BS: Trump Actions & Effects (NO new Trmp threads!)

Subject: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jul 20 - 01:32 AM

Part One

Back in 2003 I was working out of my home state. I was sent to California to work in a refinery near Oakland. And California hit the big time news with a successful effort to recall Governor Gray Davis from his second term. My closest of kin was a native Californian who found the recal ridiculous. For one thing the newly reelected Democratic governor was perfectly honest and capable. The Republican legislator who sponsored the recall was notoriously not so. And then when the recall was successful, he backed out of the whole thing and did not run to replace Davis himself.

What followed was a political maelstrom with over a hundred contenders and a fracas that was simultaneously horror show and low comedy that would have kept Spitting Image busy with tons of papier mache had they still been around. And long story short, California got The Governator. Arnold Schwarzeneggar was elected, served a full term, and was reelected.

The next year, The Apprentice ‘reality show’ premiered with Donald Trump. I watched some of the early episodes. Trump did not take to the screen very much in the episodes I saw. The contending novices and the tasks set them took up the bulk of the show and provided the competitive tension. Trump would furnish the gravitas as the ‘decider’ at a final boardroom showdown and got to utter the immortal phrase: “you’re fired!”. Right from the start I could not see why anyone would humiliate themselves to be subjected to that man’s judgment. I would find it defiling, but then, in America the trappings of wealth, power and competence is accepted as a substitute for the real thing in so many cases. Fronting a reality show is definitely one of those cases.

That show with Donald Trump went on until 2015. Then Trump left for possibly higher things, and the show morphed into Celebrity Apprentice with guess who as the new decider:

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jul 20 - 12:28 PM

Did he never say "you will be back"?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jul 20 - 12:55 PM

LOL -actually it was a chuckle-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Jul 20 - 03:31 AM

I wish you hadn't mentioned Spitting Image. It got me remembering the two Davids (David Owen with David Steele in his pocket) and asking myself if is they would portray Trump and Johnson as conjoined twins - then the imagery got worse when I remember what Johnson was slang for - Trump with a talking Johnson in his trousers. Surprised that Steve Bell hasn't picked up on this - I suppose the imagery would be too much even for the Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 12:41 AM

Good story, robomatic.

You probably are aware that we're trying to recall our governor? I don't know the man personally but what convinced me is what he did to the ferries that fed our offshore islands. Deplorable. A tRump wannabe, if I ever saw one.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Effects 2016-2020
From: Jos
Date: 26 Jul 20 - 01:26 AM

"what Johnson was slang for"
Well, that's one I hadn't come across before. Maybe it's a US thing. I suppose Americans know what a "trump" is (aside from the card-playing meaning)?

Subject: BS: Federal Funding and jurisdictions
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 09:38 PM

This is really ominous to me --
if the US Government in its branches
(executive and judicial, here)
can go this far,
I hate to think what is next.

in response to Trump memorandum

Subject: RE: BS: Federal Funding and jurisdictions
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 10:35 PM

From Keberoxu's link:

The U.S. Department of Justice today identified the following three jurisdictions that have permitted violence and destruction of property to persist and have refused to undertake reasonable measures to counteract criminal activities: New York City; Portland, Oregon; and Seattle, Washington. The Department of Justice is continuing to work to identify jurisdictions that meet the criteria set out in the President’s Memorandum and will periodically update the list of selected jurisdictions as required therein.

The list was published on DOJ’s website today in response to President Trump’s memorandum of September 2, 2020, entitled “Memorandum on Reviewing Funding to State and Local Government Recipients That Are Permitting Anarchy, Violence, and Destruction in American Cities.”

Well, the election is in November. This decree won't make Trump popular in these cities.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Federal Funding and jurisdictions
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 12:11 PM

To me it smacks of the Soviet Union and the KGB.
Well, this country already has gulags ...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 12:25 PM

I moved this "Federal Funding and jurisdictions" topic over here. We're ending up with a lot of Trump threads, and I have to agree with the UK contingent - if we're going to limit them to the number of UK politic threads they start we need to keep the Trump threads under control as well. There are plenty to go around.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 05:22 AM

I've been awfully afraid of the outcome of the upcoming presidential election. But after tonight's debate between the current pResident and Joe Biden I can only say grimly:if anyone still supports the Golden Ass they deserve him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 10:58 AM

There was a term used in an interview recently that I can't get my hands on how via a search. The interviewee said that people have trouble predicting a different future when looking at current events. That they tend to see more of the same in the future instead of a decisive change.

This is certainly the case now - several friends who fully intend to vote for Biden have expressed sorrow that they're afraid Trump will win anyway. Simply because they're so miserable now they can't see enough people pulling it together to make a change.

I'm optimistic enough to read the current political climate as a whole bunch of people who are working hard to get out the vote, because what they most fear is another Trump term. And if they keep working, they will see positive results.

If nothing else, last night's series of "non-presidential" interruptions by Trump will spur Democrats on to go ahead and vote (if they haven't already. I mailed my ballot yesterday, figuring five weeks will be enough to reach the election administrator).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Sep 20 - 06:06 PM

And at long last
there has been a parting of the ways
between Donald Trump and the Drudge Report
(according to the New York Times).

Subject: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Elmore
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 01:10 AM

The latest news on MSNBC declares that Donald J. Trump and his wife have tested positive for what he claimed was the disappearing virus. Nancy Pelosi is praying for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 03:42 AM

Or at least it’s a way of avoiding any further televised debates? He made a complete bell-end of himself on the one the other night, perhaps he and his controllers have decided enough is enough and pulled this stunt to save face?

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM

I can't help but be cynical and think it's a publicity stunt, he will come back (early) and say it was no more than a cold and we shouldn't be taking precaution, wearing masks etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 05:12 AM

I can certainly see that happening, Raggytash. Or if he is more affected but recovers in a week or two, claim that shows how super-fit and resilient he is. Or, if it a bit worse, seek the sympathy vote. Really, there are a lot of ways to play it if he is not actually hospitalized.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Senoufou
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 06:57 AM

There are so many ways in which this announcement could get a bit more support for Trump that I very much doubt its veracity.
But if it's true, to wish that it would carry him off isn't morally defensible.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 07:00 AM

I was reading that there is much uncertainty about what would happen to all the mail-in votes that have already been cast which have his name on them if Trump died or withdrew. In the accounts I have read, it is not clear if any votes cast for him would automatically transfer to another nominee. Even the votes cast for Biden could be in some doubt, since saying you prefer Biden to Trump does not inherently say you prefer Biden to A. N. Other.

On the UK side of the ocean this passes almost in a single comment, but presumably it is exercising people on the US side more. I'd be interested in hearing comments on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 07:08 AM

At this moment I can't of anything that would be more beneficial to mankind than for this would-be dictator to exit this mortal realm, perhaps we could get those children on the southern border reunited with their families. Unfortunately the statistics indicate he's liable to weather this even though he's elderly, fat, eats garbage and doesn't exercise beyond playing golf out of a cart.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 07:34 AM

Also with his passing and the election of a new administration we're sure to get a serious response to the virus which will save untold numbers of lives.
If he does pull through expect a whole new raft of lies and misinformation from the White House about the virus that will lead to even more death and illness.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:01 AM

This has also caused the cancellation of this weekend's planned super-spreader events in Wisconsin, without masks and social distancing, which will no doubt save lives up there as there will be no additional trump cultists spreading the virus among their fellow citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:17 AM

I think that Twitler going viral may just ensure he doesn't win. But will he leave?

Hey - give him some of his bleach, that'll solve the problemo.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:27 AM

Incidentally Spitting Image is back to tomorrow, though only on the streaming service Britbox. The trailer on YouTube and the releases of pictures of the new puppets look very promising and pretty savage.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 08:50 AM

There has been talk (on NPR this AM) of what will happen with the election. He's on the ballot. If Pence has to be sworn in, will votes for Trump automatically go to Pence?
I think it might be believed that he and Melania got it from Hope Hicks, but it's speculation, and more is coming out about this as time goes on.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 09:02 AM

Who knows if Hicks infected them but the WH knew of her infection in advance of his fund-raising trip to New Jersey.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-10-02-20-intl/h_da0bc1f63ac9a7ab1e5ea0a4135723b7

Maybe trump's illness will inspire a number of his numbnutz followers to take CDC guidelines seriously at long last.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 09:45 AM

At the least it's a wake-up.
People politicized mask wearing.
Can't politicize Covid-19.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:09 AM

Unfortunately, this as close to evil as humanly possible man
can afford the finest emergency health care on this planet;
to help him claim how super human Übermensch fit he is
to shrug off this minor inconvenience harmless virus...

Would it be more beneficial for humanity
if covid kills trump,
or permanently reduces him to a feeble dribbling invalid old man...???

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:11 AM

He's gone from having a positive test to having "mild Covid symptoms" in only the past few hours, so I think it's too early to know what will happen.

...not that he or his toadies will tell anybody if he DOES get really sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:11 AM

I don't want him to suffer, I just want him gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Orange Clown gets the virus
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:33 AM

Ironically, his surrogates, including his idiot son, Don Jr., have been spreading unfounded rumors about Joe Biden's health.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 10:47 AM

I saw the thread title and said to meself: "That's interesting!" totally forgetting who the OP....

But I've got another Trump story. A 45 year old Trump story.

I took Russian language in high school. Really loved it because aside from the wonderful flow of the phonemes and the fact that the Russian teacher was the best teacher in school, a massive presence who could entertain and terrify at the same time, we had a huge supply of a magazine called "Soviet Life". These magazines were the result of an agreement between the U.S. and U.S.S.R. which encouraged mutual understanding. They published a magazine for Americans in English with stories of life in the Soviet Union. We published a magazine for Russians in Russian with stories about our side of the world. Their magazine was very print heavy with large low definition black and white photos I even remember fingerprints from the dark room visible on a page sized print. Our magazines were a little thinner with glossy color prints. Their magazine piled up mostly unread in our libraries and as it happens in my Russian language schoolroom. I found out that our magazine was gobbled up within minutes of going on sale because I happened by such an event in the USSR one day.

Anyhow, while confined in classroom with little to do I opened one of the Soviet mags and saw a question and answer section about life in Soviet Russia. Someone had asked the question: "What do Soviets think about political jokes?" The answer in the magazine was pretentious and serious, all about having a proper regard for the seriousness of public office and considerations as to proper sense of levity balanced against the need to appreciate humor. But even young ignorant teenager that I was I already knew the correct answer to the question:

"Political jokes are fine, as long as they don't get elected!"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 11:57 AM

I moved some of the "Orange clown" posts here and closed the other thread. Seriously, we already have too many Trump threads going, and just as we're trying to restrict the number of UK political threads, it isn't necessary to start a new thread any time some new Trump event or insult happens.

That said, if someone starts a thread where there is a sober discussion of constitutional questions during this time, with good links to responsible journalism, that would be welcome. The closed one was mostly a gloating thread and the content can join the rest of the Trump chatter in this tread.

---

That thread has been started.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 20 - 01:17 PM

The President is certainly a candidate for "Super-Spreader of the Year."

The worst quip I've seen this morning was with regard to Biden's prospects for victory in November: "There is always hope!"

Cheerily,
Charlie Ipcar (previously known as Charley Noble)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 04:54 AM

One way and another I suspect this could save thousands of lives. It could mean the end of the crazy situation where it appears that millions of Trump's true believers see wearing a mask or social distancing as treachery. It's been estimated that if all Americans started to behave rationally in those matters it would cut the predicted death rate over the next few months by a significant amount.

I was watching a White House correspondent on the BBC commenting on the way that the White House atmosphere had totally changed, and instead of no-one wearing masks (the President didn't like them to) they all were.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 05:01 AM

I wish trump and his wife a speedy recovery - then the mocking can restart!!!!!!!! Is he wearing his jacket in hospital I wonder!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 09:41 AM

The gathering in the Rose Garden last week looks like it was a super-spreader event with little social distancing, a lot of glad handing and about 50 mask wearers among about 180 attendees. WTF is wrong with these people, they're suppose to be leading us out of this pandemic.
Essence.com

Fortunately trump was waylaid by the virus before he could hold his event in Green Bay today where public health officials are reporting that their hospitals are overwhelmed with COVID cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 10:34 AM

The Rose Garden event has led to 6 confirmed cases, including Mr. Trump. The Supreme Court nominee and her husband have already recovered from the coronavirus infection so they are not a factor.

The Debate in Cleveland has led to 11 confirmed cases among out of state staff informed in planning and set-up.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 01:36 PM

Jos, do tell.

I have heard of the last trump and of coming up trumps and of bridge-whist-spades-type trumps, what am I missing?

And I thought Johnson was British, I coulda sworn it came from that Monty Python skit, with John Thomas and one-eyed trouser snake. Which I shall now go find.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 03:07 PM

They are a factor if you can catch COVID-19 again. It hasn't been proven that there is long-term immunity after recovery.

Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 03:30 PM

well they are all puppets
The Man in the Mask

Notes: words and music by Malvina Reynolds; copyright 1971 Schroder Music Company, renewed 1999. A portrait of Richard Nixon, and Richard Nixons in general.


Come sit down beside me before the big T.V.
And watch the funny pictures they have there to look at,
Shampoo for your hair and the last polar bear,
And the man on the moon who was walking around
Then left, leaving junk on the once virgin ground.

There's old timey movies with old fashioned dresses,
The kidnap of babies and other such messes,
There's football and baseball and guys selling cars,
And then there's The Man in the Mask.

Chorus:
They say it's his face, but I just can't believe it.
It looks like a mask that I saw in the store.
It talks with deep feeling about ending some war
And stopping inflation, and it's so fantastic,
You'll cry while you're laughing, and roll on the floor.

Every four years he puts a new mask on.
Each one is worse than the one he had before,
But the words are the same and the same earnest manner,
About ending inflation and stopping the war.

The sponsors paid out a million of millions
To get him up there with his magic routine,
But it's really a bargain, 'cause there's such a margin
In war and inflation and the big T.V. screen
That gives us The Man in the Mask.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 04:44 PM

For Mrrzy

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/trump-fart.1529620/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 05:50 PM

‘Trump’ is in very common usage in the UK as a slang term for the act of breaking wind. In my own family it has always been regarded as a somewhat polite term, suitable for children - whereas ‘fart’ is regarded as vulgar.

Donald Trump has thus always been regarded as a figure of ridicule by many British people because of his extremely unfortunate surname.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 05:58 PM

And his grandfather chose it for them. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 07:11 PM

Anybody who went to that super spreader meeting to launch Amy Barrett's nomination without wearing a mask, including Amy Barrett, is clearly so stupid that it would be totally irresponsible to put them on the SupremeCourt, regardless of any other issues.

The same obviously goes for the President, but that's a matter of a much wider electorate. The Senator's have a much more direct responsibility as individuals. Ordinary voters can always be pretty sure their single vote won't make a crucial difference. The Senators don't have that let out.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 06:34 AM

I saw a video yesterday on CNN that showed Barret sitting in the White House with her children in close proximty to Melania just before the Rose Garden event and all were maskless.
As for Dr. Conley it seems that everyone in trump's orbit has only a passing acquaintance with the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 09:20 AM

Risking the lives of her children in that way was a breathtaking level of irresponsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 10:22 AM

It seems that with three GOP senators out ill with COVID19 they don't have enough votes for the senate confirmation. Dog works in mysterious ways indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 10:23 AM

If Barret has a confirmation hearing, and I sincerely hope that the religious zealot does not, let's hope that disgraceful little tableau comes up along with her maskless presence at the WH super-spreader event.
A new NBC/WSJ poll has Biden up by 14 points, trump is going to have to go a ways to steal this election but don't think he won't.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 10:37 AM

Trump is continuing the negative ads against Biden, despite Biden pulling his negative ads while the pResident is in the hospital. Trump wouldn't understand Grace if it bit him in the ass (which, of course, Grace would never do).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 01:26 PM

Jos, thank you so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 05:52 PM

Trump just hopped in a SUV and the presidential motorcade drove around Washington, D.C. A man with COVID-19 just sat in a closed vehicle with supposedly non-COVID-19 staff so he could go wave at supporters.

Seriously. He put all of those people in harms way so he could go wave at his fan base.

Unbelievable.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM

I'll be really pissed off if covid kills me but fails to eliminate trump...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 07:24 PM

Here's what Dr. James Phillips tweeted about trump's joy ride today:

"Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential “drive-by” just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity."

Daily Kos

By now it should be obvious to even the dullest among us that trump doesn't care about anyone but himself. When I consider the chaos he's going to send this country into as the election nears and his poll numbers continue to flag I gotta say I'm pulling for the virus.

Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Oct 20 - 03:55 AM

It seems there's nothing this bozo can't turn into a publicity stunt. I suppose it's a lot easier than actually doing your job.

Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Oct 20 - 04:19 AM

He’s totally insane.

Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Oct 20 - 10:18 AM

Apparently trump refused to allow an engineer on to his boat in 1983 because he was black - how appalling.

Subject: RE: Constitutional Questions re Trump has SARS-CoV2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 20 - 10:55 AM

Almost as appalling as the suggestion that defenceless, destitute families fleeing torture, rape, murder in their own countries, and begging the UK for asylum should be sent to Ascension Island, or incarcerated on disused oil rigs.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 01:31 AM

Today it was 'discovered' that instead of the 16 or 18 that had been revealed as having tested positive, there are at least 34! Most of them trace to the (outdoor!) event when Coney Bartlett was introduced. She herself is reported to have had the virus in July and recovered but it is not yet known whether a recovered person may still shed virus cells.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 09:48 AM

Ebbie, where did you see that?

I'm thinking the press can work their way through the known individuals at that Sept. 26 event.

This Washington Post article gives you a good look at each attendee. It was updated yesterday.

Here is a New York Timeslook at attendees.

I think the one and only presidential "debate" is all they're going to do. No one in their right mind would want to get near any of the White House crowd who work on Trump events (regardless of the Hatch Act - another issue that seems to be largely ignored by the GOP and White House employees).

There is so very much wrong with how Trump conducts himself and minds the main chance in this office.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 03:06 AM

“It is high time that we all stopped being tools and victims of totalitarian techniques — techniques that, if continued here unchecked, will surely end what we have come to cherish as the American way of life,”

senator Margaret Chase Smith June 1, 1950

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 05:11 AM

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/34-people-connected-white-house-previously-infected-coronavirus/story?id=73487381

Sorry, Stilly River Sage, I've forgotten how to make a link.

---

Fixed. Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 01:29 PM

There is a UK TV programme called Frankie Boyle's New World Order, which is essentially a comic programme but of late they have discussed quite a few quite serious topics in amongst it. This week Armando Iannucci was reflecting on a fear he had that if Trump loses, through Trump TV or whatever, states that voted Republican could continue to follow him with bare compliance to federal rulings, and he could remain a major influence on the US through his dedicated followers, who would easily accept the story of a stolen election. This could be a major running sore in the US for years to come.

I have to say it sounded quite plausible to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 05:16 PM

" (White Nationalists) Stand ready" is a Trump quote. The effect was speeding up the arrest of white nationlists who were going to kidnap and kill the Democratic Govenor of Michigan and law enforcement. In the FBI arresting killers any time to the left of - BOOM - is better than waiting too long. It is hard work being a spy inside hate groups. The othr informers come from the hate groups themselves such as guy who hate the government but ar against killing cops. In a way democracy unravels plots from the inside.

The Trump quote of calling 50,000 armed citizens to watch the polls will have the effect of post election disruption regarding mail in ballots.

If you watch carefully Trump is trying to emulate everything Putin has done from arresting political opponents to election manipulation.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 05:58 PM

Trump will be so mired in legal troubles that he won't have time to direct his misbegotten army. It's clear that the numbers are coming out, his income sources are drying up, his partners in crime are being charged and jailed and Barr is out of dirty tricks.

But this last four months of his "presidency" aren't going to be pretty and it's going to be painful for all. Picking up the pieces is going to take a lot of work come January 20.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 05:59 PM

"Stand back ... stand by" is what he said, as I recall. Same implication - but with just the slightest hint of ambiguity which trump, despite his seeming inability to control language, always seems just cunning enough bring to his most dangerous pronouncements.

Btw - nobody seems to be paying much attention to the fact that Pence, like his master, would not commit to a peaceful transition of power. These fascists clearly welcome murder and mayhem - it's not just the madman trump ....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Oct 20 - 11:30 PM

That seemed telling to me too, meself. Frankly, Pence surprised me in a number of ways. I already knew I don't like his positions but I took him at his word that he in an honorable man- and he is NOT. I was surprised at his ease in lying without so much as a twitch of an (inflamed) eyelid. He is a lot quieter than the current pResident, almost soporifically so, but obviously he is in the camp he wants to be in.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 07:22 AM

Trump and friends want a Covid relief check to go out to everyone 2 weeks before the election. This will put the Post Office in a real bind with ballotts combined with Checks. This is in McConnel's court now if Pelosi can reach a deal.
btw Trump's name is on the stimulus checks.

As for the terrorist American Taliban white nationalists vs. the Army, Navy, Air Force, Space Force and Marines - many of the terrorists are retired Marines. The FBI leads the investigations but local sheriffs call kidnapping govenors "arresting" govenors.

Now a prayer: Lord please let Trump become an example of how not to rest and heal. He could still accidentally save some lives by bad example.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 11:35 AM

In our heart of hearts I think many people wish Trump could experience some of the misery he has visited upon so many.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Oct 20 - 01:28 PM

I suppose we can expect something akin to the Comey letter when election day nears, the donald does like to replay his greatest hits over and over. It will be interesting to see the amount of social distancing and masks worn at today's potential super-spreader event at the White House.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Hrothgar
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 08:39 AM

The Last Trump

Andrew Barton ‘Banjo’ Paterson

‘YOU led the trump,’ the old man said
With fury in his eye,
‘And yet you hope my girl to wed!
Young man! your hopes of love are fled,
’Twere better she should die!

‘My sweet young daughter sitting there,
So innocent and plump!
You don’t suppose that she would care
To wed an outlawed man who’d dare
To lead the thirteenth trump!

‘If you had drawn their leading spade
It meant a certain win!
But no! By Pembroke’s mighty shade
The thirteenth trump you went and played
And let their diamonds in!

‘My girl! Return at my command
His presents in a lump!
Return his ring! For understand
No man is fit to hold your hand
Who leads a thirteenth trump!

‘But hold! Give every man his due
And every dog his day.
Speak up and say what made you do
This dreadful thing—that is, if you
Have anything to say!’

He spoke. ‘I meant at first,’ said he,
'To give their spades a bump,
Or lead the hearts, but then you see
I thought against us there might be,
Perhaps, a fourteenth trump!’

They buried him at dawn of day
Beside a ruined stump:
And there he sleeps the hours away
And waits for Gabriel to play
The last—the fourteenth—trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 08:51 AM

Our boneheaded Florida governor and trump sycophant, Pete Desantis, was filmed yesterday at trump's rally in Sanford (where Trayvon Martin was murdered) high fiving mostly maskless attendees and then wiping his nose with the same hand. This sort of recklessness and stupidity from a public official as COVID19 numbers are rising in more than 30 states is mindboggling.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 09:09 AM

That's Ron DeSantis and here's the story:

msn.com

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 09:13 AM

And just like that it's a music thread. Nice one, Hrothgar.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 10:58 AM

Trump's first choice for VP was Ivanka not Pense.
Things could always be worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 04:33 AM

Well, Homer Simpson was seen sporting a badge that said "Ivanka 2028".

All done as a humongous joke but as Shakespeare wrote Jesters do oft prove prophets

And "worse" could be if Trump refuses to accept defeat. You have civil war, and civil it won't be!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 10:48 AM

It's more and more clear that he might not ever say the words but everyone will know he was defeated, and he'll be ushered out of the White House when the time comes. I suspect there will have to be some legislative move to take him out of the White House before January 20 when he completely blows a gasket. Trump will prove to be the most repulsive "lame duck" the nation has ever seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 12:57 PM

He and his gang will have almost three months put legal strategies into effect - and with a partisan Supreme Court, who knows what will happen .......?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 02:42 AM

Words almost fail me, but there is an even more 'out there' story courtesy of the New York Times and coming from a quite literal Trump worshiper: It can only go under the name of- Trump Apotheosis

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 03:20 AM

Clearly he was as insane as the Fart he worshipped.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Oct 20 - 07:07 PM

I have the PBS News Hour on and was just watching a clip of a Trump speech from this afternoon. He keeps holding his hand up in the "ok" symbol, but that has been identified as now firmly a dogwhistle for the white supremist appropriation.

The 'OK' Hand Gesture Is Now Listed As A Symbol Of Hate. This story is from a year ago, so it isn't like it just popped up now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 02:58 AM

I detest it when signs and language are taken over to represent extremism. I resent any suggestion that if I use the OK hand sign that I might be associated in any way with white supremacism. It is my language just as much as it is the lowlife's.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 11:55 AM

Agreed on that.

I didn't watch either event last night. I've already voted, I don't need to make up my mind (and there was never any consideration of Trump ever).

The trouble with people speculating about what he might or might not do is that these folks give him ideas. I wish everyone would shut up and just hunker down till this is completely finished.

I think Biden is going to have to add two more justices to the Supreme court after McConnell is out of power. And Biden is going to have to codify in law a number of things that the Supreme Court decreed that are slowly being chipped away - the most conspicuous are marriage equality and the right to abortion. Once they're laws, the Supreme Court is out of that (for a while, anyway). And they'll need to do it within the first two years if the Democrats sweep the house, senate, and presidency. The "blue dog" Democrats threw a spanner in the works when Obama was first elected, those individuals elected in Republican areas who are determined to hold onto their jobs by going against everything the party is working on the keep their bases happy. Someone will need to take them aside and explain the concept of "greater good."

Did anyone listen to the Barrett hearings when Senator Whitehouse illustrated, very carefully, how the Federalist Society has been supported by a few huge donors and how they move people around but still end up with the same results - that 80 out of 80 decisions that these donors wanted were agreed to, 5-4, by the Supreme Court? I'll have to see if his half-hour was recorded somewhere and post a link. It was a real education.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 16 Oct 20 - 06:26 PM

I don't know why Biden and Harris don't just say, "Nothing's off the table" or something equally pithy when they're asked about expanding the Supreme Court - their waffling on the question looks ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 12:46 AM

Their not answering one question looks ridiculous? What are you doing, applying traditional standards to presidential candidates? Trump waffles dozens of times a day and people don't seem to hold it against him.

Dog help us.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 01:19 AM

You said it: they don't hold it against trump. But they do hold it against Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 05:45 AM

I doubt if even many Trumpophiles actually believe a word he says. They just don't think it matters.

Mind, he can speak the truth - I've just been seeing him proclaim to a cheering crowd of the faithful "We are all headed round the curve" - which take it is the same as declaring that he and his supporters are giingriund the bed, which is clearly the case..

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Oct 20 - 08:14 AM

A recent trump waffle would be his petty denial of federal aid to California for those disastrous wildfires. It's a state he has no chance of winning and often uses as a liberal punching bag so therefore he's not interested in the human suffering taking place. No doubt the California GOP congressional delegation howled like banshees, this coming so close to the election, and he relented. Wether it's a flip flop or a waffle it's just another indication of his complete lack of humanity.
I'll take Biden and his "waffles" or "Any Other Reasonable Adult", for that matter, over this odious creature any day.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 20 - 08:04 AM

Sorry about the rather strange typo in my last post - for "giingriund the bed" read "going round the bend". Maybe my ipad has picked up a trumpian virus...
.......

---

Truth - this mudelf corrected several typos and spacing issues, but couldn't make head nor tail of that last collection of letters. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 08:17 PM

The OK sign also means Asshole in ASL...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 20 - 10:52 PM

Apparently Trump stormed out of an interview with Leslie Stahl of 60 Minutes. I'm sure that program on Sunday evening will show him leave in all of his petulance.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 04:14 AM

I wish that the number of Justices were changed by the new administration to 13. There is nothing sacrosanct about the number in the court- the first number was three. If there were thirteen and Biden filled the four vacancies, a 7 to 6 split would reflect very well where this country is historically, morally and politically.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 09:32 AM

Trump and his Republican sychophants seem intent on dismantling everything that makes the USA the USA. I don't know why anyone would vote for him, or ANY of them.
...of course, I came from a generation where the kids on the playground who were the bad guys were Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 09:27 PM

Ebbie, in the Islamic religion the number 9 is sancrosanct. Count the number spires on the Taj Mahal. Its a more important # than 72.

Stand bake, stand bready.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 10:02 PM

In the coming weeks, the election obstruction and results will define the country for a generation. These are perilous times. Over the last four years, much of what I hold dear has been threatened – democracy, civility, truth. The country is at a crossroads. The Supreme Court hangs in the balance – and with it, the future of abortion and voting rights, healthcare, climate policy and much more. Science is in a battle with conjecture and gut instinct to determine policy in the middle of a pandemic. At the same time, the US is reckoning with centuries of racial injustice – as the White House stokes division along racial lines, violence, institutional corruption and lies.

Villains have a way of coalesing the 'good' and bringing us to the brink of hitting a reset button for our future and our legacy.
Do what makes you proud and be kind. This is coming from someone who has never been on Facebook or Twitter and is possibly a smart thing for you to do for Democracy. That kind of social media we can live without.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 20 - 11:20 PM

I am seeing more Biden signs in my neighborhood than Trump signs, and I live in what is considered a GOP stronghold. I hope they're so ashamed of their party and Trump that they aren't promoting the bastard (even if they vote for him on Nov. 3). Or they quietly vote for Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 02:36 AM

Stilly River Sage, I am glad to hear that. Since I am almost entirely home-bound(in self-isolation) I don't get to see campaign signs. I hope it's a good omen. What scares me is that if I were a secret 'admirer' of the trumpet I would be embarrassed to admit it publicly and therefore might not put up a tRump sign. God. I can hardly wait for Election Day and yet I am so scared.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Hrothgar
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 06:25 AM

In the absence of compulsory voting (which I think is the best thing in the Australian political system), it seems that one of the major factors going for Biden will be the number of people who won't vote for him, but can't bring themselves to vote for Trump again - who will abstain.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 07:10 AM

I wouldn't want compulsory voting.
People who were only voting in order to avoid a fine might just put their cross against some candidate without thinking about or even knowing what that candidate intended to do if elected.
An interesting alternative might be a box for a choice of 'None of the above'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 07:21 AM

Donuel - not just define your country, but define the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 07:27 AM

It might be more effective and more popular to combine elections with a free lottery.

The none of the above option opens the question, what do you do when that option gets the most votes. Rerun the election, and you still get the same result...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 09:46 AM

Voting is a duty.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 10:44 AM

I just read on youtube a comment from an anti-trumper who identifies as a "Christian", and who claims that "most Christians" (I know, I know) support trump because they see that as the way to hasten the "End Times" .... The poster was not being facetious, but explanatory.

It leaves me at a loss for words.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 04:43 PM

Random people were asked "How is Trump actimg?"
man: "He's acting like a crack head."
woman: He's acting cheesy and whines alot"
cowboy: "He'a acting like Yosemite Sam."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 06:18 PM

Who is enough of a glutton for punishment to watch the "debate" tonight? I'm thinking I'll stream some Netflix. I already voted, and the recapped details will be in the ether for a while afterwards.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 07:37 PM

The only reason to watch is so you'll know what everyone is yapping about for the next couple of days - for the public water-cooler talk, as it were. Or if you've been following the whole rigmarole the way you might a ridiculous sit-com, well, this is just the latest episode.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 10:11 PM

The debate, which I have been watching, has preempted my Star Trek show.

Got my first debate Bingo at 9:30 Mudtcat time. But I kinda cheated, like one square was Schools or Guns.

And "18 angry democrats" is a great name for a rock band. Thank you, Dave Barry, for that concept.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 07:36 AM

I'm a big Dave Barry fan.

Trump: WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?

Biden: Now you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 09:52 AM

Vote for Dull & Dreary , down with Dumb & Destructive.

Subject: BS: TRUMP WINS 2020 ELECTION
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 02:05 PM

YOU KNOW HE'S GONNA SAY HE DID even if he doesn't.
Can the Supream Court once again 'prove' it?
Unfortunately covid wins 2020.
Trump might win 200 electoral votes imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 04:16 PM

Trump's action, to blow past the COVID precautions at the White House, is apparently totally followed by Pence's office, where five people have come down with the infection. If someone hadn't leaked the news, they wouldn't have said anything about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 05:19 PM

Today, whilst I was driving back to the mental health clinic
(having gone to cast my vote in person),
I heard on the radio that Mister President
would be speaking at the airport rally
in Manchester, New Hampshire.
Whereupon

I resolved not to listen to the news again for the rest of my drive,
and focused on music station broadcasts instead.
Anyway, yes, I voted.
And my spiral notebook has on it
the little red white and blue sticker
that was given to everybody at Town Hall after voting.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Oct 20 - 05:54 PM

Trump is a working class NERO !

he only worked to con.

soon he'll be a zero

once he is good and gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 20 - 02:33 PM

https://brokeassstuart.com/2020/10/27/what-to-do-if-trump-refuses-to-concede/

Political sock puppets

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 07:52 AM

Where is "Spitting Image" when we need 'em? "Last Week Tonight" can't do the entire job by itself!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 01:35 PM

I can not see Trump ever going to the grocery store.
I can see Biden going to the ol General store and buying some calico for his wife, 50 lbs of flour and a warm Sarsaparilla drink.
Maybe a copy of Malarchy Monthly.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 04:37 PM

This is the kind of thing that matters. While tweets and shenanigans take our eyes off the ball, we elect folks who get to appoint many many judges and justices and weaken our non-partisan civil service.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 04:59 PM

"Where is "Spitting Image" when we need 'em? "

New series of Spitting Image is on BritBox.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 20 - 08:08 PM

It feels like we are in the days of Deathly Hollows part 2.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 20 - 08:01 AM

The former GOP is now the PWG PARTY of WHITE GRIEVENCE and faces a referendum. With Selecting Barbie Coney Barret for the SUPREME COURT the court is now 100% Catholic. I'm for diversity and am not anti catholic although I am anti cult.

I don't know if she is Mel Gibson's dad catholic or not. Signs point to extreme cultism as a member of People of Praise. Does she think the Spaniish Inquision had good people on both sides? I don't know. She wouldn't say. I get the feeling she is a classicly trained liar.

A solution is expanding a reformed court. Court packing sounds bad like Fudge packing.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 09:56 AM

If you are an ass hole who likes to out shout, show weapons, insult and disrespect others - there is MORE for you to do with Traffic.

https://nypost.com/2020/11/01/trump-caravans-snarl-traffic-on-garden-state-pkwy-mario-cuomo-bridge/

To be fair and balanced the left also fucks with traffic
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-35854279

The FBI is investigating how trump pick up truck caravans tried to run the Biden Harris bus off the highway.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Nov 20 - 04:59 PM

Um Kagan and Breyer are jewish...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 09:26 AM

Let the Don'l overflow of quickly written misinformative utterances proceed. When we learn to deal with it, we learn to deal with Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 06:16 PM

robomatic I am glad you still support freedom of speech and independant judgement of my supplied links. I pay close attention to your aeronautical posts, you are practically an amateur expert. I would like your opinions on canards but you seem hostile toward me again in an amusing way. You are sounding much the same as you did 20 years ago, but with a name like robomatic I expect repetition. Robo its time you present evidence for your claims if you want to regress back to your old flame war stance. Who knows, I might believe you. :^?

I assume Trump is still tweeting too.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Nov 20 - 07:03 PM

DonTrumpuel!

You are the replacement for the Chump. You post maybe truths and maybe falses and you take back nothing. It's a guessing game with you like the clock that doesn't run.

I am not hostile to you nor the other trump. I merely point out that your posts are haphazard as to truth and relevance.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 08:35 AM

It is debatable if Donald J Trump will EVER deliver a concession speech
but I have the exclusive copy of an initial concession speech approved by the President and written by Bannon and Miller. It was leaked to me by the White House Dry Cleaner who found this copy in a suit jacket along with a bottle of Viagra and steroids:

"Four score and seven votes short of victory shows fraud - but the only fraud is fraud itself. Nobody is a President like ME.
You are not going to have President Trump to be kicked around and fake newsed anymore because I will continue the cause to make my cause ME.      Everybody knows Biden was not born in this country and his son's emails in Ukraine will lock Joe up. -long pause- There is no Covid, only crazy doctors bribed to report fake deaths.
America, I love it, has ruthlessly attacked me and my family. January second is a date which will iive in infamy. This coup you must stand ready to fight in the bars, the churches the suburbs and the fields.
You know who to obey! Thank you."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 09:04 AM

page 2- one liners

Make America Great Again, If you are white you're right, If its too close to call its fraud, Antifa did it, You know in your heart you have to Trump, We'll see, Everybody says I'm number 1, Its all fake video and audio, I'm immune and so are you, Open America, open the brothels, the bars, the churches, the schools, the hospitals, Ther were good people on one side, reach for Bleach and Oxy, STOP THE VOTE...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 10:13 AM

...but only in states where I'm ahead...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 10:31 AM

btw, The dry cleaner was also blind and Ukrainian.

Stop the vote, continue the vote, massage the vote, pee on the vote... he is all over the place in the desperate bizarre death throws of 'winning fatigue' (the new Republican term for defeat).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 12:14 PM

Trump has no standing to in any way, shape, or form affect the states as they count their votes. And I've heard comments that the supposed lawsuits appear to have been written by a child, they don't address all of the features such as harm and remedy, that would normally be included in such documents.

Maybe he'll blow an aneurism and put us all out of our misery.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 09:54 PM

I ignored the news all day and just now turned on the news. I made the right decision.

I heard that Nevada is not releasing its totality of count until they hear the media pronounce their name correctly. ('vad' to rhyme with 'vat').

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 20 - 09:59 PM

nEWT gINGRICH, lEWANDOWSKI, mCcONNEL, jIM jORDEN AND hANNITY are all playing the victim card and are like lambs to the slaughter of vote stealing. They are appealing to the PEOPLE to rise up. I bet they will rise up long enough to find their remote.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 20 - 09:34 AM

Ted Cruz has added his voice to the fraud conspiracy. It seems all is forgiven for Trump's attack against Ted's wife and father.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 07:49 AM

No, I can't forget that evening
Or Fox News as votes were leaving
But I guess that's just the way the story goes
I always yell but in my eyes my anger grows
Yes, it grows
No, I can't forget tomorrow
When I think of all my sorrows
When I had the white house then they turned it off
And now it is not fair they turned off the power
The fucking power
I can't lie, if lieing is without power
I can't grift, I can't gripe any more
Can't live, if living is without TV
I can't tweet, I can't tweet any more
Well, I can't forget that evening
Or the disgrace of losing
But I guess that's just the…

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 09:07 PM

Fred Trump, Donald J.'s father, described
in Mary Trump's book as a sociopath,
owed much to Elisabeth, his widowed mother,
for bringing him into business in New York
after his father's death.
Fred was a minor, and needed Elisabeth's patronage (matronage??)
to get started.

When the formidable widow Elisabeth was elderly,
and her progeny successful,
she would go around to the Trump family residential properties,
proceed to the coin-operated laundry provided for tenants there,
and empty the coin-operated machines of their coins.

Whenever I wash my dirty laundry at
a coin-operated laundromat,
I shall remember the Trump dynasty, henceforth.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 09:45 PM

Robomatic, you cracked me up.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 03:13 AM

Trump has farted and thus departed, graffiti toilet wall 2020

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 05:35 AM

One thing the donald and his various GOP ass-kissers hasn't explained yet, in all of his lathered ranting about voter fraud, is why the perfidious Democrats deprived him of the presidency but didn't bother to ensure a Democratic majority in the senate while they were rigging the vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 06:41 AM

Pardon me, excuse me, pardon me, EXcuse me! PARDON ME

Trump is on the verge of pardoning HIMSELF!

It has never happened before and although this is only a prediction, pardons will be coming for his kids and cons. Who he does not pardon will be his vengeful punishment.

My prediction for Trump electoral votes was 207. It stands at 214. For Trump to successfully pardon himself is unlikely. Will he try? You betcha.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 11:55 AM

On self-pardons https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/explaining-the-presidential-self-pardon-debate

"Richard Nixon reportedly asked for an internal legal opinion about the option of a self-pardon towards the end of his presidency. The President’s lawyers said he had the power to issue a self-pardon, but Nixon declined to do so.

But just before Nixon’s resignation, the Justice Department Office of Legal Council issued its own memo on the subject, on August 5, 1974. “Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the President cannot pardon himself,” said Mary C. Lawton, Acting Assistant Attorney General."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 08:01 AM

This photo of Melanias's reaction to Donald on Veterans day shows me the terror she feels from his depression, rage and delusion over the election. ah oh

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Nov 20 - 08:45 AM

”This photo of Melanias's reaction to Donald on Veterans day shows me the terror she feels from his depression, rage and delusion over the election. ah oh”

Link doesn’t work - error code 401.

---

Replaced with working link. Yahoo images in "Melania 'distances' herself from Trump in Veterans Day photos" ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 04:37 PM

Trump is live from the Rose Garden on TV announcing the readiness of the vaccine (General distribution in April) and how it will not be shipped to New York for some reason until the New York Governor somehow approves it.

Odd that it's not the VP who is supposedly the titular head of the National response allowed to make such announcements. Furthermore, the white house website which usually airs live briefings is not airing this one.

The Trumpster sounds as addled as ever, quoting whatever figures he's cherry-picked for the 'now'.

First public speaking since the election, and still going on, so I don't know if he's going to take questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 06:31 AM

Has anyone heard of Trump's addiction to amphetamine - namely Adderall?
Noel Casler has plenty to say on the subject. And blames some of the antics on it. He says it stiffens the top lip and there are plenty of images that support the effect on Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 08:16 AM

Sorry. its already a famous photo

WHERE DOES TRUMP GO FROM HERE?
He is actually planning a streaming service to continue his omnipresence. Of course it will be an existing platform like Newmax that is to the right of Fox with its sister channel AHC (All Hitler Channel 24 7)
Programing will include segments like; Trumps Hip Hop tour of Alaska, Stormy Danials Rains, Diamond and Silk, The Greatest Trump tweets, Trumps Virgin birth AND Movies like 'Gone with the Wind', Birth of a Nation, Wall St., Greed is Good, Home Alone and lots of Mel Gibson movies. The streaming service will also serve as a Presidential Book-free Library.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 08:31 AM

I may even tune in to watch the show 'COD Piece' which covers the Conspiracy of the Day.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 10:08 AM

Mr. Red OMG that link with Noel Casler was so in depth I could not look away. The ugly truth was so odiferously horrific you can not do anything but stare for an hour.
That is one dangerous link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV9PJQUXsKM

It is like how one would believe a Private more than a General.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 03:48 PM

In the meantime, Fresh Air on Thursday had a show whose subject was the various ways that President (for the next couple months) Trump could yet impose his personality on things American and beyond:

what trump might do with his remaining weeks in office

It calls for a somewhat moderate strong stomach. Or, skip lunch first.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 04:18 PM

I'm not opening any links for which I might need a strong stomach.
It's bad enough seeing all these adverts for earwax - they really make me feel ill.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: meself
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 06:42 PM

Ah! Nice to know I'm not the only prissy one ... !

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 07:58 AM

Perhaps it is an obscure reference to what America should have done to Don long ago. Ear whacks

ie box his ears


OK, OK, I'll get my coat.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 20 - 08:18 AM

The FBI has reported an historic all time high in hate crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 02:51 PM

Trump is telegraphing to the Iranians and Taliban in Afghanistan that he's removing troops (even though the House, Senate, and Joint Chiefs of Staff don't want the change). Trump seems to be intent on getting more people killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 09:01 AM

Over hear we are not hearing much about the turnip in the news. Is it because he is now just sulking with his thumb stuck in his mouth, or is it because the turnip is now a nobody who tantrums are no longer newsworthy?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 09:07 AM

Silence is golden but it may only hide evil and not help stop it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 09:50 AM

I am reminded of accidentally dripping hot wax from a red candle onto one of my twins while making a jack-o-lantern, he must have been around 3. He yelps, I say sorry, and he looks at the red drops on his forearm and asked, is that blood? I said no, dear, it's candle wax. His little face screwed up and he wailed, but why did it whack meeeeee?
Thank you for that memory.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 12:14 PM

Trump says donors are paying for recounts - they aren't.
Re election $ goes directly to Trump (not the Republican party) for maga marches and endless rallies.
This is the age of brown shirts and political street violence, or so Trump hopes.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Elmore
Date: 19 Nov 20 - 10:01 PM

Madness. Trump and company have pushed me over the edge with their attempt to bully Michigan legislators into invalidating the presidential election. So, I did what any irate Democratic Socialist avowed agnostic 79 year old would; drank a half bottle of Scotch. and sent 25 bucks to Bobby Schuller for his 2021 Hour of Power calendar.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 08:31 AM

After trying to buy and or intimidate electoral college electors and state legislatures his denoument is the supreme court. ""Et tu Amy?""
The last hope is a Pentagon Coup but he only has some recently appointed loyalists there. Then its just him and his cell phone.

Out of power he still will have Trump TV and the Real American Taliban Militias.

ps I knew a Robert Mueller. He was the son of Heinrich Mueller the butcher of Cyprus.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 08:54 AM

I've been to Cyprus three times but can't speak for the butchers there. But I do know an excellent butcher in Benahadux in Almería province in Andalucía...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 12:11 PM

What about the ancient carved caves of Malta?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 12:35 PM

I'll go there one day and let you know. It's on the bucket list.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 20 - 05:46 PM

On the serious side, Florida and some other like minded states are introducing an EXPANDED 'stand your ground law' by making it a felony to block traffic BUT a person who kills people with a gun may be considered innocent under justifiable homocide law as long as they say they were protecting business' from protesters.

Technically you face 5 to 10 years for crossing the street while a killer with an AK can murder legally.

These laws remind me of the anti Juden laws in the 30's.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 06:45 AM

Just curious, at what point would a court make a distinction between the legitimacy of taking a pot shot to protect premises just because the business owner doesn't like the look of the protestor, and a protestor who is violently trying to gain entry to a premises.

Also, and more importantly, would a court apply the laws equally to a white supremacist protestor intimidating a business run by a black person.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 03:35 PM

Trump seems to want to continue to collect money from the public so has suggested he will run for office again in 4 years. So he may try to keep that militia of right-wing gun-toting lunatics stirred up (as a big chunk of his voting base).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 20 - 07:38 PM

Rittenhouse arrested for murder, the kid with an AK 47 at a protest, is out on 2 million dollars bail. I assume right wing $ is involved.
The problem with the street violence Trump wants to magnify is that Antifa is more of an illusion than a real organized movement like the Communists in Hitler's Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 09:43 PM

This odd fellow Nero was surely no hero
Drunk on wine and playing his lyre
While people were dying and Rome was on fire
And then there was Trump

Things got hairy under Queen Bloody Mary
A hag with a heart made of stone
London was grim and England quite scary
Gravediggers grew callouses trying to bury
All those she killed when she took the throne
And then there was Trump

And Marie Antoinette who infamously said
Shortly before she would soon lose her head
When told that the people were lacking in bread
Wondered why they didn't enjoy a nice pastry instead
And then there was Trump

Hitler and Stalin, God you should have seen 'em
A couple of Hell's wickedest demons
Who slaughtered tens of millions between 'em
And then there was Trump

When history tots up every foul evil ruler
From the imbecilic drooler
To the dumpster fire fueler
Trying to judge which was the crueler
Well then there was Trump

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Neil D
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 09:47 PM

Oh, by the way Donuel there was right wing $ involved in footing Rittenhouse's bail. It was Mike Lindell, the My Pillow guy and former child actor Ricky Schroder.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Nov 20 - 10:33 PM

Right now there is a 60 Minutes article about the large number of school-age kids who are 'off the grid' as in, they were in school last year, but haven't shown up in schools or on line, in the E-12 timeline. I'm not saying that our fearless leader is responsible for this. I am saying that the lack of organized response to our Covid Crisis that emanates from the top down has played a big part in a coming sub-population of non or under-educated citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 05:53 AM

What;s an E-12 - sounds like a food additive.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 06:00 AM

It looks like trump is in for a very active retirement and it won't be all tee times and liasons with pornstars.

WaPo

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 20 - 09:51 AM

Listing all the kindred spirits in style and substance would be all well and good but it is a talent I don't have with names, especially fake names. Critics are just as helpful in the long run but are names easier to remember probably due to 'threat memory'.

It does not feel like a world of right or wrong anymore.
It feels like SANE or INSANE.

Perhaps it has always been the case but its more obvious to me now.
I have always supported helping people regain their sanity...
But where and how do we profit to help Trump to regain a sanity he has never had? Sometimes there is no cure. I only know that truth and its delivery system humor, is an effective vaccine to stem the infection of insanity.

It is my belief more insanity is learned than are born with it.
Insanity itself is a pandemic. I repeat
Insanity itself has its own pandemic today.
Socially distancing ourselves from insanity has always been done.
When the insane gather on social media, infection spreads uncontrolably.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 08:20 AM

SPB-Cooperator: E-12 is a reference to U.S. educational progress of Elementary school through 12th grade, the final year of high school.

Apparently the Current Occupant's tweets have yielded a guarded concession to the idea of transition should all the bogus moves to reverse the actual election fail, which they are doing.

It's so hard to believe that there will be no repercussions to the myriad of Republican legislators and of course FOX bloviaters who have basically lambasted the orderly progression of American institutions. There seems to be no sense of the ludicrous or even basic irony between what they have alleged of the other side and what they are performing in broad daylight right now, seeking to overturn popular votes, insisting that there is evidence without any citations of evidence. Accusing everyone but themselves of base motives.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 20 - 06:56 PM

Bannon awaits his trial regarding fraud
Trump awaits charges from NYS

After that it looks like prosecution for others will be up to the voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Nov 20 - 09:02 PM

Flynn, former national security advisor and agent for Turkey, got a presidential pardon via tweet.

Subject: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 02:09 PM

More executions - what a shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 02:38 PM

How long before one of his own inner team
stealthily sneaks up from behind and permanently turns his lights out...???

".. Et tu, Brute?.."...

Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 02:55 PM

I've seen enough to believe Trump and his Republican toadies want people to die, to lose their health insurance, and homes, and want the country, and every good thing we've ever stood for destroyed. I think it's treason, but nobody who CAN do anything about it has the guts to.

Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Helen
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 04:02 PM

I think the people around him are distancing themselves from him by just quietly melting away into the shadows. They don't want to associate with someone with a big L for Loser branded on his forehead.

I thought I couldn't be shocked by anything else that he could do, but approving executions in his presidential lame duck period is the lowest of the low. How low can he go after this?

And I don't know who is on his executions list but I have read that generally Black people are disproportionately represented on the list of people due to be executed.

Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 05:27 PM

Perhaps he's a paranormal potusgiest

Subject: RE: BS: Is trump becoming an even bigger shit?
From: Helen
Date: 10 Dec 20 - 06:30 PM

Or COTUS? (Centre of the Universe Syndrome)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 02:04 AM

PFR, I did suggest a long time ago that if the turnip wanted to find his way into the record books, it couldn't go wrong by having a stab at breaking Harrison's record.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 08:20 AM

executions since July

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 05:45 PM

OK trump has 6 hours to sign a senate bill to keep the government open for one more week. He wouldn't want to close down the Supream Court would he?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:03 PM

From Don's link to the LA Times:

Starting in July, the Trump administration ended what had been a 17-year hiatus in the federal death penalty. The president quickly became the most executing president in a century as well as for most executions for any president in one year. As of Friday, he has overseen nine fatal injections at the federal prison in Terre Haute, Ind. All the while, of course, the White House has shown nothing but indifference to the deaths of nearly 300,000 from the COVID-19 pandemic.

Four more executions are set to take place before Biden takes office in January. Biden, not incidentally, has promised to work to end the death penalty altogether.

The latest Trump-ordered killing happened Thursday evening. Brandon Bernard’s execution was undertaken so recklessly that even lawyer Alan Dershowitz, usually a Trump defender, protested. Keeping up with newly minted prison reformer Kim Kardashian West, Dershowitz asked that Trump commute Bernard’s death sentence to life in prison without parole.

Dershowitz and Kardashian West rightly pointed out that Bernard was only 18 when he burned evidence in a failed carjacking that ended in two grisly murders. The jurors and prosecutors who convicted Bernard of murder now believe his sentence was unjust because his reasoning in 1999 was that of a minor and his participation in the actual murders is unclear.

If there’s even a hint of a doubt about a death row prisoner’s conviction, clemency should be granted. But that’s assuming a rational president with a micron of decency. Instead we have Trump.

Everything has to be taken to extremes with this sociopath.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:59 PM

4.1 percent of death row prisoners are proven innocent.
10 to 20% are reasonably innocent but technicalities and representation does not allow for truth to enter the process of justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:30 PM

It's OVER. The Supreme Court tossed out the Texas lawsuit.

And the FDA approved the vaccine and is trying to explain that they did it the right way, not just because at the last minute Trump got impatient and threatened the FDA head with firing or having to quit if he didn't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:36 PM

Is trump going to be this petulant & litigative with the grim reaper and satan,
pathologically in denial that he died...???

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM

pfr, now there's a story for Terry Pratchett - if he was still here with us. Just imagine what sort of crazy situations and plotlines TP would have invented.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 06:27 PM

That storyline was used during/after Joe McCarthy with a twist on a LP called the Investigator.

Trump will become a twisted bitter sore loser except to his fanatics who feel the pangs of losing all to well.

True evil does not know how evil it is.
Even Hitler was a dog lover in his way but Trump holds dogs in contempt and involks the word dog for his most hated enemies.
Even the Grinch was a dog lover if you recall.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 07:13 PM

The Electoral College vote is supposedly officially in. Once again: It's Over. How many times are we gonna have to repeat it that way?

Trump and his yidiots have also 'officially' lost over 50 court cases.

This reminds me of something (almost) completely different.

In the Spring of 1945, German soldiers were fighting British and American forces on the West of Germany, and of course the Soviet Russians were coming in from the Eastern Front. One would think that the German attitude would be to surrender to the West and appeal for cessation of hostilities to avoid the worst that was about to come from the East. But a good German soldier was bound to resist to the last. So he felt obligated to fire every bit of his ammo into the Brits and Americans. Only when the bullets and grenades and shells were gone, he could honorably stand up hands up. Apparently many times to be surprised by enraged allies gunning him down.

This is sort of what the Replicants are doing: feeling that this is the last stage of a war and every avenue, from desperate to ludicrous, must be trod down.

And ludicrous it certainly is.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 03:18 AM

Is this fake news or is it serious?

I would expect no more and no less of him but - seriously!!??

Scroll halfway down the page.

Trump tweaks showerhead regulation to make hair 'perfect'

The Trump administration has relaxed a regulation restricting water flow from showerheads.

It's a pet peeve of President Donald Trump, who complained that he wanted more water to make his hair "perfect".

Since 1992, federal law has dictated that showerheads shouldn't spew more than 9.5 litres of water a minute. As newer shower fixtures came out with multiple nozzles, the Obama administration updated the ruling, stating that 9.5L was still the limit regardless of how many nozzles were running.

The new ruling from the Energy Department, issued on Tuesday, now says each showerhead can emit 9.5L a minute.

"So showerheads — you take a shower, the water doesn't come out," Mr Trump said last summer.

    "You want to wash your hands? The water doesn't come out. So what do you do? You just stand there longer or you take a shower longer? Because my hair — I don't know about you, but it has to be perfect. Perfect."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 12:38 PM

It certainly echoes a Seinfeld episode that the Current Occupant may have seen.

When that person was behind a podium in the warmer weather of earlier in the year, the light passed right through his perfect coif and for a few moments we could see that when bereft of hair, he bore a striking resemblance to Ed Asner.*


*Sorry about that, Ed!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM

He's busy trying to throw obstacles in the way of Biden undoing his bad works. Meanwhile, there is a group of Democrats suggesting that Biden should, with the stroke of a pen, forgive $50,000 of school loan debt from Americans. The trouble is, that's not necessarily a durable or legal fix. Just because Donald did this by executive order - that should be a cautionary warning. Biden would prefer that the Congress affect that change, then it's legal and on the books the way it should be. We've had enough of this royal fiat nonsense that Trump wanted to continually deploy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 07:00 AM

The Covid relief bill has poison pill additions such as making it difficult to make a new Treasury secretary from suppling more aid. Also unemployment insurance was cut 25% from 16 weeks tp 12 weeks, direct checks are cut from 1,200 to 600 dollars, 100 billion dollar tax cut for corportions and less help for those facing eviction.
Trump will not sign the Defense budget and wants more say in the relief bill.

On the funny side Mara lago neighbors have shown that Trump signed a contract saying he can not reside at Mara Lago more than 3
consecutive weeks in order to make it a private club.
He will have to go to Doral (eww bedbugs) or probably a mansion formerly owned by a cocaine kingpin.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 09:54 AM

The Covid relief bill carves out a bailout for 17,000 airline jobs but nothing for 3 million restaurant workers.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Dec 20 - 06:06 PM

The DH and I have been watching Antiques Roadshow on YouTube in the evenings, and that has made me antiques-conscious.

I have sent e-mails to my senator and representative, asking them to take steps to make sure Trump and his associates don't walk out of the White House with fine antiques that belong to the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Dec 20 - 08:47 AM

White House dicussions with General Flynn include ordering martial law
in Trump States seizing voting machines to be adjusted correctly and having a do over election. Carl Rove has claimed that vote counters flushed Trump votes during their bathroom breaks. Some people had as many as 4 bathroom breaks. When interviewed one man said he had a double dump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 20 - 09:48 AM

Karl Rove had the idea... back when... that with careful Gerrymandering and legal tricks, the system could be designed to create a 1000 year Reich Republicaneich.

   He failed for obvious reasons, but that wish/goal/concept still lives as a substitute for 'the will of the majority'. Combating it resembles combating new viruses.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Dec 20 - 02:50 PM

Karl Rove , for those who don't know, appeared in the movie Indiana Jones and the ark of the the covanent'
He was the guy who burned his hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 12:48 PM

I doubt if anyone will see this but no one knows if the government is shut down or not, not even the people whose job it is to know and issue instructions.
What is known is that the Senate has left town and Donald is off to Mara Lago to possibly never return.
Before leaving he put the Covid Relief Bill into cryro sleep by saying he wants 2 grand for everyone and not just 600 dollars relief. Neither the budget or relief bill has been signed.

Many people in the White House have quit and the threat of putting all civil service workers on Schudule F which means they can be fired with no cause, have already quit.

I'm not joking.

Living on a government paycheck no longer means security.
With 28 days to go we are in a perfect storm of LIMBO.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 01:01 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/12/23/trump-go-mar-lago-holiday-traffic-5-things-know-wednesday/3931007001/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 02:15 PM

I just poked around Google Maps - Mar-a-lago is a straight shot east of the Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach. And that golf club is just across the street from the Palm Beach County Main Detention Center. Maybe Trump can get day passes out to golf if they arrest him.

One reason he probably moved his official residence to Florida is because of their way-generous policy of letting people who are bankrupt keep a whole bunch of stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 08:41 PM

ha ha ha ha a local neighborhood detention center

Is it really alarmist to say government shut down out loud?
Lincoln closed Congress for 6 months. Trump could do some damage
to the country with no end in sight.

D day is monday.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 20 - 10:00 PM

Donald has VETOED the Defense Bill and has threatened the Omnibus relief bill with a possible veto..
Sorry Pentagon no Xmas for you

Monday is still the designated gov shutdeown day if no signiture is given.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Dec 20 - 05:13 AM

I forgot about the pocket veto which would put the relief budget bill dead after 10 days * except for Sunday. Deliberation would have to begin again at a new Congres. ???

The Defense bill veto could simply be over ridden.

January 6th Trump invited all his Nazi nuts to demonstrate in DC

I don't know how a government shut down effects these events in this limbo cliff hanger.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Dec 20 - 10:56 AM

I wonder what kind of tantrum he'll pitch when [if?] they override the veto.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Dec 20 - 04:25 PM

Attorney General Barr is being highlighted in the news now.
He's done some despicable things this past term.
God help us if things go from bad to worse in his department.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Dec 20 - 06:46 PM

The only way Trump can hit the 270 number is to lose 50 pounds.
Its tragic and ridiculus to even have to speak of the Donald.
Being so ridiculous he makes serious political commentators sound ridiculous and comedians sound serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 20 - 03:46 PM

You suppose he'll try to beat his own record? He shut down the government for 30plus days once before.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Dec 20 - 05:32 PM

Congress passed a law to make sure they still get paid during a shutdown. Some government workers won't be paid.

Look at it this way, he finally will fire everybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 20 - 06:18 AM

After hours of irrational tweets berating Congress, Sopreme Court and others, he did sign late last night. Crises of his own making averted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Dec 20 - 11:36 PM

Veto being overriden...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 20 - 03:37 PM

If Bill Murry had been there when President Trump was first being briefed on the global pandemic, we could have avoided a quarter million lives.

Bill Murry: "This is going to be real hell fire sir, Biblical destruction, cats and dogs living togethe...

Trump: What can I do?

Bill Murry: "Mr. President, if you lock this thing down with every possible precaution...Donnie, you could save the lives of four million registered voters..."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 20 - 01:06 PM

Two days ago the newly elected R-congressman from Louisiana died of COVID-19, aged 41. Today I read that a newly elected congresswoman from Florida has tested positive and can't be sworn in on Sunday. (Here.) They may just kill themselves off by disregarding health and safety recommendations. "Salazar, a Republican, said on Twitter she was admitted to a local hospital with heart arrhythmia, commonly known as an irregular heartbeat, on December 23, before being tested for Covid-19. That test came back positive, she said."

And today, there is this: Joe Biden to have new Secret Service team amid concern about Trump loyalty

Although staffing changes are typical, several incidents reportedly contributed to the heightened concerns from Biden’s allies that some agents and officers might be loyal to Trump.

Some members of the president’s detail reportedly urged their colleagues not to wear masks during trips, for example – despite the federal government’s official guidance on Covid-19 – as Trump himself disparaged mask-wearing and held out for months before being seen wearing one in public.

In what was described as an “unprecedented” move, the Secret Service had permitted former detail leader Anthony Ornato to temporarily leave his role and serve as White House deputy chief of staff.

Ornato was among the coordinators of the June photo op for which Trump marched through Washington DC’s Lafayette Square to stand with a Bible – after peaceful protesters were forced from the area by troops on federal order, sparking uproar in political circles as well as among the public.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 31 Dec 20 - 01:31 PM

SRS, that seems like a sensible move by Biden. It would be a tricky situation, trying to work out who to trust and who are the rats in the ranks.

And I have been thinking exactly the same thought about Trunp's supporters: "They may just kill themselves off by disregarding health and safety recommendations."

On another note, this song kept popping into my head over the last couple of weeks. I finally worked out why.

He's making a list,
And checking it twice;
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice.
Trumpty-Dumpty's pardoning his friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Jan 21 - 04:23 AM

It seems to me that the Orange One is edging awfully close to inciting insurrection.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jan 21 - 05:16 AM

Oops. Typo. Trump - not Trunp, although Trunp might be a Freudian slip related to truncated, i.e. a truncated stay in the White House.

Ebbie, I just read a couple of news items hinting that Trump returned to Washington because he might be plotting to challenge the final sign-off on the electoral college votes. Not a surprise, really but its success probably depends on how many of his supporters are still steadfastly in place on his sinking ship.

I'm still hoping he gets evicted as a trespasser when his time is up in the White House. I'm also hoping it is televised.

I also keep wondering how long it will be before Hollywood immortalises this whole saga and which political direction the fiction will veer towards.

The giant Trump-baby balloon seems more and more relevant the longer this saga continues. He certainly does not appear to be behaving as a mature, responsible adult but more like a tantrum throwing spoilt brat.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 21 - 03:53 PM

I agree, Helen - I hope his eviction is televised. And I hope the National Archives are able to save all of the papers and records and files that his gang are no doubt destroying as fast as they can.

I look forward to reading about what the incoming administration finds and shares about Trump, but not to the point that nothing gets done. We could use a short time to wallow in the "we knew they were up to no good" news, then move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jan 21 - 08:51 PM

The news of this weekend and this Monday is redolant of the phonecall that trump made to the Georgia elections official entreating/ suggesting/ recommending that the officals either negate their state vote tallies or amend them to give Trump a majority. He wasn't fussy about what actual numbers they would develop so much as they gave him a majority of one or more.
Story here.

So it's another phone call. It is suborning illegal activity, possibly perjury, and is totally equivalent to the kind of crap he tried to pull with the President of Ukraine, and didn't get away with.

Let's see how fast we can do another impeachement trial...Just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 21 - 02:05 AM

Tonight on one of the MSNBC talking head shows a pundit with Supreme Court case experience said that the suggestion he be impeached in the next two weeks isn't illogical - it would establish the fact that he can't run for office again if he is found guilty this time. That would be worth the turmoil, otherwise he'll be a perpetual bad penny, coming back again and again any time he can gin up enough media attention with antics, attached to the threat to run for office in four years.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jan 21 - 04:29 AM

Yes, Stilly River Sage, that was Neal Katyal; I wouldn't mind seeing him as Biden's Attorney General, except that I already have a couple of other highly qualified people in mind for that position. The Democrats have a plethora of wonderful candidates for just about every post, so different from the dregs from which the Orange One chose.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 21 - 06:36 PM

Fortunatly for all of us, Trump is a coward compared to Hitler. In the same position as Trump when Adolf was made chancellor by "senators" who thought they could control a useful idiot corporal, they did not forsee another coup and murder of fellow politicals.
If Twitchy the proud boy kills at the behest of Trump's wild days (Jan6) declaration its not on Donald. I doubt if Trump could shoot a disloyal Pense in the balls on 5th ave. either. A self pardon is too iffy. :^/
Could the Godfather contract a hit on Joe? Its a quantum universe.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 05:31 AM

Killing Biden (a new book title for that sleaze who was fired by Fox News?) won't alter the fact that trump's term ends on the 20th, unless they figure out a way to use the constitution for tinder.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM

Tkank you Mr.Trump. Thank you Mr. McConnell.
With your help by Sedition and cutting Covid relief by 70%
a Black, a Jew and a Woman's deciding vote has allowed
Democrats to take over the Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM

Neal Katyal - I knew his name, just not how to spell it. I do wish MSNBC would put up the names of people on those split screens.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 01:01 PM

5,000 maskless people gathered to hear Trump outside today.

The loudest cheer came when Donald said BULLSHIT.
After an hour of bitter sore loser rants the crowd started going from foot to foot. They all had to pee. This body language was lost on Trump

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 02:31 PM

The President has been egging on his crowd to attack the capitol building. No yolk, they did and a few hundred got in. The Senators and Congressmen adjourned. Reporting is scrambled.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 02:50 PM

BBC radio news played a recording of a Trump supporter today describing his president, Donald Trump, as the 'Lord Jesus Christ'.
I find that scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM

There is no coordinated police response to the capitol attack.
The few that were there were beaten back. They must be those good people Trump talks about. There is an armed stand off inside the front door

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:19 PM

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/congress-electoral-college-vote-count-2021/h_4802bd3869eb3a4bc6512083add579df



I've seen pictures of guns drawn as a window is breached.
I have seen pictures of a protester sitting in Pense's Senate chair.

Subject: RE: BS: A Changed USA Senate!
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:28 PM

So the Trumper morons have stormed the capitol. Much discussion a out what should be done. I'm fine with shooting the ones in there, and also the ones swarming the white house. At the very least, prosecute them all - every last one - as traitors. Perhaps the president, too. Impeach his ass - NOW.

(And they were bitching a bout Antifa.)

---

I moved this into this thread to hopefully limit having multiple threads talking about the same insurrection. -mod (JC)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM

Now its more violent. At least one person has been shot

There is no National Guard that the mayor called for days ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:44 PM

It seems the US military could be considered an internal terrorist training cult..???

How to deradicalise their extreme right wing brainwashing
when military personnel
retire to become civilians again...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:52 PM

The military has no fucking thing to do with this. I'm ex-military, and have friends who've retired. As far as I know, we're all pretty much dedicated to the way the country is supposed to be. Oddly enough, everyone I know voted for Obama, too. The "brainwashing" also has something to do with getting people to think the military is right-wing.
The National Guard has been called in to help end it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 03:56 PM

Treason, rebellion, sedition is being well demonstrated today.

These are not patriots they are modern day nazi brown shirts acting on orders of their Feurer.

This is not a peaceful transfer of power.
In two hours it will be dark. Maybe then police can be called.
I wonder how this would look If black lives matter occuppied the capitol, broke the windows and stormed the offices.
Good people on both sides huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 04:12 PM

Right now Joe Biden is on national TV calling it 'insurrection'.

Other than that, I recommend that folks not take to reporting their take on what is happening. A lot of what is being posted is more fear than fact.

What is being lost, and has been over the past years, is a willingness to arbitrate our disagreements by discussion and a willingness to accept the decency of our opponents.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 04:28 PM

The USA should be run by a Council of Native Americans & those who don't like it can repatriate to Europe, Africa, etc. The Trump family, e.g., may choose Scotland or Slovenia; & Biden has said "I'm Irish"; my WalkaboutsVerse poem on "Land Rights"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 04:28 PM

Jeri - just offering a sarcastic UK perspective..

We tend to see mainly [purported] US Vets
presenting armed to the teeth extremist 'patriot' right wing youtube videos...

Biden just asked sadly how the rest of the world see you...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 04:46 PM

WashPo reports someone shot, at the Capitol. Great.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 05:39 PM

I am watching local news. I see the Trump mob attacking and chasing AP and other news crews away abbandoning their equipment like expensive large cameras, microphones and electronic cases yelling :enemies of the people. Some was looted but the remaining equipment was being stomped on.
robo sigh, don't be a fool. You are too smart for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 05:41 PM

Funny I have not seen a single arrest.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 05:51 PM

The GOOD news is that floor staff acted on their own and hid the official electoral ballots (in 3 beautiful wooden trunks and other boxes) before the mob broke into the Senate chamber.
They have NOT been vandalized or burned.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 06:13 PM

If none of those rioters are arrested for sedition then there is some kind of inside nonsense going on to protect them. And it was too easy for the rioters to get control of the capitol - who was in charge of security for all of this?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 06:29 PM

OK, Punky - my bad. I'm probably taking everything too seriously just now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 06:38 PM

There were far too many idiots out there to manage mass arrests. Perhaps some were. Some folks were tear gassed and pepper-sprayed. I saw vans & buses coming & going... but the main goal was to get everything secured.
Curfew in place since 6PM.
Congress swears they will reconvene somewhere and finish their business.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 06:46 PM

This is far from over. There will undoubtedly be an investigation as to how the Capitol was breached by protestors. Someone was apparently shot by law enforcement and I have heard on the radio that they expired.

But let's not lose focus, as the current occupant and his extreme partisans (and DonTrumpuel) would have us do:

The latest Trump Action and Effect:

His tireless campaign to reelect two Georgia (Republican) Senators has resulted in the narrow but confirmed election of two Democratic Senators and a crack at a Biden Presidency with a Democratically effective Senate and House.

Yes, Virginia, there IS a Sanity Claus!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 07:05 PM

dear robo, do you have any evidence or proof that I have ever incited anyone to do anything? Your misinformation chestnut has spoiled and would be dangerous for anyone to eat.

Stilly I have avoided using the i word (inside job)
Moreso there was at least two weeks of planning by the proud boys. A small 5,000 crowd at the white house was joined from many side streets to 30,000 by the time people reached the capitol.

I do not blame the capitol police. They are trained to handle a lone gunman or small cadre. The windows and side doors of the capitol building are old and easily breached. Your average small bank has unbreakable windows.

The building is now called secure. It is not yet cleared for use but Pelosi is determined to resume tonight.











i

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 07:28 PM

Anyone else willing to pretend none of those maskless 'patriots' who broke into the capital were infectious? I hope they have a can of Lysol.

So far no zip tie arrests even for people carrying off government property or media equipment. hmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:22 PM

DonTrumpuel:

You are simply the anti-Trump Trump. You peddle stuff that maybesometimes is allied to reality but by no means is guaranteed. Your successive post-on-posts does not contribute to the light. And it encourages a lot of cats to follow the laser pointer instead of the point.

Along with Trump you remind us that man must not completely lose his sense of smell.

For those who want current facts there is the current news. All DonTrumpuel does is repeat some of the one, or maybe add to some of the repeated stuff, or maybe not. I take it as observational and it is not always a dead loss. But sometimes it's a waste of time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:40 PM

This was not street theatre. This was an insurrection organized and orchestrated by a sore loser and these were his supporters who identify with him as sore losers as well. This kind of violent protest cannot be tolerated in a democratic society.

It's especially hard for me to watch because I've been in much larger protests, 400,000 marching in Washington in 1969, but we never stormed the Capitol or even the White House. We shook our fists and passed on by.

The last four years have been very sad, and now we are beginning 2021 on an even sadder note.

Only Trump is beaming from ear to ear. The SOB has done it again.

Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:49 PM

Well, we're hearing some Republican retreat. First, the President of the Senate, Mike Pence, and just now, fresh from her defeat in her Georgia re-election campaign, Kelly Loeffler, who just made a rather heartfelt speech saying that she intended this morning to object to the certification of some delegates (to the Electoral College) but is not going to do so now.

Not a sea change. Yet. But by now maybe some Republicans are sensing diminishing returns of their Trumpallegiance.

Ah, the reliable motivation that remains! Self interest!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 10:12 PM

items on our national news - US politics live update
Twitter, Instagram & facebook have limited Donald Trump's account
White House Press Secretary Sarah Matthews has resigned
The First Lady's chief of staff has resigned over the violence in the Capitol

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 10:27 PM

Oscar Wilde observed:

"America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence without an intervening period of civilization."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 11:06 PM

Oscar Wilde was funny,
so was the Princess Bride quote "Good luck storming the castle".
Much more video is now released from the chaos inside the capitol.
Some Republicans have bailed but the rest of the objectors have doubled down. I have not editorialized these events at length, if at all, but if I did in one sentence it would be that democracy is better when it comes from everyone instead of from one shameful person like Trump.

PS robo, to see history repeat itself, you have to know history.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 11:20 PM

The quote is HAVE FUN storming the castle. Philistine.

I joke, because, today.

Wow. I have been embarrassed by my government, and by my fellow Americans, before... but this is cringe-worthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 11:55 PM

I think I’m starting to see lizard people.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:25 AM

Don does have a point in all of that - even as I watched the crowds rush the Capitol, I was also astonished at the number of people who still don't get it about wearing masks and maintaining their distance. Today was certainly a super spreader event. And now the house and senate are in on large room that had a bunch of non-distancing people in it earlier in the day, touching, breathing, and who knows what in there. Is the air filtration and the cleaning crew so good and swift that they were able to remove some of the excess hazard introduced into the room? Germs and guns.

Double-entendre there.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:39 AM

Is Trump more cunniing that he first appears?
is he doing this to show and warn that he is too big to be impeached, to show that when he leaves office he has the power to still cause mayhem if he is prosecuted?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:03 AM

Who the hell knows what goes on in the mind of trump, he's clearly gone around the bend and deserves to be arrested for inciting rebellion as soon as it's legally possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:21 AM

He's also a goddam coward, when exhorting the mob to move on the capital he said "I'll be right there with you" before slinking back to the White House to watch the riot in comfort and saftey.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:27 AM

"the Capitol", doh.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM

With all due respect Gilly we know insanity when we see it.
We know the face of hate, racism and cowardice.

