless attendees and then wiping his nose with the same hand. This sort of recklessness and stupidity from a public official as COVID19 numbers are rising in more than 30 states is mindboggling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 09:09 AM

That's Ron DeSantis and here's the story:

msn.com


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 09:13 AM

And just like that it's a music thread. Nice one, Hrothgar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 10:58 AM

Trump's first choice for VP was Ivanka not Pense.
Things could always be worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM

Well, Homer Simpson was seen sporting a badge that said "Ivanka 2028".

All done as a humongous joke but as Shakespeare wrote Jesters do oft prove prophets

And "worse" could be if Trump refuses to accept defeat. You have civil war, and civil it won't be!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 10:48 AM

It's more and more clear that he might not ever say the words but everyone will know he was defeated, and he'll be ushered out of the White House when the time comes. I suspect there will have to be some legislative move to take him out of the White House before January 20 when he completely blows a gasket. Trump will prove to be the most repulsive "lame duck" the nation has ever seen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 12:57 PM

He and his gang will have almost three months put legal strategies into effect - and with a partisan Supreme Court, who knows what will happen .......?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 02:42 AM

Words almost fail me, but there is an even more 'out there' story courtesy of the New York Times and coming from a quite literal Trump worshiper: It can only go under the name of- Trump Apotheosis


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 03:20 AM

Clearly he was as insane as the Fart he worshipped.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 07:07 PM

I have the PBS News Hour on and was just watching a clip of a Trump speech from this afternoon. He keeps holding his hand up in the "ok" symbol, but that has been identified as now firmly a dogwhistle for the white supremist appropriation.

The 'OK' Hand Gesture Is Now Listed As A Symbol Of Hate. This story is from a year ago, so it isn't like it just popped up now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 02:58 AM

I detest it when signs and language are taken over to represent extremism. I resent any suggestion that if I use the OK hand sign that I might be associated in any way with white supremacism. It is my language just as much as it is the lowlife's.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 11:55 AM

Agreed on that.

I didn't watch either event last night. I've already voted, I don't need to make up my mind (and there was never any consideration of Trump ever).

The trouble with people speculating about what he might or might not do is that these folks give him ideas. I wish everyone would shut up and just hunker down till this is completely finished.

I think Biden is going to have to add two more justices to the Supreme court after McConnell is out of power. And Biden is going to have to codify in law a number of things that the Supreme Court decreed that are slowly being chipped away - the most conspicuous are marriage equality and the right to abortion. Once they're laws, the Supreme Court is out of that (for a while, anyway). And they'll need to do it within the first two years if the Democrats sweep the house, senate, and presidency. The "blue dog" Democrats threw a spanner in the works when Obama was first elected, those individuals elected in Republican areas who are determined to hold onto their jobs by going against everything the party is working on the keep their bases happy. Someone will need to take them aside and explain the concept of "greater good."

Did anyone listen to the Barrett hearings when Senator Whitehouse illustrated, very carefully, how the Federalist Society has been supported by a few huge donors and how they move people around but still end up with the same results - that 80 out of 80 decisions that these donors wanted were agreed to, 5-4, by the Supreme Court? I'll have to see if his half-hour was recorded somewhere and post a link. It was a real education.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 06:26 PM

I don't know why Biden and Harris don't just say, "Nothing's off the table" or something equally pithy when they're asked about expanding the Supreme Court - their waffling on the question looks ridiculous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 12:46 AM

Their not answering one question looks ridiculous? What are you doing, applying traditional standards to presidential candidates? Trump waffles dozens of times a day and people don't seem to hold it against him.

Dog help us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 01:19 AM

You said it: they don't hold it against trump. But they do hold it against Biden.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 05:45 AM

I doubt if even many Trumpophiles actually believe a word he says. They just don't think it matters.

Mind, he can speak the truth - I've just been seeing him proclaim to a cheering crowd of the faithful "We are all headed round the curve" - which take it is the same as declaring that he and his supporters are giingriund the bed, which is clearly the case..


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 08:14 AM

A recent trump waffle would be his petty denial of federal aid to California for those disastrous wildfires. It's a state he has no chance of winning and often uses as a liberal punching bag so therefore he's not interested in the human suffering taking place. No doubt the California GOP congressional delegation howled like banshees, this coming so close to the election, and he relented. Wether it's a flip flop or a waffle it's just another indication of his complete lack of humanity.
I'll take Biden and his "waffles" or "Any Other Reasonable Adult", for that matter, over this odious creature any day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 20 - 08:04 AM

Sorry about the rather strange typo in my last post - for "giingriund the bed" read "going round the bend". Maybe my ipad has picked up a trumpian virus...
.......


Truth - this mudelf corrected several typos and spacing issues, but couldn't make head nor tail of that last collection of letters. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 08:17 PM

The OK sign also means Asshole in ASL...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 10:52 PM

Apparently Trump stormed out of an interview with Leslie Stahl of 60 Minutes. I'm sure that program on Sunday evening will show him leave in all of his petulance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 04:14 AM

I wish that the number of Justices were changed by the new administration to 13. There is nothing sacrosanct about the number in the court- the first number was three. If there were thirteen and Biden filled the four vacancies, a 7 to 6 split would reflect very well where this country is historically, morally and politically.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 09:32 AM

Trump and his Republican sychophants seem intent on dismantling everything that makes the USA the USA. I don't know why anyone would vote for him, or ANY of them.
...of course, I came from a generation where the kids on the playground who were the bad guys were Nazis.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 09:27 PM

Ebbie, in the Islamic religion the number 9 is sancrosanct. Count the number spires on the Taj Mahal. Its a more important # than 72.

Stand bake, stand bready.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 10:02 PM

In the coming weeks, the election obstruction and results will define the country for a generation. These are perilous times. Over the last four years, much of what I hold dear has been threatened – democracy, civility, truth. The country is at a crossroads. The Supreme Court hangs in the balance – and with it, the future of abortion and voting rights, healthcare, climate policy and much more. Science is in a battle with conjecture and gut instinct to determine policy in the middle of a pandemic. At the same time, the US is reckoning with centuries of racial injustice – as the White House stokes division along racial lines, violence, institutional corruption and lies.

Villains have a way of coalesing the 'good' and bringing us to the brink of hitting a reset button for our future and our legacy.
Do what makes you proud and be kind. This is coming from someone who has never been on Facebook or Twitter and is possibly a smart thing for you to do for Democracy. That kind of social media we can live without.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 11:20 PM

I am seeing more Biden signs in my neighborhood than Trump signs, and I live in what is considered a GOP stronghold. I hope they're so ashamed of their party and Trump that they aren't promoting the bastard (even if they vote for him on Nov. 3). Or they quietly vote for Biden.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 02:36 AM

Stilly River Sage, I am glad to hear that. Since I am almost entirely home-bound(in self-isolation) I don't get to see campaign signs. I hope it's a good omen. What scares me is that if I were a secret 'admirer' of the trumpet I would be embarrassed to admit it publicly and therefore might not put up a tRump sign. God. I can hardly wait for Election Day and yet I am so scared.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Hrothgar
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 06:25 AM

In the absence of compulsory voting (which I think is the best thing in the Australian political system), it seems that one of the major factors going for Biden will be the number of people who won't vote for him, but can't bring themselves to vote for Trump again - who will abstain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 07:10 AM

I wouldn't want compulsory voting.
People who were only voting in order to avoid a fine might just put their cross against some candidate without thinking about or even knowing what that candidate intended to do if elected.
An interesting alternative might be a box for a choice of 'None of the above'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 07:21 AM

Donuel - not just define your country, but define the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 07:27 AM

It might be more effective and more popular to combine elections with a free lottery.

The none of the above option opens the question, what do you do when that option gets the most votes. Rerun the election, and you still get the same result...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 09:46 AM

Voting is a duty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 10:44 AM

I just read on youtube a comment from an anti-trumper who identifies as a "Christian", and who claims that "most Christians" (I know, I know) support trump because they see that as the way to hasten the "End Times" .... The poster was not being facetious, but explanatory.

It leaves me at a loss for words.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 04:43 PM

Random people were asked "How is Trump actimg?"
man: "He's acting like a crack head."
woman: He's acting cheesy and whines alot"
cowboy: "He'a acting like Yosemite Sam."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 06:18 PM

Who is enough of a glutton for punishment to watch the "debate" tonight? I'm thinking I'll stream some Netflix. I already voted, and the recapped details will be in the ether for a while afterwards.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 07:37 PM

The only reason to watch is so you'll know what everyone is yapping about for the next couple of days - for the public water-cooler talk, as it were. Or if you've been following the whole rigmarole the way you might a ridiculous sit-com, well, this is just the latest episode.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 10:11 PM

The debate, which I have been watching, has preempted my Star Trek show.

Got my first debate Bingo at 9:30 Mudtcat time. But I kinda cheated, like one square was Schools or Guns.

And "18 angry democrats" is a great name for a rock band. Thank you, Dave Barry, for that concept.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 07:36 AM

I'm a big Dave Barry fan.

Trump: WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?

Biden: Now you know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 09:52 AM

Vote for Dull & Dreary , down with Dumb & Destructive.


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Subject: BS: TRUMP WINS 2020 ELECTION
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 02:05 PM

YOU KNOW HE'S GONNA SAY HE DID even if he doesn't.
Can the Supream Court once again 'prove' it?
Unfortunately covid wins 2020.
Trump might win 200 electoral votes imo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 04:16 PM

Trump's action, to blow past the COVID precautions at the White House, is apparently totally followed by Pence's office, where five people have come down with the infection. If someone hadn't leaked the news, they wouldn't have said anything about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 05:19 PM

Today, whilst I was driving back to the mental health clinic
(having gone to cast my vote in person),
I heard on the radio that Mister President
would be speaking at the airport rally
in Manchester, New Hampshire.
Whereupon

I resolved not to listen to the news again for the rest of my drive,
and focused on music station broadcasts instead.
Anyway, yes, I voted.
And my spiral notebook has on it
the little red white and blue sticker
that was given to everybody at Town Hall after voting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Oct 20 - 05:54 PM

Trump is a working class NERO !

he only worked to con.

soon he'll be a zero

once he is good and gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 20 - 02:33 PM

https://brokeassstuart.com/2020/10/27/what-to-do-if-trump-refuses-to-concede/

Political sock puppets


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 07:52 AM

Where is "Spitting Image" when we need 'em? "Last Week Tonight" can't do the entire job by itself!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 01:35 PM

I can not see Trump ever going to the grocery store.
I can see Biden going to the ol General store and buying some calico for his wife, 50 lbs of flour and a warm Sarsaparilla drink.
Maybe a copy of Malarchy Monthly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 04:37 PM

This is the kind of thing that matters. While tweets and shenanigans take our eyes off the ball, we elect folks who get to appoint many many judges and justices and weaken our non-partisan civil service.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 04:59 PM

"Where is "Spitting Image" when we need 'em? "

New series of Spitting Image is on BritBox.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 08:08 PM

It feels like we are in the days of Deathly Hollows part 2.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 20 - 08:01 AM

The former GOP is now the PWG PARTY of WHITE GRIEVENCE and faces a referendum. With Selecting Barbie Coney Barret for the SUPREME COURT the court is now 100% Catholic. I'm for diversity and am not anti catholic although I am anti cult.

I don't know if she is Mel Gibson's dad catholic or not. Signs point to extreme cultism as a member of People of Praise. Does she think the Spaniish Inquision had good people on both sides? I don't know. She wouldn't say. I get the feeling she is a classicly trained liar.

A solution is expanding a reformed court. Court packing sounds bad like Fudge packing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 09:56 AM

If you are an ass hole who likes to out shout, show weapons, insult and disrespect others - there is MORE for you to do with Traffic.

https://nypost.com/2020/11/01/trump-caravans-snarl-traffic-on-garden-state-pkwy-mario-cuomo-bridge/

To be fair and balanced the left also fucks with traffic
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35854279

The FBI is investigating how trump pick up truck caravans tried to run the Biden Harris bus off the highway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 04:59 PM

Um Kagan and Breyer are jewish...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 09:26 AM

Let the Don'l overflow of quickly written misinformative utterances proceed. When we learn to deal with it, we learn to deal with Trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 06:16 PM

robomatic I am glad you still support freedom of speech and independant judgement of my supplied links. I pay close attention to your aeronautical posts, you are practically an amateur expert. I would like your opinions on canards but you seem hostile toward me again in an amusing way. You are sounding much the same as you did 20 years ago, but with a name like robomatic I expect repetition. Robo its time you present evidence for your claims if you want to regress back to your old flame war stance. Who knows, I might believe you. :^?

I assume Trump is still tweeting too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 07:03 PM

DonTrumpuel!

You are the replacement for the Chump. You post maybe truths and maybe falses and you take back nothing. It's a guessing game with you like the clock that doesn't run.

I am not hostile to you nor the other trump. I merely point out that your posts are haphazard as to truth and relevance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 08:35 AM

It is debatable if Donald J Trump will EVER deliver a concession speech
but I have the exclusive copy of an initial concession speech approved by the President and written by Bannon and Miller. It was leaked to me by the White House Dry Cleaner who found this copy in a suit jacket along with a bottle of Viagra and steroids:

"Four score and seven votes short of victory shows fraud - but the only fraud is fraud itself. Nobody is a President like ME.
You are not going to have President Trump to be kicked around and fake newsed anymore because I will continue the cause to make my cause ME.      Everybody knows Biden was not born in this country and his son's emails in Ukraine will lock Joe up. -long pause- There is no Covid, only crazy doctors bribed to report fake deaths.
America, I love it, has ruthlessly attacked me and my family. January second is a date which will iive in infamy. This coup you must stand ready to fight in the bars, the churches the suburbs and the fields.
You know who to obey! Thank you."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 09:04 AM

page 2- one liners

Make America Great Again, If you are white you're right, If its too close to call its fraud, Antifa did it, You know in your heart you have to Trump, We'll see, Everybody says I'm number 1, Its all fake video and audio, I'm immune and so are you, Open America, open the brothels, the bars, the churches, the schools, the hospitals, Ther were good people on one side, reach for Bleach and Oxy, STOP THE VOTE...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 10:13 AM

...but only in states where I'm ahead...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 10:31 AM

btw, The dry cleaner was also blind and Ukrainian.

Stop the vote, continue the vote, massage the vote, pee on the vote... he is all over the place in the desperate bizarre death throws of 'winning fatigue' (the new Republican term for defeat).


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 12:14 PM

Trump has no standing to in any way, shape, or form affect the states as they count their votes. And I've heard comments that the supposed lawsuits appear to have been written by a child, they don't address all of the features such as harm and remedy, that would normally be included in such documents.

Maybe he'll blow an aneurism and put us all out of our misery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 09:54 PM

I ignored the news all day and just now turned on the news. I made the right decision.

I heard that Nevada is not releasing its totality of count until they hear the media pronounce their name correctly. ('vad' to rhyme with 'vat').


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 09:59 PM

nEWT gINGRICH, lEWANDOWSKI, mCcONNEL, jIM jORDEN AND hANNITY are all playing the victim card and are like lambs to the slaughter of vote stealing. They are appealing to the PEOPLE to rise up. I bet they will rise up long enough to find their remote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 09:34 AM

Ted Cruz has added his voice to the fraud conspiracy. It seems all is forgiven for Trump's attack against Ted's wife and father.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 07:49 AM

No, I can't forget that evening
Or Fox News as votes were leaving
But I guess that's just the way the story goes
I always yell but in my eyes my anger grows
Yes, it grows
No, I can't forget tomorrow
When I think of all my sorrows
When I had the white house then they turned it off
And now it is not fair they turned off the power
The fucking power
I can't lie, if lieing is without power
I can't grift, I can't gripe any more
Can't live, if living is without TV
I can't tweet, I can't tweet any more
Well, I can't forget that evening
Or the disgrace of losing
But I guess that's just the…


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 09:07 PM

Fred Trump, Donald J.'s father, described
in Mary Trump's book as a sociopath,
owed much to Elisabeth, his widowed mother,
for bringing him into business in New York
after his father's death.
Fred was a minor, and needed Elisabeth's patronage (matronage??)
to get started.

When the formidable widow Elisabeth was elderly,
and her progeny successful,
she would go around to the Trump family residential properties,
proceed to the coin-operated laundry provided for tenants there,
and empty the coin-operated machines of their coins.

Whenever I wash my dirty laundry at
a coin-operated laundromat,
I shall remember the Trump dynasty, henceforth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 09:45 PM

Robomatic, you cracked me up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 03:13 AM

Trump has farted and thus departed, graffiti toilet wall 2020


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 05:35 AM

One thing the donald and his various GOP ass-kissers hasn't explained yet, in all of his lathered ranting about voter fraud, is why the perfidious Democrats deprived him of the presidency but didn't bother to ensure a Democratic majority in the senate while they were rigging the vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 06:41 AM

Pardon me, excuse me, pardon me, EXcuse me! PARDON ME

Trump is on the verge of pardoning HIMSELF!

It has never happened before and although this is only a prediction, pardons will be coming for his kids and cons. Who he does not pardon will be his vengeful punishment.

My prediction for Trump electoral votes was 207. It stands at 214. For Trump to successfully pardon himself is unlikely. Will he try? You betcha.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 11:55 AM

On self-pardons https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/explaining-the-presidential-self-pardon-debate

"Richard Nixon reportedly asked for an internal legal opinion about the option of a self-pardon towards the end of his presidency. The President’s lawyers said he had the power to issue a self-pardon, but Nixon declined to do so.

But just before Nixon’s resignation, the Justice Department Office of Legal Council issued its own memo on the subject, on August 5, 1974. “Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the President cannot pardon himself,” said Mary C. Lawton, Acting Assistant Attorney General."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 08:01 AM

This photo of Melanias's reaction to Donald on Veterans day shows me the terror she feels from his depression, rage and delusion over the election. ah oh


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 08:45 AM

”This photo of Melanias's reaction to Donald on Veterans day shows me the terror she feels from his depression, rage and delusion over the election. ah oh”

Link doesn’t work - error code 401.

Replaced with working link. Yahoo images in "Melania 'distances' herself from Trump in Veterans Day photos" ---mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 04:37 PM

Trump is live from the Rose Garden on TV announcing the readiness of the vaccine (General distribution in April) and how it will not be shipped to New York for some reason until the New York Governor somehow approves it.

Odd that it's not the VP who is supposedly the titular head of the National response allowed to make such announcements. Furthermore, the white house website which usually airs live briefings is not airing this one.

The Trumpster sounds as addled as ever, quoting whatever figures he's cherry-picked for the 'now'.