This was diagnosed and predicted. Now it is witnessed by everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:57 AM

With due respect you'd address me as gilly, trumpuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM

If he is not arrested the USA will have lost the respect of the world for a generation.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

trump may be immune from prosecution at this point but there's no reason that Rudy, Mo Brooks and trump jr. shouldn't be brought up on sedition charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 08:27 AM

#lockhimup

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:32 AM

After 100 years I know Americans very well. It has been a racist society for hundreds of years. Rightwing mobs, lynch mobs, murderous police mobs, racial massacre mobs are excused and given a nod while the left is considered dangerous, communist, godless and nigger lovers.

This is who we have been. Somtimes you have to wait for the old bastards to die off but tribalism has deep roots. The new confederacy in all its manifstaions is the old might makes right barbarism.
You are the bystander. When ever you hear "whatever" it is a passive supporter. If you hear "we love trump" it is an active supporter.

Most of you are old dogs and can't learn many new tricks. I can only hope you will not allow yourself to get tricked. Thats why I begin and end with the truth. The truth in history repeating it self, the truth of who we are andin who we are and what the alttrnatives can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:44 AM

I try ignore your untethered, condescending, scatter-brained horseshit but it gets difficult at times.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM

i do not think he will be impeached , i hope i am wrong, Trump may be corrupt but so are many others , if trump is impeached he might expose others.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM

Something needs to be done because he can wreak a lot of havoc in the next 13 days. No one should be above the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:40 AM

American Airlines decided to stop serving booze on flights to and from dc as passengers were being belligerent about politics.

I bet nothing will happen to these particular politically belligerants.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM

I think it was David Axlerod on CNN last night who related that Mitt Romney flies alone in coach and earlier this week was accosted on a flight back to D.C. by trumpophiles chanting "traitor".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM

The video of that incident is being shown on BBC-TV News today, gilly. Disgusting aggression and bullying.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:48 AM

"Do not call what’s happening in Washington a protest. It’s a white supremacist insurrection, a seditious attack on democracy. This riot is yet another battle in a Civil War that has never ended, one that generations of white people have waged through lynchings, murder, intimidation, oppression, odious policies, and systemic racism.
"This is what President Trump — who should be arrested for inciting violence, never mind impeached again — wanted. He’s never cared about America, and he’d rather watch this nation burn than see it led by anyone else. Of course, the blame for this riot cannot end at the Oval Office.
"May it forever stain every Republican who refused to acknowledge Joe Biden as the president-elect. Let it shroud every GOP legislator who turned Trump’s loser pity party into a pointless effort to thwart the will of 81 million voters. Speak with shame the names of the men and women who fought against democracy and tried to pervert voter engagement into voter fraud. They own this horror, each and every one of them."

-- The Boston Globe, January 7, 2021

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM

I thought I would never say, good for you Mark Zuckerberg.
(trump banned on facebook)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 12:41 PM

I'm glad the globe and I see eye to eye.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:13 PM

25th Amendment...???

Mussolini and Ceau?escu might agree that's letting trump off lightly...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:14 PM

Today on The Takeaway (NPR) they spoke about the lack of arrests of domestic terrorists. One of the guests remarked that (paraphrasing) we need to look at police from the context of who they are there to protect compared to who they are there to control.

There's a reason why rioters were taking selfies with the local police. There's a huge problem of the affiliation of white supremacist groups in police forces around the country.

Yesterday it was VP Pence who called the National Guard, not Trump. There were several things Pence had to do because Trump wouldn't. Meanwhile, Ivanka was referring to domestic terrorists as "patriots." She'll look great in orange, especially once her roots grow out.

Trump needs to be removed from office, if only for the humiliation of the act. Impeach him, declare him incompetent and remove him. Just get his fat ass out of there.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM

events so far

After 4 years of trying every legal civilized remedy in the book
it looks like the Democrats are going to have to resort to the extreme

strongly worded letter.


After 100 years (I knew my grandparents story) I know Americans very well. It has been a racist society for hundreds of years. Rightwing mobs, lynch mobs, murderous police mobs, racial town massacre mobs are excused and given a nod while the left is considered dangerous, communist, godless and nigger lovers.

This is who we have been. Sometimes you have to wait for the old bastards to die off but tribalism has deep roots. The new confederacy in all its manifestations is the old 'might makes right' barbarism.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 02:59 PM

The last thing you need is a protracted show trial. Send him to Elba. Pool, pets, but no phone...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 03:16 PM

Yebbut he was never able so he could not say the palindrome

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM

So you are saying there is only one answer

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 03:54 PM

They can race through the impeachment process if they need to - we all know what is being discussed here. Up until yesterday the phone call to Georgia was an impeachable offence, but this one yesterday was on film and we can see the cause and effect - once he's out, the cowardly GOP members don't need to fear so much. Except their voters in their next elections.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 04:40 PM

That's Pelosi's plan. If they succeed it means he can never run for ANY office and the $ he has made for reelection will cease.
His legal exposure is to the states.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:51 PM

So, it seems the woman shot dead was a right wing military vet..

No surprise, then..

It's what we Brits have been lead to expect of the profile for trump militia activists...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:14 PM

You yanks have many a conundrum. Try to impeach him and fail: he wins in 2024, no sweat. Charge him with wotever: a long-winded and extremely damaging show trial that gives succour to his followers. Do nothing: he's a lethal pain in the arse forever. God knows, but, as you're yanks, you'll decide wrong, as ever. You'd all better start praying for his ill-health. Or wonder, in hope, whether Lee Harvey Oswald really did die...

There are terrible worries for the next 13 days. But there are terrible worries for many years to come. Half of your Republicans still want to overturn a free and fair election in which the winner got there by six million votes. But Trump's 70 million are not going anywhere anytime soon. If only you'd fixed your stupid electoral college before 2016. But isn't hindsight a wonderful thing...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:22 PM

I am purposely not going to try and remember the actual quote. It has to do with history repeating itself, (which it doesn't really do):

-History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce-

So what's occurring to me today it the storming of the Bastille versus what happened yesterday, which doesn't yet have a convenient label.

The storming of the Bastille probably had a lot of weapons drawn and led to the fall of the French monarchy.

Yesterday's affair led to the exposure of the extreme right wing Trumpistas as truly pathetic and sad.

Trump seems to have ultimately been a pot-stirrer but a rather directionless one, in that he is dedicated to no principle, just himself. As such he has not made anyone happy, just reinforced pre-existing discontent and prejudice.

Many of the talking heads have gone on about the unprecedented nature of this 'occupation' but I think other potential 'rhymes' might be when Andrew Jackson had an inaugural party where he opened the White House to the public
and they apparently trashed it. While there are some similiarities between Andrew Jackson and President Sierra Foxtrot Bravo, I think that at least Jackson had principles and showed signs of being a man prior to his election. This is not an endorsement of Jackson, I am in favor of dropping him from the currency.

Democracy is not for sissies, and is no guarantee of eternal success. Right now I'm thinking of Paul Simon's song: "American Tune".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:31 PM

"Yesterday's affair led to the exposure of the extreme right wing Trumpistas as truly pathetic and sad."

Lament as much as you like, but he's still here, like a big cancer. As for not making anyone happy, after four years he got 70-odd million votes, more than most previous winners. Au contraire, he appears to have made unprecedented numbers of people happy. That's the big problem you'll be dealing with for many years to come, and you may not solve it...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 08:16 PM

American Tune

Many's the time I've been mistaken
And many times confused
Yes, and I've often felt forsaken
And certainly misused
But I'm all right, I'm all right
I'm just weary to my bones
Still, you don't expect to be
Bright and bon vivant
So far away from home, so far away from home

And I don't know a soul who's not been battered
I don't have a friend who feels at ease
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered
or driven to its knees
But it's all right, it's all right
For we've lived so well so long
Still, when I think of the road we're traveling on
I wonder what's gone wrong
I can't help it, I wonder what's gone wrong

And I dreamed I was dying
I dreamed that my soul rose unexpectedly
And looking back down at me
Smiled reassuringly
And I dreamed I was flying
And high up above my eyes could clearly see
The Statue of Liberty
Sailing away to sea
And I dreamed I was flying

We come on the ship they call the Mayflower
We come on the ship that sailed the moon
We come in the age's most uncertain hour
and sing an American tune
But it's all right, it's all right
You can't be forever blessed
Still, tomorrow's going to be another working day
And I'm trying to get some rest
That's all, I'm trying to get some rest

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:54 PM

Lament as much as you like, but he's still here, like a big cancer. As for not making anyone happy, after four years he got 70-odd million votes, more than most previous winners. Au contraire, he appears to have made unprecedented numbers of people happy. That's the big problem you'll be dealing with for many years to come, and you may not solve it...

No, Steve, I don't think so. It looks like Pelosi is going to go for the jugular and they WILL take him out. It is imperative for the preservation of the government. If he is impeached he won't be able to run, end of story. Otherwise, with the threat that he might run again, he will have the lunatic fringe racing to be bizarre enough to catch his attention.

She's a very small woman, and she's elderly, but she's determined and a helluva lot smarter than Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:55 PM

Betsy DeVos is gone, yay.

Lovely tune, that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:18 PM

trump's got to be so totally disgraced,
that he's left with no other option
but to beg to be allowed to move to N. Korea...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:23 PM

I am not disagreeing with the observation that Pelosi is a lot smarter than Trump. But Trump has lowered the bar for so many items that I think we should leave him out of comparisons and look for something a bit more objective.

There is so much outflow from this period: "stable genius" "alternative facts" that we're not even sure if this period is a swan song or a new lease on life or a remember the days.

Not to mention that yesterday's vile intrusion into the U.S. Capitol is part of the intro to brand new baby 2021.

How's the Brexit thread doing?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM

Note to those who may not be aware: if Rump is impeached and CONVICTED, he cannot run again.

For awhile today I was almost certain that he will resign. After a couple of hours of contentment I retracted it, suddenly aware that only normal people would react that way. The Rump is not normal so he probably doesn't know that resigning is the decent thing to do.

A complicating factor is that the earlier he is no longer the president, the earlier he will face a myriad of other problems.

I still don't want him to kill himself, but, really, only because it would instantly make him a martyr.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:56 AM

Oh, I forgot to ask. Does anyone know more about the alleged offenses at other capitols? I haven't looked it up but last night Joy Reid mentioned that there were trumpies in evidence at the capitols of several other states.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:28 AM

Interesting article from the Wall Street Journal examining the question of impeachment, and recommending resignation.

I truly cannot understand anyone supporting the worst President in living memory who has trashed democracy and the Constitution, and turned the greatest nation on Earth into a laughing-stock in the way he has. It’s becoming very obvious that our local saying here is absolutely true - “You can’t educate pork”.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 04:14 AM

It appears that demonstrators appeared at at least five different capitals in various states. Mostly peaceable but there were a few instances of arrests for disorderly conduct..

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM

"If he is impeached he won't be able to run, end of story."

Not so. The end of the story would be the Senate trial after impeachment. Only if the impeachment leads to the trial stage may he be barred from future office (and that is at the discretion of the Senate in any case). You have just twelve days to go through all the stages in the impeachment-trial process. If by 20 Jan you haven't got that far, the trial in the Senate won't go ahead (whether that's the Constitution I don't know, but there are precedents). You can't remove someone from office who is no longer holding that office (as with Nixon, for example). A failed impeachment process would be grist to his mill. Invoking the 25th Amendment would be a way to prevent him from directly doing more damage between now and the 20th but it wouldn't stop him from running again in 2024. There is scope as I see it for a criminal trial, along the lines of incitement to riot or similar, but that is not clear-cut enough for a trial to be short and sharp. A dragging-on criminal trial would be a very bad thing for your country and would very likely foment disorder among Trump's millions of supporters. You could simply let the dust settle and hope that he becomes more and more marginalised in his growing derangement, but if that doesn't work and he continues to stir up trouble it would be difficult to resurrect the alternatives. In the days before mass communication, wasn't exile a wonderful idea! You have a big problem, potentially, and whether it materialises will depend on Donald being a good boy, or not, from now on. In other words, he's in control. One of the fruits of populism, innit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:56 AM

I think the best thing that Americans can pray for is that he pegs out before 2024. He’s morbidly obese, it’s a possibility.

I just read elsewhere an unconfirmed report that one of the deceased rioters had tasered himself - allegedly in the face. Please Dog, let it be true!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:57 AM

I read BWM's link to the WSJ after I typed that. The trouble is that he's done a complete volte-face this morning in a tactical move to distance himself from the riot that he himself incited, typical of the man. That will play well for him in any future hearing and will make impeachment attempts look like opportunism on the part of his opponents - they've already screwed up once - and I should think that even reluctant Republicans might still stand behind him. What a mess. I think that a resignation would be out of character but I hope I'm wrong. He's a very bad man but to label him stupid would be naive.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:02 AM

"I just read elsewhere an unconfirmed report that one of the deceased rioters had tasered himself - allegedly in the face. Please Dog, let it be true!"

A bit reminiscent of today's story about the burglar who sat on his phone during the burglary and accidentally rang 999. The police responded accordingly, went round to the location of the burglary and caught two blokes red-handed...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM

Double Karma! <3

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:11 AM

Trump's political career is over after the events of Wed. and last week's phone call to Georgia, and his disgraceful non-response to the current pandemic, (4000 COVID deaths in the U.S. yesterday). In 2024 he'll be 78 and 4 more years into his obvious cognitive decline while the American electorate will become more diverse and younger in that time. His shortcomings as a kingmaker were also evident in the GOP failures in the Georgia runoffs. He may still have some juice and in some solid red districts but the majority of Republican candidates won't have much use for him, assuming he's still alive and out of jail.

Chao and DeVos resigned on principle but if they had any real principles they'd stick around and vote to invoke the 25th. As it is they're just rats exiting a sinking ship.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:12 AM

I could see that the Proud Boys were standing by to ignite violence but I did not know they had printed civil war II and rebellion T shirts for their Jan. 6 attack. I expected something but not the armed trashing of the Capitol.
A second person has died from their injuries after being bludgeoned by a fire extinguisher. He was a Capitol policeman.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:13 AM

Apparently, the burglar's phone call ran and ran, and the cops heard everything that was going on right up to the moment they arrived on the scene...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:15 AM

It's fine to surmise that his political career may be over, but you don't need a political career to do a lot of damage, and don't forget the 70-odd million people who voted for him. They won't all simply evaporate in a flash.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:25 AM

Unlike me, Mrs Backwoodsperson isn’t given to profanity but, on watching the riots unfold on TV and hearing the lunatic statements being made by some of the rioters - “This is the start of the Second Civil War”, “America wasn’t founded on democracy, it was founded on violent insurrection”, yadda yadda - she turned to me and said “The US is fucked for the next ten years at least”.

I think she has a point.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:32 AM

It will certainly take awhile for the stench of trump to fade.

Josh Hawley bought himself a peck of trouble for supporting trump, the 2 largest newspapers in Missouri, his home state, have called for him to resign (the Kansas City Star declaring that he had blood on his hands after the events of Wed. afternoon) and Simon and Schuster cancelled his book deal. He's earned this, let's hope Cruz gets his just desserts as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:26 AM

Have a vomit receptacle close at hand for this one-

trump and family waiting to go onstage and foment mob violence-Queensland Times

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 09:00 AM

I got the chronology wrong, the video was shot after these "American Patriots" had addressed the mob and were watching the events unfold together on TV. None of these "American Patriots" actually had the cojones to accompany the mob they loosed on the Captiol.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 10:11 AM

gillymore, thanks for posting that article

Ive been following the current situation on 2 of Australia's largest news sites & hadn't seen it. According to Wikipedia Queensland Times is a small local paper (circulation under 15,000, 40km from the state capital) but it has that story.

did you notice the article was posted under the heading CRIME?

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM

That is entirely appropriate, a massive criminal investigation is being undertaken, arrests have been made and trump, his family and his sleazy henchmen may be facing sedition charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM

On the idea of "Exile"...

"Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp...

In January 2018, US President Donald Trump signed an executive order to keep the detention camp open indefinitely."

It would be good karma...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:07 AM

The Trumpites in January 2021 are certainly proving Samuel Johnson’s words in April 1775 about ‘Patriotism’ absolutely correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM

We should not give into the fear that impeaching, or any other means of removal, of Trump will give him more martyr or victim status to his crazy base.

Either way he will go away. As a martyr or as a pathetic selfish enemy of the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 12:55 PM

I can get behind that post, Donuel. Even if it won't yield a conviction congress has a constitutional duty to act and a moral one to put forth the message that no one is above the law.
Right, BW, and the scoundrels have been doing a lot of flag-waving (i.e. ass-covering) on social media since Wednesday afternoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 12:56 PM

No point worrying about trump becoming a martyr,
when so many of his dangerously deranged acolytes
have already elevated him to the status of god and saviour...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 01:05 PM

Early Wednesday morning, prior to the Capitol violence, I woke up to a live youtube of Rudy Giuliani claiming that the just completed Georgia elections had been fraudulent, and with him was a "Professor" Eastman who acted as if he had facts (he hadn't) as to how the voting machines were rigged. You can still find this on youtube but I have not heard it in the news feeds as the later news of the day swamped it out.

Meanwhile Steven Colbert last night was pretty spot on. First was a report, presumably news-based, that the Turkish government had issued the kind of alert to their citizens in the U.S. that is usually given to Americans in third world countries. Then a mock shot of Kim Jong-Un telling his citizens to avoid the dangers of America. Colbert was taking the events seriously which you could see in his face, but the ridiculousness
of the domestic antagonists was highlighted. "I got maced because I was in the Capitol for the revolution!"

And now I hear that Trump says he will not attend the inauguration. History is being made, people!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 01:25 PM

I'm dizzy with so much truth here.
Lets getim, Impeachment will take away his ability to all campaign contributions,,,kick him in the wallet. -even if McConell sits on his hands and stalls, a new Comgress can proceed ex post facto.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 01:30 PM

He will not be impeached even though he deserves it, wait and see

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 01:51 PM

I hate to keep saying it, but unless the impeachment process progresses to a Senate trial it would be no more than symbolic, and, crucially, wouldn't prevent him from standing again. You have 12 days and counting, which appears to mean that you haven't got much chance. He's played a very canny and very cynical game today. If it ever comes to a criminal trial, he now has all today's astonishing capers in his defence armoury.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:24 PM

correction = Crucially, Impeachment WOULD prevent him from 'standing' again.

Perhaps the ransacking of the capitol has not dawned on some people yet. Laptops were carried away as well as entire lecterns and documents. Somehow secret Democratic Senator offices were found on the third floor. I do not know the status of safes.
Some one had a Mauraders map.:^/ or informant?
The first target was the Senate chamber where the state ballots were.
Unless they have a ID card magnetic code our laptops can not be opened.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:25 PM

Can we at least hope for one of his own family getting too impatient to hear his will read..

Great advances have been made in the development of easily targeted hard to detect lethal nerve agents...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:26 PM

I suspect he is practicing pardoning himself in a mirror. Which is the best the stable genious can manage at self reflection.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:29 PM

Are these your own zingers? They're great

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM

The Capitol police have few leads,the DMP have less, Homeland Security is stumped and the CIA NSA and MI are clueless so I'm going to call Lt. Joe Kenda Homicide Hunter.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:27 PM

Actually authorities are identifying a lot of the rioters from the crowing they've done on social media. Arrests to follow. Some of those Id'ed have lost their jobs. We're talking about some real "stable geniuses" here.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:37 PM

During the UK anti mask protests..
Organizers of the anti mask protests advised the mob
to wear masks whilst protesting against wearing masks...?????

Reasoning being to avoid identification by law enforcement...

Your yank far right crazies are obviously a lot stupider than ours...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 04:26 PM

Let's keep in mind that what started out looking like a namby-pamby assembly has resulted in two killings, two pipe bombs, some Molotov cocktails and three deaths from unknown causes.

One killing was the shooting of a woman breaking into the Speaker's Lobby, one killing was caused by striking a Capitol policemen in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Trump and Hawley have blood on their hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 04:47 PM

pfr:

I take pride in the craziness of our crazies versus your crazies. Your crazies wearing masks to protest having to wear masks shows a lack of appreciation of irony. Our crazies self identifying shows their fearlessness before the law. Or maybe a lack of appreciation of cause and effect. Some youngster is gonna get a Masters Degree writing this stuff up!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 05:27 PM

Sorry to have to keep blathering on in the face of obstinacy, but impeachment doesn't find anyone guilty of anything. It's what FOLLOWS the impeachment stage - the Senate trial - that can do that. And the whole impeachment process is generally used to try to remove someone from office, something that's happening imminently anyway. It is next to impossible for the process to advance to the Senate trial stage in Trump's case. There isn't time, and, even if there was, he could avoid it by resigning. If by some miracle the whole impeachment/Senate trial process can go the whole way, it could stop Trump from standing again in four years' time. Good luck with that. Otherwise, the impeachment would be symbolic and have no clout. The other alternative would be for a court to convict him of criminal offences and chuck him in jail. Wow, a martyr with 70 million supporters... I told you, he's a very bad man, but he isn't the fool you might take him to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 05:40 PM

Steve, you will just have to wait and see like the rest of us. Yes, we know the stages of impeachment, we went through it last year, it's still fresh. Even though he wasn't found guilty by the cowardly GOP in the senate, he still was impeached.

This next one will be down and dirty, but there is a lot riding on it - those folks who want to run for president in four years - well, if Trump is still in the mix, they probably won't be able to, and they're minding the main chance. Maybe they'll finally throw Trump under the bus. If he is removed from office he can't run again. That would be a huge sigh of relief for a lot of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 05:48 PM

He's either found guilty by a Senate trial (and the charges are - what??) or he's thrown in jail. Anything else you do, he can run again. Hope doesn't trump the facts, Maggie.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:00 PM

Maggie, I guess we just have to wait and see. I read in a news article this morning that a decision can also be made after a conviction on the impeachment on whether Trump can run again for president. It's a separate decision to the impeachment decision:

"Impeachment in the House has to come first (via a simple majority). Then the Senate has to vote to convict (via a two-thirds majority). Then the Senate can decide to ban the president from running for office again (a separate vote to conviction, and also a two thirds majority). It has to happen in that order."

ABC News Australia blog

And I had a lovely image of that big yellow-haired Trump-baby balloon being thrown under a bus.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:28 PM

Well that's right. It seems that articles of impeachment could be brought before the House by the middle of next week. That could be voted on quickly, and the process could be then taken to a Senate trial. I have no idea how quickly these things can be expedited in the US - but you will have one week from the vote in the House. One week, and he's going after that, at the latest, anyway. You have three hurdles: the timeline, the fact that he could scupper the whole thing by resigning (a good bet, I should say, if he sees the runes agin him), and the almost unassailable probability that the impeachers will not get the supermajority in the Senate. Another thing: the last impeachment, if anything, made him even more popular. And he has those seventy million behind him who are instantly going to see him as a martyr if you do anything precipitate. As I keep saying, good luck. And Maggie, I seriously want to be dead wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:50 PM

I note that Ms Pelosi would rather have Mike Pence invoke the 25th Amendment. Well that's very interesting. She's a politician to her boot heels. If she got her way, it would mean that a right-wIng Republican had taken ownership of the ridding of Trump. His supporters would not then be able to blame leftie/liberals/commies for his demise. So Pence won't do that. He may well have distanced himself from Trump to an extent, but he'll have an army of advisers telling him not to do that deed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:14 PM

best- resignation
good- 25th ammendment
fair- ex post facto impeachment comnviction in new Democratic Senate.
( he will suffer financially most with this )

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:27 PM

I don't know your constitutional nuances at all well, but I can't see there being much appetite, even if it were possible, for a "post facto" impeachment. And the Senate is hardly a massive Democratic Party bastion, is it, so a two-thirds supermajority to convict him is pie in the sky, frankly. If Pence invokes the 25th Amendment, I'll happily eat my hat. But if Trump sees the force to be not with him any more, he may resign. But you seriously don't think he wants to go without trace, do you. As I was saying to Maggie, days of hope can end in bitter tears. As I also said to Maggie, I desperately want to be as wrong as wrong can be. It's not just your country. It's the bloody planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 07:44 PM

Steve, if he is found guilty and removed from office Trump cannot run again. That's the reason for a second impeachment.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:22 PM

I read that Twitter have now blocked his account.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:24 PM

There is even a second route for the 25th ammendment that has never been used that bypasses Pense entirely and uses 8 MD's and reprsentatives of each party up to 17 members. It would be titled as a commission and not the cabinate.

Impeachment takes a minimum of 3 days.
Rats are leaving the ship even Lyndsy Graham who is now being called Donald Trump's 'fluffer' here in town. ( A fluffer is—or at least is said to be—someone on a pornographic film set that keeps a male performer's penis erect in between scenes.)
Hypocrites like Ted Cruz and others are in jeopardy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:31 PM

You can't remove him from office if he's not in office by natural means any more after the 20th. Fine, if you can get on with it before then. But removing him from office can be done only in one of two ways, via the 25th Amendment or via by conviction by the Senate after impeachment. The latter will not happen, Maggie. Even if it looks to Trump like it might, he will circumvent it by resigning. Please Lord, let me be wrong. We'll be having a very different conversation in a couple of weeks, but, in the meantime, don't underestimate Trump's potential for twists, turns, lies and trickery.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 09:27 PM

According to BBC news interview just before 2 am UK time..

There are serious concerns trump still has access to nuclear codes...???

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:19 PM

Yanks and Brits, this US/UK comparative video
shouldn't be a total waste of 15 mins of your time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIol-QKTW4c

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:44 PM

General Milley has been consulted regarding those nuclear codes.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:48 PM

Reddit bans subreddit group "r/DonaldTrump"

Reddit has banned the subreddit group "r/DonaldTrump," a spokesperson confirmed to Axios.

Why it matters: While not an official group or page hosted by the president, it's one of the company's largest political communities dedicated to support for President Trump.

What they're saying: "Reddit's site-wide policies prohibit content that promotes hate, or encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence against groups of people or individuals. In accordance with this, we have been proactively reaching out to moderators to remind them of our policies and to offer support or resources as needed," a spokesperson tells Axios.

Meanwhile, more rats are leaving that sinking ship. Trump must be awfully lonely in the White House. Hopefully he heads out to Mar A Lago before someone tells him he'll get attention if he burns the place down.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 11:54 PM

And more:

The big picture: It's the latest in a string of platforms to take action against Trump's accounts following the historic pro-Trump riot at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

Twitch and Snapchat disabled Trump's accounts.

Shopify took down two online stores affiliated with the president.

Facebook and Instagram banned Trump from posting for at least the next two weeks, and faced calls to boot him permanently, including from former First Lady Michelle Obama and high-ranking Hill Democrats.

Twitter froze Trump out of his account Wednesday before reinstating him Thursday once he deleted problematic tweets. [He kept it up so now he's permanently blocked.]

YouTube says it's accelerating its enforcement of voter fraud claims against President Trump and others based on Wednesday's events.

TikTok is removing content violations and redirecting hashtags like #stormthecapitol and #patriotparty to its community guidelines.

Subject: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:25 AM

Trump is threatening to start a rival social media channel to twitter , any suitable names for it? , perhaps Twatter, or Clap trap

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:38 AM

pfr that was an interesting video. I don't know enough of the British Constitution (unwritten) to judge the speaker's veracity and of course I don't have a personal take on Boris Johnson other than John Oliver's, but I'm always fascinated by Democracy in Olde Englande.

It did make me reflect on the fact that Donald Trump is probably in a state of terror right now. In less than two weeks he'll be stripped of his shell like a hermit crab yanked from its protection. He probably feels just that vulnerable.

So he IS pretty dangerous right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:45 AM

Up until a few minutes ago I had never heard of Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson.

This interview is one of the best I've watched regarding trump's impending demise,
from one of the most sensible US political commentators I've found so far...


"Trump’s Life About to Become "A Burning Hell" "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVTnC0Hky0&ab_channel=AmanpourandCompany

Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:46 AM

YouTrumped...

Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM

The TrumpDump!

Because you know.... It's Trump and a digital .... you know....

Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:35 AM

Many of his followers are on Parler, and much of Wednesday's attack of the Capitol was planned there. Google Play dropped the Parler app on Friday, and Apple is expected to drop the app on Saturday.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:50 AM

Tantrump

Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:46 AM

Twatter

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:51 AM

I read just now on the BBC news website that the earliest an article of impeachment could be put to the Senate would be on the 19th. The feeling is still that getting a Senate supermajority to convict him is almost inconceivable. It isn't clear either whether convicting him once he's left office on the 20th would be constitutionally sound...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:47 AM

Moscow Mitch put out a memo yesterday stating that the Senate, in the event of an impeachment, would not even begin prepping for a trial until the 19th, effectively saying no trial. But after impeachment his chamber could, but probably, vote to ban trump from seeking public office with a super majority vote without a trial. Even scum like trump deserves a fair hearing and shouldn't be railroaded into a hasty trial but he needs to be strongly repudiated after his shameful, seditious and undemocratic actions on Wednesday and on last week's Georgia phone call. Some times you've got to do the right thing even though it might not appear to be the smart or practical thing in order to get the message out there that no one is above the law. Thank goodness Pelosi and her caucus see it this way. Early next week the House will tie a bow around our worst presidency with a historic 2nd impeachment.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:51 AM

2nd sentence should read-"But after impeachment his chamber could, but probably won't, vote to ban trump from seeking public office with a super majority vote without a trial. "

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM

That doesn't sound constitutional, but do correct me if I'm wrong...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:11 AM

If you're referring to the Senate's ability to prevent someone from running for office after impeachment, it's been done twice before in our history, both times with federal judges, I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:22 AM

Maybe we have our wires crossed. I know that he can be banned from office once the Senate finds him guilty via a supermajority (though I'm unclear about the constitutional position once he's left office on the 20th, and some of your constitutional lawyers are also unsure). I thought you meant that there could be the sort of fast-track that missed out steps...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:43 AM

The way I understand it is that the Senate, after an impeachment in the House, can vote to ban the impeached from seeking public office via a super majority vote without a trial or a conviction. I would be very much in favor of that though there's not much chance of it happening but trump's going to have legal problems in a number of venues that will probably keep him occupied until the grave, might even cause him to miss a few rounds of golf or an assignation with a porn star.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:18 AM

What makes everyone inciting the coup CRIMINALLY respondsible is an overarching legal term called MENS REA be it Trump or Rudy or Senators.
Since the basis for their actions are based on FRAUD (the election was rigged) there is criminal culpability of all its founders. If there was any possiility that the basis for their action was not fraud but a provable fact with evidence there would not be Mens Rea and there would not be criminal action at the foundation of all their words and behavior.
Well Steve knows more US law than most Americans. BUT There are more nooks and crannies in the Constitution than people think.
Mitch McConnell has decided to sit on his hands and leave it to the next Congress. Every thing I wrote is accurate. I won't repeat it.
I have some Constitutional awareness since my dad was a constitutional law professor.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:26 AM

A simple 50/50 majority is needed to ban Trump from ever holding office. A 2/3 majority is needed for guilt

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:31 AM

Quite right, a simple majority is all it takes but I doubt Moscow Mitch would want Republican senators in swing states to have to vote on it. We'll have a real AG on the 20th instead of a trump bootlicker so let's hope the force of law hits him like a ton of bricks.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:40 AM

It needs a proper lawyer to answer this, but it looks to me as if the simple majority to ban from future federal roles only applies after he has been convicted on the two-thirds majority. I could very easily be wrong there, but as an abstract principle the ban looks like a punishment and the 2/3 is about guilt. So having a punishment when a person is found not guilty sounds odd.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:53 AM

I think you're right DMcG, and I apologize if I've introduced misinformation here. It was not my intent to deceive any one.

From NYMag-
NY Mag

From the article-
"Indeed, Senate rules provide that such a ban may be enacted by a simple majority vote after two-thirds of the Senate has voted for conviction in an impeachment trial."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:03 AM

Its OK to guess, when it comes to cosmology I guess all the time.
When it comes to statutes and the Constitution not so much.
Its my wife who gets called to the Capitol to testify as part of her job. I just get to complain about the gubmint full time. I am not a lawyer so feel free to ignore everything I've said. I won't sue you.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:20 AM

That NY mag article indicates that it may be possible to try an impeached trump in the senate even after he's left office.
At this point he's probably getting chapped lips from kissing Pence's ass in hopes of attaining a Nixon/Ford-like pardon, the same ass he was chewing on a few days ago for not conducting an unconstitutional activity on his behalf in the Senate Chamber.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:28 AM

"Its OK to guess, when it comes to cosmology I guess all the time.
When it comes to statutes and the Constitution not so much."
Let me point out that you also got it wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:40 AM

Lets look at the big picture. While Trump got 70 million votes fewer than 20 million will put their lives and family on the line to die for Trump. This constitutes an Army composed of Nazi, KKK spin offs and bible / gun nuts.

They are capable of a great deal of damage.
They won access to ransack the capitol but FAILED; to delay Biden vote, Hang Mike Pense, hold lawmakers hostage and murder the guilty by kangaroo court as similarly planned against the govenor of Michigan.

Next are the enablers; Murdoch, Zuckerberg, Trump, Republican Senators, Sinlair local radio and TV etc.



Am I saying anything new here" I don't think so. If you haven't opened your eyes yet they could be closed by violence.

Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:43 AM

Tantrump gets my vote!

Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:05 AM

BriteFart

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM

....also enabling trump seems to have been the evangelical christian churches. will they be able to change their tune? maybe accept a bit of humility? there should be a fair amount of cognitive dissonance going around - will it change much in the US? i really don't know whether we should be horrified or encouraged by recent events and what will happen next.....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM

And where, pray, does that statistic come from?

I think that gillymor, DMcG and I are on the same page now apropos of the impeachment process requirements. The banning from future office-holding can only be brought about after a Senate trial and a supermajority vote. What still isn't clear to me is whether it would be constitutional to go ahead with the whole process, including the Senate trial, after he's left office. Another point is that it's important to not conflate what the Senate does and what the criminal justice system does: impeachment is not intended to lead to punishment, and it doesn't enjoy anything like the same due process requirements.

His resignation would be owned by him. Amendment 25 would be owned, probably, by Mike Pence. Impeachment, if successful and leading to a ban from future office, would be seen to be owned by the Democratic Party. I've put them in the order of desirability as I see it, from best to worst. If none of those things happens, and there ends up being a criminal trial, which would be protracted, I think your country would be in hot water for a very long time. He did get an awful lot of voters behind him, and martyrdom would likely follow... Be careful what you wish for, and be even more careful what you charge him with.

We could be in for quite an interesting few days.

Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:46 AM

There are already existimg available platforms like News One and AHC. They call it the American Heros Channel but I call it the All Hitler Channel-they really do broadcast Hitler documentaries 24/7

Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:58 AM

covfefemax

(whoops, I see you beat me to twatter, Sandman)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:41 AM

plus you have trump's malevolent arsehole son perpetuating the nutzi shit stirring...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:46 AM

I was raised by a scientist father who thought it important that I have a (mild) religious education.

Kind of like a vaccine. I grew to appreciate it when I was at school and the Campus Crusade for Christ came by. Having a background in the language and stories of religion has not only been useful but inspirational. But my version keeps me interested and with no feeling that I have all the answers. Indeed, my personal religion is to keep questioning, including questioning myself.

And so whether or not one believes in God, I think one of the great lessons of God is that whatever, whoever God is, it's NOT YOU.

This may be the flaw in Trump's personal makeup. And one of the things that makes him unsuitable to be a Commander in Chief. We all have delusions, if only the delusion that we have no delusions, but that one fatal flaw, to confuse oneself with divinity, does not end well. It's one of the reasons that Trump lets down EVERYONE who believes in him. Because the one being he can't conceive of letting down is himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM

A quick legal Q&A
Who is culpable? Mea Culpa
Who intended crime in their mind? Mens Rea.

Main Stream Media was an enabler imo in the failure to call White Supremacy a brewing evil in all of its excuses, goons, mobs, REAL AMERICANS and those who burned and rioted blaming it on a ethereal mass movement called antifa.

Some of the rioters and looters have practice in the field and consider themselves veteran soldiers. Stalin said when one person is murdered its a tradgedy but a million are a statisic. He also said how people vote doesn't matter, what matters is who counts votes.

Of 20% of Trump voters who will fight in place for their feurer the actual number will be much lower for those who will travel for engagement, so Inauguration day will have a few too many Nazi instigators.
I suspect they will keep their promise. This time we might listen and learn who the real enemy and 5th columnists are.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:58 AM

robo i was 'inoculated' as well.














































i

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM

DonTrumpuel:

You are the only one I know who can oscillate and fibrillate at the same time!

Subject: RE: BS: robo Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM

Mr. Red Hotcold You're such a titillating dear. My bet is that we are all unique desite the obvious similarities.
Left to simmer, there is enough deep seated skum to float to the top along with trump fat and then be spooned out of the pot.
It seems if one can predict events and later claim they were right they WIN the mudcat BS game. Meanwhile there are the sore losers.

I have this cartoon of Donald Jr leading the tip of the spear charge of a light brigade into the teeth of hundreds of tanks. Jr's caption "were havin fun huntin you down" caption for tanks "fire".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:45 PM

Fox is doubling down in sarcastic tones referring to the "so called threats of violence" and gleefully attacking Geraldo Rivera for "repeating Democrat talking points". They are in NNM nazi normalization mode.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 01:54 PM

I watched the video of Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson and also this one on the same page.

Mary Trump Predicts A “Dangerous” Next Two Weeks Under the Trump Administration

Among other topics, Mary Trump mentions some of the many challenges Trump will probably be facing after he leaves office.

Also Mary Trump, a clinical psychologist, has evaluated DT and presents the case that DT ticks many of the boxes for sociopathy.

Personally, having worked with a number of people over the years who also appeared to exhibit sociopathic behaviours, I know that they can charm their friends and colleagues into believing all sorts of things. They do it with complete conviction because they believe themselves to be special, invincible, better than the rest of humanity, and entitled to do whatever they want regardless of the effect on others and with no apparent moral compass. When/if the scales fall from the eyes of their supporters it becomes very difficult for them to cope with the fact that the sociopath has used them, chewed them up and spit them out without a second glance as s/he goes on her/his merry way with the next target or project in sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:18 PM

Speaking of relatives, Melania is a sharp cookie, knows what she wants and is the most staunch deal maker.
Remember when she refused to move down to the White House with trump in 2016. Until she got a favorable renegotiated pre nup she did not budge. She insisted on a child, her parents immigration and mo money.

I picture Don Jr. on horseback wielding a sword along with his cavalry on race horses, polo ponies and Buffalo hunters. Bill Barr is saddled on a mule and Eric is racing RC cars.

I have Rudy dressed like Napoleon and Ivanka is singing diamonds are a girl's best friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:00 PM

I'll just leaven the bread with this little aside, fretting not a jot about its appropriateness:

There is a plane carrying 5 passengers: Nicola Sturgeon, Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, the Pope and a 10-year-old school boy.

The plane begins to go down and is about to crash. There are only 4 parachutes on board.

Nicola Sturgeon says "I have to live, I have the Scottish independence to sort out," and takes a parachute and jumps.

The Pope says "I have to live, I have to sort out the Catholic Church," and takes a parachute and jumps.

Donald Trump says "I have to live, I'm the smartest man in America," and takes a parachute and jumps.

Boris Johnson looks at the 10-year-old school boy and says "You can have the last parachute. I'm a lot older than you and I've lived my life, yours has yet to begin."

The school boy says "Don't worry Mr Johnson. There's two parachutes left. The smartest man in America just took my school bag."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:03 PM

Yes, it is unfair, trumpists are giving n@zis a bad name...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM

Okay, dumb dumb joke time, and like Steve's, this is a reframed famous joke:

You are in a locked room with Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and Donald Trmp. Fortune has allocated you with a Colt 45 loaded with two bullets.

What do you do?













Shoot Donald twice, to be sure.

It's a JOKE!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:29 PM

HAHAHA And here comes Steve limping out onto the field in his too tight referee outfit and whistles my post dead and issues a red card for saying NAZI.

I'm watching video of your 'patriotic protestors' wearing Tee Shirts that say Camp Aushwitz work sets you free and grey shirts that say 6MENE. Translated it means Six Million Exterminated Not Enough.

I suppose Steve thinks a proper Nazi should have gone to finishing school with the Hitler Youth like the prior Pope.
I liked your joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM

Well I liked it 4 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:55 PM

Robo, I would wait until they are standing next to each other like in the Red Dwarf despair squid episode.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:42 PM

It's time for trial by combat, Lets get ready to rumblllllllllllle. In this corner Ser Gregor Clegane at 385 lbs fighting in abesntia of Donald Trump and in this corner Joe Biden at 142 lbs. You can hear the wind of Ser Gregor's sword as it is swung in circles above his head.
Joe points a phaser at Gregor and vaporizes all but his sword saying "I believe in science". Cries of 'unfair' rigged and cheated can be heard.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:17 PM

I'll try again. There are half a dozen posts in this thread just today which are likening Americans to Hitler/Nazis. This is neither sensible nor constructive, nor does it exactly make this forum look great. I tried to say this in a very brief post, but the Nazi allusions are still there yet my cavil was deleted. These references are lazy and throwaway, and while they may well justifiably be applied to a few ringleaders, they may not justifiably be applied to millions of people who are simply misguided Trump supporters. They are people who need to be won back in droves. There are far better ways of doing that than by name-calling and branding.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:34 PM

There are at least 17 known Neo-Nazi organisations that are extant in US. it is dangerous to deny their existence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:38 PM

I'm not denying their existence and I'm not complacent. But I repeat: millions of people supported Trump, they are not by any means all Nazis (incidentally, please define...) and we need to win them back.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:58 PM

If a certain type of person was called a n@zi 80 years ago,
and a very similar type of person could now be called a 'trumpzi'..

They are still the same kind of person...

They have existed under one name or another throughout the ages.....

Hopefully, for all our safety, a significant numbers of trump supporters are still salvageable...???

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:25 PM

My view has always been that the term Nazi should be applied, more or less exclusively, to the contemporary active supporters of the Hitler regime. There are plenty of dictators who have acted just like Nazis, and there are hopefuls in most western countries who would like to act like Nazis. But to chuck the term around lazily is to severely devalue the historical horror of the true Nazis in the thirties and forties. Here's a case in point: I severely dislike and condemn the Israeli regime for the inhuman, often murderous, way they discriminate against non-Jews in the West Bank and Gaza. But many's the time on this and on several other forums that I've bitten back against anyone on my side of this argument who calls the Israelis Nazis. Quite simply, they are not, and the insult is intended to remind them, as hurtfully as possible, what real Nazis did to the Jews and to somehow equate the regimes behaviour with that. That's just wicked. The other thing is that we can find different words. We are not inarticulate. Even "neo-Nazi" does at least make some distinction. Far right, white supremacists, stuff like that. All fine. I want Nazi to mean someone of a Hitler-supporting mindset that affords no compunction to that person when it comes to blind discrimination and unfettered, state-supported evil-doing. Let's not misuse and devalue the term on this forum is what I'm saying. In m'humble.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:56 PM

Steve - I do tend to agree with you, and usually refer to the shittest human beings
as neo n@zis, or fascistic..

Though, trumpzis, and nutzis, and any other "....zis" folks can make up to take the piss out of the c@nts, is fair game...

.. c@ntzis...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:07 PM

I agree with that. The @ symbol is a wonderful way of not having to be literal in the lingo. And bugger me sideways with a bent banana if it isn't five past two and way past my bedtime...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:15 PM

well.. I not an expert, but I'm hoping the @ throws off search engines...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 PM

I keep reading, both here and elsewhere, that more than 70 million people voted for Trump. In fact, 70 million people voted against the Democratic party. Many of those would vote for a stick with rosette on it, so long as the the rosette was red and said Republican. As the sitting President, Trump got pretty much a free ride to the 2020 nomination. In 2016, it would appear that not everyone realised just how ridiculous he would turn out to be. If he tries again in 2024, Republican party members will know what to expect. Forewarned is forearmed. Trump is a spent force. I think we should be more worried about Donald Jr. or Ivanka stepping up to the plate, maybe not in 2024, but in years to come.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:54 PM

I have been very reticent about using the 'other' N word. For one thing, I think there IS a distinction to be made between the @zis of the 30s and 40s and the 'wanna-bes' of today. The majority of them in the far-right websites in America have no real idea of what the real ones were like. Take a look at "Garden of Beasts" for a mild reminder. And use of the term in this thread is more likely to remind us of a bad Seinfeld episode than to make a valid point about Trmp supporters.

For another thing, this ain't over. There ARE folks in the wings who do strive to be like the original. I've schlepped through D. Duke's "My Awakening" and it appeared to me to be long, repetitive, (unconvincing), but a genuine attempt to parallel "Mein Kampf" in an American environment.

And these people are distinct from Trmp and his kind. Indeed, Trmp overcame a great gulf since he has supposed Jewish in-laws and grandchildren. I think what may very well happen is that in the fallout from his failures, he will simply be re-labeled as a Jew himself.

Trmp has severe personality flaws and is despicable besides. And his great 'contribution' by which I mean damage is that he has been a diverter from what is really worth concentrating on in our national life. I don't think that is planned, just among the results of the effects of TMI on the world due to the nature of the data spigot of the social network combined with cult of celebrity. A sad revelation but we are subject to influences we have not learned to control.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 02:00 AM

I am not a Republican, but I'm human enough to want to know how Vice President Mike Pence is faring. Apparently he has gone into seclusion. In my opinion Pence has suffered something like being raped by a relative. Trump set a lawless mob upon him.

I've seen Trump's "incitement" speech and I've seen footage of the mob inside the Capitol. At first the people on the Capitol lawn seemed obnoxious but not dangerous. But the mob in the hallway where Ashli Babbitt was shot was vicious, lawless and looking for somebody to destroy. And the main person they were looking for was the person Trump pointed at - his Vice President, Mike Pence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 03:08 AM

The education system suits the present establishment , they do not want people to question, challenge or solve problems, yet many of our advances were made by challenging the system , an example Galileo, who met with great opposition from the Roman Catholic church. if people are not educated to challenge or question ,how can they discern truth from propoganda. Let us take Trump, Trump like most politicians is a puppet but he is a naughty puppet and a cunning operator, he has manipulated his supporters [ some of whom were shot] by posing as anti establishment, but does he have an ulterior motive is he [by getting his supporters to storm the capitol] warning the american establishment that if he is impeachd, he will expose other american politicians corruption. If people are not educated to challenge question and solve problems how can they discern or learn how to recognise hate speech and misinformation, If people are educated only in the style of Gradgrind[ Dickens Hard Times] of only facts they are ideal recipients for propaganda posing as facts

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 03:47 AM

[Being called N@zi] While they may well justifiably be applied to a few ringleaders, they may not justifiably be applied to millions of people who are simply misguided Trump supporters

The snag is, that was true in the 1930s as well. I have recently read "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933–45' which is largely based on interviews with 'ordinary' Germans, not military officers. Many could also be classed as 'simply misguided.'

However, I don't it too helpful to dwell on analogies from the past here: there are similarities and differences.

On the impeachment question: I think it important to consider the 2022 Senate elections as well. There are 20 Republican senators up for re-election, as well as 14 Democrat. By framing the impeachment as about the protecting the Constitution or Trump, it goes a long way towards forcing those 20 to declare themselves for the Constitution or for Trump, and either risks splitting their support, so helps the Democrats. Of course, these are politicians so avoiding such traps is something they are all experienced in. Nevertheless, the trap awaits.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 04:34 AM

It's gratifying to see a sensible and measured discussion emerging in this thread. I hope that we can keep it up.

To respond to DMcG, I agree with what you say when you compare the rise of the Nazis in the 30s with what went on last week (and its long build-up since 2016). But I do believe, despite the threat which I would not wish to understate, that there is still enough backbone in western democracies on both sides of the Atlantic to see off the kind of assault we saw last week. There was a severe fragility in German society at that time, in a country recently ravaged by a war that had decimated its young generation and left the country's economy and infrastructure in tatters, ripe conditions for a charismatic despot to hoodwink millions of people into believing in the false hope and nationalist exceptionalism he was peddling. We've seen echoes of some of that in Trump as he appealed to the "left behind" and in "make America great again." but the conditions in the country were nowhere near as conducive to his dream of takeover as they were for Hitler. I want to think that Trump's populist shenanigans will prove to be self-limiting and that there will be sufficient outrage and revulsion to prevent anyone like him from getting power again. That will take work in the form of serious public debate and self-examination - and education. I can't think of any American leader in my sentient lifetime that I've been even remotely a fan of, but we now need Joe to give us a few years of calm. And we need to think very carefully about the actions to be taken against Trump. We don't need a fallen hero, or a martyr, constantly stirring it in the background. I don't know what we can do about his dynasty, however. Americans do seem to love their dynasties...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM

Then there's the role of social media. There was a woman on Broadcasting House this morning who I think was saying that the two worlds of old, the social media world and the real world, have, worryingly, merged into one, and she was questioning the unfettered private-enterprise power of the massive social media companies. I didn't hear it properly as I was in the shower at the time, so I'll give it another listen later to make sure I didn't get what she saying arse about face... a bit like me in the shower did I hear you say...?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 07:52 AM

A rose is a rose...
I abbreviate the diverse coalition of trumpers as Nazis.
There are of course KKK spin offs, bible code thumpers, gun nuts (walnut, hazel and pea), militia wannabes, teenagers for the wall, Qanon psychotics, AM radio ss shock jock fans for Rush Limbaugh and others that are in the mob.
It would be better if they were not unified under one Trump 'banner'... Speaking of 'Bannon' he has more than Trump to add to the current state of affairs. If Karl Rove was Bush's brain then Steve Bannon is Trump's brain.

leenia is so right about Pense and the ultimate betrayal he must feel.

I would say more but I have to go save the world... :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 08:04 AM

Oh well you can't save te world quickly, it will long hard work like what Mandella did for South Africa. That is still a work in progress but it started with a TRUTH Commission just to air what was happening from all perspectives.
The American Taliban aka Nazis aka Trumpers need to be invited to the table to talk instead of bomb. Yes the sanity challenged need to have leaders at the meetings with Biden.

Its your choice for    CHAOS   OR   COMMUNITY

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 08:47 AM

Dick, who are you quoting in your post of 03.08?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 08:58 AM

I am not quoting anyone why should I be?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:40 AM

Sandman I empathize with your idea about certain types of education shapes minds to be too prone for propoganda. A credo to think for yourself would be worthwhile. At the same time we have to climb upon the shoulders of giants who have developed great truths in order to keep growing.

I have said before, it is more innate for the human mind to be hypnotised than we would expect. Education of an open minded kind will suit us better for this age than the 19th century education that had to support mercantilism. (endless desks of accountants rather than one computer).

^Reality formation is a very plastic and maluable thing. This quality of the mind may have an advantage to the species or not but it has persisted. Knowing this truth is an antibody to the mallevolent abuse of our susceptability.^

I don't know if you have a mind set that hypnosis is a stage or parlor trick or if you understand clinical hypnosis fully.
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire if you know what I mean..
This has been my 20 year message and I'm sticking to it based on what I have seen in 20 years as a hypnotist.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:49 AM

Perhaps it is easier for you or others to believe that citizens who feel like they have been cheated abd abused all their life by the powers that be, are most prone to be radicalized by propoganda. Its true but I say it goes deeper than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:54 AM

A terrible way of saying it would be "Psychology trumps philosophy"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 10:37 AM

I flipped on Fox for a couple minutes. Apparently, the media crack-down on Trump is because radical Democrat (which is all of them, if you listen) are trying to shut down free speech.

This is always what those people who want to incite violence say. "WAAAA - they won't let us tell people to kill those we don't agree with -WAAAAAH!" They were saying this sort of thing happens in "communist China".

Well, sort of. The leader of the country demands loyalists murder enemies of the state. THAT'S what usually happens.

Personally, I wouldn't mind the FBI checking out Fox, but that probably WOULD be a violation of free speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 10:47 AM

I also decided to live dangerously and looked in on the Twitter feed of an acquaintance who (alas) was a Trump supporter (I haven't asked lately if he makes a distinction between the GOP and Trump's brand of the party). At any rate, one of his favorite commentators suggested that the horror of having the House, the Senate, and the White House all in Democratic hands for the next two years is unprecedented. Except it isn't. The last time it happened was the first two years of the Obama administration, at which time his work was slowed almost to a stop by the infamous "blue dog Democrats," those Democrats from traditionally GOP states who were so afraid of losing their jobs that they couldn't support the party. After two years the GOP won enough seats to take over leadership in the house and they did the dirty work of opposing the first African American president.

I think the Democrats are in less turmoil amongst themselves right now, but we shall see. They don't have much wiggle room for dissent.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 11:53 AM

Trump is fortunate. He should count his blessings no matter how few there are. I know those pesky branchs of government like Congress and the Supream Court, Trump could do without, but if he indeed had the kind of government like his pal/lover in Russia and North Korea, he would have been dealt with far more harshly and secretly than back here in the ol US of A.

Let Trump be Trump
in the ash heap of history.
He is not worthy to be
king of the rats

The rat stampede wants safe passage. Individual rats claim "that was then this is now', I didn't know, He must have changed, I didn't see it coming but I wouldn't change a thing, Let my constituancy decide if I did right, I was just following orders-I mean protocol, I aws following FOX.
   
In law there is a measure of a man called the reasonable man. In short if an uneducated impoverished man does the same crime as a well privildged person, the harvard educated person is in a sense more guilty. The "reasonable man" has other meanings as well.


a correction: the other 25th 'like' ammendment for president removal is in the 14th ammendment.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM

Maggie, they may be forced to talk to each other and compromise. I'd rather they didn't have to, but I don't think it'll be a bad thing. As long as McConnell, and his "we're not going to do our jobs - or anything much at all" - crew are out of power.

I do remember when Democrats COULD have gotten things done, but were too busy fighting amongst themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 12:08 PM

13% of Republicans polled said Trump should be removed
94% Democrats said Trump should be removed

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 01:42 PM

Many republicans are not identifying as such is my conclusion

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 02:43 PM

What's all this last minute dangerous secret mission bollocks then...??????????

LINDELL: TRUMP will be PRESIDENT!


I haven't a clue who these trumpzis are, but wtf...!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:02 PM

For years the radical right has said The Democrat's Hair is on Fire.
It looks like the D's are rather calm and contemplative and the right is litterally out of their #$!~%*NG minds.

pfr, Mike Lindell is a pillow salesman who with Trump's help tried to sell oleandrin, a toxic poison, as a cure for Covid 19.
To be fair oleandrin is safer than bleach.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:19 PM

OMG, oleandrin??!! Everyone in Oz knows that the oleander tree is toxic. No right minded Australian would touch that with a ten foot pole.

I thought I had heard everything, but that really tops the lot.

Oleander, very pretty and the oleander flower is sweet, but the leaves (and all the rest) of the oleander are impossible to eat.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:57 PM

Oleander is a beautiful shrub or small tree that, to me, is the signature plant of the Mediterranean. Like many plants it's poisonous in all its parts. Same can be said about foxgloves, yew, poinsettia, arum lilies, daffodil bulbs, thorn apples, Daphne mezereon, potato leaves and fruits and a host of others. The thing most of them have in common is that you're hardly tempted to eat them. Enjoy them and keep your kids away if it worries you.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 06:20 PM

A person selling oleandrin as a cure can only be a person who has no concern for the sanctity of human life. IMHO.

Oleandrin is a toxic cardiac glycoside found in the poisonous plant, oleander (Nerium oleander L.).[1] As a main phytochemical of oleander, oleandrin is associated with the toxicity of oleander sap, and has similar properties to digoxin.[1]

Oleander has been used in traditional medicine for its presumed therapeutic purposes, such as for treating cardiac insufficiency. There is no clinical evidence that oleander or its constituents, including oleandrin, are safe or effective. Oleandrin is not approved by regulatory agencies as a prescription drug or dietary supplement.[1]

.....

Toxicity

Oleandrin has been reported to be lethal.[1] In one fatality, the blood concentration of oleandrin and a related cardiac glycoside from the oleander plant was estimated at 20 ng/ml.[9] In practice, there have been adult cases wherein 14-20 oleander leaves (of unknown oleandrin concentration) proved not to be fatal, but also a lethal case of a child that consumed only one leaf.[10]

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 06:49 PM

Police Use of Clearview AI's Facial Recognition Tech Spiked After Capitol Raid

First reported by the New York Times, Clearview AI CEO Hoan Ton-That confirmed to Gizmodo that the app saw a 26% jump in search volume on Jan. 7 compared to its usual weekday averages. Given the aforementioned treasure trove of potential evidence documenting the attack—from live cable news broadcasts to hundreds of images and videos—the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Washington, D.C. police have called for the public’s help in identifying participants. Roughly 2,400 polices agencies nationwide have contracts to use Clearview’s facial recognition software, according to the company, and several of them have reportedly been turning to it to assist federal investigators.

Detectives at the Miami Police Department are using Clearview’s tech to identify rioters in images and videos of the attack and forwarding suspect leads to the FBI, per the Times. Earlier this week, the Wall Street Journal reported that an Alabama police department was also employing Clearview’s tech to ID faces in footage and sending potential matches along to federal investigators.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 07:46 PM

I have two oleanders, both in big pots and both spending the winter in my greenhouse (they'd be killed by the cold otherwise). I can make them flower if I put them in my sunshiny porch in summer. I also have two lantana bushes, another plant that you see all over the Med. They are also poisonous in all their parts. They have to tough out the winter in a sheltered outdoor spot by my front door. I love the Mediterranean and I love to have plants that remind me of my sunny holidays in Spain, Italy and Greece. To date, I'm not aware that anyone has nibbled them or tried to distil out the toxins. Foxgloves grow wild in my garden. I probably cultivate enough digoxin to kill half of Bude, but the bees love the flowers so much that I don't think I'll bother.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:07 PM

Useless fact number seventy-twelve: When I was a student I hired out to be a gardener/ landscaper. One of my early jobs was to clear out a hill of oleander and plant it with hypericum. I did not know at the time that the one was poisonous and the other was St. John's Wort. Did get to see hummingbirds mating....I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 09:16 PM

Yebbut it almost certainly wasn't THAT St John's wort. It's a big genus is Hypericum.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 11:39 PM

Be nice, limeway, I almost lost my gummint this week!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 12:47 AM

This story of the January 6 seditious attack on the Capitol is still expanding. This new congress member was live-tweeting the location of Nancy Pelosi while the events were happening.

QAnon congresswoman faces calls for arrest after live-tweeting Nancy Pelosi's location to rioters

Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO), a gun-toting supporter of the QAnon movement, is facing backlash after she was accused of live-tweeting House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's (D-CA) location during the attack on Capitol Hill last week.

Boebert shared the tweet soon after President Donald Trump's supporters stormed the Capitol with deadly results.

"The Speaker has been removed from the chambers," Boebert wrote.

Twitter users responded by calling for the freshman representative to be jailed and removed from Congress.

"@FBIWFO please arrest @laurenboabert for aiding and abetting those who were hunting down @SpeakerPelosi on Jan, 6th by tweeting the Speaker's whereabouts," one person responded. "She's 5ft tall, 100 pounds and carries a Glock (and won't stop telling everyone)."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 06:39 AM

Conservative Republican Sen. Ben Sasse on Trump's delight in the violence- Huffington Post

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 08:30 AM

Video of entrance tunnel to the Capitol during the riot

That's the kind of newsgathering I can respect. The photographer worked his way through the crowd right up to the police line. Punctures a few myths:

- there was nothing very odd about the crowd. They weren't inbred freaks, they were normal-looking guys.

- they weren't acting particularly crazy. Very loud but NOWHERE NEAR what you'd see on an average Orange Walk in Glasgow. Nobody shouting violent threats or obscenities.

- with one exception: the group (acting as a coherent unit) who tried rhythmic pushing to use the people in front as a battering ram. They could have caused a Hillsborough-scale catastrophe. What did they think they were going to do, walk in over a carpet of their own side's bodies?

- almost everyone in the crowd must have owned a gun; nobody showed one. Dog in the night time stuff: they had this planned and universally agreed in advance.

One thing that video DOES confirm is how ineffectual the police were. Many different tactics could have stopped the rioters dead - a testudo of shields, tear gas, water cannon, stun grenades. Horatio on the bridge or the 300 Spartans could have done it. The fact that they didn't even try really stinks of collusion (and willingness to sacrifice the officers who got stationed in the front line: you see one of them suffering horribly).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:03 AM

I've seen video over and over again of a small force of Capitol Police trying to hold off the large mob in the Capitol bldg. and one of them was murdered in the endeavor so I can't get on board with a blanket condemnation of their performance. There were some bad actors among them and that is being investigated. The FBI warned the CP of the possibility of violence at the demonstration but did little to prevent it. It is their job, the FBI, to deal with threats of domestic terrorism and they came up woefully short in that department. There's plenty of blame to go around and no doubt some will find it's way to the White House for failing to act until things were too far along.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: HuwG
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:04 AM

As an aside, I read that the Capitol rioter seen walking off with the Speaker's lectern is to be tried in Florida.

I'd love to be the judge who asks "Will your client be taking the stand?"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:14 AM

lol

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:15 AM

The vanguard of rioting men in body armor and kevlar helmets that quickly reached the Senate chamber with tie hand cuffs are not in that video. Yes some people look normal normaly Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:21 AM

Trump loses PGA championship

Ouch! Poor baby.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 09:37 AM

Parler, Facehook, twitter and many private companies are leaving the conspiracy ship but Fox news is doubling down that violent left wingers are killing free speech.
I know free speech does not apply to private business but they are pretending to not know the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 10:05 AM

The trump militia rioters I've seen interviewed on BBC news and youtube
do not appear to be all moronic rednecks,
but fairly well educated and articulate..

That should be more worrying...???

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 02:11 PM

You would be surprised what repitition reinforcement can do to perfectly normal people. I am not surprised or worried. Many people will get their fix from other media and will abbandon the search or risk radicalization leading to paranoid schizoprenia.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 06:52 PM

News Flash- Mexico has agreed to pay for the wall and now Canada wants one too.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 08:08 PM

LOL gilly. I was thinking about the one that might go up around the Capitol!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 08:29 PM

Arnie terminates the proud boys and trump...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck&t=4s&ab_channel=ArnoldSchwarzenegger

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 10:04 PM

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has ruled out Trump's plan to go golfing in Scotland at the time of the inauguration because a trip into Scotland for golf would not be considered "essential travel" during the pandemic.

Bam! There goes a clever plan, right out the window!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 10:39 PM

.. emerging internet rumours..

trump hired mercenaries to lead the revolutionary storming of democratic govt offices...???

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 04:10 AM

Even if Donald is removed, that may not be the end of it. I have just seen a video on the Independent's website of Donald Trump junior before the march on the Capitol on Wednesday, saying he was sending:

"a message to all the Republicans who have not been willing to actually fight ... This gathering should send a message to them; this isn't their Republican Party anymore, this is Donald Trump's Republican party."

That sounds to me as if he was encouraging the marchers to "actually fight". And I note that he said it was Donald Trump's party - he didn't say it was Donald J. Trump's party.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; July 24, 1956, ch. 678, §?1, 70 Stat. 623; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, §?330016(1)(N), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 06:59 AM

New England Patriots head coach Bill Bellichick refused the Medal of Freedom from trump with an eloquent statement. Pardon my cynicism but the old coach would have lost his locker room if he'd accepted. Besides, trump has obviously cheapened the award when you consider recent recipients, lackeys Devin Nunez and Jim Jordan.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:00 AM

a minor note in these days of irony:
It strikes me funny that Tik Tok banned the president before the president could ban Tik Tok.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

With all this banishment from social media platforms he's no doubt building up a lot of stifled crazy that's sure to burst forth in some manner.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:14 AM

True but exposure to the truth is also more likely to happen in a vacume of the crazy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 08:02 AM

Reality is glorius and awful but populist fake reality is worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:15 AM

Interesting article here, copied from a live feed. I don't know how widely it is being discussed.

John Nichols writes for the Nation on how a 14th Amendment strategy could bar Trump from ever holding office again.

To imagine that Trump will fade away after January 20 requires the denial of everything Americans know about the president’s massive ego, his aversion to being seen as a loser, and his determination to avenge his defeat in the 2020 election.

Added to the Constitution after the Civil War, the 14th Amendment is a blunt instrument, which mandates in its third section: “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who … shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.”

Section 5 of the amendment declares, “The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”

This is why focusing on the 14th Amendment is relevant. As Pulitzer Prize–winning historian Eric Foner reminds us, the House and Senate House could, with a simple majority vote, censure Trump for inciting insurrection and, with the approval of a President Joe Biden, effectively bar Trump from running again for the presidency.

“This can be invoked against anyone who has ever taken an oath to support the Constitution, including the president,” Foner says of the 14th Amendment. “It’s much simpler than impeachment. It is not a judicial proceeding. It’s a political proceeding. It doesn’t involve lawyers or trials. It is simply about qualification for office. You could have one afternoon of debate and a vote.”

Read more details here: The Nation – How a 14th Amendment strategy could bar Trump from ever holding office again

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM

An article regarding section 3 of the 14th amendment by Bruce Ackerman also appeared in the Washington Post this morning.
WaPo
It sounds like a good alternative to Impeachment but there needs to be a thorough investigation into all the wrongdoing of the current administration by Congress and all relevant agencies or we risk seeing another would-be strongman attempt to overthrow our government.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 10:49 AM

As discussed earlier, the 14th has never been used.
It was created as a response to the civil war ending.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 11:57 AM

Doesn't mean it can't be used now .......... does it?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM

The drafters of the constitution never foresaw semi auto machine guns either,
but it don't stop amendments being cynically manipulated and distorted to suit partisan 21st century agendas...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 01:38 PM

Trmp has served, is serving, a larger purpose in the same way that America has in the past actually turned sh$t into shinola.

It is not Trmp's fault that he was elected. It is our fault. He was elected by the Constitutional regulations that established the electoral college system. And his folks made the rational argument that that is exactly what they worked for, if a majority vote was required, that would have been their strategy. Instead they worked the political border states which the Democrats assumed was part of their 'blue wall'. They exploited weakness in a perfectly legitimate way according to the Constitution.

You can say with truth that Trmp has been a fault detector. And we got it when we needed it. It is our job to recognize it as such and use what we've learned to fix our system and protect us for the time when the enemies of democracy will be, for want of a better word, competent.

Getting rid of Trmp is not fixing the system, merely getting rid of the stain showing where the disease is in the cells, the hiss of the pressure showing the leak in the tire, that stain you can put on your teeth to show where your brush does not get at the plaque. It is a kind of gift you get that you don't want, but if you work it, it will save you.

There's work to do, a lot of work to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 01:53 PM

Interesting comment, robomatic. I did wonder if there might be a new Ammendment to try to limit some of the extremes we have seen. But I can't see what the draft would be. Nor can I see enough states voting for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 04:23 PM

"Getting rid of Trmp is not fixing the system, merely getting rid of the stain showing where the disease is in the cells, the hiss of the pressure showing the leak in the tire"
- nice.



"Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in and blood from their BLM and Panifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent, stop calling this a march or a rally or a protest. Get ready for war."
- not nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 04:30 PM

.. apparently we've got it all wrong.. silly us..

trumpzis have obtained absolute indisputable truth
it was antifa to blame,
leading the riot disguised as law abiding trump supporters..

.. trump is innocent...!!!

got it...???

ok...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 04:37 PM

I have smelled pungent blood but thankfully I have never heard blood.

The nazi group even had written rules of engagement as to when to shoot or not.

Last I looked there are 122 Congress people holdng firm onto Trump racism and by association sedition.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 06:01 PM

Yeah, the extremists are still extreme, now with St. girl-who-got-shot.

The RushLimbows are doubling down. They are blaming the victim playing the "whatabout" game and projecting their motivations and emotions onto their opponents.

Really depressing was watching the Sunday talking heads shows interviewing former Trump chief of staff Mick Mulvaney and he was saying how when he was in the White House Trump was reasonable, just 'don't know what happened since I left'... This was unbelievable and reprehensible.

As I'm typing this NPR is going into a special report on the House of Representatives' resolution to issue the second impeachment of Trmp. 1800 Hours East Coast U.S. time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:16 PM

To to perfectly clear robo is a good man. Contentious but good.

I had a dream that when I woke up I saw Lawrence Fishburn and others standing over me. I was presented with 2 capsules, one red and one blue. Since I always pick the red candy I took the Red one. After some surreal gyrations I found myself with a socket in the back of my neck and enraged that the honorable Donald J Trump had his election stolen.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:31 PM

When I actually woke up I had a lingering feeling that as far as Trump is concerned, in his mind what happaned at the capitol was a peaceful transition of power. He was just getting even.
It coulda been worse despite the lingering seditionists

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:37 PM

It doesn't seem to be on any of the news networks but I have the Washington Post website up and they're broadcasting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:46 PM

broadcasting what?

Anyway I discovred that the TV was on as I slept and republicans were all jusifying the republican party and themselves as they said they would not go quietly into the night but Democrats should Christian forgive and forget, turn the page, let trump be trump, may old acquaintence be forgot and let bygones be bygones.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 07:56 PM

I'm watching the vote now. The Repubs voting NAY did so in a hurry. The Democrats are voting slowly.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 08:39 PM

Without SNL (Saturday Night Live) and Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, currently on hiatus until February, my go-to television synopsis guy is Steven Colbert. So far he has never been less than appropriate. A couple nights ago he was inspired. If I remember his short pungent take on the Capitol uprising it was:

Old Man 2020: "I'm the worst year ever!"

Young Man 2021: "Hold My Beer!"

Is there current Spitting Image on the east side of the pond?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 08:48 PM

The vote that Donuel's talking about is a vote to invoke the 25th amendment, which Congress doesn't have a tiny little thing to do with.

Just for show. Just to make sure everybody divides up properly, according to party.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:02 PM

The paint has dried but the vote goes on, yawn.

The vote goes on
and the vote goes on
beating all the
bone heads in the brain

If you're nazi and you're fired slap your face
If you're nazi and you're fired slap your face
If you're spotted in the mob and you lose your fucking job
If you're nazi and you're fired you're disgraced

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:19 PM

Christ on a bike.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:45 PM

Steve, it's less frustrating to just step around it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 09:50 PM

So
stepping carefully around the manic puddle
there are something like five Republicans who say they'll vote to impeach. There is a possibility McConnell may be among them. I hope he DOES vote for impeachment, but it doesn't change my opinion of him. I think he just looks for what will benefit him, and couldn't care less about the public.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM

But if McConnell DOES vote for impeachment, he will draw unknown numbers of GOP senators with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 05:35 AM

A vote to impeach is a foregone conclusion. A vote to convict in the Senate is a whole nother thing, though I hear that a few Republican senators are thinking of jumping ship...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 06:46 AM

There are 20 Republican Senators whose term comes to an end in 2022, so they will be campaigning in 2021, I expect. I would not like to predict how they would vote, but I will predict they will think about that very carefully.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 07:29 AM

Impeachment is certain and with McConnell changing his mind, conviction is more likely. The crime is sedition. The real crime is murder - the murder of truth in america.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 07:48 AM

Democrats could become more radicalized in response to the capitol attack response. I hear more of them asking why the capitol police did not shoot more rioters dead. That kind of talk does not help.
Don't take the civil war bait.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:22 AM

alternatives for the Trump lies

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:26 AM

Moscow Mitch seems to be supporting impeachment which would make a conviction much more likely.

YouTube suspends trump's account joining all his other major social media platforms.

NYT reports trump told Pence that he would be considered a pussy if he didn't violate the Constitution.

The old bastard is careening down the slope in a flaming toboggan, it's about time. Pass the popcorn.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:35 AM

Some of the same GOP congressman who tried to disenfranchise millions of voters on Jan. 6 are condemning a 2nd impeachment on the grounds that it would cause disunity. Mind boggling.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:49 AM

I found yesterday's letter from the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the troops comforting:

MEMORANDUM FOR THE JOINT FORCE
SUBJECT: MESSAGE TO THE JOINT FORCE

The American people have trusted the Armed Forces of the United States to protect them and our Constitution for almost 250 years. As we have done throughout our history, the U.S. military will obey lawful orders from civilian leadership, support civil authorities to protect lives and property, ensure public safety in accordance with the law, and remain fully committed to protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

The violent riot in Washington, D.C. on January 6, 2021 was a direct assault on the U.S. Congress, the Capitol building, and our Constitutional process. We mourn the deaths of the two Capitol policemen and others connected to these unprecedented events.

We witnessed actions inside the Capitol building that were inconsistent with the rule of law. The rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence, sedition and insurrection.

As Service Members, we must embody the values and ideals of the Nation. We support and defend the Constitution. Any act to disrupt the Constitutional process is not only against our traditions, values, and oath; it is against the law.

On January 20, 2021, in accordance with the Constitution, confirmed by the states and the courts, and certified by Congress, President-elect Biden will be inaugurated and will become our 46th Commander in Chief.

To our men and women deployed and at home, safeguarding our country-stay ready, keep your eyes on the horizon, and remain focused on the mission. We honor your continued service in defense of every American.

[signed]

Mark A. Milley
General, U.S. Army
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

John E. Hyten
General, U.S. Air Force
Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

James C. McConville
General, U.S. Army
Chief of Staff of the Army

David H. Berger
General, U.S. Marine Corps
Commandant of the Marine Corps

Michael M. Gilday
Admiral, U.S. Navy
Chief of Naval Operations

Charles Q. Brown, Jr.
General, U.S. Air Force
Chief of Staff of the Air Force

John W. Raymond
General, U.S. Space Force
Chief of Space Operations

Daniel R. Hokanson
General, U.S. Army
Chief of the National Guard Bureau

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:13 AM

Flaming tobogin Ha
The wall st journal and McConnll agree trump is impeachable

BEHIND BLUE EYES
No one knows what it's like
To be the bad man
To be the mad man
Behind trump eyes
And no one knows what it's like
To be hated
To be fated to telling only lies
But my dreams they aren't as empty
As my golf course seems to be
I have hours, only lonely
My love is vengeance
That's never free
No one knows what its like
To feel these feelings
Like I do
And I blame you
No one bites back as hard
On their anger
None of my pain and woe
Can show through
But my dreams they aren't as empty
As my hotels seem to be
I have hours, only lonely
My love is vengeance
That's never free
No one knows what its like
To be mistreated, to be defeated
Behind blue eyes
An no…

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 10:16 AM

gilly the memoradum is much likeGen Washington's Newburgh address

Subject: BS: Ban Donald Trump!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 11:00 AM

If Trump can be banned by Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and most recently Grindr - what is Mudcat waiting for? This is obviously the current big thing in social media.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban Donald Trump!
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM

Oh I don't know Jack, it could be quite amusing to see him tussle with some of the sharp minds on here.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 02:12 PM

Jack, jackie, jackums, if you tell mr. trump about a Smithsonsonian saved website like mudcat for which Donald can leave his leavings you are meaner than I thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 03:32 PM

Everyone is bailing on Trump now. He's no good to anyone with his seditious cooties.

America's oldest conservative magazine comes out in favor of Trump's impeachment

"In an opinion piece published by The National Review this Wednesday, The Editors of the nation's oldest conservative magazine declared that there is "no doubt that Donald Trump has committed an impeachable offense."

The op-ed stressed that President Trump "urged a crowd to march on the U.S. Capitol and pressure his vice president and Congress to abuse their authority" to overturn a free and fair election that Joe Biden clearly won.

As the mob breached the Capitol, Trump failed to forthrightly tell the rioters to stop, The Editors write, and the violence that ensued was the culmination of Trump's "ceaseless campaign of misinformation meant to delegitimize an American election.""

The rest is at the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 04:22 PM

Without an internet platform for Trump to excoriate and deamonize republicans who betray Trump loyalty I predict more than 8 Republicans will see that acts like defecating in the capitol to killing a police officer is the result of Donald's wild mob incitement for months.