First public speaking since the election, and still going on, so I don't know if he's going to take questions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 06:31 AM

Has anyone heard of Trump's addiction to amphetamine - namely Adderall?
Noel Casler has plenty to say on the subject. And blames some of the antics on it. He says it stiffens the top lip and there are plenty of images that support the effect on Trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 08:16 AM

Sorry. its already a famous photo

WHERE DOES TRUMP GO FROM HERE?
He is actually planning a streaming service to continue his omnipresence. Of course it will be an existing platform like Newmax that is to the right of Fox with its sister channel AHC (All Hitler Channel 24 7)
Programing will include segments like; Trumps Hip Hop tour of Alaska, Stormy Danials Rains, Diamond and Silk, The Greatest Trump tweets, Trumps Virgin birth AND Movies like 'Gone with the Wind', Birth of a Nation, Wall St., Greed is Good, Home Alone and lots of Mel Gibson movies. The streaming service will also serve as a Presidential Book-free Library.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 08:31 AM

I may even tune in to watch the show 'COD Piece' which covers the Conspiracy of the Day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 10:08 AM

Mr. Red OMG that link with Noel Casler was so in depth I could not look away. The ugly truth was so odiferously horrific you can not do anything but stare for an hour.
That is one dangerous link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV9PJQUXsKM

It is like how one would believe a Private more than a General.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 03:48 PM

In the meantime, Fresh Air on Thursday had a show whose subject was the various ways that President (for the next couple months) Trump could yet impose his personality on things American and beyond:

what trump might do with his remaining weeks in office

It calls for a somewhat moderate strong stomach. Or, skip lunch first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 04:18 PM

I'm not opening any links for which I might need a strong stomach.
It's bad enough seeing all these adverts for earwax - they really make me feel ill.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 06:42 PM

Ah! Nice to know I'm not the only prissy one ... !


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 07:58 AM

Perhaps it is an obscure reference to what America should have done to Don long ago. Ear whacks

ie box his ears


OK, OK, I'll get my coat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM

The FBI has reported an historic all time high in hate crimes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 02:51 PM

Trump is telegraphing to the Iranians and Taliban in Afghanistan that he's removing troops (even though the House, Senate, and Joint Chiefs of Staff don't want the change). Trump seems to be intent on getting more people killed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 09:01 AM

Over hear we are not hearing much about the turnip in the news. Is it because he is now just sulking with his thumb stuck in his mouth, or is it because the turnip is now a nobody who tantrums are no longer newsworthy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 09:07 AM

Silence is golden but it may only hide evil and not help stop it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 09:50 AM

I am reminded of accidentally dripping hot wax from a red candle onto one of my twins while making a jack-o-lantern, he must have been around 3. He yelps, I say sorry, and he looks at the red drops on his forearm and asked, is that blood? I said no, dear, it's candle wax. His little face screwed up and he wailed, but why did it whack meeeeee?
Thank you for that memory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 12:14 PM

Trump says donors are paying for recounts - they aren't.
Re election $ goes directly to Trump (not the Republican party) for maga marches and endless rallies.
This is the age of brown shirts and political street violence, or so Trump hopes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Elmore
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 10:01 PM

Madness. Trump and company have pushed me over the edge with their attempt to bully Michigan legislators into invalidating the presidential election. So, I did what any irate Democratic Socialist avowed agnostic 79 year old would; drank a half bottle of Scotch. and sent 25 bucks to Bobby Schuller for his 2021 Hour of Power calendar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 08:31 AM

After trying to buy and or intimidate electoral college electors and state legislatures his denoument is the supreme court. ""Et tu Amy?""
The last hope is a Pentagon Coup but he only has some recently appointed loyalists there. Then its just him and his cell phone.

Out of power he still will have Trump TV and the Real American Taliban Militias.

ps I knew a Robert Mueller. He was the son of Heinrich Mueller the butcher of Cyprus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 08:54 AM

I've been to Cyprus three times but can't speak for the butchers there. But I do know an excellent butcher in Benahadux in Almería province in Andalucía...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 12:11 PM

What about the ancient carved caves of Malta?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 12:35 PM

I'll go there one day and let you know. It's on the bucket list.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 05:46 PM

On the serious side, Florida and some other like minded states are introducing an EXPANDED 'stand your ground law' by making it a felony to block traffic BUT a person who kills people with a gun may be considered innocent under justifiable homocide law as long as they say they were protecting business' from protesters.

Technically you face 5 to 10 years for crossing the street while a killer with an AK can murder legally.

These laws remind me of the anti Juden laws in the 30's.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 06:45 AM

Just curious, at what point would a court make a distinction between the legitimacy of taking a pot shot to protect premises just because the business owner doesn't like the look of the protestor, and a protestor who is violently trying to gain entry to a premises.

Also, and more importantly, would a court apply the laws equally to a white supremacist protestor intimidating a business run by a black person.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 03:35 PM

Trump seems to want to continue to collect money from the public so has suggested he will run for office again in 4 years. So he may try to keep that militia of right-wing gun-toting lunatics stirred up (as a big chunk of his voting base).


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 07:38 PM

Rittenhouse arrested for murder, the kid with an AK 47 at a protest, is out on 2 million dollars bail. I assume right wing $ is involved.
The problem with the street violence Trump wants to magnify is that Antifa is more of an illusion than a real organized movement like the Communists in Hitler's Germany.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 09:43 PM

This odd fellow Nero was surely no hero
Drunk on wine and playing his lyre
While people were dying and Rome was on fire
And then there was Trump

Things got hairy under Queen Bloody Mary
A hag with a heart made of stone
London was grim and England quite scary
Gravediggers grew callouses trying to bury
All those she killed when she took the throne
And then there was Trump

And Marie Antoinette who infamously said
Shortly before she would soon lose her head
When told that the people were lacking in bread
Wondered why they didn't enjoy a nice pastry instead
And then there was Trump

Hitler and Stalin, God you should have seen 'em
A couple of Hell's wickedest demons
Who slaughtered tens of millions between 'em
And then there was Trump

When history tots up every foul evil ruler
From the imbecilic drooler
To the dumpster fire fueler
Trying to judge which was the crueler
Well then there was Trump


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 09:47 PM

Oh, by the way Donuel there was right wing $ involved in footing Rittenhouse's bail. It was Mike Lindell, the My Pillow guy and former child actor Ricky Schroder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 10:33 PM

Right now there is a 60 Minutes article about the large number of school-age kids who are 'off the grid' as in, they were in school last year, but haven't shown up in schools or on line, in the E-12 timeline. I'm not saying that our fearless leader is responsible for this. I am saying that the lack of organized response to our Covid Crisis that emanates from the top down has played a big part in a coming sub-population of non or under-educated citizens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 05:53 AM

What;s an E-12 - sounds like a food additive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 06:00 AM

It looks like trump is in for a very active retirement and it won't be all tee times and liasons with pornstars.

WaPo


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 09:51 AM

Listing all the kindred spirits in style and substance would be all well and good but it is a talent I don't have with names, especially fake names. Critics are just as helpful in the long run but are names easier to remember probably due to 'threat memory'.

It does not feel like a world of right or wrong anymore.
It feels like SANE or INSANE.

Perhaps it has always been the case but its more obvious to me now.
I have always supported helping people regain their sanity...
But where and how do we profit to help Trump to regain a sanity he has never had? Sometimes there is no cure. I only know that truth and its delivery system humor, is an effective vaccine to stem the infection of insanity.

It is my belief more insanity is learned than are born with it.
Insanity itself is a pandemic. I repeat
Insanity itself has its own pandemic today.
Socially distancing ourselves from insanity has always been done.
When the insane gather on social media, infection spreads uncontrolably.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 08:20 AM

SPB-Cooperator: E-12 is a reference to U.S. educational progress of Elementary school through 12th grade, the final year of high school.

Apparently the Current Occupant's tweets have yielded a guarded concession to the idea of transition should all the bogus moves to reverse the actual election fail, which they are doing.

It's so hard to believe that there will be no repercussions to the myriad of Republican legislators and of course FOX bloviaters who have basically lambasted the orderly progression of American institutions. There seems to be no sense of the ludicrous or even basic irony between what they have alleged of the other side and what they are performing in broad daylight right now, seeking to overturn popular votes, insisting that there is evidence without any citations of evidence. Accusing everyone but themselves of base motives.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 06:56 PM

Bannon awaits his trial regarding fraud
Trump awaits charges from NYS

After that it looks like prosecution for others will be up to the voters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 09:02 PM

Flynn, former national security advisor and agent for Turkey, got a presidential pardon via tweet.


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Subject: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 02:09 PM

More executions - what a shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 02:38 PM

How long before one of his own inner team
stealthily sneaks up from behind and permanently turns his lights out...???

".. Et tu, Brute?.."...


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Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 02:55 PM

I've seen enough to believe Trump and his Republican toadies want people to die, to lose their health insurance, and homes, and want the country, and every good thing we've ever stood for destroyed. I think it's treason, but nobody who CAN do anything about it has the guts to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Helen
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 04:02 PM

I think the people around him are distancing themselves from him by just quietly melting away into the shadows. They don't want to associate with someone with a big L for Loser branded on his forehead.

I thought I couldn't be shocked by anything else that he could do, but approving executions in his presidential lame duck period is the lowest of the low. How low can he go after this?

And I don't know who is on his executions list but I have read that generally Black people are disproportionately represented on the list of people due to be executed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 05:27 PM

Perhaps he's a paranormal potusgiest


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Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Helen
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 06:30 PM

Or COTUS? (Centre of the Universe Syndrome)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 02:04 AM

PFR, I did suggest a long time ago that if the turnip wanted to find his way into the record books, it couldn't go wrong by having a stab at breaking Harrison's record.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 08:20 AM

executions since July


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 05:45 PM

OK trump has 6 hours to sign a senate bill to keep the government open for one more week. He wouldn't want to close down the Supream Court would he?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:03 PM

From Don's link to the LA Times:

Starting in July, the Trump administration ended what had been a 17-year hiatus in the federal death penalty. The president quickly became the most executing president in a century as well as for most executions for any president in one year. As of Friday, he has overseen nine fatal injections at the federal prison in Terre Haute, Ind. All the while, of course, the White House has shown nothing but indifference to the deaths of nearly 300,000 from the COVID-19 pandemic.

Four more executions are set to take place before Biden takes office in January. Biden, not incidentally, has promised to work to end the death penalty altogether.

The latest Trump-ordered killing happened Thursday evening. Brandon Bernard’s execution was undertaken so recklessly that even lawyer Alan Dershowitz, usually a Trump defender, protested. Keeping up with newly minted prison reformer Kim Kardashian West, Dershowitz asked that Trump commute Bernard’s death sentence to life in prison without parole.

Dershowitz and Kardashian West rightly pointed out that Bernard was only 18 when he burned evidence in a failed carjacking that ended in two grisly murders. The jurors and prosecutors who convicted Bernard of murder now believe his sentence was unjust because his reasoning in 1999 was that of a minor and his participation in the actual murders is unclear.

If there’s even a hint of a doubt about a death row prisoner’s conviction, clemency should be granted. But that’s assuming a rational president with a micron of decency. Instead we have Trump.


Everything has to be taken to extremes with this sociopath.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:59 PM

4.1 percent of death row prisoners are proven innocent.
10 to 20% are reasonably innocent but technicalities and representation does not allow for truth to enter the process of justice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:30 PM

It's OVER. The Supreme Court tossed out the Texas lawsuit.

And the FDA approved the vaccine and is trying to explain that they did it the right way, not just because at the last minute Trump got impatient and threatened the FDA head with firing or having to quit if he didn't do it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:36 PM

Is trump going to be this petulant & litigative with the grim reaper and satan,
pathologically in denial that he died...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM

pfr, now there's a story for Terry Pratchett - if he was still here with us. Just imagine what sort of crazy situations and plotlines TP would have invented.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 06:27 PM

That storyline was used during/after Joe McCarthy with a twist on a LP called the Investigator.

Trump will become a twisted bitter sore loser except to his fanatics who feel the pangs of losing all to well.

True evil does not know how evil it is.
Even Hitler was a dog lover in his way but Trump holds dogs in contempt and involks the word dog for his most hated enemies.
Even the Grinch was a dog lover if you recall.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 07:13 PM

The Electoral College vote is supposedly officially in. Once again: It's Over. How many times are we gonna have to repeat it that way?

Trump and his yidiots have also 'officially' lost over 50 court cases.

This reminds me of something (almost) completely different.

In the Spring of 1945, German soldiers were fighting British and American forces on the West of Germany, and of course the Soviet Russians were coming in from the Eastern Front. One would think that the German attitude would be to surrender to the West and appeal for cessation of hostilities to avoid the worst that was about to come from the East. But a good German soldier was bound to resist to the last. So he felt obligated to fire every bit of his ammo into the Brits and Americans. Only when the bullets and grenades and shells were gone, he could honorably stand up hands up. Apparently many times to be surprised by enraged allies gunning him down.

This is sort of what the Replicants are doing: feeling that this is the last stage of a war and every avenue, from desperate to ludicrous, must be trod down.

And ludicrous it certainly is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 03:18 AM

Is this fake news or is it serious?

I would expect no more and no less of him but - seriously!!??

Scroll halfway down the page.

Trump tweaks showerhead regulation to make hair 'perfect'

The Trump administration has relaxed a regulation restricting water flow from showerheads.

It's a pet peeve of President Donald Trump, who complained that he wanted more water to make his hair "perfect".

Since 1992, federal law has dictated that showerheads shouldn't spew more than 9.5 litres of water a minute. As newer shower fixtures came out with multiple nozzles, the Obama administration updated the ruling, stating that 9.5L was still the limit regardless of how many nozzles were running.

The new ruling from the Energy Department, issued on Tuesday, now says each showerhead can emit 9.5L a minute.

"So showerheads — you take a shower, the water doesn't come out," Mr Trump said last summer.

    "You want to wash your hands? The water doesn't come out. So what do you do? You just stand there longer or you take a shower longer? Because my hair — I don't know about you, but it has to be perfect. Perfect."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 12:38 PM

It certainly echoes a Seinfeld episode that the Current Occupant may have seen.

When that person was behind a podium in the warmer weather of earlier in the year, the light passed right through his perfect coif and for a few moments we could see that when bereft of hair, he bore a striking resemblance to Ed Asner.*


*Sorry about that, Ed!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM

He's busy trying to throw obstacles in the way of Biden undoing his bad works. Meanwhile, there is a group of Democrats suggesting that Biden should, with the stroke of a pen, forgive $50,000 of school loan debt from Americans. The trouble is, that's not necessarily a durable or legal fix. Just because Donald did this by executive order - that should be a cautionary warning. Biden would prefer that the Congress affect that change, then it's legal and on the books the way it should be. We've had enough of this royal fiat nonsense that Trump wanted to continually deploy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 07:00 AM

The Covid relief bill has poison pill additions such as making it difficult to make a new Treasury secretary from suppling more aid. Also unemployment insurance was cut 25% from 16 weeks tp 12 weeks, direct checks are cut from 1,200 to 600 dollars, 100 billion dollar tax cut for corportions and less help for those facing eviction.
Trump will not sign the Defense budget and wants more say in the relief bill.

On the funny side Mara lago neighbors have shown that Trump signed a contract saying he can not reside at Mara Lago more than 3
consecutive weeks in order to make it a private club.
He will have to go to Doral (eww bedbugs) or probably a mansion formerly owned by a cocaine kingpin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 09:54 AM

The Covid relief bill carves out a bailout for 17,000 airline jobs but nothing for 3 million restaurant workers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 06:06 PM

The DH and I have been watching Antiques Roadshow on YouTube in the evenings, and that has made me antiques-conscious.

I have sent e-mails to my senator and representative, asking them to take steps to make sure Trump and his associates don't walk out of the White House with fine antiques that belong to the people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Dec 20 - 08:47 AM

White House dicussions with General Flynn include ordering martial law
in Trump States seizing voting machines to be adjusted correctly and having a do over election. Carl Rove has claimed that vote counters flushed Trump votes during their bathroom breaks. Some people had as many as 4 bathroom breaks. When interviewed one man said he had a double dump.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 20 - 09:48 AM

Karl Rove had the idea... back when... that with careful Gerrymandering and legal tricks, the system could be designed to create a 1000 year Reich Republicaneich.

   He failed for obvious reasons, but that wish/goal/concept still lives as a substitute for 'the will of the majority'. Combating it resembles combating new viruses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Dec 20 - 02:50 PM

Karl Rove , for those who don't know, appeared in the movie Indiana Jones and the ark of the the covanent'
He was the guy who burned his hand.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 12:48 PM

I doubt if anyone will see this but no one knows if the government is shut down or not, not even the people whose job it is to know and issue instructions.
What is known is that the Senate has left town and Donald is off to Mara Lago to possibly never return.
Before leaving he put the Covid Relief Bill into cryro sleep by saying he wants 2 grand for everyone and not just 600 dollars relief. Neither the budget or relief bill has been signed.

Many people in the White House have quit and the threat of putting all civil service workers on Schudule F which means they can be fired with no cause, have already quit.

I'm not joking.

Living on a government paycheck no longer means security.
With 28 days to go we are in a perfect storm of LIMBO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 01:01 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/12/23/trump-go-mar-lago-holiday-traffic-5-things-know-wednesday/3931007001/


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 02:15 PM

I just poked around Google Maps - Mar-a-lago is a straight shot east of the Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach. And that golf club is just across the street from the Palm Beach County Main Detention Center. Maybe Trump can get day passes out to golf if they arrest him.

One reason he probably moved his official residence to Florida is because of their way-generous policy of letting people who are bankrupt keep a whole bunch of stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 08:41 PM

ha ha ha ha a local neighborhood detention center

Is it really alarmist to say government shut down out loud?
Lincoln closed Congress for 6 months. Trump could do some damage
to the country with no end in sight.

D day is monday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 10:00 PM

Donald has VETOED the Defense Bill and has threatened the Omnibus relief bill with a possible veto..
Sorry Pentagon no Xmas for you

Monday is still the designated gov shutdeown day if no signiture is given.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Dec 20 - 05:13 AM

I forgot about the pocket veto which would put the relief budget bill dead after 10 days * except for Sunday. Deliberation would have to begin again at a new Congres. ???

The Defense bill veto could simply be over ridden.

January 6th Trump invited all his Nazi nuts to demonstrate in DC

I don't know how a government shut down effects these events in this limbo cliff hanger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Dec 20 - 10:56 AM

I wonder what kind of tantrum he'll pitch when [if?] they override the veto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Dec 20 - 04:25 PM

Attorney General Barr is being highlighted in the news now.
He's done some despicable things this past term.
God help us if things go from bad to worse in his department.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Dec 20 - 06:46 PM

The only way Trump can hit the 270 number is to lose 50 pounds.
Its tragic and ridiculus to even have to speak of the Donald.
Being so ridiculous he makes serious political commentators sound ridiculous and comedians sound serious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 20 - 03:46 PM

You suppose he'll try to beat his own record? He shut down the government for 30plus days once before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Dec 20 - 05:32 PM

Congress passed a law to make sure they still get paid during a shutdown. Some government workers won't be paid.

Look at it this way, he finally will fire everybody.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 20 - 06:18 AM

After hours of irrational tweets berating Congress, Sopreme Court and others, he did sign late last night. Crises of his own making averted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Dec 20 - 11:36 PM

Veto being overriden...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 20 - 03:37 PM

If Bill Murry had been there when President Trump was first being briefed on the global pandemic, we could have avoided a quarter million lives.

Bill Murry: "This is going to be real hell fire sir, Biblical destruction, cats and dogs living togethe...

Trump: What can I do?