Hearing the loyalists 'paraphrase' the incitement speech was hilarious.
"sallyforth good people with love in your heart to the capitol and with boo or yay voice your approval or..." :^}

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 08:04 PM

inside job

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:34 PM

Representative Pressley's panic button ripped out ahead of blast. Sounds like an inside job, planned ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:38 PM

I can't believe nobody posted that he was impeached for a second time. (Or maybe it was in a different thread?) Ten Republicans voted in favor of impeaching.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:53 PM

SRS, between the cops not doing their job, even helping the mob, and the Repubs taking them on tours and showing the creeps where to find offices, there needs to be a major investigation, and prosecution. Also, every one of those people who objected to the democratic election process should be removed from Congress.

Well. that's my opining for the night.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:57 PM

Jeri it was such a forgone conclusion why bother.

Stilly great minds think alike. ;^/ 3 Congress people are reported to have given tours and instructions to insurgents inside the capitol against rules on Jan.5

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 10:04 PM

I don't think the Brits here understand the climate here. If you're a Democrat on the hill, death threats means its wednesday. This is new to Republicans now and are acting out of fear for their families and themselves. Intimidation is a norm in the Trump climate change of fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 10:40 PM

I think a single Question Time would make the average American leader pull his own 'ead off rather than see Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:39 AM

I admit I don't fully understand the consequences of being impeached. There is the Senate trial - at some time - which might find him guilty of incitement to sedition. As far as I can tell, that would carry a penalty of up to 20 years imprisonment in normal circumstances if passed in an ordinary court. But all it seems to do in this case is allow further votes on actions like barring from standing again, and the Senate could, in principle, decide not to do that. It does not seem to carry a penalty in its own right.

We had something similar in the UK. Dominic Cummings was found to be in contempt of Parliament. His response was to shrug and say so what? That looks very close to the US position.

Does found being guilty as charged by the Senate carry a penalty in itself?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:38 AM

Impeachment is a separate matter from due process of the law of the land, the latter being the way to get him in jail, as with any other citizen. A Senate trial after impeachment is different. If Trump is convicted there, it wouldn't be seen as a punishment, though obviously his reputation would be completely shot. More importantly, the Senate would then have the power to bar him from future office. Of course, conviction by the Senate after impeachment wouldn't preclude him from facing criminal charges. Whether what would probably be a protracted and very public criminal show trial would be in the country's best interests is a moot point, in m'humble.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:45 AM

conviction by the Senate after impeachment wouldn't preclude him from facing criminal charges

You may well be right, but I would not be surprised to hear cries of 'double jeopardy' from his lawyers.

Let's leave Trump out of this as a specific, and consider what 'a President' might do.   You can imagine two extremes: something extremely serious, like personally burning down the House, and the minimum that might be a successful impeachment, say misuse of the Presidential Seal.

If looks to me as if the range of actions available to the Senate after a conviction are the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:02 AM

.......... pull his own 'ead off rather than see Doug.


???

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:12 AM

Your hard man reputation clearly goes before you, Doug! :-)

The double jeopardy argument doesn't wash. That would apply only to due process of law, which the impeachment process ain't.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:43 AM

DMcG In a nutshell https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/impeachment

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:52 AM

Thanks for that, Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:02 AM

A Pardon after a guilty verdict is a different can of worms, and would President Pense then be willing to do so? The federal 'punishment' is removal from office.
A guilty Trump then becomes game for any State prosecution.
Civil Courts csn fine or jail.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:14 AM

It can't just end at trump.
His son, and close allies and enablers, must also somehow face justice.
At the very least
permanent barring from public office and influence..

Trump is a toxic figurehead.
But cutting off the head of the snake does not finish off his malignant legacy.
Other corrupting heads are waiting for their turn to quickly grow back to replace him..

They must be preemptively stopped alongside with trump...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:18 AM

Even if the president is impeached and subsequently convicted for abusing their pardon power, the remedy would be limited to removal from office and disqualification from future office. So the individual president is removed from power, but their acts are not undone.
In fact, the CRS noted that some have argued impeachment is “useless against a president . . . who grants controversial pardons in the very last hours of his tenure.” Meaning the president can grant whichever pardons they want just before they leave office and nothing can stop them.

And there are no other ways to stop a presidential pardon either. A footnote in a 1977 William and Mary Law Review paper said, “the pardon remains effective despite removal of the president for issuing it. Once delivered, a pardon cannot be revoked.” And there’s no evidence that this has changed in the 40 years since it was written.

So, a pardoned person will remain pardoned even if a president is impeached and convicted. Once the paperwork is complete and the person is officially pardoned by the president, there is no precedent for undoing it.

Courts will probably overturn a self pardon.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:45 AM

That's as good a reason as any for rogue dictatorships being swiftly 'remedied'
by the targeted deaths of the dictator, his sons, generals, and regime political & religious leaders...

Something the USA has been ruthlessly effective with in overseas interventions in foreign lands...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 09:10 AM

I agree

The big picture of US politics and leftist economic policy from FDR's NEW DEAL faded away by 1960 with conservatives whittling aqy and regulating away the New Deal. Since then the partys in the US became the same except for civil rights. Tweedle dum and tweedle dee. Monopolies emerged again. We even farmed out child labor. There has been NO true left for 60 years. When the only difference between Dems and Republicans was racial politics, Trump played it up to the max.
...........................
Love me I'm a liberal democrat except for economic policy against blacks - was the reality of institutional racism.
............................
A true FDR left is needed now because of the pandemic depression inequality and wealth poverty chasms. How we get ahead is the challenge in light of the conspiracy population.

Evil genius' got us here and good genius' are needed to get ahead.


Now you know more about US political evolution than 95% of Americans.
Yeah the statistic is my guess :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 09:53 AM

"And there’s no evidence that this has changed in the 40 years since it was written."

Think how little precedent has been set so far regarding impeached Presidents. This is the fourth time a President has been impeached, and two of those times were Trump. I think the possibility of changing things has to do with WHY he was impeached, and why the pardons should be thrown out.

I don't believe he can pardon himself. AFAIK, no President has ever done that, but the founding fathers definitely didn't have a "get out of jail free" card in mind when they wrote it into the Constitution. It was supposed to be about righting wrongs, and justice.

But I am not a lawyer, and all of the above is opinion/supposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 10:44 AM

Most people frown on those who try to put a crown or halo on themselves. The supream Court Justice to preside at Clintons impeachment sewed 5 stars on his robe sleeves to out rank all generals. Impeachments have their improvisational side.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 11:33 AM

In order to pardon himself, wouldn't he first have to admit that he had done something wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:28 PM

He can stay silent.(if only) He would only be considered guilty by law and pardoned.
Suffering punishment and imprisonment will not come from the Federal Government.

It will/could come from State Civil courts and monetary suits from corporations, banks, Joe Sixpack etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:45 PM

"Suffering punishment and imprisonment will not come from the Federal Government."
You must have a crystal ball because the efficacy of a self-pardon is not a foregone conclusion. The D.C. Attorney General is under the jusridiction of the federal government and he's investigating the speakers who ginned up the crowd before the Jan. 6 insurrection, which include trump. The feds will also be interested in his recorded phone call to the Georgia Sec. of State in which he begged for votes as well as his attempt to coerce Pence into unlawfully overturning the election results. He's nowhere near out of the woods with the feds.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:46 PM

"jurisdiction"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM

As to Jos' question, merely accepting a pardon implies that one has committed unlawful acts. Many a person who has been charged with a crime has refused a pardon because of that implication.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:24 PM

Actually to accept a pardon would merely imply that you believed it was likely you might be found guilty, not that you accepted that you were actually guilty. It's different from. The situation where a pardon is offered to someone after they have been found guilty, when a condition of it being offered is tgat guilt is accepted.

I don't suppose it would work to claim that the Senate trial, if successful, was confirming the view of the House that Trump was guilty, and that the verdict should therefore apply from the moment of the impeachment, and that any pardons from that point on would not be valid. Since there has never yet been any impeachments that were confirmed by the Senate, there are no precedents to guide the court. It would be worth trying this anyway.   

I don't think there is any reason to think the supreme court justices slipped in by Trump would feel any obligation to help him. As originists they'd be likely to be trying to channel what the Founding Fathers intended. And it seems pretty obvious the FFs would have seen Trump as a contemptible little man.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:56 PM

McGrath: "Since there has never yet been any impeachments that were confirmed by the Senate, there are no precedents to guide the court."

There have been multiple cases of impeachments that were adjudged guilty, just not presidents. Since there had been only been two previous presidential impeachments -out of 44 presidents- that hardly establishes a set rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 06:10 PM

Why can't all these mighty clever and powerful legislators just respond to abnormal current events,
to fast track making new rules setting a precedent
on how to punish an evil wannabe mad dictator president...???

I thought the USA prided itself on being a 'can do' kinda culture...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 06:41 PM

Supream Court Justices are more like sitting ducks compared to Congress people. You can be sure they empathize with Congress and don't want to toy with Donald ever again. The profle of a Justice's courage should not be predicted.

We are on a fast track 'can do' pace.
Legally speaking "intent and state of mind" will be the prominent issues.

ps I do have a crystal ball and a 209 isotope iron nickel meteor.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 06:50 PM

Nixon woulda bin CONvicted bud he quit B-4 the Sinet voted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:06 PM

"Supreme Court Justices are more like sitting ducks compared to Congress people"

How so? They've tenure for life. There is nothing Trump could do for them, now or at any future time, short of taking out a contract on them.

They may have needed to suck up to him before they got the gig. But that's past and done. He can't touch them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:42 PM

Even if the Senare failed to convict,, Trump would still be liable to prosecution for his actions on January 6th. And if found guilty the 14th amendment would still be likely to kick in and bar him from running for President in 2024. And it is to be hoped, bang him up for a long time.

Mind you that would be likely to mean Donald Junior, if pardoned by Daddy, running in his place - no doubt waving his copy of Trump's version of Mein Kampf, ghosted for him while he hangs out in a pretty luxurious cell. And Donald Junior if elected might be even worse. For all his faults the President has one redeeming feature - at base however malevolent and evil he may be, he is very stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 07:59 PM

Considering the hundreds of self-congratulatory tweets he's put up, it's a fair bet that Mike Pence is jostling for position for 2024...

Makes me feel glad that I'm getting old. Pass the cooking sherry and hold the glass.

If the Senate convicts him, that would be a good kicking-off point for charging him with criminal offences. If it doesn't, which still seems the likely outcome, I think you'd be in a big mess if you tried putting him in the dock.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 08:02 PM

.. and old billionaires should be more likely to drop dead sooner from unhealthy lifestyles..

Hopefully Jnr has an urge for trendy dangerous high adrenaline fast sports activities...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:50 AM

McGrath: "at base however malevolent and evil he may be, he is very stupid."

Great line!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:03 AM

Hopefully Jnr has an urge for trendy dangerous high adrenaline fast acting drugs. That might solve the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:28 AM

Well I'm not big on wishing people dead, etc. First, I feel that such sentiments, if expressed aloud, may diminish us almost to their level, and, in any case, the kind of people we're talking about are a bit like the Lernaean Hydra. Cut them down and two more just as bad spring up in their place. We've already mentioned Pence and Junior...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:29 AM

Here's what Yale law professor,William Eskridge Jr. thinks about a self-pardon and trump's ongoing legal jeopardy.
WaPo
Fortunately trump still has a crack lawyer in Rudy, who's been seen around the White House carrying a sign that says "Will Work for Pardon".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:49 AM

Sitting ducks implies less security than Congress which I believe is about to change. At least I hope so.

Sedition requires intent, planning and coordination.
It sounds open and shut to me.
The air/era of trump impunity is over.
Those who believe the Senate will never convict probably think being chicken shit is innate and that Courage is more rare.
They have a point.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:59 AM

It's a question of looking at the current politics and predicting, not believing.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 07:10 AM

Even if there is no conviction in the Senate trump has plenty of legal woes ahead. After Jan. 20 he'll no longer have a lapdog AG and he'll be dealing with a Justice Dept., which is independent of the legislative branch ,that he won't be able to use as a personal defense team, quite the opposite in fact, to say nothing of state and municipal prosecutors that want to have a go at him. Pass the popcorn.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM

And while you're munching the popcorn, better look over your shoulder. A trial is sure to galvanise an awful lot of those 70-odd million supporters of his.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 07:24 AM

I don't really give a shit about that, when you back down from terrorists where does it stop. I'm more focused on the 80 plus million who voted for Biden and the fact that under trump the GOP lost the midterms, the White House and control of the Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:17 AM

If next week goes peacefully, I think we could have a bit more confidence that things will settle.

Be careful what you charge him with!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM

Legislators and prosecutors need to do their constitutional duty regardless of where it leads, we've had enough lawlessness these past 4 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:35 AM

The worst scenario is a NYT headline of TRUMP ACQUITED TWICE
A rushed impeachmnt has its risks compared to waiting to see more evidence of collusion with sedition and mob attacks.

Lyndsy Graham says be afraid our mob will get you if you impeach (paraphrase)
But trump is a one trick pony and does not have time to assemble more death marches. If the fascists were going to openly shoot they would have alraedy. That does not preclude cowardly snipers.

Same with the Qanon shaman wearing horns did not stab anyone with his spear.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:48 AM

Agreed, Donuel, this can't be a quickie trial. There were reports from White House workers that trump, instead of calling for aid in quelling the riot, was tromping around the place wondering why everyone wasn't more excited about the storming of the Capitol. These people need to be deposed, they can't just rely on trump's pre-riot speech. Fortunately McConnell won't be setting the agenda this time around.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:02 AM

" I think you'd be in a big mess if you tried putting him in the dock."

It's all a big mess whatever happens. But the fact that the Senate might fail to support the impeachment need not in any way interfere with a court trial. I can't see how it could be seen as double jeopardy. The impeachment isn't a criminal prosecution. And the difference from the last impeachment is that this time it is pretty evident there will be a majority vote against him, just not enough to reach the two-thirds level.

Getting a jury together might be a bit tricky. I doubt if there are many people in Amerca who haven't pretty firm settled opinions about these issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:10 AM

The link Donuel shared makes it fairly clear that the double jeopardy defence would not apply in law, at least in the opinion of Cornell Law School. Whether that would mean Trump's lawyers and any media he still has on side would not claim it "in the court of public opinion" is quite another matter. I could easily see it being claimed as another QAnon/"biggest witch hunt in history"/Elitist plot.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:18 AM

"I could easily see it being claimed as another QAnon/"biggest witch hunt in history"/Elitist plot."
Of course it will be but we've got to stop cowering before this would-be dictator if we're ever going to be rid of him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM

.. quick googling suggested the ultimate sentence for sedition in the USA
is death...???

trump has shown himself to be a very enthusiastic supporter for the death penalty..

.. just saying..


Many, many, Americans have been executed for far lesser crimes
than the accumulation trump is guilty of...

.. and if his most fanatical acolytes pledge to sacrifice their lives for him as wannabe civil war martyrs..

That's their choice...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 10:04 AM

If the Senate trial fails to convict, he couldn't claim double jeopardy as that trial is not related to due process in the criminal justice system, but it would be grist to the mill of Trump and his supporters in the event of a criminal trial. I agree with gillymor about having the courage to go for him fully, but there will be consequences: it keeps him prominently in the public eye for a protracted period - think of the headlines week after week - and it would very likely whip up whatever supporters he would still have by then. I suspect it would still be tens of millions.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM

Ideally, trump and his close allies choose a glorious Alamo style last stand on one of his estates..
Get it over quick, done and dusted..
Start slowly rebuilding the US...

Some worshippers would write the history of his heroic martyrdom.
Most of the world would write him off as a pathetic failed tyrant..

.. adding, trump to the list of saddam, gadafi, bin laden, etc...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 10:43 AM

PFR,
I know you like to use sarcasm to make your point, but some of your last few posts, on how to get rid of Trump and his close supporters, seem decidedly unpleasant. I am sure you can find some valid points to make without hoping for people's deaths.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:01 AM

Doug - Not a time for squeamish moral superiority bollocks..

I am a pacifist, but not an absolutist pacifist.

As a general rule I would prefer not to wish death on anybody.

I am anti death penalty,
but accept there are valid extreme exceptions when it may be a last resort viable pragmatic solution...

trump may be one of them..

The threat of time on death row might appeal to his instinct for cutting a deal for clemency
on condition he fucks off into quiet exile...???


Here's a fun game..

Let's guess trump's response to being told by a higher authority
that he could make things right again
by either sacrificing his own, or his son's life...???

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:03 AM

Comedic relief can cause some grief
but is worth the needed release

Pense was seconds away from a crossfire and lynching event.
It would have changed the nature of the gallows humor if he had been shot or hung.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:20 AM

Most people know that the 3rd Reich soldiers took Pervatin (crystal meth) and later oxycodone. It seems the rag tag nazis in America do too.
I wwwould hope they will also use Himmler's little helpers (cyanide)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:21 AM

donald trump, Messianic leader of a death cult...???

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:36 AM

trumpzi militia guerillas would be taking semi auto machine guns, hunting rifles, and body armour
to a Drones and Cruise missiles fight...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:39 AM

I'm with Doug Chadwick on refraining from wishing death on others.

According to the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, Mr T's supporters in Congress are claiming that his inflammatory rhetoric is just colourful figurative talk, and it's not his fault certain people took him seriously.

Me, I want to see Trump and his followers humiliated and repentant. They can't atone for their sins if they're dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:43 AM

pfr
Abraham bound his son Isaac on an altar at Moriah long ago, as he had been instructed by God. An angel stopped Abraham when he was about to slay his son and switched Isaac with a ram!
Donald bound his son Donald on an alter in Maralago, as he had been instructed by Satan. A demon stopped Donald when he was about to slay his son to reverse election results and switched Donald with Donald!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:50 AM

"Me, I want to see Trump and his followers humiliated and repentant. They can't atone for their sins if they're dead."

Charmion, we have an expression this side of the pond "in your dreams" which means that is absolutely not going to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:36 PM

Repentant is too much to ask for. Humiliated perhaps not.

But what's really needed is to find some way to open the eyes of some of his supporters.   There is always a significant number of people in any society who are basically lost souls when it comes to thee kind of things. But generally they are a relatively small proprtion - call them a fringe, call them a gardcore, but there aren't tgat geat a proprtion.

But what is frightening is that belief in Trumpism and the lies of Trump appear to be actually shared by the large majority of those who voted for Trump. It was easy enough to imagine why people might choose to opt for either of the candidates in both Presidential elections, as in any election, But this kind of brand loyalty is very hard to make sense enough. Hold your nose and vote for what seems like the lesser of two evils - but to actually like and Trust someone like Trump, that is unconceivable.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:40 PM

pfr, your fun game might be more fun if the answer weren't so obvious. :-)


When trump contracted COVID-19 I hoped it would croak him because given his continuing disinterest in dealing with the virus as a public health issue his death would have saved a lot of innocent lives and we wouldn't be in this dire situation now. When and how he sheds this mortal coil is now of no consequence to me as long as he's gone.
A Pew Poll conducted from Jan.8-12 has him a at a 29% approval rating, the lowest of his term with a note worthy decline among Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:42 PM

I'm glad the Nurmemburg trials didn't sentence Goering to humilliation, atonement and repentance.
Nazi sympathsizers and white supremists come in many flavors I guess.
Or am I being too harsh on Rudy and friends?
Kids torn from their parents and put in barb wire camps have still not been reunited.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:49 PM

The ? in my last post was meant to be a smiley face.

---

They don't show; I edited in a text version of it for you. ;-) ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM

Thanks, elf.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:16 PM

It's quite handy trump decreed Guantanamo Bay should remain open for business..

But with all the trumpzi internal terrorists at large, you might need a bigger camp...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:29 PM

They need to close Guantanamo and use the prisons for people who really need to be in there (Trump domestic terrorists) now that they will hopefully release those charged wtih minor drug offenses that were way over-prosecuted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:37 PM

pfr said, "The threat of time on death row might appeal to his instinct for cutting a deal for clemency
on condition he fucks off into quiet exile...???"

But, what's the probability of Trump being able to stay out of trouble and keep his big mouth shut for any length of time, let alone the rest of his life. And as leeneia said, the Hydra effect would kick in and the Trump sprogs would kickstart their political careers.

As Raggytash said about seeing "Trump and his followers humiliated and repentant" those two responses are not in a sociopath's repertoire.

And pfr, "But with all the trumpzi internal terrorists at large, you might need a bigger camp... " don't forget to factor in the superspreader events facilitated by Trump for his massive fan base. Sadly, the massive fan base might be drastically reducing day by day and the blame for that lies squarely in Trump's lap.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:21 PM

Helen - yeah.. trump's larger mass scale equivalent of the cult poison suicide Jonestown Massacre..

..or if he goes for the 'Alamo option'.. the Waco siege...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:25 PM

Trump is like all bullies, he is a coward. He will never put himself in physical danger.

He might put his wife or his children in that position but never himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM

As witnessed, Raggytash, by the fact that Trump said he would be there with them at the Capitol and then held a big party and watched it all on television and delayed calling in the National Guard until Mike Pence finally did it.

Yep, pfr, very similar to the Jonestown massacre.

I always knew Trump was stupid, but how stupid is it to kill off your own fan base by denying that the virus is real and deliberately putting them in danger? I don't think rational thinking is in his repertoire either.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:50 PM

Who are the extremist rioters?

They are extremely varied-
Qanon- a virtual religious cult of Trump prophecies and magical thinking
Nazis- are under diffrent titles; boogaloo boys, proud boys and KKK spin offs
Tea party mutants- people who had truth decay from the start and evolved into predators
Religious right- From Jerry Falwell to Bob Jones protestant graduates
2nd Amendment fans- Paranoid since Obama who prefer Sandy Hooks to gun control
Rush Limbaugh veterans- People who always hated women and others smarter than themselves
Typical racists- Exploiters and folks secretly envious of blacks
Militias- 1%'s, oath keepers and lodges that play soldier on weekends.
AK 47 - enthusiasts looking for a reason

There are others of course but the main thing is that they do not get along with each other or authorities.

Americans- Exposed to media that shapes their hate strategicly

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:55 PM

Like ancient world god-like emperors
decreeing their families, servants, soldiers, horses, and dogs
be entombed with them
when they die...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:21 PM

Now the old dickhead wants a military send-off on inauguration day and I think we should give it to him. Strap him to an ICBM, point it towards Mar a Lago and start the countdown.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:33 PM

Really? What happened to tar & feathers and a rail?

I like parades!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 08:36 PM

There is a definate over reaction show of force in DC.
There is also a over reaction by Fox News accusing Democrats of lies, riots and a plan to frame Trump. btw they say lockdowns are a lie and don't work. who knew

what happened to tar and feathers?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 10:32 PM

Doug Chadwick:

My reference to "pull 'is own 'ead off rather than see Doug" was a reference to an old Monty Python sketch on how non-desirous a criminal was to have to answer to the master criminal Doug Piranha who used...............sarcasm. "'E knew all the tricks, metaphor, pathos, pun, litotes, and satire!"

The regular practise of Question Time seems to be somewhat more erudite and brassy than American legislators are wont to endure in modern times. The mastery both questioner and PM have to have to endure this swift repartee seems to be well beyond what puffed up yankee solons can view with impunity.

As to harsh desires some of us may have regarding our outgoing President and his 'sisters and his cousins and his aunts' (That's a Gilbert and Sullivan reference). some of you might enjoy the recent "Squeeze Me" novel by Carl Hiaasen in which the Current Occupant runs into problems on his golf resort when large burmese pythons begin to show up, apparently by invitation, to embarrass him and his supporters, to say the least.

In the meantime, yesterday I got my first covid vaccine shot from an Anchorage school system nurse. Reported on in the vaccine thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:01 AM

Thanks Robo.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:48 AM

So the last execution has taken place under fucking shit trump, of a man convicted 24 years ago, which is cruelty beyond belief.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 06:08 AM

For once, Bonz, we are in agreement.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 07:51 AM

Protest and dissent is at a new low. Dissent merchandise sold on the internet are things like small buttons that say "science is real"
How provocative is that?

operation warp speed should be called warped greed.
There are no US government reserve vaccines left.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:05 AM

Trump is so virulent he got a second dose of impeachment this week just like the
Covid vaccine.

Subject: RE: BS: A very important post
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:48 AM

IF TRUMP CAN RESPOND TO A NATIONAL EMERGENCY he could declare a National emergency and thus impose martial law keeping Biden from assuming control.
This is why there is an overwhelming presence of national guard in DC so a national emergency of riots can not take place.
There is chatter and intelligence to support this scenario.
Mike Lindell was at the White House yesterday and supports the martial law plan according to the Washington Post.
Because Trump's Plan A failed to kill lawmakers on DC a second wave of Inauguration riots seems like plan b.
I don't know if a hypothetical takeover of the Madison Wisconsin capitol building would be enough to justify National Emergency martial law.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:31 AM

Donuel's list of 15 Jan 21 - 03:50 PM has been in the news the last couple of days as prosecutors and FBI and various state investigators track down hundreds of offenders from the January 6 assault on the Capitol. News of each of their raisons d'être as they are arrested is disheartening. So many nasty groups out there, all unleashed and energized by the cretin Trump.

If that is what the makeup of the Republican party is now, there won't be a quick return to normal for the good people who did a yeoman's job of bashing Trump with the Lincoln Project. As I listened to them talk in interviews I was aware that once Trump is out, they would restore the GOP to it's old self - but now it's looking like that won't be so easy.

On my radio just now - "Pompeo spoke on Voice of America recently . . ." damn, that's another broken agency. Trump's folks trashed it into a horrible source of vitriol for the world, no news or leading by example. One more thing for the "to do" list.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:42 AM

donald trump.. Public Enemy No. 1...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 11:04 AM

Don't forget the radicalization process was invented by Facebook with alogorhythems that refeed one point of view to maximize their advertising dollar. It is imo the biggest richest enabler.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM

"Fascistbook"...

A too easy pun, which is no longer just a glib smartarse remark...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 11:13 AM

Even Luxemburg won't allow Pompeo to visit for 'state dept talks'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 11:22 AM

When does the rest of the world get to declare the USA a rogue failed state,
and send in military peace keeping missions...???

.. at least it's been proven beyond doubt America has stockpiled WMD...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 02:23 AM

One thing that feeds into the ability of some seemingly rational people to hold on to the Steal lie is maybe that the allegations have been so over the top that they've been rejected by courts out of hand. When the rogue congress members called for a commission to examine fraud allegations, they may have been insincere, but it might have been a good idea to take them up on it, but require that such a commission should take place after the inauguration of Biden.

Clearly there's a case for examining the whole business of how elections are carried out in the states. There have to be some limits on the ability of states to make voting harder for some people by restricting the number of polling sites and so forth. Unpacking allegations of voting fraud would fit well within that context. (In fact I believe it is common practice in many democracies to examine that kind of thing after elections.

I don't suggest that the hardcore Trumpists would waver in the face of the strongest evidence that they've been lied to, but I can"t believe 75 million Americans are all irredeemably insane.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 02:55 AM

I don't think they were all insane either Kevin. Any more than the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit were insane either. They do have one thing in common. They were conned by populist lies. Not to say they were easily fooled either. The conmen, led by Trump and Johnson, are very good at it. They tell people what they want to hear and are very convincing. They were supported by mainstream media and well funded. It is the manipulation of politics by outside influences that needs to stop. In my opnion.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 05:46 AM

The millions who voted for Trump/Johnson/brexit were all the more easily manipulated because of the lack of political education. In a proper democracy it's crucial that the voters are made more resilient to wily politicians who pretend that their simple promises are the way to run the country. I'd hasten to add that a politician has to be wily in order to survive, but being wily doesn't mean being a liar, and a well-educated electorate would the more easily be able to see the difference. Of course, as soon as you advocate political education (by which I emphatically do not mean "citizenship" education) you're labelled a commie, a red under the bed, a raving leftie revolutionary... .

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 09:20 AM

One encouraging thing I heard on TV news - it was reported that it's claimed that since Trump got shutout of his internet megaphone sites, the number of his type of conspiracist posts about the "election steal" and so forth has gone down by no less than 70%. Not just his tweets but other people reposting them etc.

I wouldn't put too much weight on that, it doesn't sound like hard info, more of an impression - butit's still encouraging, and we need encouragement now if we ever did.

I'm reminded of the story of Dr John Snow and the Broad Street Pump, in a cholera outbreak in1854. Cutting off a source of pollutioncan have dramatic effects.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 11:30 AM

Kevin it may sound unintuitive to you at first but there is a real phenomenon in which 'the bigger the lie - the more believable'.
This realization came to light here during the Nixon administration.
The BIG lie has a lifetime but is quite robust. People react to the big lie in a rationalization that something so outrageous has to be true because no one would make up something that bizzare.
Combine this with a truth like racism and you have a powerful hybrid lie. Yes you may see this phenomenon at work in your own country.

pfr if you hate the 'US' that much so be it. If you are only expressing shaudenfreude you might be 'happiier than a pig in shit'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 11:40 AM

But for the most part you are right. I can't deny it is as crazy and destructive as you say.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 11:48 AM

Don, I don’t believe that any of us here hate the US, but I do think that many, perhaps most, of us hate the image of the US that 45 and his cabal have presented to the world over the past five years.

I worked for an American company, and with Americans, for thirteen years, and I know that Americans aren’t all ‘like that’.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 12:06 PM

McGrath of Harlow, the Dr John Snow story is a good example of identifying the source of a problem and standing up for the evidence against people who denied the facts in favour of their beliefs. I saw a documentary on TV about that. Thanks.

And I don't think anyone here is happy to see the cracks in the US political system, except that if it is now so broken it might become obvious to the people in power that it needs to be re-jigged into something more robust i.e. an electoral system which can withstand attacks on its integrity from someone like Trump who doesn't have a moral compass.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 02:36 PM

Donny - Wow..

Whatever makes you think I am an Americanist...!!!???

I could never be Americaphobic, some of my best virtual friends are Americans..

I'd even let my daughter marry an American.. [Disclosure: I don't have any children..}

I don't hate America, there's much about the culture I love maybe even more than Britain..

No, what I am is angry with and afraid of America.

I quite reasonably fear America as a bigger real threat than either Putin, or China..
.. or perhaps even Israel and North Korea..

Ok.. Maybe the USA is still only second behind IS!S.. but up until Biden's win,
even that was debatable...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 03:43 PM

I think Americans are sometimes very starry eyes about the extent to which people in other countries see them as an inspiration, rather than a warning. Rapturous words about how it's seen as "a shining city on a hill" and so forth.

It's much more complicated than that. Along with an appetite for a slice of the cake and an appreciation of and genuine affection for of many aspects of the culture there's an irritation at the way these often seem to take over the world. When things go wrong for America the rest of the world's reaction includes a measure of satisfaction.

There's nothing unusual in this - much the same was equally true of the British Empire in its pomp, and even today by many. But I get the impression Americans may be more prone to believing their national myths.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 06:14 PM

Almost any criticism of 'Americans' fits... IF you put **some** in front of it. It is far too easy to spin a broad generalization of both the USA and 'what the rest of the world' thinks about us.
   This 4 years has been embarrassing to most of us...including many who voted for his Trumpness out of some hope his brash talk meant something. The excessive support for the idiocy he brought has exposed...more than usual... a lot of the racism and hate that still exists. It let them come out into the open more.
   The thing is, the basic idea(s) in the Declaration and Constitution are still operable and allowing us to begin recovery after learning a sad lesson.
   Soon.. 3 days.. we will have a president and congress tilted the other way, with cabinet members and a judiciary made up of competent, sane and dedicated people. In all my years, I have never seen so many appointments that were not based on political favoritism!
It will be tense as Biden & Co. try to correct things in 2 years..before another nervous election mess.... but plans are being made.

   You folks who...rightly... decry the mess we have made, keep making comments (as if I could stop you!) but don't judge too harshly until you see how it goes.
If Georgia can make progress, can Alabama be far behind?? Oh... maybe that's too much to hope for....
Still... *shrug*

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 06:40 PM

Thanks Bill D. My comments about re-working the electoral system were more about the electoral college system.

One person, one vote is the system in Australia and it seems to work well. Also, not having a presidential system means that a disproportionate amount of power does not rest on one person. It is spread across the whole political party which won the election, or in some cases, if there were a couple or a few political parties which won a lot of votes, there has to be negotiation between the parties in power. Donations to political parties is very heavily regulated and the big political rallies are not as over the top as the U.S. events. We also have some big media/broadcasting organisations which pride themselves on balanced, evidence-based reporting. We do still have the nut-job media and personalities, but that is usually balanced out by the more rational broadcasting and news organisations.

Most of the time we don't have a lot of political bickering and name calling, although we do have our moments.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 09:08 PM

Hmm. You still managed to elect Tony Abbott... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 09:11 PM

I feel shock , sadness and shame for the country. I can believe that many will gloat at our misfortune. While I have written that I was seeing a coming civil war for the last 20 years i was still surprised by the attack.

45% of Republicans support or defend the attack, Insurrection is becoming a sport and even have pre attack news shows on TV. Until states seceed it is a sport for amateurs. Republicans would be better off if Trump could never run again. It would give them a better chance to lead the rabble in 2024. Niki Haley has that sense but not Ted Cruz.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 11:38 PM

"If Georgia can make progress, can Alabama be far behind?? Oh... maybe that's too much to hope for..."

Bill D, have you ever been to Alabama? I mean for a long time, like two weeks? I bet not.

My husband worked in rural Alabama for months and months, and he found most people there to be gentle, unsophisticated and friendly. Like many rural Americans, they are poor, looked down on, don't know how to get out of poverty, and are beset by alcohol, meth and opioids.

Small wonder that a wiley politician with a captive TV network promised them salvation and they believed it. Remarks like yours only make the situation worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 12:07 AM

I predict a rough week ahead. People who bet probably have money on whether Trump will 1) pardon various of his criminal associates 2) pardon seditious rioters or 3) pardon himself.

The lunatic fringe is armed these days and have military tactics and training. Here's hoping they all decide to stay home.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 06:20 AM

Any news on how the ‘Armed March on Capitol Hill and All State Capitols’ which we’ve seen being touted around social media went off yesterday?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 07:02 AM

Happy MLK DAY - assasinated by the right along with Malcome X, JFK, RFK...
That suceeded in virtually silencing the left until BLM
Assasination politics has returned. Trump's inability to hire competant people was his downfall.
There is now proof the White House paid between 10 grand and 20 grand to organizers of the January 6 coup.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 07:43 AM

BW, it seems things were kind of quiet yesterday and banning trump from most social media platforms probably had a lot to do with it but we still have a few days until he slithers out of D.C., without the big military send-off he was begging for.

USA Today has a protest tracker that they periodically update.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 07:49 AM

I may not get to the promised land of truth with you but I promise you will get to the promised land where people realize they were fooled by lies. The big lie will die. The algorithem lie cycle will change. Even the atom sized lie about me and you will pass away.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 12:15 PM

leenia.... no, I have not been to Alabama. I HAVE been to Mississippi for two weeks....in 1964, on a voting rights march.
I'm assuming the nice, gentle people you dealt with in Alabama didn't view you as an "outside agitator" who was there to threaten their fundamental beliefs about racial equality. I was at that time living in Kansas, and rural folks there did not conduct lynchings... but it was best to be careful about your politics.

My extensive reading about progress & politics since 1964 has shown me that Mississippi has made more progress than Alabama. The town that I visited back then now has a black mayor. In 1964, I was threatened by the sheriff and police. Alabama is still electing people like Tommy Tubberville.

   In almost any place in the country, rural folk are 'generally' hard-working, friendly people who will help you and share with you... unless you are there to poke at their core prejudices.

Progress is slow... but much slower in many areas of the South. Georgia has made obvious progress... but 2 weeks in Alabama would test my ability to stay out of conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 12:36 PM

Helen.. I too view the electoral college system as an outdated anachronism that hamstrings fair presidential voting.

The problem is, getting rid of it would take a Constitutional amendment that not enough Southern states would support. Many of our problems are related to our basic **states rights** setup. In most countries there are things that can be done by vote or decree for the entire country.... here, on many matters, each state can opt out and write its own rules. Joe Biden plans to issue a mask mandate on Wednesday, but it will only apply to federal buildings and workers.

230+ years of our history are both an asset and a hindrance to certain types of progress.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 01:00 PM

Yes, Bill D, I'm beginning to see how difficult it would be to make changes to the electoral college system.

One big benefit of living in the technological communication age is that the state results were known nationally and internationally as soon as the votes were tallied so it would be extremely difficult to tamper with the results. Compare that with the horse-and-buggy days and it's a completely different ballgame.

And gillymor, I was trying to think of some relevant and pointed music that the military style band could play to see him out.

Send in the Clowns? The classic silly circus tune, Entry of the Gladiators? Or maybe some of the best music of all time, songs by the great African American musicians like Louis Armstrong's When the Saints Go Marching In, or What Did I Do To Be So Black And Blue? or Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen or Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 01:17 PM

To be clear, I thought of the song What Did I Do To Be So Black And Blue? because I think it is one of the most poignant lyrical expressions of the effects of racism that I have ever heard, so I think it would be the most appropriate last barb at a self-proclaimed racist's farewell.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 04:25 PM

The Electoral College was in place to help slave-holding states remain slave-holding states. It's way past time for it to go.

Trump is rude right up to the end as far as being gracious to the Bidens in the transition. Interesting article about the move out and the move in at the White House.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 05:15 PM

Hey Bill did you know Kansas was named after the Kaw tribe?
I think the 1st native american VP was 1/2 Kaw.

Trump's legal jeopardy grows as rioters blame Trump for their involvement.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 05:37 PM

I haven't seen this in the news but my Hubby said that the rioters are going to demand legal costs from Trump because he is responsible. Now *that* will be an interesting story! I wonder how that's going to play out.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 07:32 PM

Don... the 'Kaw' was a shortened form of the Kanza .. there were many tribes whose names were muddled by early historians.

In Kansas, I knew several members of various tribes. The most notable was Blackbear Bosin who was also a photographer and showed me some things..he designed The_Keeper of the Plains, which I watched being constructed.
But in Lawrence, I worked with several Kickapoo, like Don Wenenis and Virgil Shoptese, who were forklift operators at a Stokely-Van Camp warehouse, and a couple of the nicest guys you'd ever want to know.

More here

...and Wichita itself was named for one tribe.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 09:31 PM

It's just not true that it would take a Constitutional Amendment to effectively get rid of the problem with the Electoral College. To formally abolish the College would need a Constitutional Amendment, that¡s true, but there's another way that's almost in reach.

A good number of states, some of the Red, have agreed to the National Popular Vote Interstate Concord, which means that all their electoral college members would be legally bound to vote for the candidate who got most votes, but with that only kicking in once the number of electors Bound in that way reaches 270.

At present states with 196 electoral college votes are committed to that, but in a number of other states at least one part of the legislature has voted in favour, and the other has not rejected it. They would bring the number well above the crucial 270 votes.

It sounds to me as if there could be a realistic possibility of this being achieved within the next four years.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 09:32 AM

McGrath you are remarkably well informed

Bill a native american calmness seems imbued in your stature.
The Kickapoo exist from the great lakes to Mexico so naturally I wandered in their territory in my lifetime. Americans are deliberatly not introduced to native americans in public school. At most I share a common enemy, white supremists.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 09:43 AM

In the law stretching tradition of Trump the remaining pardons to come are not required by law to be made public.
Secret pardons was something I never considered either.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 01:45 PM

An interesting article By Zac Gardner in Oz ABC News.

With the US Capitol attacks,
domestic terrorism in America has exploded into the mainstream

I'm sure Trump would not be happy about this statement, and it puts a different spin on the whole Capitol event:

"Extremist groups have spent years preparing for the next "American revolution" — and they've used Donald Trump more than he has used them.

"This is something they would have tried to do no matter who was president: they just saw an opening with him, and they took it."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 02:19 PM

Without Trump they wouldn't have had a sea of mugs to swim in. And they wouldn't have had a Congress building set up for mostly easy entry, with the National Guard kept out of the way till they'd had time to do the necessary.

The mercy is that they were such incompetent terrorists. ISIS would have wiped the floor with these lads. They couldn't even manage the prayers properly.   But they'll learn. Next time they won't have such a cooperative management perhaps, but they'll be back.

I suspect that the genuine resistance shown by some of those defending Congress wasn't supposed to have happened. But I doubt if that will come out.

There are some genuine conspiracies.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 02:33 PM

I'm hearing breaking news stories now that a man from Ohio, a member of the "Oath Keepers," has been identified as one of the ringleaders of the assault on the Capitol on January 6. More information will certainly follow.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 03:30 PM

Well, I hope that time spent party-planning means inadequate time to free Trmp's personal miscreants, but he probably has people preparing the paperwork for that. But maybe they are as error prone as himself. I heard a story that there were some recent appointments to the security apparatus which kinda hinted that there would be folks who would demand to see secret files and so would be enabled to sell same. There, now I've contributed to the anti-Trmp rumor mill.

Not a rumor?: Apparently a woman was trying to find out how to send (or sell?) House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's pilfered laptop, from the Capitol invasion of 6 Jan, to Russia.

I couldn't make this stuff up. But I'm gonna check it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 03:49 PM

Yes, a woman in Pennsylvania told a former boyfriend that she had Nancy Pelosi's laptop computer that she planned to ship to Russia. I don't know where the computer is but she apparently turned herself in.

Pelosi wrote to the NSA folks (or one of those high-level security agencies) and asked them not to install the inexperienced boob pushed forward by Trump and the (I kid you not) "My Pillow" guy.

There will have to be a lot of reassigning if they can't fire some of the ticks embedded in the body politic by Trump. A good place to start is with DeJoy and that board of governors at the post office.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 04:31 PM

Extract from the Guardian's latest weekly letter to its supporters (which include me):

...And hot on the heels of all this, we are likely to see the spectacle of Donald Trump’s unprecedented second impeachment trial. There is debate over whether the Senate can even hold a trial for an ex-president. Republican Sen. Tom Cotton, says: “The Founders designed the impeachment process as a way to remove officeholders from public office — not an inquest against private citizens.” Steve Vladeck, a University of Texas law professor, disagrees, saying the Constitution doesn’t just provide for removal but also for the Senate to bar that former president from ever holding federal office again. Watch this space …

Discuss, yanks, leaving your wishes to one side...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 05:48 PM

Robo in the begining of the end of Trump's bid to be President for life, YOU WON. Institutions win. But ya gotta admit , it was damn close - seconds in fact.
He almost pulled off a coup as inept as he is.
I checked The Congressional Research and found a yes and no answer to secret pardons. They can be secret but a FOIA request might find them.
Also the recipent would have to have something akin to a get out of jail card. The most ponderous lengthy boring law is the APA administrative procedures Act. I don't have 20 years to fine tooth comb that tome. It could even say steve is a wanker but who could find it. Brits discuss. If Donald has a big mac heart attack and fails to submit the pardons, then what? ;^0

Leonard Cohen Hallluya was chosen for the Covid 19 memorial with the Bidens tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 05:54 PM

I do keep returning to the concept that "the opposite of love is not hate but indifference."

The one thing that the great majority of blue voters, red voters, and east of the pond onlookers have in common is that WE CARE.

That may not seem like much, but it might be the only thing we can build upon. The trick is not to kill each other in working this out.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 06:17 PM

"It could even say steve is a wanker but who could find it.'

Far more likely to say that Donuel is a little gobshite, probably in easy-to-spot headline capitals, I should have thought.

I can't see much appetite for reviving the idea of a Senate trial in a hundred days, I suspect, though that would be the only way - unless you know better - of ensuring that he couldn't stand again in 2024. Well, another way would be for the Republican Party to come up with a stronger and saner candidate...I haven't studied how that works...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 07:17 PM

As shit heads go you are a lovable one.
Gob shites who write this above the line are not lovable: "There was no African-American population, of any status, to speak of until the 20th century. Slavery was a political/moral abstraction tied to U.S. Statehood and a non-starter everywhere".
There are even mods who have fascist proclivities. Those guys are wrong but you are seldom wrong. Few people read as carefully as you.

When I look at the mobs in the capitol I see the great grand children of Indian killers and the descendants of massacre and lynch mobs of 1900.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 07:27 PM

Or was that indiference?
oh well.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 08:01 PM

If, after confirming the impeachment, the Senate voted to bar Trump that would of course stop him running for president in 2024. But that's not the only way.

There's a strong case for arguing that he's already barred from doing that under the 14th Amendment. Whether that applies would need to be determined, ultimately in the Supreme Court. That could come through a case against him for his role leading up to January 6th and on that day.   If there was no such proceeding it would be likely to arise any time he starts to campaign for President.

Even if theSenate fails to muster enough votes against him to convict, that would in no way amount to an acquittal of the criminal charge of supporting insurrection.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 09:10 PM

The charge that can be brought against him in the Senate can't be regarded as a criminal charge. If he's convicted in the Senate, which seems very unlikely, the Senate may then decide to bar him from future office. Apart from the obvious besmirching of whatever shredded reputation he still has, that would be about it. Any further steps, to convict him of a criminal offence, would have to go through the same process as anyone else would. As for the 14th Amendment, the processes that would be needed to bar him are not in place, and it's likely that Congress would have to pass new laws, then indict him, then try him... They could theoretically bar him, once that's all done and dusted, with a simple majority in each house. But you need to have the processes in place and you have to accept that he would have the right of appeal, which he would take as far as he could. It's very messy. Making Amendment 14 useful for circumstances such as the current ones would be far better sorted out in calmer times. As with changing the electoral college, it looks like pie in the sky. Come back exile. All is forgiven...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 12:58 AM

Well the true bar for Trump would have been, should have been, the Republican Party.



The entire world is beset with demogogues and autocrats usurping democracies:
India
Poland
Hungary
Russia (they were trying for a democracy for the second time in a hundred years).
Turkey
Phillipines

Most of these leaders have been genuinely, for want of a better word, elected.

And then there's Venezuela.

The EIU Democracy Index now rates the United States as a "flawed' democracy, but at least we're ahead of Botswana.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 03:25 AM

Giving a pardon to Steve Bannon seems a tactical error to me. His crime was essentially stealing the money Trump supporters sent in to pay for The Wall. That means it directly affects Trump supporters and says to them that "Stealing from you is no big deal." Most other pardons are more remote from individual voters but that one can be taken as a personal insult to Trump supporters. Thar's a risky game.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 04:03 AM

You've got the wrong country, robomatic. Botswana appears to be a model democracy from all I've heard. I suspect maybe you might have meant its neighbour Zimbabwe, which isn't.
..................
The 14th Amendment didn't lay down any procedures for determining that someone qualified. I would think that that automatically means that the responsibility for determining it would ultimately lie with the courts, as with any other criminal act. I can't imagine that if Trump seeks to run there won't be an effort to challenge his right to do so through the courts. That would especially so if there was any question of his being entitled to any public .

Here is what I'm referring to.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 04:28 AM

Page not found, Kevin.

I fear that waiting until he tried to stand again for office before acting would considerably weaken the case against him. "Why didn't you go for him straight away?" would be a bit of a bugger to answer... On the other hand, failed attempts now, or attempts that got mired for months or years in the courts, would be just as bad. He isn't necessarily in a weak position, and that needs to be recognised.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 06:10 AM

You'd have to be a pretty dedicated Brit observer of US politics before you could get your head around the labyrinthine US system of caucuses/open and closed primaries/ conventions for choosing your presidential candidates. I've heard of a few small, or not so small, voices within the GOP lamenting what's happened to the party and calling for a reset. I'd like to hear from you savvy yanks whether you think there could be enough groundswell in the party to preclude him from standing again (obviating the need for congressional processes, which are in danger of failing, to remove the possibility), or whether there could still be too much popular support for him, thereby sweeping away those doubts. Again, it's always best in these debates to leave your personal wishes at the door...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 06:22 AM

Is the Republican party torn by internal division? We can only hope our Tories will go the same way but, for now, that seems to be the prerogative of the Labour party!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 06:36 AM

It's a bit like when there's plenty of money in the bank, Dave (not that I'd know). Little crises that might cause splits can be overridden. Money-in-the-bank for the Tories is their big majority. If they were to lose most or all of that majority next time round, there would be splits, but whether that would be enough to wreck 'em kind of hinges on Labour not having even bigger splits...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 07:03 AM

Funny though, isn’t it Steve, that when I appeal for unity in the Labour Party and support for the democratically-elected leader in order to concentrate on fighting the worst Tory government we’ve had for a great many years, I’m jumped on and lambasted by our resident Corbynistas?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 07:22 AM

You're assuming that you've been right all along about Jeremy Corbyn. The splits in the party were caused not by him but by his opponents (constantly briefing against him, using the bogus antisemitism nonsense as a stick to beat him with, refusing to be in his shadow cabinet, etc. A death wish by the party right...). There's a very interesting new book that's been given excellent reviews, even by the right-wing press (before you say anything) that gives what's been described as a very honest account of Corbyn's leadership and what went wrong for him, This Land by Owen Jones. I'll be buying it. Corbyn stunned the pundits by robbing May of her majority in 2017. The Tories didn't like it, the media didn't like it and the right wing in the Labour Party didn't like it. So, next time round, out came the big guns...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 07:25 AM

It's also very noticeable that "appealing for unity in the Labour Party" means precisely the same thing as "piss off you lefties..."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 07:31 AM

I don't want to act as policeman here, by any means, but a lot of the recent posts should surely by the UK politics thread, not the one about Trump's Actions?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 07:53 AM

”It's also very noticeable that "appealing for unity in the Labour Party" means precisely the same thing as "piss off you lefties..."

That’s an interpretation you have chosen to put on it Steve. You’re the one who brings up ‘lefties’, etc., not me. Own your prejudice.

When I talk about ‘unity in the LP’, I’m asking for both sides to bury the hatchet and work together for the good, not only of the Party, but also of the vast majority of the people of this country.

And yes, DMcG, I agree that this discussion would be better placed in the UK Politics thread, but others raised it here.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 08:29 AM

The missing link was to a Federal government site about the procedures for paying money people running for president, including in the primaries. For some reason the lik doesn't work.

The point is, it's not a question of anybody barring him from election, it's about getting a court to confirm that by his own actions he has already done that to himself. It wouldn't need to be the government to launch a legal challenge. Whether the court would confirm that is an open question - but. I don't thank that any of the people he shoehorned into office would be likely to be affected by some sense of loyalty or gratitude in making their ruling.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 10:01 AM

Have copied the Brit posts from here to the brexit thread so that we can carry on squabbling over there.


If we want to!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 10:07 AM

I would think that a court would have to convict him first: you can't go around in the justice system banning people just because you don't like what they did. Either that or someone does it via some kind of civil action. Anyway, he's gone, but with the not-so-veiled threat that he'll be back. Be very afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 11:02 AM

Who hired the Trump impersonator that appeared at the door , dropped trou and mooned the Biden inuguration and left?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 11:43 AM

'twas I that mentioned UK parties but it was in comparison with the US Republican party. I also asked if that party was split and another question springs to mind. It only seems recent that the UK news outlets are referring to them as the "GOP". Is this significant?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 12:00 PM

Don't read anything into the use of the term GOP. Today the Gop are the minority of Republicans that belong to the https://lincolnproject.us/

The remainder is the mob and Trump movrment which will shrink over time and indictments.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 12:11 PM

As you sow, so shall you reap. The reaping, for Donald Trump, is about to begin. The bastard will probably spend the afternoon out on the golf course. Let's hope these are his last relaxing hours. I wonder if he's even going to have an attorney at his impeachment trial. And I look forward to his being stripped of all of the usual perks of a former U.S. president.

His presentations of the presidential medals of freedom or honor will always have an asterisk, because they were given to cronies of no particular importance, people who lied for Trump, who didn't give great service to the nation.

Trump identified cracks in our laws and exploited them; now is the time to restore things to rights and fix the ones that were always broken.
I'm going to close this thread, and start a new one to follow Trump's court cases, and perhaps his managing to find a social media platform that won't kick him out - where he can spew more vitriol. If he manages to form a party it can serve as the foundation of a self-identified list of those to prosecute for the assault on the Capitol.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM

The case has been made that Trump is still doing stupid stuff, and there are things from his administration that are now being shared that don't have to do with his prosecution. The post I received suggested his prosecution isn't as interesting (!) as his other nonsense. Personally I'm dying to read what happens to his fat ass in court, hoping he can't run out the clock like he usually does.

But here it is, the continuation of Trump's "Actions and Effects." and for your perusal, the New York Times ran an article about the truly awful scammers Trump pardoned on his way out the door. For Prosecutors, Trump’s Clemency Decisions Were a ‘Kick in the Teeth’

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 10:56 AM

I don't argue with the NYT but there is new information that the pardons that were crafted by an inferior lawyer has defined the pardons so narrowly that all the admissions of guilt to additional crimes to obtain a plea bargain can still be prosecuted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM

This is the 21st Century, why would a modern democracy like the USA
still allow a king.. oops.. president
absolute powers to decree pardons on the merest royal.. oops.. presidential whim...!!!?????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jos
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 11:22 AM

The US President issues a ceremonial pardon to a turkey every Thanksgiving.
[But I have heard somewhere that the turkey's reprieve expires not long after the close of the ceremony.]

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 02:12 PM

I'm catching up on this thread now that it is re-opened, but this was a good article:

Donald Trump was a 'demagogue president' and 'sociopath', says former FBI director James Comey

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 02:17 PM

The link posted by McGrath of Harlow 20 Jan 21 - 04:03 AM about receiving public funding didn't work but the page with general information is here:

Understanding public funding of presidential elections

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 02:21 PM

I still don't [perhaps never will] understand how the supposed beacon of planetary democracy
hands such absolute powers to one individual human being,
on the presumption a president will not turn out to be too crazy evil...?????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 03:19 PM

Well, one crazy evil every couple of hundred years is all right, isn't it? Not a bad innings.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects¿
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 03:36 PM

"why would a modern democracy like the USA..."

The thing is the USA is not "a modern democracy". It's constitutional arrangements are 250 years old, and it's virtually impossible to adjust them to match the needs and the possibilities of today's world. The undead Founding Fathers still have the last word, and the President has powers that even King George never had.

It's amazing the place can even function.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 03:37 PM

A hard won revolutionary war to escape the tyranny of British monarchy..

So the victorious free democratic yanks then go and hand a presidential leader far more absolute arbitrary powers
than our ornamental old Queen Lizzie could ever dream of...!!!????????????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM

Two Brits cross posting on the same basic point..

Yank mates, you might need a rethink...???

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:22 PM

As sore loser brits celebrate the fall of the US constitution it is actully alive and well. It was Rupurt Murdoch and a private company that had the most deleterious results on the minds of people talked into victimhood and lies. The US has racist woes and brits have a few of their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:26 PM

Sore loser Brits? You're a bit twisted, mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:54 PM

" It was Rupurt Murdoch and a private company that.."

.. it's you yanks, with your too easily abused political & legal systems,
wot took your eye off the ball
and nearly let a new wannabe h1tler rule the world..

No good blaming any bugger else...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 06:22 PM

To be fair, it wasn't all yanks. We've lived through a bloody nightmare for four years (yanks more than anyone), and enough yanks have recoiled in order to end it...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 06:24 PM

I wanted to respond to McGrath thinking I'd confused Botswana with Zimbabwe. Going back to that list of Democracies, no I hadn't. The U.S. still listed much much higher than Zimbabwe, but the Economist, which I think makes up the list of democracies, had placed the U.S. in a population listed as 'troubled'. But the standards of that list are still relatively high and we are still ahead of Botswana.

Good Times.

Wouldn't surprise me if we do a bit of climbing on that list after the most recent U.S. election.

SRS has started a fresh thread specifically for legal and legislative repercussions to the former Occupant. I think this thread still has validity to societal and political implications that involve The Donald and his acolytes, because they are not going away.

Back to troubled democracies:

I had omitted from my list the most Trump-like of the other South American leaders: Bolsanaro of Brazil.

Subject: RE: BS: BIDEN Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 06:41 PM

Joe is calm cool and collected as he makes humane decisions.
Joes religion is integral to his personality unlike aprosletizing Christians and a back biting Christian I've met here. His intellect is substantial enough to follow science while his predesesor could not.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 07:12 PM

Nice thoughts, Don'l. We'll SEE.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 07:52 PM

"To be fair, it wasn't all yanks."

well.. if the Dems hadn't so self-defeatingly selected such a lame candidate as Clinton to oppose trump...

Couldn't they hear us all on this side of the Atlantic
groaning in exasperation at how crap she was...!!!?????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 09:02 PM

You forgot. We put clothes pins on our noses and voted for democracy's sake .

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 09:30 PM

I was all for Hillary in '08, only changed to Obama for non-Hillary reasons. And was glad I did; just wish I could've voted for him a third time. And in a way, I did.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:24 AM

Sore Brit? The only thing I'd be sore at is being accused of being a Brit. (And I've never in my life met any "Brit" who has the least resentment at the American Revolution. It seems to be seen generally as very much a sideshow, a warm-up event for the French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars.)

But there is something strange about the quasi-religious attitude that seems to pervade how many Americans in regard to the details of far-off time. It's different to the way other countries seem to treat their analogous events. The French Revolution or the Easter Rising are honoured and celebrated, but they aren't seen as setting the boundaries of how things should be today.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:14 AM

yes, I've noticed how even some supposedly liberal progressive yanks,
can still get knee-jerkingly aggressively defensive
if any Brit dares to criticise the hallowed US of A...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:38 AM

Sorry you got knee-jerkingly aggressively defensively kneed in the balls.

Sounds like different countries teach history differently dontcha think

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:51 AM

We don't get brainwashed from infanthood having to salute the flag at school...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM

I think you will find that Rupert Murdock is Australian, not British.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:58 AM

That's Murdoch!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:26 AM

Back to the topic at hand:

The New York Times published a huge article last night Trump and Justice Dept. Lawyer Said to Have Plotted to Oust Acting Attorney General about Trump in cahoots with an Justice Department lawyer to try to overturn the Georgia election. Apparently they thought if they could push Georgia to cave on the results that the other swing states would follow.

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department’s top leaders listened in stunned silence this month: One of their peers, they were told, had devised a plan with President Donald J. Trump to oust Jeffrey A. Rosen as acting attorney general and wield the department’s power to force Georgia state lawmakers to overturn its presidential election results.

The unassuming lawyer who worked on the plan, Jeffrey Clark, had been devising ways to cast doubt on the election results and to bolster Mr. Trump’s continuing legal battles and the pressure on Georgia politicians. Because Mr. Rosen had refused the president’s entreaties to carry out those plans, Mr. Trump was about to decide whether to fire Mr. Rosen and replace him with Mr. Clark.

This guy is toast, and so, now, is Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:29 AM

Good Gawd EVERYONE knows he was Australian.
Hey robo by any chance have you ever seen a robokiller commercial?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:42 AM

Raggytash time to play catchup. archives

If Donald had gone through with his own Saturday night massacre a mass resignation would be the news and not him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:44 AM

Then your use of the term "Brits" on either side of your mention of his name denotes a very poor use of the English language.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 02:51 PM

Rupert Murdoch, our most successful export! We lost him - i.e. we WON! - and the Brits won him - i.e. they LOST!

Unfortunately Murdoch's influence extends outside of the UK but the majority of our politicians don't give him much credence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 05:14 PM

Guys - for business purposes he is an American now

Now what does Brits rhyme with?

Who is happiest about Donald's departure?
The White House bathroom attendant.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 05:24 PM

wit

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 05:35 PM

.. but seeing as you used the plural "Brits" = wits

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:30 PM

Great bit on the News Quiz on Radio 4 this weekend:

Yank panellist: "Aubergine: isn't that your name for eggplant?"

Brit panellist: "No. Aubergine is our name for aubergines."   

Brilliant!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 01:37 AM

I spent some of my formative years in the birthplace of our nation:

Massachusetts.

Class trips and my own perambulations have taken me to the origin of our War of Independence, Lexington Square, and Concord Bridge.

They are indeed hallowed. Concord Bridge especially has been kept up most wonderfully and is well worth a visit. Lexington square is a bit grown built-up, but there is a monument and you can get good Chinese food round the corner.

But, when I was very young, it so happened that there was a British kid in our class and we very nicely asked him how British history treated the American Revolution, and he answered us that it really didn't, because there was a lot of other stuff happening.

It seemed quite reasonable and none of us were at all put out about it.

It's sort of like when Christians with no other background ask Jews what about Jesus in their history and the answer is Jesus ain't in our history. We were doing other stuff at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 05:24 AM

But, when I was very young, it so happened that there was a British kid in our class and we very nicely asked him how British history treated the American Revolution, and he answered us that it really didn't, because there was a lot of other stuff happening.



When I was growing up, here in England, I knew about the Boston Tea Party, Paul Revere's midnight ride and George Washington. Even now, other than King George III, I can't recall any names on the British side.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: fat B****rd
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 03:07 PM

As a "mature" student in 2007-8 I took Higher History. In a unanimous decision we "did" the American Civil Rights Movement because our tutor said it was "sexier" than UK Economics.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 06:56 PM

The American War of Independence is so different when you learn it as a kid. I don't know if it is taught the same way (or at all) for a bunch of reasons:

1) War of Independence versus Revolution. Now I think there were two separate occasions. Fighting the British was to achieve independence. The people who were branded 'Tories' would've branded themselves 'Loyalists'. I understand the population broke down into rough thirds: A third for independence, a third for loyalists, and a third that didn't really care. Some of the fighting was harsh.

2) Impact on young British Canada: Many of the American Loyalists lost their land and removed themselves to Canada, where they created their own mini-revolution in that at the time Canada was mainly French citizens administered by an English governing / military force. A significant new population of English speaking new citizens wanted their rights recognized.

3) Impact on France. The French government spent a lot of money on support for the American cause. It was their fleet that bottled up the English in Yorktown to seal the colonial victory. And it lead to the French Revolution when the French Royalists were out of dough to support their economically challenged population.

4) The issue of slavery has been soft pedalled for generations. As part of the Yorktown surrender the Americans required the British to return their property, being slaves to whom the English had promised their freedom.

5) Even after Yorktown there was no guarantee of American success. One of the main secrets to the success of the new nation was the protracted negotiations that spelled out just what that colonial victory meant. Read a great book called "The Perils of Peace" which spelled it out.

6) The actual Revolution: Came with the Constitutional Convention and its draft product which we still argue about to this day. The notion of a governmental structure based literally on the interpretation of a piece of paper. As mentioned by Franklin: "A Republic, if you can keep it."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 07:06 AM

The only time I seem to remember we touched upon the American events were in the context of the causes of the French Revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 10:18 AM

I only lived in Boston for 4 years. It really is historic and in certain ways more trusting yet racist than NYC.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 11:22 AM

Just a thought:

For a while, at least before the inauguration in which
Joseph Biden became the US President,
it had sense that Donald Trump would have two threads in BS
with his name on them.
Now that he no longer lives or works in the District of Columbia,
could we please have just one Donald Trump thread
instead of two Trump threads?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 12:07 PM

Keb - On my PC desktop, I've simplified things even further to archive links I keep
for further reference on folks in politics..

Two folders.. "GOOD GUYS" and "OBNOXIOUS PRICKS"...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 01:01 PM

We've already discussed and sorted this one. This thread continues to reveal the facts behind his misbehavior while he was in office, the other one will, if it proceeds as planned, will follow the court cases.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 01:02 PM

Surely there are some who fall in between, or move between the two extremes?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 01:10 PM

McGrath - yeah.. dodgy grey hat 'anti-heroes' are accounted for..

For them, I place duplicate links in each folder...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 01:11 PM

.. they tend to be my kind of people...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 12:03 AM

Keb:

I think this thread is for non legal matters that involve Trump's effects on the country and allows for more freedom of subject matter, such as the wandering into how democratic countries are that we veered into above.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 12:22 AM

My belief is this thread is about a big general UH OH regarding trends in corruption.

TODAYS TREND is that after 8 years of California drought, the richest and fatest have made water a commodity like gold or oil and will allow investors to invest in WATER FUTURES. Speculation by Hedge Funds will fuel its price. Wall St will help insure that money can be made from human misery or any other extraneous life that depends on water.
Wanna git in on the ground floor? Save your spit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 02:47 PM

Trump didn't cause troubles so much as exploit them. Here are some long-term trends that I don't see going away:

slow, constant loss of real income among lower-status families
fatherlessness
lack of scientific knowledge
lack of experience in the real world versus digital products
increasing lack of knowledge of how to raise children.
substance abuse, which increases anger, costs precious money, and
    impedes intelligent thought

All these things lead to a large body of people who are looking for a savior - a daddy- a superman - to change their lives.

When Trump finally wanted the rioters to go home, he said "We love you," two times. Why? Because he was their daddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 05:48 PM

There was a line from an old detective TV show where the private eye has discovered something in the past of the femme fatale and she says:
"Just what rock did you crawl out from?"
And he answers
"I didn't crawl out, ma'am, you found that rock and turned it over all by yourself!"

That's one description of what happened with Trmp. He was out there all the time, it took the public watching him on television, and it took the public voting for him, which they did, enough to elect him once and enough to come way too close to electing him again. Trmp can't help being Trmp, but the problem is that America made Trmp possible and electable.

But life has changed, for sure, Some of it's Trmp, some of it's Covid, and some of it is the interplay. And most of it is fallout of technology.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:19 AM

I want leenia write a story for the Atlantic titled 'Daddy Issues'

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:23 AM

robo the Trump saga could easily be a modern day film noire with an upbeat Vida Trump Loca soundtrack..

Subject: RE: Flush Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:41 AM

If only there was a legal legal remedy to send Trump home, his original home, Flushing, a neighborhood in the north-central portion of the New York City borough of Queens. The neighborhood is the fourth-largest central business district in New York City. Downtown Flushing, a major commercial and retail area centered around the intersection of Main Street and Roosevelt Avenue, is the third-busiest intersection in New York City, behind Times Square and Herald Square.

Flushing was established as a settlement of New Netherland on October 10, 1645, on the eastern bank of Flushing Creek. In 1898, Flushing was consolidated into the City of New York. Development came in the early 20th century with the construction of bridges and public transportation. An immigrant population, composed mostly of Chinese and Koreans, settled in Flushing in the late 20th century.

Flushing contains numerous residential subsections, and its diversity is reflected by the numerous ethnic groups that Trump grew to hate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:48 AM

Everytime he flushes his gold toilet he feels a little homesick with recollections of his youth.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 11:09 AM

As time passes the GOP seem to hope the events of Jan. 6, if not the full past four years, fade from memory. They can just forget about it. Trump needs to face the criminal justice system, not just the House and Senate in this second impeachment.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 12:06 PM

Humor returns to the White House as Joe gives a FOX reporter a smart answer at the end of a briefing.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 05:11 PM

I really did lol.

pfr I have 3 folders.. "GOOD GUYS" and "OBNOXIOUS PRICKS"...
and totally full of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:18 PM

I heard of this first from an AM radio station, I think it was cast in a negative light of how it was a snap response that might indicate senility. You can't even have a sense of humor anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:31 PM

Most AM radio has a right wing extremist viewpoint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:45 PM

https://www.dhs.gov/ntas/advisory/national-terrorism-advisory-system-bulletin-january-27-2021

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:45 PM

I sort of use the term 'AM Radio' as a synonym for 'hard right wing' but there you go Don'l making the obvious even more obvious. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:53 PM

Its obvious to us but not members on Greenwich time or down under.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 07:27 AM

Republicans are pursuing new voter restriction laws as a result of Trump's loss. To absentee vote they want people to submit special Voter ID to get a ballot IN PERSON and then a second time when they mail it.

Isn't that like being required to attend Zoom meetings in person?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 08:10 PM

In a way, Obama was a case of three steps forward, Trump was a case of two and a half steps back, but he was so out of balance he led to a rapid three steps forward again. Just not for Republicans. They are deeply divided and many of their course directions such as voter limitation and qualifications are likely to lead to severe pushbacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump and Cheek Alert
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 06:36 AM

For decades scientists have models that social unrest is at its foundation a parasitic brain infection that spreads easily among socioconomic groups. I'm not saying its true but the theories are numerous and ongoing. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991276/

Are varying degrees of Q anon fever at pandemic proportions ? 8^I
Steve have you felt different ever since Q fever?
Senofou sounds completely healed ;^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 11:02 AM

Steve mentioned that on a different thread, Don. Several flippant responses have been deleted. (It is a "thing," Steve had it. Look it up.)

From CNN today:

Nine days after newly sworn-in President Joe Biden told America that "every disagreement doesn't have to be a cause for total war," recriminations between the parties and the Republican meltdown are consuming Congress.

It's now clear that the January 6 mob attack on Capitol Hill, while failing in its bid to reverse Trump's election loss, has utterly fractured the basic level of trust needed to make a political system function — at a critical national moment.

In the quarter century of bitter political battles since former speaker Newt Gingrich's Republican revolution, Washington has never been this inflamed.

At times on Thursday, it appeared that the whole of Congress was fixated on its own civil wars, cut off from behind its high iron fence from the reality of America's darkest modern winter.

I was listening to a discussion yesterday about the way the GOP has, over the years, accepted more conservative racist elements that have completely altered the face of the party that was once simply fiscally conservative. When Johnson (who himself was a racist) went with the Civil Rights movement, many Southern Democrats bailed on the party and joined the GOP; when Reagan ran and invited in the "Moral Majority" group, they made a huge impact on the direction of the party. And then there was the Tea Party gang that hopped on, and now that Trump has emptied the Q loony bin into the GOP the party is a Juggernaut that is aiming at completely altering the face of America.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 04:21 PM

Of course I agree with the mistrust issues! I gathered that Steve was starting to repeat the fact that republican Senator jurors would not vote against their king.

To regain that trust could take extraordinary admissions even including that the US knows more about ufo's than the misinformation we have gotten for decades. The average person doesn't know much about reconcilliation rules but they are 'experts' on ufos.
After all, we're dealing with average Joes.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 06:34 PM

You are way too kind to him, Maggie. I'm bloody sick and tired of this bloke misrepresenting me, to the point of telling lies. I mean, Maggie, how many times have I said that THERE IS NO JURY? Please reread his last post. So he's a fellow yank and I'm just a Brit...OK, I didn't mean that, but begod you've got me thinking...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 06:38 PM

To be honest, Stilly seems like the only one here who understands that US Founding fathers and Constituton writers recognized that 'reason' had to have an equal chance to counter/balance 'passion' for the nation to endure. Now we are dealing with an overflowing river of misinformation and mistrust from Facebook tributaries. Wall St. helped flood the nation with the 2008 home foreclosure crises. Mistrust is a natural outcome. Misinformation from the KKK segment of society enticed moderate whites who felt victimized. They are NOT the majority except in guns. With a President who parrots people's suspicions, the misinformation has hardened. We even have our own Joe O who puruses neo nazi history revisionist websites and posts their viewpoint as in the This land thread. Since he is still in a denial mode there is still hope for reason to return, his pm's not withstanding. Growing up I read The Minority of One. Today I feel like I am one.
Trump in this light is a symptom and not a cause but believe me he has caused alot along with his advisor Steve Bannon.

Yes I can prove I have warned of a risk of civil war insurrection for several decades and now I find others may take this too lightly. That is my worry and insecurity and not an accusation. Perhaps I am not a minority of one. BUT IT IS THE BEST OF TIMES AND THE WORST OF TIMES.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 07:35 PM

I too puruse the right wing media as I was taught as a child to "look into the wolf's mouth to see what it is eating". So I may be wrong about the allgience of others who might do the same.
A couple days ago it was Holocaust Rememberence day. It was not mentioned here unless Jack Campin said something. We are in a type of holocaust now but you can see where I am coming from when I say this community, while smart, has some short comings I have tried to mend be it facism, disgraphia, dyslexia, autism, stubborness, and my all time fav Grumpiness :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 07:53 PM

It was mentioned in our house. On the nights we crack a bottle open, we chink glasses in honour of (lemme see....) our kids, our beloved grandchild, my mum, anyone who's spoken out... So last night we raised a glass to all the Holocaust dead and all those who have fought for justice over the last seven decades since. Tears shed this end. No need to go large on Mudcat if you don't mind. The fact that we didn't reflects absolutely nothing. And do be advised that you have misused the word Holocaust in your post, thereby diminishing the word's true impact. What you think the US is suffering now is by no means equivalent. So please do not abuse that word. There's something wrong with you if you can't see how offensive that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 07:53 PM

Surely you don't have to look into a wolf's mouth to determine its diet? Just check out its food bowl...

On my first trip up the Alaska Highway I noticed that a Canadian pony had a huge scar across its belly. "What happened to her?" "Wolves" "Had she wondered off?" " She was across the street!"

Don'l you at times seem near rational, but you have been and remain a source of Trumpiness.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 08:06 PM

You do a lot better than I do at channelling outrage, robo. Respect, mate...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 08:25 PM

My take away from my grumpy friend's posts is habitual teasing grumpiness.
Nor am I inclined to suspect they suffer from psychosis, but narcisisim
is a possibility for one.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 09:01 PM

Biden's approval rating at 45% is higher than Trump's ever was. But when it comes to Biden's Covid relief Bill the approval rating is 69% !
Things are looking up.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 09:27 PM

Donald Trump - 'The perfect target’: Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy

The KGB ‘played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality’, Yuri Shvets, a key source for a new book, tells the Guardian

Donald Trump was cultivated as a Russian asset over 40 years and proved so willing to parrot anti-western propaganda that there were celebrations in Moscow, a former KGB spy has told the Guardian.

Yuri Shvets, posted to Washington by the Soviet Union in the 1980s, compares the former US president to “the Cambridge five”, the British spy ring that passed secrets to Moscow during the second world war and early cold war.

Now 67, Shvets is a key source for American Kompromat, a new book by journalist Craig Unger, whose previous works include House of Trump, House of Putin. The book also explores the former president’s relationship with the disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein.

“This is an example where people were recruited when they were just students and then they rose to important positions; something like that was happening with Trump,” Shvets said by phone on Monday from his home in Virginia.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 06:42 PM

There is no end to the ability to play Trump, including playing his absence...
When you can't sell the steak, sell the sizzle.

When the steak stinks, sell the air freshener.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM

heheheh when the air freshener stinks sell the bleach.

'Trunk's' lead 'impreachment' defense lawyer and another lawyer referred by Lyndsy Graham, 'Butch' Bower, have 'Q uit' !

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 09:48 AM

Sadly passion trumps decorum

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 11:17 AM

Apologies to Steve. Although the Senators are jurists in an impeachmeent trial they are a different kind of jury.
If thats what you meant?

Alex Jones is back in the news for passing along $300,000 to organizers of the Capitol attack.

OPTIONAL RANT: I hope Trump will found and fund his new Patriot Party (PeePee). Sane Republicans need a country club of their own abd Rethugricans can splinter off and join Trump with glee and shower him in PeePee autocracy. In no time America will decide which party is truly a fringe party.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 12:02 PM

We need at least two viable functioning parties in our political system, and if the flakes and zealots would peel off of the GOP and join Trump, the GOP has to resolve to never let the crackpots back into the tent. They've invited various groups - racists, moral majority, tea partiers, to their own detriment. A conservative party is fine; a party of crackpots is not.

A one-party political system is no longer a Democracy and is to be avoided at all costs.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 12:33 PM

P P.. Pity Party...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 03:29 PM

The closest US party to a Patriot Party historicly, was ironically called the Know Nothing Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 01:02 AM

So we've gone from Tea Party to Patriot Party?

From TeePee to PeePee?

You just can't make this stuff up!

One observation take it as you will, SNL needs Donald Trmp back in the news. It wasn't too good without him last night.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 09:07 PM

What is happening is they are still doing game show takeoffs which while a reliable way to mount a satire that is humorous and insightfully barbed, it can result in a sameness that has grown old over many many years.

Also, the recent incarnation of writers have a leader or core group that thinks that disgustingness or grossness is funny. I'm tired of it. Your mileage may vary.