Bill Murry: "Mr. President, if you lock this thing down with every possible precaution...Donnie, you could save the lives of four million registered voters..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 20 - 01:06 PM

Two days ago the newly elected R-congressman from Louisiana died of COVID-19, aged 41. Today I read that a newly elected congresswoman from Florida has tested positive and can't be sworn in on Sunday. (Here.) They may just kill themselves off by disregarding health and safety recommendations. "Salazar, a Republican, said on Twitter she was admitted to a local hospital with heart arrhythmia, commonly known as an irregular heartbeat, on December 23, before being tested for Covid-19. That test came back positive, she said."

And today, there is this: Joe Biden to have new Secret Service team amid concern about Trump loyalty
Although staffing changes are typical, several incidents reportedly contributed to the heightened concerns from Biden’s allies that some agents and officers might be loyal to Trump.

Some members of the president’s detail reportedly urged their colleagues not to wear masks during trips, for example – despite the federal government’s official guidance on Covid-19 – as Trump himself disparaged mask-wearing and held out for months before being seen wearing one in public.

In what was described as an “unprecedented” move, the Secret Service had permitted former detail leader Anthony Ornato to temporarily leave his role and serve as White House deputy chief of staff.

Ornato was among the coordinators of the June photo op for which Trump marched through Washington DC’s Lafayette Square to stand with a Bible – after peaceful protesters were forced from the area by troops on federal order, sparking uproar in political circles as well as among the public.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 31 Dec 20 - 01:31 PM

SRS, that seems like a sensible move by Biden. It would be a tricky situation, trying to work out who to trust and who are the rats in the ranks.

And I have been thinking exactly the same thought about Trunp's supporters: "They may just kill themselves off by disregarding health and safety recommendations."

On another note, this song kept popping into my head over the last couple of weeks. I finally worked out why.

He's making a list,
And checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice.
Trumpty-Dumpty's pardoning his friends.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Jan 21 - 04:23 AM

It seems to me that the Orange One is edging awfully close to inciting insurrection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jan 21 - 05:16 AM

Oops. Typo. Trump - not Trunp, although Trunp might be a Freudian slip related to truncated, i.e. a truncated stay in the White House.

Ebbie, I just read a couple of news items hinting that Trump returned to Washington because he might be plotting to challenge the final sign-off on the electoral college votes. Not a surprise, really but its success probably depends on how many of his supporters are still steadfastly in place on his sinking ship.

I'm still hoping he gets evicted as a trespasser when his time is up in the White House. I'm also hoping it is televised.

I also keep wondering how long it will be before Hollywood immortalises this whole saga and which political direction the fiction will veer towards.

The giant Trump-baby balloon seems more and more relevant the longer this saga continues. He certainly does not appear to be behaving as a mature, responsible adult but more like a tantrum throwing spoilt brat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 21 - 03:53 PM

I agree, Helen - I hope his eviction is televised. And I hope the National Archives are able to save all of the papers and records and files that his gang are no doubt destroying as fast as they can.

I look forward to reading about what the incoming administration finds and shares about Trump, but not to the point that nothing gets done. We could use a short time to wallow in the "we knew they were up to no good" news, then move on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jan 21 - 08:51 PM

The news of this weekend and this Monday is redolant of the phonecall that trump made to the Georgia elections official entreating/ suggesting/ recommending that the officals either negate their state vote tallies or amend them to give Trump a majority. He wasn't fussy about what actual numbers they would develop so much as they gave him a majority of one or more.
Story here.

So it's another phone call. It is suborning illegal activity, possibly perjury, and is totally equivalent to the kind of crap he tried to pull with the President of Ukraine, and didn't get away with.

Let's see how fast we can do another impeachement trial...Just sayin'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 21 - 02:05 AM

Tonight on one of the MSNBC talking head shows a pundit with Supreme Court case experience said that the suggestion he be impeached in the next two weeks isn't illogical - it would establish the fact that he can't run for office again if he is found guilty this time. That would be worth the turmoil, otherwise he'll be a perpetual bad penny, coming back again and again any time he can gin up enough media attention with antics, attached to the threat to run for office in four years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jan 21 - 04:29 AM

Yes, Stilly River Sage, that was Neal Katyal; I wouldn't mind seeing him as Biden's Attorney General, except that I already have a couple of other highly qualified people in mind for that position. The Democrats have a plethora of wonderful candidates for just about every post, so different from the dregs from which the Orange One chose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 21 - 06:36 PM

Fortunatly for all of us, Trump is a coward compared to Hitler. In the same position as Trump when Adolf was made chancellor by "senators" who thought they could control a useful idiot corporal, they did not forsee another coup and murder of fellow politicals.
If Twitchy the proud boy kills at the behest of Trump's wild days (Jan6) declaration its not on Donald. I doubt if Trump could shoot a disloyal Pense in the balls on 5th ave. either. A self pardon is too iffy. :^/
Could the Godfather contract a hit on Joe? Its a quantum universe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 05:31 AM

Killing Biden (a new book title for that sleaze who was fired by Fox News?) won't alter the fact that trump's term ends on the 20th, unless they figure out a way to use the constitution for tinder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM

Tkank you Mr.Trump. Thank you Mr. McConnell.
With your help by Sedition and cutting Covid relief by 70%
a Black, a Jew and a Woman's deciding vote has allowed
Democrats to take over the Senate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM

Neal Katyal - I knew his name, just not how to spell it. I do wish MSNBC would put up the names of people on those split screens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 01:01 PM

5,000 maskless people gathered to hear Trump outside today.

The loudest cheer came when Donald said BULLSHIT.
After an hour of bitter sore loser rants the crowd started going from foot to foot. They all had to pee. This body language was lost on Trump


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 02:31 PM

The President has been egging on his crowd to attack the capitol building. No yolk, they did and a few hundred got in. The Senators and Congressmen adjourned. Reporting is scrambled.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 02:50 PM

BBC radio news played a recording of a Trump supporter today describing his president, Donald Trump, as the 'Lord Jesus Christ'.
I find that scary.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM

There is no coordinated police response to the capitol attack.
The few that were there were beaten back. They must be those good people Trump talks about. There is an armed stand off inside the front door


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:19 PM

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/congress-electoral-college-vote-count-2021/h_4802bd3869eb3a4bc6512083add579df



I've seen pictures of guns drawn as a window is breached.
I have seen pictures of a protester sitting in Pense's Senate chair.


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Subject: RE: BS: A Changed USA Senate!
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:28 PM

So the Trumper morons have stormed the capitol. Much discussion a out what should be done. I'm fine with shooting the ones in there, and also the ones swarming the white house. At the very least, prosecute them all - every last one - as traitors. Perhaps the president, too. Impeach his ass - NOW.

(And they were bitching a bout Antifa.)
I moved this into this thread to hopefully limit having multiple threads talking about the same insurrection. -mod (JC)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM

Now its more violent. At least one person has been shot

There is no National Guard that the mayor called for days ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:44 PM

It seems the US military could be considered an internal terrorist training cult..???

How to deradicalise their extreme right wing brainwashing
when military personnel
retire to become civilians again...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:52 PM

The military has no fucking thing to do with this. I'm ex-military, and have friends who've retired. As far as I know, we're all pretty much dedicated to the way the country is supposed to be. Oddly enough, everyone I know voted for Obama, too. The "brainwashing" also has something to do with getting people to think the military is right-wing.
The National Guard has been called in to help end it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:56 PM

Treason, rebellion, sedition is being well demonstrated today.

These are not patriots they are modern day nazi brown shirts acting on orders of their Feurer.

This is not a peaceful transfer of power.
In two hours it will be dark. Maybe then police can be called.
I wonder how this would look If black lives matter occuppied the capitol, broke the windows and stormed the offices.
Good people on both sides huh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 04:12 PM

Right now Joe Biden is on national TV calling it 'insurrection'.

Other than that, I recommend that folks not take to reporting their take on what is happening. A lot of what is being posted is more fear than fact.

What is being lost, and has been over the past years, is a willingness to arbitrate our disagreements by discussion and a willingness to accept the decency of our opponents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 04:28 PM

The USA should be run by a Council of Native Americans & those who don't like it can repatriate to Europe, Africa, etc. The Trump family, e.g., may choose Scotland or Slovenia; & Biden has said "I'm Irish"; my WalkaboutsVerse poem on "Land Rights"


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 04:28 PM

Jeri - just offering a sarcastic UK perspective..

We tend to see mainly [purported] US Vets
presenting armed to the teeth extremist 'patriot' right wing youtube videos...

Biden just asked sadly how the rest of the world see you...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 04:46 PM

WashPo reports someone shot, at the Capitol. Great.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 05:39 PM

I am watching local news. I see the Trump mob attacking and chasing AP and other news crews away abbandoning their equipment like expensive large cameras, microphones and electronic cases yelling :enemies of the people. Some was looted but the remaining equipment was being stomped on.
robo sigh, don't be a fool. You are too smart for that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 05:41 PM

Funny I have not seen a single arrest.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 05:51 PM

The GOOD news is that floor staff acted on their own and hid the official electoral ballots (in 3 beautiful wooden trunks and other boxes) before the mob broke into the Senate chamber.
They have NOT been vandalized or burned.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 06:13 PM

If none of those rioters are arrested for sedition then there is some kind of inside nonsense going on to protect them. And it was too easy for the rioters to get control of the capitol - who was in charge of security for all of this?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 06:29 PM

OK, Punky - my bad. I'm probably taking everything too seriously just now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 06:38 PM

There were far too many idiots out there to manage mass arrests. Perhaps some were. Some folks were tear gassed and pepper-sprayed. I saw vans & buses coming & going... but the main goal was to get everything secured.
Curfew in place since 6PM.
Congress swears they will reconvene somewhere and finish their business.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 06:46 PM

This is far from over. There will undoubtedly be an investigation as to how the Capitol was breached by protestors. Someone was apparently shot by law enforcement and I have heard on the radio that they expired.

But let's not lose focus, as the current occupant and his extreme partisans (and DonTrumpuel) would have us do:

The latest Trump Action and Effect:

His tireless campaign to reelect two Georgia (Republican) Senators has resulted in the narrow but confirmed election of two Democratic Senators and a crack at a Biden Presidency with a Democratically effective Senate and House.

Yes, Virginia, there IS a Sanity Claus!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 07:05 PM

dear robo, do you have any evidence or proof that I have ever incited anyone to do anything? Your misinformation chestnut has spoiled and would be dangerous for anyone to eat.

Stilly I have avoided using the i word (inside job)
Moreso there was at least two weeks of planning by the proud boys. A small 5,000 crowd at the white house was joined from many side streets to 30,000 by the time people reached the capitol.

I do not blame the capitol police. They are trained to handle a lone gunman or small cadre. The windows and side doors of the capitol building are old and easily breached. Your average small bank has unbreakable windows.

The building is now called secure. It is not yet cleared for use but Pelosi is determined to resume tonight.











i


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 07:28 PM

Anyone else willing to pretend none of those maskless 'patriots' who broke into the capital were infectious? I hope they have a can of Lysol.

So far no zip tie arrests even for people carrying off government property or media equipment. hmmm


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:22 PM

DonTrumpuel:

You are simply the anti-Trump Trump. You peddle stuff that maybesometimes is allied to reality but by no means is guaranteed. Your successive post-on-posts does not contribute to the light. And it encourages a lot of cats to follow the laser pointer instead of the point.

Along with Trump you remind us that man must not completely lose his sense of smell.

For those who want current facts there is the current news. All DonTrumpuel does is repeat some of the one, or maybe add to some of the repeated stuff, or maybe not. I take it as observational and it is not always a dead loss. But sometimes it's a waste of time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:40 PM

This was not street theatre. This was an insurrection organized and orchestrated by a sore loser and these were his supporters who identify with him as sore losers as well. This kind of violent protest cannot be tolerated in a democratic society.

It's especially hard for me to watch because I've been in much larger protests, 400,000 marching in Washington in 1969, but we never stormed the Capitol or even the White House. We shook our fists and passed on by.

The last four years have been very sad, and now we are beginning 2021 on an even sadder note.

Only Trump is beaming from ear to ear. The SOB has done it again.

Charlie Ipcar


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:49 PM

Well, we're hearing some Republican retreat. First, the President of the Senate, Mike Pence, and just now, fresh from her defeat in her Georgia re-election campaign, Kelly Loeffler, who just made a rather heartfelt speech saying that she intended this morning to object to the certification of some delegates (to the Electoral College) but is not going to do so now.

Not a sea change. Yet. But by now maybe some Republicans are sensing diminishing returns of their Trumpallegiance.

Ah, the reliable motivation that remains! Self interest!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 10:12 PM

items on our national news - US politics live update
Twitter, Instagram & facebook have limited Donald Trump's account
White House Press Secretary Sarah Matthews has resigned
The First Lady's chief of staff has resigned over the violence in the Capitol


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 10:27 PM

Oscar Wilde observed:

"America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence without an intervening period of civilization."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 11:06 PM

Oscar Wilde was funny,
so was the Princess Bride quote "Good luck storming the castle".
Much more video is now released from the chaos inside the capitol.
Some Republicans have bailed but the rest of the objectors have doubled down. I have not editorialized these events at length, if at all, but if I did in one sentence it would be that democracy is better when it comes from everyone instead of from one shameful person like Trump.

PS robo, to see history repeat itself, you have to know history.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 11:20 PM

The quote is HAVE FUN storming the castle. Philistine.

I joke, because, today.

Wow. I have been embarrassed by my government, and by my fellow Americans, before... but this is cringe-worthy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 11:55 PM

I think I’m starting to see lizard people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:25 AM

Don does have a point in all of that - even as I watched the crowds rush the Capitol, I was also astonished at the number of people who still don't get it about wearing masks and maintaining their distance. Today was certainly a super spreader event. And now the house and senate are in on large room that had a bunch of non-distancing people in it earlier in the day, touching, breathing, and who knows what in there. Is the air filtration and the cleaning crew so good and swift that they were able to remove some of the excess hazard introduced into the room? Germs and guns.

Double-entendre there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:39 AM

Is Trump more cunniing that he first appears?
is he doing this to show and warn that he is too big to be impeached, to show that when he leaves office he has the power to still cause mayhem if he is prosecuted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:03 AM

Who the hell knows what goes on in the mind of trump, he's clearly gone around the bend and deserves to be arrested for inciting rebellion as soon as it's legally possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:21 AM

He's also a goddam coward, when exhorting the mob to move on the capital he said "I'll be right there with you" before slinking back to the White House to watch the riot in comfort and saftey.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:27 AM

"the Capitol", doh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM

With all due respect Gilly we know insanity when we see it.
We know the face of hate, racism and cowardice.

This was diagnosed and predicted. Now it is witnessed by everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:57 AM

With due respect you'd address me as gilly, trumpuel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM

If he is not arrested the USA will have lost the respect of the world for a generation.

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

trump may be immune from prosecution at this point but there's no reason that Rudy, Mo Brooks and trump jr. shouldn't be brought up on sedition charges.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 08:27 AM

#lockhimup


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:32 AM

After 100 years I know Americans very well. It has been a racist society for hundreds of years. Rightwing mobs, lynch mobs, murderous police mobs, racial massacre mobs are excused and given a nod while the left is considered dangerous, communist, godless and nigger lovers.

This is who we have been. Somtimes you have to wait for the old bastards to die off but tribalism has deep roots. The new confederacy in all its manifstaions is the old might makes right barbarism.
You are the bystander. When ever you hear "whatever" it is a passive supporter. If you hear "we love trump" it is an active supporter.

Most of you are old dogs and can't learn many new tricks. I can only hope you will not allow yourself to get tricked. Thats why I begin and end with the truth. The truth in history repeating it self, the truth of who we are andin who we are and what the alttrnatives can be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:44 AM

I try ignore your untethered, condescending, scatter-brained horseshit but it gets difficult at times.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM

i do not think he will be impeached , i hope i am wrong, Trump may be corrupt but so are many others , if trump is impeached he might expose others.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM

Something needs to be done because he can wreak a lot of havoc in the next 13 days. No one should be above the law.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:40 AM

American Airlines decided to stop serving booze on flights to and from dc as passengers were being belligerent about politics.

I bet nothing will happen to these particular politically belligerants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM

I think it was David Axlerod on CNN last night who related that Mitt Romney flies alone in coach and earlier this week was accosted on a flight back to D.C. by trumpophiles chanting "traitor".


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM

The video of that incident is being shown on BBC-TV News today, gilly. Disgusting aggression and bullying.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:48 AM

"Do not call what’s happening in Washington a protest. It’s a white supremacist insurrection, a seditious attack on democracy. This riot is yet another battle in a Civil War that has never ended, one that generations of white people have waged through lynchings, murder, intimidation, oppression, odious policies, and systemic racism.
"This is what President Trump — who should be arrested for inciting violence, never mind impeached again — wanted. He’s never cared about America, and he’d rather watch this nation burn than see it led by anyone else. Of course, the blame for this riot cannot end at the Oval Office.
"May it forever stain every Republican who refused to acknowledge Joe Biden as the president-elect. Let it shroud every GOP legislator who turned Trump’s loser pity party into a pointless effort to thwart the will of 81 million voters. Speak with shame the names of the men and women who fought against democracy and tried to pervert voter engagement into voter fraud. They own this horror, each and every one of them."


-- The Boston Globe, January 7, 2021


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM

I thought I would never say, good for you Mark Zuckerberg.
(trump banned on facebook)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 12:41 PM

I'm glad the globe and I see eye to eye.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:13 PM

25th Amendment...???

Mussolini and Ceau?escu might agree that's letting trump off lightly...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:14 PM

Today on The Takeaway (NPR) they spoke about the lack of arrests of domestic terrorists. One of the guests remarked that (paraphrasing) we need to look at police from the context of who they are there to protect compared to who they are there to control.

There's a reason why rioters were taking selfies with the local police. There's a huge problem of the affiliation of white supremacist groups in police forces around the country.

Yesterday it was VP Pence who called the National Guard, not Trump. There were several things Pence had to do because Trump wouldn't. Meanwhile, Ivanka was referring to domestic terrorists as "patriots." She'll look great in orange, especially once her roots grow out.

Trump needs to be removed from office, if only for the humiliation of the act. Impeach him, declare him incompetent and remove him. Just get his fat ass out of there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM

events so far

After 4 years of trying every legal civilized remedy in the book
it looks like the Democrats are going to have to resort to the extreme

strongly worded letter.


After 100 years (I knew my grandparents story) I know Americans very well. It has been a racist society for hundreds of years. Rightwing mobs, lynch mobs, murderous police mobs, racial town massacre mobs are excused and given a nod while the left is considered dangerous, communist, godless and nigger lovers.

This is who we have been. Sometimes you have to wait for the old bastards to die off but tribalism has deep roots. The new confederacy in all its manifestations is the old 'might makes right' barbarism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 02:59 PM

The last thing you need is a protracted show trial. Send him to Elba. Pool, pets, but no phone...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 03:16 PM

Yebbut he was never able so he could not say the palindrome


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM

So you are saying there is only one answer


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 03:54 PM

They can race through the impeachment process if they need to - we all know what is being discussed here. Up until yesterday the phone call to Georgia was an impeachable offence, but this one yesterday was on film and we can see the cause and effect - once he's out, the cowardly GOP members don't need to fear so much. Except their voters in their next elections.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 04:40 PM

That's Pelosi's plan. If they succeed it means he can never run for ANY office and the $ he has made for reelection will cease.
His legal exposure is to the states.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:51 PM

So, it seems the woman shot dead was a right wing military vet..

No surprise, then..

It's what we Brits have been lead to expect of the profile for trump militia activists...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:14 PM

You yanks have many a conundrum. Try to impeach him and fail: he wins in 2024, no sweat. Charge him with wotever: a long-winded and extremely damaging show trial that gives succour to his followers. Do nothing: he's a lethal pain in the arse forever. God knows, but, as you're yanks, you'll decide wrong, as ever. You'd all better start praying for his ill-health. Or wonder, in hope, whether Lee Harvey Oswald really did die...

There are terrible worries for the next 13 days. But there are terrible worries for many years to come. Half of your Republicans still want to overturn a free and fair election in which the winner got there by six million votes. But Trump's 70 million are not going anywhere anytime soon. If only you'd fixed your stupid electoral college before 2016. But isn't hindsight a wonderful thing...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:22 PM

I am purposely not going to try and remember the actual quote. It has to do with history repeating itself, (which it doesn't really do):

-History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce-

So what's occurring to me today it the storming of the Bastille versus what happened yesterday, which doesn't yet have a convenient label.

The storming of the Bastille probably had a lot of weapons drawn and led to the fall of the French monarchy.

Yesterday's affair led to the exposure of the extreme right wing Trumpistas as truly pathetic and sad.

Trump seems to have ultimately been a pot-stirrer but a rather directionless one, in that he is dedicated to no principle, just himself. As such he has not made anyone happy, just reinforced pre-existing discontent and prejudice.

Many of the talking heads have gone on about the unprecedented nature of this 'occupation' but I think other potential 'rhymes' might be when Andrew Jackson had an inaugural party where he opened the White House to the public
and they apparently trashed it. While there are some similiarities between Andrew Jackson and President Sierra Foxtrot Bravo, I think that at least Jackson had principles and showed signs of being a man prior to his election. This is not an endorsement of Jackson, I am in favor of dropping him from the currency.

Democracy is not for sissies, and is no guarantee of eternal success. Right now I'm thinking of Paul Simon's song: "American Tune".


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:31 PM

"Yesterday's affair led to the exposure of the extreme right wing Trumpistas as truly pathetic and sad."

Lament as much as you like, but he's still here, like a big cancer. As for not making anyone happy, after four years he got 70-odd million votes, more than most previous winners. Au contraire, he appears to have made unprecedented numbers of people happy. That's the big problem you'll be dealing with for many years to come, and you may not solve it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 08:16 PM

American Tune

Many's the time I've been mistaken
And many times confused
Yes, and I've often felt forsaken
And certainly misused
But I'm all right, I'm all right
I'm just weary to my bones
Still, you don't expect to be
Bright and bon vivant
So far away from home, so far away from home

And I don't know a soul who's not been battered
I don't have a friend who feels at ease
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered
or driven to its knees
But it's all right, it's all right
For we've lived so well so long
Still, when I think of the road we're traveling on
I wonder what's gone wrong
I can't help it, I wonder what's gone wrong

And I dreamed I was dying
I dreamed that my soul rose unexpectedly
And looking back down at me
Smiled reassuringly
And I dreamed I was flying
And high up above my eyes could clearly see
The Statue of Liberty
Sailing away to sea
And I dreamed I was flying

We come on the ship they call the Mayflower
We come on the ship that sailed the moon
We come in the age's most uncertain hour
and sing an American tune
But it's all right, it's all right
You can't be forever blessed
Still, tomorrow's going to be another working day
And I'm trying to get some rest
That's all, I'm trying to get some rest


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:54 PM

Lament as much as you like, but he's still here, like a big cancer. As for not making anyone happy, after four years he got 70-odd million votes, more than most previous winners. Au contraire, he appears to have made unprecedented numbers of people happy. That's the big problem you'll be dealing with for many years to come, and you may not solve it...

No, Steve, I don't think so. It looks like Pelosi is going to go for the jugular and they WILL take him out. It is imperative for the preservation of the government. If he is impeached he won't be able to run, end of story. Otherwise, with the threat that he might run again, he will have the lunatic fringe racing to be bizarre enough to catch his attention.

She's a very small woman, and she's elderly, but she's determined and a helluva lot smarter than Trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:55 PM

Betsy DeVos is gone, yay.

Lovely tune, that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:18 PM

trump's got to be so totally disgraced,
that he's left with no other option
but to beg to be allowed to move to N. Korea...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:23 PM

I am not disagreeing with the observation that Pelosi is a lot smarter than Trump. But Trump has lowered the bar for so many items that I think we should leave him out of comparisons and look for something a bit more objective.

There is so much outflow from this period: "stable genius" "alternative facts" that we're not even sure if this period is a swan song or a new lease on life or a remember the days.

Not to mention that yesterday's vile intrusion into the U.S. Capitol is part of the intro to brand new baby 2021.

How's the Brexit thread doing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM

Note to those who may not be aware: if Rump is impeached and CONVICTED, he cannot run again.

For awhile today I was almost certain that he will resign. After a couple of hours of contentment I retracted it, suddenly aware that only normal people would react that way. The Rump is not normal so he probably doesn't know that resigning is the decent thing to do.

A complicating factor is that the earlier he is no longer the president, the earlier he will face a myriad of other problems.

I still don't want him to kill himself, but, really, only because it would instantly make him a martyr.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:56 AM

Oh, I forgot to ask. Does anyone know more about the alleged offenses at other capitols? I haven't looked it up but last night Joy Reid mentioned that there were trumpies in evidence at the capitols of several other states.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:28 AM

Interesting article from the Wall Street Journal examining the question of impeachment, and recommending resignation.

I truly cannot understand anyone supporting the worst President in living memory who has trashed democracy and the Constitution, and turned the greatest nation on Earth into a laughing-stock in the way he has. It’s becoming very obvious that our local saying here is absolutely true - “You can’t educate pork”.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 04:14 AM

It appears that demonstrators appeared at at least five different capitals in various states. Mostly peaceable but there were a few instances of arrests for disorderly conduct..


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM

"If he is impeached he won't be able to run, end of story."

Not so. The end of the story would be the Senate trial after impeachment. Only if the impeachment leads to the trial stage may he be barred from future office (and that is at the discretion of the Senate in any case). You have just twelve days to go through all the stages in the impeachment-trial process. If by 20 Jan you haven't got that far, the trial in the Senate won't go ahead (whether that's the Constitution I don't know, but there are precedents). You can't remove someone from office who is no longer holding that office (as with Nixon, for example). A failed impeachment process would be grist to his mill. Invoking the 25th Amendment would be a way to prevent him from directly doing more damage between now and the 20th but it wouldn't stop him from running again in 2024. There is scope as I see it for a criminal trial, along the lines of incitement to riot or similar, but that is not clear-cut enough for a trial to be short and sharp. A dragging-on criminal trial would be a very bad thing for your country and would very likely foment disorder among Trump's millions of supporters. You could simply let the dust settle and hope that he becomes more and more marginalised in his growing derangement, but if that doesn't work and he continues to stir up trouble it would be difficult to resurrect the alternatives. In the days before mass communication, wasn't exile a wonderful idea! You have a big problem, potentially, and whether it materialises will depend on Donald being a good boy, or not, from now on. In other words, he's in control. One of the fruits of populism, innit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:56 AM

I think the best thing that Americans can pray for is that he pegs out before 2024. He’s morbidly obese, it’s a possibility.

I just read elsewhere an unconfirmed report that one of the deceased rioters had tasered himself - allegedly in the face. Please Dog, let it be true!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:57 AM

I read BWM's link to the WSJ after I typed that. The trouble is that he's done a complete volte-face this morning in a tactical move to distance himself from the riot that he himself incited, typical of the man. That will play well for him in any future hearing and will make impeachment attempts look like opportunism on the part of his opponents - they've already screwed up once - and I should think that even reluctant Republicans might still stand behind him. What a mess. I think that a resignation would be out of character but I hope I'm wrong. He's a very bad man but to label him stupid would be naive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:02 AM

"I just read elsewhere an unconfirmed report that one of the deceased rioters had tasered himself - allegedly in the face. Please Dog, let it be true!"

A bit reminiscent of today's story about the burglar who sat on his phone during the burglary and accidentally rang 999. The police responded accordingly, went round to the location of the burglary and caught two blokes red-handed...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM

Double Karma! <3


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:11 AM

Trump's political career is over after the events of Wed. and last week's phone call to Georgia, and his disgraceful non-response to the current pandemic, (4000 COVID deaths in the U.S. yesterday). In 2024 he'll be 78 and 4 more years into his obvious cognitive decline while the American electorate will become more diverse and younger in that time. His shortcomings as a kingmaker were also evident in the GOP failures in the Georgia runoffs. He may still have some juice and in some solid red districts but the majority of Republican candidates won't have much use for him, assuming he's still alive and out of jail.

Chao and DeVos resigned on principle but if they had any real principles they'd stick around and vote to invoke the 25th. As it is they're just rats exiting a sinking ship.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:12 AM

I could see that the Proud Boys were standing by to ignite violence but I did not know they had printed civil war II and rebellion T shirts for their Jan. 6 attack. I expected something but not the armed trashing of the Capitol.
A second person has died from their injuries after being bludgeoned by a fire extinguisher. He was a Capitol policeman.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:13 AM

Apparently, the burglar's phone call ran and ran, and the cops heard everything that was going on right up to the moment they arrived on the scene...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:15 AM

It's fine to surmise that his political career may be over, but you don't need a political career to do a lot of damage, and don't forget the 70-odd million people who voted for him. They won't all simply evaporate in a flash.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:25 AM

Unlike me, Mrs Backwoodsperson isn’t given to profanity but, on watching the riots unfold on TV and hearing the lunatic statements being made by some of the rioters - “This is the start of the Second Civil War”, “America wasn’t founded on democracy, it was founded on violent insurrection”, yadda yadda - she turned to me and said “The US is fucked for the next ten years at least”.

I think she has a point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:32 AM

It will certainly take awhile for the stench of trump to fade.

Josh Hawley bought himself a peck of trouble for supporting trump, the 2 largest newspapers in Missouri, his home state, have called for him to resign (the Kansas City Star declaring that he had blood on his hands after the events of Wed. afternoon) and Simon and Schuster cancelled his book deal. He's earned this, let's hope Cruz gets his just desserts as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:26 AM

Have a vomit receptacle close at hand for this one-

trump and family waiting to go onstage and foment mob violence-Queensland Times


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 09:00 AM

I got the chronology wrong, the video was shot after these "American Patriots" had addressed the mob and were watching the events unfold together on TV. None of these "American Patriots" actually had the cojones to accompany the mob they loosed on the Captiol.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 10:11 AM

gillymore, thanks for posting that article

Ive been following the current situation on 2 of Australia's largest news sites & hadn't seen it. According to Wikipedia Queensland Times is a small local paper (circulation under 15,000, 40km from the state capital) but it has that story.

did you notice the article was posted under the heading CRIME?

sandra


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM

That is entirely appropriate, a massive criminal investigation is being undertaken, arrests have been made and trump, his family and his sleazy henchmen may be facing sedition charges.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM

On the idea of "Exile"...

"Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp...

In January 2018, US President Donald Trump signed an executive order to keep the detention camp open indefinitely.
"

It would be good karma...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:07 AM

The Trumpites in January 2021 are certainly proving Samuel Johnson’s words in April 1775 about ‘Patriotism’ absolutely correct.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM

We should not give into the fear that impeaching, or any other means of removal, of Trump will give him more martyr or victim status to his crazy base.

Either way he will go away. As a martyr or as a pathetic selfish enemy of the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 12:55 PM

I can get behind that post, Donuel. Even if it won't yield a conviction congress has a constitutional duty to act and a moral one to put forth the message that no one is above the law.
Right, BW, and the scoundrels have been doing a lot of flag-waving (i.e. ass-covering) on social media since Wednesday afternoon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 12:56 PM

No point worrying about trump becoming a martyr,
when so many of his dangerously deranged acolytes
have already elevated him to the status of god and saviour...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 01:05 PM

Early Wednesday morning, prior to the Capitol violence, I woke up to a live youtube of Rudy Giuliani claiming that the just completed Georgia elections had been fraudulent, and with him was a "Professor" Eastman who acted as if he had facts (he hadn't) as to how the voting machines were rigged. You can still find this on youtube but I have not heard it in the news feeds as the later news of the day swamped it out.

Meanwhile Steven Colbert last night was pretty spot on. First was a report, presumably news-based, that the Turkish government had issued the kind of alert to their citizens in the U.S. that is usually given to Americans in third world countries. Then a mock shot of Kim Jong-Un telling his citizens to avoid the dangers of America. Colbert was taking the events seriously which you could see in his face, but the ridiculousness
of the domestic antagonists was highlighted. "I got maced because I was in the Capitol for the revolution!"

And now I hear that Trump says he will not attend the inauguration. History is being made, people!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 01:25 PM

I'm dizzy with so much truth here.
Lets getim, Impeachment will take away his ability to all campaign contributions,,,kick him in the wallet. -even if McConell sits on his hands and stalls, a new Comgress can proceed ex post facto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 01:30 PM

He will not be impeached even though he deserves it, wait and see


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 01:51 PM

I hate to keep saying it, but unless the impeachment process progresses to a Senate trial it would be no more than symbolic, and, crucially, wouldn't prevent him from standing again. You have 12 days and counting, which appears to mean that you haven't got much chance. He's played a very canny and very cynical game today. If it ever comes to a criminal trial, he now has all today's astonishing capers in his defence armoury.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:24 PM

correction = Crucially, Impeachment WOULD prevent him from 'standing' again.

Perhaps the ransacking of the capitol has not dawned on some people yet. Laptops were carried away as well as entire lecterns and documents. Somehow secret Democratic Senator offices were found on the third floor. I do not know the status of safes.
Some one had a Mauraders map.:^/ or informant?
The first target was the Senate chamber where the state ballots were.
Unless they have a ID card magnetic code our laptops can not be opened.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:25 PM

Can we at least hope for one of his own family getting too impatient to hear his will read..

Great advances have been made in the development of easily targeted hard to detect lethal nerve agents...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:26 PM

I suspect he is practicing pardoning himself in a mirror. Which is the best the stable genious can manage at self reflection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:29 PM

Are these your own zingers? They're great


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM

The Capitol police have few leads,the DMP have less, Homeland Security is stumped and the CIA NSA and MI are clueless so I'm going to call Lt. Joe Kenda Homicide Hunter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:27 PM

Actually authorities are identifying a lot of the rioters from the crowing they've done on social media. Arrests to follow. Some of those Id'ed have lost their jobs. We're talking about some real "stable geniuses" here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:37 PM

During the UK anti mask protests..
Organizers of the anti mask protests advised the mob
to wear masks whilst protesting against wearing masks...?????

Reasoning being to avoid identification by law enforcement...

Your yank far right crazies are obviously a lot stupider than ours...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 04:26 PM

Let's keep in mind that what started out looking like a namby-pamby assembly has resulted in two killings, two pipe bombs, some Molotov cocktails and three deaths from unknown causes.

One killing was the shooting of a woman breaking into the Speaker's Lobby, one killing was caused by striking a Capitol policemen in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Trump and Hawley have blood on their hands.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 04:47 PM

pfr:

I take pride in the craziness of our crazies versus your crazies. Your crazies wearing masks to protest having to wear masks shows a lack of appreciation of irony. Our crazies self identifying shows their fearlessness before the law. Or maybe a lack of appreciation of cause and effect. Some youngster is gonna get a Masters Degree writing this stuff up!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 05:27 PM

Sorry to have to keep blathering on in the face of obstinacy, but impeachment doesn't find anyone guilty of anything. It's what FOLLOWS the impeachment stage - the Senate trial - that can do that. And the whole impeachment process is generally used to try to remove someone from office, something that's happening imminently anyway. It is next to impossible for the process to advance to the Senate trial stage in Trump's case. There isn't time, and, even if there was, he could avoid it by resigning. If by some miracle the whole impeachment/Senate trial process can go the whole way, it could stop Trump from standing again in four years' time. Good luck with that. Otherwise, the impeachment would be symbolic and have no clout. The other alternative would be for a court to convict him of criminal offences and chuck him in jail. Wow, a martyr with 70 million supporters... I told you, he's a very bad man, but he isn't the fool you might take him to be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 05:40 PM

Steve, you will just have to wait and see like the rest of us. Yes, we know the stages of impeachment, we went through it last year, it's still fresh. Even though he wasn't found guilty by the cowardly GOP in the senate, he still was impeached.

This next one will be down and dirty, but there is a lot riding on it - those folks who want to run for president in four years - well, if Trump is still in the mix, they probably won't be able to, and they're minding the main chance. Maybe they'll finally throw Trump under the bus. If he is removed from office he can't run again. That would be a huge sigh of relief for a lot of people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 05:48 PM

He's either found guilty by a Senate trial (and the charges are - what??) or he's thrown in jail. Anything else you do, he can run again. Hope doesn't trump the facts, Maggie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:00 PM

Maggie, I guess we just have to wait and see. I read in a news article this morning that a decision can also be made after a conviction on the impeachment on whether Trump can run again for president. It's a separate decision to the impeachment decision:

"Impeachment in the House has to come first (via a simple majority). Then the Senate has to vote to convict (via a two-thirds majority). Then the Senate can decide to ban the president from running for office again (a separate vote to conviction, and also a two thirds majority). It has to happen in that order."

ABC News Australia blog

And I had a lovely image of that big yellow-haired Trump-baby balloon being thrown under a bus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:28 PM

Well that's right. It seems that articles of impeachment could be brought before the House by the middle of next week. That could be voted on quickly, and the process could be then taken to a Senate trial. I have no idea how quickly these things can be expedited in the US - but you will have one week from the vote in the House. One week, and he's going after that, at the latest, anyway. You have three hurdles: the timeline, the fact that he could scupper the whole thing by resigning (a good bet, I should say, if he sees the runes agin him), and the almost unassailable probability that the impeachers will not get the supermajority in the Senate. Another thing: the last impeachment, if anything, made him even more popular. And he has those seventy million behind him who are instantly going to see him as a martyr if you do anything precipitate. As I keep saying, good luck. And Maggie, I seriously want to be dead wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:50 PM

I note that Ms Pelosi would rather have Mike Pence invoke the 25th Amendment. Well that's very interesting. She's a politician to her boot heels. If she got her way, it would mean that a right-wIng Republican had taken ownership of the ridding of Trump. His supporters would not then be able to blame leftie/liberals/commies for his demise. So Pence won't do that. He may well have distanced himself from Trump to an extent, but he'll have an army of advisers telling him not to do that deed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:14 PM

best- resignation
good- 25th ammendment
fair- ex post facto impeachment comnviction in new Democratic Senate.
( he will suffer financially most with this )


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:27 PM

I don't know your constitutional nuances at all well, but I can't see there being much appetite, even if it were possible, for a "post facto" impeachment. And the Senate is hardly a massive Democratic Party bastion, is it, so a two-thirds supermajority to convict him is pie in the sky, frankly. If Pence invokes the 25th Amendment, I'll happily eat my hat. But if Trump sees the force to be not with him any more, he may resign. But you seriously don't think he wants to go without trace, do you. As I was saying to Maggie, days of hope can end in bitter tears. As I also said to Maggie, I desperately want to be as wrong as wrong can be. It's not just your country. It's the bloody planet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:44 PM

Steve, if he is found guilty and removed from office Trump cannot run again. That's the reason for a second impeachment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:22 PM

I read that Twitter have now blocked his account.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:24 PM

There is even a second route for the 25th ammendment that has never been used that bypasses Pense entirely and uses 8 MD's and reprsentatives of each party up to 17 members. It would be titled as a commission and not the cabinate.