The social bubble where everyone got arrested for reactionary activity was sort of fun, but ultimately not that barbed. Somewhat better was towards the end, the look at the 'new Georgia'. which has suddenly gone woke and blue-state.

Their musical guests have the characteristics of Wagner. Some inspired choices, mostly just uninspired or what's been up for the grammies or worse.

The high point is typically the news section.

Trmp gave them an almost endless supply of outrageousness that almost could be written straight into scripts. The closest they came to this was in the cold open when Kate MacKinnon interviewed "Marjorie Taylor Greene" who basically just recited her own tweets.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 04:23 AM

Donuel, just to keep the record straight, the Orange One (now the Faded One) did indeed reach and pass a 45% approval rating. He hit 49% four or five times. However, he never reached 50%.

A segue here- a thought that's bothered me for some time: All revolutions are traitorous, unless the rebels win. Right?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 03:16 PM

Off The Rails

Bonus episode: Inside the craziest meeting of the Trump presidency

This is a long read and is frankly the most astonishing thing I've read about as far as the people inside Trump's White House.

For example

The meeting had come entirely off the rails.

Byrne, backing up Flynn, told Trump the White House lawyers didn't care about him and were being obstructive. "Sir, we're both entrepreneurs, and we both built businesses," the former Overstock CEO told Trump. "We know that there are times you have to be creative and take different steps."

This was a remarkable level of personal familiarity, given it was the first time Byrne had met the president. All the stanchions and buffers between the White House and the outside world had crumbled.

Byrne kept attacking the senior White House staff in front of Trump. "They've already abandoned you," he told the president aggressively. Periodically during the meeting Flynn or Byrne challenged Trump's top staff — portraying them as disloyal: So do you think the president won or not?

At one point, with Flynn shouting, Byrne raised his hand to talk. He stood up and turned around to face Herschmann. "You're a quitter," he said. "You've been interfering with everything. You've been cutting us off."

"Do you even know who the fuck I am, you idiot?" Herschmann snapped back.

"Yeah, you're Patrick Cipollone," Byrne said.

"Wrong! Wrong, you idiot!"

The staff were now on their feet, standing behind one of the couches and facing the Powell crew at the Resolute Desk. Cipollone stood to Herschmann's left. Lyons, on his last day on the job, stood to Herschmann's right.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 05:28 PM

In the summer before the inauguration of Abraham Lincoln, Washington DC was known as the city of a thousand Stinks! Cows grazed on the White House pasture and chamber pots spilled into the streets. Dirt roads like Constitution Ave. churned the smelly rainy runoff into an applesauce of mud. The Washington canal poured an open fetid raw sewerage to 'aromatize' the entire pioneer city with an equality of stench. The mood of the country was turning muddier in November when Lincoln lost the popular vote but squeaked out a win by the electoral college. Lincoln won only by a plurality in 1861 because there were 3 candidates. The fights in the Senate Chamber preceded 1861 by a number of months. The largest Slave trading auctions in the nation took place until 1850 on what we now call the Mall. Even the statue atop the capitol was made by slaves.

Like today, back in 1861 troops were quartered in the US Capitol. Things in Washington still stink in regards to racism, institutional slavery and election results. In 1861 Fights took place on the Senate floor when a South Carolina Senator beat a fellow Senator after an anti slavery speech. A new President Lincoln faced long odds and an eventual stink of hundreds of thousands of rotting corpses in battle fields across the nation. The call of the south shall rise has never gone silent. Some of the modern attackers of the capitol last month had great grandfathers registered in the Confederate Army

In the first Civil War, the South was desperately lacking the manufacturing capabilities which spelled eventual defeat. They even had to smuggle printing plates to print money that were made in New Jersey. The lead for bullets and weapons came from England but that soon came to an end with a Blockade by the Union Navy. But today The South has oil and manufacturing factories like Mercedes and Toyota not to mention Cape Canaveral and Houston. Its no wonder a serious coup to take over America had a chance in the minds of neo-confederate sympathizers. But it was done by the gang who couldn't shoot straight – and worse than that, their 'Jefferson Davis' was a NY Yankee.

Just like the middle east Isis, the American Isis will be using Toyota and Chevy pick up trucks in their war for freedom. The Proud Boys will drive Mercedes like the Saudis.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 09:40 PM

Donuel, I always think your posts are worth reading - even if I miss some of the allusions to USA-specific topics. Creative, quirky, humourous, sometimes a bit sharp, always well-read with a broad general knowledge and sometimes specific knowledge of certain topics.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 10:17 PM

Under Trump effects: one of the three officers who have died during or following the January 6, 2021 coup Trump orchestrated honored.

Capitol Police Office Brian Sicknick is lying in state in the US Capitol as of tonight (he died at 9:30 the night after the assault on the Capitol, so they returned him at 9:30 tonight).

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/02/963336791/brian-sicknick-capitol-police-officer-slain-in-riot-will-lie-in-honor-in-rotunda

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 08:40 AM

Chronicaling true events is crucial to have a consensus of understanding. Opinion might be next. Parody is further down the line of importance but it amuses me. Science fiction was my first interest.
Vast general knowledge is much less marketable than focused expertise. Jack of all trades-master of none.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 09:29 AM

Truthfully I am not well read. I have had to memorize in an audible fashion and other tricks to circumvent the effects of dyslexia and migraine since birth. At 58 the migraines vanished. Woo HOO
Scientists suggest left angular gyrus irregularities but with such strong effects on the eyes I believe migraines have an occipital connection with hormone disruption.

Some of us have noticed that Donald Trump has damaged emotions. It is a complex issue that I would think first requires knowing where that damage effects a person in their brain.

1. Happiness activates several areas of the brain, including the right frontal cortex, the precuneus, the left amygdala, and the left insula. This activity involves connections between awareness (frontal cortex and insula) and the “feeling center” (amygdala) of the brain.

2. Fear activates the bilateral amygdala, the hypothalamus and areas of the left frontal cortex. This involves some thinking (frontal cortex), a “gut” feeling (amygdala), and a sense of urgency typically associated with survival (the hypothalamus.)

3. Sadness is associated with increased activity of the right occipital lobe, the left insula, the left thalamus the amygdala and the hippocampus. The hippocampus is strongly linked with memory, and it makes sense that awareness of certain memories is associated with feeling sad.

Sadness has been studied more than the other emotions because depression may last for a long time; the effects of antidepressants can be measured based on improved symptoms.

4. Disgust is an interesting feeling that is often associated with avoidance. This emotion that is associated with activation and connections between the left amygdala, the left inferior frontal cortex, and the insular cortex.

5. Anger is an important emotion that many people, adults and children alike, try to control. Anger is associated with activation of the right hippocampus, the amygdala, both sides of the prefrontal cortex and the insular cortex.

6. Surprise is an emotion that can either make you feel good or it can make you feel bad. Surprise activates the bilateral inferior frontal gyrus and the bilateral hippocampus. The hippocampus is strongly associated with memory, and the element of surprise is, by nature, associated with experiencing something that you do not remember or do not expect.

Localized disease in the brain can cause cross over cascading events to other areas of emotion.

definitions and location of emotions is from Neurologic review
https://www.neurologylive.com/view/how-brain-processes-emotions

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 09:44 AM

Perhaps you noticed Empathy is not considered an emotion.
Without empathy more or less degrees of sociocpathology emerge.
Some got it and some don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 10:00 AM

An IQ of 80 does not make me a genius, nor have I ever claimed such misinformation as yours pfr. Lets stick to ideas and not fear or anger if you can.

I will never disclose a private message. Its a matter of respect.

As for the sociopaths in society they often hold high positions and seldom obey rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 10:34 AM

"I will never disclose a private message. Its a matter of respect."

Neither have I, or ever would..

Did I copy and paste your PM here..???

No, that would have been a breach of confidence..

But when a pattern begins to emerge of an individual abusing the PM system
to conduct secretive grudge agendas..

Then it is fair to refer to such snidey PMs in public forum..


I've made it clear many times before that I do not to use PMs,
unless I reply politely to any worth responding to..
I always prefer open transparent communications here in mudcat threads..

So, it is you who needs to treat the PM system with proper due respect...!!!

More and more similarities between you and trump are becoming revealed...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 12:30 PM

so full of sturm and drang signifying nothing

Meanwhile back at his resort ..... contorts the truth

I'd rather be
a deputy
of Biden than a prisoner
of the trump
Joe lets us in
Knows where we've been
In his empathy and truth
From DC
I'd ask my friends
To come and see
A Senate passing good laws
With me
I'd like to be
happy and free
With a Biden's White House
In the shade
We would be warm
Below the storm
In our little happy home
where we live
Singing out loud
and feeling so proud
In a democratic land
Near the sea
We would sing
And could bring
Equality
to share the joy of life
I'd like to be
a deputy
of Biden than a prisoner
of trump's autocracy
We would shout
And swim about
the the lakes and clean shores
Of our seas

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 02:06 PM

Can we get back to the topic of the thread please? Any personal comments about behaviour should be about the Trump, surely, and not about people posting here.

Looking on the bright side, Trump's current actions and effects have far less influence now than they did a couple of weeks ago, although I wouldn't put his influence out to pasture just yet because he is still plotting and planning in his dark, dank robber's cave. On the other hand, Trump's past actions are still reverberating, not least of which is the criminal (IMO) failure to protect the American people from harm, especially from COVID but also from insurrection.

The impeachment trial probably won't appear to achieve the desired outcome, but the fact that it is going ahead on 8 Feb is an outcome in itself. I'm looking forward to seeing the civil actions against him after that is over.

---

Off topic posts thinned out - please do stop the personal attacks and stick to the subject. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 03:11 PM

Thank you, O anonymous and legendary mudelf.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 04:40 PM

1.3 Billion dollar lawsuits speak louder than lies.
News Max channel has supported the the election conspiracy lie by Trump for years but now they have changed their reporting. A bit too late imo

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 04:50 PM

The plaintiff, Dominion Voting machines, claims damages including death threats, financial loss and could sue Trump directly and not just Rudy and lieing 'news' channels. Sorry you don't like color Helen or seeing other people's true colors. Good on you. The sun is back.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 08:19 AM

Psychologicaly when a person's emotions are broken, a secondary paranoia can overwhelm an individual. For example a black person in the US experiences many examples of law enforcement attacking and killing people like themselves and begin to generalize that all law enforcement are murdering bastards. Now after the attack on the capitol many white people have experienced for the first time that members of law enforcement among the mob were willing to put in jeopardy or kill them is a shock to their psyche. Learning the likelihood that the police can be the enemy is new to many white people who were not inclined to be criminals. Eventually a person can see personal attacks everywhere until physical health is also endangered.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 08:40 PM

Trmp resigns from Screen Actors Guild

He wrote a blatant letter in which the oprative phrase from his point of view is: "You have done nothing for me."

Pretty much sums up his attitude.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Feb 21 - 12:30 AM

Tonight on the Rachel Maddow Show she's talking about how Trump refuses to call himself the former president. He has set up the office of the 45th President of the US, he's still using the presidential seal. I wonder how long he'll get away with that BS.

Pence has set up an office of the former Vice President, something like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Feb 21 - 04:53 PM

Interesting you bring up Rachel Maddow. My hiking buddy is reading Bag Man and is getting me to read it, too. It's about Spiro Agnew and apparently has much to recommend it as an example of how things have NOT changed all that much.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Feb 21 - 10:51 AM

I have that book in my tablet but haven't started it yet. It sounds fascinating (there was a blog on the same topic, which is why she expanded it into book form).

From The Guardian

"It was not just May who found Trump unsettling: to European diplomatic observers, he seemed a “strange creature”. And he also triggered alarm among some American officials in the room with him, with one defence official noting that the president’s notoriously short attention span suggested a “squirrel careening through the traffic”."

How Donald Trump's hand-holding led to panicky call home by Theresa May

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 21 - 07:52 PM

The feeling this end is that Trump is almost certain to be acquitted by the Senate. Whatever else happens, you have to find a way of preventing him from standing in 2024. I can't help feeling that the danger is far from over.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Feb 21 - 08:29 PM

Oh sure... not enough Republicans are brave enough to vote to convict. It IS a useful way to make a point, though.
I am waiting for all the state indictments that will be filed after the show trial... I think Letitia James has over 60... and Georgia is working on some.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 21 - 09:01 PM

I can't find the damn thing now after 15 minutes' searching, and it's past my bedtime, but I hear that a poll concluded that only a narrow majority think that Trump should be convicted/punished (maybe you can find it). He still has masses of supporters, and that should worry us.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 01:43 AM

The Capitol Rioters Aren’t Like Other Extremists

We analyzed 193 people arrested in connection with the January 6 riot—and found a new kind of American radicalism.

On January 6, a mob of about 800 stormed the U.S. Capitol in support of former President Donald Trump, and many people made quick assumptions regarding who the insurrectionists were. Because a number of the rioters prominently displayed symbols of right-wing militias, for instance, some experts called for a crackdown on such groups. Violence organized and carried out by far-right militant organizations is disturbing, but it at least falls into a category familiar to law enforcement and the general public. However, a closer look at the people suspected of taking part in the Capitol riot suggests a different and potentially far more dangerous problem: a new kind of violent mass movement in which more “normal” Trump supporters—middle-class and, in many cases, middle-aged people without obvious ties to the far right—joined with extremists in an attempt to overturn a presidential election.

To understand the events of January 6 and devise solutions to prevent their recurrence, Americans need a fine-grained comprehension of who attacked the Capitol. Understanding the ideology and beliefs of those who commit political violence is important, but so is knowing what kind of people they are and what their lives are like.

For the past decade and a half, our research team at the Chicago Project on Security and Threats has conducted demographic studies of international and domestic terrorists.

The rest is at the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Feb 21 - 06:26 AM

For me, how easily ordinary people are, and historically have been swept along by right wing extremism and other forms of radicalisation should be a cause for concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 01:25 PM

During the discussion of the presentations ahead they said they assume families will be watching these hearings together, and will try to give warnings ahead of time for any graphic content so parents can decide if their children should see it. It seems that blood and death and damage are going to be part of the evidence, which is appropriate in this. Maybe they can shame the GOP into voting their conscience and not acquitting Trump out of fear of his "base."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 02:36 PM

I just read an Oz ABC News article which mentioned that Trump is now facing criminal charges from New York and Georgia for attempting to influence the elections.

In answer to a reader's question, "What is Trump doing whilst all this is going on?" the journalist said:

"Trump was probably doing the same as yesterday and watching it unfold on TV, and that 'apparently he was none too pleased with his defence team's performance yesterday'.

"He was 'basically screaming,' according to CNN’s Kaitlan Collins.

" 'Trump was especially disappointed in the performance of his lawyer Bruce Castor, who gave a rambling argument, wore an ill-fitting suit and at one point praised the case presented by the Democratic House impeachment managers,' two people involved in the effort told the Washington Post."

Trump “had expected a swashbuckling lawyer and instead watched what was a confusing and disjointed performance".


I guess the suit his lawyer was wearing is of the ultimate importance??!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 02:55 PM

"his lawyer Bruce Castor, who gave a rambling argument, wore an ill-fitting suit..."

Agent Orange should be flattered that his lawyer used him as his role-model.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 03:08 PM

Now that you mention it.....Yes! :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 04:31 PM

When trump dies, should his body be disposed of in a secret location,
like other notorious rogue leaders/dictators...???

Does America really need a grand monument to rally round in memory of him...???????

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 04:40 PM

Or should a statue be erected so that the pigeons have something to sh!t on?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 07:36 PM

Does the Senate's decision that the trial is constitutional carry constitutional weight? I'd was have thought that it does, and that in any future scenario it would be a pretty decisive precedent.

In which case there is no room for a Senator who voted for acquittal to argue that this was because they believed that it was unconstitutional, because this has already bee determined. The only thing they have any right to consider is guilt or inocence as charged.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 06:05 PM

CPAC in Orlando Looks to Be the Saddest, Stupidest CPAC Yet

The annual GOP clusterfuck is underway and the Trump kids are having a ball. Their father will speak and there's also a golden statue that matches the toilets in his various homes.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 06:36 PM

I think the statue is a good representation of the Trumpster. Tacky, overdone, silly, unflattering, in-your-face and difficult to ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 07:59 AM

The statue's
small stature
of 4 feet tall
says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 09:50 AM

It's a six-foot statue, but Trump argues that he's 6'4" (except of course you can compare him standing next to people who are that height and even his fluffed hair doesn't bring him to that measure.)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Pamber
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 11:55 AM

It's been said many times but he is probably the only person on earth who could make our BoJo look competent (well fairly competent)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 06:07 PM

He is over an hour into his diatribe as I type this. His main newsmaking line to this point is that he's not "starting a new party, that was false news." He is re-hashing all his old lines and gaining energy as he goes. Not too much hand gesturing.

Now he's going over his Republican enemies by name.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 12:24 AM

I would like to advance into the Biden presidency with the former office-abuser being silent. No tweeting, no speaking. I turned off the radio today when they started to play some of the crap he is speaking.

Media are going to have to come to grips with the idea that as long as they highlight his antics they are giving his foolish followers energy and Trump himself oxygen. They need to resist covering him, and in particular stop letting him see his own visage on the television.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: JHW
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 05:46 AM

News today, 1st March (not April) Trump to run again in 4 years time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 05:55 AM

There's a calmness afoot these days that's very welcome. However, I'm disappointed with the indulgence that the US is affording the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. That disappointment extends to all the bootlicking that the West does with regard to that corrupt, anti-democratic, misogynistic and murderous regime, but a shot across the bows from the US would have at least sent a message.

It's still the oil, innit...and any friend of Israel is a friend of mine...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 08:07 AM

WE all would like to move on Maggie but in the Ubited States of Amnesia we would have forgotten about orange being the new white by now. BUT cult hypnotic programing takes a while longer than usual.

Steve should list his US indulgences like released classified intelligence regarding the Prince murder of Jamal or the effort for Saudi to normalize relations with Syria or Biden's refusal to speak to the prince but called his father instead.
Steve by posting well over 500 times in Feb. you are popping off without new learning. Take more time listening and we will all be better off.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 08:10 AM

The conspiritorial gutterlism and the engineered repeatative sloganism are the Republican post hypnotic uggestions of today, same as yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 08:16 AM

I would like to remind folks of the difficulty involved in making a psrody of a reality that is BEYOND parody. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 04:01 PM

Don'l:

You are being unusually logical. It doesn't suit you. We are so far beyond parody in an age of golden fiberglass idols wearing stars'n stripes shorts that we are in an age of parody PARITY. We ALL know that we are in an outrageous face-off, thus we need to maintain a level of outrageousness that out-parodies the other guy's parody. That does leave open simply holding up a mirror to some fiberglass golden skinned figure wearing stars'n stripes shorts.

That is why despite your machinegun posts and mendacious moods and proclivities for Dontrumpuel - isms you have your uses. You remind us, whether or not we need the reminding, of the kind of tactics used by the oppressors.

That is why I have yet to get tired of you (though I hope to, someday).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 06:14 PM

"Steve should list his US indulgences like released classified intelligence regarding the Prince murder of Jamal or the effort for Saudi to normalize relations with Syria or Biden's refusal to speak to the prince but called his father instead.

Steve by posting well over 500 times in Feb. you are popping off without new learning. Take more time listening and we will all be better off."

I objected to this, and I object to the fact that some mod has deleted my objection. If you're going to delete my objection, mod, you should also consider deleting the post that I objected to. The last two lines of this are patronising and totally unjustified in their sentiment.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 06:16 PM

Thank you I never understood what you meant. Now I simply don't care.
I am like antimatter in a Trump universe I suppose. Watch the movie Tenet and see how matter moving backwards in time behaves. Richard Feynman had a point.
Get one! :^/
50 F today

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:16 PM

Never saw Tenet. Any good?

Matter or Anti-Matter forgodsake not a Trmp universe. I'm still adapting to the Tom Clancy universe which started 09/11/2001.

Have pity on Steve. He still thinks there's rules (that don't apply to him).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:26 PM

Well there should be a rule that says that a bloody idiot shouldn't be able to advise you in a condescending way how to learn things.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:51 PM

I feel remiss that I haven't given a link to one of the seminal art pieces of our time. Here is a slice of youtube showing the Trump golden statue creator wiping it down. I leave it to your imagination to figure out what he's cleaning it from, but I used the word 'seminal' purely in its metaphoric sense!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 02:39 PM

This past week, Republicans held a strategy where-are-we-now? meeting with their leader in exile, Donald 'the dumped' Trump.

This was at Mara Lago .

Trump's address departed prepared statements but as one might expect from, well, everything, was his attacks on Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence. The Republicans are not totally united, but the Republican party is still very much a party of Trump along with acolytes ready to steal, borrow, assume the mantle, with permission: current Florida Governor DeSantis and Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz.

I would love to say the plot 'sickens' but no, it's been pretty sick right along.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Apr 21 - 03:46 PM

One does wish that the folks handling the prosecutorial end of things would move along a little faster. Now THAT'S the trial I want to see televised (whichever of them comes along first).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 02:56 PM

I have a Musselliniesque fictional account in my head of the Q internet conspiracy turning against their Mr. Big and litterally tearing him apart in the most savage ways possible.
It would take less than two years and involves a revenge tell all book by Ivanka.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 10:48 AM

Stilly River Sage, are you a constituent
in this North Texas special election?

Look who paid a visit.

Trump crashes final days of Texas special election

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 11:10 AM

Nope. Wright (who died of COVID-19 after ignoring all of the safety measures recommended) had a highly-gerrymandered district to the east and southeast of me. Mine is just as bad, though. Kay Granger has swallowed most of the GOP party line, with very few exceptions (she actually supported health care a couple of times, I think.)

I heard one of the stations play part of Trump's remarks following the speech to the joint house and senate group - the news folks really do need to stop referring to him so he can truly fade away and become irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 May 21 - 09:59 AM

The way to counter all the voting obstruction laws is to REQUIRE all voters to present a Vaccination card.
heh heh heh

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 01 May 21 - 03:03 PM

Not a good idea Donuel partly because of the Tuskegee experiment and the hesitancy it created among African Americans - which I just heard about this week on an Australian ABC TV show - so there would possibly be a tendency for your idea to discriminate against them unintentionally.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 May 21 - 12:17 PM

Tuskegee was a long time ago and is very well known here, and isn't a good reason to avoid offering the entire population some kind of proof-of-vaccination, passport or other. Instead, making sure that today's individuals from all ethnic and racial groups have equal access and good information. Transparency is called for. Before that happens, though, a couple of major federal laws have to pass that render toothless all of the GOP legislation popping up in states that is designed to exclude and disenfranchise voters. So the goal for all sorts of other fair laws coming into place is to get rid of the filibuster. And there are two senators who steadfastly want to hold their seats so are not agreeing to vote to remove the filibuster. Some things are larger than those jobs, but you need to convince them of that. There have been people who knew it would work against them who still voted to approve valuable legislation, but that kind of altruism is rare.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 21 - 01:31 PM

Republicans have long demanded special voter ID cards. The 25% who are shunning vaccination are Republicans, ergo my earlier suggestion.

Putin has long said that elections are not determined by who votes for you but instaed, who counts the votes. The Cyber Ninjas are a trump-Q based group who is actually doing a vote recount of the Arizona ballots.
This akin to allowing only Republcans to vote.

round&round the vote polling place a poket full of ballots
But when only republicans can vote
POP goes democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 21 - 09:05 AM

Facebook's paid "panel" is going to decide whether to let Trump back on his Facebook account. They don't have anyone on that panel who really understands about disinformation and how destructive it is, so I fear the worst. Meanwhile, Trump started some kind of Wordpress blog to add to his website. That's his new "platform."

Facebook oversight board to give verdict on Donald Trump ban – live

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 21 - 09:28 AM

So the panel/board says to let him stay off of the site (FB was Trump's most effective fundraiser site, why he wants back on so desperately) but that FB can't kick him off without some set of rules saying why or how long. Hmmmm. Private company, not bound by First Amendment . . . dicey.

Oversight Board upholds Trump's Facebook suspension

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 May 21 - 10:57 AM

As far as I am concerned, now that the turnip is no longer in a position of power, he has been reduced to the same, laughable position as those like David Icke. With apologies for those who are struggling to deal with mental health issues, reading the turnip's posts is like it was paying to watch the inmates in the Bedlam Asylum..

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 21 - 12:24 PM

We are so lucky that insurrectionists on January 6th did not fire upon Congress or burn down the building. It still serves as an opening of hostilities like Fort Sumter at the start of the civil war. There were no casualties during the Confederate bombardment of Fort Sumter at the start of the American Civil War. The only Union deaths came during the evacuation: One soldier was killed and another mortally wounded in an accidental explosion during a planned 100-gun salute. (so unlucky)
I am glad FB will not be a continual host of further hostilities.

The Supream Court has some monumental decisions to make. They could
propel a modern civil war over voting rights and new voter suppression laws that would insure minority rule.

I have long had the premonition of a civil war as a few of you know, I count our blessings that we are backing away from a Trump ivil war. After all we have already lost over half a million lives in the US. For perspectiv the bllodoest battle in the civilwar wa 23,000 at Shilo.
The total civil war deaths are 620,000 to 75o,000.

We continue to restore the capitol objects of art from their exspoure to feces and knives. I hope democracy itself can be restored.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 May 21 - 03:14 PM

I don't think Trmp is out of power at all. Far from it. He has established his own eponymic web site and we have yet to see if he will make it a go-to place in the increasingly crazy netiverse.

Meanwhile, if you've been paying attention to the case of Liz Cheney in trying to maintain veracity and a sense of decency in the Republican sphere of 'thought', Trmp has decreed that she be replaced as Republican House leader by a Trmptard Representative, Elise Stefanik. More interesting, in that Trmp as a leader in retirement could be a deep betrayer in that he leads so many so wrong, but if they are so many enought, they re-define what is right, as they have been doing for several years now including a while Trmp term of office. Also interesting, is that Elise Stefanick did not start out as a Trmpist, but as a fairly interesting moderate conservative.

This is not all due to Trmp. This is an accumulation of Zero Sum tactics going back as far as Reagan, but mostly due to the "Gingrich Revolution" sustained by Mitch Mcconnell. The rhetoric has been supplemented by elements of the 'press'.

Just to say, there is a right-wing juggernaut out there. It is a loose but persistent agglomeration of interwoven irrationality that won't dissolve all at once like the dead walkers in the final episode of GOT despite Trmp's likeness to the Night King (apologies to Richard Brake!)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 21 - 05:29 PM

I think it was you who said our institutions would prevent such a coup just about a year ago. I'm hoping you're right.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 May 21 - 06:58 PM

It seems Devin Nunes feelings were hurt by mean Tweets.

Trump Justice Dept. Tried to Use Grand Jury to Identify Nunes Critic on Twitter

An unsealed court filing shows that the social media company fought the subpoena, which the Biden administration is said to have withdrawn.

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department under President Trump secretly obtained a grand-jury subpoena last year in an attempt to identify the person behind a Twitter account dedicated to mocking Representative Devin Nunes of California, according to a newly unsealed court document.

But Twitter fought the subpoena, as well as an associated gag order barring the company from talking about it publicly. Twitter executives raised skepticism about whether the Justice Department might be abusing federal criminal law-enforcement power to retaliate against a critic of Mr. Nunes, a Republican who is a close ally of Mr. Trump, in violation of the First Amendment.

Ultimately, according to a person familiar with the matter, the Justice Department withdrew the subpoena this spring, after President Biden took office.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 21 - 07:15 PM

Poor Devin. I hear his wife is a Genie and his grandfather was the SS butcher of Cyprus. Mean tweets are the bane of his existence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 21 - 07:42 AM

SDNY had their spokesperson announce that the Donald Trump Organization is now facing criminal charges.

Subject: BS: Audit Fever break out
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 21 - 09:17 AM

In the Republican audit of the Trump defeat in Arizona in search of counterfeit ballots - which I call the Trump audit of the audit of the audit of the recount - The concept of republican election audits has caught fire and has spread to 12 other States by way of seminars conducted by Republican think tank 'Heritage Foundation'.

The audit idea may not end there. Results of every kind of contest may soon come into question, like baseball games reviewing balls and strikes by expert Q republicans. This could spread to the UK to review and decide football games post game. Maybe it will replace peer review in the science community. :^I It might take weeks to decide the winners of the Super Bowl. As for Basketball forgettaboutit.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arizona-audit-2020-election-recount-gop-maricopa-county/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 12:40 PM

Trump's former National Security Advisor has called for a military coup in the USA similar to Miranmar.

General Flynn says he believes Trump will be reinstated by Aug.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 01:00 PM

Netanyahu is on his way out - and perhaps headed to prison. Harbingers of things to come, one hopes.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jun 21 - 03:03 PM

The flight to the right is still quivering and not yet ready to take a pendulum reversal of direction.
Like our pole shift, it occurs intermittantly and chaoticly before a full change of direction.
Bebe needs to spend more time with his pets and family. I'm pretty sure Argentina would permit his exile without extradition.
But I'm not certain.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Jun 21 - 01:38 AM

Who would have guessed that six months after the election there would still be talk of the legitimacy of it. I certainly did not. Oh, I accepted that the Orange One would still be bloviating but it never occurred to me that there would be a group of significant size.

Or that so many of our legislators would be such despicable creatures. As fiction it would be a bad play. As Real Life, it stinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jun 21 - 02:41 PM

in only 29 days
Poor ol Trump aka 'baby jesus' has closed his blog after it had less traffic than petfinder.com

The thing about lieing is that it can NEVER be confessed to be a lie.
The LIE must stay alive forever,
or it can suddenly die.

sounds like lyrics dontit?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 05:09 AM

Ebbie, my GUESS is that if USA is stupid enough to re-elect him, he would not recognise the legitimacy/legality of the Biden administration, and would sign a raft of executive orders ranging from undoing the good of the next four years, to the downright insane, bypassing both houses.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 05:23 AM

Trump isn't waiting for an election. He is still issuing presidential decrees and is planning a coup in August.
If I'm liein you're diein.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 01:14 PM

Banned from Facebook for two years. Karma!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 01:18 PM

Ready aim FIRE, Republicans all fling their dirty underwear against the wall but they all slide off. Nothing is sticking to Biden so they are going to take aim at Dr. Fauci instead. You are about to see an attack on Fauci as never before.

Republicans who will do their worst will be Pompeo, McConnel and all the usual suspects who will take turns with their dagger.
Assasination politics no longer refers to reputation but to life itself.


FACEBOOK will ban Trump for 2 more years

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 21 - 01:23 PM

Maybe his diet of Big Macs and Diet Coke will kill him off by then and the topic will be moot.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 06:57 AM

Reputation assasination politics has turned its guns at Dr. Fauci, possibly because republicans can't get anything to stick to Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 02:10 PM

The usual suspects have taken to character assassination of not only their own (Liz Cheney), but are heavily into throwing everything at Kamala Harris, similarly to their campaign, which I think was quite successful, against Hilary Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 03:10 PM

News flash: The US has the ability to go after ransomware criminals and steal back the money the criminals stole via breaking into bitcoin accounts. Supposedly this is what was done in the colonial pipeline attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 06:34 PM

The sore loser party is supported by a Republican party who no longer can say the word insurrection out loud.

I say rip off the band aid. You don't want a drip drip drip story until 2024.

OBEY BIG
BROTHER T
WATCH FOX
4 FREE
or die

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jun 21 - 02:20 PM

Here is a truly marvelous outcome of Trump actions aided by actions of the Republican Party:

The inimitable Nina Totenberg reports from NPR on the recent Supreme Court judgment: OBAMACARE wins for the 3rd time at the Supreme Court

Stephen Colbert opined on this last night in his monologue- The Supreme Court found that the objection, posed by Republicans, that the Obamacare Legislation was unconstitutional had been foiled by Republican legislation opposing Obamacare.

Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett were part of the majority opinion.

This situation is rife with concentrated irony. I'm not aware if Trmp himself has or is able to comment intelligently on the phenomenon.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 21 - 07:52 PM

There is a touch of irony there but Supream Court decisions for dummies
would simply say that the republican plantiffs could not demonstrate any harm or damages so the court said "no way". ACA stands.

I do not see any charges against the rich and powerful yet but only the unwashed whitepower insurrectionists. Even Wiesenberg hasn't flipped yet. I would prefer prosecutions from the top down. I'll risk martyrdom
for the Donald.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 21 - 08:50 AM

After he punished and destroyed Kathy Griffin Trump thought his justice dept could kill SNL and Alec Baldwin.

Thou shall not mock ME
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-asked-if-doj-fcc-could-punish-snl-after-mocking-report-2021-6

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 21 - 11:04 AM

Griffin shouldn't have backed down. She was within her comedic rights to do that. She weakened her brand when she buckled.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jun 21 - 02:08 PM

What was she to do, sue the secret service? Didn't they put her on the no fly, buy or cry list?
Class C entertainers/celebrites don't have a strong brand to begin with. Perhaps she could do Kraft artificial cheese commercials to go with her box of whine. Victimization became her brand but she bravely persisted. I prefer the courage of a George Carlin to a Lenny Bruce.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 07:14 AM

Apron fat, sometimes called Dunlop's Syndrome, is a condition where obese people have abdominal fat subcutaneously detach and hangs loosely from the body. This is what has happened to Mr. Trump along with his 60 lb. weight gain since leaving the White House. This is evidenced by his recent appearence when people thought he was wearing his pants backwards. What looked like his backside was actually apron fat or Dunlop's Syndrome where his detached fat 'done lops over his belt'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 02:50 PM

I saw someone like that in 'bucks pre-Covid and I was assured he was packing (had a gun on his person) by someone who also had a gun on his person (in a holster). (There should be a thread about people who carry firearms to coffee shops). I saw no evidence of a weapon, but didn't want to be thought to be staring. Maybe that's a new way to carry - wear a fat suit or portion thereof. It was part of a murder plot in Monk, not the carrying part but the wearing of a fat suit.

If Trump has really packed on the pounds since being out of office, is that going to affect his 200 year life span ?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 05:15 PM

Sorry to post after posting but some folks have no problem with that. Possibly Dontrumpuel, who indicated that the ex Prez has added 3 score of the avoirdupois since being 'fired' in January. According to this soure he has not put on pounds, he has been taking them off. The writer is scared that a trim Trmp is a re-electable Trmp.

Robo, who wonders how many spare pounds Dontrumpuel has to play with and if it is affecting his extra laps. Or lops. Maybe if there is no 'factual' weight to his posts, the weight is more 'actual'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 06:19 PM

I'll send you a photo if you dare open it, I'll be holding the newest Washington Post. No wrinkles full head of blonde hair and a 6ft 210 stature of good posture. The only life extending drug I take is Metformin. Like you, I avoid strong sunlight. Unlike you I'm straight.
I think Trump is closest to the Pearly gates In the middle of his next 24 campaign. After that he will be sent to L.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 06:34 PM

And now Rudolph Giuliani is having misconduct charges
broadcast across the nation.
What a day.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 08:30 PM

He is not disbarred yet but he is not allowed to pracice law in NY.
PA is next.

Pictures speak louder than words and the robo link had none. The picture of 'pants on backwards' is demonstrable of Donnies wt.gain.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 10:55 PM

Well, just saying, Dontrumpuel, YOU came up with the figure of 60 pounds of weight gain. So presumably you had a source. You have yet to Don-u-ment the posts I have called attention to.

Pictures may speak louder than words but sourced numbers speak louder .

Your little asides and add-ons to your posts full of assumptions stated as facts merely add to your Trumpiness. You are truly Trump's avatar in this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:25 AM

You may still believe in the words from the Trumpiverse if you wish.
I elect Donald J Trump to be a contestant on the TV show 'The Sorest Loser'

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 01:18 PM

What is very interesting and not being too much reported on is:

Those political and administrative holdings that have NOT changed between the Trump administration and the Biden administration. I'm following several items but right now I'm not sure if they can be considered things that the new administration is maintaining because:

A) They can't change them.
B) They don't want to change them.
C) They want to change them but the appearance of policy drift would be a greater penalty.

I'll never forget a conversation I had with some Africans many years ago (last millenium) where they credited the United States with being able to make progress in the world and within its borders because each new administration was willing to build on the work of the previous ones, even if they were different parties, whereas in their country and the ones they were familiar with, each new administration undid the work of the previous ones, either out of spite, ignorance, or the need to change the pockets absorbing the grift.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 04:22 PM

We will maintain a Trump evacuation of our troops and helpers from Afghanistan, we will NOT abandon Democracy and replace with kings for life. I know Qanon disagrees but thats just tough.
It is going to be a Biden withdrawl because Trump made no plan - only a declaration.
The rest of us need to understand white rage, white nationalism and the lure of Nazism the conservative junta lunatic fringe that attacked ourcapitol crapped in it and crept out when they couldn't find leaders to kill, hang or kidnap..

here is a quote from General Milley in his own words

Saying Trump did it is too easy. It may turn out that I am wrong but we have to defend having knowledge as opposed to accepting lies.
Why Milley has to defend knowledge is because of people like Tom Cotton, Matt Gaetz, Greene and the usual mediocre men are investigation our military as to who is the woke progressive soldiers they need to eliminate. There were 120 military officers who signed a
letter saying the election was fraudulent.

Similar to Hitlerism the enemy is being defined as the intellectuals or the well informed. Its not just the Blacks,Jews or Catholics.
The mouths of the MAGA maggots are spewing corrosive lies and their ears are sealed. When thy say something I can't understand it is a failure of their education, not mine. Those snowflake white men are incapable of taking critique, are capableofdolingout infamous repudiatons of the humanity of the other, yet they call us snowflakeswhilethey are the biggest flakes of snow on Earth. They are incapable of criticism, they are incapable of tolerating difference they are afraid that critical race theory will kill their KKK or relatives. They are allowed to wax and rant about means or rationality and reality yet they cannot evensave themselves with a vaccine shot. Iamtired of hearing mediocre white men excoriate women, trans, gays, and blacks or Anything that is not them.
We have to seize the discourse of empathy and go to a political gathering and take back the rhetoric of this country. I can read the fascist propoganda but it doesn't make me a white white rager and attack the capitol. Its necessary for us to be open minded and let the majority to take the lead because the white men like Josf hFawly and Mitch McConnel are fucking it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 06:44 PM

breaking news: The entire Trump Org. will be indicted next week by NY DA.
This is just an opening salvo by calling a bluff possibly because Weisenberg has not flipped.

now back to my unedited rushed rant...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:32 PM

here is a quote from General Milley in his own words
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007831214/milley-critical-race-theory-military.html


Saying Trump did it is too easy. Its the small men . It is the self serving liars who are frightening their herd of sheep. It may turn out that I am wrong but we now have to defend simply having knowledge as opposed to accepting lies.
Why Milley has to defend knowledge is because of people like Tom Cotton, Matt Gaetz, Greene and the usual mediocre men are investigation our military as to who are the woke progressive soldiers they need to eliminate. There were 120 military officers who signed a letter saying the election was fraudulent. This sounds like loyalists in favor of a coup.

Similar to Hitlerism the enemy is being defined as the intellectuals or the well informed. Its not just the Blacks, Jews or Catholics.
The mouths of the MAGA maggots are spewing corrosive lies and their ears are sealed. When they say something I can't understand it is a failure of their education, not mine. Those snowflake white men are incapable of taking critique, they are capable of infamous repudiatons of the humanity of the other, yet they call us snow flakes while they are the biggest flakes of snow on Earth. They are incapable of criticism, they are incapable of tolerating difference, they are afraid that critical race theory will kill their KKK, oathkeepers or relatives. They are allowed to wax and rant about conspiracy or rationality and reality yet they cannot even save themselves with a vaccine shot. I am tired of hearing mediocre white men excoriate women, trans, gays and blacks or Anything that is not them.
We have to seize the discourse of empathy and go to political gatherings and take back the rhetoric of this country. I can read the fascist propoganda but it doesn't make me a white white nationalist and attack the capitol. Its necessary for us to be open minded and let the true majority take the lead because the white men like Josh Hawley and Mitch McConnel are flubbing it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 09:55 AM

MçMacafee reminds me how Trump could meet his end, if he had the courage.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 10:19 AM

Gen. Milley believes in knowing his enemy.

Those who criticize him for his habit of wide-ranging reading might meet the definition of “enemy”.

Just sayin’.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 10:41 AM

The "can't change them" policies are still getting a stress test, I think. For example, I hope soon the Postal board of governors fires DeJoy; Biden can't, only the board can, and he has the majority of board members now. Please do it soon - the post office needs a lot of recovery help.

It sounds like Attorney General Garland has taken the reigns after studying things for a while and is gradually clearing out Trump appointees (some may simply be reassigned because they can't be fired) and is now starting the sue the states with the discriminatory voting laws just put into effect. See Georgia as the first of what I hope will be many.

Biden can't do everything at once, and not with just his pen. It's better if legislation is in place, and better if the agencies can do their jobs. More durable. Too bad we can't erase Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jun 21 - 04:24 PM

I still think the observation of what 'hasn't changed' is worth careful observation. It goes away from Trump a little, in that it is a show of what Democrats either are 'afraid to touch' or 'glad it happened':

Of course the Supreme Court selections:
Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett. I don't think the issue of 'packing the court' is a realistic one. There are multi-sided face-offs here:
Fear-mongering Republicans either Trummpies or none
Progressive Dems raising the issue
Centrist Dems not pressihng the issue

Since the current face-off within the court is 6-3 in favor of what are considered the conservatives over the liberals, packing the court to reverse this perception would require a 7-6 selection to say the least, so we'd have to go from 9 to 13 justices to make a 'worthwhile' political difference, which means getting the change made and getting four new justices. I do not see this as even close to realistic. It may have made sense for the Democrats to leave this option theoretically on the table prior to a general election in order to keep the Progressives with the Centrists (I am bundling everyone not a Progressive into the Centrist category), but I don't think this issue plays out in local politics anywhere. So as far as Democrats go, until a general election, it's gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 01:39 PM

D.C. Prosecutors Set Their Targets on Don Jr.’s Posse

Recent filings made by the AG’s office show that the probe is starting to home in on the actions of Trump’s longtime financial confidant and others.

“The world’s about to learn how Trump’s inner circle—with Trump’s full knowledge—took advantage of the presidential inauguration,” said Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, who helped put together inaugural events and is now a lead witness for the government in this case.

“Everything they did was all about self-dealing. They had a nonprofit pay them for their own hotel at an inflated cost,” she told The Daily Beast.

I've been reading Winston Wolkoff's book - she has done some amazing organizing in the past, but the Trump folks brought her in then ignored her recommendations and shoveled money into their own coffers as fast as they could, hoping apparently to leave her holding the bag. She kept detailed records, she kept receipts. And when she wrote the book, she basically goes step by step through what happened. And Melania is as corrupt as the rest of them, though she supposedly had Winston Wolkoff come in as a favor to her. For a while it was Melania trying to wrest control of some of it from the kids, but it wasn't really.

“I didn’t understand why anything was being done for the kids. It’s not a birthday party. This is for the United States of America swearing in the most powerful executive in the world,” Winston Wolkoff, who said she had to awkwardly jockey to block the creation of events that were clearly self-dealing, like Junior’s hunting-themed “Sportsman’s Ball” and Ivanka’s “Ladies Luncheon.”

“Why is Ivanka bringing together 100 influential women when she’s not on the Cabinet?” she said. “These kids were doing events for themselves... by them, for them, with them... with other people’s money meant for a nonprofit.”

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 02:45 PM

SRS: Looks like an interesting book. I had not considered Melania in the same ethical zone as her mate and his kin. One of my goto guys back during the campaign classified her as an abused woman (and this does not negate that poss/probability) and she kinda went off my smell radar.

And, apropos of Melania's entrance to the thread:

"Kill him in front of me and I sex you"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 04:17 PM

Donald is too çhicken to fight
And don't call me Leslie.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 10:52 PM

Ivanka as a culprit in the Trump White House affair of Who stashed the missing $160 Million:

Documents Show Ivanka Trump Didn’t Testify Accurately in Inauguration Scandal Case

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 01:03 PM

I see Trump as a Bill Cosby, guilty as hell but is now free due to a technicality.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 05:25 PM

Trump Organization and CFO Allen Weisselberg Expected to Be Charged Thursday

Wall Street Journal has a paywall, so here's the first part of the article:

The Manhattan district attorney’s office is expected to charge the Trump Organization and its chief financial officer with tax-related crimes on Thursday, people familiar with the matter said, which would mark the first criminal charges against the former president’s company since prosecutors began investigating it three years ago.

Any charges against the Trump Organization and Allen Weisselberg, the company’s longtime chief financial officer, would be a blow to former President Donald Trump, who has fended off multiple criminal and civil probes during and after his presidency. But the initial charges won’t implicate Mr. Trump himself, his lawyer said, falling short of expectations about the high-profile probe that included a battle over his tax returns decided by the U.S. Supreme Court in the prosecutors’ favor.

The defendants are expected to appear in court on Thursday, the people said.

The Trump Organization and Mr. Weisselberg are expected to face charges related to allegedly evading taxes on fringe benefits, the people said. For months, the Manhattan district attorney’s office and New York state attorney general’s office have been investigating whether Mr. Weisselberg and other employees illegally avoided paying taxes on perks—such as cars, apartments and private-school tuition—that they received from the Trump Organization.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 09:24 PM

No bank in the world loans money to companies under indictment.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 12:13 AM

Oh, look! Jared Kushner is going to publish ‘definitive’ book on Trump presidency. Perhaps it will end up in a boxed set with the blank pages of Sarah Palin: Going Rouge (yes, "rouge," not "rogue.") Two novelty books.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 06:00 AM

Can't wait to read the musings of an incompetent dilettante slumlord.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 10:03 AM

https://www.justsecurity.org/69094/timeline-on-jared-kushner-qatar-666-fifth-avenue-and-white-house-policy/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 12:39 PM

America the land that never was but must be. Villains and heros come and go. Today again it has a national idea that is grafted to a shadow. The world is a better place to merely dream of an America despite the occaisional nightmares.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 05:08 PM

The High Court said "to protect our elections from fraud, States may make laws to protect their elections. If it is claimed that those laws discriminate against a race - it must be proven."

wHERE IS THE PROOF OF FRAUD?
So it looks like new voting laws in arizona will be allowed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 07:02 PM

Someone needs to light a fire under Manchin and Sinema.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jul 21 - 08:29 PM

Meanwhile, Trmp isn't the worst ever, merely the worst in our lifetime.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 21 - 12:19 AM

Yes, I would have named Andrew Johnson. What. A. Putz. But so is Trump.

I'd love to see this: Trump's children will not remain loyal to him like Allen Weisselberg has, his niece Mary says. A race to the bottom, to see who can get less jail time by flipping on The Donald.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jul 21 - 07:15 AM

witch hunt
bitch hunt
the dog
buries his bone
live by the lie
die by the lie.
its time for him to go

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jul 21 - 07:50 AM

BIG lie Alitto says
elections are a fraud
States may overturn them
so Republicans can applaud.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jul 21 - 06:08 PM

How can we miss you
If you won't go away?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Jul 21 - 06:26 PM

Save the Whale Billionaires, don't make them pay taxes too.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jul 21 - 02:06 PM

(sigh)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 21 - 05:48 PM

Apparently Sonic the Hedgehog is making mincemeat of a new attempt at a Trump social media site.

Sonic Smut Is Flooding Trump’s New Social Network

The Trump-Friendly ‘GETTR’ Is Apparently Being Overrun With NSFW Images Of Sonic The Hedgehog

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jul 21 - 08:10 PM

I am speachless, impeachless, bleachless and clueless as to the form of a social media response to yet another failed Trump internet site.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 21 - 01:08 PM

The indictment last week telegraphed to the Trump organization and to Ivanka in particular that she is next on the hit list: Ivanka Trump could be the next target for Manhattan's district attorney, according to a former federal prosecutor

Good. And nail her obnoxious brothers also.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jul 21 - 07:53 AM

Mary Trump agrees Ivanka is first to flip. ?!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jul 21 - 08:04 AM

What do you call an insurrectionist in a suit?
The defendant.
500 so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jul 21 - 05:52 PM

Google SUED
Facebook SUED
Twitter SUED
by Trump today

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jul 21 - 06:03 PM

also the color blue, the letter B and the constitution.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jul 21 - 11:09 PM

Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg has been terminated as the director of one of Trump's golf courses in Scotland

A notice filed on Thursday with Companies House, the UK registry of private companies, showed that Weisselberg had been terminated as a director of Trump International Golf Club Scotland, a holding company that owns Trump's Aberdeenshire golf resort, Trump International Golf Links.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jul 21 - 03:53 PM

One of my 'theories' on Trmp is that anyone who relies on him lives to regret it. Curious about long-termer Weisselberg's relationship. Is he employee, hiree, long-time associate, partner? Multiple ties? Likely to be caught doing illegal stuff or so long term and experienced that he has a map of the minefield or minefields of his own.

Never heard of the guy until last week.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 21 - 06:07 PM

As robo says I am ghost writting Trmp's next book 'The Art of the Coup.'

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 21 - 01:18 AM

Now might be a good time for you to read Mary Trump's book, robo. It isn't very long and it draws a map to all of the players. I haven't finished the book Melania and Me about the scam of the millions donated for the Trump inauguration, but it is still timely. Millions went walkabout and the Trumps viewed those donated dollars as a family slush fund. Stephanie, former friend of Melania, kept meticulous notes. She has the receipts.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 21 - 09:25 AM

Mary's files and book was the first step in the current investigation and indictments. The roots of her files surround penetrate the corruption and evil that grow beneath the Trump tree of thorns.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 21 - 12:12 PM

She retrieved the tax documents from her attorneys who had two sets of them. Sometimes it's good to be a packrat.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 21 - 12:33 PM

Malfeasance by his appointees - no surprise at all:

A Report Clears Federal Officials Who Were Suspended By A Trump Appointee Over VOA

"What is shocking are [the inspector general's] discovery of the many more ways Pack and his political appointees – while running USAGM for a mere six months – managed to break the law, abuse authority, endanger public health and safety and grossly mismanage the agency," Seide said in a statement.

During his tenure, Pack gave interviews to conservative and pro-Trump news outlets saying he wanted to "drain the swamp" at Voice of America.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 21 - 05:49 PM

They were family friends of ours. She was heroic, the appointee was an ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jul 21 - 01:56 PM

DonTrumpuel. When you make personal references, I want details. You are too prone to fabrication or probably in your terms, poetic elaboration. But too often you exceed reality. And your tendency to resemble the subject Trmp while useful to the fabric of this thread can also confuse poor folks like me who often regard themselves as tied to reality.

So whoe were family friends? And who was the appointee. In the manner of a famous lawyer (who was a family friend), "Don't fabricate; elaborate!"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jul 21 - 02:32 PM

I assumed he was speaking about Pack; he lives in Washington, D.C. or environs.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 21 - 06:51 AM

heh heh its funny robo thinks what he wants, matters to me.
You'd be happier if you found someone who it does matter to.
Just laugh at the show and the way it goes.
Times are super Orwellian among the melanin deprived and melatonin overdosed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 21 - 07:49 AM

Back in 2006 the christian right cried out for curing AIDS in Africa and a cure for world poverty but they have gone downhill in membership since. Now they cheer the message to do nothing to save their life with vaccine and worship an amoral Trmp. The celebration that they got their guy in the white house is waning and attract mostly the criminal nazi and KKK. It takes 10 to 15 years for the terminally misinformed to see clearly again. Make America See Clearly Again MASCA.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 21 - 08:04 AM

Action: Trump screams BOYCOTT BASEBALL for moving the All Star game to CO. from Georgia due to voting laws.

Effect: Body Armor. 16 guns and 1,000 rounds of ammunition were found in hotel room accross from the Baseball stadium.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 21 - 12:11 PM

There was a crooked man
who always acted pissed
He had alot of crooked fans
that hate spics and rapists

There was a crooked man,
and he sold crooked plots,
He found a crooked dollar
in all the crooked slots ;

He found a crooked cat
which caught a crooked mouse,
And they all got really fat
in a huge crooked house.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jul 21 - 02:08 PM

Here's a Trump appointee who hoped to burrow in like a tick and keep damaging the Social Security Administration. Biden kicked out the top two guys, but the top one says he isn't leaving.

Biden clears out Trump picks at the Social Security Administration
Following a Supreme Court ruling, Biden fired Trump's top officials at the Social Security Administration. Andrew Saul, however, doesn't intend to leave.

Saul, however, apparently disagrees. In fact, the Trump appointee told the Washington Post late last week that, as far as he's concerned, Biden can't fire him. Saul added that he intends to keep working this morning, as if his ouster hadn't happened.

I don't know enough about the inner workings of the Social Security Administration, but I assume the relevant officials have canceled his login and limited his access to the building. I also assume Saul will soon file some kind of lawsuit testing the legality of the White House's decision.

One hopes so!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 21 - 02:22 PM

CORRECTION: wITH THE AMOUNT OF heroin, Meth and eCTAsY the FBI says the guns at the All Star Baseball Stadium is just the usual drug sales hotel stay. cRAZY DAYS of summer.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jul 21 - 03:02 PM

That last post looks like it was destined for a different thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jul 21 - 06:29 AM

It relates to the 8:04 am post about boycott baseball.
Its probably NOT baseball terrorism but just a drug deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Jul 21 - 05:33 PM

In the meantime Trump has apparently tried to take credit for the successful Branson suborbital fllight. He 'paved the way' for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jul 21 - 06:33 PM

I try to confine my biggest whoppers to MOAB but a trmp asphalt paving to space is a super whopper. I'm sure donnie is pointing to some political tweet to back up his claim.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jul 21 - 10:29 PM

He's a sociopath who has a lot of enablers who keep repeating what he says in places where he can see it. I'm sure he has one Google Alert set up - for his own name.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Jul 21 - 10:42 PM

"REICHSTAG MOMENT"



Comes now a new book including observations from Gen. Milley, who was head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Saying that late in the Trmp term he was appointing buddies to major positions and causing fears among the high staff that he would try something akin to a 'Wag the Dog' strategy. My jaded old movie memory went back to "Seven Days in May".

Trump's reaction was predictable:

“Sorry to inform you, but an Election is my form of ‘coup,’” Trump said, “and if I was going to do a coup, one of the last people I would want to do it with is General Mark Milley.”

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jul 21 - 11:22 PM

There are several really interesting books coming out this month. I just bought a Kindle version of First Friends talking about a number of presidents and their long-term friends. And interestingly enough, they said that Trump doesn't have a best friend. He's the poorer for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jul 21 - 08:14 AM

You can attest to the fact that I was talking like Mark Milley over a year ago. Many years ago I warned of a Civil War but I was four square wrong about people being unwilling to die for Trump. They are doing it by the thousands thanks to the help from Facebook vaccine experts.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jul 21 - 11:20 AM

At one time Christiane Northrup was a well-respected feminist-oriented ob/gyn. I have a couple of her books from 20-30 years ago. Now she's gone into the Dark Side with her LaLaLand nonsense and puts her whole career into question. And Mercola - he's just plain criminally wrong in the stuff he promotes. I don't know WTF is going on with the Kennedy scion.

The Dirty Dozen from Salon. This story from NPR.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Jul 21 - 02:41 PM

Times have brought great changes in technology. Back a generation ago there were fewer information streams and a greater consensus on what constituted truth versus news. Different sources had different values of believability. Mark Twain said: "Truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it." Now, information is cheap and plentiful. And everyone can contribute. It is sent out in broad spigots. So "the truth is out there" but it is to be found severely diluted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jul 21 - 05:03 PM

Truth is its not just white nationalist Trumpers
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-right-wing-extremists-have-infiltrated-german-security-forces

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 09:31 AM

The Waffen SS would lovingly escort Jews into employment facilities.
They were a very loving crowd. The SS would hug and kiss Jews touring the ground. You don't see this now. Likewise the capitol police...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 10:03 AM

No surprise now that the details of the Kavanaugh hearings are being revealed. FBI says it got more than 4,500 tips on Kavanaugh, providing ‘relevant’ ones to Trump White House
. . . where they were immediately quashed.

The exact number of tips was disclosed in a June 30 letter released by Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse on Thursday. The letter was in response to a two-year-old request from Senate Democrats seeking more information about the handling of the investigation.

The revelation reignited fierce accusations from liberals who say that the FBI and the Trump White House did not sufficiently examine allegations against Kavanaugh in the wake of accusations from Dr. Christine Blasey Ford that he had sexually assaulted her at a party in the Maryland suburbs when they were both in high school.

The allegations nearly derailed his confirmation, and Kavanaugh has always fiercely denied them. Kavanaugh was ultimately confirmed by a vote of 50-48.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 10:05 AM

From the New York Times:

In an interview, Mr. Whitehouse said the F.B.I.’s response showed that the F.B.I.’s handling of the accusations into misconduct by Mr. Kavanaugh was a sham. Ms. Tyson’s letter, Mr. Whitehouse said, suggested that the F.B.I. ran a “fake tip line that never got properly reviewed, that was presumably not even conducted in good faith.”

Mr. Whitehouse and six of his Democratic colleagues on the Senate Judiciary Committee replied to the F.B.I.’s letter on Wednesday with demands for additional details on the agreement with the White House that governed the inquiry. They also pressed for more information on how incoming tips were handled.

“Your letter confirms that the F.B.I.’s tip line was a departure from past practice and that the F.B.I. was politically constrained by the Trump White House,” the senators wrote. Among those signing the letter were Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, the committee’s chairman, Mr. Coons and Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 11:19 AM

I know I don't know enough about US politics and I was probably expecting too much but can anyone explain to me why he has not been locked up yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 12:01 PM

He's slippery as a frog. He's been flim-flamming government organizations, banks, contractors and individuals for about fifty years and has become adept at leaving someone else holding the bag.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 08:19 PM

Couple things I'm curious about:

Regarding Kavanaugh, I recall that some of the Senators were willing to wait for an FBI report to be made prior to the confirmation vote. That sounded like a formal work product. Are these recent revelations indicating that that was a sham? Yeah, I know how naive that question might appear.

Re: the slippery one presumably Trump. This is based on what I remember hearing over the last year. But it's that Trump does not do e-mail. He leaves precious little personal documentation out there. Interesting in comparison to his 'rule via twitter' practise when he was in office.

There is plenty written about Trmp, including the aggressive use of lawyers and suits against his creditors ("Where's My Roy Cohn?"). He is a long time scrapper in a business environment that filters out a certain type of 'success'. But maybe not success as most of us expect.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 11:56 PM

Thats why a recording of his phone calls have proved obstruction and lead to impeachments except in the eyes of Republican Senators. His call to Georgia's AG to change voting results
was also impeachable but he was no longer president then.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 04:48 AM

If you're referring to the phone call to the Georgia A.G. in which he said “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have,”,that took place on Jan. 2 of this year when he was still in office.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 04:53 AM

correction: the call in question was to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, not the AG.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 08:23 AM

Correct on both accounts gilly. I was too weary to double check. It turns out that Georgia was not the only state official he called to change votes prior to Jan. 6th. Its hard to say what was plan A or B since Jan 6 had been in the works for weeks or even months. Trump was ready to go big or go home. In the end he did both.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 08:23 AM

Correct on both accounts gilly. I was too weary to double check. It turns out that Georgia was not the only state official he called to change votes prior to Jan. 6th. Its hard to say what was plan A or B since Jan 6 had been in the works for weeks or even months. Trump was ready to go big or go home. In the end he did both.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 08:43 AM

Best not to double click submit.
As a denominator to every post; I have faith in each and every one, more than a diety. Its kind of a Hindu concept that god is in everyone which is why they bow with prayer hands to each other in India. It just might take Trump 42 lifetimes to finally do the right thing, but even he could be redeemed given enough time. As for his followers who paid the ultimate price for believing his lies, I wish them and theirs get special dispensation. Flagellation won't help but sometimes it is tempting to whip the idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 10:42 AM

As for Trump and Mc Connel, they are not a Hitler and Goering war machine and his merry band of insurrectionists who rule by the anti democratic mob are not the SS trained from childhood in loyalty to a man god. We may lose voting democracy but failure is not fatal and success is not final. We the people will continue on.
"We may learn to change our minds or the minds of others, for those who never change their minds, never change anything." quote Winston Churchill.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Jul 21 - 06:14 PM

Philip Bump on Donald Trump   (you can't make THAT up)
and the audience for the fringe mass media.

Washington Post: Donald Trump finally has what he always wanted

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jul 21 - 04:59 PM

Justice Department Clears Way For Trump Officials To Testify About Jan. 6

The Justice Department has notified former government officials that it has consulted with the White House counsel's office and that it "would not be appropriate to assert executive privilege with respect to communications with former President Trump and his advisers and staff on matters related to the committee's proposed interviews," according to a person who has read the letter from department official Bradley Weinsheimer.

The decision could clear a path for former Justice Department officials to testify about an attempt to oust then-acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen and replace him with someone sympathetic to the former president's baseless arguments about election fraud in the days before the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.

But the decision also could portend court challenges by Trump and others with whom he talked on Jan. 6, the person said.

Bold emphasis mine. They will probably try to say that what they know is still exclusive and needs to be not spoken to protect Trump. This is saying "don't try it."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jul 21 - 02:04 PM

I think this may be appropriate for some of the legislation in regards to all this:

"Laws are like sausages. It is better not to see them being made."

Otto Von Bismarck

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 10:34 AM

Remember Alexander Vindman? Testified in Trump's first impeachment hearing, then he and his twin brother were evicted from jobs in the White House and Trump tried to bring him up on charges? He as written a book.

What I Heard in the White House Basement
I knew the president had clear and straightforward talking points—I’d written them.

By Alexander Vindman

This article basically recounts the events of the Trump conversation with the newly-elected president of Ukraine, and how he and others responded to the shift in policy that was intended to get Trump re-elected. It covers the events discussed in the impeachment hearing.

In my life, that quiet inner voice has been a real person: my brother. Our unique relationship was about to matter more than it ever had before. The walk that morning from the White House basement up to my brother’s office is pretty much a blur but I do remember looking around the conference room when the meeting broke up, knowing that others, including my boss, had heard what I’d heard. In that moment, I realized something right away. Nobody else was going to say anything about it. I was the person most knowledgeable about and officially responsible for the portfolio. If I didn’t report up the chain of command what I knew, no one might ever find out what the president was up to with Ukraine and the 2020 U.S. election. That’s why I went straight to Yevgeny’s office.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 08:24 PM

Trump, his loyalists and appointees are like the founding fathers in one key way. They know they have to hang together or they will certainly hang seperately.
Begining with Jeffery Clark...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 06:15 PM

I'm listening right now (Thursday 20210805) to Terry Gross of Fresh Air interviewing Jane Mayer of The New Yorker who wrote:
New Yorker's "The Big Money Behind The Big Lie"

The NPR site related is: Fresh Air - The Dark Money Effort to Win at All Costs

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 06:50 PM

Here we are in August, the very month Trump says he is to be reinstated. (There's no constitutional mechanations to reinstate anybody)
Did America come close to a Trump coup? Yes closer than one or two people intervening to not perform unlawful acts close.
100 million $ says Trump will win this time around, truth be damned again.

Vaccination fears are waining but stupid arguements still arise such as Elvis got vaccinated in the Army and now he's dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 09:16 PM

"We can't keep trying to outrun this thing or llo anyone to rewrite this thing; e've got to turn around and face it, defeat it once and for all. if all we do is turn away and hope it fades, it will just keep getting stronger until it kills us all."

Capitol policeman Mike Fanome who survived Jan. 6 attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 10:54 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/05/heres-roadmap-justice-department-follow-investigating-trump/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 11:41 PM

I wonder what all of the Trump plants in federal agencies are doing these days?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 08:59 AM

I can answer that. A political appointee is considered to be a Schedule C. The schedule C appointees are only for the duration of the president who did the appointment. They are having a hard time finding jobs since they usually go back into think tanks like Heritage, Patrick Henry, and other repub sanctuaries. Right now those places aren't hiring like they used to. Bannon and Miller are the new sanctuaries. They can 'burrow in' by trying to get a job by applying for a Fed job with an agency. They have a right to apply but no rights to automatically be hired. The Post Office position you know about is not a schedule C. People hired by advise and consent of the Senate are not immune from being fired and replaced unless they are part of the judiciary like a Supream Court Judge. Former lawyers appointed to the Justice Department by Trump are outta there unless they 'burrowed in'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 01:53 PM

The most recent Trump rump effect is the apparent U.S. abandonment of a secular Afghanistan. After 20 years, this is nothing less than the loss of the U.S.s longest war.

I am not arguing that Trump lost the War. It could be interpreted that Trump recognized that the War was unwinnable or not worth the cost of winning, so he instituted negotiations with the Taliban. Which has been continued under the current Biden administration either because there is a certain momentum to the events, or because they in fact agree that after 100s of billions of dollars and hundreds of American lives and tens of thousands of Afghan lives, the situation is not going to change in direction.

This is politically interesting because I think the Trumpistas will argue that the Democrats lost the war during the coming elections.

And of course the world will take notice of the events as a sign of American further loss of world dominance. Which Trump didn't cause but definitely symbolized.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 06:06 PM

SAVE THE TRUMP ANTIVAXERS

vaccinate them in their sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 07:49 PM

I expressed my concerns regarding Trump getting elected or reelected and my friends expressed their concerns that his recent twits and comments have been irrational, particularly regarding the Olympics. Unfortunately his irrationality has been a popular plus for him among his adherents.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 10:31 PM

Most of his irrationalities are walked back as being his brand of humor, usually on the caustic or vitriolic side. If you have an example we could judge for ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Aug 21 - 09:03 PM

Republicans and Democrats are equally responsible for the disastrous intervention in Afghanistan. Bush II started it, Obama reinforced failure in the most wasteful way available to him, Trump ignored it except when he felt like meddling and ended up under-cutting diplomats and military commanders alike, and now Biden is cutting the country’s losses while he can.

Anybody would think Vietnam had been erased from the national memory.

Incidentally, I note that Gitmo is still operating.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Aug 21 - 07:07 AM

Charmion. It's a national failure, and we're spending more media on the Governor of New York being all touchy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Aug 21 - 08:00 AM

SAVE THE TRUMP ANTIVAXERS

vaccinate them in their sleep.

I saw a quote recently :     "We are increasing the collective IQ, one anti-vaxxer at a time"

BTW A guy by the name of Matt Braynard is telling the Trumpeters to return to the Capitol on Sept 18th - Video before 5:30 - inset clip

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Aug 21 - 04:18 PM

New York Times says Cuomo is resigning. Another news cycle....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 03:17 AM

Charmion. It's a national failure, and we're spending more media on the Governor of New York being all touchy

Paraphrasing Woody Allen - "Workplace sexual harassment - is a touchy subject"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 06:46 AM

Mr. Red I had always assumed you were a Brit. Thats the failure of my assumptions minus facts. If we assume the insurrectionists are coming on the 18th but they show up a week early on Sept 11 th , imagine the embarrassment. Imagine the mixed crowd on the 20th anniversity of 9-11.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 09:09 AM

A Mr. Red reprise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB-WVPkRBgQ

I am of two minds. One I believe Trumpism is a real ongoing threat and Two I believe a socialogical pendulum will find a sensible balance again.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Aug 21 - 08:30 PM

Cartoon of 'Red State Covid testing'
-image of 6 people rubbing nasal swabs on Magic 8 balls.-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Aug 21 - 05:51 PM

Dennis Montgomery - con man cyber ninja data source con man for Trump

PBS greatest hoax in history

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Aug 21 - 07:25 PM

"From: Donuel - PM
Date: 11 Aug 21 - 06:46 AM

... If we assume the insurrectionists are coming on the 18th but they show up a week early on Sept 11 th , imagine the embarrassment. Imagine the mixed crowd on the 20th anniversity of 9-11."

Now its official Home Land Security has issued a terror alert for 9-11 for the various reasons I noted above.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 03:01 AM

Although I am a fervent non-believer is conspiracy theories but the turnip's prediction that he would be back in the Whitehouse by August and the resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan is one pretty big coincidence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 04:21 AM

Mr. Red I had always assumed you were a Brit

Yeeeeeees Donuel, But more importantly English, and there is a higher nationalism - I am a Staffordshireman.

To tell the truth, the cartoon that is the GOP currently holds entertainment that allows me to larf at the screen. Trumpeters like M T-G & Matt Gaetz cannot be real - please tell me it is a game show.
I do it in preference to following the minutia of our own philandering, turncoat strawhead, where I would be yelling at the TV and unable to relax the rest of the day.

But I can claim 2% American, from my Grandparents & family, (inc mother) who lived in Braddock, Allegheny County, PA for several years covering WW1. As a side note my grandfather found in discussion with his steelmen colleagues - he was the only one to NOT sleep with a gun under his pillow!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 07:01 AM

Red, There is such an increase of nationalism (Brexit-Germany neo nazis-Hungary-America 1st-Poland) that hearing your cosmopolitan viewpoint is practically rare. Its like a bridge cracking prior to a collapse.

Allegheny is a region like the Catskills and geologically part of the most ancient mountain chain on Earth, now worn down to a stub, that stretches all the way to Scotland. I grew up in those olde hills.

The trump withdrawl from Afghanistan has become a titanic ship of state sinking and only the crew is rescued. However for 1,000's of years defeat is always inevitable for invaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 08:13 AM

The Afghanistan withdrawal fiasco has absolutely stuffed Joe Biden. You'd better hurry up and get Trump in jail, otherwise he'll be back.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 08:19 AM

Afghanistan stuffed Alexander the Great, Russian leaders, USA leaders and Christianity. Its like the Crusades. It was all foreseeable.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 08:28 AM

Which doesn't change the message. Either you get Trump behind bars or else he's your next president.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 08:39 AM

I keep hoping that tRump will come down with something quickly fatal, such as a massive cerebral haemorrhage.

Anyone with the brains God gave a goose saw the fall of Kabul coming from the start, nearly 20 years ago. I vividly remember looking at my husband across the breakfast table and the newspapers; as he lifted his eyes, we said in chorus, "What could possibly go wrong?"

Of course, both of us were raised on Kipling.

During the 2020 campaign, Mr Biden stated that he did not expect to serve more than one term. Honestly, I can't see any likely successor coming up behind him, do you?

By "likely successor", I do not mean tRump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 21 - 05:50 PM

Steve, anyone with even a modest understanding of history knows that Afghanistan was going to do this the moment the US left no matter who was president. Though fool Trump really set up the Afghans to fail because he was negotiating retreat with the Taliban when he was in office - he wasn't including the government in his negotiations so they had all the more reason to buckle. It does seem odd that Biden didn't change the players, he left Trump's plan in place, pushing it back a few months. (He has been busy with other things.) The biggest puzzle is why his people didn't insist on continuing to use Bagram instead of the Kabul airport (and why they didn't plan way ahead to get the Afghan families who aided the US out?) These issues would face anyone trying to wrap this up: there have been four presidents with this on their dance cards and it would have been best all around if Dubya hadn't been trying to one-up his father and started this whole Afghan and then Iraq period of aggression to begin with. As it happened, when Bin Laden was killed on Obama's watch, it was in Pakistan. Go figure.

I vote for aneurism for Trump - brain, aorta, whatever. Just to be gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 21 - 05:55 PM

Most of your countrymen and women haven't even got a modest understanding of history. Trump got 75 million votes last time out, more than any other loser ever. Be very afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 21 - 06:03 PM

Incidentally, wishing death or ill-health on people fits the definition of going low. Trump did so many bad things but somehow you can't nail him. Somehow, that's what you have to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 21 - 06:05 PM

Normally Steve protests a trump death wish.
Natural causes are dangerous.
Death should leave no room for conspiracy or Martyrdom such as being shot by Steve Bannon or the Pillow Guy on live TV

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 21 - 06:49 PM

Biden has a higher approval rating than trump ever had. He had a victory on his infrastructure bill, Standard and Poors stock market has doubled since March 2020, Covid relief put $ in everyone's pocket, the child tax benefit is mailing $250 minimum per month to parents, shots in arms is over 60%, Afghan refugees will number fewer than Viet Nam, Japanese, and Korean restaurants. Afghan food is not that appealing...
Rent moritorium has been extended but we have to settle the voting rights bill to win the next election convincingly. Overall the real real political determinate in the US is "Its the Pandemic stupid".
70-80% are vaccinated in battlground states. FL and TX are killing their own base with anti mask laws. They could go purple since people tend to protect their kids over republican blowhards.
Trump has NO lock on the election and fewer inside instigators.
Listen and learn Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 21 - 08:29 PM

Unfortunately, you will learn only when Trump is your next president. It's the American way, demonstrated perfectly by Biden in the last few days. When things bite you on the arse, you realise, too late, that you got it wrong (and, even now, he valiantly refuses to admit it). The whole of the western world outside your country knows that Biden has suffered a calamity at least as bad as the exit from Hanoi. The trick is to see it coming and do a swerve. Joe hasn't learned that lesson.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 17 Aug 21 - 08:41 PM

I think that tRump is dying a slow "death" in losing so much of his fan base on social media and losing some of his hold over his Republican mates. He's becoming yesterday's news, a paper tiger. That's worse than death for a sociopath: to be whimpering in the background while others are making a big noise in the spotlight.

Yvonne Fair - It Should Have Been Me

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 21 - 09:00 PM

Bugger, I meant Saigon, not Hanoi! :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 21 - 08:37 AM

As usual Steve presumes too much. "Most of your countrymen and women haven't even got a modest understanding of history."
Now he presumes to speak for THE ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD.
I PRESUME he will consider petitioning mods to remove this post although it has no ad hominum attacks that he is well known for, possibly the reason why some old UK threads became anathma to civility.
I do not agree that due to Biden's ignorance and our own misguided assumptions regarding democracy we will see a 'Return of the Trump part II'. I take no offense that Steve is being a devil's advocate, I just disagree for a number of valid reasons we could discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Aug 21 - 10:38 AM

Here is the "Peace agreement" Trump and Pompeo worked out in Feb. 2020.

Summing up by Paul Nuki on Twitter:

1/5 Have you read the deal agreed between the US and the Taliban?

It explains why the Taliban now rule Afghanistan again; the US just surrendered it, even promising financial support.

A quick thread follows but 1st a pic of Big Mike Pompeo doing the deal in Doha in Feb 2020...


2/ The deal itself was simple: The Taliban promised (on the lives of their mums, daughters etc) not to hurt the US or its allies again. In return, they got the following five things:

i/ A complete withdrawal of all US and allied troops under an agreed time line. Nice...


ii/ The immediate release of thousands of Taliban prisoners - you, know the ones guilty of terrorism, stoning women, blowing up US/UK troops, that sort of thing...

iii/ Dropping all sanctions/bounties on the Taliban by a week this Friday so they can get on with building their new caliphate unhindered. Great .. .

iv/ A firm promise not to threaten the Taliban ever again or interfere in the running of their new caliphate. Super ...

v/ Being friends with the Taliban in future and helping them build their new Islamic state via "economic cooperation". A new US/Afghani narco hub perhaps?? Smashing...

3/ If you think my take on this a bit one sided, I urge you to read the agreement for yourself.

It's basically Versailles, as drafted by the Taliban.

Here it is in full. It takes just 5 mins to read: https://2017-2021.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Signed-Agreement-02292020.pdf

4/ One last thought - was Big Mike under duress when he agreed it; was he threatened with torture, death or similar in order to sign away 20 years of blood and toil?

Not judging by the pictures from the event. He just seemed his normal plump, jovial self...


5/ And what of the Taliban; how did they seem at the signing ceremony in Doha last year?

Well, as usual, they appeared to be hanging tough. But having played an absolute blinder, they were almost certainly crying with laughter on the inside.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 21 - 12:06 PM

There is much to learn in 5 short pages... but while peering at Pompeo in terms of body language I noticed how Mike's eyes pleaded for eye contact and his hand tightly wrapped around the open straight limp hand of the Talib who gave no eye contact but instead stared at 2 other Talib leaders as if to say, 'Look this American is not my friend'.

For campaign purposes I would prefer to see Trump glad handing the Taliban. I would direct your attention back to the TREATY in terms of what is there and what is absent.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 19 Aug 21 - 09:17 AM

Yesterday saw a video on Fox News where Trump jeered at the Covid booster shot, saying Pfizer was just developing it to get hold of "billions of dollars". "Boosters?" he said, "Who ever heard of boosters?"

This morning I woke up with an insight. He's jealous. Jealousy is the crazy emotion, and it makes people do the most illogical things. Here Trump is, rejected by the voters and sidelined at one curlicued mansion or another. Other people are taking the lead, other people are making a difference, getting credit, and he's burning with rage. And he doesn't care whom he hurts.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Aug 21 - 06:29 PM

Yesterday Trump was booed at his own rally. The reason? He advocated the Covid vaccine. His reaction? "And you know what? I believe totally in your freedoms. I do. You've got to do what you have to do."

but also: "But, I recommend take the vaccines. I did it. It's good. Take the vaccines."

So there's that. Slightly better than "It is what it is."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Aug 21 - 07:11 PM

He is the original unreliable narrator in his own life, let alone leading a nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Aug 21 - 07:27 PM

robo posted the most important rally moment imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 21 - 07:59 AM

Trump voters are 50% vaccinated
Biden voters are 91% vaccinated

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Aug 21 - 10:48 AM

That’s good isn’t it? A chance that another wave of C-19 might drastically reduce the number of Trumpites in the US population. Fingers crossed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 25 Aug 21 - 11:22 AM

I heard the crowd that is said to have booed Trump for recommending the vaccine. It wasn't booing; it was mild cheering accompanied, perhaps, by some sounds of doubt. When a crowd boos, we know it.

I'm glad he recommended vaccination, and I hope he gets better with practice.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 21 - 01:05 PM

Thats my take too but if you work for MSNBC it was loud booing.

trump has the problem that the Qanon monster can turn on him if he dares confront their insanity even though he is still considered to have Christ like status right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Aug 21 - 01:17 PM

I suppose it's a good thing that trump was encouraging his dupes to get vaccinated the other day but we'd probably be much closer to having this thing under control if he and Melania had their vaccinations in public back in January rather than do it privately to keep from alienating the anti-vaxxers amongst his rabble. He's a sorry excuse for a human being.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Aug 21 - 04:30 PM

That reminds me , I met an anti vaxxer that was serious about concentraion camps awaiting fellow antivaxxers. Sure enough he defended Q by listing the things he predicted correctly. I hypnotized him by asking about ever having a car accident and he said, yes,"Were you hurt" yes, "what happened... then I suddenly changed his focus and he was in full discosure mode. I told him the first rule of fight club is not to talk about fight club and asked if he was a patriot. He was convinced I was the real deal and on his side. Then I asked if he was 'there'. He said he was in the hospital with lung clots from double pnumonia and Covid. In 3 minutes he had traced his ancestry gathered from his late father back to the 18th century. Some of his relatives were classical musicians, one saw the Reichstad burn and grandad was on Normandy beach and the bulge.
He's another example that high intelligence does not guarantee rationality. Or a salesman profession could amplify the ability to lie.
I have always been intrigued by borderline personalities like his.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 21 - 11:03 AM

The House investigation of Jan 6th should wrap up in about a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 10:00 AM

Yesterday I got my flu shot at a small pharmacy in the neighborhood; the pharmacist is my regular go-to person for giving good shots. And she is so depressed by the rise of COVID again, how people resist the logical treatment of getting the vaccine. I gave her a couple more of my three-layer cloth facemasks. She wears the N-95 at work but on her own around town wears the cloth ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 07:49 AM

However, trump's failings aside, I am of the opinion that he would have handled the evacuation from Kabul in a more satisfactory manner than biden - let's face it it didn't need to be that good to achieve better than useless!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 08:08 AM

Are you referring to the fucking traitor who tried to overthrow the U.S. government on Jan. 6 and has yet to be held accountable for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 08:12 AM

None other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 21 - 08:31 AM

Trump's failings and corruptions aside, there isn't much left.
Just a bit of fat tissue, a clump of hair and a pile of IOU's.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 21 - 07:19 PM

The 11 from heaven arc angels that are members of Congress who wish to conquor the USA are Rep.;
Laura Boebert
Marjorie Greene
Madison Cawthorn
Jim Jorden
Natt Gaetz
Andy Bigs
Louie Gommert
Jody Hice
Paul Gosar
Scott Perry
Mo Brooks

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 21 - 10:28 AM

McCarthy warns telecom and social media companies that comply with January 6 committee records requests

Executive privilege rears its head.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 21 - 10:59 AM

McCarthy basicly said to big Corp is "If you give proof to the commitee
that some Republicans did conspire with Trump for insurrection violence and attempted murder, when we are back in power we will punish you".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 21 - 07:52 PM

This is not privilege, it is thugism.
There are small time agent provocateurs from the proud boys who are yelling civil war and starting fist fights over mask mandates at local school board meetings. This too is thugism.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 21 - 09:17 PM

McCarthy and his ilk are in the legislative branch, they're not covered by Trump's expected claim of immunity (as much as he might try to protest it exists).

Now if someone could light a fire under Manchion and Sinema. They are stonewalling important business while McConnell wouldn't hesitate to lose the filibuster for if he gets another turn.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Sep 21 - 09:49 PM

There is nothing illegal about answering a Congressional probe or responding to supeona as McCarthy claimed. In fact it is SOP.
I saw Jim Jordan shake in his boots when asked about Trump phone calls on Jan.6th

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Sep 21 - 10:42 AM

Texas is a direct victim of the Trump administration - his packed Supreme Court (yes, Joe, add more members) and the anti-abortion and anti-voter nonsense. West Virginia and Arizona "Democratic in name only" senators Manchion and Sinema need to get the sticks out of their asses and act like Democrats. Everything is grinding to a halt - but the alternative is one of them decides to walk across the aisle and hand it all over to McConnell. Ugg. Time for more Democrats to be elected in 2022. Treat this election like 2018, let the anger at Trump be the momentum needed to knock more GOP Trumpites out of office.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Sep 21 - 07:41 AM

The local news is talking about putting the riot fence back up around the capitol building.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 21 - 11:17 AM

Trump's brand of idiocy has bled across the border northward:

The New York Times Canada Letter headline

Vaccine Passports Roll Out, and So Do Unruly Anti-Vaccine Protests

A crowd rallying against vaccination for Covid-19 clogged the streets outside a Vancouver hospital this week, haranguing and, in one case, assaulting health care workers, slowing ambulances, delaying patients entering for treatment and disturbing those recovering inside.

Kennedy Stewart, the city’s mayor, was among the many people to quickly condemn its members.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Sep 21 - 02:55 PM

And Melania Trump's actions are sending signals that
she won't do the First Lady thing a second time, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Sep 21 - 03:13 PM

She didn't really do them the first time, all things considered.

Meanwhile, his allies during the January 6 assault on the Capitol are trying to intimidate common carriers that might provide things like phone records to the committee investigating their actions. Republicans in crosshairs of 6 January panel begin campaign of intimidation
House leader Kevin McCarthy threatened retaliation against tech companies that share records with the committee

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 06 Sep 21 - 04:02 PM

An unforgettable image: Melania Trump at the announcement of tRump's victory in 2016. The atmosphere she was exuding was palpable, and it wasn't a happy atmosphere.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Sep 21 - 08:02 PM

Trump has been honored with a 2 foot statue of Mt Rushmoe with his head next to Lincoln, 2 other similar statues are in the secret possession of 2 other unknown people. I heard he has a secret model city of New Ottawa and Greenland USA. jus in case global warming is real.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Sep 21 - 09:38 PM

MOUNT RUSHMOE?!   I love it! That's GENIUS.

The four Stooges :
Moe, Larry, Curly Joe, and Donald John.

Wonder if there's an image somewhere?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 10:51 AM

It appears that former Trump press secretary Stephanie Grisham's book is going to do some damage to the Orange One.

Trump dictated a statement that made Grisham feel like 'a crazy cultist' — then he forgot he even composed it

Grisham was in that inner circle during the entire administration. From Wikipedia:

She was a press aide to Donald Trump's 2016 presidential campaign, and then a member of the presidential transition team. As Press Secretary, she was the first White House press secretary in American history to hold no press conferences, instead opting for interviews on conservative news outlets. Grisham assumed the role of chief of staff to the first lady on April 7, 2020.

She resigned on January 6, 2021 following the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol. In September 2021, she announced the publication of her book about her time working in the Trump administration, I'll Take Your Questions Now.

If you read Stephanie Winston Wolkoff's book about the fraud and excess of the Inaugural committee (that is still in the courts) Grisham helped with the presidential three-card-monte that let a lot of people dip deeply into the funds.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 11:08 AM

My guess is that she never held any pressers because she didn't want to have to answer toadstool penis questions. As much as I loathe trump and enjoy reading dirt on him this skank is almost as repulsive, carving him up after advocating for him so vehemently. What a rats nest that White House was.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 04:08 PM

She is the kind of snake who wants it both ways, partially anti Trump and partially pro Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 04:52 PM

It bears repeating that the "government was never our enemy -
Its the DARK MONEY!"

But it won't become a household phrase inside of 4 years.
'Billed Back Butter' ;^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 07:03 AM

Republicans say that
President Biden is trying to RAM DOWN YOUR THROAT;
Improved health, sustainable transportation options for millions of Americans by modernizing and expanding transit and rail networks across the country, while reducing greenhouse gas emissions. The Plan is the largest federal investment in public transit in history and is the largest federal investment in passenger rail since the creation of Amtrak.

Repair and rebuild our roads and bridges with a focus on climate change mitigation, resilience, equity, and safety for all users, including cyclists and pedestrians. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework is the single largest dedicated bridge investment since the construction of the interstate highway system.

Build a national network of electric vehicle (EV) chargers along highways and in rural and disadvantaged communities. The largest investment in EV infrastructure in history, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework will accomplish the President’s goal of building 500,000 EV chargers.

Electrify thousands of school and transit buses across the country to reduce harmful emissions and drive domestic manufacturing of zero emission vehicles and components.

Eliminate the nation’s lead service lines and pipes, delivering clean drinking water to up to ten million American families and more than 400,000 schools and child care facilities that currently don’t have it, including in Tribal nations and disadvantaged communities. The Plan is the largest investment in clean drinking water and waste water infrastructure in American history.

Connect every American to reliable high-speed internet, just as the federal government made a historic effort to provide electricity to every American nearly one hundred years ago. The Framework will also drive down prices for internet service and close the digital divide.

Upgrade our power infrastructure, including by building thousands of miles of new, resilient transmission lines to facilitate the expansion of renewable energy, including through a new Grid Authority. The Plan is the single largest investment in clean energy transmission in American history.

Create a first of its kind Infrastructure Financing Authority that will leverage billions of dollars into clean transportation and clean energy.

Make the largest investment in addressing legacy pollution in American history, a cleanup effort that will create good-paying union jobs and advance environmental justice.

Prepare more of our infrastructure for the impacts of climate change, cyber attacks, and extreme weather events. The Framework is the largest investment in the resilience of physical and natural systems in American history.
The Framework, which will generate significant economic benefits and returns, is financed through a combination of closing the tax gap, redirecting unspent emergency relief funds, targeted corporate user fees, and the macroeconomic impact of infrastructure investment.

BUT WORSE THAN THAT:
Two free years of community college
The legislation provides two years of free community college for all students, regardless of family income. It is anticipated to cost $108 billion.

The bill would also add $80 billion in funding for Pell Grants, which Democrats say hasn't kept pace with the increasing cost of college.

Child care and universal pre-K
Every family that applies shall be offered child care assistance for children ages 0 to 5. In all, the plan allocates roughly $450 billion to lower the cost of child care and provide two years of universal pre-K for 3- and 4-year-olds, according to the House Education and Labor Committee.

The panel estimated that this proposal would keep the cost of child care at or below 7% of most families' income.

Medicare expansion
This heavily debated provision would expand Medicare to include coverage of dental, hearing and vision services.


Manchin believes the program's solvency should be addressed before it is expanded.

"We need to stabilize it," he told reporters Friday, according to reports. "By 2026, you understand, the trust fund is going to be insolvent."

Extended child tax credit
Democrats expanded the child tax credit for 2021 in their $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief plan, and now want to extend it through 2025.

Under the enhancement, families receive $3,600 per child under age 6, and $3,000 per child age 6 to 18. Most families receive monthly payments of either $250 or $300 per child.

The full expanded child tax credit is available to individuals making up to $75,000 or married couples making up to $150,000.

While Mr. Biden has touted the tax credit's success in lifting children out of poverty, Manchin thinks Democrats' social spending package should impose work requirements for parents who qualify.

"You want to help the children and the parents that are basically providing for those children. There's no work requirements whatsoever. There's no education requirements whatsoever for better skill sets," he told CNN in an interview this month. "Don't you think, if we're going to help the children, that the people should make some effort?"

The House Ways and Means Committee has also endorsed permanent expansions of the earned income tax credit and child and dependent care tax credit.

Cut prescription drug prices
Another key provision in the bill is aimed at helping to slash prescription drug prices. Americans on average pay two to three times as much as people in other countries for prescription drugs, according to the White House. Among other things, the legislation allows Medicare to negotiate drug prices. Medicare is currently prohibited by law from negotiating for the best deal.

Paid family and medical leave
For the first time in history, the U.S. would have comprehensive paid leave, covering 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave. The legislation would replace at least two-thirds of earnings, up to $4,000 per month, while the lowest-paid workers would receive 80% of their income.

The White House has previously estimated the plan would cost $225 billion over the next 10 years.

Climate change
Combating climate change and slowing the rate at which Earth warms will mean transitioning away from fossil fuels, the major source of greenhouse gas emissions.

One provision that Manchin has objected to is the $150 billion "clean electricity performance program," which would pay utility companies that increase their renewable energy supplies by 4% per year. Companies that do not hit this benchmark would face financial penalties. The bill also provides significant funding for forest management and other wildfire control measures.

There are also measures to incentivize the buying of electric vehicles and the construction of charging stations; consumer rebates to homeowners who weatherfit their houses; and financial penalties for oil and gas producers for methane leaks, among other things.

Lesser-known provisions
The massive bill has a slew of lesser-known provisions as well.


For instance, the bill would authorize $5 million a year for the Small Business Administration for an entrepreneurial program for formerly incarcerated individuals.

The bill also directs $2.5 billion for the Justice Department to award competitive grants or contracts to local governments, community-based organizations and other groups to support intervention strategies to reduce community violence.

How they plan to pay for it
Democrats have also included a tax plan to pay for the provisions in the bill.

The corporate tax rate would rise from 21% to 26%, and the top income tax rate for Americans making over $400,000 would increase from 37% to 39.6%. The top capital gains rate would also go from 20% to 25%.

Democrats are also looking to beef up tax enforcement by the Internal Revenue Service as a vehicle for paying for the package.

The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates the tax changes spearheaded by Democrats would raise more than $2 trillion in revenue over 10 years, with roughly $1 trillion in tax increases from high-income Americans and nearly $1 trillion from corporate and international tax reforms.

I say "ram away"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 07:01 PM

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY ! Fox News is 25 years old today.
It started with a shock jock vibe and soon latched onto Islamic terrorism hatred and when Democrats tried not to slur all Muslims it evolved until today the Fox enemy are all Democrats. Domestic terrorism is fully supported by Fox News as well as Facebook anti vax conspiracies. I see the irony how their tactics are more like the initial Islamic terrorists they were against. Sure racial division is at the heart of all their success.
I just learned today that OAN News {a uber Fox} was started by AT&T.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 03:35 PM

Things are moving along. Trump wants to claim executive privilege for all of the documents in the National Archives, but Biden isn't letting him claim privilege for any of them. Bannon has tried to follow Trump's suit, claiming privilege, and is about to get his ass arrested.

Biden declines Trump request to withhold White House records from Jan. 6 committee

You may have to turn off adblockers or use the JustRead browser extension to read this.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 05:10 PM

I read that article with an overdose of delight, SRS. To think that the Biden White House has the power to protect or disclose the foibles of the Trump White House. What a great country this is (sometimes)!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 05:02 PM

"Foibles", or acts of treason?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 08:38 AM

America is not a evil place. If not for a gun culture and a generational teaching that exterminating all the colored brutes is a cultural priority, this is a nice place to live. All the greedy stupid mistakes can be fixed over time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 09:21 AM

It's not an evil place but it's trending in that direction. On January 6th a sitting president incited a mob to violently disrupt our most important democratic process and there probably will be very little, if any, repercussions from it for him or his henchmen due to the partisan politics that have poisoned the national atmosphere. Optimism is a good thing as long as you don't lose sight of reality.

In my previous post it should have been "acts of sedition" not "acts of treason".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 10:03 AM

What did the Heritage Foundation promote?
A conservative think tank promoting public policy research and analysis based on free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.

Well they have turned a blind eye to most of those values and pursue a Vladamir Putin doctrine that "people don't choose leaders, the people who count votes choose the leaders" .

Now a third of the country has new laws about who counts the votes and who can overturn real results and choose their own electors. Guess who are the alternate electors. Republicans.

The Federalist Society devotes thir efforts to a Conservative Supream Court branch of government. WHO PAYS those Foundations and Society's, its people like the former Koch Brothers who have significant Stalinesque heritage.

The evil is in the Dark Money and the helpful idiot conspiracy theorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 10:19 AM

BAD IDEAS that make money temporarily are dangerous and can lead to a failed nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 06:13 PM

Allen West, Fox News contributor, is in the hospital with Covid and Ivermectin and Hydrochloroquin overdose.
He refused vaccines from the start and is still denying Covid is worse than flu.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 06:23 PM

You're going to get him back. His rabble-rousing rally in Iowa showed that he hasn't lost his touch. No mud is going to stick. If you can't find a way to get him in jail, be very afraid. Along with the rest of the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 21 - 09:33 AM

Ron Watkins, the 8chan Troll and QAnon Evangelist, Says He's Running for Congress
Watkins, who is widely suspected of being behind the QAnon conspiracy theory, wants to represent Arizona in 2021

Remember Newt Gingrich and Pat Robertson and all of the Tea Party folks? When Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz seemed as bad as it could get?

That was childsplay compared to this guy. Trump really unlocked a Pandora's box of bad behavior in politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Oct 21 - 09:46 AM

Good comparison's, like the PTL Club on steroids and meth.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 21 - 10:20 AM

And this is a self-inflicted wound, Hunter Biden is like a modern day Billy Carter or Roger Clinton.

Is Hunter Biden’s art project painting the president into an ethical corner? He seems to have spent his entire adult life trading on his father's name. That's why he was an easy target for Trump (who, if he understands anything, understands about trading on the family name.)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Oct 21 - 10:43 AM

He is more like a self inflicted son. Perhaps you could change his name to Blaagg and tie him to an ant hill.
Families, whatchagonna do.
Growing up in the shadow of Bo ain't easy either.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 21 - 04:26 PM

If you read the Mary Trump book about Trump last year, you know that except for the Trump parents, the siblings and their kids are less of an embarrassment than the man himself. Mostly. His parents were pretty awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 21 - 10:11 PM

Ex-intel official who created controversial Trump Russia dossier speaks out

Former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, the man behind the "Steele Dossier" that claimed Russian officials held compromising information on former President Donald Trump, defended the claims made in the dossier in his first on-camera interview since it was revealed in 2017.

In a clip from an upcoming ABC News documentary released Sunday, Steele said he decided to sit down for an interview now because he wanted to "set the record straight" about his role in the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. ABC released a portion of the documentary featuring parts of Steele's interview on Sunday, with the full documentary slated to be released on Hulu early Monday morning.

"Most of the world first heard your name about five years ago, but you stayed silent up until now. Why speak out now?" host George Stephanopoulos asked.

"I think the first and most important (reason) is that the problems we identified back in 2016 haven't gone away, and arguably have actually got worse, and I thought it was important to come and set the record straight," Steele said.

Steele's unverified dossier became one of the most controversial aspects of the FBI's investigation into Trump and Russia that led to special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation. Many of the claims, such as the so-called "pee tape," were never proven, despite the FBI's efforts to verify salacious allegations and years of congressional investigators looking into the claims involving the former president and Russia.

Follow the link for the rest.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Oct 21 - 06:49 PM

Trump is sueing the 1-6 commitee for being an overbroad 'witchunt'. He is also claiming executive privildge as 45th President. Thats like claiming immunity as a former Emmy winner.
The Supream Court agrees with me.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 02:11 PM

One among several things that have changed since the first instance of the Steele Dossier story is that supposed a video document of the 'pee tape' were to emerge at any time from the present onward, no doubt the defense on the part of Tump would be that it's a deep fake.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 06:15 PM

In a comparison of Steve Bannon and Colin Powell there are many contrasts.
Let me count the ways;
Hygiene, Honor, Duty, Intellect, Respondsibility...(3 thousand factors later)...American, Empathy, Honesty and Good Intentions.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 07:19 PM

Colin Powell was a main cheerleader, and main liar, when it came to the invasion of Iraq. He told us that the evidence for Saddam's weapons of mass destruction was unarguable and rock-solid when he knew very well that it wasn't. I can't think that the families of the quarter-million dead Iraqi civilians would be agreeing with you about his duty, honesty, empathy and good intentions. All of his expressed regrets and switching of sides won't bring a single one of those people back. You could have added flawed and weak to your list. He should have told Bush where to get off instead of peddling the lies to the UN.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 09:14 PM

Steve, you're not perhaps as familiar with the Colin Powell story as Americans are. He was duped by a CIA plot that put forward the story of an unreliable Iraqi source - and he regretted that for the rest of his life.

Bush shouldn't have started the Iraq war, but that was Bush's decision, and he also got the bad intelligence. The astonishing part is how much influence one particularly bad source seemed to wield.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 09:16 PM

But this thread is about Trump.

The Trump Administration Used Its Food Aid Program for Political Gain, Congressional Investigators Find
The Food to Families program, touted by Ivanka Trump, gave tens of millions of dollars to unqualified firms and was also used to promote then-President Trump.

A $6 billion federal program created to provide fresh produce to families affected by the pandemic was mismanaged and used by the Trump administration for political gain, a new congressional report has found.

As a ProPublica investigation revealed last spring and as the new report further details, the Farmers to Families Food Box program gave contracts to companies that had no relevant experience and often lacked necessary licenses. The House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Crisis, which released its report last week, found that former President Donald Trump’s administration did not adequately screen contractor applications or identify red flags in bid proposals.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 09:18 PM

When Bannon is sitting in jail he will communicate with the Proud Boys to break him out. It will be called operation Base Steal day.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 03:47 AM

I've read the.Colin Powell story very carefully in recent days. I know about the CIA's part. He made those claims at the UN in the kind of words I've described knowing that he'd seen no evidence and that he was passing on what he definitely should have known to have been a potential untruth, yet his words transmitted certainty. He held one of the highest and most influential offices in the western world. There's plenty of connection with his time and Trump. He suffered later for his lies but Blair and Bush both got away with it (they both won their next elections, for example). They discovered that lies, even ones that kill thousands, can be a useful political ploy. Since then we've had two of the worst serial liars in political history in power in our two countries. Bush, Blair, Powell, Johnson and Trump found that lies can suit your political agenda very nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 06:21 AM

Ivanka Trump in charge of a 6 billion dollar food program, what could go wrong with talent like that?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 12:07 PM

The Trump Administration Used Its Food Aid Program for Political Gain, Congressional Investigators Find

The Food to Families program, touted by Ivanka Trump, gave tens of millions of dollars to unqualified firms and was also used to promote then-President Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 01:04 PM

Steve... Powell was assured by the CIA and Bush that they had solid evidence of WMDs. They wanted a statement immediately... he gave them he benefit of the doubt and read it......... and began to suspect a problem and regret it within a very short time.
   Yes, we can play "shoot the messenger", but General Powell's loyalty as a good soldier was at once a virtue... and a problem.
   He did suffer for his attempt to follow the lead of those who simply wanted the invasion. For me, it doesn't tarnish his basic character & legacy much at all.. the 'mistake' should be only a footnote in the history books on the pages describing how Cheney..thru Bush.. pushed this story.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 02:03 PM

...and a quarter of a million civilian deaths, Bill...?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 04:32 PM

That's on the CIA and on Dubya wanting to one-up his old man as far as war. What we're trying to tell you, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 06:05 PM

https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/colin-powell-quotes

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 06:33 PM

General Powell was yet more collateral damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 06:36 PM

I absolutely know what you're trying to tell me. The irreducible fact is that he was complicit in peddling a terrible lie that, ultimately, led to misery and death for hundreds of thousands of non-combatants. His contrition, no matter how genuine (and I believe it was) can never mitigate the consequences of his part in the unjust invasion of Iraq. The obstinate point here is that the certainty he expressed to the UN was completely unjustified, and, worse, he knew it. I understand how you yanks want to cling to any scrap of integrity that you can find in your failed statesmen, and how we shouldn't speak ill of the dead, etc., but this guy aided and abetted the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians. Not only that, he helped to legitimise the political expediency of telling barefaced lies, a phenomenon that we are currently reaping the whirlwind of.

I'm sure that he was a lovely man. You need to be a damn sight more than that when you are in one of the most powerful positions on the planet. He failed that test. However, were I to believe in heaven and hell, which I don't, then I feel that St Peter might just, on a fine balance, give him the benefit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 07:25 AM

I’m not a Yank, Steve, but I agree with the consensus here that General Powell was far more sinned against than sinning. I don’t believe he *knew* the intelligence upon which he based his decision was dishonest. Reliable? That’s different; any intelligence assessment can be both wildly unreliable and completely tru-blue honest at the same time.

As a well-trained, widely experienced combat veteran, he was singularly ill-prepared for American-style national and international politics. In Army World, everyone on your side is fighting the same enemy you are for the same reasons, and deliberately feeding duff gen to your chain of command is a mortal sin, if not treason.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 07:34 AM

Thanks for that insight, Charmion.
To me Secretary Powell was one of the finest public servants of my lifetime who got railroaded by several of the worst. I don't give him a pass on his involvement in the Irag affair but it doesn't nullify all the good things he did for this country as a soldier and a diplomat.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 07:55 AM

Its less nuanced than that.
In Trump World, Colin Powell was everything they hate; Harlem born of Jamaican immigrants, a Never Trumper, a defender of Democracy and not white. He was the Jackie Robinson of high US goverment office with the exception of Thurgood Marshall. I can not help but suspect a deep seated racist hatred by Powell's critics. In 1996 Colin said he could no longer be a Republican as the party became more anti diversity.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 08:01 AM

As you often do, you're mashing up two separate eras for gawd knows what reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 08:31 AM

I'm not very keen on the insinuation that criticising Powell means that I may be racist. That is just cheap. Let me remind you that I have said that, in spite of my criticism of him, St Peter would still have let him in. OK?

Yes he might have been politically naive. But going to the UN to tell the Bush/Blair lies, lies that were going to drive an illegal war that killed all those civilians and which any bloody fool could see was going to visit all kinds of chaos and inhumanity on the region and beyond. A man in his position, expressing such rock-solid certainty...a massive error that had massive repercussions. Just one more thing, going back to that time. There were plenty of Bush/Blair dissenters in this country who KNEW that those two were determined to go to war, come what may. We stood in the streets to protest, etc., well before it all kicked off. We watched with dismay as the weapons inspectors were determinedly sidelined. Blair lied to Parliament. Lied. We knew he was lying. We knew there was no evidence of those weapons because we knew that if they'd existed they'd have been plastered all over the media in order to get us onside. Ordinary people may not have been seeing the intelligence but we knew at least that there was something wrong. Colin Powell saw all this yet his speech contained not one scintilla of doubt. We all know that intelligence is often dodgy and always incomplete. He could have said no to Bush, yes he could. He could have resigned. We can forgive him for his naivity but let's at least not view the vile consequences of his actions through rose-coloured glasses.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 08:50 AM

Yes Gilly times change.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 10:43 AM

certainty he expressed to the UN was completely unjustified, and, worse, he knew it.

He didn't "know it."

He could have resigned. We can forgive him for his naivity but let's at least not view the vile consequences of his actions through rose-coloured glasses.

No, he couldn't resign if he didn't agree with the politicians.

Have you heard nothing General Milley said last month and before? He served under Trump to protect the country and to do his job, and it isn't a political job, it's a military job. You don't quit your military job because you have a political disagreement.

The thing with Trump is that he was able to get military people fired when they were doing their jobs (think of the Vindman twins), but they didn't quit.

Steve, this thread is about Trump's actions and effects. Stop trashing Powell, move on to the subject of the thread or move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 01:13 PM

The gears of Justice move slowly, perhaps too slowly. Trump is not even close to being tried for his insurrection violence or any of his other crimes. Even the Parkland mass shooter is finally getting his day in court and that tradjedy happened years ago.

I watched Four Hours at the Capitol last night. I hope the work recieves awards. It is POWERFUL.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 02:01 PM

For the record, I got intelligence reports, too, and they said *it was strongly indicated* there were WMDs there. What Gen Powell knew was what intelligence people in the field told him. It was still a supposition, and was not enough to start a war over.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 04:07 PM

The trial of Donald Trump the game show star and President will be in part history repeating itself.

"Fame, like a two-edg’d Sword, does cut both ways,
And equally, doth praise Men, and dispraise,
Cæsar and Pompey were surnamed Great,
By Sycophants, and in their own Gazett,
Being great Cons and Butchers, they great Fame did get."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 04:24 PM

No need to shout, Maggie. I read all responses to my posts before posting again. Oh yes, he could have resigned in protest at being ordered to make that speech. He even said so himself, actually. And there is a massive connection to Trump in what happened at that time. Telling massive lies in order to advance your nefarious cause became a thing under Bush and Blair that you could now get away with. Even be responsible, via your lies, for hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, yet still win your next election, which they both did. Don't think for one minute that this was lost on Donald Trump and Boris Johnson. More sinister still is that Trump lied his way through four years of presidency and came out just as strong. He got even more votes than the time before. Biden vs Trump next time round? Don't waste your dollars betting on Biden. So when did the big lying start, Maggie?

Colin Powell came across as an upright kind of bloke who naively made a terrible mistake. At least he was contrite. But I'm afraid that his mistake will always be an ineradicable part of his legacy. I'm sure he's up there with the angels.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 04:39 AM

Steve, this thread is about Trump's actions and effects. Stop trashing Powell, move on to the subject of the thread or move on.

If you think that is confusing the issue, then maybe you can appreciate how difficult it is to follow any reasonable discussion of UK politics when so many widely differing points are crammed into a single thread thread.

DC

---

We have constrained the Trump conversation to a single thread based upon the example of too many UK political threads. Live and learn. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 05:12 AM

Are the powers that be in the USA any nearer to nailing the bastard yet? We in the UK have a lot invested in your doing so as the sooner it happens, the sooner we can nail our own corrupt crew.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 07:41 AM

A failed coup becomes practice for a successful coup.
What the mother trumping hell is Biden to do
Focus on saving Democracy or get his New Deal
Save the body so the mind survives is what I feel

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 11:03 AM

So Trump is starting his own social media platform because he's been denied his free speech. Oh, if you join Truth Social, by the way, don't expect to be able to criticise it...That kind of free speech ain't allowed...

Here's a great letter for all those of us (myself not included) for those of us who can't face life without Facebook:

A letter from Peter White of Holbrook in Derbyshire which was published in The Oldie magazine a number of years back still makes me giggle.

"I haven't got a computer, but I was told about Facebook and Twitter, and am trying to make friends outside Facebook and Twitter while applying the same principles.
"Every day, I walk down the street and tell passers-by what I have eaten, how I feel, what I have done the night before and what I will do for the rest of the day. I give them pictures of my wife, my daughter, my dog and me gardening and on holiday, spending time by the pool. I also listen to their conversations, tell them I 'like' them and give them my opinion on every subject that interests me....whether it interests them or not.
"And it works. I already have four people following me: two police officers, a social worker and a psychiatrist."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 12:35 PM

Pranksters have already defaced Trump’s new social network

Truth Social has some unusual rules for a Trump-run site: It reserves the right to ban users and safeguard itself from lawsuits with Section 230 protections. It also prohibits ‘excessive use of capital letters.’

Former president Donald Trump and his team declared Wednesday night that they would soon launch a “media powerhouse” that would help them triumph in their long-running war against Big Tech. But within hours, pranksters found what appeared to be an unreleased test version and posted a picture of a defecating pig to the “donaldjtrump” account.

The site, called Truth Social, has since been pulled offline, evidence that Trump is likely to face a daunting challenge in building an Internet business that can stand on its own.

Banned by all major social networks after his supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, Trump has for months agitated to regain the online megaphone that once blasted his voice around the world. In a presentation released Wednesday by his new media company, Trump Media & Technology Group, his team hailed the new social network as the first tentpole for a Trump-led media, news and Internet empire that would one day compete with CNN, Disney and Facebook.

But the site’s early hours revealed lax security, rehashed features and a flurry of bizarre design decisions. An open sign-up page allowed anyone to use the site shortly after it was revealed, sparking the creation of the “donaldjtrump” account and the pig posting. A Washington Post reporter was able to register and post under the account name “mikepence” without any stops in place. New sign-ups were blocked shortly after.

A Trump Media & Technology Group spokesperson did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 03:09 PM

Recall the early days of Trump and social media like facebook and Twitter, Trump was quirky crazy hazy and funny in a sick way. It succeeded in capturing eyeballs. BUT A SERIOUS TRUMP SITE is destined for failure. People loved that kofefee nonsense. If he was smart he would run with the shitting pig meme and ever popular insult theme. Thank Dog he isn't smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 03:18 PM

He's a bloody sight smarter than you think. He's hot favourite to be the next Republican candidate. And that means another term. When are you guys going to wake up and nail him?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 03:29 PM

Maybe you should concentrate on the horrific mess you've made of your own politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 04:19 PM

Trump's 'Nazi Lite' brand became popular with militia types, racists and cultists. His 'dark brew' is not a best seller. Good people on both sides is mostly composed of victim politics on the fascist side and sanity hopefulls on the progressive side.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 04:30 PM

We do, gillymor. But yours has far more potential to wreck democracy worldwide. You're bigger and stronger than us. And, with him at the helm, a damn sight more dangerous. By the way, it would be great if some of you yanks didn't automatically think that you get your politics better than anyone else. You elected Reagan. You elected Bush. Twice. You elected Trump, and in less than three years you're going to elect him again. Because you're so big and powerful, that's our business too.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 05:13 PM

Trump isn't "smart" in an intelligence way, Trump is a narcissist who has managed for most of his life to be a fuck-up whose father or company bailed him out (or the courts - when he left all of his creditors and employees dangling after all of his bankruptcies that are a legal "get-out-of-jail-free card). He is smart at cheating. His grades were never released from University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School and it's clear in his niece Mary's first book about him that everyone understood that he paid other people to write papers and take tests.

Fact-Checking All of the Mysteries Surrounding Donald Trump and Penn
Why is everything about Trump’s time at Wharton shrouded in secrecy? We set out to uncover the truth.

Ahh, the college transcript. Trump famously graduated from Penn’s Wharton School in 1968 — a fact he reminds audiences of over and over again. (Per Penn’s student newspaper, the Daily Pennsylvanian, he publicly name-dropped Wharton 52 times between June 2015 and January 2018.) But despite all his humblebragging about that Wharton degree, Trump has never allowed his academic performance there to be made public.

“This was a major, major thing with Trump — that people might think he’s stupid,” Michael Wolff told me around the time of Siege’s publication earlier this summer. “The focus of that for Trump is the college transcripts, which are apparently terrible. I’ve spoken to friends of Trump from that time, and this was a guy that was obviously not interested in school and possibly never read a book in his life. For everyone that had known him then and years afterward, the assumption was that he had terrible grades, he was a lackluster student at best.”

In truth, Trump’s Wharton GPA is just one of many mysteries surrounding the 45th president’s relationship with Penn, Philadelphia’s most powerful private institution, which, unwittingly or not, helped unleash Trump on the world.

I'm sure there are juicy stories about the kids at Wharton - did any of them ever do the work or read the books? I'm not pasting the entire article here, but it sounds like of the four older kids, Ivanka did the coursework and graduated cum laude.

Perhaps the biggest reason for this shroud of mystery is Penn itself; the school’s sphinx-like reticence about its most famous alumnus plays at times like a silent scream. For instance, Penn has never had Trump deliver a commencement speech or conferred an honorary degree on him. In the wake of his election, Penn tour guides were discouraged from bringing up the T-word and issued simple instructions for handling questions about Trump’s tenure at Penn: Keep it short and sweet — “Yes, he graduated from Wharton in 1968” — and leave it at that. Tell Penn you’re writing an article about Donald Trump’s time there, and you’ll get the academic version of name, rank and serial number: “Donald J. Trump earned a B.S. in real estate, which was awarded on May 20, 1968,” says Ron Ozio, Penn’s director of media relations, declining my request for an interview. Which is peculiar, given that most universities make a lot of marketing hay out of an alumnus in the White House — and Trump is Penn’s first.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 05:32 PM

Thing is, Maggie, in this day and age you don't have to be smart in an intelligence way. You have to be smart in a populist way. That's your man and that's what you're up against. What we're all up against.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 06:15 PM

How the 'Stop the Steal' movement outwitted Facebook ahead of the Jan. 6 insurrection

Hours after polls closed on Nov. 3, angry Donald Trump supporters on Facebook coalesced around a rallying cry now synonymous with the siege on the U.S. Capitol: "Stop the Steal."

Inside Facebook, employees were watching with concern.

The presidential election may have passed without major incident, but in its wake, "angry vitriol and a slew of conspiracy theories" were fomenting, Facebook staff wrote in an internal report on the Stop the Steal movement earlier this year. Supporters perpetuated the lie that the election had been stolen from then-President Donald Trump — a lie that Trump himself had been stoking for months.

By the time Facebook banned the first Stop the Steal group on Nov. 5, for falsely casting doubt on the legitimacy of the election and calling for violence, the group had already mushroomed to more than 360,000 members. Every hour, tens of thousands of people were joining.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 09:55 AM

"You elected Trump, and in less than three years you're going to elect him again."

Can you let me have the lottery numbers for this weeks draw?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 11:51 AM

A view from this end, from today's Observer:

Trump lost the White House bully pulpit and a US president’s ability to command instant global attention. Personally wounding was the ban imposed by Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, which belatedly agreed he posed a threat to democracy. Trump was cut off from social media and his supporter base. He was all but silenced.

What worse fate could there be for a narcissist who craves constant attention and approval? Exiled to his luxury Florida estate, the Elba of the Everglades, Trump has struggled since to regain his voice. Last week, he made his move. The result: the so-called Truth Social media app, launching next year.

The newly formed company behind the app, Trump Media and Technology Group, plans to disseminate what it calls “anti-woke” news, debate and entertainment to Americans deprived of honest, impartial media outlets. This is total drivel, of course, coming from the mouth of the most shameless liar in modern US history.

Abusing truth as only Trump can, Truth Social will more likely prove both false and antisocial. It’s his way of regaining lost ground, prior to a wished-for presidential comeback in 2024. It’s a political propaganda platform intended to magnify and exploit the hate, ignorance and prejudice on which he feeds. MPs please note: Trump is the ultimate definition of “online harms”......

......Steve Bannon, one of his best-known former aides, has been found in contempt of Congress for refusing to testify to the 6 January inquiry and faces possible criminal prosecution. Since Trump ordered all his minions to act similarly, the legal bull’s-eye pinned to his back grows ever more unmissable.

Yet for all that, Trump remains first choice among Republican voters for the party’s presidential nomination. His average “favourable/unfavourable” rating is almost identical to Biden’s among the electorate as a whole. And he has shown how dangerous he can be when he reaches a wide audience, which is why Truth Social is worrying.

Better start shooting at that bull's-eye, America.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 11:08 PM

For 160 years America has tried to not talk honestly about the Civil War, not in the racist north or south. The foundation of this racism became institutiomalized in a quiet open secret.
Textbooks in NYS had a chapter on the War Between the States and the South had a chapter on The War of Northern Aggression.
Black Lives Matter arose from the slow motion war and murder of black people but the racists are still trying to control the narrative by banning CRT and insisting slavery was rare but 'civil'.
Usually the winners write the narrative but the loss of wealth and property of white southerners remains a pill too bitter to swallow and inspire a hate that white families harbor with pride.

We are talking about it now. The insurrectionists are openly feeling vindicated by Trump. This is the Civil War II we are fighting again.
Few are still willing to call it what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 08:11 AM

Reports on BBC News today of starving Afghan families having to sell children in order to feed the rest of their families. Think about that for a few moments…

Now, remind me again who made the deal with the Taliban, without involving the legitimate government of Afghanistan, for the withdrawal of US forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 09:04 AM

Kill Biden in the crib: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/573617-bannon-says-he-discussed-how-to-kill-this-administration-in-the-crib

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 05:35 PM

Ahead of Jan. 6, Willard hotel in downtown D.C. was a Trump team ‘command center’ for effort to deny Biden the presidency

They called it the “command center,” a set of rooms and suites in the posh Willard hotel a block from the White House where some of President Donald Trump’s most loyal lieutenants were working day and night with one goal in mind: overturning the results of the 2020 election.

The Jan. 6 rally on the Ellipse and the ensuing attack on the Capitol by a pro-Trump mob would draw the world’s attention to the quest to physically block Congress from affirming Joe Biden’s victory. But the activities at the Willard that week add to an emerging picture of a less visible effort, mapped out in memos by a conservative pro-Trump legal scholar and pursued by a team of presidential advisers and lawyers seeking to pull off what they claim was a legal strategy to reinstate Trump for a second term.

They were led by Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani. Former chief White House strategist Stephen K. Bannon was an occasional presence as the effort’s senior political adviser. Former New York City police commissioner Bernard Kerik was there as an investigator. Also present was John Eastman, the scholar, who outlined scenarios for denying Biden the presidency in an Oval Office meeting on Jan. 4 with Trump and Vice President Mike Pence.

They sought to make the case to Pence and ramp up pressure on him to take actions on Jan. 6 that Eastman suggested were within his powers, three people familiar with the operation said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations. Their activities included finding and publicizing alleged evidence of fraud, urging members of state legislatures to challenge Biden’s victory and calling on the Trump-supporting public to press Republican officials in key states.

The effort underscores the extent to which Trump and a handful of true believers were working until the last possible moment to subvert the will of the voters, seeking to pressure Pence to delay or even block certification of the election, leveraging any possible constitutional loophole to test the boundaries of American democracy.

“I firmly believed then, as I believe now, that the vice president — as president of the Senate — had the constitutional power to send the issue back to the states for 10 days to investigate the widespread fraud and report back well in advance of Inauguration Day, January 20th,” one of those present, senior campaign aide and former White House special assistant Boris Epshteyn, told The Washington Post. “Our efforts were focused on conveying that message.” . . . .But after other efforts failed, as Jan. 6 neared, the Eastman strategy came into bloom. Eastman, a Federalist Society member, law professor and former clerk for Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, had the conservative legal credentials to burnish the argument.

Eastman’s first memo, only two pages long, described a six-point plan by which Pence could effectively commandeer the electoral counting process and enable Trump to win. The memo was first revealed last month in the book “Peril,” by Washington Post writers Bob Woodward and Robert Costa.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 06:09 PM

Trump repeatedly urged Pense to listen to Eastman. Eastman lacked several things like real election fraud, any alternate electors and a stealing of the certified electoral ballots. Congressional staffers had hidden them from rioters.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 06:16 PM

The thousands of Trump campaign T shirts that said MAGA 2020 CIVIL WAR are interesting no? They were made before Pense chickened out.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 07:33 PM

Just in case you thought I was kidding: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22225538/capitol-insurrection-riot-sweatshirts-hats
The NYT is better but has a paywall

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 10:59 PM

A story that hit Rolling Stone on Sunday places members of Congress with the planners of the January 6 insurrection, but the mainstream media hasn't reported yet. I'm hoping it's just a fact-checking thing, but after a day or more and nothing, it gives one pause. EXCLUSIVE: Jan. 6 Protest Organizers Say They Participated in ‘Dozens’ of Planning Meetings With Members of Congress and White House Staff

Two sources are communicating with House investigators and detailed a stunning series of allegations to Rolling Stone, including a promise of a “blanket pardon” from the Oval Office

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Oct 21 - 06:47 AM

That news has begun talk of an expulsion of members of Congress by other members. Getting it right is paramount to getting it fast.
Cooberation of evidence makes for a stronger case but fact fatigue may make many bury their head in the sand. Timing a bombshell news release is always a factor but is hard to crystal ball the impact.

We knew back in January that Greene conducted tour groups in the capitol bld. that was deemed against the Covid rules days before Jan 6.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Oct 21 - 09:43 AM

Greene had been a member of congress for three whole days and was already conducting tours of the US Capitol. She certainly got right to work for The Donald.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Oct 21 - 01:08 PM

A Trump 2020 victory Cruise thru the Bermuda Triangle got canceled due to loss of interest and Covid. Loser Cruisers dodged an iceburg in Bermuda then vanished

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 09:16 PM

Sorry Australia, I know you are a great country and friend but we will no longer mail anything to you anymore nor will we have an Ambassador to your country.
Republicans will not allow it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 09:34 PM

Oz can mail anything to us because their postal system still works.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 09:49 PM

I know you are a continent but our Postmaster General DeJoie thinks you are an island.
I think he has a private deal and kick back from Fed Ex.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 12:28 AM

Consumers fume after US Postal Service suspends Australian deliveries publ. Oct 1

USPS Suspends Package Services to Australia Due to COVID-19 Outbreak published Sept 3, with comments from late October

sniff, cry ...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 05:39 AM

Well when it comes to carbon dioxide emissions, Australia and the US should be good friends. The Oz prime minister stated last week that he wouldn't threaten "the Australian way of life" by cutting coal production and exports. I don't think he's noticed his heatwaves, droughts and wildfires. And here's something else: steelmaking is one of the biggest carbon emitters, around 8% of all greenhouse gases. China is by far the world's biggest steel producer, producing eight times more steel that the next biggest. Guess who gets lots of that Oz coal (which you need to make steel). Every ton of steel made produces 1.8 tons of carbon dioxide. Even more: to make steel you need iron ore. Sixty percent of the ore that China uses comes from, guess where...Australia. Enjoy your Australian way of life, you Aussies. It won't be lasting as long as you think...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 08:36 AM

At the end of W's Presidency the deregulated Wall Street caused many people to lose their home of many years or go underwater if they still owed money. This event is stuck in the minds of Americans in the form of mistrust and a hatred of government. Now lately the new medicine turned out to be highly addictive unto death. That caused a little more distrust and feeling less than happy.

Enter Donald Trump who can't tell the truth for sixty seconds but exploits distrust and hate. It was easy to believe his claims that they were lied to and dark skinned people are the cause.

A miracle vaccine? Its got to be a lie, even Facebook says so.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 09:29 AM

Our Prime Minister famously said he didn't hold a hose (he went to Hawaii for a family holiday in the middle of the 2019 bushfires)

He might speak (officially) for the country but a majority don't agree with him 7 in 10 Australians want government to take more action on climate, survey finds

With a net zero plan in his bag, Scott Morrison heads for the COP26 conference in Glasgow amid a climate policy storm

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 04:20 PM

The obstacles of climate change are many and the solutions are few.
We missed the 50 year window to respond effectively in lieu of greed.
We won't blame ourselves since we always others so we might blame you.
Some day everyone becomes a refugee and immigrant that we can't feed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 06:25 PM

Whilst I don't want to divert the thread away from Trump's misdeeds (though I shudder to think about the way we'd be going on climate change had he got a second term), I would like to say that I try to recycle whatever I can (my utility room is cluttered with bags containing separated-out cardboard, paper, bottles, plastic...), I drive a car that routinely does 57 to the gallon, I try to buy organic food and I grow a lot of my own, I have a big garden dedicated to wildlife, etc., etc., I honestly don't know why I'm bothering. China is not going to cut its emissions in any real way anytime soon. India has said cheerfully that it will carry on burning coal for decades to come. Australia won't allow its Australian way of life to be threatened so will continue to supply coal and iron ore to China (Oz is the second-biggest coal exporter in the world). Bolsinaro will continue to allow logging in the Amazon to the extent that the rainforest is now a net carbon emitter rather than a carbon absorber. The US, honestly as seen from this end, doesn't seem to be much interested in the climate crisis (I don't exonerate my own country, by the way). My word, any US politician who, for example, suggested that the price of petrol (gas, yeah?) should go up to even half of what we are paying in the UK would be out on his ear in half an hour...

So there's China, India, Australia, the US... they're not that bothered. So I turn my thermostat down by a degree and shove my plastic milk bottle into the correct slot down the recycling centre. I'll carry on doing it but I'd really like somebody to tell me why I should bother....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 06:40 PM

Oh, it's £1.50 a litre here, just about, by the way. So that's, near as dammit, $2 per litre your end. I'll let you convert that to your wacky gallons. I make it just a bit shy of $8 per your gallon. You up for that, guys? You pay about half of what we pay...

Your oil guys still have a big grip, innit...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 21 - 12:53 PM

Back to Trump, in this case, his effect:

Trumpism without Trump: how Republican dog-whistles exploited Democratic divisions

Glenn Youngkin won the Virginia governor’s race by playing dirty over CRT – and the Democrats had no answer [my note: CRT being the non-existent "Critical Race Theory" people are pretending is taught in any K-12 school]

No film director could have choreographed it better. At the very moment Joe Biden emerged from his helicopter into a cold, dark night on the White House south lawn, a new adversary was delivering his victory speech before a hot-blooded crowd in northern Virginia. . . .

The Republican party was back in business, ready to take on a weakened president whose party is racked by infighting. Youngkin showed the way by deploying a formidable new weapon to which Democrats had no answer: a racist culture war fought over children.

The businessman turned politician promised to ban critical race theory (CRT) from Virginia’s schools on his first day in office. It mattered little that CRT, an academic discipline that examines the ways in which racism operates in US laws and society, is not taught in Virginia’s schools.

Moral panic over CRT has been fuelled for more than a year by Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News and other rightwing media, an apparent backlash to racial justice protests that followed the police murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis last year. In such hands, CRT became a catch-all for any teaching about race and American history.

“It is a very convenient soundbite for encapsulating everything about the reckoning after George Floyd’s death and the Black Lives Matter movement,” said Tanya Hernández, a law professor at Fordham University in New York.

“It is a way censor to gag and suppress any kind of reconsideration of our status quo. . . .

Tara Setmayer, a senior adviser to the Lincoln Project, a group opposed to Donald Trump and Trumpism, said: “Republicans are the masters at finding an issue playing on the racial resentment and grievance within the Republican party base and creating this perception that somehow this is a threat to children, to white America, and some type of invasion of the education system.

“Critical race theory doesn’t even exist here and most people don’t know what it is. But it is a masterclass in how perception is reality and, when propaganda isn’t pushed back on, it can metastasise in ways that become problematic in campaigns. That’s exactly what happened in Virginia.”

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 21 - 10:54 AM

Democrats can whine if they want but its about time they take a course in messaging. To hell with defund the.. or a succint 27 syllable phrase or even fighting fired with fired.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 05:45 AM

Muppets Big Bird said it got vaccinated in the wing. Republicans are crying that government propoganda is being used on kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 08:20 AM

America is an experiment. Founding fathers invented a very flawed version but it is getting better at a glacial speed. People who were born here in the 80's do not believe in the American dream of advancement as much as new immigrants. People from the 60's see more evidence of the America dream than younger folks.
Its been 50 years of giving to the rich but today they will be asked to pay their fair share. America is unique in inventing jazz, rock, hop and scientific discoveries that were gleaned globally.
We know who really are the most anti american, and those are the ones who are the anti scientific 'real americans'.
"If you took Ivermectin, you might be anti American".
If you dream of shooting immigrants, you might be anti American. etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 02:25 PM

It is hard for me to believe that the guy in the Q yellow T was not just trolling Klepper, but the phrase "Jesus Wept" has occured to me more than once. Don't watch this on a full stomach:

150,000 Percent Sure

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 03:36 PM

Whoa. Brainwashing is easy, apparently.

But anything that is negative isn't Trump's fault. That's kind of what we hear out here in the Hinterland. Living in a red state can be difficult when it comes to common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 04:27 PM

I underwent hypnosis trials in college. I was amazed.
Yes it is easy.
I figure if I got to be a good practioner of hypnosis 4 years later its got to be easy for nearly anyone. Susceptability and effectiveness follows your typical bell shaped curve.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 06:26 AM

gop cartoon murder of democrats

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 10:11 AM

Trump ‘throws sand’ in gears of Capitol attack inquiry amid legal setbacks

Ex-president wages a court battle to thwart House committee from obtaining White House records for inquiry into the Capitol assault

The list of significant legal setbacks is lengthy for the former president and real estate mogul who has long had a reputation for threatening to sue his foes.

Early this year, for example, Manhattan district attorney Cyrus Vance Jr won a lengthy legal fight to obtain Trump’s tax returns, and in July charged two Trump companies and the Trump Organization’s chief financial officer with a 15 year tax fraud scheme, which the companies and the CFO have denied in pleas.

On 4 November, a second grand jury was convened by Vance to hear more evidence about the financial practices of the Trump Organization and possibly bring more charges, according to the Washington Post.

Trump suffered another legal setback when a New York court ordered him to give a deposition in October that lasted more than four hours in an old lawsuit by men alleging they were attacked in 2015 by Trump security guards at a demonstration outside Trump Tower in Manhattan.

Meanwhile, in his latest high stakes court fight, Trump’s attorneys have launched a legal blitz invoking executive privilege to block the House select committee from obtaining hundreds of pages of documents from the National Archives the committee seeks as it investigates the 6 January Capitol riot and what role Trump played in it.

"A federal judge at a hearing on Trump’s legal challenges on 4 November voiced strong scepticism about his lawyers’ executive privilege claims to keep the committee from getting most of the records it wants, noting that President Joe Biden approved turning them over."

If he wasn't such a nasty S.O.B. his successor might have cut him some slack. Let's just hope this gets far enough before the mid-term elections to help bring a few of the old-fashioned simply conservative GOP candidates out of hiding.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 02:42 PM

Steve Bannon has arrested development evidenced by his 70's hair style and fashion statement. He was sent a supeona by AG Garland, who is more judge than prosecutor, but Steve immediately put it in the bottom of his bird cage.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 03:36 PM

Sorry Donuel but those outside your view of things do not understand these cryptic comments on a subject that may affect everyone in the world.

Is he going to get nailed or is he still a danger to everyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 04:13 PM

Sarcastic parody takes on current events like in the Onion amuse me but if you want straight up reporting about Steve I would look in your own backyard where Bannon is probably in communication with other nazi regiemes in Ukraine, Germany, Italy and other hotbeds of fascism.
Over here he had a seat at the Insurrection table at the Willard Hotel accross from the White House along with Rudy, Eastman and other coup planners. Is he a danger? I suppose he is as dangerous as we allow him to be. Thats why AG Garland should act quicker in my opinion. Nazis will never 'like' Democrats so we may as well risk martyr worship and put Steve in Jail for contempt of Congress.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 08:13 PM

There are no "Nazi regimes" in Ukraine, Germany or Italy. Ukraine is a democracy closely allied to the EU, operating under the rule of law. It is closely allied to the EU, belonging to the Single Market and the EEA. It has aspirations to join the EU, a wish broadly shared by a majority of its citizens, and is expected to apply for membership in the near future. Germany and Italy are both democracies in the European Union. I regard it as rather insulting for anyone to claim that these countries are run by Nazi regimes, and it appears to betray a certain degree of ignorance. I also find it odd that such an intemperate claim could be made by someone who lives in a country that is gun-crazy, can elect people like Trump, has extremely illiberal abortion laws in many states and which still strings up or electrocutes a good number of its citizens every year. We don't happen to get those things in Ukraine, Germany or Italy, last time I checked...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 08:55 PM

Prosecutor in Trump camp's effort to reverse Georgia result considering special grand jury

Gwen Keyes Fleming, former DeKalb County, Georgia district attorney, talks with Rachel Maddow about expectations that the district attorney in Fulton County, Georgia, Fani Willis, will use a special grand jury in the ongoing investigation of Donald Trump's efforts to push Georgia officials to overturn the state's 2020 election results.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 09:23 PM

Hungary and Belaruse have strong man fascist regiemes. I would love to have Bannon's communications with them and other large nazi movements.
Bannon bought an Italian monestary for a European base of operations.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 21 - 10:27 PM

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/23/529634908/germany-tries-to-root-out-neo-nazis-inside-the-ranks-of-its-military
When a member here posted that Hitler merely "hoodwinked" Germany, I suspect a nazi sympathizer. I am not surprised some Euro eyes are closed to the growing nationalism in Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 02:55 AM

You didn't say Hungary. You said Ukraine, Germany and Italy, none of which has a fascist REGIME. As for Belarus, it's no more "in my backyard" than it's in yours. Most countries probably contain people of fascistic persuasion, but such people don't constitute "regimes" unless they are running the whole country. Let's stick to the facts, eh (and stop digging...)?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 05:12 AM

Trump was ordered to hand over all 1-6 documents to the Congressional commitee and his claim of executive priviledge and overbroad investigation with no public benefit was rejected.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 10:44 AM

Read the news today of Belarus pushing back against the EU - via Poland's border, grinding refugees between the two of them. It would be your backyard but for Brexit - except proximity didn't change. It's a small world.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 11:27 AM

Well Belarus is a long way from the United Kingdom. It's a former part of the USSR (which was never in my backyard either) and has never been a member of the EU, so brexit doesn't enter into it. Geographical distance and backyardery are not quite the same thing, taking political allegiances and the method of governance into account as well as proximity. I'm sure you don't regard the countries on the north coast of South America as being in YOUR backyard (they mostly wouldn't like it either).

As for what's happening on the Belarus/Poland border, Lukashenko has given "tourist visas" to potential refugees from Syria and Iraq, positively inviting them in, enabling them to cross the country easily via Minsk to the Polish border. He's done this in retaliation against EU sanctions. Whatever you think of Poland's response, make no bones about who's responsible for this.

And you often tell me that I don't "get" the politics of YOUR backyard...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 03:53 PM

Steve, we evidently didn't read the same news this morning. Lukashenko is funneling all of those people back to the EU (as you said) - but this isn't like the US and South America stuff, this is like the US and Mexico or the US and Canada - the borders of a sovereign nation. Not sure if you consider the EU a sovereign nation or a loose affiliation, whatever, but you used to be a part of it - as is Poland - on opposite sides, yes, but still, a part of it. I'd think there's a little appreciation for the old political affiliation. Here's a map. Netherlands, Germany, and Poland are between you and Belarus. 1,300 miles. It's nearly 2,000 from the southern most point of Texas to the northernmost city in Colombia, in South Ameria.

West Accuses Belarus of Orchestrating Migrant Crisis at Polish Border

Poland has massed thousands of troops on its border with Belarus to keep out Middle Eastern migrants who have set up camp there, as Western officials accuse Belarus’s leader of intentionally trying to create a new migrant crisis in Europe.

The standoff along the razor-wire fence separating the two countries has intensified a long-simmering confrontation between Belarus, a repressive former Soviet republic, and the European Union, which includes Poland.

Western officials say that President Aleksandr G. Lukashenko of Belarus is allowing asylum seekers from the Middle East into his country by the thousands and then funneling them westward toward Poland and the E.U., and has escalated that strategy this week. They say he is retaliating against sanctions imposed after his disputed 2020 election victory.

The sharp increase in tensions has rattled European officials, with images of desperate migrants evoking the refugee crisis of 2015. The confrontation with Belarus, a close Russian ally, also raises new security concerns.

E.U. leaders are scrambling to strike a balance between protecting the bloc’s external borders and preventing a worsening humanitarian crisis among the migrants camped along the edge of a forest in freezing weather.

On Tuesday, Polish authorities said, at least 3,000 people who hoped to enter the European Union were gathered near the Kuznica border crossing, near the Belarusian city of Grodno. Hundreds could be seen camped just feet away from the border fence in video footage provided by both sides. In response to the growing numbers, Poland increased its forces in the area to more than 17,000 soldiers, border guards and police, Polish officials said.

The US has it's own awful way of dealing with migrants and refugees. At least the camps are a bit warmer, but that is no benefit. It's just that the EU camps and the advance of winter are in the news now. Trump broke a lot of things here, and it is taking Biden a long time to fix them; Trumps response to the pandemic is part of the reason it's taking so long.

I'm not sure where this was going, but I think it's time to shift back to discussing Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 06:04 PM

The border between Poland and Belarus is firm. The two states are not friendly. Poland is in the EU, Belarus is not and is run by a dictator. There are no agreements between the two regarding free movement between them. The camps you refer to are in Belarus, not the EU, so you are wrong about that. In addition, Lukashenko is not funnelling people "back" to the EU at all (and that is not what I said, by the way). The refugees were never EU residents. Yes, I'm all for getting back to Trump, but let's not get careless with facts. Do take care to choose news sources that are accurate.

What I would say is that there is a humanitarian crisis building, all the work of Lukashenko, but, as with all such crises, it's very difficult to stand on principle when the well-being of thousands of people is threatened. So at the moment I can't quite get my head round what Poland (or the EU) should be doing. What I can get my head round is the fact that Lukashenko will never do the right thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 21 - 05:35 AM

The Presidential records and communications of Trump on 1-6 is to be handed over this Friday to the 1-6 commitee. The judge ruled that a president is not a King and (the plaintif) Trump is not the president with executive powers.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 21 - 08:22 AM

Another injunction will delay records of 1-6 until Nov. 30

I just learned The Proud Boys use a Disney tune for their anthem.
They love Rittenhaus. https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/01/14/PMJS/26e0d3b3-1b9e-4813-b9bd-d530508dcee4-Rittenhouse2.JPG?width=660&height=500&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 21 - 05:17 PM

Bannon is indicted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 21 - 07:03 PM

Bannon is a parasite who thinks he is Kaisar Sosa. He has an anti Midas touch with a bullying force of will. He is not bound by loyalty. He moves from host to host like a virus be it Palin, Cruz and Trump. If he does go to jail he will have fantasies about Hitler getting a reduced sentence and writting his own Mein Kampf. He is not a competant ultimate villain like emporer Papatine but he will still cry betrayal in the end and will become a broken figure like Joe McCarthy/
At least thats what my crystal ball says about Steve. He is not a loyal mob gangster who serves time at the behest of his Godfather. Like Trump he only serves his own interests that are flawed and misguided.
Monday when he surrenders it will be his high sewer water mark, his largest flash in the pan, his 'Waterloo' that will flush him from history.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 21 - 09:33 AM

On the other hand a two year delay of multiple appeals is possible but not likely.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Nov 21 - 10:38 AM

Steve Bannon faces federal charges for contempt of Congress

"Bannon is not in custody right now. I'm told he's expected to self-surrender to authorities on Monday and to appear in federal court here in D.C. later that day. Obviously, this is just the start of this prosecution. But it's worth noting here that if Bannon were to be convicted, each count here carries a minimum of 30 days in jail and a maximum of one year."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 21 - 05:27 PM

:^/ alert The Fox channel has a fall line up catering to the Trump base;
Autopsy Wars, Dr. pimple sucker, Wheelchair theives, Tattoo bloopers, Ninja cockroachs, porn hoarders, Epic gun fails, Roadkill barbecue, Skunk people, Meth Boss, Porn Hoarders of Texas, Storage Trash.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 05:49 AM

One nation under one God is normal in the Middle East so former trump security advisor wants the same for the good ol USA, Texas Christians rejoice

We're gonna hafta burn the old Constitution, for God's sake. Amen

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 07:40 AM

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Establishing a national religion and banniing other religions is a populist, unconstitutionl, authoritarian idea. Bolstered by the banning of Trump speech from facebook and twitter, the right feels justified to ban Free Speech by traitors. Traitors are defined as anti Trump voices.

Go big or go home Herr Hitler er I mean General Flynn.
It seems we were already told fake news is not the real press.
As for assembling at Trump rallys, exceptions will be made.
We won't need to petition the government if the right IS the government.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 11:22 AM

Obstruction and Failure to Produce Documents - the charges against Steve Bannon, who turned himself into the FBI this morning.

There should be a hearing this afternoon to read the charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 21 - 08:03 AM

WHEN HYPNOTISTS GO BAD

"The Shrink Next Door' is a docu drama that is a TRUE story of a psychiatrist who took over the lives of vulnerable patients.
It stars Will Ferrel, Katherine Hawn and Paul Rudd. If you ever watch this TV series you may see a similarity to what Donald Trump did to America,

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 21 - 10:18 AM

I heard someone from the public radio show Marketplace interview DeJoy this morning. Until we can get him out the mail-in ballots are in danger. As is the whole postal system.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Nov 21 - 07:09 PM

I think of the Q Anon 'shaman'
as the guy in the Halloween costume,
except of course that January 6 was NOT Halloween.
His sentencing was today.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 21 - 08:33 PM

41 months. It's a start.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 21 - 12:00 PM

Texts Show Kimberly Guilfoyle Bragged About Raising Millions for Rally That Fueled Capitol Riot

Text messages reviewed by ProPublica represent the strongest indication yet that members of the Trump family inner circle were involved in financing and organizing the Jan. 6 “Save America” rally, which immediately preceded the Capitol riot.

Kimberly Guilfoyle, a top fundraiser for former President Donald Trump and the girlfriend of his son Donald Trump Jr., boasted to a GOP operative that she had raised $3 million for the rally that helped fuel the Jan. 6 Capitol riot.

In a series of text messages sent on Jan. 4 to Katrina Pierson, the White House liaison to the event, Guilfoyle detailed her fundraising efforts and supported a push to get far-right speakers on the stage alongside Trump for the rally, which sought to overturn the election of President Joe Biden.

Guilfoyle’s texts, reviewed by ProPublica, represent the strongest indication yet that members of the Trump family circle were directly involved in the financing and organization of the rally. The attack on the Capitol that followed it left five dead and scores injured.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 21 - 01:25 PM

That sounds like trouble in paradise for Don Jr.
"Kim who? ... Oh we dated a couple times but she's NOT family."

What next, Don Sr., hitting up Tiffany's Greek billionaire fiance' for a loan?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 08:57 AM

Please Don't squeeze the Q anon charmin.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 09:26 AM

Ya know I would gladly vote for a healthy 80 year old John McCain at this point, if only to steer the Republican party back to sanity.
Even if Liz Cheney were his running mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 09:43 AM

McCarthy took to the floor last night and spoke for 8 hours during the period when there wasn't a limit on remarks. I suspect some of that jabber will be used against him later.

Today they'll vote on the bill they tried to vote on last night before they were so rudely interrupted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 10:57 AM

Similar to the scene where Brian (Life of Brian) addressed a crowd, McCarthy asked "No one voted for Biden to be FDR" whereupon several Democrats exclaimed "i did".

Chronicling the events of the confederates and insurrectists are mainly Stilly River Sage (a clever double entendre) and Donuel. Stilly is the west coast Washingtonian while I am the east coast Washingtonian. She prefers straight reporting while I play the color man.

I have assumed a coming conflagration moving past the cold civil war tactics we now encounter. I also assume Stilly does not have such predilictions. However I am sure worry is another matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 12:58 PM

here is the missing -ion-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 03:10 PM

I think the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict will be interpreted as good news for the Trmpers.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 21 - 07:32 PM

Of course. In a land where we have never been able to pass an anti lynching law it is SOP to allow white vigilantes to shoot who they please at what was essentially a race riot.

As for kyle he was easily manipulated by white power thugs to flash WP hand signs while out on 'their' bail money.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 06:46 AM

One thing about cases such as this one is that we recipients of selective media information can never know all that is needed to know in order to properly judge the case. Ironically, there is more than a hint of lynch mentality in that last post. Accept the verdict of the jury and move on. The system might be flawed but it's the best we've got. Just shrug and get on with life. I'd much rather you made a bloody great big fuss about your stupid laws that allow all and sundry to tote guns around as if they're Billy The Kid.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 08:17 AM

The point that guns have evolved is a very important fact. We re still allowing guns to evolve. The ultimate evolution of the gun will be a gun that causes the victim to immediately see things from your point of view. Eventually the gun will be the ultimate peace keeper, meanwhile guns are still in a primtive dinosaur blood and gore phase.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 09:35 AM

The Rittenhouse verdict shows, to me, that the US, as a country, will take years or even decades to prove that it is worthy as calling itself part of civilised society.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 09:44 AM

Another white guy gets away with murder. He'll dine out on this the rest of his life—with the proviso that people who become famous this way don't, in my experience, lead long, productive lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 11:50 AM

Well the jury didn't agree with you. There's just the small chance that they knew a bit more detail and nuance than we did.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 12:41 PM

Stop right there. There was a bizarre judge in this case, who among other things, wouldn't let the prosecution refer to the men killed and injured as "victims." It was a really strange case, but a 17-year-old kid has been thoroughly vetted in the court of public opinion and found to have travelled across state lines gunning for a fight, he got it, and he should rot in jail. As the meme making the rounds today says:

"I jumped into the Polar Bear enclosure at the zoo, then had to kill all the polar bears in self-defense."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 01:06 PM

There is also a good chance that the jury were not objective and were strongly influenced by the opinions and guidance of the judge, and the conduct of the trial. I am sure I read, somewhere, there was only one black jury member who was referred to in the trial as 'the black'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 04:53 PM

"Stop right there."

Wow. Now I don't know exactly what was going through his mind. In this country, murder means that you killed someone with malicious intent. That he killed people is not in doubt. The malicious intent was challenged. The case was put and the jury failed to convict. So less of the "stop right there" if you don't mind. I'm expressing uncertainty, not saying he shouldn't have been convicted. You're expressing lynch-mob certainty ("rot in jail," etc.) in the face of a judge and jury who had far more evidence to hand then you have. You may be right. As with masks, I'm in awe of your certainty. As I age, I'm finding that I see things less and less in black and white. By the way, a wise prosecution service can see this kind of thing coming. There are various levels of manslaughter charges available, and it's possible to pass a guilty verdict but with the mitigation of diminished responsibility. An all-or-nothing murder charge levelled at a panicky teenager that could send him to his death is a downright risky strategy, and the risk on this occasion hasn't paid off. Blame your inept justice system.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 05:31 PM

I note that your president shares my view that we should accept the verdict of the jury. We can't pick and choose, can we? We can express disappointment loud and clear but undermining the justice system is not an option.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 21 - 06:28 PM

Tone deaf is tone deaf. I watched the entire televised trial on a channel without commercials. Even what one could see in 2 dimensions was shocking, like the judge brewing a cup of coffee and doodling on his lap top at the bench paying no attention to the prosecution's final argument which was the most brilliant of the trial. What is not said is still communcation. The judge was rapt when the defense delivered the final argument that had 4 exclamations of "Comon People" and " The state only has video out of focus hocus pocus ". (the HD version was witheld)
The prosecution chose its charges poorly to begin with.
I'm not surprised at the verdict, afterall even Zimmerman was cleared with a self defense plea.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Nov 21 - 06:55 AM

Here in the Land of Oz we have people protesting vaccine mandates holding a sign saying " Jab mandate vaccinations without exemptions are a violation of our 14th constitution amendment!"

posted on this facebook page, Sunday 21st Nov Australian time with a comment -
These two people were protesting in Mt Gambier, South Australia this week.

The 14th amendment is part of the Constitution of United States of America, made in 1868 after the US Civil War to guarantee citizenship and equal civil and legal rights to African Americans and the formerly enslaved.

How deluded do you have to be to think the US Constitution applies here? ...

sandra
I'm not on facebook so can't link directly to the post

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 21 - 09:54 AM

The last few bickering posts have been removed - let's leave this to the discussion of Trump, please.

Fueled by Trump-inspired grievance, attempts to terrorize public officials escalate
Through public records requests, several previously unreported incidents came to light — while Capitol Police officials say the agency expects to log more than 9,000 threats this year.

When Rep. Joe Neguse delivered his closing remarks in February at the impeachment trial of former President Donald Trump, he expressed concern about the direction of a nation that weeks earlier witnessed a homegrown attack in its capital.

“I fear, like many of you do, that the violence we saw on that terrible day may be just the beginning,” said Neguse, D-Colo., who as an impeachment manager had a nationally televised role in prosecuting Trump on a charge that he incited the mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

Neguse ended optimistically, offering a favorite quote from Martin Luther King Jr.: “I’ve decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear.”

The Senate acquitted Trump. A day later, Valentine’s Day, the propulsive threatening discourse that Neguse worried was taking root in American democracy landed on his doorstep.

A suspicious letter mailed to the congressman’s home was opened to reveal a picture of Neguse clipped from The New York Times. An unknown substance, suspected to be feces, marked an “X” over the photo, according to records kept by the police department in Lafayette, Colorado, and obtained by NBC News.

The disturbing incident, which has not been previously reported, was referred to the Capitol Police for investigation and is among the more than 9,000 threats the agency is expected to log this year. It’s also representative of the escalating security risks confronting public officials from the federal and state levels down to local school boards.

“I had one person call and say, ‘This is the gun I’m going to use. I’m going to put three bullets in the back of his head,’” Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said last month on MSNBC. “You find yourself feeling uncomfortable sitting next to an open window in your home. And that’s not something I ever thought I would have to think in this country.”

Quantifying exactly how dangerous things have become is a challenge, but even elections officials — a less prominent rung of public service that is nonetheless central to democracy — are reporting threats.

And officials with the Capitol Police, the agency responsible for protecting members of Congress, have said they expect the number of threats against members to surpass the 8,600 handled in 2020 and continue a significant surge during the Trump era. In 2017, the first year of Trump’s one term, only 3,900 threats were reported. (The department is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act, making specifics scarce.)

The rest of the article is at the link; on the bottom paywall click to read now without supporting the site.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 21 - 09:59 AM

Trump tells Navarro to 'protect executive privilege' in House COVID-19 probe

Former President Trump said Saturday in a statement that he is telling former aide Peter Navarro to “protect executive privilege” amid a House probe into the federal government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

“The Communist Democrats are engaging in yet another Witch Hunt, this time going after my Administration’s unprecedented and incredible coronavirus response, despite the fact that, sadly, more Americans have died this year from COVID than in all of 2020,” Trump said in a statement shared through his spokesperson, Liz Harrington.

“I’m telling Peter Navarro to protect executive privilege and not let these unhinged Democrats discredit our great accomplishments,” Trump added.

If you happen to see any of the messaging coming out of Trump's Florida home he is still calling himself "President Donald Trump" and has as much pomp and letterhead as he thinks he can get away with to try to look like he still has some presidential powers.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 21 - 10:06 AM

And here is possibly the most bizarre recent development of all - the suggestion that if the House is majority GOP after 2022 that they should "install Donald Trump as the Speaker of the House." Bearing in mind that the head of the Senate or the House is the chief strategy person for their party and runs the whole institution in a supposedly honorable and responsible way (one could argue the Newt Gingrich was one of the first really corrupt officials to turn that on its head, and McConnell is still there with his lizard-brain trying to defeat Democracy.)

The 'Donald Trump for speaker' idea won't die

Earlier this week in an interview with onetime Trump White House political guru Steve Bannon, Mark Meadows said aloud what lots of Trump-y types have been thinking for a while.

Meadows, who served as Trump's White House chief of staff, said that if Republicans regain the House majority in 2022, they should install the former President as speaker in January 2023.

"I would love to see the gavel go from (House Speaker) Nancy Pelosi to Donald Trump," Meadows told Bannon. "You talk about melting down -- people would go crazy."