Impeachment takes a minimum of 3 days.
Rats are leaving the ship even Lyndsy Graham who is now being called Donald Trump's 'fluffer' here in town. ( A fluffer is—or at least is said to be—someone on a pornographic film set that keeps a male performer's penis erect in between scenes.)
Hypocrites like Ted Cruz and others are in jeopardy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:31 PM

You can't remove him from office if he's not in office by natural means any more after the 20th. Fine, if you can get on with it before then. But removing him from office can be done only in one of two ways, via the 25th Amendment or via by conviction by the Senate after impeachment. The latter will not happen, Maggie. Even if it looks to Trump like it might, he will circumvent it by resigning. Please Lord, let me be wrong. We'll be having a very different conversation in a couple of weeks, but, in the meantime, don't underestimate Trump's potential for twists, turns, lies and trickery.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 09:27 PM

According to BBC news interview just before 2 am UK time..

There are serious concerns trump still has access to nuclear codes...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:19 PM

Yanks and Brits, this US/UK comparative video
shouldn't be a total waste of 15 mins of your time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIol-QKTW4c


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:44 PM

General Milley has been consulted regarding those nuclear codes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:48 PM

Reddit bans subreddit group "r/DonaldTrump"

    Reddit has banned the subreddit group "r/DonaldTrump," a spokesperson confirmed to Axios.

    Why it matters: While not an official group or page hosted by the president, it's one of the company's largest political communities dedicated to support for President Trump.

    What they're saying: "Reddit's site-wide policies prohibit content that promotes hate, or encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence against groups of people or individuals. In accordance with this, we have been proactively reaching out to moderators to remind them of our policies and to offer support or resources as needed," a spokesperson tells Axios.


Meanwhile, more rats are leaving that sinking ship. Trump must be awfully lonely in the White House. Hopefully he heads out to Mar A Lago before someone tells him he'll get attention if he burns the place down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:54 PM

And more:

The big picture: It's the latest in a string of platforms to take action against Trump's accounts following the historic pro-Trump riot at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

Twitch and Snapchat disabled Trump's accounts.

Shopify took down two online stores affiliated with the president.

Facebook and Instagram banned Trump from posting for at least the next two weeks, and faced calls to boot him permanently, including from former First Lady Michelle Obama and high-ranking Hill Democrats.

Twitter froze Trump out of his account Wednesday before reinstating him Thursday once he deleted problematic tweets. [He kept it up so now he's permanently blocked.]

YouTube says it's accelerating its enforcement of voter fraud claims against President Trump and others based on Wednesday's events.

TikTok is removing content violations and redirecting hashtags like #stormthecapitol and #patriotparty to its community guidelines.


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Subject: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:25 AM

Trump is threatening to start a rival social media channel to twitter , any suitable names for it? , perhaps Twatter, or Clap trap


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:38 AM

pfr that was an interesting video. I don't know enough of the British Constitution (unwritten) to judge the speaker's veracity and of course I don't have a personal take on Boris Johnson other than John Oliver's, but I'm always fascinated by Democracy in Olde Englande.

It did make me reflect on the fact that Donald Trump is probably in a state of terror right now. In less than two weeks he'll be stripped of his shell like a hermit crab yanked from its protection. He probably feels just that vulnerable.

So he IS pretty dangerous right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:45 AM

Up until a few minutes ago I had never heard of Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson.

This interview is one of the best I've watched regarding trump's impending demise,
from one of the most sensible US political commentators I've found so far...


"Trump’s Life About to Become "A Burning Hell" "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVTnC0Hky0&ab_channel=AmanpourandCompany


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:46 AM

YouTrumped...


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM

The TrumpDump!

Because you know.... It's Trump and a digital .... you know....


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:35 AM

Many of his followers are on Parler, and much of Wednesday's attack of the Capitol was planned there. Google Play dropped the Parler app on Friday, and Apple is expected to drop the app on Saturday.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:50 AM

Tantrump


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:46 AM

Twatter


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:51 AM

I read just now on the BBC news website that the earliest an article of impeachment could be put to the Senate would be on the 19th. The feeling is still that getting a Senate supermajority to convict him is almost inconceivable. It isn't clear either whether convicting him once he's left office on the 20th would be constitutionally sound...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:47 AM

Moscow Mitch put out a memo yesterday stating that the Senate, in the event of an impeachment, would not even begin prepping for a trial until the 19th, effectively saying no trial. But after impeachment his chamber could, but probably, vote to ban trump from seeking public office with a super majority vote without a trial. Even scum like trump deserves a fair hearing and shouldn't be railroaded into a hasty trial but he needs to be strongly repudiated after his shameful, seditious and undemocratic actions on Wednesday and on last week's Georgia phone call. Some times you've got to do the right thing even though it might not appear to be the smart or practical thing in order to get the message out there that no one is above the law. Thank goodness Pelosi and her caucus see it this way. Early next week the House will tie a bow around our worst presidency with a historic 2nd impeachment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:51 AM

2nd sentence should read-"But after impeachment his chamber could, but probably won't, vote to ban trump from seeking public office with a super majority vote without a trial. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM

That doesn't sound constitutional, but do correct me if I'm wrong...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:11 AM

If you're referring to the Senate's ability to prevent someone from running for office after impeachment, it's been done twice before in our history, both times with federal judges, I believe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:22 AM

Maybe we have our wires crossed. I know that he can be banned from office once the Senate finds him guilty via a supermajority (though I'm unclear about the constitutional position once he's left office on the 20th, and some of your constitutional lawyers are also unsure). I thought you meant that there could be the sort of fast-track that missed out steps...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:43 AM

The way I understand it is that the Senate, after an impeachment in the House, can vote to ban the impeached from seeking public office via a super majority vote without a trial or a conviction. I would be very much in favor of that though there's not much chance of it happening but trump's going to have legal problems in a number of venues that will probably keep him occupied until the grave, might even cause him to miss a few rounds of golf or an assignation with a porn star.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:18 AM

What makes everyone inciting the coup CRIMINALLY respondsible is an overarching legal term called MENS REA be it Trump or Rudy or Senators.
Since the basis for their actions are based on FRAUD (the election was rigged) there is criminal culpability of all its founders. If there was any possiility that the basis for their action was not fraud but a provable fact with evidence there would not be Mens Rea and there would not be criminal action at the foundation of all their words and behavior.
Well Steve knows more US law than most Americans. BUT There are more nooks and crannies in the Constitution than people think.
Mitch McConnell has decided to sit on his hands and leave it to the next Congress. Every thing I wrote is accurate. I won't repeat it.
I have some Constitutional awareness since my dad was a constitutional law professor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:26 AM

A simple 50/50 majority is needed to ban Trump from ever holding office. A 2/3 majority is needed for guilt


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:31 AM

Quite right, a simple majority is all it takes but I doubt Moscow Mitch would want Republican senators in swing states to have to vote on it. We'll have a real AG on the 20th instead of a trump bootlicker so let's hope the force of law hits him like a ton of bricks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:40 AM

It needs a proper lawyer to answer this, but it looks to me as if the simple majority to ban from future federal roles only applies after he has been convicted on the two-thirds majority. I could very easily be wrong there, but as an abstract principle the ban looks like a punishment and the 2/3 is about guilt. So having a punishment when a person is found not guilty sounds odd.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:53 AM

I think you're right DMcG, and I apologize if I've introduced misinformation here. It was not my intent to deceive any one.

From NYMag-
NY Mag

From the article-
"Indeed, Senate rules provide that such a ban may be enacted by a simple majority vote after two-thirds of the Senate has voted for conviction in an impeachment trial."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:03 AM

Its OK to guess, when it comes to cosmology I guess all the time.
When it comes to statutes and the Constitution not so much.
Its my wife who gets called to the Capitol to testify as part of her job. I just get to complain about the gubmint full time. I am not a lawyer so feel free to ignore everything I've said. I won't sue you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:20 AM

That NY mag article indicates that it may be possible to try an impeached trump in the senate even after he's left office.
At this point he's probably getting chapped lips from kissing Pence's ass in hopes of attaining a Nixon/Ford-like pardon, the same ass he was chewing on a few days ago for not conducting an unconstitutional activity on his behalf in the Senate Chamber.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:28 AM

"Its OK to guess, when it comes to cosmology I guess all the time.
When it comes to statutes and the Constitution not so much."
Let me point out that you also got it wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:40 AM

Lets look at the big picture. While Trump got 70 million votes fewer than 20 million will put their lives and family on the line to die for Trump. This constitutes an Army composed of Nazi, KKK spin offs and bible / gun nuts.

They are capable of a great deal of damage.
They won access to ransack the capitol but FAILED; to delay Biden vote, Hang Mike Pense, hold lawmakers hostage and murder the guilty by kangaroo court as similarly planned against the govenor of Michigan.

Next are the enablers; Murdoch, Zuckerberg, Trump, Republican Senators, Sinlair local radio and TV etc.



Am I saying anything new here" I don't think so. If you haven't opened your eyes yet they could be closed by violence.


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:43 AM

Tantrump gets my vote!


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:05 AM

BriteFart


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM

....also enabling trump seems to have been the evangelical christian churches. will they be able to change their tune? maybe accept a bit of humility? there should be a fair amount of cognitive dissonance going around - will it change much in the US? i really don't know whether we should be horrified or encouraged by recent events and what will happen next.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM

And where, pray, does that statistic come from?

I think that gillymor, DMcG and I are on the same page now apropos of the impeachment process requirements. The banning from future office-holding can only be brought about after a Senate trial and a supermajority vote. What still isn't clear to me is whether it would be constitutional to go ahead with the whole process, including the Senate trial, after he's left office. Another point is that it's important to not conflate what the Senate does and what the criminal justice system does: impeachment is not intended to lead to punishment, and it doesn't enjoy anything like the same due process requirements.

His resignation would be owned by him. Amendment 25 would be owned, probably, by Mike Pence. Impeachment, if successful and leading to a ban from future office, would be seen to be owned by the Democratic Party. I've put them in the order of desirability as I see it, from best to worst. If none of those things happens, and there ends up being a criminal trial, which would be protracted, I think your country would be in hot water for a very long time. He did get an awful lot of voters behind him, and martyrdom would likely follow... Be careful what you wish for, and be even more careful what you charge him with.

We could be in for quite an interesting few days.


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:46 AM

There are already existimg available platforms like News One and AHC. They call it the American Heros Channel but I call it the All Hitler Channel-they really do broadcast Hitler documentaries 24/7


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:58 AM

covfefemax

(whoops, I see you beat me to twatter, Sandman)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:41 AM

plus you have trump's malevolent arsehole son perpetuating the nutzi shit stirring...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:46 AM

I was raised by a scientist father who thought it important that I have a (mild) religious education.

Kind of like a vaccine. I grew to appreciate it when I was at school and the Campus Crusade for Christ came by. Having a background in the language and stories of religion has not only been useful but inspirational. But my version keeps me interested and with no feeling that I have all the answers. Indeed, my personal religion is to keep questioning, including questioning myself.

And so whether or not one believes in God, I think one of the great lessons of God is that whatever, whoever God is, it's NOT YOU.

This may be the flaw in Trump's personal makeup. And one of the things that makes him unsuitable to be a Commander in Chief. We all have delusions, if only the delusion that we have no delusions, but that one fatal flaw, to confuse oneself with divinity, does not end well. It's one of the reasons that Trump lets down EVERYONE who believes in him. Because the one being he can't conceive of letting down is himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM

A quick legal Q&A
Who is culpable? Mea Culpa
Who intended crime in their mind? Mens Rea.

Main Stream Media was an enabler imo in the failure to call White Supremacy a brewing evil in all of its excuses, goons, mobs, REAL AMERICANS and those who burned and rioted blaming it on a ethereal mass movement called antifa.

Some of the rioters and looters have practice in the field and consider themselves veteran soldiers. Stalin said when one person is murdered its a tradgedy but a million are a statisic. He also said how people vote doesn't matter, what matters is who counts votes.

Of 20% of Trump voters who will fight in place for their feurer the actual number will be much lower for those who will travel for engagement, so Inauguration day will have a few too many Nazi instigators.
I suspect they will keep their promise. This time we might listen and learn who the real enemy and 5th columnists are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:58 AM

robo i was 'inoculated' as well.














































i


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM

DonTrumpuel:

You are the only one I know who can oscillate and fibrillate at the same time!


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Subject: RE: BS: robo Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM

Mr. Red Hotcold You're such a titillating dear. My bet is that we are all unique desite the obvious similarities.
Left to simmer, there is enough deep seated skum to float to the top along with trump fat and then be spooned out of the pot.
It seems if one can predict events and later claim they were right they WIN the mudcat BS game. Meanwhile there are the sore losers.

I have this cartoon of Donald Jr leading the tip of the spear charge of a light brigade into the teeth of hundreds of tanks. Jr's caption "were havin fun huntin you down" caption for tanks "fire".


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:45 PM

Fox is doubling down in sarcastic tones referring to the "so called threats of violence" and gleefully attacking Geraldo Rivera for "repeating Democrat talking points". They are in NNM nazi normalization mode.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 01:54 PM

I watched the video of Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson and also this one on the same page.

Mary Trump Predicts A “Dangerous” Next Two Weeks Under the Trump Administration

Among other topics, Mary Trump mentions some of the many challenges Trump will probably be facing after he leaves office.

Also Mary Trump, a clinical psychologist, has evaluated DT and presents the case that DT ticks many of the boxes for sociopathy.

Personally, having worked with a number of people over the years who also appeared to exhibit sociopathic behaviours, I know that they can charm their friends and colleagues into believing all sorts of things. They do it with complete conviction because they believe themselves to be special, invincible, better than the rest of humanity, and entitled to do whatever they want regardless of the effect on others and with no apparent moral compass. When/if the scales fall from the eyes of their supporters it becomes very difficult for them to cope with the fact that the sociopath has used them, chewed them up and spit them out without a second glance as s/he goes on her/his merry way with the next target or project in sight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:18 PM

Speaking of relatives, Melania is a sharp cookie, knows what she wants and is the most staunch deal maker.
Remember when she refused to move down to the White House with trump in 2016. Until she got a favorable renegotiated pre nup she did not budge. She insisted on a child, her parents immigration and mo money.

I picture Don Jr. on horseback wielding a sword along with his cavalry on race horses, polo ponies and Buffalo hunters. Bill Barr is saddled on a mule and Eric is racing RC cars.

I have Rudy dressed like Napoleon and Ivanka is singing diamonds are a girl's best friend.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:00 PM

I'll just leaven the bread with this little aside, fretting not a jot about its appropriateness:

There is a plane carrying 5 passengers: Nicola Sturgeon, Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, the Pope and a 10-year-old school boy.

The plane begins to go down and is about to crash. There are only 4 parachutes on board.

Nicola Sturgeon says "I have to live, I have the Scottish independence to sort out," and takes a parachute and jumps.

The Pope says "I have to live, I have to sort out the Catholic Church," and takes a parachute and jumps.

Donald Trump says "I have to live, I'm the smartest man in America," and takes a parachute and jumps.

Boris Johnson looks at the 10-year-old school boy and says "You can have the last parachute. I'm a lot older than you and I've lived my life, yours has yet to begin."

The school boy says "Don't worry Mr Johnson. There's two parachutes left. The smartest man in America just took my school bag."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:03 PM

Yes, it is unfair, trumpists are giving n@zis a bad name...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM

Okay, dumb dumb joke time, and like Steve's, this is a reframed famous joke:

You are in a locked room with Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and Donald Trmp. Fortune has allocated you with a Colt 45 loaded with two bullets.

What do you do?













Shoot Donald twice, to be sure.

It's a JOKE!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:29 PM

HAHAHA And here comes Steve limping out onto the field in his too tight referee outfit and whistles my post dead and issues a red card for saying NAZI.

I'm watching video of your 'patriotic protestors' wearing Tee Shirts that say Camp Aushwitz work sets you free and grey shirts that say 6MENE. Translated it means Six Million Exterminated Not Enough.

I suppose Steve thinks a proper Nazi should have gone to finishing school with the Hitler Youth like the prior Pope.
I liked your joke.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM

Well I liked it 4 years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:55 PM

Robo, I would wait until they are standing next to each other like in the Red Dwarf despair squid episode.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:42 PM

It's time for trial by combat, Lets get ready to rumblllllllllllle. In this corner Ser Gregor Clegane at 385 lbs fighting in abesntia of Donald Trump and in this corner Joe Biden at 142 lbs. You can hear the wind of Ser Gregor's sword as it is swung in circles above his head.
Joe points a phaser at Gregor and vaporizes all but his sword saying "I believe in science". Cries of 'unfair' rigged and cheated can be heard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:17 PM

I'll try again. There are half a dozen posts in this thread just today which are likening Americans to Hitler/Nazis. This is neither sensible nor constructive, nor does it exactly make this forum look great. I tried to say this in a very brief post, but the Nazi allusions are still there yet my cavil was deleted. These references are lazy and throwaway, and while they may well justifiably be applied to a few ringleaders, they may not justifiably be applied to millions of people who are simply misguided Trump supporters. They are people who need to be won back in droves. There are far better ways of doing that than by name-calling and branding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:34 PM

There are at least 17 known Neo-Nazi organisations that are extant in US. it is dangerous to deny their existence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:38 PM

I'm not denying their existence and I'm not complacent. But I repeat: millions of people supported Trump, they are not by any means all Nazis (incidentally, please define...) and we need to win them back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:58 PM

If a certain type of person was called a n@zi 80 years ago,
and a very similar type of person could now be called a 'trumpzi'..

They are still the same kind of person...

They have existed under one name or another throughout the ages.....