Meadows may be the most prominent Trump ally to float the idea, but he isn't the first.

In June, the former President had this exchange with conservative radio talk-show host Wayne Allyn Root:

ROOT: "Why not, instead of just waiting for 2024, and I'm hoping you run in 2024, but why not run in 2022 for the United States Congress, a House seat in Florida, win big, lead us to a dramatic landslide victory, taking the House by 50 seats, and then you become the speaker of the House?"

TRUMP: "You know, it's very interesting. That's so interesting. And people have said, run for the Senate, OK, run for the Senate, but you know what? Your idea might be better. It's very interesting."

In a subsequent interview with Fox News, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy seemed to give the idea even more credence.

"You know, I have talked to President Trump many times," McCarthy told Fox's Brian Kilmeade. "He tells me he wants to be speaker, and I think he should be president."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 21 - 01:49 PM

The audacity of Trump includes his recent attempt to send his 'diplomat' to a foreign country for policy talks.
The country declined.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 21 - 05:22 PM

Calling a stroke penalty on oneself is a honorable act in golf as well.
The Republican party’s vilification of members of Congress who have criticized Donald Trump or supported bipartisan legislation is “ruining America”, New Hampshire’s governor, Chris Sununu, said on Sunday, adding another tacit voice to the small but growing internal opposition to the former president.
The Republican party has ruled that Senator Cheney is not a Republicn anymore and may in fact not even be a white supremist.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 21 - 08:23 PM

This is not low-level pandering material.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 Nov 21 - 12:32 AM

following Donuel's post of 21 Nov 21 - 01:49 PM

Trump ‘Shadow Diplomacy’? Deploys ‘Ambassador’ To Address Serbia-Kosovo Tensions

The Biden White House mocked Trump’s claim to have an ‘envoy ambassador’ making foreign visits for him

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 21 - 07:43 AM

The Trump Speaker idea is bizarre news to me. What State could he represent? Maybe being a Senator would be better. He could replace Manchin.
The world got used to 2 Popes so maybe 2 Presidents in the goverment only seems rational to some. What if Donald loses the Speaker choice?
I am more befuddled by these ideas than the convolutions of black holes.
Thus is the nature of history and rewriting history with misinformation and 'Patriot Purge' ideas that are clearly represented in the history of Rome. Holy Shit, I am becoming Senator Byrd!
Bottom line...The bizarre is as normal as quantum mechanics.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 21 - 09:02 AM

The bizarre is normal like quantum mechanics.
The facts are then corn holed by wanton fanatics.
Philosophers try to order our mind
but stark raving nuts is all that they find.
So lets all hand over our rational thought
to AI computers and crack pot robots.

donuel

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 21 - 11:46 AM

The new normal
like a guillotine
The new normal is growing so fast and furious I just can't keep up.
Like in WW II the new normal is created in courts and by bullets.
It ended in a new technological conflagration of incineration.
A pandemic has created new normals that I can't count.
63 dead per some mass shootings is beyond my scope.
Today we learned to never attend holiday parades.
A lame duck President inciting murder in DC.
Lies are faster than the speed of sound.
Keyboard Nazis defend a new liberty.
A freedom to never ever vaccinate.
They say Democrats eat babies.
Its not said, if or maybe.
Dehumanization is easy.
When facts are flimsy
and lies are louder
We're going down
faster each day
in such a way
you can't
believe
it.








pretty soon you will lose you head

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 21 - 01:37 PM

Mister Trouble never hangs around
When he hears this Mighty sound.

"Here I come to save the day"

That means that Rittenhaus is on his way.
Yes sir, when there is a wrong to right
Rittenhaus will join the fight.
On the sea or on the land,
He gets the situation well in hand.

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/mightymouselyrics.html

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 21 - 06:28 PM

Roger Stone and Alex Jones are now subpeoned by the 1-6 commitee.

If they also refuse to appear like Bannon, will they share a cell?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 21 - 08:04 AM

3 Republican congressmen have offered Kyle Rittenhaus a staff position.
Best of all is Trump's endorsement for Kyle to be President of the NRA.
This has dissapointed the Proud Boys who hoped to appoint Kyle as their Grand Tyranysaurus in charge of BLM demonstration security. ":^/
A rash of Soutern lawfirms are now advertising "Get away with murder- ask us how". New standards for self defense are being developed as we speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 21 - 01:52 PM

Verdicts against the nazi demonstrators in Charlotsville that ended in murder include a 25 million dollar award to victims.

The Aubry murder resulted in all 3 white men guilty of felony murder.

Only 34 members of proud boy or oath keepers are under federal arrest for the 1-6 crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Nov 21 - 07:07 AM

There is no going into the past and killing Hitler. There is no warning from the past or present that would kill Trump revenge so I resign my watch hoping the actions of good people sway the future toward peace.
Suspect anyone who has motives to downplay the importance of Trump fascism. Condemn the actual Trump advocate. Silence or hiding only works for the few in a land of malious landmine ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Nov 21 - 07:32 PM

The CIA has a cool website with much of interest both information and historically. In the latter category is some recent writing on what it was like to brief the former occupant
.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Dec 21 - 09:58 AM

Vanity Fair has an ad that runs in my Instagram feed that suggests Ivanka Trump will be the next one to be charged in this whole Trump Crimes being prosecuted (in particular, she got in early in the 2017 inauguration committee, where millions of dollars were siphoned off to various individuals). That ad has been running for ages and still hasn't proven to be what is happening, so I guess I didn't miss anything by not subscribing to another online journal. And Rachel Maddow will talk about it if it happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Dec 21 - 06:38 PM

Fresh Air's Terry Gross is interviewing Barton Gellman today:

from The Atlantic: Trump's Next Coup has Already Begun

by Barton Gellman a Pultzer Prize winning journalist.

I guess the grimmest understanding of this article is that Trump will run in 2024 and Republicans are working legislative assemblies and State governents as well as officials who are in the ratification lineup of the next election. As well as electors.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Dec 21 - 08:21 PM

For awhile I have reminded folks that the Putin path to success is to control those who count the votes and not the voters. Sledgehammers are being replaced by jack hammers that are cutting the base of pillars that hold up Democracy and the meaning of elections. Meanwhile the Democrats are studying marketing 101 while the Republicans are getting their PHD.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Dec 21 - 03:44 PM

I pulled up Google News and see that Trump is clouding "Pence's effort to lay groundwork for 2024 presidential bid." That's fine - neither of them belongs in high office.

In another thread, Devin Nunes is not going to run again (Yes!) for Congress next year, instead choosing to run the new Trump media company (already under investigation because of huge donations from Saudi sources).

In many ways, Nunes is embracing the role his detractors have long accused him of playing, as Trump’s ultimate yes man. Early in the Trump presidency, leading Democrats fumed that he was walking away from his grave responsibilities as chair of the House intelligence committee to be Trump’s “stooge” and “fixer”. Now, though, he is walking away from Congress to serve Trump, without pretending that anything else is at stake.

Further down in the same article: "Some of that divisiveness, and the chaos that often erupts in its wake, is likely to greet him as he starts his new job. Two financial regulatory agencies are already investigating a $1.25bn business deal to take the Trump Media & Technology Group public."

The news that is most likely to sink Trump is that Capitol attack panel obtains PowerPoint that set out plan for Trump to stage coup
(Presentation turned over by Mark Meadows made several recommendations for Trump to pursue to retain presidency) This one is more than thinking out loud. This one, even though it's pixels, is in print.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 21 - 06:58 AM

A giant screen powerpoint presentation is new criminal evidence!?

I remember the days of microfilm being used by enemies of the state.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Dec 21 - 06:42 AM

Trump's chief of staff Mark Meadows is trying to shovel out his barn but he is no Hercules. His book 'Chief of the chief' went on sale to the consternation of Trump and has caused Mark to now call his own book to be fake news. Now it looks like he will go to jail for not showing up in contempt of Congress. Courts have ruled against his claims of executive priviledge. Is he the first rat to be trapped on the sinking ship of insurrection?

I am hopeful my side bet on a failure of democracy will be lost.
Too many failures of the coup and an honorable judiciary appear to be the saving grace.

Some say Mark Meadows is the John Dean of the former president. More bad news for Donald is that his tax returns can finally be scrutinized by the 1-6 commitee and his accountant is testifying against him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Dec 21 - 01:53 PM

The 'saving grace' of many in the Trump regime was that their self-regard inserted large streaks of incompetence into their multi-level abuses of power.

Unfortunately this is simply schooling for the next time. This is not only a partisan observation. The ways of subversion know no ideology.

Over fifteen years ago I was conversing with a man in Walmart based only on our waiting in the same line and wearing tags that indicated we were working for the same company. I made some non-partisan light comment on national politics and he went off, not so much on me, but on the horrible horrible leftists endangering the country and how they needed to go against the wall. I came away a little bit shaken with the amount of emotion that erupted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Dec 21 - 05:00 PM

You'd do yourself a favor to listen to the thoughts of historian Heather Cox Richardson. I catch her every couple of weeks, and this particular one was shared today by a friend (it's a few days old) and I sat through the hour amazed at what she knows but also at how clearly she tells the story of history.

The large reason lots of the social programs of today are under fire is because of the rich slave owners in the first 150 years of the country, trying to either hold onto their slaves and prosperous system of government, or keep freed slaves and other poor people from voting in a way that would mean they get services and help from the government (that the rich southern landowners would be taxed for).

Trump is, in her telling, a symptom of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Dec 21 - 07:32 PM

She reminded me that 90% of citizens have not taken poli sci 101 or know the true stench of States Rights. You did hear her take on the pendulum of politics? I erroneously take for granted that people know the American timeline and swinging ideology. My wife taught the history of American economics at Georgetown which makes for interesting conversation at home and dad was a Constitutional Law professor. What I consider dumbed down posts for social media maybe isn't if the audience has few fundamentals. or not.
Richardson is a good professor.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 21 - 06:48 AM

Your saving grace post is true and also if the competant are discovered - they are fired or thrown under the bus.

What is the Trump 2024 dream team?
VP Mike Lindell
Senate leader Steve King
Speaker Jim Jordan (sorry Margie) he's a man.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 21 - 08:34 AM

The subject of modern slavery probably can't be approached here. The third rail for the right is slavery while there is still a lust for slavery among the extremists. They want it but have to a go at it obliquely with nullification, institutionalized racism and private prison labor.
Slavery is still an existential global problem!
At any given time in 2016, an estimated 40.3 million people are in modern slavery, including 24.9 million in forced labour and 15.4 million in forced marriage.
It means there are 5.4 victims of modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the world.
1 in 4 victims of modern slavery are children.
Out of the 24.9 million people trapped in forced labour, 16 million people are exploited in the private sector such as domestic work, construction or agriculture; 4.8 million persons in forced sexual exploitation, and 4 million persons in forced labour imposed by state authorities.
Women and girls are disproportionately affected by forced labour, accounting for 99% of victims in the commercial sex industry, and 58% in other sectors.
Source: Global Estimates of Modern Slavery: Forced Labour and Forced Marriage , Geneva, September 2017.

With recent Supream Court decisions states rights could include a form of elective slavery just short of purchased ownership of people in states like Mississippi or Texas that could bypass the judiciary. This may not be as hypothetical as you think. Republican think tanks 'dare to dream'.
It does depend on how you define Democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 21 - 11:31 AM

Kanye is an ethinicutioner. (a traitor to his own people.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 21 - 05:15 PM

Its odd how folks are awed with election fraud.
Secret squads casting broad flaws from abroad?
The rest applaud and nod to the Fox facade of
lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Dec 21 - 07:16 PM

Slightly off topic, but over the years working in the oil 'bidness' even in Alaska i've run into both Southerners and Texans (I think Texans are in a class by themselves). And have heard the argument, usually as an aside because it's not worth having and out-and-out about the (US) Civil War across regional lines. But two cute responses have come up.

The first is from my favorite engineer who grew up hardscrabble in Pennsylvania and does not suffer fools. When he heard folks try to call it "The War Between The States" his response was simply:

"Losers don't get to name the War!"

And for those who argue that the War was about States' Rights not Slavery, there is the original argument from President Abraham Lincoln, which I've read but don't remember word for word:

"You can't argue for a level of freedom for yourself when that is exactly what you are denying to a whole class of people under your power."

As usual, Lincoln understood it fully and expressed it best. If the United States is ever before a divine tribunal, it will be the words and actions of Lincoln that will represent the best in us.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 21 - 08:44 AM

Three US Generals warn of a 2024 insurrection and a break in the chain of command between the Army and National Guard.
They do not think the riots are as dead as Disko;

Everybody, storm the Congress, let's riot
Don't fight the feeling, get out and fight it
fake, fake, fake, fake fake fake
Fake election, fake election

Oh, fake fake fake, fake fake fake
Fake mailed ballots, fake mailed ballots
Oh, you can, you can do it very well
You're the best in the world, I can tell

Oh, fake fake fake, fake fake fake
Fake election, fake election
Oh, stop the steal, stop the steal
Fake Joe Biden, fake Joe Biden, get real

fake fake fake, fake fake fake
Oh, Fake election, fake election
Shake the cops, shake the cops
Oh, fake fake fake, fake fake fake

Shake your booty, shake your booty
You can do it, do it
Shake shake, shake shake
Shake policemen, shake policemen

Shake shake, shake shake
Laws are all fake
Right down there, sister
Shake shake, (c'mon) shake shake

Come on do your duty
Oh, do your duty

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 21 - 09:12 AM

Our goverment is a three legged stool of Executive, Congress and Supream Court.

Supreme Court justices now serve on average longer on average than at any point in American history (28 years) and are gaming their retirements. Life tenure gives justices the perverse incentive to stay on the court until a President with whom they tend to agree sits in the Oval Office, meaning some hold onto their seats past their intellectual primes and wait until the “right” person is elected to the White House to retire.
Life tenure has turned nominations into a political circus. It’s no longer a priority to find the best candidate for the job who will serve with integrity and who has broad life experience. Instead, the party in charge scrambles to find the youngest, often most ideological nominee (who, at the same time, knows the right things to say at a confirmation hearing) in order to control the seat for decades to come.

The Constitution says Federal judges serve as long as they display good behavior. It doesn't say for they serve for a lifetime and what the hell is good behavior??

It was obvious bad behavior when The currwent Court started taaking away freedoms and established law. First they said the old voting law can be cancelled since there there is no more racism regarding elections. Now states are on ther own and do not have to obey Federal voting law of the past.

Second they are taking away Roe V Wade law. It has been slow but the Court used to only grant new or ammeded rights but now they are going backwards for thr first time. Thats bad behavior isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 21 - 07:33 AM

How do you solve a problem like Joe Manchin?
How do you catch a cloud and pin it down?
How do you find the words that means Joe Manchin?
A Big Pharma hero! A Fox News guest! A clown!

Many a thing you know you'd like to tell him
Many a thing he ought to understand
But how do you make him stay
And listen to all you say
His rock hard promise has turned into sand?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 21 - 09:10 AM

The Trump Tower memorial and Pyramid plans are on hold after Melania suggested the White House Rose Garden for his final resting place. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Dec 21 - 09:21 AM

Julius Ceasar did it, Hitler did it and Trump America wants to do it again. Whenever people make politics after a religion of a fevered furor they eventually end up with a knife in their gut. I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts, and beer.
As for religionists they trust that God is on their side. It is more important to know that we are on God's side.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Dec 21 - 09:28 AM

robo:
"My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure." --President Abraham Lincoln

"You have to do your own growing no matter how tall your grandfather was." --President Abraham Lincoln

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree, and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." --President Abraham Lincoln

"It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues." --President Abraham Lincoln

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses." --President Abraham Lincoln

"I don’t think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday." --President Abraham Lincoln

"Avoid popularity if you would have peace." --President Abraham Lincoln

"People are just about as happy as they make up their minds to be." --President Abraham Lincoln

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Dec 21 - 02:32 PM

Donuel:

The nice thing about having you around is you are a constant reminder that the methods and thoughts of Donald Trmp know no partisanship.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Dec 21 - 09:04 PM

There's a huge difference in motivation, Robo. Keep that in mind. And Don tends to understand more about the ideas he comes across and shares.

Trump is trying another lawsuit, but it's not going to fly. It's just taking so damned long to put him out of commission, with everyone in his camp dragging their feet and taking the Fifth.

I was curious about the status of his residency at Mar A Lago, so did a search.

Palm Beach town attorney John “Skip” Randolph determined that Trump qualifies as a "bona fide" employee of the Palm Beach resort and is therefore entitled to live there, according to the Sun Sentinel.

After reviewing a 1993 declaration of use agreement between Palm Beach, Trump and his Mar-a-Lago club, Randolph also determined that under the town’s zoning code, private clubs can provide living quarters for bona fide employees.

The definition of a club employee, as described in the zoning code, is:

“Employee means any person generally working onsite for the establishment and includes sole proprietors, partners, limited partners, corporate officers and the like.”

This from a Tampa Bay television channel's news website.

Do you suppose he really wants to leave his Florida golf resort to live in the White House again? If he were to win again he'd probably find a way to stay in Florida most of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 07:34 AM

Raw pagan authoritarian godfather dictatorial litigious conman and ignorant Trump knows no partisanship besides loyalty to himself.

I do have a movable POV that can take a picture from any angle like a 3D laser scanner at times. The rest of the time is just random brain droppings.

There is no cause that mob law is ever correct or just, but Donald is happiest when he can get the mob to do his bidding.

What I don't know is what robo is on about at times which is fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 08:14 AM

When something goes right its hardly reported
Its hardly reported and just goes away
When something goes wrong its talked about strong
Its talked about strong and seems here to stay

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 07:12 PM

What I'm on about is to say what I mean without using unnecessary words.

Those who want to fabricate meaning by a plethora of nouns and modifiers which might or might not amount to anything can be entertaining without being informative. They can also stimulate ideas much as a computer can be programmed to randomly combine words which the mind might not.

Donuel is a constant commentator whose comments may or may not be factual. In this he precisely imitates the Former Occupant. And as the Former Occupant did not perceive himself as evil, but as a hero, this might possibly be the self-image of our thread imp.

I am not concerned about what either Doneul or the other Don understands, because I'm not a mind reader. I have observed a willingness on the part of both those folks to spout BS and seek and or expect approval for same.

I learned a long time ago that the enemy of my enemy ain't my friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 08:18 PM

I warn that I am not a linear person.
Humor is truth but not always factual, Commentator is factually biased and poetry has an artistic license of exaggeration
or being understated. After countless moons its too bad I can't call you a friend
but happy hollowdays all the same.
I think your theory is lame.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 08:40 PM

Spot on, robo. I love you, baby (a seasonal quote from my favourite Christmas song...). I'll say no more as ganging up, oh so easy, is not my thing...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Dec 21 - 10:01 PM

Fake shell corporations that traded on the stock market joins Trump Media company. Trump now has 300 million from donations in the media company that has no employees except Kevin Nunes.

In 2017, the SEC suspended trading in Atlas Technology International, a company that had gone public in 2014 as an in-home bakery called Sweets & Treats but which said it transferred to new owners two years later, changing its name to Atlas and shifting to touch-screen devices. The business was allegedly part of a “fraudulent scheme” to manipulate the markets by a California businessman named Ahmad Haris Tajyar, according to an SEC complaint, which this year charged Tajyar with securities law violations.

Operating four online brokerage accounts in different names, Tajyar allegedly bought and sold Atlas shares with himself to create the illusion of an actively traded business, the SEC said in its August 2021 complaint against Tajyar. He also allegedly staged an earnings call with a friend posing as a Wall Street analyst asking questions about the business and allegedly paid a professional investment analyst to write research on the company, the SEC complaint said.

In its regulatory filings, Atlas listed Arc Capital as a creditor that had provided Atlas with loans of more than $80,000. But in a 2017 declaration by an SEC staff member, the agency said Tajyar and the principals at Arc Capital may have been “undisclosed control persons” for Atlas. The logo for Atlas appears in one of Arc’s promotional brochures on a list of its “public listing” clients.

Two of the former Arc employees said Arc had worked behind the scenes as an adviser of Atlas, providing marketing materials and financial models. One of the former employees said he worked on the deal but was taken off by his managers when he started asking questions about why its office address pointed to an L.A. parking garage and why he couldn’t meet with any of its executives in person.

This year, a judge permanently enjoined Tajyar from selling or promoting stocks as a result of his role in Atlas. Tajyar accepted the judgment without admitting or denying the allegations. He did not respond to requests seeking comment.

Arc was not named in the SEC’s complaint, and it’s unclear whether the SEC is still investigating the firm for its alleged role in the Atlas scheme.

Trump deal rides SPAC boom
The Trump deal is part of a recent boom in SPACs, which are seen as an easier way for some businesses to go public without the same expense and scrutiny of a traditional IPO.

In these deals, a SPAC, also known as a “blank check” firm, holds a public offering to raise money from institutional investors. When the SPAC’s management team identifies a private company to merge with, the SPAC’s investors are given the option of approving the deal and receiving equity in the newly public company — or taking their money back and walking away.

According to data published by New York law firm White & Case, 181 companies went public via a SPAC merger in the first nine months of 2021 — up from 93 in all of 2020 and 26 in 2019.

Trump’s new social media SPAC is soaring. Also, what is a SPAC?

Arc Capital and an affiliated firm, Arc Group, have attempted to capitalize on this investment wave, becoming an adviser to at least 15 blank check companies in recent years, according to a review of regulatory filings. On several SPAC deals, including Digital World Acquisition, Arc has served as the sponsor, which is usually the firm that puts up the initial capital to hire lawyers, brokers and a management team in exchange for getting a sizable portion of the company that ultimately goes public.

Not all of the deals work out. Yunhong International, a blank check company Arc once described as a “successful SPAC listing” in a promotional brochure on its website, said in a filing last month that it would dissolve and return money to investors because it failed to meet its deadline of finding a start-up to acquire within a set time period. This type of requirement is unique to SPAC deals and probably will cause many deals to dissolve in the coming years, financial industry experts said.

Yunhong and Digital World, the blank check firm planning to buy Trump Media, are both led by a CEO named Patrick Orlando, a former investment banker based in Miami. He did not respond to requests for comment.

Many of the same executives, hedge funds and bankers appear repeatedly on Arc’s SPAC deals. Earlier this year, one of the investors in Yunhong claimed in a lawsuit that Kingswood, an investment bank that has been the underwriter for several Arc SPAC deals, is partly owned by Cinta. The investor claimed this was an undisclosed conflict of interest, since Kingswood was supposed to be acting impartially when it brokered deals with outside investors.

Lawyers for Benchmark, the parent company of Kingswood, said in a court filing that the investor “failed to substantiate” the claim that Cinta was an owner of Kingswood. Representatives for Kingswood and the Yunhong investor did not respond to requests for comment.

In June, Kingswood changed its name EF Hutton, taking the moniker of a famed, century-old investment bank. In a news release, Kingwsood said it had secured the rights to the trademark and consulted with the grandson of one of EF Hutton’s original founders.

Kingswood or EF Hutton are listed as the underwriter on all 15 of the SPAC companies where Arc is listed as an adviser. EF Hutton is the “exclusive placement agent and capital markets adviser” to the Trump SPAC, filings show. Digital World said in a filing that EF Hutton would receive a $25 million commission for pitching the deal to investors.

The bank helped prepare the slide presentation Digital World and Trump Media submitted to regulators as part of its proposal. The slides indicate that Trump Media expects to generate billions of dollars in revenue by competing in a number of different industries — social media, streaming, podcasting — but it has not announced any fully-formed products or services. They also include the first name and last initial of 30 possible staffers, along with the logos of 33 of their employers. But they provide no further information, making it difficult to identify the people or their experience.

Last week, Trump Media also announced it would partner with Rumble, a YouTube rival popular with conservatives, to deliver streaming content to its yet-to-launch social media platform.

Rep. Devin Nunes to leave Congress to become Trump media company CEO

It’s not uncommon for SPAC merger candidates to make bold promises light on details; they are often young companies with little or no revenue. Companies going public through a SPAC have more latitude to paint a rosy picture of their prospects compared with traditional IPO companies, which must have all of their financial statements and projections vetted by auditors and reviewed by regulators, securities lawyers said.

Still, the lack of specifics in the Trump slide presentation was “hilarious, even compared with other SPACs,” said Michael Ohlrogge, an assistant law professor at New York University who has researched SPAC transactions.

“So far, it’s vaporware,” said James Angel, a professor of finance at Georgetown University. The true test will come after the merger, when shareholders will expect Trump to use the money he has raised to build a formidable business, he said.

“Now that our ex-president has a billion-dollar war chest to play with,” Angel said, “it remains to be seen if he can actually build a successful media franchise.”


This is dry reporting. I prefer my to the point POV.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Dec 21 - 03:23 PM

I would say "I rest my case." but why pile on a pylon?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Dec 21 - 06:48 PM

KAOS secret agent robomatic was the frequent nemisis to Max and agent 99 on Get Smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Dec 21 - 08:38 AM

Trump reminds many of Valdemort but robo's beloved gang leader reminds me of an immature Draco Malthoy. I don't expect either pays for wapo so be thankful for entry without a paywall.

When Trump saw the Producers written and directed by Mel Brooks and learned a flop can earn more money than a hit, his future was made.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Dec 21 - 01:14 PM

Don'l: Zees ees KAOS! Vee Don't do nozzing but eastern block pawaphwaziss here!!

Robo - who dated 99 before she settled down with 86.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Dec 21 - 05:56 PM

Barbara Feldman is very talented and beautiful.
Each of us have a different camera; mine has a wide angle lense, robo's camera is variable focus and Steve has a swallowable camera that traces the journey of all that he cooks and eats as well as a phone camera that only takes UK political pictures.

Dr. OZ weight Loss Pill snake oil salesman is running for Pennsylvania's Senator. He is a New Jersey Trump supporter.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Dec 21 - 12:19 AM

Jan-6-panel-urges-supreme-court-to-deny-trump-bid-to-shield-records

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 21 - 12:20 AM

Back to 86: "If only he had used his reflections for good!"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 21 - 02:28 PM

I'm pretty sure Trump is positioning himself for a Presidential run. (Thank you, Mitch Macconnell for making that possible). And by positioning I mean posturing.

He has come out as strongly favoring the vaccine. And emphasizing his vital part in Operation Warp Drive (He was breathing at the same time as world medical infrastructure was developing the vaccines).

This drew a rise out of Alex Jones. I will not go further with Jones as he is a danger to OPM (Other Peoples' Minds). But he declared that Trump might actually be 'evil'.

I am thinking of working on a Venn Diagram of Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, and Donald Trmp scanned over the qualities 'CRAZY' 'EVIL' 'POLITICAL' but that is better left to others. I was in a conversation with a definitely rational friend who tends to be more conservative than me and who classified Trmp as EVIL which even I am hesitant to do. I don't find BS and greed to be evil in themselves. Maybe I need to rethink that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Dec 21 - 04:33 PM

The quote is "Magic mirror on the wall..."

The story goes that the wicked witch's gardener overheard her appealing to the mirror. After she'd left the room he sneaked in and intoned:

"Mirror mirror on the door
Make my penis touch the floor..."


It worked: his legs dropped off...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 21 - 06:23 PM

"Here endeth the lesson...."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 22 - 03:17 PM

We keep hearing about this new Trump media company that (in one version) is going to try to clobber all of the traditional media outlets (television and print magazines with a web presence). He still can't broadcast or publish in most of those places, and he wants to supplant the traditional news sources with his own. How he plans to carry off this fantastical plan is anyone's guess. I just went looking for any projections of the launch date (to hear some folks talk it is already working, but not that I'm aware of) but find it has been missed:

Trump SPAC social media company appears to miss its first product deadline was published exactly one month ago by CNBC.

Wikipedia entries are edited by interested parties so I imagine this contains some of the party line, so to speak. They say the company launched in February 2021, but it's still only on paper as far as I can tell. News back in early December was that Devon Nunes would resign from the House of Representatives as of today to lead the group, but I don't see news of that happening yet. A good place to start reading about this is at the Washington Post, they've been all over the story with news and opinion pieces.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 22 - 12:11 PM

Marjorie Taylor Greene, the congressperson from Georgia who has no committees because she was stripped of them after past misbehavior, has finally lost her personal Twitter account. NPR story.

On Saturday, Greene tweeted a screed about the public health measures imposed during the pandemic, criticizing many of the efforts health officials say were critical in preventing more deaths from the virus and slowing its spread in the U.S.

The Georgia Republican's official government Twitter account is still active, the company confirmed.

Greene, in a statement following her Twitter suspension, said Twitter was an "enemy to America and can't handle the truth."

"That's fine, I'll show America we don't need them and it's time to defeat our enemies," she said.

Her pronouns are problematic in that last statement. It sounds like she is saying that she doesn't need America. That sounds about right for this woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and who it Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jan 22 - 12:12 PM

It is obvious who is unaware of the peril this country is in. They are MIA. Regarding a dictator taking over the US it is very possible with the support of the entire Republican party.
But not so fast... It is more probable for racist reasons than for nazi ideology.

While the reps and dems are still playing political wind testing, actual response to voting restrictions could have been done already. Naturally the catter bigot willing to file a false police report for personal political reasons wants secrecy unlike everyday trolls like the OCD man.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 22 - 11:47 AM

The undecided voter is extinct. They are replaced by the secret bigot.
Once Trup can control elections and arrest any opponent at will like Putin, it could take a generation for the Republic to re-emerge if ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 22 - 12:02 PM

Greene got her ass kicked off of Facebook also. But this is window dressing, compared to the groups that need to be eliminated from the site. FB knows who they are, but their eyeballs bring in dollars.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 08:26 AM

Minority rule by technicality is what Republican think tanks are good at. Perhaps they are studying a take over of our nuclear missiles, Courts, Governors and armed forces by 'technicality'.
Wait a minute, they already tried that on Jan. 6

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 12:17 PM

The following programme was just broadcast on BBC Radio 4.

The Media Show


"Did the storming of the Capitol damage US media?

A year on from the storming of the US Capitol and the media is still coming to terms with what happened. Some US news outlets have been accused of "obsessing over" the scenes on 6 January 2021. Others have condemned parts of the media for "normalising" the violence. So how can these divisions be healed? And in the week that several political figures were banned from Twitter, what role do the tech giants now play in our democracy?

Guests: David Folkenflik, Media Correspondent at NPR; Robert Costa, Political Reporter at the Washington Post and co-author of Peril; Susan Ferrechio, Chief Congressional Correspondent at the Washington Examiner; Chris Stokel-Walker, tech journalist; Zing Tsjeng, Editor-in-Chief at Vice UK."

The tech giants certainly do have a very powerful role with their ability to ban elected officials from their platforms and their control of how media outlets are able to use the tech platforms to spread their news and views.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 22 - 04:03 PM

There is a thin line, no, a knife's edge between fearing the violence to the point of preparing to do counter violence and ignoring accountability of insurrectionists. Jefferson said he would prefer a country with journalists and no government over a government with no press.
Media has suffered along with the entire country.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jan 22 - 06:48 PM

You yanks are sleepwalking into impending disaster. You've nailed nothing on Trump, and his following is uneroded. Biden is an old man. He sounds and looks like an old man. He'd be 86 by the end of a second term. Bloody wake up, yanks. The world depends on you not re-electing Trump. From this end, you look paralysed and your politics looks infantile. Prove us wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jan 22 - 10:36 PM

Stuff it for a while, Shaw. You're not proving anything and you're clearly not reading the in-depth stories about this process. You can worry about Boris.

This is a bottom-up operation, the low-level folks are rolling on each other and on the planners. Every t must be crossed and i must be dotted to get this prosecution to go forward.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 07:13 AM

The New Yorker has run its article today "Are we headed for a Civil War"

I have warned all for over 15 years right here that civil war is possible along with bio war and other fates. Shaw does say I am obcessed with Trump and I'm barking at the moon
I say he is the one obcessed with self.
The New Yorker is a little late in my book.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 07:37 AM

I am not the somnambulist. Given the choice of being ruled by the Violence Party or the Peace Party I still have faith the American people will wake up and realize the con. During the W Bush administration people woke up when Wall St was allowed to take their homes. Racism was the issue many celebrated in Trump. They may wake up again. The LIE is what people want to hear. The awful Truth is a bitter Pill to swallow.
Republicans now deny the insuurection ever happemed - it was the FBI or Antifascists. They know silently that if they don't hang together they could hang seperately, as Ben Franklin said.

The solution to a bad leader is a good leader.
Lincoln did not deny Gettysburg happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 08:15 AM

Speaking of egregious you feel superior to Americans in the same way some whites here feel toward blacks imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 09:02 AM

I'll try this bit again, on its own. It's the editorial from Wednesday's Guardian and it represents one view of aspects of US politics from this side of the ocean.

The threat to American democracy may be greater today than when the insurrectionist mob swept into the US Capitol one year ago, attempting to prevent the peaceful transfer of power following a free and fair election. Joe Biden is ensconced in the White House and with the passage of time, the shock of their lethal assault has faded. But if the danger appears less immediate, addressing it is no less urgent.

We know more than we did a year ago about the full violence and menace of the riot, and about what preceded it – including the PowerPoint presentation turned over by Donald Trump’s chief of staff Mark Meadows, detailing ways to stage a coup. Rioters have been jailed, but so far no case has been brought against those who encouraged and incited them. Mr Trump himself has resurged, with a cult-like grip upon his party. He and his allies have longer to plan for this year’s midterms and 2024. State legislatures are constructing an election-stealing machine. In short: 6 January was not an end, but a beginning.

Listen to the warnings from America’s political scientists. One says that the US is “closer to civil war than any of us would like to believe”. Another warns that the insurrectionists of 6 January are not part of a fringe: he sees a new mass political movement with violence at its core. Others foresee a slide to Hungarian-style competitive authoritarianism in which the trappings of elections remain, but so rigged that Democrats cannot win.

Faced with an electorate that has rejected them, the Republicans have already entrenched their advantage in the electoral college, Senate and supreme court. Yet it is Republicans who claim that the system is cheating them. A vast swathe of the population is now detached from both political reality and political ideals – believing the 2020 election stolen, and believing that force is an acceptable response. “Alternative facts” have become mainstream belief: according to a recent poll, 68% of Americans think there is no evidence of widespread electoral fraud in 2020 – but 62% of Republicans disagree. While 60% of Americans think Mr Trump bears either a “great deal” or a “good amount” of responsibility for the storming of the Capitol, 72% of Republicans say he bears “just some” or “none at all”. Another survey found that 9% of Americans believed that “use of force is justified to restore Donald J Trump to the presidency”.

It is hard to know where one might begin to tackle the sprawling rightwing disinformation ecosystem. The aspiration to a policy response to the political chasm – the Build Back Better Act – has been killed by Republican opposition, with the aid of conservative Democrat Joe Manchin. He and fellow Democratic senator Kyrsten Sinema will also tank the fresh push on voting rights if they remain opposed to amending the filibuster.

Meanwhile, Republicans who attempted to rein Mr Trump in on 6 January, or publicly criticised him afterwards, have long since fallen back into line. In 12 short months they have rewritten history. Their hostility to the select committee investigation, rushing to report before November’s midterms lest it be closed down afterwards, is another attempt to silence the truth. Last year’s tidal wave of voting restrictions at state level continues, and election sabotage is gaining ground, with Republicans giving legislatures control over vote counts and replacing nonpartisan officials with Trumpists. Against these are ranged the steady, committed efforts of activists, politicians and ordinary voters to defend their rights and protect their democratic institutions.

More political violence is likely in future, not least because the GOP elite have helped to legitimise it. Senior Republicans have not merely made their peace with Mr Trump and his tactics, but embraced them. Next time, such efforts might gain support from within the services. Yet the deeper threat may be that force will not be required. The dismantling of American democracy could be bloodless: quieter, more sophisticated, more cynical – and nonetheless devastating for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 10:51 AM

Similar to today half the country thought making war on Fort Sumpter was a great idea and the majority half thought it was horrific.
A bloodless coup of making all vote counting a republican process is at odds with your average Joe Bully making death threats and rioting at school boards and State Capitols. During the Obama years many new facist militias and Klans were formed. Their favorite members are Tim McViegh like military veterans. Releasing the mob is like releasing the Kraken, it will go out of control. It will be defeated at the cost of more violence than first anticipated. That is, if the future rhymes with history.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 12:20 PM

I don't know why but the military branch of choice for extremists has been the airforce. Better than army demolition experts I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 09:31 PM

Look at this thread.
Count the posts by Donuel, and by Steve, and notice how many are off-topic.

Donuel provokes you, Steve, and you never fail to react. One wonders what would happen if this cycle were broken

Of course, I don't think the thread has much purpose other than sniping.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 07:12 AM

Anyway, back to the fray. Increasing numbers of Republican politicians are buying into the stolen-election lie. Republican states are rewriting voting laws in order to make it difficult for minorities and the poor to vote. Biden's approval rating is rock-bottom, lower than any president at this stage bar Trump. He talks and looks like an old man, and there's no obvious Democrat successor in sight. He was badly damaged by the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan (even though it was largely not his fault). So far, no step has been successfully taken which would disqualify Trump from standing in 2024, and, if he's still around then, I can't see any alternative Republican standing, unless we want to rely on Ms Cheney. Wow.   The midterms are coming later this year, and, bar a miraculous turnaround, they will leave Biden a lame-duck president. A lame duck that might well have to take on Trump next time around

That's how it looks from over here. Call me Mr Simplistic and tell me that I don't "get" US politics (but don't tell me to keep my nose out, not because I'm clamouring for my free speech but because what happens in 2024 is going to affect the UK and the rest of the planet as much as it affects the US). We have a massive problem in this country also. Trump back in power will also empower the illiberal right-wing here. Between them, Trump and Johnson are more than capable of unravelling western democracy, starting in 2024. That's everybody's business.

A good read on the Trump threat is in the Guardian: The Trump menace is darker than ever - and he's snapping at Biden's heels by Jonathan Freedland.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 08:39 AM

The high court looks like they will now be eliminating the 50 year old OSHHA law that protects the public and will deny Biden's health mandate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 05:58 AM

It is like saying "yes Karl Rove and Vice President Cheney & daughter are correct" BUT Steve is right, a fascist undemocratic USA is a threat to allies. Steve is not the only one late to the party, there are perhaps 70 million Americans who know not who Trump is.

For me this calamity started twelve to twenty years ago and others would say since 1865.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 11:58 AM

Another view from this side of the water from The Observer (the Sunday version of The Guardian) entitled The Observer view on Joe Biden’s Capitol Hill anniversary speech

The piece praises Biden for finally taking off the gloves but it calls for every sinew to be stretched to nail Trump legally in order to stop him from standing in 2024. It's a lengthy read, but it ends:

“The legal path to investigate the leaders of the coup attempt is clear. The criminal code prohibits inciting an insurrection or ‘giving aid or comfort’ to those who do, as well as conspiracy to forcibly ‘prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any law’,” veteran Harvard constitutional law expert Laurence Tribe wrote recently. It’s a widely held opinion.

The many documented actions of Trump and his circle in attempting to overturn the 2020 vote provide numerous grounds for criminal investigation and prosecution. Why is Merrick Garland, the attorney general, still dragging his feet? Biden can righteously rage. But the best antidote to toxic Trump’s dangerously lawless spree, and fears of civil war, is the law itself. Take him down – before it’s too late.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 03:02 PM

If not a treaty how about an Armistice?- or is silence consent.

answer to Observer.
If removal from ever holding office again can be done without proving a crime punishable by incarceration it would be preferable and avoid any martyrdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 04:26 PM

I read the American news every day with a sinking heart; Canada is a lot closer to the USA than any other nation except Mexico, which already suffers severely from the proximity.

I can't be the only up-to-now fairly good person who heartily wishes that Mr Trump would just wake up dead one day soon. There's never a major cardiovascular accident around when you need one.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 04:37 PM

You're not alone. It's been a year, and those who oppose Trumpism don't seem to have got very far. Yet he has.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 06:06 AM

The thin majority of Republican voters 55% would prefer a candidate other than Trump. There is no shortage of Trump wannabes.
Betting on a natural death without conspiracy theory is less likely than an inside straight.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 08:35 AM

The United States has only approached a democracy since 1965. Women could vote but people who were not white faced barriers to voting by Jim Crow laws. The Conservative party was founded on the premise of keeping the vote white. William F Buckly proposed that the Consevative party was not biased enough against minority voting.
While fascism is not conservatism it is important to know the reasons for American authoritarianism.
LBJ brought voting rights to law against steep odds. Its an amazing story. He could not have done it without a JFK. TRUMP COULD NOT BE PRESIDENT WITHOUT AN Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 02:35 PM

Charmion, many of us have that thought daily, while not saying it out loud or committing pen to paper. It's a not wanting to be jinxed thing, one of those sedition thoughts one keeps in mind only, in case someone in the future decides to act. Senator Joseph McCarthy's ghost is among us still.

Here is a piece of nonsense that, since it isn't a COVID cure, does belong in the Trump bullshit camp. This kind of fighting against common sense comes straight from that horse's ass's mouth. (The Daily Beast is no longer considered a reputable news source, but it's the kind of place that this guy will talk to.)

Anti-COVID-19 “Vaccine Police” leader Christopher Key has a new quarter-baked conspiracy theory for his anti-vax followers to use to cure themselves of COVID-19: Drink their own urine. “The antidote that we have seen now, and we have tons and tons of research, is urine therapy. OK, and I know to a lot of you this sounds crazy, but guys, God’s given us everything we need,” Key said in a video posted over the weekend on his Telegram account after being released from jail over a trespassing charge. “This has been around for centuries,” he added. “When I tell you this, please take it with a grain of salt,” the anti-vaccine advocate warned while saying people might now think he is “cray cray.” “Now drink urine!” he continued. “This vaccine is the worst bioweapon I have ever seen,” he concluded. “I drink my own urine!” Reached for comment by The Daily Beast on Sunday night, Key doubled down on what he calls “urine therapy” and railed against “foolish” people who took the COVID-19 vaccine, which is safe and effective.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 03:31 PM

My favorite nonsensical cure for not dying of Covid is blindfolded driving.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 09:19 PM

Arizona, Michigan and Wisconson all sent forged documents to Congress and archives saying Trump won in 2020. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/gop-official-dodges-questions-after-she-is-accused-of-sending-forged-certificate-claiming-trump-won-b1990348.html

The story is breaking at Politico and is not at this time on the web.

---

Link fixed. Be careful to grab the entire long URL when posting these links. I've fixed broken links lately from several Mudcatters. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 09:42 PM

The Republicans that signed, certified and notarized the exact forgeries can not be held accountable for the crime because they were politicians that can't be sued for their actions.
Wisconsin is the only state that is still weighing prosecution.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 22 - 10:12 AM

No wonder Donnie can't believe he lost. He got ~ 40 Republicans to forge electoral college results. There was election fraud by golly.


https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/after-2020-trump-backers-forged-election-docs-three-states-n1287287

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jan 22 - 12:00 PM

Surprising it took a full year for this to come around, but maybe Melania's allowance has been reduced lately. Selling Melania Trump, One NFT at a Time
A year after leaving the White House, the former first lady tests the water for her brand.

Non-fungible tokens sound perfect for the Trump family to start selling. What do you want to bet they're harder to trace or tax? From Wikipedia: NFTs have drawn criticism with respect to the energy cost and carbon footprint associated with validating blockchain transactions as well as their frequent use in art scams. Further criticisms challenge the usefulness of establishing proof of ownership in an often extralegal unregulated market.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Jan 22 - 12:08 PM

It's the grift that keeps on grifting.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jan 22 - 12:11 PM

The Times offered a number of related articles adjacent to the one above. Like A Farewell to the Trump Aesthetic
Four years of hard-core branding, soap opera chic and designer trolling are coming to an end. What have we learned? A look back in gilt.

Clever - gilt, not guilt. :)

"The political costume department of our collective imagination will never be the same."

His willingness to make himself into an orange-tinted, vanilla-custard-combover meme invited mockery — until some realized that, silly as the president’s appearance may have seemed, it was also, in its singularity and consistency, unforgettable. As Doug Mills, a photographer for The New York Times who has covered every president since Reagan, said, the result was “iconic.”

Adding to the effect was Mrs. Trump, his ornamental equal, able to manipulate public perception strategically on her own. And cast in the supporting roles were, first and foremost, Ivanka and Jared, the effective prom king and queen, skin and hair and teeth polished to an impenetrable sheen. Arrayed beside them, like a Foxified Greek chorus, Tiffany Trump, Lara Trump, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Hope Hicks and Kayleigh McEnany. Plus Don Jr. and Eric.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 22 - 12:48 PM

Ad:
Voters all agree rule by violence is more thrilling than Democracy.
So... Trump wins in advance, or else.

this message is approved by wealthy racist power brokers who have the most $ to lose and can afford a civil war. Not the disenfranchised red neck racists who only have their lives to lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 22 - 05:39 PM

The plastic surgury modified Ivanka doll comes in many versions; airplane unmasked, insurgent, prom queen, jewelry mogul, incest trophy, unvaxxed super hero and pseudo cabinate member.
Collect them all- accessories are seperate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 22 - 06:34 PM

If I were Biden I would not kill or carve up the Filibuster.
I would RESTORE it to its original form.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 22 - 02:42 PM

The Trump Supream court ruled big business may not mandate vaccine for its workers under OSHA saftey law.

Mandates under HHS for health care workers was ruled they must be vaccinated.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 22 - 04:58 PM

Right before Biden was going to ask Congress for voting rights, Senator Sinema gave her Meatloaf speech. "I would do anything for voting rights but I won't do that".
She won't change the super majority rule so Democrats don't have the votes. Its not looking good for democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jan 22 - 04:16 PM

Sinema had better get used to the idea of being a one-term senator.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 22 - 06:37 PM

The 'tear' and crying voice in Sinema's speach doesn't fool anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 09:25 AM

the new GOP Virginia Govenor and Trump wannabe at the peak of this pandemic wave, school staffing problems and a rise in child infections made an EXECUTIVE ORDER to remove all mandates for masks in schools.

Timing is everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 11:22 PM

The Trump Org Stiffed a Hotel. His Kids May Pay the Price

That dodged payment is now the crux of the attorney general for the District of Columbia’s latest effort to put the Trump Organization back in its crosshairs in an ongoing investigation into how the Trump kids used the Presidential Inauguration Committee to throw lavish parties of their own.

“It was their friends. It should never have been sent to the PIC. That’s misuse of funding. The Trump Organization being involved in any way and getting the PIC to pay any sort of balance anywhere on their behalf? It just doesn’t seem legitimate,” said Stephanie Winston Wolkoff, who coordinated inaugural events and is now the government’s lead witness in this case.

Winston Wolkoff is no friend of the Trumps—any more. Although she was close to the family for more than a decade and eventually became “Trusted Adviser” to First Lady Melania Trump, there was a fallout after Winston Wolkoff felt that the Trump White House made her the scapegoat for inauguration misspending. The New York Times identified a company associated with her, WIS Media Partners, as the recipient of a whopping $26 million, and Winston Wolkoff later overcame Justice Department resistance to publication of her tell-all book called Melania and Me.

That book catalogs the events around the Inaugural committee work, and will in the end serve to clobber the Trump children, if not Trump himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 22 - 08:20 AM

The coming elections are based on a fallacy that boomers and folks in their 50's will have an impact over 30%. They won't.
Last time the youngest voters we're at 40% of thr total.
Generation Z has not known an America without school shootings, losing their parent's homes in the financial scam, 9-11, pandemic, Middle East wars, Trump and the George Floyd BLM.

The greatest fears of boomers were Viet Nam and nuclear war. Nukes were always a distant invisible fear. The fear of the younger generation is more intense than anything boomers faced. If the young vote turned out at 70% they would win all elections despite the crazies.
Why? It is constant real world fear and not an imaginary takeover by black voters.

The preditions of more attempts of a coup are real but so is the importance of a younger voter being more in charge than we have seen before. Its not about the older voter ANYMORE.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 22 - 11:36 PM

Giuliani (and his fellow attorneys who were involved in the bogus cases to throw out the vote counts) got his ass subpoenaed by the January 6 committee.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 07:44 AM

The republicans have lost their memory. They are not killed for their ivory. They no longer are represented by their mascot the Elephant.

My submission for their new mascot is MEPHITES. The
scientific name for the AMERICAN skunk species is Mephitis mephitis The Latin word mephitis means poisonous smell. This animal is sometimes called a polecat. It is a burrowing animal that can undermine all kinds of structures.

The Democrats are still reoresented well by the whining whinging Jack ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 01:14 PM

Asserting their fifth amendment rights to not incriminate themselves.

Eric Trump and Allen Weisselberg invoked their 5th Amendment rights more than 500 times in Trump Organization probe, court filing says

Eric Trump appeared for a deposition in October 2020. Tuesday's court filing said he "invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in response to more than 500 questions over six hours."

Weisselberg sat for a deposition in September 2020.

"At testimony held on September 24, 2020, after answering a number of preliminary questions, Allen Weisselberg invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination to more than 500 questions over five-and-a-half hours," the filing said.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 03:55 PM

readers want to know how many months it took Eric to be coached to take the 5th

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 07:46 PM

The last Hail Mary obstruction pass by donald trump has been struck down by the Supream Court. All his White House (insurrection) records are to be given to Congress. Bad News for liars who can now be prosecuted for pergury among other crimes and conspiracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 12:50 PM

From Rawstory: Watergate lawyer explains how Supreme Court handed Congress the keys to put Trump in prison

Watergate lawyer Nick Ackerman spoke with CNN Thursday after a late-night decision from the Supreme Court and said that former President Donald Trump is finally starting to face consequences for his actions. He even went on to suggest that if the evidence proves Trump intentionally tried to stop Congress then the former president could be on the hook for up to 20 years in prison.

"If you took it from Donald Trump's standpoint, he truly believes the three people he appointed to the Supreme Court have to be loyal to him. That they owe him," said Ackerman. "He looks at it as a quid pro quo type of arrangement he's used to in business. The fact of the matter is these Supreme Court justices stick to the rule of law and in this particular case what they did is they relied on the 1974 decision of U.S. v. Nixon where Nixon tried to do the same thing and conceal his office tapes from the prosecutors based on executive privilege. What the court did was essentially adopt the same decision that was given in Nixon. I mean, this was history repeating itself."

He went on to say that during President Richard Nixon's era, there was a concern that he'd appointed several Supreme Court justices too. That too was an 8-0 decision.

"Because the Court of Appeals concluded that President Trump's claims would have failed even if he were the incumbent, his status as a former President necessarily made no difference to the court's decision," the Court said.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 04:29 PM

If I were to talk with Nick Ackerman I would point out that Trump faces more exposure from Georgia and NYC grand juries that could result in a jury of his peers putting him in prison MORE than from Congress. I think Nick would agree in the end but it would get heated.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 06:02 PM

There are full reversals in Amrican history like The Democrats being the racist party and Lincoln Republicans freeing the slaves leading to the 14th&15th ammendent. The Red Scare by McCarthy accusing everyone including I Love Lucy of being communist. Today Tucker Carlson and Trump admire Putin and dictatorships like Hungary and shun the CIA and Democracy in the name of the Republican Party.

By using both fascist and dictator tricks a loyal Republican is to believe everything the Constitution stands for is an enemy of the people. People who profit from being friends with the dictator find it easier to navigate with a mad man than the law and are highly motivated. The blowback from these threats are only beggining to blow.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 22 - 06:10 PM

The media calls it chickens coming home to roost. I would change roost to roast.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 07:09 AM

Are African Americans American?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 08:21 AM

Both sides are using the same phrases in opposite meanings
Big Lie for Republicans is one thing and another for Democrats.
Fake news also has opposite meanings.
In the next election both sides will claim a big lie according to the other side's fake news.
There will not be not a single nation long after that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 22 - 06:19 PM

Lyrics
One, two,
One, two, three, four!
It don't come easy,
You know he's so damn sleasy.
He's so damn sleasy,
You know he's so damn sleasy.
Got to pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues,
And you know he cheats so easy.
You don't have to shout or leap about,
You know he can make you queasy.
Open up your heart, let's come together,
Use a little love
And we will make it work out better,
He don't ask for much, He only wants your trust,
And you know he's so damn sleasy.
And this land of mine keeps lieing all the time,
You know he's slippery and greasy.
Peace, remember peace is how we make it,
Here within your reach
If you're big enough to take it.
Got to pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues,
And you know it don't come easy.
You don't have to shout or leap about,
You can even play them easy.
Peace, remember peace is how we make it,
Here within your reach
If you're big enough to take it.
I don't ask for much, I only want your trust,
And you know it don't come easy.
And this love of mine keeps growing all the time,
And you know he makes you queasy.
"what's his name?" Trump!
"what's his name?" Trump!
"just in case anybody forgot."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 06:45 AM

Corporations on the right with a dislike of regulation and government control of everything from monopolies to worker rights is the very definition of Mussolini's fascism. It led to conspiracies to overthrow FDR for a fascist takeover in the 1930's. We are there again and people are sleepwalking into a dangerous era again. Its not without warnings from people who know better. Its not without people believing extreme absurdities.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 07:03 AM

Well I'm glad you said that. When I said, a few weeks ago, that the US was sleepwalking into disaster, I was shot down as an ignorant Brit poking his nose in. Good luck to ye! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 08:13 AM

Whats addicting about mudcat is how we learn from each other despite language and unknown-unshared perspectives.

I have a plan to steal Donald Trump Junior's diary and publish his souless searching questions about things like, "Why do all my father's plans for world domination always seem to fail?"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 22 - 06:00 AM

Trump promises to pardon all the insurrectionists if he wins again.
McConnel says "all those who pleaded guilty deserve their full sentences".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 22 - 04:18 PM

post #1234
Incontravertible evidence proves Donald Trump ordered the voting machines be seized by the pentagon to overturn the election.

This is the final nail in the coffin of criminality.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 22 - 04:27 PM

The final nail in the coffin will be when you get him in court and find him guilty. Otherwise it's all just talk. Keep us posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Feb 22 - 08:03 PM

The Congressional committee can reveal all of the facts; the Justice Department has to act. There are cases brewing in other places beyond Washington, D.C. but all are moving at a snail's pace. The State of Georgia has made the most progress so far, and New York is working on his various business frauds.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 22 - 05:52 AM

Ol cowardly blood and guts not only asked the Pentagon to seize voting machines he asked Homeland Security and the justice department to do the same thing by his own order. The planned takeover sort of had a 3 pronged approach, like the Claw. Nothing beats a bad idea like 3 bad ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Feb 22 - 06:33 AM

Trump wannabe Florida Govenor Ron DeSantis explained at his news conference that the Nazi demonstrators on top of Florida overpasses, hospitals and Retired Jewish apartments are actually dastardly Democrats dressing up like Nazis just to be devise for the Republican Party.
These Democrat Nazis in name only are just like all those ANTIFA demonstrators in the capitol on January 6th.

There were no arrests or identities confirmed of the 'fake Nazis' by the State Police. DeSantis has not yet admitted how he feels about real honest to goodness Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 22 - 10:43 AM

Trump folks are now squatting in some Canadian border crossings and towns - now what's that about? They can't make enough people miserable in the US alone?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 08:46 AM

Squatting?

How can we possibly punish someone who all their life has learned that special excemption, lieing cheating and stealing is the American way.
When their father only knew an America founded on the principles of the Klan? That it is dumb to pay a bill you can ignore? When getting bailed
out is always the option? When appearance is King and substance is the pauper? Where other people's pain does not remotely exist?

From their point of view, cruel and unusual punishment is only a monetary matter. Prison is an impossibility and only a distant reality for the stupid poor. Preventing this imaginary person from getting ahead in life or running for office again is the most we can expect.

Responsibility is only something other people might do.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 09:04 AM

On the other hand seeing the imaginary person in a 8 by 12 foot cell would be highly instructive to school children.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 09:44 PM

And today, 4 Feb 2022 Mike Pence, before The Federalist Society, directly contradicted the portentious pretentious potentate who had said that the then Vice President could have negated the will of the people.

Pence asserted that "...Trmp is wrong. I had no right to overturn the election. The Presidency belongs to the American people, and the American people along. Frankly, there is no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person can choose the American President..."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 06:51 AM

pin drop silence followed the Pense remarks.
Trump stole 15 boxes of presidential records that were retrieved from Mara Lago. I guess he wanted souvenirs.






























p











p

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 07:14 AM

The goldrn calf statue of Donald Trump may not be the only statue of Trump. A 3 ton grain of salt is expected to become the next likeness of Donald you can take with a grain of salt.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 08:06 AM

Twenty years after the 'Matrix' the Republican party reminds me of a cult whose leaders swallow both the red pill and the blue pill.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 06:34 PM

When you profile courage you see the cowardly instant gratifiers win initially but those with true courage win in the end. Having enemies only means you you stood up for something. Those who claim to be judge and jury and the supream bully attract the cowards and power of the lowest common demoninator mob.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 07:03 PM

It wouldn't be pushing things too far to suggest that the mere existence of Trumpism has delivered Boris Johnson to us. The latter more and more thinks that he can lie with total impunity. No prime minister in our history could have even remotely got away with the kinds of transgressions indulged in by Johnson, including several in which he's deliberately tried to sidestep democracy, and there's little doubt that he takes his inspiration from your man. It's worrying a lot of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 05:48 AM

The US is facing a changed electoral system to choose between domestic psychopathic physical violence and serene reasoning. Europe is facing foriegn violence with Putin regarding his test of will against NATO in Ukraine. I do not know crazy haired Boris the clown well enough to make a Trump comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 08:41 AM

The thing about extremists is they don't know when to stop.
The US white Nationalists are blind to their similarities to the antsematism, mysogeny and terrorism of Al Queada and the Taliban.
Their next best idea is only to become more extreme. Right now its bomb threats over school board meetings over masks and black history month events. Their signs used to say "Make liberals cry", Then make liberals bleed and eventually make liberals die.

We are at an intersection of high tech over manufacturing, Minority group majority over old white culture and hyper individualism over respondsibility to a nation. They believe everyone has rights but no one has responsibility. Our secret sauce was our immigration which is now under threat. I don't think Eienstien would want to come here now.
People do not feel at home in their home anymore since the Wall Street foreclosure of homes.

"If we stop immigration we will become old we will become tired, we will lose what is the essence of America".
Quote Ronald Reagan.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 08:45 AM

Regarding the Republican party of Margorie Greene, there is hope the ship will escape the sinking rat.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 09:27 AM

Good news... The US Postal service has been given 57 billion dollars and is not under threat any longer. The poison pill legislation that sickened the USPS is gone. However DeJoie is still postmaster, for now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 10:30 AM

Trump is a symptom of a really broken GOP that started down this path with the Tea Party folks. I was listening to an interview yesterday that described how Trump took that broken party, and not knowing how political things usually work, simply made his own "deals" with the religious right to do things other presidential candidates would never say out loud. He said he'd pass supreme court justices to eliminate Roe V. Wade. The book has to do with how "The GOP Lost their party and got everything they wanted."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 01:58 PM

Don't be afraid to credit Fresh Air with Terry Gross. She is an American treasure. She typically has a preternatural gift of interviewing people who know what they are talking about ahead of such magazines as "60 Minutes". She is fearless, inquisitive, and inquisitively fearless. She deserves her own thread.

But on to the snooze:

I read in today's paper that Representative Don Young, longest serving Rep. at this time, has aligned himself with our senior Senator Lisa Murkowski to slam the recent RNC statement that the Jan 06 insurrection was "legitimate political discourse." 2 out of our national delegation still have a sense of smell.

I never considered ol' Don good for much except as a milepost in time. But if he has not redeemed himself for a mis-spent career he has at least done the right thing. I also owe his campaign a thank-you for a timely donation of whiteout at a critical time during the Alaska State Fair, but that's another story.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 09:58 PM

I love Terry's interviews - I just didn't remember which interviewer I'd been listening to. Here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area we have Krys Boyd, who is as close to Terry in her interview style as anyone I know. And I hear both of them most days.

National Archives asks Justice Dept. to investigate Trump’s handling of White House records
The request came amid revelations that officials recovered 15 boxes of materials from the former president’s Mar-a-Lago residence that weren’t handed back to the government as they should have been

It would be sublime if a group of archivists and librarians were the ones to actually take down Trump.

The National Archives and Records Administration has asked the Justice Department to examine Donald Trump’s handling of White House records, sparking discussions among federal law enforcement officials about whether they should investigate the former president for a possible crime, according to two people familiar with the matter.

The referral from the National Archives came amid recent revelations that officials recovered 15 boxes of materials from the former president’s Mar-a-Lago residence in Florida that were not handed back in to the government as they should have been, and that Trump had turned over other White House records that had been torn up. Archives officials suspected Trump had possibly violated laws concerning the handling of government documents — including those that might be considered classified — and reached out to the Justice Department, the people familiar with the matter said.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 07:11 AM

Marge Greene referenced the Democrat Nazi Gespacho police for the 1-6 commitee.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 12:51 PM

I scanned a Margorie Taylor Greene workout photo with my B.S. bone structure app and it yielded a 50% match for Neanderthal. I need her empty Starbucks coffee cup for a DNA analysis. Anything above a 3% dna match for Neanderthal would be record breaking. I usually frown on eugenics but she may be a throw back worthy of being thrown out of the gene pool. She is not good natured.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 22 - 01:44 PM

Lay off. We Neandertals are a proud race.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 10:20 AM

Politics in the Age of Trump. Republicans
‘Disgusting’: Republican Senate hopeful condemned over ‘showdown’ TV ad
Jim Lamon’s ad depicts ‘shootout’ with Democrats including Mark Kelly, senator whose wife Gabby Giffords was shot in deadly attack

A Republican Senate primary candidate in Arizona has been condemned for a “disgusting” campaign ad in which he shoots at lookalike actors portraying Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and the incumbent Arizona senator Mark Kelly.

Jim Lamon, an energy executive, shared the ad on Twitter, saying it would be aired at this year’s Super Bowl.

Lamon would face Kelly in a general election in the autumn should he secure the Republican nomination.

Kelly is the husband of the former Democratic congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, who was shot in the head in 2011 while greeting constituents outside of a local grocery store.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 11:50 AM

The showdown sounds like a lawyer commercial, or soon will be.

"Ah'm callin yew out Bart, you low down Q hatin yella bellied sheike in the grass socialist".

"My esteemed colleage from South Carolina may have mispoken regarding my political proclivites".

"Ure nuthin but a child eatin piece of demo crap".

"Again my friend may have mistated my dietary requirements".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 22 - 06:58 PM

We have the Trump silver dollar, chess set, Trumpy Bear, Trump the musical (sounds curiously like JC Superstar) and now the Trump Handbook

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 01:48 PM

Monday comes word that the Trump Organization's accounting firm is warning of 'inaccuracies' and is seeking to dump their client.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 02:34 PM

sort of
They merely want to escape exposure so they will no longer attest to the acurracy of Trump's figures.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Feb 22 - 02:58 PM

It sounded today (on the news) that the firm isn't saying the numbers are inaccurate, but I'm guessing that they want to get out from under all of exposure. Trump is probably driving away current clients and any new business.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Feb 22 - 06:05 PM

Ha! Another judge rules against the Trump clan and they have to testify.

N.Y. Attorney General Can Question Trump and 2 Children, Judge Rules
Former President Donald J. Trump and two of his children had sought to block Letitia James, the attorney general, from interviewing them under oath.

Lawyers for the Trump family had sought to prohibit Ms. James, a Democrat, from interviewing Mr. Trump, Donald Trump Jr. and Ivanka Trump. They had argued that she was politically biased against Mr. Trump and was inappropriately using her civil inquiry to aid the district attorney’s criminal investigation, which she is also participating in.

But the judge, Arthur F. Engoron, wrote that “this argument completely misses the mark.”

He ruled in favor of Ms. James’s lawyers, who had asked that the former president and the two adult children be interviewed in the next three weeks. The order also requires that the former president provide the attorney general with documents she sought in her subpoena.

You know what about this reporting will really gall The Donald? They refer to him as Mr. Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Feb 22 - 06:21 PM

To testify under oath he's gonna need a lawyer to the left of him, a lawyer to the right of him, and a shock collar tight on where it will do the most good.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 22 - 06:59 PM

ha ha ha

It may be like watching the grass grow, the paint dry or 9 hours of Trumps repeating the 5th ammendment.
What makes you think Donald will lash out and go off script?

"YUROUT OF ORDER? YURALL OUT OF ORDER!"


Judge claims Trump's Humpty Dumpty Defense insults the Court.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Feb 22 - 09:07 PM

He took 15 boxes of materials to Mara Lago that should have gone to the National Archives. Stuff that was classified and that if mishandled by other federal employees or elected officials, they would do time for or lose licenses, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 22 - 10:45 AM

Democrats promise more $ and a bipartisan Military Corporate Complex, get elected and prove it.
Republicans preach government doesn't work, get elected and prove it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 22 - 08:10 AM

Trump and Fox's Tucker Carlson both praise the Putin Invasion.
Trump calls Putin super savvy, Tucker asks viewers to lend him their ears for he has come to come to praise Putin and not to bury him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 22 - 11:15 AM

There are several recent interviews with Fiona Hill, all right before the invasion started. But she hit the nail on the head - Trump has a lot of blame in Putin's deciding to make this move now. Trump made it clear to Putin that he considered Ukraine

Explaining Putin’s Decades-Long Obsession With Ukraine
We spoke with Fiona Hill, a former Trump adviser, about how the Russian leader’s view of history has led him to the brink of war.

Winston Churchill once described Russia as “a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.” It’s a phrase that could equally apply to Vladimir Putin, the Kremlin’s leader, as the world awaits his next move on Ukraine.

To better understand him, we reached out to Fiona Hill, one of Washington’s foremost experts on the Russian president. Hill has served in multiple U.S. administrations as an intelligence officer and policy adviser, most recently as senior director for Europe and Russia on the National Security Council under Donald Trump.

She spoke with us about Putin’s longtime obsession with annexing Ukraine, her worries about how he’s closed himself off from outside information and his private boasts about his ability to “buy anyone” in the United States and Europe.

Fiona Hill says that Trump emboldened Putin to invade Ukraine by treating the country like a 'playground'

She said Trump's foreign policy had not been driven by concern about the US national interest, but by personal interests and impulses.

"There's no Team America for Trump," Hill said. "Not once did I see him do anything to put America first. Not once. Not for a single second."

Hill recalled Trump's praise for Russia's authoritarian leader, Vladimir Putin, as well as his disdain for NATO. She also mentioned his campaign to pressure Ukraine for manufactured dirt about Biden in the run-up to the 2020 election. The Ukraine pressure campaign saw Trump threaten to withhold military aid from the nation, which led to his first impeachment.

"All this did was say to Russia that Ukraine was a playground," Hill said, drawing a direct line to events today, as Russia has amassed a huge military force around Ukraine, prompting fears in the US and European countries that a military strike is imminent.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 22 - 04:37 PM

If you don't mind the input of an outsider, I think it is more important than ever to nail the bastard. If the world stage sees this despot brought to task it will shake his pal Vlad. How you can speed it up, I don't know. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 22 - 05:14 PM

Gnomester, yer not an outsider. You're a cosmopolitan citizen.
No nationalism tests here. There are challenges of a common language, phrases and names/personalities but you're definately not an outsider.

Outsiders are people like...people like folksingers. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Feb 22 - 05:22 PM

One wonders what Trump is saying publicly, but one isn't curious enough to go looking for it. He's not worth the trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 22 - 07:04 PM

Time is ticking away. Your next president is Donald Trump. Let's hope that Putin has disappeared before that happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Feb 22 - 07:05 PM

Don't even think it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 22 - 07:34 PM

It's because yanks are not thinking it is why it will happen. You have 350 million citizens. Where is your charismatic democrat who could oppose Trump? Where, apart from your wishful thinking, is your will to nail Trump for his illegal activities? Believe me, the rest of the western world is waiting...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 22 - 10:59 PM

#1 The Trump census was devised to eliminate millions of immigrants so we are more than 350 million.
#2 The bat shit crazy Republicans are the Trump base while the sane former Trump supporters have been greatly eroded in the last few months. The house will go red but the Presidency is not predetermined and the Trump nomination is not secure.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 22 - 03:18 AM

Michelle Obama as Democrat candidate?

On a more serious note, in addition to Steve's question, is the Republican party likely to nominate Trump again or has the balance of power there switched to the saner elements? I don't know how that side of it works so any info would be appreciated.

And what are the chances of the well outdated electoral college system being replaced with one man one vote? Surely everyone can see how undemocratic it is to have some states carry more weight because they owned more slaves! Or have I got that wrong too?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 22 - 05:02 AM

From the Guardian:

During an 85-minute speech to a packed ballroom at CPAC, Trump, who contested the 2016 and 2020 elections, also gave his strongest hint yet that he will run for president in 2024. “We did it twice, and we’ll do it again,” he said. “We’re going to be doing it again a third time.”

Jail or the White House, Americans?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 22 - 05:06 AM

To respond to Dave, if he's nominated he's a dead cert to win the election, unless by some miracle a strong, honest and charismatic Democrat candidate steps up. I don't see one. Why would the Republicans nominate anyone but Trump?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 22 - 05:34 AM

In answer to your last question, Steve, maybe the party has seen sense. I just don't know enough about US politics. Comparing our own Tory party, do you think Bozo would still be supported by the PCP?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 22 - 05:52 AM

They would pick him because he'd win! Alternatively, give me a scenario in which Candidate Trump would lose, based on what we see and know now about the state of US politics. Biden is an old man and he shows it, he screwed up big time (in the eyes of the public) over Afghanistan and he is showing weakness right now. And he's heading for gloomy lameduckery. We hear lots of grumblings about Trump's dirty dealings and his dodgy family, etc., but, as with Johnson and partygate, he is ultimately non-stick.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Feb 22 - 03:09 PM

Donald Trump's Detention Club convenes for Putin's Ukraine invasion

Gloria Borger lets Trump have it right between the eyes.

Former President George W. Bush condemned the "unprovoked and unjustified invasion" of Ukraine, expressing solidarity with "our friend and democratic ally" against Putin's thuggery. Ditto for former Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. Former President Barack Obama said Russia acted "in violation of international law and basic principles of human decency."

Trump stood alone, outside, a caricature of himself (which, admittedly, is hard to imagine), calling Putin's xenophobic and dangerous actions "genius. ... Here's a guy who's very savvy. ... I know him very well."

Over the days and hours, it actually got worse. Trump's minions encouraged his geopolitical garbage and excuses to flourish. A favorite: This never would have happened during my administration.

Let's see: Well, maybe it wouldn't because you were already doing Putin's bidding. Maybe it's because you were very busy trying to destroy NATO as Putin happily watched. And could it be that you were too busy blackmailing the Ukrainian President to get dirt on Joe Biden so you could win reelection? Which, of course, you did not. Let's say that again: You did not win.

It would be comical if it weren't so pathetic to watch Trump describe recent events as the results of a rigged election. So now Trump fealty comes down to a three-legged stool: The election was rigged, the insurrection was fine and Putin is a genius. Oh, and Biden is bad. No matter what.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 22 - 04:01 PM

What a turd.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 22 - 12:29 PM

Steve was wrong about our last Presidential election and I believe he will be wrong again. Despite new voter obstruction measures the Republican vote will be split making for a another loss. The House and Senate is another matter.
The sources and methods of a Trump stolen election coup are better understood today and can be overcome again even better.

How a relative unknown dark horse like Emporer Rap can win the next election is unclear but not beyond the realm of quantum possibilities. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 22 - 12:53 PM

You gotta talk the talk and walk the walk.
Biden's walk is like a tiny wooden marching soldier taking small steps.

As for a moving and extremely emotional talk, it too is a bit wooden.

We won't soon see a President like Obama who ran down airforce one stairs without touching the hand rail.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Feb 22 - 03:09 PM

How complacent. Either you fight to stop him or you are taking a terrible risk.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 12:09 PM

I seem to remember that you can access The Guardian over in the US

Very good opinion piece today

Putinism is breeding in the heart of the Republican party

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 12:18 PM

Yes Dave this nonsense started with Trump. McCarthy the speaker of the house was heard asking over a hot mike "what are all these Russains doing over here all of a sudden?" Later on he was clued in and is going along with Trump. This does not mean the entire Republican party will go along with Trump's dream to share Russain oil fortunes etc. but it is an extreme wingnut branch of the party.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 12:26 PM

Mc Connell (the human snooze button) the Rep. leader in the Senate does not go along with the Putin praise or white nationalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 04:32 PM

At some point a huge chink in the wall of lies that Trump surrounds himself with will be prized loose and not only will everyone be able to see inside his domain, that house of cards will start to fall. Sorry about all of the metaphors, but his whole life has been lived based on bad ideas and selfish behavior.

The GOP is two distinct factions - Old School Republicans who were rational people who happened to be fairly conservative, and the Tea Party loons who showed the way for the evangelical crowd. The old school folks aren't going down without a fight.

I really really really hope that Merrick Garland has something going on in his Justice Department, though I fear he has a lot of previously embedded Trump folks in there who are making things difficult for moving forward (and are probably difficult to remove under Civil Service regulations).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Mar 22 - 04:38 PM

Dave, we do get The Guardian over here, and while they're very polite about letting people read for free, they prefer you name the amount you'll donate and for how long to wait till they ask again. I've been donating for several years now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 08:18 AM

The thousands we were told to expect for the State of Union trucker anti mask and vaccine rally only had eleven or twelve attendees.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 08:27 AM

Is this piece in "The Independant" good news?

Trump accused of ‘criminal’ attempt to overturn election.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 06:50 PM

Will the GOP Dump Trump?
Republicans have a clear off-ramp, but it’s up to them to take it.

Donald Trump withers in darkness. He needs sunlight—media attention—to thrive. Otherwise, he reverts to his natural state: Florida-based hotelier who will direct you to the omelet station or maybe give a toast at your wedding or bar mitzvah (though the toast is likely to focus more on the 2020 election than your blessed event). As Ukraine, gas prices, and other events of actual note dominate the news cycle, there is less and less room for Trump. Add in the fact that he’s also on the utterly wrong side of one of those events—Russia’s invasion of Ukraine—and for the first time since 2015, Republicans have a relatively painless way to rid themselves of the Mango Mussolini once and for all. Will they take it?

Probably not. But they should.

Trump is clearly feeling his displacement from the media ecosystem; hence his single-spaced three-page letter to NBC Nightly News anchor Lester Holt about Holt’s interview with Bill Barr (part of the Bill Barr Historical Revisionism Book Tour, as I call it). Some might see the letter, which boils down to a greatest-hits collection of Trump’s usual complaints, nicknames, and lies, as a Trumpy way to correct “the record,” whatever that means in Trumpworld. But I see it as yet another desperate attempt to inject himself back into the media discourse. The problem is that Trump, like an elderly vaudevillian, has only a few tired topics in his repertoire.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 12:24 PM

I like the Fraudvillian reperatoire remark.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Mar 22 - 06:37 PM

Trump doesn't let self-contradiction get in his way. When informed of Putin's move on Ukraine he spoke of it as 'genius' indicating he thought it was 'smart'. He now says he didn't mean it approvingly, but that's not so clear. He is currently saying that if he was President Putin "wouldn't dare" (invade).

I think that a debate against Trump could be successful if the debater sticks to his guns and hammers out the contradictions that are inherent in Trump's self-aggrandizing arguments. Likewise that his information does'nt hold up in a factual manner, as sometimes happens in this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 22 - 07:34 PM

The danger is, robo, that seventy million or more voters, the ones who voted for Trump, might not be too much impressed by the nuances of political arguments. Just one bon mot from Trump could swing it. "Make America great again," for example.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Mar 22 - 04:33 AM

The trouble is you cannot reason with those who have made up their minds without reason. Make America Great Again in the US and Take Back Control in the UK were dog whistles to which people reacted with no thought. How do you counter such populism? Hopefully, if there is one good thing comes out of the war in Ukraine, it will show people how propagda works. Whether those who voted for Trump or Brexit will accept that they were duped by populist sound bites is another matter :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Mar 22 - 04:33 AM

Oh - and 1300 :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 22 - 06:34 AM

Dave, Some might call it a conditioned response, brainwashed or hypnosis.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Mar 22 - 07:32 AM

Donuel has it right in Turnip's case. If you recall how often he repeats keyphrases aloud, it's a form of self-hypnosis used by followers of Norman Vincent Peale (qv).

Apologies for not being able to bring myself to say the T word aloud. In our house, he's more usually referred to as Agent Orange.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 22 - 08:55 AM

The same tired old buttock-clencher is still running here, inexplicably, with the twot formerly known as "Sralan," latterly "Lord Shugger" at the helm. Utterly unwatchable.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Mar 22 - 09:01 AM

Oops. That was a response to something that isn't here. Brain-fart. I was actually referring to The Apprentice...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Mar 22 - 10:07 AM

The Apprentice is a program I was never tempted to watch. And the really odd thing to New Yorkers, who knew how unreliable and unstable he was, was that after all of his business failures, selfish acts, and general stupidity, he still got elected by the rest of the country.

Quite often now when Zelenskyy is in the news, there is a reference to "Trump's first impeachment" as part of the story. That's gotta sting, even to someone as obtuse as Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 12:53 PM

Donald Trump Jr. has computer messaging refering to all the means they have of overturning the election results in place and ready to go.
They said Eric was the stupid one.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 10:43 AM

Trump is connected with an oppo research group that specializes in smearing enemy candidates with pedophile and child porn accusations much as QAnon and Putin has for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 11:47 AM

Yes, I've heard about that, and Rachel Maddow discussed how Putin smeared people who built a monument to Stalin's victims (accusing those caretakers of the site with being child pornographers, "the worst of the worst human beings.") Then buried them in prison and had the mass graves bulldozed. Maddow pointed out hints of that same strategy in how GOP tried to suggest that (then) Supreme Court nominee Ketanji Brown Jackson was "soft on child pornographers."

All of this led to an interview with Jane Mayer, who wrote The Slime Machine Targeting Dozens of Biden Nominees
In an escalation of partisan warfare, a little-known dark-money group is trying to thwart the President’s entire slate.

Rather than attack a single candidate or nominee, the A.A.F. aims to thwart the entire Biden slate. The obstructionism, like the Republican blockade of Biden’s legislative agenda in Congress, is the end in itself. The group hosts a Web site, bidennoms.com, that displays the photographs of Administration nominees it has targeted, as though they were hunting trophies. And the A.A.F. hasn’t just undermined nominees for Cabinet and Court seats—the kinds of prominent people whose records are usually well known and well defended. It’s also gone after relatively obscure, sub-Cabinet-level political appointees, whose public profiles can be easily distorted and who have little entrenched support. The A.A.F., which is run by conservative white men, has particularly focussed on blocking women and people of color. As of last month, more than a third of the twenty-nine candidates it had publicly attacked were people of color, and nearly sixty per cent were women.

A bit later in the article, we learn:

The A.A.F. told the I.R.S. that its mission is to conduct nonpartisan research, but it is curious that the largest contribution by far to its parent group, C.P.I., is a million-dollar “charitable contribution” from Save America—Trump’s political-action committee. Trump reportedly raised much of the pac’s money from supporters after his 2020 defeat, and his campaign has called the group an “election defense fund.”

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 05:03 PM

From CNN about Trump's buddy Texas Gov. Abbott.

Opinion: Greg Abbott's border policies are nothing more than a political stunt:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott appears to have violated the US Constitution by mandating additional inspections of commercial vehicles arriving in Texas from Mexico. After trucks were delayed for more than 12 hours, causing supply chain issues on both sides of the border, Abbott lifted the order Friday.

While he claims he was fighting drug cartels with executive actions, Abbott used state resources to design a personal cartel of intimidation to serve his political ambitions. In doing so, he flagrantly interfered with legal commerce and did so without probable cause, while hurting American businesses and consumers. The Constitution's privileges and immunities clause guarantees a right to free movement. Governments do not have the right to stop people and question them without probable cause, and simply crossing the border in a truck can hardly be considered probable.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 11:15 PM

An Hispanic Texas woman was charged with 1st degree murder for having an abortion. Charges were dropped only after everyone heard about Texas abortion murder charges in the Hispanic community.
Hispanic Zygote killers beware.

FL Gov. De Santis wants Disney to be strictly controled by the State and wants to remove self governing rules in Disney Parks and movies.
Disney executives had the timerity to question the Govenor's anti gay laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 04:53 PM

Trump's Beer Hall Putch and insurrection attempt may not land him in jail to only ghost write a book about his struggle but his supporters will suffer consequences they were unaware of, even if he wins again.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 10:48 PM

One of Trump's lifetime appointed judges (who the ABA ranked as totally unqualified) blocked the CDC mask mandate. For all of the wrong reasons.

How a Trump-appointed judge reignited a major debate over power in the courts
Are we comfortable placing such power in the hands of individual, unelected district judges — especially in an age when the federal courts often look just as polarized as the country?

On Monday, Tampa, Florida-based federal District Judge Kathryn Kimbell Mizelle threw out the mask mandate the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had imposed on all interstate transportation hubs — including commercial airports and airplanes — to suppress the spread of Covid. Mizelle’s analysis, such as it is, focused on two distinct holdings — that the CDC lacked the statutory authority to impose such a mandate (because wearing a mask is unrelated to “sanitation,” a dubious piece of statutory interpretation, to say the least) and that, in any event, the CDC had taken procedural shortcuts in adopting the mandate that also rendered it invalid. Because her decision purports to vacate the entire CDC rule, it has nationwide effect — meaning that, by Monday afternoon, most major airlines and transportation services were no longer enforcing mask requirements.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Apr 22 - 05:44 PM

Trump must feel proud . The CDC has had its credibility trashed early on imo. With no enforcable defensive measures we have lost the bio weapon attack war of the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 01:47 PM

Trump lowered the bar for so many people on so many fronts. And it has proven to be an enduring legacy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 02:58 PM

I heard a prediction that Judge Kathryn Kimbell Mizelle would be appointed to the Supreme Court in the Second Trmp Administration and would be the first justice to be strangled while in office.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 06:52 AM

Take heart Donald, even Hitler's first coup failed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 10:26 AM

MSNBC played a piece about the Jan. 6 events, and how though they moved Pence out of harm's way, he refused to drive away from the Capitol. He had a job to do and it seems several people realized that if they left they might never return, might never retain the ability to use the Capitol.

New Details On Why Pence Refused To Get In Secret Service Car On Jan. 6. It also sounds a bit like if Pence had gotten into the car, the Secret Service would have whisked him away to Alaska or somewhere out of reach of the activity that he had to conclude. Trump's Secret Service would have made it possible for Trump to take over and stay in office.

Really creepy stuff coming out lately.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 10:11 PM

It's a world of slaughter
A world of tears
It's a world of hopes
And a world of fears
There's so much that we share
That it's time we're aware

Trump's a tall tool after all
He's a tall fool after all
He tells tall tales after all
He's full of hatred after all
In his small, small world


apologies to Disney

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 11:02 PM

Trump used pardons to protect his friends and family after they committed crimes.

Biden has a better idea.

Today, I am pardoning three people who have demonstrated their commitment to rehabilitation and are striving every day to give back and contribute to their communities. I am also commuting the sentences of 75 people who are serving long sentences for non-violent drug offenses, many of whom have been serving on home confinement during the COVID-pandemic—and many of whom would have received a lower sentence if they were charged with the same offense today, thanks to the bipartisan First Step Act.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:33 AM

Boeing loses a lot of money over Air Force One contract

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 22 - 05:44 PM

Trump has been advertised as a King Maker.
Sorry Charlie you are a big loser and Republicans are late to the wake but are waking up to Donal's losership.
Yes as a LOSER he has lost the House, Presidency, primaries, coups, lawsuits, Supream Court decisions, respect and common sense.

Sure Qanon is calling everyone else the evil other. But the majority sees who the loons are. It just takes 4 to 8 years for people to come to a reasonable conclusion.

A recent poll showed that 1% of folks would prefer to live atop a toxic waste dump. The percentage is 80 % when people are uneducated about their toxic waste dump. We are notoriously slow learners despite being educated.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Apr 22 - 02:55 PM

JUNE 9th is when the 1-6 Commitee will have a half dozen public hearings on the insurrection.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 May 22 - 12:06 PM

Nice - today I clicked on Google News and had to scroll way down the list before Trump appeared. Narcissists need to drop off of the page.

He apparently misspoke at a rally, forgetting the name of the cretin he endorsed, but it isn't a story worth posting a link to. He misspeaks all of the time (it could be said that is his entire manner of speech).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 22 - 03:51 PM

The Japanese don't know how to translate his disjointed word salad.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 22 - 09:19 PM

Abortion rights overturned in the USA.
source: court draft opinion obtained by politico.

It looks like orphanages are a new growth industry,

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 22 - 09:38 PM

but mostly the price of Misopropenol will go way up on the internet...
Its legal and approved by the FDA but there is always the rest of the world that will mail order.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 22 - 10:06 PM

Now for the first time that US citizens have lost a right, the second ammendment has a precedant for being overturned.
jus thinkin in text but not out loud.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 May 22 - 11:27 PM

We're all Republicans now
We're all united and how
For national security
And cultural purity
We're all Republicans now
Death to Roe vs. Wade
Let government and civil rights fade
Less regulation--let people be free
To work overtime and have two jobs or three
Put strict constructionists back on the courts
Let liberals have it right in the shorts
It's a free country so go and have fun
But not in my backyard cause I have a gun
We're all Republicans
All Republicans
All Republicans now.

We're all Trump Republicans now

God put us in office
He's fulfulling his prophecy
We're all Republicans now
So if health care you can't afford
You better talk to the Lord
He brought us to power--it's His Will we do
His wish list is ban contraception for you
He told us to battle and never relent
We want no more misogination heaven sent
No matter what happens, we're not to blame
White male slave owners should win election games
We're all Republicans
All Republicans
All Republicans now.

Garrison&Don

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 May 22 - 01:13 AM

The document leaked isn't in effect now. They aren't overturned until it is published, later this summer.

Damn Trump. Damn McConnell.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 May 22 - 04:43 PM

The Supreme Court has the power to interpret the Constitution. Its rulings on cases determine the meaning of laws and acts of Congress and the president. Knowing the key decisions of the Supreme Court and the precedents they set is vital in understanding the meaning of laws, how our country has changed over time, and the direction the country is headed.

However if the Court by way of minority rule loses the respect of the people it places the Constitution and Nation in grave jeopardy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 22 - 04:48 PM

The Conservative agenda is to ban gay marriage next, eliminate contraception and to strengthen their culture war attacks with death threats. Nothing works as well as success to firm ones resolve.

Local Fox news shows a 60% vote for the Supreme Court decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 May 22 - 05:46 PM

Trmp's endorsenent of author J D Vance apparently showed he has powers still.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 04 May 22 - 09:29 PM

My non-legal understanding of the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision by The Supremes is that they derived a right to privacy out of the 14th Amendment, and proceeded from there. Roe v. Wade is not the only decision based on the 14th Amendment.

Joe Biden made some comments yesterday or today that I think accurately called our attention to the fact that other aspects of 'settled law' may become unstuck if the Alito Draft, released yesterday, becomes a majority decision.

If someone with relevant Constitutional chops could comment on this I'd be very interested. It might deserve its own thread.

I have also mentioned among friends that if Roe v. Wade is reversed, which I think is the correct term, it will lead to women dying while trying to force their own abortions or obtain illicit unhygienic abortions.

I think this is a medium term to long term Trmp effect but is also related to the overall lowering of the bar that Trmp has introduced to this country and also the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 22 - 09:58 AM

If you go down to the square today, you're sure of a big surprise
If you go down to the square today, you'd better go in disguise
For every nut that ever there was
Will gather there for certain because
Today's the day the trumpy bears have their picnic
Every trumpy bear who's been good is sure of a treat today
There's lots of liberal foes to own and traitorous games to play
Beneath the trees where nobody sees
They'll hide and shoot as long as they please
That's the way the trumpy bears have their picnic
Its Carnival time for trump nuts
The white nationalists are having a lovely time today
Watch them, catch them unawares
And see them picnic on their holiday
See them gaily gad about
They love to play and shout
They never have any cares
At six o'clock their mummies and daddies
Will take them back home to eat
'Cause they're tired little trump nuts
If you go down in the square today, you'd better not go alone
It's crazy down in the square today, but safer to stay at home
For every nut that ever there was
Will gather there for certain because
Today's the day the trumpy bears have their picnic

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 May 22 - 09:32 PM

Many a fortune was conceived in the shadow of a lie.
The most evil plans were made on a moonless night in the darkest room of white christian associations. However the greatest most long lasting criminal lies were made by the fossil fuel boys who put the entire world on the runaway highway to a Venus atmosphere on Earth.

We missed the last possible course change away from extinction by a mere 20 years.

How easily hypnotized we were to the men who used the phrase "The reality is".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 May 22 - 07:29 PM

The religious right American Taliban prefers their ladies with less clothes and a Supream Court to make women 2/5ths citizens.
Reducing women's sufferage almost sounds like a good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 May 22 - 05:20 PM

Will Elon Musk's opinion to put Trump back on Twitter make Trump take the bait?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 May 22 - 04:39 PM

The only way to assure a secrect is kept between two people is to kill one of them. When hundreds are involved killing half of them should do the trick. When will the Trump coup conspiracy compatriot murders begin?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 May 22 - 04:56 PM

I suggest Garland arrests one of the 5 subpeona ignorers and leak he has implicated the rest of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 May 22 - 09:28 AM

Bill Clinton is living on biological inertia and borrowed time at a very high interest rate compounded daily. Since they are both 75 why can't Trump succumb to nature's way of slowing down?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 May 22 - 02:58 PM

Apparently Dr. Oz (who was once considered a talented surgeon) is lagging behind another candidate in PA; being a TV star is what brings him into Trump's radar, but Trump's endorsement isn't helping.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 22 - 11:14 AM

Hitler's campaign slogan in 1930 Germany was "Make Germany Great Again".
Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Union empire and his warning to the world was "Don't Poke the Russain Bear".

The Trump playbook has plagurized Hitler and Putin.
I don't think Trump wrote his own playbook.

Dying Empires do stupid things be it Rome, Japan, England or Russia.
Some believe the USA is next.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 22 - 10:00 PM

George Bush is also 75. His Iraq waar bears many similarities with Putin's war.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 May 22 - 11:14 AM

Har, I sentence ye JD Trumpirate to walk the ramp

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 May 22 - 09:58 AM

His folks want to snag some of those states that make a difference in the election - hoping the PA governor will appoint a corrupt MAGA secretary of state.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 May 22 - 05:04 PM

A air bubble injection is no guarantee for a stroke but mainlining super glue is.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 22 - 07:30 AM

LOOPHOLE TO HELL

The supream court says money is free speech. They say an outraged 18 year old is a well organized militia.
They say abortion is a murder question up to the states.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 May 22 - 09:48 AM

Trump's candidate in the gubernatorial primary in Georgia lost, but Herschel Walker, the brain-damaged spouse-abusing football player is now the GOP candidate against Warnock in the senatorial race. Football vs Church.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 22 - 04:23 PM

I'm betting Trump will cancel his NRA appearance due to security chatter. How embarrassing would it be to be shot at a NRA meeting.
Abbott canceled and Cruz might be in Cancun.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 May 22 - 06:54 PM

Today Abbott did do a video recording for the NRA to make up for his absense.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 22 - 09:17 PM

Trump has lost in court two days in a row this week. The New York State Attorney General's case can go forward and he and two of his adult children have to sit down and testify.

It's a race to see who will take him to court first - the state on tax evasion or the feds on conspiracy for his part in the January 6, 2021 insurrection.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 May 22 - 02:19 AM

That sounds like good news, SRS. As he is also keynote speaker at the NRA conference let's hope that they are tarred with the same brush.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 28 May 22 - 03:10 PM

I saw a blurb on BBC that Trump had made some comment that after Uvalde we Americans need to spend money hardening our schools before we send it to Ukraine.

So there's that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 May 22 - 03:51 PM

I lost. Trump could not resist the stage. All the old NRA talking points are being doubled down. They will only accelerate the inevitable. Harden schools, harden teachers, harden students are not a solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 May 22 - 08:21 PM

Navarro will defend himself regarding his failure to appear before Congress. He claims he really has a presidential pardon, which he doesn't. He is going rogue or lawyers are afraid of being disbarred if they represent this loud but looney lunatic..

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 06:43 PM

How to deal with right wing radio, tv and internet:
There is a way to break their bubble. The conspiracy cults become more adament as they begin to lose. Each failure makes it a bit harder so they find another tent pole to prop up their lies. Leaving a bunch of broken tent poles unguarded will tempt them to steal goods designed to break.
That will leave them with their last gasp conspiracy of victimhood in which they did it to themselves. Most people do not want to be the victim as support melts away.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 22 - 07:20 PM

The 6-1 commitee will put on their guilty as hell show and reveal evidence later this week. I Hope it will not be a Mueller snooze fest.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 09:44 PM

The Guardian sounds skeptical. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/05/us-capitol-attack-televised-hearing-january-6

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 11:20 AM

There are public hearings of the January 6 committee to be broadcast in the evenings later this week.

Meanwhile, Jared Kushner's $2B windfall is being examined by the House Oversight Committee. "The House Oversight Committee is seeking documents related to the $2 billion investment by a Saudi fund in the private equity firm started by Mr. Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and former adviser."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 01:12 PM

SRS didn't hear about this. Pretty soon we'll be talking about real money.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 01:05 PM

We all heard about the Saudi extortion by blockading its neighbor until a deal could be made with Kushner. Where were you robo?
https://www.justsecurity.org/69094/timeline-on-jared-kushner-qatar-666-fifth-avenue-and-white-house-policy/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 01:14 PM

In recent years the 666 property has changed hands twice and ended with the name changed to 660 and still has a Kushner in the fine print.

Refurbishing the property is proving difficult and 485 million costly cheap makeover.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 05:42 PM

Side issue: The number 666 in Revelations 13:18 ("It is the number of a man") is not of the oldest authority, according to the marginal notes in the Revised Standard Version. The *very* oldest sources say "616".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 06:37 PM

Horror movies taught me that 666 is the mark of the beast, whatever that is. I'm waiting for the hearing rundown but a local mass shooting an hour ago has the local news hogtied. A State policeman and gunman shot each other after 3 dead and 5 wounded thus far.

Real estate is location location location. My advice to Kushner is timing timing timing, fuck location. As a slum lord Kushner has his favorite dirty means & methods.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jun 22 - 10:50 AM

Last night's opening salvo brought back the drama of the events on January 6, and laid it directly at Trump's feet. Here's hoping the Justice Department acts on all of the information revealed.

The filmmaker who was following the Proud Boys and got footage on the day of the assault on the Capitol answered questions about his presence that he was at the hearing "under subpoena." The officer who testified didn't need to be compelled. Despite having his hand forced, the filmmaker will get some good publicity out of all of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jun 22 - 06:23 PM

Stephen Colbert had a live show after the June 9 hearings and was pretty scathing on Trmp. It's worth a watch "There was so much burger!"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jun 22 - 07:30 PM

When Bush stole an election it was about hanging Chads.
When Trump tried it was about hanging Mike Pense.

The worst thing is that future Secretarys of State are standing by to change election results. 32 of them belong to America first Society.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jun 22 - 01:48 PM

Scary stuff in the Guardian

I hope they are wrong :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Jun 22 - 02:29 PM

Donuel> hanging Chads

At least they constituted physical evidence, which could be examined by non-specialists. Try doing that with an electronic voting machine.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jun 22 - 06:29 PM

Would you regret if tomorrow you found out that Donald Trump committed suicide? No chance of that with such a narcicist.

If he found the courage to die somehow out of a fear of torture or imprisonment I would be extremely sorry and unhappy, not out of charity or anything like that but for the same reason I was sorry and unhappy about the demise of Lee Harvey Oswald. File it under the rubric, “Now we’ll never know.”

Mr Trump himself is what he always was, a vulgar con man who found his niche as a bad example, a cruel reality TV showoff, a kind of zoo animal so repulsive you can’t look away. As a New Yorker I’ve watched him out of the corner of my eye since around 1980. It was always a given that he’d continue to act out his bad-boy shtick as president — cartoonists imagined him in that role way back when. (See Gary Trudeau’s oldies, collected in the book “Yuge!”) Once he took office he became a sort of catalyst, triggering changes in American governance without being changed himself.

Now we’re learning how that happened. The underlying theme seems to be Russia, and I for one want to know just how deep the Russian penetration of our government has gone. It seems clear Mr Trump is in thrall to V. Putin and/or his oligarchs, but why? How? Who else is implicated? Why was it so easy to do? Can we stop it from happening again?

Viva Mr Trump! Long may he live! He’s an asset as precious to us as he is to Mr Putin. We’re beginning to understand some of the mysteries behind his rise to power and the Republican embrace of his unsavory self. It would be tragic to lose the key to such mysteries just when we’re on the brink of unlocking them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jun 22 - 10:11 AM

I have found in everyday life and death that there are some things that you do not recover from. Fascist Trumpism could be one of those persistant uneducated social traps.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 12 Jun 22 - 11:31 AM

Persistent it certainly is. I read recently that the same basic crowd has been around since the time of Tricky Dickie at least, and just got harnessed this time round by Agent Orange. Seems in politics (here too now, sadly) that it's not which party can capture the middle ground, but who can harness the extremists.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jun 22 - 11:41 AM

Guardian article with information revealed in the January 6 Committee hearing:

The news that multiple House Republicans asked the Trump White House for pardons – an apparent consciousness of guilt – was one of three revelations portending potentially perilous legal and political moments to come for Trump and his allies.

The first public hearing of the January 6 House committee will take place Thursday, 9 June 2022.

At the hearing, the panel’s vice-chair Liz Cheney named only one Republican member of Congress, congressman Scott Perry, the current chair of the ultra conservative House freedom caucus, who sought a presidential pardon for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results.

The select committee did not elaborate on which other House Republicans were asking for pardons or more significantly, for which crimes they were seeking pardons, but it appeared to show at the minimum that they knew they had been involved in likely illegal conduct.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jun 22 - 06:35 PM

Extremism is an eternal alternative but Facebook and internet communication is an unprecedented advantage to extremist tendancies, speeding up the process 10 times.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jun 22 - 06:48 PM

Stilly if we don't convict the rule of law suffers and fades.
If we do convict we risk a short term insurrectionist wave of violence.
Its a tough Gordian knot to untangle and a tough gun nut to crack.

If we risk conviction at least more people will read the Constitution and Federalist papers. On the other hand more people will read Mein Kampf or in the event of illiteracy listen on CDs.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jun 22 - 07:18 PM

Filk, America First and the American Nazi party ( American Bund ) has its roots in WWII (Stop War) isolationism and has its nazi heros like Charles Linburgh. Make Germany Great Again was the original MAGA phrase and was a Hitler theme but not as a campaign slogan since Hitler simply outlawed other parties. There must have been Roman Senators who promised to make Rome great again too.
Authoritarian rule of course predates democracy. What stands in the way of democracy is that 60% OF BOTH PARTIES BELIEVE that politicians run for office only to enrich themselves. It reminds me of a fantastic board game I created but did not market. It was called "Power and Greed". Like today the main factors were the 5th column called the Daily Leak, Federal Prisons, Outlandish wealthy and the people who had the smallest chance of winning with a populist President. Jeeze that was almost 50 years ago!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 11:04 AM

Trump's free agent acolytes are still out doing their dirty work.

Roger Stone and Michael Flynn under fire over rallies ‘distorting Christianity’

Have you read Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here? The story tells of Senator Berzelius "Buzz" Windrip who runs for president and who is a tool of the far right behind-the-scenes folks who need a face for their campaign. An overview of the scenario from Wikipedia:

Although having previously foreshadowed some authoritarian measures to reorganize the United States government, Windrip rapidly outlaws dissent, incarcerates political enemies in concentration camps, and trains and arms a paramilitary force called the Minute Men (named after the Revolutionary War militias of the same name), who terrorize citizens and enforce the policies of Windrip and his capitalist regime. One of Windrip's first acts as president is to eliminate the influence of the United States Congress, which draws the ire of many citizens as well as the legislators themselves. The Minute Men respond to protests against Windrip's decisions harshly, attacking demonstrators with bayonets. In addition to these actions, Windrip's administration, known as the Corpo government, curtails women's and minority rights, and eliminates individual states by subdividing the country into administrative sectors. The government of these sectors is managed by Corpo authorities, usually prominent businessmen or Minute Men officers. Those accused of crimes against the government appear before kangaroo courts presided over by military judges. Despite these dictatorial and "quasi-draconian" measures, a majority of Americans approve of them, seeing them as painful but necessary steps to restore U.S. power.

Trump is Windrip. That's all there is to it. The Corpo are Murdoch, Koch (the remaining brother), and a few other uber rich and connected Federalist Society and Libertarian folks. The book was written in 1935 by a prescient author who had his eye on American politics. Eighty-plus years later, along came bumbling Trump and it all was set into motion.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 12:27 PM

You got that right!

'It can't happen here' felt much more fictional 60 years ago.

Authoritarianism is the best way for the inferior sycophants to get or keep a job.
Cruelty becomes their key to competitiveness.

To see it in action is as transparent as middle school dynamics.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 12:31 PM

And here's another grifter who has thrived in the Tea party and Trump era:

She helped create the Big Lie. Records suggest she turned it into a big grift.
Catherine Engelbrecht founded Texas-based nonprofit True the Vote, which has raised millions in donations with claims that it discovered voter fraud. A media investigation found the organization made questionable transactions.

A review of thousands of pages of documents from state filings, tax returns and court records, however, paints the picture of an organization that enriches Engelbrecht and partner Gregg Phillips rather than actually rooting out any fraud. According to the documents, True the Vote has given questionable loans to Engelbrecht and has a history of awarding contracts to companies run by Engelbrecht and Phillips. Within days of receiving $2.5 million from a donor to stop the certification of the 2020 election, True the Vote distributed much of the money to a company owned by Phillips, Bopp’s law firm and Engelbrecht directly for a campaign that quickly fizzled out.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 12:41 PM

The best way to strengthen lies is to make them profit 100's of millions of dollars. She seems more like a coatail klingon than a original evil leader like Bannon.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 04:34 PM

Do you guys feel as helpless as we in the UK do? Our PM has constantly lied and been found out. He has misled the house on numerous occasions. He has been fined for a criminal act that was completely insensitive to the thousands who lost loved ones without being able to see then first. He is changing the rules so he can stay in power. And yet he is not only still in place, but still popular with some! I hope you nail Trump soon as what happens in the US usually hits the UK not long after.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 04:49 PM

We're dealing with a crazed narcisistic life long con man. You have an amateur in comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jun 22 - 08:51 AM

The committee has eliminated an important meeting between Mike Pense and Dan Quayle, Former Vice President of the United States
James Danforth Quayle an American politician who served as the 44th vice president of the United States from 1989 to 1993 under President George H. M. W. Bush.
Born: February 4, 1947 (age 75 years), Indianapolis, IN

It was Dan Quayle who talked Pense out of doing Trump's illegal take over of the USA in the eleventh hour !!!!

Instead the committee is presenting Pense as a glorious hero whose faith, honor and oath to the Constitution saved the day.

Mike Pense had more than a month to give a public statement that could have avoided almost all of this evil insurgent plan.
I decided to remin silent instead like a coward imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Jun 22 - 07:21 PM

DTG:
I had an interesting conversation with an Englishman who was a school teacher on a hike in New Hampshire many years ago. He had been brought up in coal country in Bonnie England and was according to him one of the very few young people from his district to get a post secondary education after which he returned as a school teacher to the land of his youth. He had subsequently moved to the States and become a teacher in New England.

He had a take on English versus American attitudes. He felt the English regarded themselves as more acted upon than acting, as opposed to average Americans, who felt the opposite. He mentioned that it might explain American violence, particularly gun violence, in that the average American feels he/she has personal agency and is more likely to exercise it, whether appropriately or not.

I tended to go along with that as a reasonable theory, but this was long ago, and I have modified my view in the Age of Trmp: I think that Americans have become more responsive over time to appeals to fear and hate. The sense of agency may still be higher among Americans than Europeans and Asians, but cases have been more distorted and perverted.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jun 22 - 07:34 PM

The American White Nationalist turbo charges their hate by proclaiming they are being victimized, that they are the ones being put upon.

The UK has always had their Nazis but not in the racist jew hating numbers as America.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 09:18 PM

Just saw a photograph --
actually it's a screen-capture from film footage,
the director is Alex Holder --

that makes Donald Trump look like he is
an exhibit in Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum.

Documentary shows Trump ranting

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 09:27 PM

An honest photo of Clarence Thomas could stop a clock.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 08:25 AM

Trump says the roe v wade court decision going to the states and that NY may not regulate guns might hurt Republicans. All his court picks did his bidding.
HE DID IT HIMSELF

keb you may be on to something. His hair and make up staff may include undertakers with wax mastery.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 10:04 AM

.... No need for wax, Donuel (and keb), or even formalin. One thing known to permanently wipe the smiles off vanity victims' faces is botox.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 10:07 AM

Oh I hope so. Accidentally injecting Botox into a vein will cause death.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 10:11 AM

The January 6 Committee meetings have been knocked off of the front page by the Supreme Court so it's just as well they've delayed their next hearing for about two weeks. I look forward to the hearings resumption. I think the Supreme Court decision will be a catalyst for a lot of people who were already pissed at Trump to work harder on get-out-the-vote campaigns and such.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 06:42 PM

Today the January 6 Committee scheduled a hearing for tomorrow to interview and release information they recently obtained. That should be interesting.

And as far as Trump's actions, it seems he's having trouble getting his social media platform off the ground, what with all of the subpoenas being sent to his proposed business partners. Grand Jury Subpoenas Could End Trump’s Plans for Truth Social
The shell company attempting to take Trump's digital media venture public said new subpoenas and a prolonged investigation could delay or kill the deal.

DWAC added that investigators sought out “various documents and information,” including items reflecting DWAC due diligence in relation to Trump Media & Technology Group as well as other companies DWAC potentially targeted. DWAC claims the subpoenas sent to its individual members asked for similar types of documents in addition to requests for information involving DWAC’s S-1 filings and information regarding the firm Rocket One Capital. If the Southern District of New York sounds familiar, that’s probably because the Manhattan district attorney, a former prosecutor in the Southern District, has his own criminal investigation into Trump ongoing.

All told, DWAC said the slew of subpoenas and ever-growing investigation could throw a wrench in its plans and delay or even kill its merger with TMTG.

If that happens, Trump could be forced into the uncomfortable position of shopping around for new SPAC suitors. That wouldn’t have stung so much last year or in 2020 when new SPACs were seemingly popping up around every corner, but changing market trends and threats of regulations have reportedly made the merger technique much less palatable on Wall Street of late.

“Last year was one of the best years in terms of SPACs,” former investment bank analyst Gary Stein told the New York Times earlier this month. “This year is probably one of the more difficult ones for me to navigate.”

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 08:23 PM

My guess and its only a guess is that Clark and Eastman are gonna flip.

We won't be sure Trump's political appeal is finally dead until he starts hawking erectile dysfunction boner pill tv commercials. "Hey is that Doug Flutie and Donald Trump"?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 09:36 AM

The January 6 Committee has those two by the short hairs - it seems possible they know they're going to prison if they don't flip.

There is a woman in Colorado named Tina Peters who is running for Colorado Secretary of State to "return Colorado to the 'gold standard'" as far as elections. The same Tina Peters who was indicted March 2021 for election tampering and misconduct.

Here's a bit more. I'm not so interested in this story that I'm willing to read all of these articles closely, but if there was ever a candidate to catch Trump's eye for an endorsement, she is one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 10:06 AM

I'm betting the woman who was Mark Meadows executive assistant is going to be a blockbuster witness today. Its not that important as long as the facts are sharp. I heard a new name for trumper wierdos. Its Hogan Hero fascists. So many of the trump loyalists were absurd to the point of comic villains posing as heros. They have also been called the gang that couldn't shoot straight but we've had too many shootings. DC had 11 this weekend alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 07:46 PM

TRUMP ORDERS Secret Service:
"Get rid of the metal detectors (mags) let the weapons in let everyone in, They are not here to hurt ME!"
quote of the day for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 09:37 PM

The fact that he knew they were there to hurt Someone is damning in itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 09:48 PM

The secret service driver that was attacked by the orange brat is not hearsay evidence. They have a deposition by the driver and did a deal that allows a solution to anonymity.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jun 22 - 10:21 AM

Frank Callery posted this on the Mudcat Facebook page.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 22 - 11:23 AM

Follow the Capitol Road. Follow the Capitol Road.
Follow, follow, follow, follow,
Follow the Capitol Road.
Follow the Capitol, Follow the Capitol,
Follow the Capitol Road.
We're off to see the Congress, and Vice President Mike Pense.
You'll find he is a son of a gun If ever a gun there was.
If ever oh ever son there was The Vice President is one because,
Because, because, because, because, because.
Because of the loyal Trump things he does.
We're off to hang the Congress. The Congress and pussy wimp Pense

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jun 22 - 03:12 PM

Ketchup is dripping down the wall
And just like the guy whose brain is drained cuz he's too tall
Nothing seems to fit
The ketchup is running on the floor, it keeps running
So I just did me some talking to the maids
They said they didn't like the way Donald Trump behaved
Tantrums every night
The ketchup keeps runnin down the wall, it keeps runnin

But there's one thing maids know
The dinner thats on the floor
Could still feed them, some is still good
But broken plates ruin left overs
Ketchup keeps drippin on the floor
But that doesn't mean the floor will soon be turning red
Maids put down red rugs instead
'Cause they're never gonna stop the stain by complaining
Because they're maids
They are rarely ever paid

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jul 22 - 03:50 PM

YES our politicians hid under tehir desks ans tables
Just like kids in school.

Our final election may be between law OR bullets

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jul 22 - 07:07 PM

From polemic sarcasm back to reality, The scrutiny of Trump has brought people into focus like Gen. Flynn who is only the tip of an iceberg regarding agents working for foreign governments without registering their employer to the US government. https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-trump-flynn-brainwave-science-kgb-20161223-story.html
There are many more to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 12:56 PM

The states of Georgia and New York are zeroing in on Trump's civil and political offenses. The House January 6 Committee may be making more than one criminal referral to the Justice department. And since a 25-year-old young woman had the ovaries to stand up and testify, it sounds like Cipollone found a set and will finally also testify.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 01:35 PM

It could be that the Georgia DA could bring indictment and conviction against Trump more severe than the Federal government. As Trump sez...we shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 05:34 PM

While Trump has never read the entire Constitution he should be thankful for the court outlawing cruel and unusual punishment which is the unnecessary wanton infliction of pain such as thumbscrews tightened during a televised 6 hour cruxifiction followed by a light brief blister burning at the stake and finally being quartered and cauterized.
I am concerned he would absolutely love the record breaking TV ratings,

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 10:29 PM

Trump's beautiful Mara Lago home is highly condimented.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jul 22 - 06:14 PM

Trmp is due in Anchorage in just a little bit to campaign for former Governor and Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin and maybe a few other folks I'll never vote for. He will probably not be campaigning for current Senior Senator Lisa Murkowski who actually has done a lot for the State of Alaska. He's supposed to address a crowd of thousands in a couple of hours from my typing this now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 22 - 08:07 AM

Has Sarah Palin ever completed a term of office?

nope

Lisa, several, including a write in win!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 22 - 06:24 PM

Wow what an amazing rally! To kick things off The Trump helicopter released 100 turkeys with painted white heads to look like bald eagles and dropped them on the crowd of dozens. Someone failed to realize the turkeys couldn't fly so they either fell to their deaths or pummeled the people below. Then Sarah Palin appeared with her theme song Mazing America
She did her lipstick on a pig joke and was joined by Trump who talked about his crowd size. They were both played off together to the tune of Will It Go Round in Circles by Billy Preston. The fortunate few in the audience will have turkey dinner tonight!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 22 - 07:40 PM

I did a quick Google News search and see a plea to Tina Fey to reprise the Palin role on SNL one more time.

There are an anticipated two January 6 Committee hearings this week, and though we probably won't see Bannon at either of them, the prospect of two years in prison seems to have brought a change in his attitude toward testifying. And Trump, who really had no say in Bannon's appearance at all, has said Bannon should appear, apparently to give Trump's side of things. :-/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 05:07 AM

> turkeys

There's apt. Reminds me of the comment made during the dot-com boom, in response to the prevailing mantra "a rising tide floats all boats":

In a hurricane, even a turkey can fly.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 06:02 AM

Thats funny but also ominous.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 06:41 AM

Without FOX news Trump would be a TV reality show has been and geriatric golfer. What I seriously want to know is the motivation for Rupurt Murdoch to do what he has done. Most people will quickly say its for money but I suspect it is something more.
Somthing sinister, vile and hateful must be involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 22 - 07:55 AM

Trump has made violence rightious and morally acceptable. Escalation is inevitable. Old republicans are noticing that their erections are being stolen. Young ones are buying AR 15's.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 22 - 09:20 PM

On the bright side mr sunny D is having a failure streak.               
he failed to; hang Mike P., shoot or kill Senators and Congressmen, intimidate witnesses, seize voting machines, get a ride to the Capitol, protect his para military militias, pardon RudyBannonStone, strangle his driver, eat his lunch and achieve a par in golf.
































b





















intimidate witnesses











































congressmen




















m

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jul 22 - 10:34 PM

The hearings today were very interesting and the committee managed to give a human face to the lives and experience of participants in the events on Jan. 6. They were courteous and extracted good answers from the witnesses.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jul 22 - 08:35 AM

Now that everyone can be a fly on the wall and judge for themselves the meeting on Dec. 16 and other crazy meetings, people finally have 2 sides to judge for themselves. There is nothing for me to joke about more important than the obvious truth that has taken a long time to tell.

Like the Webb telescope it is up to the beholder to judge what they see, or if they even want to look.
Thank you and goodnight.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 08:06 AM

Slo mo Joe looks like he may not make it through his term in which case all hail President Kamala Harris. My estimation regarding his remarks in Isreal is that they were deservably luke warm.

Joe is going so slow in all his movements it is as though he is entering a different time dimension.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 09:32 AM

Don't know what to say here. Trump was an Israel supporter and Israel has taken that (apparently) as tacit acceptance of the horrid way they treat Palestinians. Joe needs to move the embassy back out of Jerusalem (you notice he visited Tel Aviv).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 01:30 PM

The middle east is such a tangle of aggressive vines, the original tree is gone and a profusion of impenetrable chaos remains.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 04:36 PM

Trump dead at 73 fox news

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 04:59 PM

My heart leapt up with hope there for a minute — and then I remembered that the wretch is older than 73. The deceased is Ivana, the first ex-wife.

Dang.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 08:18 PM

Strictly a digression, of course, to dwell on
Joe Biden in the Middle East, on a T***p thread.
In response, however, to Donuel's 1:30 pm post:

In researching the Baha'i faith, I found myself reading a feature article about the city of Haifa, where this Iran-born religion, the newest neighbor on the proverbial block, has its headquarters in exile, so to speak (in its native Iran, being Baha'i can get you thrown in prison).
The Haifa natives, speaking respectfully of the world-famed Baha'i terraced gardens on the slope of Mt. Carmel there,
compared their city with places like Jerusalem.
And their take on the so-called Holy City sounded like this:

"Haifa is a normal place with normal people.
Jesus did not set foot here.
Moses did not set foot here.
Muhammad did not visit here.
Therefore, there is no violence or conflict or war here.
We all get along with each other,
it does not matter who is Jewish, Christian, or Muslim."

Others begged to differ.
Accounts exist, ruefully humorous, regarding the 1900's when the Baha'i Gardens with their shrines were dominating Haifa;
and one Palestinian Christian, with an animus against the Baha'is,
displayed an enormous lit-up cross on top of his house.
It just made people smile and shake their heads . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 10:26 PM

I believe that it was Ivana's and 'the Donald's' high profile divorce that first put him under the public lampoon seriously. He cropped up in Garry Trudeaux's Doonesbury and The Simpsons. Ivana showeed up in the movie "First Wives Club" and Trmp the ex showed up in one of the 'Home Alone' sequels.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 12:59 PM

Did she fall or was she pushed

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 03:01 PM

I had a brush with Baha'i. The people were more than happy.

Like the famous missing 18 minute erased Nixon tape, The Secret Service is once again good at losing files/texts like back on the JFK assasination. "Jan 6th phone texts? Oh they are gone along with our old phones, unless some geek backed up all their data, but who does that".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jul 22 - 02:22 PM

Perhaps she knew too much about the Trump Epstien days.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jul 22 - 06:14 AM

'Elect Trump again so he can't go to jail', is a helluva campaign slogan.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jul 22 - 07:46 AM

We can not indict a sitting President which means that only the White House can shield Trump from the Big House.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jul 22 - 09:52 AM

Rachel Maddow presented a Justice Department memo last night that was as frank as possible about the department needing to show no hint of political favoritism, but it left standing a rule from Bill Barr that no investigation of presidential candidates was to happen unless it was run by the very top officers and got an response in writing. This was issued in late May. We know the Justice Department still has Trump moles in there so his folks got a copy of this, and it appears the reason he wants to be a candidate so soon is to lessen the possibility of investigation or charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Jul 22 - 11:25 AM

Why would Garland give any weight to a memo written by the most partisan AG in recent memory in order to protect his corrupt boss. If Garland lets trump skate in order to avoid an appearance of bias he'll go down as one of the greatest wimps in American history.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jul 22 - 04:42 PM

Garland has always looked like a marvin milktoast to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 22 - 12:23 PM

A Q Anon nut won the Maryland Republican primary for Govenor.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 22 - 02:33 PM

Don't forget Trump is a war hero now. He led the amerikan nazis to sack the the capitol of the US. As for who won or lost the lie that is believed more wins.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jul 22 - 12:28 PM

No surprise, especially during the Trump years of dumbing-down the government so Trump could be king, From the Secret Service to the Fed, Inspectors General Are Enablers to Corruption at the Agencies they Oversee.

The Dept. of Homeland Security (oversees the Secret Service) knew over a year ago about the missing text messages from Jan. 6, and said nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jul 22 - 06:43 PM

Trump insists the gay antifa crowd storming the capitol were chanting "bang Mike Pense".

He also insisted Wisconsin decertify the 2020 vote last week,

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jul 22 - 06:48 PM

He needs to join Ivana, the sooner the better.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 22 - 11:56 AM

From Watergate one of the lessons learned was that the cover up was more prosecutable than the crime.

The Trump gang is apparently oblivious to that fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Aug 22 - 11:58 AM

If you don't read the Wall Street on Parade newsletter, you owe yourself that treat.

Meet Ken Klukowski, a Trump Administration Cooperating Witness in the Justice Department’s Criminal Investigation of January 6

Klukowski helped write the letter that Rosen and others not only wouldn't sign, if Clark was made acting Attorney General the whole management team would resign, so Trump backed down.

An outgrowth of the Clark-Klukowski letter was a meeting in the Oval Office on January 3, 2021 – just three days before the attack on the Capitol. According to Cheney at the June 23 Committee’s hearing, “Donald Trump offered Mr. Clark the job of Acting Attorney General, replacing Mr. Rosen, with the understanding that Clark would send this letter to Georgia and other states, and take other actions the President requested.” After Trump was advised by acting Attorney General Jeff Rosen and others that top officials at the Justice Department would resign, Trump dropped the plan.

Klukowski had been a writer at the right-wing outlet, Breitbart, which was formerly led by Trump White House advisor, Steve Bannon – who is now facing sentencing in October after being found guilty by a jury of defying a subpoena from the January 6 Committee to testify. Klukowski did not arrive in the Trump administration until August of 2019.

This guy also has ties to the Ginni Thomas stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 22 - 12:45 PM

Ginni looks tough in her nazi dominatrix outfit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 22 - 06:44 PM

In Germany slavery ended only 7 years before I was born. I see the 'roots' of slavery beginning to send up new 'shoots' in the USA.

You know there is nothing in the bible criticising slavery but its full of slavery rules such as "if you kill my slave I can kill yours".
Christian nationalists have some unspeakable agendas.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Aug 22 - 09:28 AM

One of Trumps' picks got the GOP nod in Arizona. What people don't seem to get is that he's picking people who will let him get away with his shit, he knows nothing about good governing.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Aug 22 - 10:36 PM

It is now evident to everyone that the most insidious pandemic is one of extremist insanity. Is it a symptom of; Covid, Wall Street pillage, Trump fascism, racism, global warming climate immigration, a billionaire explosion or perhaps pumpkin spice poisoning?
Whether it is a disease, syndrome or toxin, there ought to be a way to boost our immune system, get a vaccine or take a pill but the other symptoms are delusion and denial so we deny the answer that is hiding in plain sight.

THERE ARE 8 BILLION OF US!!!!
When I was born there were 3 billion of us.

Reproduction is exponential and food and water production is not. THE GREAT SLIDE HAS BEGUN. We are only at the top of the slide just starting to accelerate. The fall is slow at first and is only at 45 degrees. As it approaches 90 degrees we will be at free fall. Dystopia will be a luxury for the few. The entitled will be disappointed that delivery will not exist and defeats all their strategies.
There will be some real
4 horsemen biblical shit.
But right now we can forget.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Aug 22 - 12:24 PM

MyPillow chief spends tens of millions in fresh crusade to push Trump’s big lie

Mike Lindell says he has poured up to $40m into wave of lawsuits and a new movie as US experts warn of threat to democracy

The MyPillow chief executive, Mike Lindell, a fervent Donald Trump ally, says he has poured $35-40m into a wide crusade – a wave of lawsuits to get rid of voting machines that he faults for Trump’s defeat, a new movie about voting fraud, and a hefty legal stable – to promote charges that the 2020 election was riddled with fraud, despite a flood of contrary evidence.

In his frenetic quest to dispense with electronic voting equipment that he has often charged is defective, Lindell is hosting a two-day “Moment of Truth” summit on 20 and 21 August in Missouri, that he expects will draw 200 federal and state officials and staff, as well as hundreds of representatives from groups nationwide who have investigated alleged election fraud this year and in 2020.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Aug 22 - 12:31 PM

I hope Mike's movie does as well as the 90 million dollar Bat Girl movie.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 22 - 11:43 PM

The grapevine says a Trump indictment is less than 2 weeks away.
Eric Holder is part of the grapevine.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Aug 22 - 08:33 PM

https://www.them.us/story/the-house-passed-the-respect-for-marriage-act-157-republicans-voted-against-it

vote red for 1860
blue for 2006

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 08:38 AM

In the book Divider it is revealed that
Trump asked his Generals in the White House "why aren't my Generals as loyal as Hitler's Generals"?

"Excuse me sir perhaps you forgot Hitler's Generals tried to kill him".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 08:54 AM

By law federal employees may not advocate for a presidential candidate even if is a yard sign.
I have skirted the law again by producing this coming election graphic thusly:

VOTE:
1860 (in old timey red font)
or
2020 (NASA font in blue)
in
2024 !

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 09:03 AM

I think you're safe, there's probably not a federal prosecutor alive who can decipher that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 07:07 PM

MASSIVE FBI RAID IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW AT MARA LAGO.
DOORS TORN DOWN BUT NO HANDCUFFS.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 07:54 PM

No doors were torn down.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 08:21 PM

OFFICE AND SAFE DOOR were torn down or if you prefer "opened lock".
The search warrant was served early this morning and continued all day.
There is evidence of specific items of wrong doing called probable cause but everything else including what is taken is secret except to Trump who gets a receipt.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 08:31 PM

If Donald was smart he would keep documents in his wife's parents suite at Mara Lago. But they say they don't catch the smart ones.
The search is usually the last step after the covert investigations conclude.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 09:25 PM

Hallelujah!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 09:54 PM

It is a satisfying move in one of the cases against him. It seems the Archivists and Librarians at the National Archives take a dim view of ex-presidents toting off documents. Brought down by an archivist - it has a nice ring to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 11:33 PM

Heh.

Utah-based company ripped out 'Made in China' tags, replaced with 'Made in USA,' officials say

The apparel company sells items including T-shirts, sweatshirts and jackets on its website as well as through Amazon and Etsy.

Products, according to the FTC, are marketed heavily through social media channels, claiming that it would “show people it’s possible to live your life as a LION, Not a sheep.”

Some shirts on its website read “give violence a chance,” depict former President Trump as the Terminator and feature military-style firearms.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 06:59 AM

Last night Fox News, with no guidance or edited talking points, went off the rails with their hair on fire and spoke more nonsense than usual. ie What about "Hunter Biden, Paul Pelosi, Helicopters will attack American citizens, our oath keepers and all our people will be enraged and take the streets..."
Fascists will say and do what fascists do.

The break up of the Republican party will be caused by the great divide between the militants (aka American Taliban) from the rule of law advocates.

The problem is that half of the Republican rule of law folks will be deathly afraid of the violent racist civil war militants and will cower in silence with their head in the sand and asses in the air. Days of attempted intimidation are to come but America will deal with fascists as we have before.

Keep your hair wet and stay calm, there are ashes in the air.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 10:39 AM

Usually pulling the hair back into a braid and wearing a hat is sufficient to keep it from burning (keep it cotton, no polyester or nylon, etc.)

Discussion this morning of cross-department work regarding a search warrant. One agency (National Archives) want their papers back, another agency (the FBI) has to get it signed off by the director (a Trump appointee) and the head of Justice (Garland) and then in a different branch (judicial) to find a judge who will sign it. Trump could fight it but didn't - it wasn't going to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 10:57 AM

Merrick Garland SINGS


Every breath you take
And every lie you make
Every law you break
Every thing you take
I'll be stopping you
Every single day
And every word you say
All the golf you play
Every fight you make
I'll be stopping you
Oh, can't you see
When your whores all pee?
How the nation aches
With every lie you make?
Everything you take
And every law you break
Every smile you take
Every claim you stake
I'll be stopping you
Since you've gone, We've seen that you're a disgrace
Nightmares at night, are all full of your face
I look around, but it's you we can displace
I feel so glad, you are gone you damn nutcase
I keep hoping Biden, Biden please
Oh, can't you see
He belongs in jail?
How our vaccines failed
And his lies prevailed?
With every lie you make
Every law you break
Every thing you take
I'll be stopping you
Every single day
And every word you say
All the golf you play
Every fight you make
I'll be stopping you.
Every move you make
And every vow you break
Every smile you fake
Every claim you stake
I'll be watching you
Every move you make
Every step you take
I'll be watching you
No man is above the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 05:22 PM

Looking at the FBI raid from a distance, I'd say that all it will do is enhance Trump's chance of standing again, and, if he does, of winning. Never underestimate how much these populists can confect, then emphasise, their victimhood...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 05:37 PM

Taking official documents is going to be easy to prove - they've already taken away 15 boxes, now they're back for the rest. It's against the law and the law states that someone who does that can't run for office again.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 05:57 PM

Well let's hope so. He's a bit of a greased pig, isn't he, and you have yet to nail him for anything serious enough to stop him from running. It seems that your legal decision-makers are constantly stalling. You haven't got forever. And you have Joe Biden, who had better not even think of standing against him. See the danger.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 08:28 PM

The 'can't run again over stolen documents claim' is more tenuous than it appears but it is a possibility. Fascists will do what fascists do however the threats are the bark of an angry but scared dog. The 1-6 committee has laid the ground work for America to do the right thing.
Who is the alarmist here? Keep your hair wet.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Aug 22 - 01:10 AM

"He's a bit of a greased pig, isn't he, and you have yet to nail him for anything serious enough to stop him from running."

It is my understanding that there is very little that can stop him from running for president. There are a few things thst will stop people voting for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Aug 22 - 03:36 AM

Agreed. Hopeful talk about nailing him abounds, but I'm seeing little will to focus on concrete ACTION.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 22 - 07:26 AM

Reading the tea leaves is simple in this case. For people who already have Trump paraphenalia and who live 5 miles away from Mara Lago all decided to demonstrate their support for Trump - ALL 5 OF THEM.

The louder Fox shock jocks like Levin yell the more they sound like spoiled brats that parents would like to shut up.

The Putin strategy of winning elections by controling the people who count the vote is exposed in the US and is being defused as we speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Aug 22 - 08:47 AM

On the other hand the Republican party is gambling with all bets on Trump. Every experienced con man knows you do not run the same scam twice or three times, you do a different scam with different people. The novice con man candidates will get the votes of people who dream of an America with no Blacks, Jews and Mexicans but without women voters their dream will be shaken awake to reality.

Sure McConnel and McCarthy & Cruz are still hedging their red bets on Trump since they don't want to be labeled RINOs but you know how they have turned on a dime before. The pendulum is already reversing its direction while CPAC is mandating the nazi salute. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 07:45 AM

Everything Alexander the great, Attila the Hun, and Julius Ceasar did was legal because they made the law. Hamurabi also made law but a bit more compassionately.

It only seems everything that Trump does is legal but he is the opposite of criminals and warlords in a very ironic way.

In an effort to lock up Hillary, Trump made it a felony to destroy government records and files. Alas, his new law didn't apply to Hillary since she only destroyed copies and retained all files for the archive. The irony is that Trump can be indicted for a felony of his own created law.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 09:48 AM

Yesterday in New York City Trump took the fifth more than 400 times in a three-hour meeting.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 01:20 PM

Cable news and conspiracy fiends are both focused on Who ratted out TrumP!

Who squealed, snitched and informed? Who is the mole, whistle blower or turn coat? It could be a Trump insider or a laundry worker who saw classified on boxes.

Some guesses are funnier than others be it Lindsey Graham or Melania.
Actually its funny whoever it is because they probably have a personal motive. Thats why my guess is unpaid hotel staff.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 01:37 PM

A courageous and brave nazi Trumper marched boldly into an Ohio FBI field office and fired and fired and fired his nail gun, injuring no one.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 01:56 PM

They have yet to nail him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 02:04 PM

MSNBC reported the nail gun.
FOX news is careful to not mention that a nail gun was fired.
Only later after a chase was gunfire heard. https://www.foxnews.com/us/armed-suspect-fbi-cincinnati-office-launches-ohio-police-chase-shots-fired-during-standoff

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 07:04 PM

Citizen Trump has no federal power and can legally move like a pawn. AG Garland can move like a Queen. Garland announced that since Trump is the one who made the silent search loud he may publicly release what Trump stole. Garland also took respondsibility for the search warrant since the supeona didn't work.
Now Trump has to respond which he can not do. All he can safely do is take the 5th. He can however ask people to riot or attack the FBI which is also a crime.

Garland is being as clever as Octavian or Columbo.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 08:42 AM

From: Donuel - PM
Date: 17 Oct 17 - 09:58 AM

The demonstration of kneeling during the natonal anthem pales white in comparison to the non violent demonstrations of Ghandi and MLK that were met with shootings and beatings.

Also the neo Nazis although embolden by the administration are in a larval stage of being pre brown shirts [SA]Nazi supporters like before Hitler came to power.

If there is a time they are most vulnerable, it is now.

That being said, words are cheap and action speaks louder.

We know ignoring this, is at our own peril.

NEVER FORGET the US gun militias hide behind a curtain of patriotic credos and out number the brown shirts of Germany. Explore them from the inside out and you will find they are halfway to becoming mobilized by Bannon like figures.

If people wait and see, they will.


___________________

(On 1-6-20 they did)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 10:20 AM

The New York Times today is filled with an array of analysis pieces to do with Trump's behavior toward the intelligence community, the things they did to try to lessen his damage by blurting out or tweeting classified stuff. For example:

In August 2019, Mr. Trump received a briefing about an explosion at a space launch facility in Iran. He was so taken by a classified satellite photo of the explosion that he wanted to post it on Twitter immediately. Aides pushed back, saying that making the high resolution photo public could give adversaries insight into America’s sophisticated surveillance capabilities.

He posted the photo anyway, adding a message that the United States had no role in the explosion but wished Iran “best wishes and good luck” in discovering what caused it. As he told one American official about his decision: “I have declassification authority. I can do anything I want.”

Later in the piece we find:

If there is not one origin story that explains Mr. Trump’s antipathy toward spy agencies, the 2017 American intelligence assessment about the Kremlin’s efforts to sabotage the 2016 presidential election — and Russia’s preference for Mr. Trump — played perhaps the biggest role. Mr. Trump saw the document as an insult, written by his “deep state” enemies to challenge the legitimacy of his election and his presidency.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Aug 22 - 11:27 AM

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ex-cia-boss-brennan-others-rip-trump-speech-front-memorial-n710366 Donald is not popular with the company.

If Stilly was in posession of nuclear secret documents she would face prosecution without a doubt. Like Trump her defense could be she is a collector of curios that she likes to sell on Ebay.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 02:36 PM

The seeds of doubt have been planted with outsiders suggesting to Donald that someone in his family is the snitch regarding the documents still in the house. It has to be driving him nuts. Good.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Aug 22 - 06:26 PM

Eric has no clue. Don Jr. got clued in while the Trump family business lawyer was in hot water and learned about his Dad's usual con called the 'Spanish Prisoner'. Even Jarrod got taken. Better than jail, Dad will probably get rolled over by Jr. . So guess who is the primary suspect that is actually the puppet for the lawyer?

The movie version will be crystal clear with the use of flashbacks like in Ocean's 11, The Sting and Momento. The last winner standing will be the New York Jewish lawyer who ironicly dies in prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Aug 22 - 08:33 AM

I bet Donald would like to burn down the Archives and flush the Constitution. There is no MAGA movement without threats of violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Aug 22 - 07:35 PM

Get Together tune - Youngbloods


Trump is but a song we sing
We will never die
We can make the mountains ring
Or make the Police cry
Though the bird is on the wing
And you may not know why
Come on, Wyoming
We are the Trumpers
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Time to put Trump in power right now
Some may come and some may go
Trump will surely pass
Adolf Hitler left us here
He returns for us at last
We have traitors in our sights
They fade with a gasp
Come on, Idaho
We are the Trumpers
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Time to put Trump in power right now
Come on, Texas now
We are the Trumpers
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Time to put Trump in power right now
Come on, Dakota
We are the Trumpers
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Make America great right now

If you hear the song I sing
You will understand, ~ listen
You hold the gun to rule and fear
All in your trembling hand
Just one shot unlocks them both
It's there at your command
Come on, Ohio
We are the Trumpers
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Make America great right now
Come on, Arizona
We are the Trumpers
End the witch hunt and fake news
Make America great right now
I said come on, Michigan
We are the Trumpers
End witch hunts and fake news feeds
Make America bleed right now
Right now
Right now

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 10:42 AM

Trump's reputation for not paying people who work for him or contractors who come in for special events has proceeded him: Trump is rushing to hire seasoned lawyers — but he keeps hearing ‘No’
The former president’s current legal team includes a Florida insurance lawyer who’s never had a federal case, a past general counsel for a parking-garage company and a former host at far-right One America News

Longtime confidants and advisers of Trump have grown extremely worried about Trump’s current stable of lawyers, noting that most of them have little to no experience in cases of this type, according to two people familiar with the internal discussions. . . . Ordinarily, the prestige and publicity of representing a former president, as well as the new and complex legal issues at stake in this case, would attract high-powered attorneys. But Trump’s search is being hampered by his divisiveness, as well as his reputation for stiffing vendors and ignoring advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 01:43 PM

Payment is not the main issue. 99% of Lawyers belong to a firm. To be hired by Trump the firm's clients and the reputation of the firm itself could be more than besmirched, they could be disgraced and maligned.

Let Gulliani do it, oh he is disbarred and soon indicted as well.
Better call Saul.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 02:42 PM

Voted yesterday. Anchorage, Alask. Since the passing of our long-term solo House member, we had a special election for filling his slot from here and now to election day in November. Also to vote primary for all parties at once.

The special election was done ranked choice, my first experience of same. You have a 4 x 4 matrix, with the 3 party members and a write-in option. And you can rank them in order of preference. Or, as I did, just pick one.

Interestingly we had one Democrat and two Replicants in the special election runoff. It may happen that the Replicants split the conservative vote and we have a Dem for the next few months. By the time of the normal election, we'll probably go back to redasitgets. The choice will be between mediawhore wingnut and crimson knight.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 07:58 PM

Weisselberg buckled.

Allen H. Weisselberg, for decades one of Donald J. Trump’s most trusted executives, has reached a deal to plead guilty on Thursday and admit to participating in a long-running tax scheme at the former president’s family business — a serious blow to the company that could heighten its risk in an upcoming trial on related charges.

Mr. Weisselberg will have to admit to all 15 felonies that prosecutors in the Manhattan district attorney’s office accused him of, according to people with knowledge of the matter. And if he is called as a witness at the company’s trial in October, will have to testify about his role in the scheme to avoid paying taxes on lavish corporate perks, the people said.

But Mr. Weisselberg will not implicate Mr. Trump or his family if he takes the stand in that trial, the people said, and he has refused to cooperate with prosecutors in their broader investigation into Mr. Trump, who has not been accused of wrongdoing.

Even so, his potential testimony will put the Trump Organization at a disadvantage and is likely to make Mr. Weisselberg a central witness at the October trial, where the company will face many of the same charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 12:48 AM

I get broadcast television, I attach an old fashioned antenna to the back of my used flat screen old tech Hitachi (meaning it does not talk to the internet, as far as I know) and get still more television than I can take in. One of the providers is clearly a Christian operation, but they don't give me FOX news (FOX News provides FOX news). They have 5 channels: one that seems to be Swaggart & minions, another that has some dude talking about the proper prayers for final days, a channel showing old CSI shows with way too many featuring David Caruso, and finally FSTV, Free Speech TV, which features Democracy NOW and David Pakman and some old guy boosting unions like the New Deal just came off the wires. Anyhow, David Pakman had some guy on saying that the former POSOTUS is having trouble getting attorneys for various reasons, which is what you wouldn't normally expect from poliltical VIPs with notorioriety.But apparently The TRMPster has a reputation among lawyers. Not a good one. I'm not totally sure if he's slow writing out checks, or just a kind of legal entry drug into enough misdeeds to get his representatives sentenced for one thing or another.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 06:55 AM

The bigger the lie the more believable strategy" is being uded by repudican leaders regarding IRS raids with AR 15's to collect noney from small business owners.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 07:24 AM

Law firms don't have to look much further than the plights of Giuliani and Michael Cohen to see how bad things could go. I've got a feeling that even Saul Goodman would turn down trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 07:36 AM

Probably.
'Weaselberg', Trump's business lawyer pleaded guilty and will get 5 months in prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 07:42 AM

Now his main difficulty will be getting trump to pony up the hush money.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 10:51 AM

There was hush money for prostitutes but other orange home despot politicians don't get hush money, or if they do, it is hushed.

Grassly, Cruz, Rubio, DeSantis and the usual gang of idiots are saying;
"Are their 187,000 AR 15 armed IRS strike forces are ready to attack ordinary citizens, that means YOU, for the current regieme?"

Well, someone will feel justified in violence against the FBI, IRS, judges or election volunteers. The open invitations of civil on republican lips is their latest big lie. War was good enough for their ancestors and its good enough for today's bigots.

If they do inspire enough fear, they have a shot to attack America violently again with the same result as last time.

Trump is but a song we sing
We will never die
We can make the mountains ring
Or make the Police cry
Though the bird is on the wing
And you may not know why
Come on, Wyoming
Shoot all the RINOs
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Time to put Trump in power right now
Some may come and some may go
Trump will surely pass
Adolf Hitler left us here
He returns for us at last
We have traitors in our sights
They fade with a gasp
Come on, Idaho
Shoot all the libtards
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Time to put Trump in power right now
Come on, Texas now
Shoot all the libtards
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Time to put Trump in power right now
Come on, Dakota
shoot all the libtards
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Make America great right now

If you hear the song I sing
You will understand, ~ listen
You hold the gun to rule and fear
All in your trembling hand
Just one shot unlocks them both
It's there at your command
Come on, Ohio
hoot all the libtards
End the witch hunts and the fake news
Make America great right now
Come on, Arizona
Shoot all the libtards
End the witch hunt and fake news
Make America great right now
I said come on, Michigan
Shoot at your brother
End witch hunts and fake news feeds
Make America bleed right now
Right now
Right now

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 10:54 AM

I will try not to repeat the words civil w..
It is designed to spread thier fear and bile among us libtards.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 02:20 PM

Texas legislature bans 41 subversive books including The Diary of Ann Frank.
All in all I guess people are not good afterall.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 06:32 PM

After what happened in the Wyoming primary, you should be seriously worried. We should all be seriously worried. If he's allowed to stand again, he'll get in by a landslide.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 06:32 PM

Trump hires Gucci Mane as his Georgia lawyer. Gucci Mane is known as a billionaire's lawyer who is a RICCO killer and gets rapper criminals off the hook. Gucci is seasoned and successful. With a name like Gucci you got to be good.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 07:15 PM

Rumors of trump's next TV opus-
The Apprentice Inmate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 07:46 PM

His original lawyer was Roy Cohn but his CFO is now going to Rikers Island prison

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 07:59 PM

See which prison he has to chose from; Seen from above

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 10:07 AM

MAGA maniacs are saying "there is nothing sancrosanct about America or its elected officials. Death threats are the means of doing business with libtards and sheep in the dem regime".

I support free speech so lets see what their Declaration of Independance and Constitution look like. No doubt they will be documents of lies. As soon as critsizing the leader is subject to treason laws, we would know their true colors.

Instead of a Bill of RIGHTS you could be billed for rights like buying freedom (similaar to our system today) but lets give the fascists the benefit of doubt. What would they hold sancrosanct ?????
who benefits?
qui bene?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 11:41 AM

Donuel wrote: "Texas legislature bans 41 subversive books including The Diary of Ann Frank."
That is somewhat misleading, perhaps you'd provide a link to the real story.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 02:40 PM

Not just misleading, substantially incorrect. The bible was also removed:

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1117708153/bible-anne-frank-books-banned-texas-school-district#:~:text=The%20books%20that%20were%

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 07:13 AM

The left says Trump was in deep denial regarding his loss of presidential power so he kept documents. The right has dozens of whacko theories why he has top secret documents.

Everybody knows that the orange one's guilty
Everybody knows they were double-crossed
Everybody knows the war was Hitler's
Everybody knows the holocaust
Everybody knows the fight was damn close
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows that the rich are cheating
Everybody knows that the con man lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father and their dog just died
Everybody thinks about the end
Everybody knows there are new weapons
that they can't defend
Everybody knows
Everybody knows that the shared red hatreds
Are stronger than our true blue loves
Everybody knows their cash was stolen
Oh, give or take a grand or two
Everybody knows who hides in plain sight
But there are many people who hide in darkness
Without a clue
Everybody knows
Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows what it is that saves us
Everybody knows were short on justice
And everybody knows that they are lucky
they're not in jails that are not their own
Everybody knows the deal is rotten
and the old times are not forgotten
Except for what is written in stone.
And everybody knows
And everybody knows that the Plague is coming
Everybody knows that it's moving fast
Everybody knows that their God won't save them
When they take their final breath
Everybody knows Trump's lie is dead
But there's gonna be a here after for the misled
That will disclose
What everybody knows
And everybody knows the sky is in trouble
Everybody knows what we've been through
The bloody steps of the capitol
To a crazed revolution
Everybody knows who attacks us
Take a look at the Constitution
Before its gone
Everybody knows

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 10:11 AM

He is actually correct - there are some school districts in Texas where the rabid xtian parents have run amok in the libraries. Look up Granbury and see what they're doing. The larger school districts can push back against the nonsense but the smaller ones have been overrun on their school boards by Trumpites and xtian zealots.

As far as Trump is concerned, Waist Deep in the Big Muddy comes to mind as he leads the GOP into a morass. Let's hope he's the captain at the head of that line.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 11:51 AM

I appreciate anyone who does their own research. I may mention a headline in passing but educating yourself is the best kind of thinking for yourself.

The last time I saw a headline tell the whole story was
KENNEDY SHOT The stories were BS thereafter.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 01:39 PM

For an entertaining read check out Dwight Garner's review of Jared Kushner's new book Breaking History: A White House Memoir in the New York Times.

“Breaking History” is an earnest and soulless — Kushner looks like a mannequin, and he writes like one — and peculiarly selective appraisal of Donald J. Trump’s term in office. Kushner almost entirely ignores the chaos, the alienation of allies, the breaking of laws and norms, the flirtations with dictators, the comprehensive loss of America’s moral leadership, and so on, ad infinitum, to speak about his boyish tinkering (the “mechanic”) with issues he was interested in.

This book is like a tour of a once majestic 18th-century wooden house, now burned to its foundations, that focuses solely on, and rejoices in, what’s left amid the ashes: the two singed bathtubs, the gravel driveway and the mailbox. Kushner’s fealty to Trump remains absolute. Reading this book reminded me of watching a cat lick a dog’s eye goo.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 01:44 PM

And this, the rats leaving the sinking White House, as the Kushner family decided on November 5, 2020, to move to Florida. This was before the election was even called for Biden.

Their decision to move on opened a vacuum around the president that was filled by conspiracy theorists like Rudolph W. Giuliani and Sidney Powell, who relayed to Mr. Trump farcically false stories of dead voters, stuffed ballot boxes, corrupted voting machines and foreign plots. Concluding that the president would not listen even to family members urging him to accept the results, Mr. Kushner told Mr. Trump that he would not be involved if Mr. Giuliani were in charge, according to people he confided in, effectively ceding the field to those who would try to overturn the election.

This is the New Jersey/New York crime family member deciding that if the corrupt former federal prosecutor was involved, he wasn't going to participate in Trump's post-election activities.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 03:50 PM

Around one in 5 are without empathy for different reasons and mental conditions. Some are lively and some are wooden. It's easy to see why criminals are successful without empathy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 07:37 PM

The "Texas legislature" isn't who's "banning" these books (yet).

When a state legislature *bans* a book, it's permanently removed from all library shelves. Selling or possessing a copy also becomes a crime.

Nothing like that has happened, not even in Texas.

We're talking about local school districts where certain *parents* have objected to books, and school librarians have had to remove the books pending review by the school board - which is made up of parents and school administartors.

Whatever may ultimately happen to some of the books on the list, *all* the titles are still available either in other libraries or through bookstores.

Not the same thing as being "banned in Texas" by the state government, which, I assume, would be a legislative violation of the First Amendment.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 08:26 PM

I don't think any legislature should be in the business of banning books and making readers criminals.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 08:36 PM

People in Tennesee and Texas disagree.
https://observer.com/2022/02/book-banning-is-increasing-across-the-united-states-a-book-burning-in-tennessee/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 08:37 PM

They're trying to make teachers and librarians criminals. Trump made all of this behavior totally acceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 08:53 PM

Stilly if you haven't heard of Leonard Leo, research how he legally laundered 1.6 billion dollars and 'dark money donated' it to a right wing nationalist group.
He is best friends with Clarance and Jinny.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 10:06 PM

Trump went through the boxes before deciding what to give back to the National Archives back in January. Breaking news from the New York Times.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Aug 22 - 11:08 AM

Leonard Leo is also the man who is most respondsible for the last 3 conservative supreme court picks.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Aug 22 - 11:40 AM

I heard a story about that on the news this morning, I think - how he sold a business and funneled the money into a PAC of dark money.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Aug 22 - 12:07 PM

He found a new way to avoid high taxes by converting it to capital gains taxation. But his real coup was getting his select judges.

I wonder if I can get a restraining order against Trump so I can have a lawsuit with Donald.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Aug 22 - 08:46 PM

If I were to diagnose Trump I would say he does feel shame. You might call him shameless but he knows/feels that he is defective and is always trying to hide and cover it up. He is in fact guiltless as well since guilt is an urge to heal or make amends. He believes in a self importance that makes him unhappy and actually dislikes himself as many Americans do.

He is torn in different directions since he feels the most joy while talking to crowds about his shame that he lies and hides behind his illusion of self importance. Disliking himself compels him to attempt to humilliate others. Many people who hate themselves can identify with Trump.

I tend to call minimizing the ego is the state that is most satisfying when you are doing something that has your complete attention without comparing yourself with others. For some it is music, art or a creativity project.

etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Aug 22 - 05:17 AM

Today I watched a YouTube video about flash-flooding at Nogales. There's a Nogales, Arizona and a Nogales, Mexico, and I believe they flow seamlessly together. Anyway, a few seconds into the video you can see where a river (not a large one) has swept away Trump's border wall and thrown its steel members about like matchsticks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyNmQJJPHnM
"Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 11:49 AM

There is some big cash headed toward the dark money coffers.

One Man Has Set Up a $1.6 Billion Slush Fund to Fuel the Radical Right’s Takeover of Congress; Get Ready for a Dirty Tricks Campaign

And the loony-tunes Amy Coney Barrett is revealed: Revealed: leaked video shows Amy Coney Barrett’s secretive faith group drove women to tears it sounds like the cult that gave Margaret Atwood the idea for The Handmaid's Tale.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Aug 22 - 06:08 PM

There is also a male version of cult training for students the right uses for their goals. "The Family"
Many Congressmen used that training and money to gain office.
Separating religion from politics is not their goal.

The redacted document about the top secret files Trump stole is similar to UFO documents I've seen - blacked out entirely.
All we know is how much there was. Clever people try to piece together INTENT by the kind of file it is. Sometimes a judge will not prosecute because of the inflammatory nature of the stolen secrets.
Trump has no security clearance and is facing charges of unauthorized possession. It could be worse if intent can ever be established.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Aug 22 - 02:21 PM

I had a dream that Michael Wood unearthed an unknown, unperformed Shakespear play with the help of an archeologist at the site of the former Grey Friars Priory in Leicester. The play is about a deformed deposed king that upon his resignation kept the crown jewels in boxes that were moved to his modest castle dungeon on a dreary northern coast...
Where these dreams come from is strange indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 12:02 PM

Probably helpful to post here (even though they published on April 1, it is a real article):

How to Spot Disinformation?
Knowing how to identify disinformation is crucial to shutting it down

From the Union of Concerned Scientists. Who probably tore their hair out all through the Trump administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 01:33 PM

All good suggestions but spotting the fakes and fascist propogandists has only recently become far more challenging.
Zuckerberg may have actually believed the process of disinformtion removal could be accomplished but it is now more refined and pervasive.
The people required to do this work would have to be as high as 40 to 60% of an organization as described on npr.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 06:37 AM

The stolen 154 top secret and secret documents from the basement at Merde Lager are being differentiated from documents marked confidential that may have to do with attorney client priviledge.

Republicans are calling this a small book keeping error.
They are also scrubbing their websites of any mention of their stand on abortion and personhood.

Lindsey Graham (cracker) claims Trump is above the law and threatens violence in the streets. The Wall St. Journal is looking like the Washington Times

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 11:13 AM

> a small book keeping error

Did someone find a copy of The Thoughts of Chairman Mao in Agent Orange's safe?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Aug 22 - 01:20 PM

The Wall Street Journal asks "Is that all there is"?
"You better have a former President dead to rights".

… I remember when I was very young, our house caught on fire
I'll never forget the look on my father's face as he gathered me up
In his arms and raced through the
Burning building out on the pavement
… And I stood there shivering in my pajamas
And watched the whole world go up in flames
And when it was all over I said to myself
Is that all there is to a fire?