Hopefully, for all our safety, a significant numbers of trump supporters are still salvageable...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:25 PM

My view has always been that the term Nazi should be applied, more or less exclusively, to the contemporary active supporters of the Hitler regime. There are plenty of dictators who have acted just like Nazis, and there are hopefuls in most western countries who would like to act like Nazis. But to chuck the term around lazily is to severely devalue the historical horror of the true Nazis in the thirties and forties. Here's a case in point: I severely dislike and condemn the Israeli regime for the inhuman, often murderous, way they discriminate against non-Jews in the West Bank and Gaza. But many's the time on this and on several other forums that I've bitten back against anyone on my side of this argument who calls the Israelis Nazis. Quite simply, they are not, and the insult is intended to remind them, as hurtfully as possible, what real Nazis did to the Jews and to somehow equate the regimes behaviour with that. That's just wicked. The other thing is that we can find different words. We are not inarticulate. Even "neo-Nazi" does at least make some distinction. Far right, white supremacists, stuff like that. All fine. I want Nazi to mean someone of a Hitler-supporting mindset that affords no compunction to that person when it comes to blind discrimination and unfettered, state-supported evil-doing. Let's not misuse and devalue the term on this forum is what I'm saying. In m'humble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:56 PM

Steve - I do tend to agree with you, and usually refer to the shittest human beings
as neo n@zis, or fascistic..

Though, trumpzis, and nutzis, and any other "....zis" folks can make up to take the piss out of the c@nts, is fair game...

.. c@ntzis...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:07 PM

I agree with that. The @ symbol is a wonderful way of not having to be literal in the lingo. And bugger me sideways with a bent banana if it isn't five past two and way past my bedtime...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:15 PM

well.. I not an expert, but I'm hoping the @ throws off search engines...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 PM

I keep reading, both here and elsewhere, that more than 70 million people voted for Trump. In fact, 70 million people voted against the Democratic party. Many of those would vote for a stick with rosette on it, so long as the the rosette was red and said Republican. As the sitting President, Trump got pretty much a free ride to the 2020 nomination. In 2016, it would appear that not everyone realised just how ridiculous he would turn out to be. If he tries again in 2024, Republican party members will know what to expect. Forewarned is forearmed. Trump is a spent force. I think we should be more worried about Donald Jr. or Ivanka stepping up to the plate, maybe not in 2024, but in years to come.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:54 PM

I have been very reticent about using the 'other' N word. For one thing, I think there IS a distinction to be made between the @zis of the 30s and 40s and the 'wanna-bes' of today. The majority of them in the far-right websites in America have no real idea of what the real ones were like. Take a look at "Garden of Beasts" for a mild reminder. And use of the term in this thread is more likely to remind us of a bad Seinfeld episode than to make a valid point about Trmp supporters.

For another thing, this ain't over. There ARE folks in the wings who do strive to be like the original. I've schlepped through D. Duke's "My Awakening" and it appeared to me to be long, repetitive, (unconvincing), but a genuine attempt to parallel "Mein Kampf" in an American environment.

And these people are distinct from Trmp and his kind. Indeed, Trmp overcame a great gulf since he has supposed Jewish in-laws and grandchildren. I think what may very well happen is that in the fallout from his failures, he will simply be re-labeled as a Jew himself.

Trmp has severe personality flaws and is despicable besides. And his great 'contribution' by which I mean damage is that he has been a diverter from what is really worth concentrating on in our national life. I don't think that is planned, just among the results of the effects of TMI on the world due to the nature of the data spigot of the social network combined with cult of celebrity. A sad revelation but we are subject to influences we have not learned to control.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 02:00 AM

I am not a Republican, but I'm human enough to want to know how Vice President Mike Pence is faring. Apparently he has gone into seclusion. In my opinion Pence has suffered something like being raped by a relative. Trump set a lawless mob upon him.

I've seen Trump's "incitement" speech and I've seen footage of the mob inside the Capitol. At first the people on the Capitol lawn seemed obnoxious but not dangerous. But the mob in the hallway where Ashli Babbitt was shot was vicious, lawless and looking for somebody to destroy. And the main person they were looking for was the person Trump pointed at - his Vice President, Mike Pence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 03:08 AM

The education system suits the present establishment , they do not want people to question, challenge or solve problems, yet many of our advances were made by challenging the system , an example Galileo, who met with great opposition from the Roman Catholic church. if people are not educated to challenge or question ,how can they discern truth from propoganda. Let us take Trump, Trump like most politicians is a puppet but he is a naughty puppet and a cunning operator, he has manipulated his supporters [ some of whom were shot] by posing as anti establishment, but does he have an ulterior motive is he [by getting his supporters to storm the capitol] warning the american establishment that if he is impeachd, he will expose other american politicians corruption. If people are not educated to challenge question and solve problems how can they discern or learn how to recognise hate speech and misinformation, If people are educated only in the style of Gradgrind[ Dickens Hard Times] of only facts they are ideal recipients for propaganda posing as facts


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 03:47 AM

[Being called N@zi] While they may well justifiably be applied to a few ringleaders, they may not justifiably be applied to millions of people who are simply misguided Trump supporters

The snag is, that was true in the 1930s as well. I have recently read "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933–45' which is largely based on interviews with 'ordinary' Germans, not military officers. Many could also be classed as 'simply misguided.'

However, I don't it too helpful to dwell on analogies from the past here: there are similarities and differences.

On the impeachment question: I think it important to consider the 2022 Senate elections as well. There are 20 Republican senators up for re-election, as well as 14 Democrat. By framing the impeachment as about the protecting the Constitution or Trump, it goes a long way towards forcing those 20 to declare themselves for the Constitution or for Trump, and either risks splitting their support, so helps the Democrats. Of course, these are politicians so avoiding such traps is something they are all experienced in. Nevertheless, the trap awaits.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 04:34 AM

It's gratifying to see a sensible and measured discussion emerging in this thread. I hope that we can keep it up.

To respond to DMcG, I agree with what you say when you compare the rise of the Nazis in the 30s with what went on last week (and its long build-up since 2016). But I do believe, despite the threat which I would not wish to understate, that there is still enough backbone in western democracies on both sides of the Atlantic to see off the kind of assault we saw last week. There was a severe fragility in German society at that time, in a country recently ravaged by a war that had decimated its young generation and left the country's economy and infrastructure in tatters, ripe conditions for a charismatic despot to hoodwink millions of people into believing in the false hope and nationalist exceptionalism he was peddling. We've seen echoes of some of that in Trump as he appealed to the "left behind" and in "make America great again." but the conditions in the country were nowhere near as conducive to his dream of takeover as they were for Hitler. I want to think that Trump's populist shenanigans will prove to be self-limiting and that there will be sufficient outrage and revulsion to prevent anyone like him from getting power again. That will take work in the form of serious public debate and self-examination - and education. I can't think of any American leader in my sentient lifetime that I've been even remotely a fan of, but we now need Joe to give us a few years of calm. And we need to think very carefully about the actions to be taken against Trump. We don't need a fallen hero, or a martyr, constantly stirring it in the background. I don't know what we can do about his dynasty, however. Americans do seem to love their dynasties...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM

Then there's the role of social media. There was a woman on Broadcasting House this morning who I think was saying that the two worlds of old, the social media world and the real world, have, worryingly, merged into one, and she was questioning the unfettered private-enterprise power of the massive social media companies. I didn't hear it properly as I was in the shower at the time, so I'll give it another listen later to make sure I didn't get what she saying arse about face... a bit like me in the shower did I hear you say...?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 07:52 AM

A rose is a rose...
I abbreviate the diverse coalition of trumpers as Nazis.
There are of course KKK spin offs, bible code thumpers, gun nuts (walnut, hazel and pea), militia wannabes, teenagers for the wall, Qanon psychotics, AM radio ss shock jock fans for Rush Limbaugh and others that are in the mob.
It would be better if they were not unified under one Trump 'banner'... Speaking of 'Bannon' he has more than Trump to add to the current state of affairs. If Karl Rove was Bush's brain then Steve Bannon is Trump's brain.

leenia is so right about Pense and the ultimate betrayal he must feel.

I would say more but I have to go save the world... :^/


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 08:04 AM

Oh well you can't save te world quickly, it will long hard work like what Mandella did for South Africa. That is still a work in progress but it started with a TRUTH Commission just to air what was happening from all perspectives.
The American Taliban aka Nazis aka Trumpers need to be invited to the table to talk instead of bomb. Yes the sanity challenged need to have leaders at the meetings with Biden.

Its your choice for    CHAOS   OR   COMMUNITY


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 08:47 AM

Dick, who are you quoting in your post of 03.08?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 08:58 AM

I am not quoting anyone why should I be?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:40 AM

Sandman I empathize with your idea about certain types of education shapes minds to be too prone for propoganda. A credo to think for yourself would be worthwhile. At the same time we have to climb upon the shoulders of giants who have developed great truths in order to keep growing.

I have said before, it is more innate for the human mind to be hypnotised than we would expect. Education of an open minded kind will suit us better for this age than the 19th century education that had to support mercantilism. (endless desks of accountants rather than one computer).

^Reality formation is a very plastic and maluable thing. This quality of the mind may have an advantage to the species or not but it has persisted. Knowing this truth is an antibody to the mallevolent abuse of our susceptability.^

I don't know if you have a mind set that hypnosis is a stage or parlor trick or if you understand clinical hypnosis fully.
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire if you know what I mean..
This has been my 20 year message and I'm sticking to it based on what I have seen in 20 years as a hypnotist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:49 AM

Perhaps it is easier for you or others to believe that citizens who feel like they have been cheated abd abused all their life by the powers that be, are most prone to be radicalized by propoganda. Its true but I say it goes deeper than that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:54 AM

A terrible way of saying it would be "Psychology trumps philosophy"


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 10:37 AM

I flipped on Fox for a couple minutes. Apparently, the media crack-down on Trump is because radical Democrat (which is all of them, if you listen) are trying to shut down free speech.

This is always what those people who want to incite violence say. "WAAAA - they won't let us tell people to kill those we don't agree with -WAAAAAH!" They were saying this sort of thing happens in "communist China".

Well, sort of. The leader of the country demands loyalists murder enemies of the state. THAT'S what usually happens.

Personally, I wouldn't mind the FBI checking out Fox, but that probably WOULD be a violation of free speech.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 10:47 AM

I also decided to live dangerously and looked in on the Twitter feed of an acquaintance who (alas) was a Trump supporter (I haven't asked lately if he makes a distinction between the GOP and Trump's brand of the party). At any rate, one of his favorite commentators suggested that the horror of having the House, the Senate, and the White House all in Democratic hands for the next two years is unprecedented. Except it isn't. The last time it happened was the first two years of the Obama administration, at which time his work was slowed almost to a stop by the infamous "blue dog Democrats," those Democrats from traditionally GOP states who were so afraid of losing their jobs that they couldn't support the party. After two years the GOP won enough seats to take over leadership in the house and they did the dirty work of opposing the first African American president.

I think the Democrats are in less turmoil amongst themselves right now, but we shall see. They don't have much wiggle room for dissent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 11:53 AM

Trump is fortunate. He should count his blessings no matter how few there are. I know those pesky branchs of government like Congress and the Supream Court, Trump could do without, but if he indeed had the kind of government like his pal/lover in Russia and North Korea, he would have been dealt with far more harshly and secretly than back here in the ol US of A.

Let Trump be Trump
in the ash heap of history.
He is not worthy to be
king of the rats

The rat stampede wants safe passage. Individual rats claim "that was then this is now', I didn't know, He must have changed, I didn't see it coming but I wouldn't change a thing, Let my constituancy decide if I did right, I was just following orders-I mean protocol, I aws following FOX.
   
In law there is a measure of a man called the reasonable man. In short if an uneducated impoverished man does the same crime as a well privildged person, the harvard educated person is in a sense more guilty. The "reasonable man" has other meanings as well.


a correction: the other 25th 'like' ammendment for president removal is in the 14th ammendment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM

Maggie, they may be forced to talk to each other and compromise. I'd rather they didn't have to, but I don't think it'll be a bad thing. As long as McConnell, and his "we're not going to do our jobs - or anything much at all" - crew are out of power.

I do remember when Democrats COULD have gotten things done, but were too busy fighting amongst themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 12:08 PM

13% of Republicans polled said Trump should be removed
94% Democrats said Trump should be removed


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 01:42 PM

Many republicans are not identifying as such is my conclusion


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 02:43 PM

What's all this last minute dangerous secret mission bollocks then...??????????

LINDELL: TRUMP will be PRESIDENT!


I haven't a clue who these trumpzis are, but wtf...!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:02 PM

For years the radical right has said The Democrat's Hair is on Fire.
It looks like the D's are rather calm and contemplative and the right is litterally out of their #$!~%*NG minds.

pfr, Mike Lindell is a pillow salesman who with Trump's help tried to sell oleandrin, a toxic poison, as a cure for Covid 19.
To be fair oleandrin is safer than bleach.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:19 PM

OMG, oleandrin??!! Everyone in Oz knows that the oleander tree is toxic. No right minded Australian would touch that with a ten foot pole.

I thought I had heard everything, but that really tops the lot.

Oleander, very pretty and the oleander flower is sweet, but the leaves (and all the rest) of the oleander are impossible to eat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:57 PM

Oleander is a beautiful shrub or small tree that, to me, is the signature plant of the Mediterranean. Like many plants it's poisonous in all its parts. Same can be said about foxgloves, yew, poinsettia, arum lilies, daffodil bulbs, thorn apples, Daphne mezereon, potato leaves and fruits and a host of others. The thing most of them have in common is that you're hardly tempted to eat them. Enjoy them and keep your kids away if it worries you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 06:20 PM

A person selling oleandrin as a cure can only be a person who has no concern for the sanctity of human life. IMHO.

Oleandrin is a toxic cardiac glycoside found in the poisonous plant, oleander (Nerium oleander L.).[1] As a main phytochemical of oleander, oleandrin is associated with the toxicity of oleander sap, and has similar properties to digoxin.[1]

Oleander has been used in traditional medicine for its presumed therapeutic purposes, such as for treating cardiac insufficiency. There is no clinical evidence that oleander or its constituents, including oleandrin, are safe or effective. Oleandrin is not approved by regulatory agencies as a prescription drug or dietary supplement.[1]

.....

Toxicity

Oleandrin has been reported to be lethal.[1] In one fatality, the blood concentration of oleandrin and a related cardiac glycoside from the oleander plant was estimated at 20 ng/ml.[9] In practice, there have been adult cases wherein 14-20 oleander leaves (of unknown oleandrin concentration) proved not to be fatal, but also a lethal case of a child that consumed only one leaf.[10]


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 06:49 PM

Police Use of Clearview AI's Facial Recognition Tech Spiked After Capitol Raid

    First reported by the New York Times, Clearview AI CEO Hoan Ton-That confirmed to Gizmodo that the app saw a 26% jump in search volume on Jan. 7 compared to its usual weekday averages. Given the aforementioned treasure trove of potential evidence documenting the attack—from live cable news broadcasts to hundreds of images and videos—the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Washington, D.C. police have called for the public’s help in identifying participants. Roughly 2,400 polices agencies nationwide have contracts to use Clearview’s facial recognition software, according to the company, and several of them have reportedly been turning to it to assist federal investigators.

    Detectives at the Miami Police Department are using Clearview’s tech to identify rioters in images and videos of the attack and forwarding suspect leads to the FBI, per the Times. Earlier this week, the Wall Street Journal reported that an Alabama police department was also employing Clearview’s tech to ID faces in footage and sending potential matches along to federal investigators.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 07:46 PM

I have two oleanders, both in big pots and both spending the winter in my greenhouse (they'd be killed by the cold otherwise). I can make them flower if I put them in my sunshiny porch in summer. I also have two lantana bushes, another plant that you see all over the Med. They are also poisonous in all their parts. They have to tough out the winter in a sheltered outdoor spot by my front door. I love the Mediterranean and I love to have plants that remind me of my sunny holidays in Spain, Italy and Greece. To date, I'm not aware that anyone has nibbled them or tried to distil out the toxins. Foxgloves grow wild in my garden. I probably cultivate enough digoxin to kill half of Bude, but the bees love the flowers so much that I don't think I'll bother.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:07 PM

Useless fact number seventy-twelve: When I was a student I hired out to be a gardener/ landscaper. One of my early jobs was to clear out a hill of oleander and plant it with hypericum. I did not know at the time that the one was poisonous and the other was St. John's Wort. Did get to see hummingbirds mating....I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:16 PM

Yebbut it almost certainly wasn't THAT St John's wort. It's a big genus is Hypericum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 11:39 PM

Be nice, limeway, I almost lost my gummint this week!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 12:47 AM

This story of the January 6 seditious attack on the Capitol is still expanding. This new congress member was live-tweeting the location of Nancy Pelosi while the events were happening.

QAnon congresswoman faces calls for arrest after live-tweeting Nancy Pelosi's location to rioters

    Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO), a gun-toting supporter of the QAnon movement, is facing backlash after she was accused of live-tweeting House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's (D-CA) location during the attack on Capitol Hill last week.

    Boebert shared the tweet soon after President Donald Trump's supporters stormed the Capitol with deadly results.

    "The Speaker has been removed from the chambers," Boebert wrote.

    Twitter users responded by calling for the freshman representative to be jailed and removed from Congress.

    "@FBIWFO please arrest @laurenboabert for aiding and abetting those who were hunting down @SpeakerPelosi on Jan, 6th by tweeting the Speaker's whereabouts," one person responded. "She's 5ft tall, 100 pounds and carries a Glock (and won't stop telling everyone)."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 06:39 AM

Conservative Republican Sen. Ben Sasse on Trump's delight in the violence- Huffington Post


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 08:30 AM

Video of entrance tunnel to the Capitol during the riot

That's the kind of newsgathering I can respect. The photographer worked his way through the crowd right up to the police line. Punctures a few myths:

- there was nothing very odd about the crowd. They weren't inbred freaks, they were normal-looking guys.

- they weren't acting particularly crazy. Very loud but NOWHERE NEAR what you'd see on an average Orange Walk in Glasgow. Nobody shouting violent threats or obscenities.

- with one exception: the group (acting as a coherent unit) who tried rhythmic pushing to use the people in front as a battering ram. They could have caused a Hillsborough-scale catastrophe. What did they think they were going to do, walk in over a carpet of their own side's bodies?

- almost everyone in the crowd must have owned a gun; nobody showed one. Dog in the night time stuff: they had this planned and universally agreed in advance.

One thing that video DOES confirm is how ineffectual the police were. Many different tactics could have stopped the rioters dead - a testudo of shields, tear gas, water cannon, stun grenades. Horatio on the bridge or the 300 Spartans could have done it. The fact that they didn't even try really stinks of collusion (and willingness to sacrifice the officers who got stationed in the front line: you see one of them suffering horribly).


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:03 AM

I've seen video over and over again of a small force of Capitol Police trying to hold off the large mob in the Capitol bldg. and one of them was murdered in the endeavor so I can't get on board with a blanket condemnation of their performance. There were some bad actors among them and that is being investigated. The FBI warned the CP of the possibility of violence at the demonstration but did little to prevent it. It is their job, the FBI, to deal with threats of domestic terrorism and they came up woefully short in that department. There's plenty of blame to go around and no doubt some will find it's way to the White House for failing to act until things were too far along.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: HuwG
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:04 AM

As an aside, I read that the Capitol rioter seen walking off with the Speaker's lectern is to be tried in Florida.

I'd love to be the judge who asks "Will your client be taking the stand?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:14 AM

lol


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:15 AM

The vanguard of rioting men in body armor and kevlar helmets that quickly reached the Senate chamber with tie hand cuffs are not in that video. Yes some people look normal normaly Jack.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:21 AM

Trump loses PGA championship

Ouch! Poor baby.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:37 AM

Parler, Facehook, twitter and many private companies are leaving the conspiracy ship but Fox news is doubling down that violent left wingers are killing free speech.
I know free speech does not apply to private business but they are pretending to not know the difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 10:05 AM

The trump militia rioters I've seen interviewed on BBC news and youtube
do not appear to be all moronic rednecks,
but fairly well educated and articulate..

That should be more worrying...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 02:11 PM

You would be surprised what repitition reinforcement can do to perfectly normal people. I am not surprised or worried. Many people will get their fix from other media and will abbandon the search or risk radicalization leading to paranoid schizoprenia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 06:52 PM

News Flash- Mexico has agreed to pay for the wall and now Canada wants one too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 08:08 PM

LOL gilly. I was thinking about the one that might go up around the Capitol!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 08:29 PM

Arnie terminates the proud boys and trump...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck&t=4s&ab_channel=ArnoldSchwarzenegger


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 10:04 PM

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has ruled out Trump's plan to go golfing in Scotland at the time of the inauguration because a trip into Scotland for golf would not be considered "essential travel" during the pandemic.

Bam! There goes a clever plan, right out the window!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 10:39 PM

.. emerging internet rumours..

trump hired mercenaries to lead the revolutionary storming of democratic govt offices...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 04:10 AM

Even if Donald is removed, that may not be the end of it. I have just seen a video on the Independent's website of Donald Trump junior before the march on the Capitol on Wednesday, saying he was sending:

"a message to all the Republicans who have not been willing to actually fight ... This gathering should send a message to them; this isn't their Republican Party anymore, this is Donald Trump's Republican party."

That sounds to me as if he was encouraging the marchers to "actually fight". And I note that he said it was Donald Trump's party - he didn't say it was Donald J. Trump's party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, §?1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, §?330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 06:59 AM

New England Patriots head coach Bill Bellichick refused the Medal of Freedom from trump with an eloquent statement. Pardon my cynicism but the old coach would have lost his locker room if he'd accepted. Besides, trump has obviously cheapened the award when you consider recent recipients, lackeys Devin Nunez and Jim Jordan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:00 AM

a minor note in these days of irony:
It strikes me funny that Tik Tok banned the president before the president could ban Tik Tok.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

With all this banishment from social media platforms he's no doubt building up a lot of stifled crazy that's sure to burst forth in some manner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:14 AM

True but exposure to the truth is also more likely to happen in a vacume of the crazy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 08:02 AM

Reality is glorius and awful but populist fake reality is worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:15 AM

Interesting article here, copied from a live feed. I don't know how widely it is being discussed.

John Nichols writes for the Nation on how a 14th Amendment strategy could bar Trump from ever holding office again.

To imagine that Trump will fade away after January 20 requires the denial of everything Americans know about the president’s massive ego, his aversion to being seen as a loser, and his determination to avenge his defeat in the 2020 election.

Added to the Constitution after the Civil War, the 14th Amendment is a blunt instrument, which mandates in its third section: “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who … shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.”

Section 5 of the amendment declares, “The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”

This is why focusing on the 14th Amendment is relevant. As Pulitzer Prize–winning historian Eric Foner reminds us, the House and Senate House could, with a simple majority vote, censure Trump for inciting insurrection and, with the approval of a President Joe Biden, effectively bar Trump from running again for the presidency.

“This can be invoked against anyone who has ever taken an oath to support the Constitution, including the president,” Foner says of the 14th Amendment. “It’s much simpler than impeachment. It is not a judicial proceeding. It’s a political proceeding. It doesn’t involve lawyers or trials. It is simply about qualification for office. You could have one afternoon of debate and a vote.”

Read more details here: The Nation – How a 14th Amendment strategy could bar Trump from ever holding office again


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM

An article regarding section 3 of the 14th amendment by Bruce Ackerman also appeared in the Washington Post this morning.
WaPo
It sounds like a good alternative to Impeachment but there needs to be a thorough investigation into all the wrongdoing of the current administration by Congress and all relevant agencies or we risk seeing another would-be strongman attempt to overthrow our government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 10:49 AM

As discussed earlier, the 14th has never been used.
It was created as a response to the civil war ending.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 11:57 AM

Doesn't mean it can't be used now .......... does it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM

The drafters of the constitution never foresaw semi auto machine guns either,
but it don't stop amendments being cynically manipulated and distorted to suit partisan 21st century agendas...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 01:38 PM

Trmp has served, is serving, a larger purpose in the same way that America has in the past actually turned sh$t into shinola.

It is not Trmp's fault that he was elected. It is our fault. He was elected by the Constitutional regulations that established the electoral college system. And his folks made the rational argument that that is exactly what they worked for, if a majority vote was required, that would have been their strategy. Instead they worked the political border states which the Democrats assumed was part of their 'blue wall'. They exploited weakness in a perfectly legitimate way according to the Constitution.

You can say with truth that Trmp has been a fault detector. And we got it when we needed it. It is our job to recognize it as such and use what we've learned to fix our system and protect us for the time when the enemies of democracy will be, for want of a better word, competent.

Getting rid of Trmp is not fixing the system, merely getting rid of the stain showing where the disease is in the cells, the hiss of the pressure showing the leak in the tire, that stain you can put on your teeth to show where your brush does not get at the plaque. It is a kind of gift you get that you don't want, but if you work it, it will save you.

There's work to do, a lot of work to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 01:53 PM

Interesting comment, robomatic. I did wonder if there might be a new Ammendment to try to limit some of the extremes we have seen. But I can't see what the draft would be. Nor can I see enough states voting for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 04:23 PM

"Getting rid of Trmp is not fixing the system, merely getting rid of the stain showing where the disease is in the cells, the hiss of the pressure showing the leak in the tire"
- nice.



"Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in and blood from their BLM and Panifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent, stop calling this a march or a rally or a protest. Get ready for war."
- not nice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 04:30 PM

.. apparently we've got it all wrong.. silly us..

trumpzis have obtained absolute indisputable truth
it was antifa to blame,
leading the riot disguised as law abiding trump supporters..

.. trump is innocent...!!!

got it...???

ok...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 04:37 PM

I have smelled pungent blood but thankfully I have never heard blood.

The nazi group even had written rules of engagement as to when to shoot or not.

Last I looked there are 122 Congress people holdng firm onto Trump racism and by association sedition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 06:01 PM

Yeah, the extremists are still extreme, now with St. girl-who-got-shot.

The RushLimbows are doubling down. They are blaming the victim playing the "whatabout" game and projecting their motivations and emotions onto their opponents.

Really depressing was watching the Sunday talking heads shows interviewing former Trump chief of staff Mick Mulvaney and he was saying how when he was in the White House Trump was reasonable, just 'don't know what happened since I left'... This was unbelievable and reprehensible.

As I'm typing this NPR is going into a special report on the House of Representatives' resolution to issue the second impeachment of Trmp. 1800 Hours East Coast U.S. time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:16 PM

To to perfectly clear robo is a good man. Contentious but good.

I had a dream that when I woke up I saw Lawrence Fishburn and others standing over me. I was presented with 2 capsules, one red and one blue. Since I always pick the red candy I took the Red one. After some surreal gyrations I found myself with a socket in the back of my neck and enraged that the honorable Donald J Trump had his election stolen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:31 PM

When I actually woke up I had a lingering feeling that as far as Trump is concerned, in his mind what happaned at the capitol was a peaceful transition of power. He was just getting even.
It coulda been worse despite the lingering seditionists


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:37 PM

It doesn't seem to be on any of the news networks but I have the Washington Post website up and they're broadcasting it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:46 PM

broadcasting what?

Anyway I discovred that the TV was on as I slept and republicans were all jusifying the republican party and themselves as they said they would not go quietly into the night but Democrats should Christian forgive and forget, turn the page, let trump be trump, may old acquaintence be forgot and let bygones be bygones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:56 PM

I'm watching the vote now. The Repubs voting NAY did so in a hurry. The Democrats are voting slowly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 08:39 PM

Without SNL (Saturday Night Live) and Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, currently on hiatus until February, my go-to television synopsis guy is Steven Colbert. So far he has never been less than appropriate. A couple nights ago he was inspired. If I remember his short pungent take on the Capitol uprising it was:

Old Man 2020: "I'm the worst year ever!"

Young Man 2021: "Hold My Beer!"

Is there current Spitting Image on the east side of the pond?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 08:48 PM

The vote that Donuel's talking about is a vote to invoke the 25th amendment, which Congress doesn't have a tiny little thing to do with.

Just for show. Just to make sure everybody divides up properly, according to party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:02 PM

The paint has dried but the vote goes on, yawn.

The vote goes on
and the vote goes on
beating all the
bone heads in the brain

If you're nazi and you're fired slap your face
If you're nazi and you're fired slap your face
If you're spotted in the mob and you lose your fucking job
If you're nazi and you're fired you're disgraced


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:19 PM

Christ on a bike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:45 PM

Steve, it's less frustrating to just step around it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:50 PM

So
stepping carefully around the manic puddle
there are something like five Republicans who say they'll vote to impeach. There is a possibility McConnell may be among them. I hope he DOES vote for impeachment, but it doesn't change my opinion of him. I think he just looks for what will benefit him, and couldn't care less about the public.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM

But if McConnell DOES vote for impeachment, he will draw unknown numbers of GOP senators with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 05:35 AM

A vote to impeach is a foregone conclusion. A vote to convict in the Senate is a whole nother thing, though I hear that a few Republican senators are thinking of jumping ship...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 06:46 AM

There are 20 Republican Senators whose term comes to an end in 2022, so they will be campaigning in 2021, I expect. I would not like to predict how they would vote, but I will predict they will think about that very carefully.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 07:29 AM

Impeachment is certain and with McConnell changing his mind, conviction is more likely. The crime is sedition. The real crime is murder - the murder of truth in america.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 07:48 AM

Democrats could become more radicalized in response to the capitol attack response. I hear more of them asking why the capitol police did not shoot more rioters dead. That kind of talk does not help.
Don't take the civil war bait.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:22 AM

alternatives for the Trump lies


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:26 AM

Moscow Mitch seems to be supporting impeachment which would make a conviction much more likely.

YouTube suspends trump's account joining all his other major social media platforms.

NYT reports trump told Pence that he would be considered a pussy if he didn't violate the Constitution.

The old bastard is careening down the slope in a flaming toboggan, it's about time. Pass the popcorn.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:35 AM

Some of the same GOP congressman who tried to disenfranchise millions of voters on Jan. 6 are condemning a 2nd impeachment on the grounds that it would cause disunity. Mind boggling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:49 AM

I found yesterday's letter from the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the troops comforting:

MEMORANDUM FOR THE JOINT FORCE
SUBJECT: MESSAGE TO THE JOINT FORCE

The American people have trusted the Armed Forces of the United States to protect them and our Constitution for almost 250 years. As we have done throughout our history, the U.S. military will obey lawful orders from civilian leadership, support civil authorities to protect lives and property, ensure public safety in accordance with the law, and remain fully committed to protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

The violent riot in Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021 was a direct assault on the U.S. Congress, the Capitol building, and our Constitutional process. We mourn the deaths of the two Capitol policemen and others connected to these unprecedented events.

We witnessed actions inside the Capitol building that were inconsistent with the rule of law. The rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence, sedition and insurrection.

As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law.

On January 20, 2021, in accordance with the Constitution, confirmed by the states and the courts, and certified by Congress, President-elect Biden will be inaugurated and will become our 46th Commander in Chief.

To our men and women deployed and at home, safeguarding our country-stay ready, keep your eyes on the horizon, and remain focused on the mission. We honor your continued service in defense of every American.

[signed]

Mark A. Milley
General, U.S. Army
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

John E. Hyten
General, U.S. Air Force
Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

James C. McConville
General, U.S. Army
Chief of Staff of the Army

David H. Berger
General, U.S. Marine Corps
Commandant of the Marine Corps

Michael M. Gilday
Admiral, U.S. Navy
Chief of Naval Operations

Charles Q. Brown, Jr.
General, U.S. Air Force
Chief of Staff of the Air Force

John W. Raymond
General, U.S. Space Force
Chief of Space Operations

Daniel R. Hokanson
General, U.S. Army
Chief of the National Guard Bureau


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:13 AM

Flaming tobogin Ha
The wall st journal and McConnll agree trump is impeachable

BEHIND BLUE EYES
No one knows what it's like
To be the bad man
To be the mad man
Behind trump eyes
And no one knows what it's like
To be hated
To be fated to telling only lies
But my dreams they aren't as empty
As my golf course seems to be
I have hours, only lonely
My love is vengeance
That's never free
No one knows what its like
To feel these feelings
Like I do
And I blame you
No one bites back as hard
On their anger
None of my pain and woe
Can show through
But my dreams they aren't as empty
As my hotels seem to be
I have hours, only lonely
My love is vengeance
That's never free
No one knows what its like
To be mistreated, to be defeated
Behind blue eyes
An no…


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 10:16 AM

gilly the memoradum is much likeGen Washington's Newburgh address


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Subject: BS: Ban Donald Trump!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 11:00 AM

If Trump can be banned by Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and most recently Grindr - what is Mudcat waiting for? This is obviously the current big thing in social media.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ban Donald Trump!
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM

Oh I don't know Jack, it could be quite amusing to see him tussle with some of the sharp minds on here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 02:12 PM

Jack, jackie, jackums, if you tell mr. trump about a Smithsonsonian saved website like mudcat for which Donald can leave his leavings you are meaner than I thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 03:32 PM

Everyone is bailing on Trump now. He's no good to anyone with his seditious cooties.

America's oldest conservative magazine comes out in favor of Trump's impeachment

"In an opinion piece published by The National Review this Wednesday, The Editors of the nation's oldest conservative magazine declared that there is "no doubt that Donald Trump has committed an impeachable offense."

The op-ed stressed that President Trump "urged a crowd to march on the U.S. Capitol and pressure his vice president and Congress to abuse their authority" to overturn a free and fair election that Joe Biden clearly won.

As the mob breached the Capitol, Trump failed to forthrightly tell the rioters to stop, The Editors write, and the violence that ensued was the culmination of Trump's "ceaseless campaign of misinformation meant to delegitimize an American election.""

The rest is at the link.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 04:22 PM

Without an internet platform for Trump to excoriate and deamonize republicans who betray Trump loyalty I predict more than 8 Republicans will see that acts like defecating in the capitol to killing a police officer is the result of Donald's wild mob incitement for months.

Hearing the loyalists 'paraphrase' the incitement speech was hilarious.
"sallyforth good people with love in your heart to the capitol and with boo or yay voice your approval or..." :^}


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:04 PM

inside job


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:34 PM

Representative Pressley's panic button ripped out ahead of blast. Sounds like an inside job, planned ahead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:38 PM

I can't believe nobody posted that he was impeached for a second time. (Or maybe it was in a different thread?) Ten Republicans voted in favor of impeaching.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:53 PM

SRS, between the cops not doing their job, even helping the mob, and the Repubs taking them on tours and showing the creeps where to find offices, there needs to be a major investigation, and prosecution. Also, every one of those people who objected to the democratic election process should be removed from Congress.

Well. that's my opining for the night.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:57 PM

Jeri it was such a forgone conclusion why bother.

Stilly great minds think alike. ;^/ 3 Congress people are reported to have given tours and instructions to insurgents inside the capitol against rules on Jan.5


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 10:04 PM

I don't think the Brits here understand the climate here. If you're a Democrat on the hill, death threats means its wednesday. This is new to Republicans now and are acting out of fear for their families and themselves. Intimidation is a norm in the Trump climate change of fear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 10:40 PM

I think a single Question Time would make the average American leader pull his own 'ead off rather than see Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:39 AM

I admit I don't fully understand the consequences of being impeached. There is the Senate trial - at some time - which might find him guilty of incitement to sedition. As far as I can tell, that would carry a penalty of up to 20 years imprisonment in normal circumstances if passed in an ordinary court. But all it seems to do in this case is allow further votes on actions like barring from standing again, and the Senate could, in principle, decide not to do that. It does not seem to carry a penalty in its own right.

We had something similar in the UK. Dominic Cummings was found to be in contempt of Parliament. His response was to shrug and say so what? That looks very close to the US position.

Does found being guilty as charged by the Senate carry a penalty in itself?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:38 AM

Impeachment is a separate matter from due process of the law of the land, the latter being the way to get him in jail, as with any other citizen. A Senate trial after impeachment is different. If Trump is convicted there, it wouldn't be seen as a punishment, though obviously his reputation would be completely shot. More importantly, the Senate would then have the power to bar him from future office. Of course, conviction by the Senate after impeachment wouldn't preclude him from facing criminal charges. Whether what would probably be a protracted and very public criminal show trial would be in the country's best interests is a moot point, in m'humble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:45 AM

conviction by the Senate after impeachment wouldn't preclude him from facing criminal charges

You may well be right, but I would not be surprised to hear cries of 'double jeopardy' from his lawyers.

Let's leave Trump out of this as a specific, and consider what 'a President' might do.   You can imagine two extremes: something extremely serious, like personally burning down the House, and the minimum that might be a successful impeachment, say misuse of the Presidential Seal.

If looks to me as if the range of actions available to the Senate after a conviction are the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:02 AM

.......... pull his own 'ead off rather than see Doug.


???

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:12 AM

Your hard man reputation clearly goes before you, Doug! :-)

The double jeopardy argument doesn't wash. That would apply only to due process of law, which the impeachment process ain't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:43 AM

DMcG In a nutshell https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/impeachment


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:52 AM

Thanks for that, Donuel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:02 AM

A Pardon after a guilty verdict is a different can of worms, and would President Pense then be willing to do so? The federal 'punishment' is removal from office.
A guilty Trump then becomes game for any State prosecution.
Civil Courts csn fine or jail.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:14 AM

It can't just end at trump.
His son, and close allies and enablers, must also somehow face justice.
At the very least
permanent barring from public office and influence..

Trump is a toxic figurehead.
But cutting off the head of the snake does not finish off his malignant legacy.
Other corrupting heads are waiting for their turn to quickly grow back to replace him..

They must be preemptively stopped alongside with trump...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:18 AM

Even if the president is impeached and subsequently convicted for abusing their pardon power, the remedy would be limited to removal from office and disqualification from future office. So the individual president is removed from power, but their acts are not undone.
In fact, the CRS noted that some have argued impeachment is “useless against a president . . . who grants controversial pardons in the very last hours of his tenure.” Meaning the president can grant whichever pardons they want just before they leave office and nothing can stop them.

And there are no other ways to stop a presidential pardon either. A footnote in a 1977 William and Mary Law Review paper said, “the pardon remains effective despite removal of the president for issuing it. Once delivered, a pardon cannot be revoked.” And there’s no evidence that this has changed in the 40 years since it was written.

So, a pardoned person will remain pardoned even if a president is impeached and convicted. Once the paperwork is complete and the person is officially pardoned by the president, there is no precedent for undoing it.

Courts will probably overturn a self pardon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:45 AM

That's as good a reason as any for rogue dictatorships being swiftly 'remedied'
by the targeted deaths of the dictator, his sons, generals, and regime political & religious leaders...

Something the USA has been ruthlessly effective with in overseas interventions in foreign lands...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 09:10 AM

I agree

The big picture of US politics and leftist economic policy from FDR's NEW DEAL faded away by 1960 with conservatives whittling aqy and regulating away the New Deal. Since then the partys in the US became the same except for civil rights. Tweedle dum and tweedle dee. Monopolies emerged again. We even farmed out child labor. There has been NO true left for 60 years. When the only difference between Dems and Republicans was racial politics, Trump played it up to the max.
...........................
Love me I'm a liberal democrat except for economic policy against blacks - was the reality of institutional racism.
............................
A true FDR left is needed now because of the pandemic depression inequality and wealth poverty chasms. How we get ahead is the challenge in light of the conspiracy population.

Evil genius' got us here and good genius' are needed to get ahead.


Now you know more about US political evolution than 95% of Americans.
Yeah the statistic is my guess :^/


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 09:53 AM

"And there’s no evidence that this has changed in the 40 years since it was written."

Think how little precedent has been set so far regarding impeached Presidents. This is the fourth time a President has been impeached, and two of those times were Trump. I think the possibility of changing things has to do with WHY he was impeached, and why the pardons should be thrown out.

I don't believe he can pardon himself. AFAIK, no President has ever done that, but the founding fathers definitely didn't have a "get out of jail free" card in mind when they wrote it into the Constitution. It was supposed to be about righting wrongs, and justice.

But I am not a lawyer, and all of the above is opinion/supposition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 10:44 AM

Most people frown on those who try to put a crown or halo on themselves. The supream Court Justice to preside at Clintons impeachment sewed 5 stars on his robe sleeves to out rank all generals. Impeachments have their improvisational side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 11:33 AM

In order to pardon himself, wouldn't he first have to admit that he had done something wrong?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:28 PM

He can stay silent.(if only) He would only be considered guilty by law and pardoned.
Suffering punishment and imprisonment will not come from the Federal Government.

It will/could come from State Civil courts and monetary suits from corporations, banks, Joe Sixpack etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:45 PM

"Suffering punishment and imprisonment will not come from the Federal Government."
You must have a crystal ball because the efficacy of a self-pardon is not a foregone conclusion. The D.C. Attorney General is under the jusridiction of the federal government and he's investigating the speakers who ginned up the crowd before the Jan. 6 insurrection, which include trump. The feds will also be interested in his recorded phone call to the Georgia Sec. of State in which he begged for votes as well as his attempt to coerce Pence into unlawfully overturning the election results. He's nowhere near out of the woods with the feds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:46 PM

"jurisdiction"


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM

As to Jos' question, merely accepting a pardon implies that one has committed unlawful acts. Many a person who has been charged with a crime has refused a pardon because of that implication.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:24 PM

Actually to accept a pardon would merely imply that you believed it was likely you might be found guilty, not that you accepted that you were actually guilty. It's different from. The situation where a pardon is offered to someone after they have been found guilty, when a condition of it being offered is tgat guilt is accepted.

I don't suppose it would work to claim that the Senate trial, if successful, was confirming the view of the House that Trump was guilty, and that the verdict should therefore apply from the moment of the impeachment, and that any pardons from that point on would not be valid. Since there has never yet been any impeachments that were confirmed by the Senate, there are no precedents to guide the court. It would be worth trying this anyway.   

I don't think there is any reason to think the supreme court justices slipped in by Trump would feel any obligation to help him. As originists they'd be likely to be trying to channel what the Founding Fathers intended. And it seems pretty obvious the FFs would have seen Trump as a contemptible little man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:56 PM

McGrath: "Since there has never yet been any impeachments that were confirmed by the Senate, there are no precedents to guide the court."

There have been multiple cases of impeachments that were adjudged guilty, just not presidents. Since there had been only been two previous presidential impeachments -out of 44 presidents- that hardly establishes a set rule.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 06:10 PM

Why can't all these mighty clever and powerful legislators just respond to abnormal current events,
to fast track making new rules setting a precedent
on how to punish an evil wannabe mad dictator president...???

I thought the USA prided itself on being a 'can do' kinda culture...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 06:41 PM

Supream Court Justices are more like sitting ducks compared to Congress people. You can be sure they empathize with Congress and don't want to toy with Donald ever again. The profle of a Justice's courage should not be predicted.

We are on a fast track 'can do' pace.
Legally speaking "intent and state of mind" will be the prominent issues.

ps I do have a crystal ball and a 209 isotope iron nickel meteor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 06:50 PM

Nixon woulda bin CONvicted bud he quit B-4 the Sinet voted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:06 PM

"Supreme Court Justices are more like sitting ducks compared to Congress people"

How so? They've tenure for life. There is nothing Trump could do for them, now or at any future time, short of taking out a contract on them.

They may have needed to suck up to him before they got the gig. But that's past and done. He can't touch them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:42 PM

Even if the Senare failed to convict,, Trump would still be liable to prosecution for his actions on January 6th. And if found guilty the 14th amendment would still be likely to kick in and bar him from running for President in 2024. And it is to be hoped, bang him up for a long time.

Mind you that would be likely to mean Donald Junior, if pardoned by Daddy, running in his place - no doubt waving his copy of Trump's version of Mein Kampf, ghosted for him while he hangs out in a pretty luxurious cell. And Donald Junior if elected might be even worse. For all his faults the President has one redeeming feature - at base however malevolent and evil he may be, he is very stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:59 PM

Considering the hundreds of self-congratulatory tweets he's put up, it's a fair bet that Mike Pence is jostling for position for 2024...

Makes me feel glad that I'm getting old. Pass the cooking sherry and hold the glass.

If the Senate convicts him, that would be a good kicking-off point for charging him with criminal offences. If it doesn't, which still seems the likely outcome, I think you'd be in a big mess if you tried putting him in the dock.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:02 PM

.. and old billionaires should be more likely to drop dead sooner from unhealthy lifestyles..

Hopefully Jnr has an urge for trendy dangerous high adrenaline fast sports activities...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:50 AM

McGrath: "at base however malevolent and evil he may be, he is very stupid."

Great line!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:03 AM

Hopefully Jnr has an urge for trendy dangerous high adrenaline fast acting drugs. That might solve the problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:28 AM

Well I'm not big on wishing people dead, etc. First, I feel that such sentiments, if expressed aloud, may diminish us almost to their level, and, in any case, the kind of people we're talking about are a bit like the Lernaean Hydra. Cut them down and two more just as bad spring up in their place. We've already mentioned Pence and Junior...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:29 AM

Here's what Yale law professor,William Eskridge Jr. thinks about a self-pardon and trump's ongoing legal jeopardy.
WaPo
Fortunately trump still has a crack lawyer in Rudy, who's been seen around the White House carrying a sign that says "Will Work for Pardon".


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:49 AM

Sitting ducks implies less security than Congress which I believe is about to change. At least I hope so.

Sedition requires intent, planning and coordination.
It sounds open and shut to me.
The air/era of trump impunity is over.
Those who believe the Senate will never convict probably think being chicken shit is innate and that Courage is more rare.
They have a point.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:59 AM

It's a question of looking at the current politics and predicting, not believing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 07:10 AM

Even if there is no conviction in the Senate trump has plenty of legal woes ahead. After Jan. 20 he'll no longer have a lapdog AG and he'll be dealing with a Justice Dept., which is independent of the legislative branch ,that he won't be able to use as a personal defense team, quite the opposite in fact, to say nothing of state and municipal prosecutors that want to have a go at him. Pass the popcorn.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM

And while you're munching the popcorn, better look over your shoulder. A trial is sure to galvanise an awful lot of those 70-odd million supporters of his.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 07:24 AM

I don't really give a shit about that, when you back down from terrorists where does it stop. I'm more focused on the 80 plus million who voted for Biden and the fact that under trump the GOP lost the midterms, the White House and control of the Senate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:17 AM

If next week goes peacefully, I think we could have a bit more confidence that things will settle.

Be careful what you charge him with!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM

Legislators and prosecutors need to do their constitutional duty regardless of where it leads, we've had enough lawlessness these past 4 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:35 AM

The worst scenario is a NYT headline of TRUMP ACQUITED TWICE
A rushed impeachmnt has its risks compared to waiting to see more evidence of collusion with sedition and mob attacks.

Lyndsy Graham says be afraid our mob will get you if you impeach (paraphrase)
But trump is a one trick pony and does not have time to assemble more death marches. If the fascists were going to openly shoot they would have alraedy. That does not preclude cowardly snipers.

Same with the Qanon shaman wearing horns did not stab anyone with his spear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:48 AM

Agreed, Donuel, this can't be a quickie trial. There were reports from White House workers that trump, instead of calling for aid in quelling the riot, was tromping around the place wondering why everyone wasn't more excited about the storming of the Capitol. These people need to be deposed, they can't just rely on trump's pre-riot speech. Fortunately McConnell won't be setting the agenda this time around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:02 AM

" I think you'd be in a big mess if you tried putting him in the dock."

It's all a big mess whatever happens. But the fact that the Senate might fail to support the impeachment need not in any way interfere with a court trial. I can't see how it could be seen as double jeopardy. The impeachment isn't a criminal prosecution. And the difference from the last impeachment is that this time it is pretty evident there will be a majority vote against him, just not enough to reach the two-thirds level.

Getting a jury together might be a bit tricky. I doubt if there are many people in Amerca who haven't pretty firm settled opinions about these issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:10 AM

The link Donuel shared makes it fairly clear that the double jeopardy defence would not apply in law, at least in the opinion of Cornell Law School. Whether that would mean Trump's lawyers and any media he still has on side would not claim it "in the court of public opinion" is quite another matter. I could easily see it being claimed as another QAnon/"biggest witch hunt in history"/Elitist plot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:18 AM

"I could easily see it being claimed as another QAnon/"biggest witch hunt in history"/Elitist plot."
Of course it will be but we've got to stop cowering before this would-be dictator if we're ever going to be rid of him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM

.. quick googling suggested the ultimate sentence for sedition in the USA
is death...???

trump has shown himself to be a very enthusiastic supporter for the death penalty..

.. just saying..


Many, many, Americans have been executed for far lesser crimes
than the accumulation trump is guilty of...

.. and if his most fanatical acolytes pledge to sacrifice their lives for him as wannabe civil war martyrs..

That's their choice...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 10:04 AM

If the Senate trial fails to convict, he couldn't claim double jeopardy as that trial is not related to due process in the criminal justice system, but it would be grist to the mill of Trump and his supporters in the event of a criminal trial. I agree with gillymor about having the courage to go for him fully, but there will be consequences: it keeps him prominently in the public eye for a protracted period - think of the headlines week after week - and it would very likely whip up whatever supporters he would still have by then. I suspect it would still be tens of millions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM

Ideally, trump and his close allies choose a glorious Alamo style last stand on one of his estates..
Get it over quick, done and dusted..
Start slowly rebuilding the US...

Some worshippers would write the history of his heroic martyrdom.
Most of the world would write him off as a pathetic failed tyrant..

.. adding, trump to the list of saddam, gadafi, bin laden, etc...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 10:43 AM

PFR,
I know you like to use sarcasm to make your point, but some of your last few posts, on how to get rid of Trump and his close supporters, seem decidedly unpleasant. I am sure you can find some valid points to make without hoping for people's deaths.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:01 AM

Doug - Not a time for squeamish moral superiority bollocks..

I am a pacifist, but not an absolutist pacifist.

As a general rule I would prefer not to wish death on anybody.

I am anti death penalty,
but accept there are valid extreme exceptions when it may be a last resort viable pragmatic solution...

trump may be one of them..

The threat of time on death row might appeal to his instinct for cutting a deal for clemency
on condition he fucks off into quiet exile...???


Here's a fun game..

Let's guess trump's response to being told by a higher authority
that he could make things right again
by either sacrificing his own, or his son's life...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:03 AM

Comedic relief can cause some grief
but is worth the needed release

Pense was seconds away from a crossfire and lynching event.
It would have changed the nature of the gallows humor if he had been shot or hung.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:20 AM

Most people know that the 3rd Reich soldiers took Pervatin (crystal meth) and later oxycodone. It seems the rag tag nazis in America do too.
I wwwould hope they will also use Himmler's little helpers (cyanide)


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:21 AM

donald trump, Messianic leader of a death cult...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:36 AM

trumpzi militia guerillas would be taking semi auto machine guns, hunting rifles, and body armour
to a Drones and Cruise missiles fight...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:39 AM

I'm with Doug Chadwick on refraining from wishing death on others.

According to the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, Mr T's supporters in Congress are claiming that his inflammatory rhetoric is just colourful figurative talk, and it's not his fault certain people took him seriously.

Me, I want to see Trump and his followers humiliated and repentant. They can't atone for their sins if they're dead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:43 AM

pfr
Abraham bound his son Isaac on an altar at Moriah long ago, as he had been instructed by God. An angel stopped Abraham when he was about to slay his son and switched Isaac with a ram!
Donald bound his son Donald on an alter in Maralago, as he had been instructed by Satan. A demon stopped Donald when he was about to slay his son to reverse election results and switched Donald with Donald!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:50 AM

"Me, I want to see Trump and his followers humiliated and repentant. They can't atone for their sins if they're dead."

Charmion, we have an expression this side of the pond "in your dreams" which means that is absolutely not going to happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:36 PM

Repentant is too much to ask for. Humiliated perhaps not.

But what's really needed is to find some way to open the eyes of some of his supporters.   There is always a significant number of people in any society who are basically lost souls when it comes to thee kind of things. But generally they are a relatively small proprtion - call them a fringe, call them a gardcore, but there aren't tgat geat a proprtion.

But what is frightening is that belief in Trumpism and the lies of Trump appear to be actually shared by the large majority of those who voted for Trump. It was easy enough to imagine why people might choose to opt for either of the candidates in both Presidential elections, as in any election, But this kind of brand loyalty is very hard to make sense enough. Hold your nose and vote for what seems like the lesser of two evils - but to actually like and Trust someone like Trump, that is unconceivable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:40 PM

pfr, your fun game might be more fun if the answer weren't so obvious. :-)


When trump contracted COVID-19 I hoped it would croak him because given his continuing disinterest in dealing with the virus as a public health issue his death would have saved a lot of innocent lives and we wouldn't be in this dire situation now. When and how he sheds this mortal coil is now of no consequence to me as long as he's gone.
A Pew Poll conducted from Jan.8-12 has him a at a 29% approval rating, the lowest of his term with a note worthy decline among Republicans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:42 PM

I'm glad the Nurmemburg trials didn't sentence Goering to humilliation, atonement and repentance.
Nazi sympathsizers and white supremists come in many flavors I guess.
Or am I being too harsh on Rudy and friends?
Kids torn from their parents and put in barb wire camps have still not been reunited.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:49 PM

The ? in my last post was meant to be a smiley face.


They don't show; I edited in a text version of it for you. ;-) ---mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM

Thanks, elf.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:16 PM

It's quite handy trump decreed Guantanamo Bay should remain open for business..

But with all the trumpzi internal terrorists at large, you might need a bigger camp...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:29 PM

They need to close Guantanamo and use the prisons for people who really need to be in there (Trump domestic terrorists) now that they will hopefully release those charged wtih minor drug offenses that were way over-prosecuted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:37 PM

pfr said, "The threat of time on death row might appeal to his instinct for cutting a deal for clemency
on condition he fucks off into quiet exile...???"

But, what's the probability of Trump being able to stay out of trouble and keep his big mouth shut for any length of time, let alone the rest of his life. And as leeneia said, the Hydra effect would kick in and the Trump sprogs would kickstart their political careers.

As Raggytash said about seeing "Trump and his followers humiliated and repentant" those two responses are not in a sociopath's repertoire.

And pfr, "But with all the trumpzi internal terrorists at large, you might need a bigger camp... " don't forget to factor in the superspreader events facilitated by Trump for his massive fan base. Sadly, the massive fan base might be drastically reducing day by day and the blame for that lies squarely in Trump's lap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:21 PM

Helen - yeah.. trump's larger mass scale equivalent of the cult poison suicide Jonestown Massacre..

..or if he goes for the 'Alamo option'.. the Waco siege...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:25 PM

Trump is like all bullies, he is a coward. He will never put himself in physical danger.

He might put his wife or his children in that position but never himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM

As witnessed, Raggytash, by the fact that Trump said he would be there with them at the Capitol and then held a big party and watched it all on television and delayed calling in the National Guard until Mike Pence finally did it.

Yep, pfr, very similar to the Jonestown massacre.

I always knew Trump was stupid, but how stupid is it to kill off your own fan base by denying that the virus is real and deliberately putting them in danger? I don't think rational thinking is in his repertoire either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:50 PM

Who are the extremist rioters?

They are extremely varied-
Qanon- a virtual religious cult of Trump prophecies and magical thinking
Nazis- are under diffrent titles; boogaloo boys, proud boys and KKK spin offs
Tea party mutants- people who had truth decay from the start and evolved into predators
Religious right- From Jerry Falwell to Bob Jones protestant graduates
2nd Amendment fans- Paranoid since Obama who prefer Sandy Hooks to gun control
Rush Limbaugh veterans- People who always hated women and others smarter than themselves
Typical racists- Exploiters and folks secretly envious of blacks
Militias- 1%'s, oath keepers and lodges that play soldier on weekends.
AK 47 - enthusiasts looking for a reason

There are others of course but the main thing is that they do not get along with each other or authorities.

Americans- Exposed to media that shapes their hate strategicly


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:55 PM

Like ancient world god-like emperors
decreeing their families, servants, soldiers, horses, and dogs
be entombed with them
when they die...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:21 PM

Now the old dickhead wants a military send-off on inauguration day and I think we should give it to him. Strap him to an ICBM, point it towards Mar a Lago and start the countdown.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:33 PM

Really? What happened to tar & feathers and a rail?

I like parades!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:36 PM

There is a definate over reaction show of force in DC.
There is also a over reaction by Fox News accusing Democrats of lies, riots and a plan to frame Trump. btw they say lockdowns are a lie and don't work. who knew

what happened to tar and feathers?


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 10:32 PM

Doug Chadwick:

My reference to "pull 'is own 'ead off rather than see Doug" was a reference to an old Monty Python sketch on how non-desirous a criminal was to have to answer to the master criminal Doug Piranha who used...............sarcasm. "'E knew all the tricks, metaphor, pathos, pun, litotes, and satire!"

The regular practise of Question Time seems to be somewhat more erudite and brassy than American legislators are wont to endure in modern times. The mastery both questioner and PM have to have to endure this swift repartee seems to be well beyond what puffed up yankee solons can view with impunity.

As to harsh desires some of us may have regarding our outgoing President and his 'sisters and his cousins and his aunts' (That's a Gilbert and Sullivan reference). some of you might enjoy the recent "Squeeze Me" novel by Carl Hiaasen in which the Current Occupant runs into problems on his golf resort when large burmese pythons begin to show up, apparently by invitation, to embarrass him and his supporters, to say the least.

In the meantime, yesterday I got my first covid vaccine shot from an Anchorage school system nurse. Reported on in the vaccine thread.


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