… Is that all there is, is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

… And when I was twelve years old
My daddy took me to the circus, the greatest show on Earth
There were clowns and elephants and dancing bears
And a beautiful lady in pink tights flew high above our heads
… And as I sat there watching
I had the feeling that something was missing
I don't know what, but when it was over I said to myself
Is that all there is to the circus?

… Is that all there is, is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

… And then I fell in love
In the most wonderful way in the world
We'd take long walks by the river or
Just sit for hours gazing into each other's eyes
We were so very much in love
Then one day it went away and I thought I'd die, but I didn't
And when I didn't I said to myself
Is that all there is to love?

… Is that all there is, is that all there is?
If that's all there is, my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

… I know what you must be saying to yourselves
If that's the way I feel about it why don't I just end it all?
Oh, no, not me, I'm not ready for that final disappointment
Because I know just as well as I'm standing here talking to you
That when that final moment comes and I'm
Breathing my last breath, I'll be saying to myself

… Is that all there is, is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the shrooms and have a ball
If that's all there is

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 06:28 AM

Trump openly calls for Civil War on his truth social twitter wannabe site.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 07:43 AM

The more Trump moans "everybody is against me in the never ending witch hunts" the more intelligent Republicans believe him and the toxic effect he has on elections. Its too late for conservative fascists to turn around for the midterms but more will wise up in two years.
By attacking all women of all ages the crazy base is shrinking and the rational folks are united. Those raised on Rush Limbaugh bit off more than they can swallow and were not careful what they wished for.

Fear and death threats will go a long way to chase some people from their patriotic and democratic and personal duty among; Doctors, nurses, election volunteers, law enforcement, teachers, professors, school boards and whoever the next boogyman is targeted by fascist American Taliban types in service to their orange Hitleresque leader.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Aug 22 - 08:09 AM

Fortunately Truth Social (Disease) appears to be tanking and, as with all other trump ventures, leaving unpaid vendors in it's wake.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 07:57 AM

60 desperate posts by Trump yesterday to reenergize the Qanon to wipe out liberals is where Donald is today. He is hoping the naieve and psychopaths will come to his defense with violence.

Fascist thugs do what they do but I believe their organization is not organized enough to stay hydrated.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 07:52 PM

So far Trump's legal team has been a real amateur hour.
None of his 9 excuses hold water so far, at least not legally.
In search of a reasonable alibi, like any Godfather, Trump still has plenty of pattsies to pin it on. Starting with Eric and ending with Melania.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Sep 22 - 10:22 PM

He is talking his way into an indictment. The talking heads figure that Garland won't be able to do anything but charge Trump with a crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 08:13 AM

AMERICA MUST CHOOSE
Biden delivered his semi-fascism of the MAGA Republicans speech.
At least he half admitted the nazi wannabees.
51% of the right is condoning civil war rhetoric and 39% of Democrats are using the civil war language for different reasons.

Almost a hundred years ago the US had a similar choice. FDR had his insurrection. If Charles Lindburg had been President we would be a fascist country or worse. FDR finessed the country during the Nazi rallies at Madison Square Garden days.

We have a Republic today if we can keep it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 12:33 PM

For Republicans who are not full throated MAGA white nationalists or Religous folks who almost make Trump Christ like, lies are still in their head. Thats over 50% Republicans who will vote for Trump.
Combine them with new Trump officials who control voting in their state there is an uncertainty principle at work.

The winner will be the result of united shared hatreds or united shared freedoms. I saw this danger coming for 20 years, but I don't know what the final result will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 09:00 PM

I really liked Biden's speech. I suspect there was a lot of thought put into it by the White House and the Dems. I think it is basically to put a challenge to the Trumpists, an invitation to the anti-Trump Reps, and a show of strength to the Independents.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 22 - 09:45 PM

To err is human, to forgive divine.
No I am not insane. The best solution is to prosecute Trump so he can not run again or hold office. THEN BIDEN PARDONS HIM.

Jailing Hitler just made him a martyr with a book deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 22 - 07:37 AM

https://www.adl.org/resources/press-release/new-adl-leaked-oath-keepers-membership-list-reveals-hundreds-current-former

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Sep 22 - 09:07 AM

"THEN BIDEN PARDONS HIM". Wtf kind of message would that send, we'd have to amend that crappy old pledge to conclude with "liberty and justice for some and definitely for the top 1%."
Anyhoo, the old flim flam man got his own judge to delay the criminal side of the Mar a Lago investigation til gawd knows when.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Sep 22 - 09:39 AM

Depending on how it is done it would send 2 messages. One would make it clear to the right that Trump would escape a twenty year sentence based on health reasons by a compassionate act of a Democratic President.
Two, it would send a message to the left that those who were willing to lie cheat and insurrect were all harmed by loss of some kind including homes and sanity due to excesses of a creeping oligarchy.

The extreme left of the 1950s to 60's had the basic same complaints as the extreme right of the 60's to today except that the right has a constant 20% white nationalist agenda.

The left was enraged by COINTELPRO and surveillance of the FBI just as the right complains about the FBI today. Clear government lies enraged both extremes. Distrust of justice is shared.

What you begin to realize is that the extreme left and right have switched places in society. One was radical hippie and one is Qanon whacky.

So my idea of a pardon could placate the right and the left extremes as long as the guardrails of law remains intact. You may be correct that it would reinforce the concept of an Imperial Presidency but it is still preferred over a civil war, as laws address the problems of oligarchy and wealth distribution.

Disagree if you like but realize an actual living wage would go a long way to solving our problems and making billionaires/corporations pay taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Sep 22 - 09:52 AM

Blah, blah blah, your playing right into the politics of fear that has made trump possible. As the saying goes, better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Sep 22 - 11:51 PM

One of his appointed judges is slowing things down, but the Justice Department has given her a Thursday deadline to fix her first nonsensical ruling regarding what the DOJ may work with (he never could have owned these government documents to have them be his property now or returned later).

They need to get another warrant to search both Bedminster and the New York apartment.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Sep 22 - 12:54 PM

There is a speculative piece about an apparently unscheduled flight by Trump to Washington, D.C. this weekend. The source of this isn't particularly renown in the world of news media, but it's a starting place for the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Sep 22 - 02:48 PM

I found this on Quora and am posting it here without permission.
Lest we forget-

Lara Trump keeps saying, her father-in-law was working 24/7 for the American people.

She is a lying grifter, she helped her husband steal money from kids with cancer and funneled 2 million from a dog rescue charity to Trump properties.

When Trump wasn't watching TV, throwing tantrums, tweeting insanity, sending love letters to Kim and Putin, abusing his staff, extorting foreign leaders, or playing golf, he was working to fill his own pockets. He never gave a damn about the American people.

He was "working the American people" not "working for."

I'll be so happy when the entire Trump family is a distant memory.

Every one of them is a lying, cheating, stealing, treasonous low-life grifter.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 22 - 12:55 PM

Such are Nazi's, who want to remove or kill their enemy which is usually the rule of law.

Barak Hussien Obama won the Nobel Peace prize after 9 months in office.
He won for not being George W Bush.

Trump won the approval of his fascist base but Joe Robinette Biden won the Presidency for not being Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Sep 22 - 04:16 AM

Bit of a stitch-up on the Special Master front or what?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Sep 22 - 07:01 AM

The new trump judge ruled that Trump is above the law and deserves special treatment. She also said who knows if documents are really secret? She will probably be overruled in a week.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Sep 22 - 01:22 PM

Proud Boys memo reveals meticulous planning for ‘street-level violence’

Document of 23 pages shows the lengths to which the far-right group goes to prepare for potentially violent encounters and exposes the militaristic structure and language it has adopted

The document is so dowdy and formal it resembles the annual minutes of a society of tax accountants. Its index lists sections on “objectives” and “rules of engagement” and carries an “addendum” that provides recommendations for hotels and parking.

On the cover, two words give a clue to the notoriety of the group that produced it: “MAGA” and “WARNING”. That and the date: 5 January 2021, the day before the US Capitol attack.

What goes unsaid on the cover and is barely mentioned throughout the 23 pages is that this is the work of one of the most violent political gangs in America, the far-right street fighters told by Donald Trump to “stand back and stand by”: the Proud Boys.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Sep 22 - 04:41 PM

They also had a waiting boat to take weapons across the Potomac river to arm more people.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 07:50 AM

The Trump salute is the same as Hitler's nzzi salute except one must extend one index finger.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 10:43 AM

They claim it's an "old Christian salute" pointing toward heaven.

On top of that, here's a 300-page book that argues Trump is Christ:

https://www.amazon.com/President-Donald-Trump-Son-Man/dp/1977249752

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 22 - 02:38 PM

Donnie is now wearing a Qanon pin and playing the Q anon theme song.
Like Alquida I can not spell Qanon.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Sep 22 - 10:45 AM

The "Special Master" seems disinclined to let Donald and his chorus get away with the shit they've tried to pull. He doesn't want to see the classified documents, and said so when Trump's team asked the judge to nudge along the process so they could see them. The judge indicates that anyone should see those documents on a "need to know" basis and the Trump team has no need to see them. Or does the civilian who stole them in the first place.

They chose a former FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court) judge for their special master. It has been pointed out that whoever on Trump's team named this guy (was it because he's from Brooklyn?) is probably out of favor at this point. Best part of the day was when the judge told them they couldn't have their cake and eat it too. If they want the documents returned they have to show which are declassified, and even if they do, they're still property of the govt. This civil suit isn't helping The Donald.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Sep 22 - 12:16 PM

The doo doo deepens for the Donald and his litter of rats.

CNN

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 06:50 AM

Bribing or compromising the guards is a criminal's usual modus operendi. It works for armored truck robberies to Wall Street mortgage bundling schemes. Thomas Registry was the Security Guard for Wall St.
It is what Trump did in NYC. In many cases he didn't bother with bribes or gifts and just lied.

He also used the Force like Darth Vader to telepathically declassify secret documents.

He has now declared his secret identity to be the real Q Anon.
He said, "stand back and stand by Q Anon, the storm is coming".

Shit storms work because people feel emboldened and anonymous in a like-minded crowd.

Subject: RE: BS:The Evil Empire Strikes Back
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 07:35 AM

SATAN HIMSELF RESURRECTED ROY COHN AND HAS PUT HIM ON LOAN TO TRUMP !
Garland and the JD moaned "Why has God forsaken us and has given Trump everything he wants"?
Satan said, "because God believes in fake news too, how do you think he became God"?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 07:43 AM

The hits keep coming for the old flim flam man. An appeals court rebuked his personal judge, Aileen Cannon, yesterday and allowed the DOJ access to the Mar a Lago docs.
NPR
The Jan. 6 House committee starts up again next week and distinguished nutbag, Ginni Thomas will talk to them.
I'm still not convinced that we'll ever see him styling an orange jump suit though, the old bastard is slippery as a frog and always insulates himself from culpability with a phalanx of fall guys, some of whom could include members of his rotten progeny.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 09:43 AM

I see the orange one is now claiming that had he have still been in power he would have had a better seat at the Queen's funeral than Biden did. Do some people still believe his nonsense?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 10:38 AM

When condolences were offered to the UK when we first learned of Elizabeth's death, various former presidents were heard offering their personal condolences and leaving it there. Trump tried to offer them for his family and for the American people. Like he was entitled to speak for all here. Biden offered his own magnanimous remarks that covered the American people and no one said anything about Trump's attempt.

The Attorney General of New York isn't charging Trump with a crime, but she has enough evidence of his wrong-doing to start a civil suit asking for redress. $250 million. And forwarded on the evidence to the DOJ and the IRS to add to what they already have. She used a 200-page report to do it.

Every time something like this happens (the search, now the suit) it seems to have larger ramifications than the last big event. We are all waiting for the other shoe to drop and the indictment to be filed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 11:41 AM

Yeah, AG James suit was a civil one but as the CNN article stated- "James said she believes state and criminal laws may have been violated and referred the matter to the US attorney’s office for the Southern District of New York and the Internal Revenue Service."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 11:56 AM

I've followed this little financial newsletter for a while. They're usually off on topics that major media ignore, but they're on this one today also: NYS Attorney General Documents a Decade of “Staggering” Fraud by Donald Trump, the Man Allowed to Run the U.S. Government from 2017 to 2020

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 12:50 PM

Dave, all sorts of people believe in the orange Cheeto.
I met a senior lady at the drug store that even believes the IRS was dispatching armed troops. Militias believe, Q Anon believes and the strangely religious right believes. 4 out of 5 insurrectionists prefer Donald Trump over other leading criminals.

Even if the downtrodden know better, they know they have a better shot of a power position with a stupid tyrant than an educated obedient elected public servant.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Sep 22 - 08:47 PM

But seriously the structures of our civilized lives fall apart so easily. There is no bottom to what people are willing to do to one another. Bannon would happily embark upon the interrupted journey of Himmler.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Sep 22 - 07:10 AM

34% approval of DJT.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Sep 22 - 10:29 AM

Now Donny is claiming (in a FOX interview) he can just think about it and the documents are de-classified. That's his Jedi trick that is gaining traction now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 22 - 01:41 PM

No, its the dark side Vader trick.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 04:53 PM

With a neo-fascist Republican House, the near election could be the last democratic election in the US for the foreseeable future.
Constitution crises could be made weekly.
Remember they did not have the House for their last attempted decertification of the popular vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 05:58 PM

Your Republican house may harbour a number of undesirable traits, but it is decidedly not neofascist.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 08:36 PM

As if you know

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 08:53 PM

You yanks often seem to think that we don't get the news here like you do. Well we do, and, who knows, our outlets could be even better than yours. If you think that your House is neofascist, well all I can conclude is that you're reading the wrong paper.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 09:41 PM

That's really pretty offensive, Steve, and you're treading into territory that is over your head. Telling us that we don't understand our own news sources and YOU understand them better?

Don is correct on this. Trump doesn't understand what neo-fascist means, but all of the tendencies support his wish to be a dictator or a king and to keep getting richer, so he positioned his people to take advantage of the GOP misbehavior. And he's promoting more of them to get into office.

Neo-fascism is a post-World War II far-right ideology that includes significant elements of fascism. Neo-fascism usually includes ultranationalism, racial supremacy, populism, authoritarianism, nativism, xenophobia, and anti-immigration sentiment, as well as opposition to liberal democracy, social democracy, parliamentarianism, liberalism, Marxism, neoliberalism,[1] communism, and socialism.[2] As with classical fascism, it proposes a Third Position as an alternative to market capitalism.[3]

The House and Senate are trying to pass laws now that update an 1800's law regarding certifying elections. If McCarthy comes into the Speaker's office he could refuse to certify an election of a Democrat who wins in 2024.

Meanwhile, the January 6 Committee will hold another hearing on Wednesday, Sept. 28 at noon Central Time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 07:15 AM

Our news says the Pound Sterling has dropped 1/7th since your new PM took office. They are also on Italy watch with the election of a right wing leader that has spoken glowingly of Musllini and Putin.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 08:14 AM

We are not out of the woods yet. Trump is backed into a corner of having to run for President to seek protection from the Republican House.
His tools of hate and fear will likely become more strident.
The unknown factors can possibly throw events his way.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 08:16 AM

It's pretty offensive to make the oft-repeated claim that people outside the US can't read good sources of news and be up to speed on what's happening in your country. It's a long time since we foreigners had to rely on two-day-old copies of the Washington Post. You would do well to read what I said properly before you do the old knee-jerk. I did not say that I understand your news better than you. I did say that we have news outlets that in some cases might be even better than yours. Even you resort to the Guardian and BBC at times. As for over my head, well I don't know how you vote, or if you vote, but I do know that seventy or eighty million of your countrymen voted in a way that showed that your politics is way over their head. And comments about your House being a House of white supremacists or neofascists is simply scaremongering nonsense that betrays the resort to rather poor news sources. We are all in this global village together now.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 09:28 AM

Whataboutism doesn't win an argument, Steve. Logical fallacies come into play when you can't make your case. Our news sources are just fine, they are many and varied, and yes, they include Guardian, BBC, CBC, and Al Jazzera. How many voted for whom is a matter for both or our nations to be concerned about. If I were you, I'd be trying to find a way to fix that whole Brexit mess. Putin had a hand in pushing that vote to the finish line (just has he had a hand in meddling and even funding the Trump campaigns.)

Don, you're correct - Trump thinks that if he's running for president that protects him from prosecution. I *think* that he doesn't want to give up his current status quite yet because it gives him a lot more wiggle room to spend the dollars he gets as donations. Once he's a candidate the rules change (meaning he has to work harder to not follow them). He still wants to get donations from the suckers who still want to send them. For him it's #FreeMoney.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 11:45 AM

147 Republicans Voted to Overturn Biden's Election Result
There is a spectrum of neo fascist Congress people From Greene to Cruz.
These folks are neo fascists in my book.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 11:50 AM

Well you misrepresented what I said, which was quite annoying, actually, and you have so far failed to backtrack on that. You'll find very few people posting here who wouldn't love to have the brexit mess sorted. If you think Putin (who I hate at least as much as anyone else) turned the brexit vote, let's be having your evidence. Also, please apprise me as to which logical fallacy I committed in that post. At least I didn't carelessly misrepresent anyone, did I?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 12:20 PM

Misrepresentation can be both a civil wrong (a tort) or a criminal wrong. If the misrepresentation rises to the level of fraud, a defendant can face serious legal consequences. If you think you have a case, remember my lawyer is famous for getting court costs assessed as part of my restitution.
Showing up in Court is not required. Go for it.

Note how Trump misrepresents daily yet is never charged.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 01:14 PM

"I'd be trying to find a way to fix that whole Brexit mess."

Not so much a case of trying to fix it, more a case of trying to learn to live with it.

Sometimes people will vote for things that we don't agree with. Nowt as queer as folk.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 09:28 PM

Three more countries may have their own Brexit. I suppose you have seen the growth of fascism in Europe again.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 05:50 AM

Factions with aspirations toward fascism have always existed in Europe. The founding sentiment of the nascent EU (the Common Market, or "The Six") was to promote such strong cooperation among nations that fascism could never again take over. The ground rules are human rights, democracy and the rule of law. The current far-right faction in Italy, no matter what their fascistic inclinations are, either fully abide by those tenets or Italy leaves the EU. That is not going to happen. There are and there always will be fascist rumblings. It's beholden on democratic governments in Europe to understand where they come from. The easiest targets for fascists are the disaffected and the disadvantaged in society. If governments prioritise reducing the gap between rich and poor and making society more equal and fair, those rumblings will be all we'll get. I can't see it being any different in the US, but your first priority is to get off your arses and put Trump behind bars.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 06:29 AM

Why downplay the effect of the very same party of Musselini that is now in charge? Downplaying is what the fascists are doing, be it Italy, Hungary, and even in more countries where gains are being made by the right.
As usual* by contradicting me you are contradicting the truth, but this time with dire outcomes.

*You used to dismiss the danger of Trump when I have brought it up over the years. You are only making your opinion irrelevant in this matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 07:03 AM

Don't be so insulting.

The party which got most votes in Italy is NOT the "very same party of Mussolini," and it behoves you to desist from making false and uninformed statements like that. The Brothers Of Italy party can be regarded as a descendant of the Italian Social Movement, a party formed AFTER the war, AFTER the death of Mussolini. The fascistic sentiments of the Brothers are similar to those of the defunct ISM but the current context is wildly different, which is entirely the point. Any Italian government must live within the constraints of the EU and there is little appetite in Italy for leaving. Your claims about fascism in Europe and in your House are way too simplistic and off the mark, and what you do is what you always do, throw the baby out with the bathwater. No-one is saying that there isn't a problem and that we should be complacent, but, as I've said, the threat of the return of fascism in Europe has been here since the war, it will continue to rumble beneath the surface and we need to be vigilant - and to address what it is that makes far-right politics attractive to disaffected people. We can talk about that, but your ill-informed, throwaway nonsense is not a sensible part of the conversation.

As for Trump, I've dismissed no such thing. In fact, for the last couple of years I've got myself in trouble here several times for criticising the complacency and near-paralysis in your country over failing to do something about him (preferably to put him where he so patently belongs, behind bars). "You don't live here so you can't know..." I've expressed the opinion that his re-election would be a danger to the whole world. So please stop making things up.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 01:06 PM

Now you are lying. You called it an obsession and not important.
Also https://www.eurotopics.net/en/286727/meloni-campaign-with-controversial-flame-logo

I will not obey your constant commands to; Stop and Don't.
I do not consider another POV as an insult.

Your last post was more reasonably constructed but almost accepting of fascism because it always has been around. I have a sterner viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 01:16 PM

According to Rachel Maddow it is essentially the same party as Mussolini founded, just recently trying to act like they're like the rest of us to fool inattentive voters. Rachel played some recent clips from Meloni's recent speeches. She's one scary ass politician. And here in the US, some other scary ass politicians are celebrating the win. Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Ted Cruz under fire for celebrating Italian far-right victory
Italian politician Giorgia Meloni’s party traces its roots to the Second World War-era fascist movement founded by Benito Mussolini

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 01:25 PM

Christ on a bike.

Mussolini's party was banned after the war. It does not exist. Like the dead parrot, it is a late party. It has ceased to be. It is on its back, belly-up and has turned up its toes. It has shuffled off its mortal coil and gone to join the choir invisible. Unlike you, I check things out before I post. I don't always get it right but at least I try. Might I suggest that you try the approach!

Now then, this is supposed to be a Trump thread. I know how much you love him, so why do we not post to it unless Trump is somehow involved. Just a polite suggestion.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 01:42 PM

It is not essentially the same party. It is descended from a group of Mussolini supporters formed AFTER the war, AFTER Mussolini died and AFTER his party was banned. After over 75 years, right-wing alliances in Italy have evolved, merged, split and morphed many times. You can explore these things online very easily. She is a nasty piece of work all right but she is operating under constraints that were not there at the end of the war. Her election was undesirable, no doubt about it. She opposes abortion and gay marriage. So do millions of Christians all over Europe and the US. She is not minded to take Italy out of the EU, so she will have to embrace democracy and the rule of law. Totalitarianism of the kind that leads to fascism does not and cannot exist in ruling parties in the EU. That doesn't mean that there can't be bigots, populists and the rest, and there's no room for complacency, but equally there is no room for lazy labels either. She will have to be constructively engaged. That is a bottom line. Context is everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 02:20 PM

To me the Trump Italy tie has been Berlusconi, the media magnate and BS artist who prefigured Trump and the Trump era quite accurately. The assumption of a vapid center stage where non-nutritious froth takes the place of useful social ideas, and the public eats it up. Berlusconi got re-elected. DANGER WILL ROBINSON.

Independent of the 'good'ness or 'bad'ness of the politics, Trump does not have enough principles to be a Fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 02:26 PM

Virtually poetic and actually funny post.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 02:27 PM

I can see where you're coming from there.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 02:28 PM

Naturally, that was to robo. Keep well, old chap.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 05:12 PM

Trump doesn't, but he is the puppet for a lot of nasty folks in the GOP. I mentioned that before - he doesn't understand it, but as long as the party will let him get away with what he wants he doesn't care.

The original party in Italy may have been banned but the modern day party following in it's footsteps presents many of the same real hazards. You can scoff if you want, but we live in dangerous times for Democracy.

My day just opened up tomorrow as the January 6 committee has postponed the noon hearing since Hurricane Ian is hitting Florida about then. Well, if they must.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 05:47 PM

I've never felt better. I joined a new cult. The Constitution Boys.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 05:48 PM

You can scoff if you want, but we live in dangerous times for Democracy."

I am not scoffing, and I worry just as much as you do about threats to democracy. I just wish that you and Donuel would look at the complicated history of right-wing politics in Italy - which is hardly my fault! - before coming out with throwaway remarks. Ms Meloni is a very nasty piece of work, opposing immigration, abortion, gay marriage and anything LGBT, among other undesirable traits. But we analyse her in terms of today, not in terms of a murderous fascist who died nearly eighty years ago. And today's context, in which she will have to operate, is far removed from the context of eighty years ago. That's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 06:55 AM

Liz Truss is talking about moving the British embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, regarded as occupied territory, in a move that echoes what Trump did a few years ago. It would be an incendiary, disastrous move that would be seen as strongly anti-Palestinian. I can't help thinking that, in aligning herself with Trump, she's convinced herself that he's going to be the next president and that she wants to be onside with him. God help us.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 07:36 AM

Did anyone see her nasty side before her installment as PM?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 08:14 AM

Millions of us. Not just nasty, bloody incompetent. But we didn't choose her. She was chosen by a few tens of thousands of mostly old, mostly rich, mostly white, mostly male Tory party members.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 08:39 AM

In today's Guardian. Some slightly more nuanced and subtle thinking on Meloni than we've seen from some in this thread:

Italy’s Giorgia Meloni is no Mussolini – but she may be a Trump
[Lorenzo Marsili]

Hahah. The headline is provocative enough, but it's definitely an article worth a read. Have a google. Trying to make a link gets my knickers in a twist.

As I keep saying, she has to work within today's European context, which the old-time fascists didn't have to do. My initial feeling, looking at her activity over the last ten years or so, is that she could be a much cannier operator than we think (and certainly cannier then Trump). There is still nothing to like, I emphasise.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 12:26 PM

I shake my head at the idea that you think she is going to set aside all of the divisive stuff she said in past years and operate more rationally now. She said what she thought people needed to hear to elect her, but I doubt she has changed her opinion on any of those issues. Already you see her aligning herself with Trump. Trump who admires dictators. The GOP doesn't care a jot about what Trump thinks as long as he lets them undercut the government and Democracy.

In a churlish mood I am keeping my fingers crossed that Hurricane Ian manages to do some damage to Trump properties (his and the kids), even if it is out of the direct path. It's the least he deserves.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 06:24 AM

And when have I said I think she'll set aside the divisive stuff, Maggie? Do you say these things because you want me to be even worse than you already think I am? I've said several times that she opposes same-sex marriage, abortion, immigration and anything to do with LGBT. That's all anathema to me, as I think should be clear from my posts down the years.   I've reiterated more than once that there is nothing at all to commend her. I've said that her election was very unfortunate. I HAVE said that she is not a direct political descendant of Mussolini, much as you see that as inconvenient. I HAVE said that, despite her far-right predilections, she will have to work within the context of the tenets of the European Union, which means she has to abide by democracy, a fair justice system and the rule of law. So far, she has not made any move that suggests she wants Italy out of the EU (there are good reasons for that which I won't go into), and she does not want Italy to leave the euro (which is a change of mind). I did not point to that article because I agreed with everything in it. I pointed to it because I thought it had an interesting take on her political positioning. And comparing her with the most dangerous man on the planet (possibly with the exception of Putin) is hardly taking a softer view, is it? There are plenty of things in these threads you could be shaking your head at. I suggest that stuff I haven't said shouldn't be one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 09:28 AM

Steve deserves a full Presidential pardon. The incessant hair-splitting and the petty vengeful qualities of egotistical persuasions is something we all can be held guilty of to one degree or another.
Getting down into the weeds does sometimes reveal new information but I wouldn't want to live there constantly.
Straw men, what aboutism and killing the messenger are all things I don't like and I will continue to say so.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 09:47 AM

If she barks like a dog and wags her tail like a dog she's probably a dog.
I don't need to do DNA tests to see if she is a direct descendant of Mussolini.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 10:07 AM

I am reminded of the fair minded gentleman and Lord of the Manor who did not see himself as a Nazi sympathizer when he agreed to invite Hitler's representative to discuss 'mutual' interests.
The Butler however had second thoughts.

Why I have this reminder, is just my brain's rhetoric.
Seeking revenge on my brain would be strange.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 10:18 AM

The trouble is, you really have nothing to say. Do your homework. Read about her history. Read about the complex and convoluted history of the hard right in Italy since the war. Sure she is not a nice lady. I wish she would just evaporate. But try to be accurate and truthful about her via going to the trouble of properly FINDING OUT. And try, for a change, to see her in a modern context instead of rattling on about Mussolini all the time. Ms Meloni would rather you stopped the rattling on. And that is the one tiny, tiny, teensy thing, the only thing in the whole world, that I agree with her about.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 11:06 AM

She hopes we'll forget about what she vehemently expressed earlier in her life. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 11:34 AM

The best thing is to keep on reading about her. Be informed. She is at the head of a coalition, not the absolute leader. She is rowing back all the time on her previous extremist views. She will limit but not ban abortion, for example. She will not now try to take Italy out of the common currency. She is opposed to Putin and his depredations and has said so quite vehemently. She is saying a lot of things that her new political allies don't like her saying. Remember that almost all Italian administrations are short-lived.

Of course, a lot of this is talk and we needn't feel fooled. By her fruits shall we know her (we have no option, frankly). As for your duck, remember that there are many species thereof.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 01:23 PM

Perhaps I write with sound and fury saying nothing, but I doubt it very much since history rhymes with current events.

Will Meadows show up for the grand jury today?
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1125270278/a-grand-jury-in-georgia-is-expected-to-hear-from-ex-trump-official-meadows

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 03:40 PM

I would never use the word sound for any of your posts, fella.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 12:57 PM

It took C. Manson two years to turn 5 church going girls into savage murderers. Trump has had more than 4 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 01:37 PM

I listen to a Sunday morning gardening show on a local AM radio station that normally has the hot-head conservative and/or religious radio folks, interspersed with wealth advisors who want you to send them your money.

The news on the hour frequently plays clips of Trump, who just makes it up as he goes along. During a three-hour program I'll hear several of those pieces of BS and that's plenty for the week.

There's a Facebook satire page in the name of his niece Mary Trump that has some interesting memes to do with her ne'er-do-well uncle.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 07:16 AM

Senators; Tom Cotton, Rick Scott, Bob Beelzebub, Lawrence Lucifer,
Joseph Mephistopheles, and Samuel Satan are doubling their support for Hershel Walker.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 04:14 PM

The January 6 Committee next hearing is rescheduled for October 13, 2022 at 1pm Eastern.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 22 - 06:46 AM

The opioid epidemic may now be low enough to allow battle states to wake up and vote to regain lost freedoms. Trump states were the most addicted states. There is a historic analog of opioids by a different name in Hitler's Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Oct 22 - 06:01 PM

Polls show a dead heat between R & D. They are showing a; knife's edge, a tie, even steven. Polls have been way off lately.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Oct 22 - 10:29 PM

If you're a subscriber, or you haven't exhausted your four free The Atlantic articles a month, here is an article being discussed by the talking heads tonight: THE INEVITABLE INDICTMENT OF DONALD TRUMP
It’s clear to me that Merrick Garland will bring charges against Donald Trump. It’s just a matter of when.

By Franklin Foer

As an appellate judge, Merrick Garland was known for constructing narrow decisions that achieved consensus without creating extraneous controversy. As a government attorney, he was known for his zealous adherence to the letter of the law. As a person, he is a smaller-than-life figure, a dry conversationalist, studious listener, something close to the opposite of a raconteur. As a driver, his friends say, he is maddeningly slow and almost comically fastidious.

And as the nation’s chief law-enforcement officer, he is a hyper-prudential institutionalist who would like nothing more than to restore—quietly and deliberately—the Justice Department’s reputation for probity, process, and apolitical dispassion. Which is why it is so difficult for me to imagine him delighting in the choice he now faces: whether to become the first attorney general in American history to indict a former president.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 07:05 AM

I wonder how the impending death of Rupert Murdoch 91 will affect the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 07:24 AM

In 1940 almost forty people aligned with Hitler, were indicted for insurrection and were found guilty. Henry Ford and Charles Lindberg escaped prosecution.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 07:58 AM

Obviously I am really late to this conversation, but I think Trump and his sycophants are awful and I hope they all get scorpions in their underwear forever.

And remember, I live in TN where my governor and both Senators are Trump supporters. Yeehaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 12:24 PM

Nichole Wallace interviews Mary Trump on October 4, 2022.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 03:19 PM

Thirteen defendants stood trial for sedition in the "Brooklyn Boys" case.

Four got a mistrial when the jury couldn't reach a decision. The nine others were acquitted.

In other words, no convictions at all.

https://www.nytimes.com/1940/06/25/archives/nine-acquitted-of-sedition-plot-mistrial-is-declared-in-four-cases.html

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 05:32 PM

Trump loves Putin. If Trump were to catastrophically be reelected, he would throw Zelinskyy and Ukraine under the bus. Goodbye weapons and support.

The difference between Trump and Biden is obvious. Unfortunately McConnell spent a lot of time putting judges in office so a number of those judges are leaving Trump era policies in place after states sue to prevent Biden removing the cruel policies that Trump and his troll Stephen Miller put in effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 09:18 PM

Trump, Nov. 12, 2015:

"I’m good at war. I’ve had a lot of wars of my own. I’m really good at war. I love war, in a certain way. But only when we win."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Oct 22 - 10:17 PM

Oh what a general we might had if it wasn't for all those cursed bone spurs.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Oct 22 - 10:02 AM

Speculation is that Roger Stone will be one on the hot seat today. He had the Proud Boys with him as security on January 6. The next, possibly last, hearing starts at noon my time. I think online viewing will come from various sites. The News Hour is a good starting point, they usually stream hearings from the PBS site.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 22 - 02:37 PM

Thomas Jefferson, Bill Clinton, and now Donald Trump have been subpoenaed by Congress. I also saw a new video of Roger Stone declaring a Trump win before the election because possession was 9 tenths of the law 'fuck you we won and were here'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 22 - 06:34 PM

Ukraine is smaller than Texas. Taiwan is a bit bigger than Maryland.
In the Game of Wrongs by Empires, the US does not stand alone.

Naive is probably a bridge too far. A social media post is somewhat limited compared to the Library of Congress.
Omniscience is hard to come by, whoever you choose.


Trump is of two minds regarding testifying. He wants to stone wall and he wants a stage to lie. He probably thinks if the big lie loses steam, a bigger lie should do the trick.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Oct 22 - 08:01 PM

In the Game of Thrown stones, nuclear winter is coming according to Putin.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 12:13 AM

Game of Thrown Stones - good one!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 06:31 AM

Aww, without Sandman's post I sound bizarre.
Even thin skin doesn't let criticism in
to let self doubt to begin.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 12:33 PM

WASHINGTON, July 14 (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives passed a bill on Thursday paving the way for the defense budget to exceed $800 billion next year, authorizing $37 billion in spending on top of the record $773 billion proposed by President Joe Biden.
Biden spent more on defence than Trump, that is the truth. so Trumps actions and effects were That his budget was less than Biden as regards defence and foreign policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 12:41 PM

Biden is participating in defending Ukraine from Trump's friend Putin. It costs money. Trump was toying with Zelinskyy while trying to trap Hunter Biden in a campaign strategy to use against Joe, and in the process essentially telegraphed to Putin that he could do what he wanted as far as Ukraine was concerned. Take the entire nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 01:55 PM

Our Republican politicians have grown up with examples of winning elections they lost as in the case of George W Bush.
Mitch McConnel denied Garland a Supreme Court seat because an election was a year away but installed a Republican Justice 2 weeks before an election. Lieing and fighting have been a successful formula for them so I'm not surprised at the lock-step marching to Trump's premeditated tune.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 02:43 PM

trump is still floating a pretty heavy defense budget, criminal defense budget that is, trying to keep his sorry, corrupt, Putin-toadying ass out of jail.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 04:29 PM

Republicans like Bobert and Greene are claiming schools provide kitty litter to kids who identify as cats in order to hummiliate LGBT KIDS.
Of course there are those who believe it lock stock and barrel.
The truth is some schools do clean with kitty litter when active shooter drills take too long.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 15 Oct 22 - 07:11 AM

It's a good thing you're over there and not able to vote in our elections because you'd probably join trump's brain dead zombie army and support the most corrupt, incompetent, treasonous and dangerous president in our history.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 22 - 08:20 AM

Manufactured hate in the Alex Jones sphere concentrates pre existing fears and the feelings of betrayal in the poor folks who sacrifice for the American dream with time effort and money but end up with nothing. Lieing for profit works. PT Barnum said a sucker is born every minute. The real suckers don't want to identify as suckers and sometimes double down. They are already angry so why not double down with violence.
Lies about;
Pizza Gate, Sandy Hook, Hillary murders, the big lie...kitty litter, yet the truth is called fake news.
Taking advantage of the suckers who have been had is easy - there is a mob waiting for orders, this time from Trump. In 1930 it was someone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 22 - 08:51 AM

I feel like the eternal political outsider although I suspect I am among the majority. I was beaten multiple times in High Scool for saying that "one day we would do big business with China". Add up all my other obvious predictions and America has not been kind.
I am the father of a trans daughter and foresee her lifetime of outsidership.

Unless you are a narcicist, in a polarized America it feels like
"WE ARE ALL OUTSIDERS! in one way or another.

I bet even Elon Musk feels like an outsider.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Oct 22 - 10:57 AM

This is a thread about Trump and his hacks, it's not about a comparison between US presidents and what an Englishman living in Ireland thinks about them. That would be a different, probably very short thread.

Trump Responds to Jan. 6 Committee Subpoena

On Oct. 13, the House select committee to investigate the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol publicly voted to issue a subpoena to former President Trump seeking information about his involvement in the insurrection.

In response to the subpoena, Trump issued a letter to select committee Chairman Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) calling committee members “highly partisan political Hacks and Thugs whose sole function is to destroy the lives of many hard-working American Patriots, whose records in life have been unblemished until this point of attempted ruination” and called Congress’s Jan. 6 investigation a “Charade and Witch Hunt.” Trump then urged Thompson and other committee members to examine the “massive Election Fraud” that Trump insists took place during the 2020 presidential election.

Trump also defended his actions leading up to and during the Jan. 6 Capitol attack, which were a point of scrutiny at the Jan. 6 select committee hearing on Oct. 13. Trump claimed that the committee “willfully ignored” that he allegedly recommended and authorized thousands of troops to be deployed to the Capitol in the days before Jan. 6 because he “knew, just based on instinct and what [he] was hearing, that the crowd coming to listen to [his] speech, and various others, would be a very big one, far bigger than anyone thought possible.” He then blamed Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser (D) for the hours-long delay in the deployment of the National Guard to the Capitol during the Jan. 6 attack, arguing that he “did [his] job long ahead schedule” and that the “troops were ready to go.”

In closing, Trump lauded the “great American Patriots” who participated in the attack on the Capitol, and said that they “have had their lives ruined” by the committee.

Follow the link and you can see his entire 14-page diatribe called a letter.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Oct 22 - 11:43 AM

Newly released video shows that while the mob was attacking the Capitol, Pelosi (with Schumer) were demanding that the reluctant Secretary of the Army immediately send in the National Guard.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Oct 22 - 12:06 PM

Trumps folks had already thought of that response and put an order in place prohibiting the National Guard from being called to the Capitol. Another sign of the premeditation of the assault on the Capitol.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 22 - 03:15 PM

I have been delving into the issue of cults since I was 20. Trumpism is a cult and the Trumpist is the fundamental cult member.
It is traumatic to wake up and realize you were the jackass for a cult and decide to leave. Most people will not have the strength.

That is why the 9 prime time Televised investigations about the insurrection has actually persuaded more people to believe Trump.
It went up 4 percent. The stolen secrets at Mara Lago probably had a role in this mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Oct 22 - 05:13 PM

While I have posted over a hundred times how as a hypnotist I found how any person of any education or wealth is extremely vulnerable to cult manipulation, I will say it again and ask that you give the documentary 'The Vow' a view.

Mormons did it, Scientology did it and Keith almost did it too.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Oct 22 - 03:11 AM

Keith who?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 22 - 03:50 AM

Jeeee-zus! It’s like working with a nail in yer boot! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Oct 22 - 10:28 AM

Dave, in the US we had a cult called XIVM, commonly used to describe the personality cult of imprisoned racketeer and sex offender Keith Raniere.
Warning: branding women with his initials on their 'hoo haw' was a common practice.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 22 - 10:43 AM

Back to Trump, E. Jean Carroll is waging a battle on a front separate from the stolen government documents and the seditious planning of an assault on the Capitol or the New York State charges of cheating on the valuation of his property or the tampering with elections charge out of Georgia; she is accusing him of rape. And she's made more headway than other victims. Next week (Oct. 19) Trump has been forced by a judge to sit for a deposition. The judge isn't taking Trump's "let's delay this" shit.

Trump’s legal team has tried various legal tactics to delay the lawsuit and prevent him from being questioned by Carroll’s attorneys, but Judge Kaplan wrote that it was time to move forward, especially given the “advanced age” of Carroll, 78, and Trump, 76, and perhaps other witnesses.

“The defendant should not be permitted to run the clock out on plaintiff’s attempt to gain a remedy for what allegedly was a serious wrong,” he wrote.

Carroll’s lawsuit claims that Trump damaged her reputation in 2019 when he denied raping her. Trump’s legal team has been trying to squash the suit by arguing that the Republican was just doing his job as president when he denied the allegations, including when he dismissed his accuser as “not my type”.

That is a key question because if Trump was acting within the scope of his duties as a federal employee, the US government would become the defendant in the case.

The second US circuit court of appeals said in a split decision last month that Trump was a federal employee when he commented on Carroll’s claims. But it asked another court in Washington to decide whether Trump’s public statements occurred during the scope of his employment.

Kaplan, the judge, said Trump has repeatedly tried to delay the collection of evidence in the lawsuit.

“Given his conduct so far in this case, Mr Trump’s position regarding the burdens of discovery is inexcusable,” he wrote. “As this court previously has observed, Mr Trump has litigated this case since it began in 2019 with the effect and probably the purpose of delaying it.”

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Oct 22 - 10:53 AM

He got 120 years in prison for his Trump/Scientology hybrid cult. Trump cult is similar but he will probably get a month in jail.

NXIVM summary

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Oct 22 - 12:15 PM

Thanks Donuel

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 07:16 AM

Trump issues an overt threat against Jews. Similar to what he said to Mitch McConnel about having a death wish, now there is the threat against American Jews. "Con Yay" is going full tilt antisemetic this week as if he got Trump's memo.

There is no Trump threat against Catholics so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 12:05 PM

One has to wonder, as Putin turns on the heat on Kiev and Ukraine in general, if Trump has somehow telegraphed to Putin that he'll let him have his way if he's elected? Is anyone analyzing Trump's remarks about Ukraine, Syria, or Saudi Arabia? Speculation is that SA and Russia are decreasing oil production to raise gas prices in US to pressure Biden and please Trump - whose son-in-law Kushner goes to SA on occasion and who was given $2B recently.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 12:36 PM

What happens now that the committee have decided to subpoena the orange one?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 12:53 PM

Trumpists are amplifying the Trump threat by saying "we are going to Def Con 3 against the Jews" Quote: Mastriano. candidate in PA.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 12:59 PM

I can't find any reliable online sources for this remark.

One Tweeter claimed earlier this month that Kanye said it, but I find no confirmation.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 12:59 PM

Dave, Trump has not acknowledged the subpoena, Bannon is awaiting sentencing for his ignoring a subpoena.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 01:24 PM

The Kanye (now "Ye") quote got Kanye West kicked off of Twitter and Facebook or Instagram. That one is well documented. Trump has been tied to Ye on numerous occasions.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 01:40 PM

Silly me. I assumed he knew how to spell.

What he wrote was that he was "going death con 3 On Jewish People."

https://www.imdb.com/news/ni63785512

He also wrote "I actually can’t be Anti Semitic because black guys are actually Jew also."

"DEFCON 3" essentially means "increased alert."

But anyway he's def nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 02:01 PM

Kanye is an honorary member of the Gazpacho Police.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 02:48 PM

And Herschel Walker has the badge.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 04:36 PM

hehhahaha

Bannon got 6 months in jail and a 200K fine

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 05:48 PM

Well, I read it is a recommendation rather than definite but at least it seems a step in the right direction.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 06:08 PM

The official in-person sentencing is on another day but it's still jazz.
Some recommendations range from zero to four years but the one I told you about is kosher.
If I were to call myself an American Patriot it would sound virtually toxic due to the high praise that Trump has given white nationalists and Neo Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Oct 22 - 10:12 PM

The Justice Department recommends the higher sentencing for Bannon as you learn in the NPR story because he not only wasn't contrite about his action, he continually tried to make the process more difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Oct 22 - 07:41 AM

If one were to convert 260 lbs of fat into energy it would level Delaware.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Oct 22 - 08:08 AM

I lived in Delaware for 4 years, it's already pretty level.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Oct 22 - 08:30 AM

What DID Della wear?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Oct 22 - 08:32 AM

A New Jersey.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Oct 22 - 08:38 AM

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Oct 22 - 09:46 AM

What does Donald Trump think about dictators and autocrats? Well, they’re bad guys, he admits. But that’s not all. Let’s roll the video tape:

North Korea: You’ve got to give [Kim Jong-un] credit: how many young guys, he was like 26 or 25 when his father died….he goes in, he takes over, he’s the boss. It’s incredible. He wiped out the uncle, he wiped out this one, that one. This guy doesn’t play games and we can’t play games with him.

Russia: I’ll tell you what, if Putin likes me….If he says something positive, that’s a good thing, that’s not a bad thing. And: It is always a great honor to be so nicely complimented by a man so highly respected within his own country and beyond. And: You’re saying he killed people, I haven’t seen that. I don’t know that he has. Have you been able to prove that? And: He’s running his country, and at least he’s a leader. I think our country does plenty of killing also.

Iraq: Look at Iraq….[Saddam Hussein] would kill the terrorists immediately…. I’m not saying he was a nice guy, he was a horrible guy, but it was a lot better than it is right now.

China: When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength.

Egypt: Egypt is turning into a hot bed of radical Islam. The current protest is another coup attempt. We should never have abandoned Mubarak.

Syria and Libya: Assad is a bad man. Gadhafi was a bad man. Mubarak had a terrible human rights record. But they were assisting us — at least Gadhafi and Mubarak — in fighting radical Islamic terrorists.

Hungary: etc.

Trump sure does seem to admire anyone who can make the trains run on time, doesn’t he?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Oct 22 - 10:25 AM

Steve Bannon is sentenced on Friday. He is still pleading the filth.
jail time

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Oct 22 - 10:28 AM

"pleading the filth" :')

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Oct 22 - 03:05 PM

Dear Editor,
Everyone has their delusions regarding communication. I have lost the inspiration to contribute to what now amounts to a mousetrap of conversation. Change is certain so this angst may change. No doubt your decisions were difficult in maintaining a cosmopolitan overview while limiting ad hominem discord but there is no longer a sense of honesty or free speech. I enjoy cult-free freedom of thought like some people enjoy the freedom of what's for dinner with all its triumphs, plans and failures. A list of links to headlines is not my idea of communication.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Oct 22 - 12:01 AM

That deleted contribution and a couple of remarks were leftover from the thread that was trashed and closed. You attempted the move but bringing that ugly argument over here was overruled. Trump offers enough discord here, we don't need the rest of it. Come back when you're ready.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 08:30 AM

It's getting to the point where It's no fun anymore
I am weary
Sometimes it hurts so badly I must cry out loud
We are lonely
We've been had, we are mad, we are what we are
Trump makes it har ar ar ar ard

Remember what we've said and done and felt about each other
Thats our hist'ry
Please let the past remind us of what we have become
I am not dreaming
We've been had, we are mad, we are what we are
Trump makes it har ar ar ar ard
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

Tearing ourselves apart from what we held so dear
And I am crying
This does not mean we don't love each other that's forever
Yes and for always
We've been had, we are mad, we are what we are
Trump makes it hard

Something inside is telling me that Trump stole our secrets
Are you still listening?
Fear is the spear and guns are the mad man's answear
And we hate you
We've been had, we are mad, we are what we are
Trump makes it hard
And he makes it hard
And you make it hard
And we make it hard

Tuesday evening
Wednesday in the afternoon
What we had we have to lose
Thursday morning
Please be gone I'm tired of you
What we had we got to lose
Can I tell it like it is? (Help me am worried)
We've been had we are mad we are what we are.
Hate makes it har ar ar ar ard

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 08:35 AM

Crosby, Stills and Noodge?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 05:39 PM

Crosby Hope and Cash
Suite Judgy Blue Eyes

I can't do the whole thing since I don't speak Spanish.
I can almost repeat it;

It's getting to the point where It's no fun anymore
I am weary
Sometimes it hurts so badly I must cry out loud
We are lonely
We've been had, we are mad, we are what we are
Hate makes it har ar ar ar ard

Remember what we've said and done and felt about each other
Thats our hist'ry
Please let the past remind us of what we have become
I am not dreaming
We've been had, we are mad, we are what we are
Trump makes it har ar ar ar ard
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

Tearing ourselves apart from what we held so dear
And I am crying
This does not mean we don't love each other that's forever
Yes and for always
We've been had, we are mad, we are what we are
Hate makes it hard

Something inside is telling me that Trump stole our secrets
Are you still listening?
Fear is the spear and guns are the madman's answer
And we hate you
We've been had, we are mad, we are what we are
Hate makes it hard
And he makes it hard
And you make it hard
And we make it hard

Tuesday evening
Wednesday in the afternoon
What we had we have to lose
Thursday morning
Please be gone I'm tired of you
We're losing the right to choose
Can I tell it like it is? (Help me I am worried)

We've been had we are mad we are what we are.
Hate makes it harrrrrrd


Donuel parody

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 09:30 PM

Throughout the 1930s, Charles E. Coughlin was one of the most influential men in the United States. He was a Catholic priest in the metro Detroit area who became politically active. Foreshadowing modern talk radio and televangelism, Coughlin led radio broadcasts that reached tens of millions listeners. He broadcast religious services with political overtones and expressed antisemitic views. He also voiced pro-Nazi opinions that made him a person of interest for the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in 1942.

Today we have General Flynn. Flynn is “one of the most dangerous individuals in America today,” said Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a historian and expert on authoritarianism and fascism who wrote the book “Strongmen: Mussolini to the Present.” “He is spearheading the attack on our democracy, which is coming from many quarters, and he is affiliated with many of these sectors, from the military to Christian nationalism to election denial to extremist groups,” she said. “All of this comes together to present a very live threat. And he’s at the center.”

Flynn has, with mixed success, supported like-minded candidates around the country, and has said his immediate goal is to influence this year’s elections. In Sarasota, Florida, where he lives, he has worked in concert with members of the extremist group the Proud Boys to influence local politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Oct 22 - 03:58 PM

I'm not worried about top secret documents that Trump got his grubby hands on because he is not in the loop of the really top secret docs.
No President is. No chiefs of staff or most project managers.

It is a shame since we have lost a century by hiding the truth that makes many of our current energy plants and vehicles obsolete. Not to mention fouling the planet with hydrocarbons. Steven Greer

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 08:26 AM

What does it mean for him now that the subpeona has been served? It was obviously a good move serving it after Bannon's was punished for ignoring his as that gives Trump the right message. Can he still get out of it though? What will happen if and when he attends the hearing?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 11:37 AM

He sounds like he wants to show up.
He showed up last month for a NY subpoena.

Ms Cheney said today "We will keep him on a tight leash".
I am hoping for tight handcuffs for very small hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 02:01 PM

He was in Texas last night bemoaning all of the "millions of criminals" the Biden administration wants to let across the borders. He'll say anything to wring donor money out of his fans.

And as far as the subpoena, I'm sure his response will be the uniform "run out the clock" approach.

In the E. Jean Carroll testimony that he had to give last week,
Invoking the Fifth won't help Trump this time
Taxpayers should not foot the bill for Trump’s defending himself against the charge that he defamed his accuser.

In response to the journalist E. Jean Carroll’s claim that Donald Trump raped her in the 1990s, the then-president said in January 2019 that “she’s not my type” and that “it never happened.” That denial, of course, suggests that being Trump’s “type” governs whether he would rape that person. Carroll sued Trump for defamation, and he has reached the point where he is out of good options, at least good legal options. The former president has been ordered to sit Wednesday for a deposition (yes, that means under oath) in a defamation case that centers on his denial of Carroll’s allegation. As I’ll explain later, this is one time where pleading the Fifth Amendment won’t help him much.

"The legal questions here are whether Trump, as president, was considered to be an “employee” of the government and whether he was acting within the “scope” of that employment when he said that Carroll is not his type and that he didn’t rape her."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 02:26 PM

I think he'll go for it on fourth down...then he'll run out the clock if he gets the ball back after the election.

The investigation commitee will be toast by then.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 03:32 PM

Incidentally when the CIA wants to defame a whistleblower they call it DDT. (Defame, Distract & Trash)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 05:11 PM

Well, we have just dodged the bullet here in the UK. Good luck with your blonde buffoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 06:25 PM

Well you say that, Dave, but we are now getting smoothie Sunak who is almost certainly going to settle things down for the Tories. Time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 22 - 07:34 AM

Trump is now annoited as the son of God. On the bright side he is at least mortal now. White Christian Nationalists could not be more proud.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Oct 22 - 11:28 AM

”Trump is now annoited as the son of God.”

One of the best laughs I had at the time of Biden’s victory over Trump was a piece on BBC News in which a fat, red-faced, eyes-bulging, armed-to-the-teeth, ‘Christian’ Trump-supporter bawled into the interviewer’s microphone that Trump was “Aaaaww-dained baa-aah Aaaawwl-maaagh-deee Gaaaa-aahd!”.

Do those shit-for-brains really, truly believe the horse-shit they spout?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 22 - 11:43 AM

The American education system has taken the various Civics and Government and Social Studies classes out of most curricula - to the detriment of the voting public.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Oct 22 - 02:58 PM

In the era of Father Coughlin, I believe his communications and opinion making status was far above that of the late Limbaugh. He was on the air and in the popular and prestigious magazines for a long time. Plus the Catholic church was far stronger and more antisemitic prior to World War 2 and the Second Vatican Council. The US also had strong antidemocratic (populist) leaders such as Huey Long. And Democracy was doing even worse than it is now and racism more endemic. We had popular heroes such as Charles Lindbergh practically rooting for the other side.

On the other hand, we did not have the unbelievable speed, spread, and flexibility of the internet and its abuse by everyone from major governments to weird nerds.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 06:29 AM

Today the religious right is told what to believe by General Flynn who has always had a silent majority mindset. He will scream anything for his god and himself.

I am hoping the polls are reflecting the noisy whacky right.
The quiet ones want to hide their true opinion.
I feel for Fetterman since I share some of his speech quirks.
So what if he needs the equivalent of a hearing aid.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 07:13 AM

We are all separated by the history we are taught despite the similarity of our DNA. Joe Offer was taught that Charles Lindburg was a great patriot and American hero. When I introduced him to the history I was taught/learned, I became the 'other' in his mind.
Lindburg was wined and dined by Hitler's leadership and offered a free mansion in Germany. Only Lindburg's wife got him to not take the bait but still he admired the Nazis big time.
It is obvious that Stilly and I share the same history of which Joe has said, "I do not understand". I should not be surprised Robo knows his history too.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 08:22 AM

Charles Lindbergh's (note spelling) anti-Semitism and prewar sympathy for the Nazis has become fairly common knowledge.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 09:18 AM

I like the Jewish spelling but I rarely spell a person's name correctly or haven't you noticed.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 09:30 AM

Doesn't do much for your credibility as a self-appointed Mudcat educator.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 09:54 AM

Spelling is overrated. Put a dyslexic at a keyboard and you'll discover all sorts of ways of spelling words that are still understandable. (raises hand - except for the red squiggly line under many of my posts, there'd be a lot more typos coming through.)

It's pretty amazing what was known during Lindberg's lifetime that was soon covered over. I never heard about his Nazi leaning views until years after I was out of school. (No squiggly lines under my spelling, though I can cut and paste Lindbergh from another post.)

There's a news clip from CNN's Jake Tapper interviewing Bob Woodward in the news this morning discussing pandemic failures and other topics from when Trump was in office, but the day is young yet. Trump manages to do or say something outrageous pretty much every day these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 10:19 AM

I also take advantage of the squiggly lines but I find it amusing that someone who has claimed that he's teaching the Mudcat populace history can't even get close to the spelling of the name of his subject.

I didn't know much of Lindbergh's dalliance with the 3rd Reich until I was well into adulthood, we were pretty much fed the "Lone Eagle" story in school. The man did quietly redeem himself somewhat by flying combat missions as a civilian in the Pacific Theater during the war.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 11:36 AM

I think it's polite to review your posts before sending. It's particularly polite to spell names correctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 11:49 AM

You have to first know you misspelled it to correct it. Spelling and grammar are a form of manners, according to one of my favorite English professors. When we manage to get the meaning across the basic work of language has been accomplished. In most instances I try to use the correct spelling, but some words and names are so commonplace in one particular form that the common form is what is written, regardless of some idiosyncrasy of the actual spelling. You will recall your umbrage over Moseley/Mosely. Big deal (not), you knew who I was talking about.

Going through therapy for dealing with dyslexia as a kid meant having spelling rules hammered into my head. The rules don't dictate how to spell the anomalous names. Let's move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 11:57 AM

I did correct my "poison chalice" yesterday. Trivial, eh? Your spelling always seems immaculate to me. I agree that we shouldn't make a Big Thing of this, but I think we should be very careful to get names right even if we think that the named person doesn't deserve our courtesy. But this isn't in the same league as the need to get rid of Trump, that's for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 12:35 PM

The reason we didn't hear about Lindbergh's politics in school is that he was a minor historical personage who only figures in history books because he was first to fly the Atlantic alone and nonstop.

The only reasons to mention him are that it was a big deal in 1927 and he represented American knowhow and daring.

I don't think it's worth anyone's time to tell schoolkids, "But he later admired Hitler as a national leader."

Even in a college course on the Depression, it's no more than disappointing (though possibly disillusioning) trivia.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 03:54 PM

You have to be masculine to be immasculated but the immaculated are usually gay. I've known a UK chap to never be polite and others who are consistently polite.
Since we're not talking Trump anymore but going ad hominem since a recent gillyswipe,
I noticed an opal that has the fractal fantasy of the clouds of Jupiter as seen from its orbit. Most opals are like nature's original acrylic pour art where colors seep into cracks in ancient sediment.
Highly magnified, opal art is fractally pleasing to the mind.
This has been a week of opal photography.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 04:06 PM

Remember Hope Hicks? She is talking to the committee today.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Oct 22 - 04:41 PM

Re: Lindbergh he qualified in his own time as an aviation hero and he could definitely write. He married well, his wife Anne Morrow was personality wise worth two of him, read her book as well as his. I've seen part of her recorded interviews and I believe she shared some of his racist views pre-War. I believe she may well have lived to learn about his unpublicized German family. Got to keep those good Northern European genes in the mix.

During WW2 he was not allowed to serve in combat, but he consulted for the Army Air Force in developing guidelines for extending the range of military aircraft for long water overflights, something we can all agree he knew about.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Oct 22 - 07:41 AM

Declaring that Democrats will have done a great job if they hold their current Senate margin, but a terrible job with a net loss of one seat (or lose four House seats vs. five) would seem like over-interpretation. If America has Gillymors I will accept democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Oct 22 - 08:06 AM

Lower case g please.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Oct 22 - 08:53 AM

I'm no advocate for Lindbergh but there are a number of sources that cite 50 combat missions he flew as a civilian against the Japanese. Now back to trump (barf).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Oct 22 - 11:14 AM

Bob Woodward has a new audio book out, and it is again scaring the bejeezus out of people.

In a taped conversation with Bob Woodward, Donald Trump boasted about US nuclear weapons development.

“I have built a weapon system that nobody’s ever had in this country before,” the then president told the veteran Washington Post reporter. “We have stuff that you haven’t even seen or heard about. We have stuff that Putin and Xi have never heard about before.”

The recording aired on CNN on Tuesday, the day Woodward published The Trump Tapes, an audio book of 20 interviews carried out as Woodward wrote three bestsellers on the Trump presidency, Fear, Rage and Peril (the last co-written with Robert Costa).

Woodward said he looked into Trump’s claim and was told by an official it was true.

“Xi [Jinping] and [Vladimir] Putin would not know about” the weapons system, Woodward said. “But why is Trump bragging about it?”

Trump’s cavalier attitude to nuclear issues has landed him in hot water elsewhere. Documents dealing with nuclear weapons policy were reportedly among classified material recovered from Mar-a-Lago, Trump’s Florida home, by the FBI in August.

Trump bragged about new US nuclear weapons, Woodward tape shows

Maybe this is a strategic news release, intended to scare Putin into backing off in Ukraine? Not likely, but maybe something good can come from Trump's braggadocio stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 22 - 10:54 AM

I had a grand overview epiphany that the Republicans have had hundreds of ideas from their think tanks to dismantle the NEW DEAL. Any one or two of those ideas to turn back the clock would have worked, BUT in an embarrassment of riches, the Republicans will try all the hundreds of their kooky ideas to gain and keep power all at once. OVERKILL!

We will no longer be a nation of E Pluribus Unum but instead a country of; Money Talks-drives-sails-flys, but we the people walk.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 22 - 11:39 AM

eh, thats just the coffee talkin

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 08:39 AM

We all assume that what we say is self-explanatory but it's not.
We have to tell a better story about our nation, heritage, and principles than our divisive opponents. We have to saturate every media with a positive story than let the hateful own the internet and other media with lies. We have to fight fire with water. Lots of water.
Facts are never enough, we have to instill deeply held feelings as we tell our story.
The Democratic party is slowly catching on.
The Republican playbook is basically 'divide and conquer'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 09:33 AM

We can go a long way towards making our posts self-explanatory if we express ourselves in clear, simple English and try to avoid over-clever attempts at being as obscure as possible. Language is about the art of communication, and obscurantism and strange, meandering attempts at "poetry" merely serve to pervert that. Anyway...

From the Guardian today:

"Fears are growing that Jair Bolsonaro could refuse to accept defeat in Brazil’s crunch election this Sunday after his politician son claimed Brazil’s far-right president was the victim of “the greatest electoral fraud ever seen” amid unproven allegations of foul play.

The assertion from the president’s senator son, Flávio Bolsonaro, was almost identical to language used by Donald Trump – Bolsonaro’s most prominent international backer – after he lost the 2020 US election to Joe Biden."

Looks like another potential attack on democracy coming up. We all need to wake up.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 12:26 PM

I agree with my curmudgeon and troll.

Mask denialism, vaccine denialism, election denialism, science denialism, climate denialism even communication denialism are destroying rational reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 12:55 PM

Here comes more violence* again

Last night an assassin broke into the San Francisco home of the Pelosi's yelling where's Nancy and in her absence violently attacked her husband with a hammer. He is hospitalized.

*MLK, the Kennedy brothers, Lincoln, Jan. 6th etc.

With 1 in three election workers quitting due to violent intimidation the template is struck to jeopardize elections with replacement thugs.

For 25 years I have warned of the descent into pandemics and climate change and civil war that adjudicates with the gun, sword and hammer instead of laws.

If you really think that all your problems are because of somebody else here is the good news, you can do something.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 01:07 PM

Thanks for making my case. By the way, I'll have to think about whether science denialism is just as bad, though in a different way, as your science perversion.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 01:08 PM

For Steve: forgive my sticky comma key and fyi Nancy Pelosi Democrat is the speaker of the house and third in line for the Presidency of the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 01:35 PM

Water for Steve's fire:
I most often speculate on the direction of future science because the past believed its mistakes until new insights were discovered.
Instead of attacking the messenger,
you are allowed to ask questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 03:49 PM

The perp is a 42 year old OG conspiracist
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/28/politics/paul-pelosi-attack

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 07:21 PM

Slightly off-topic, but Lula has just beaten Bolsonaro by the slimmest of margins. It remains to be seen whether Bolsonaro will cry fraud and stolen election, Trump-style (they're bedfellows). Bolsonaro's son has already said as much, several days ago, in what might be called a preemptive strike...

This is actually incredibly important for the whole planet. The next 24 hours are going to be interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 08:24 PM

I heard about that election just now and had the same thought. Trump really has poisoned democracy around the world with his self-centered sociopathic behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 09:04 PM

Lula In his speech this evening: President-elect Lula invited international cooperation to preserve the Amazon rainforest and said he will seek fair global trade rather than trade deals that “condemn our country to be an eternal exporter of raw materials.” [Guardian]

Let's hope that he can achieve these things.

And America (I really don't want to be provocative here...): OK, he's a leftie. But he's a leftie who has done good things and who could do more good things. Please, CIA, do not undermine him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 11:45 PM

Why would they undermine him? Trump might, and he's not the left.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 05:09 AM

Well I was a bit harsh there. I was thinking of the historical serial undermining by the CIA of left-wing regimes in times gone by, and admittedly that isn't going to happen under Biden. But Bolsonaro and Trump are bedfellows, and therein lies the danger if Trump returns. That danger threatens the whole planet, not only via the dismantling of democracy but also via destruction of the Amazon.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 08:03 AM

For generations, the credo of the CIA was "Perception IS Reality"
Trump and the violent right have adopted and nurtured this mind-control credo for themselves. While there is new thinking in the CIA and past failures like missing the dissolution of the USSR have taught new lessons, old beliefs remain.

Rupert, Donald, and Elon celebrate their ability to divide for their own purpose, to prosper by their message and pay less tax.
I include Elon because of his wealth and his first tweet on his Twitter saying John Pelosi was in his underwear with his homosexual lover and was having a domestic quarrel. Despite deleting his tweet the echo chamber expanded the divisive lie.

My whistle blower sacrifices on this Mudpuddle consist of conservative forces here sending the FBI to my house over claims of inciting violence and the efforts of Steve and cooperative mods to delete my message. When good people go silent for whatever reason, bad things happen to good countries. Bad things are happening and the wild pendulum of events is in free fall as denialism and what aboutism lies grow.

Beware of right wing fanatics in sheep's clothing and wisdom from unearned sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 10:06 AM

Until you have heard and seen the conspiracies and conspirators from inside the belly of the beast in the US you do not have a reliable concept of the dark danger. Extreme right wing murders now number 122. The left has one political murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 01:19 PM

Do you have a source for that, Don? Or several sources?

Subject: RE: my post was not sarcasm
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 01:38 PM

Yes I do. Why do you ask at this time? New orders or suggestions?
If so by who?

Morning Joe 10 31 2022.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 02:12 PM

"My whistle blower sacrifices on this Mudpuddle consist of conservative forces here sending the FBI to my house over claims of inciting violence and the efforts of Steve and cooperative mods to delete my message."

Of all the ludicrous things you've said here, fella, this one absolutely takes the biscuit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 03:11 PM

One can deny facts and the truth-teller may respond to the fear-mongering lies, but when facts are called lies there is no hope.

Its a dark of the moon halloween ~ 6 days 6 hours and 6 minutes before our Congressional elections. The only reliable prediction is that it will be close, with the most tension in decades.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 03:23 PM

Unfortunately, you have all too often been a stranger to the truth, and that's twice as bad when it rubs off adversely on the people you don't agree with and who you attack.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 04:13 PM

I got a hammer
And I've got a bell
And I've got a song to sing
All over this land
It's the hammer of justice
It's the bell of freedom
It's the song about love between
My brothers and my sisters
All over this land

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 06:15 PM

That's all fine. But just check your facts before you post, then everybody's happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 07:18 PM

Turning down the volume of Republican Congressmen who say the quickest way to fire Pelosi is to shoot her in the head may not be possible.
Its not possible on Amazon

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 07:24 PM

Anyway, back to the substantive, hopefully. Trump has seriously damaged the concept of democracy, not just in his own country but in the world in general. Bolsonaro, Johnson and Orbán have been his henchmen and we see neofascists sniffing around in Italy. The danger has far from gone away. In the UK we currently have a regime that plays fast and loose with both the law and with the ministerial code (the rules which constrain the behaviour of senior politicians). Over our shoulders we have Xi, Putin, Modi, Erdogan. The election of Trump would be the pivot point beyond which the world may become unimaginably brutal. He needs to be stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 07:40 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/16/how-the-british-defeated-homegrown-fascism-and-how-americans-can-do-the-same/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 08:53 PM

Hmm. I rarely click on unsupported links, but this one can't be accessed. You can't beat giving your informed opinion.

---

The URL was chopped off. Fixed. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 09:23 PM

Before a year ago you refused to believe my take on Trump cultism and its dangers Steve. You called it my Trump obsession. That you are coming around shows that you are slow to learn beyond your personal prior beliefs, but you do learn. That is more than many folks. I do not think it was me who earned the term 'the usual suspects.

I have pushed back against negativity and schoolmaster cruelty many here were subjected to. You claim you are being attacked. I do not attack you but respect you for being a survivor. Aren't we all?

We quip we all have our 'quarks'. Mine is to return to my editorial cartooning days which are now either misunderstood or dangerous because of the fake news idiocy.

In opposition to your observation, I believe that Brazil is bracing for turmoil and war brought on by the losing president. We shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 09:34 PM

The Washington post article goes back to explain what Britain did in 1934 to defeat the fascist party in their midst. Our problem is that fascists are going by the established name Republican party. Its not the Grand Old Party anymore

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 09:41 PM

Well we'll see about that. Lula has been lauded by most decent democratic leaders in the last few days and I feel that that will bear fruit. He will have to deliver, but he's done it before and we need to give him a fair wind.

As for your other point, you do obsess over Trump in joke threads and just about every thread, and I am far from the only person who thinks that. As for me, I have lots of interests in politics of all shades. In recent months I've been appalled by the paralysis in the US when it comes to doing something about him, not least in the matter of the urgent need to stop him from standing again. I post more frequently about him these days because I think that he is a severe threat to all of us. Your first paragraph is incredibly patronising and is replete with the kind of hubris that is not justified by your rather limited intellect and your penchant for ill-informed comment, not to speak of your inability to express yourself in clear and simple English. In view of this, I'd advise you to take a humble pill and try to express whatever opinions you harbour in far more measured terms than you currently do.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 10:01 PM

I was asking because you had a lot of fairly specific information and I'd like to know where it came from. Morning Joe isn't specific enough - where did they read it?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 12:32 PM

Trump visited Pennsylvania to forecast doom and gloom if anyone but his candidate is elected. Here's hoping they see their own shadows next Tuesday and go away - forever.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 01:06 PM

politics of all shades sounds shady.
Yes I am deliberately fascist adverse and don't sweat the small stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 06:16 PM

We're going to get candidate Trump, aren't we?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 07:19 PM

He thinks it will prevent his prosecution. We all know that isn't likely to be an effective shield this time. Attorney General Garland has made that clear.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 08:09 PM

There is hope that within two years the toxic nature of social media (Tik Tok, Facebook, Twitter) will be understood by most people and treated like tobacco. The gladiatorial nature of the most toxic remarks and claims of the utmost evil will still be spread but will be seen for the swill it is. BUT...
We will have a candidate, Trump. Inflation will be the steroid that inflates a revolutionary spirit. Inflation almost always precedes political revolution despite good policies and reason. Hmmm Germany comes to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 08:32 PM

We haven't got that kind of inflation and you know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 07:49 AM

8+% is not hyperinflation but it affects everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 08:15 AM

Will Biden be standing for re-election in 2 years time or will the Democrats be fielding another candidate?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 02:46 PM

It will be hard to find another 80 year old gaff machine, or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 22 - 07:15 AM

I have seen mob mentality do/allow horrible things but individuals or small groups act heroically. I have also seen the opposite.
Human nature is in charge this election day.
We will see which version will be on display

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Nov 22 - 09:50 AM

What, Her Worry? Iowa’s Kim Reynolds Is Running a Dishonest and Nasty Campaign
But the Republican governor’s punch-down politics are no bar to reelection.

While Trump is dishonest and greedy and wants to see his name everywhere, there are the standard-issue GOP politicians who just want to make life miserable for everyone they dislike. The poor. The unemployed. Those with health issues. She goes back to Reagan and before in her churlish treatment of most of her state's population. I think it was Tommy Thompson (of Wisconsin) during the Clinton era who made it so difficult for families with dependent children to get benefits, etc. They just plain don't think the government has a role in leveling the playing field.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charmion
Date: 08 Nov 22 - 10:24 AM

In my opinion, the new right wing's problem with government is that it can, and will, level the playing field if permitted to do so. They don't want public money used to intervene in the nasty, brutish process of separating and disposing of society's losers.

Of course, they believe that they are or should be winners, and that the government should spend its money on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 22 - 02:21 PM

As if it's not punishment enough being poor, punishing the poor politics is bookended by creating and continuing poverty.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 22 - 09:02 PM

How did we get here? OR

How to deform a more Perfect Union, Establish Injustice, Ensure Domestic Riots, Provide for the Uncommon Defense, Demote the General Welfare, and Secure the Blessings of Liberty to 'ourselves' and our prosperity, to Ordain and Establish our own Hedgemony Constitution for the rich in America...

I will only go back to the time of my own first hand experience although the historic roots can go back to ancient times.
In 1958 the John Birch Society put on a suit and tie and represented a new image for the conservative right which had formerly been KKK values. In 1971 a guy named Powell created a memo for the Republican Party that outlined the long term steps needed to gain power forever.
It included things they called think tanks and quickly outnumbered Democratic think tanks 100 to 1. Powell also made strategies to undo the New Deal and change education to shape young minds. By calling government big and evil the cracks became wider to elect big government corruptors. The only thing that trickled down was meanness.

Changing definitions and the narrative was crucial. For example, journalism was based on the premise of objectivity and reason to reveal the truth. Republicans changed that from objectivity to 'balance' so if 99% believed in climate science the 1 percent deniers have an equal voice due to 'balance'. This strategy was most apparent in the Bush Jr. years. Also, vote tampering with computers was introduced and using the Court to decide elections.

THE DEATH OF THE FAIRNESS DOCTRINE
The news had always been required to be a public service in the public interest but that was stopped by Reagan. New talk radio was now sanctioned to become pure demagoguery rife with racism.

Enter the Internet and later the ultimate King of Mean...
and we are here.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 22 - 09:28 PM

More important than elected officials were Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 03:51 AM

Will the Democrats retain the senate? Fingers crossed!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 04:32 AM

So Ron DeSantis may now be enthused to staunch any bid by Trump for the White House.

Not exactly progress, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 04:57 AM

From yesterday's Guardian.

The future of American democracy is at stake in the midterm elections
(Andrew Gawthorpe)

The majority of the Republican candidates for the House of Representatives are election-deniers – and a Republican-controlled Congress might attempt to sabotage the certification of the next presidential vote.

Midterm elections are generally seen as less important than presidential elections. The stakes seem lower, which means fewer people turn out to vote. Most of the time the party controlling the White House takes losses, and this predictability can make midterms seem less important too: what can one voter do against the strength of the political tides? But occasionally there are midterms whose stakes rise beyond whether or not the president’s party will be able to pass new laws, and instead concern the whole future of the American republic. This year is one of them.

That’s because this year, the majority of Republican candidates running for Congress, governor’s mansions, and other key statewide offices have denied or questioned the results of the 2020 presidential election. Donald Trump’s attempted coup failed in 2020 because officeholders at the federal and state level refused to go along with it. This year’s midterm elections could change all of that, producing a set of Republican officials willing to extinguish American democracy.

[Andrew Gawthorpe is a historian of the United States at Leiden University and host of the podcast America Explained]

This is a day out of date, admittedly, and it's just a short extract from quite a long read. It isn't just American democracy that's in peril...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 06:25 AM

AMERICA BE PROUD! You voted against mandatory incest across the country and preferred abortion rights.
Pretty low bar huh.
Control of Congress is still uncertain but a couple of insurrection candidates won. The New Hampshire dude was at the January 6th attack.
At least Oz, the Trump snake oil 'doctor' and the football hero lost.

California will be the last crucial puzzle piece.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 07:59 AM

Against all historic norms, the Democrats held their own against an expected Republican tidal wave. The biggest loser Donald Trump was probably the catalyst for the re-emergence of reason along with a rejection of violent politics.

Zuckerberg has lost a hundred billion dollars and Musk had to sell Tesla stock to manage his Twitter debt. The gravity of reason is pulling America back from the cliff. In recent years money has been given citizenship and free speech but now it's time to pay the piper.

Money and some Republican losers have conceded,
one said "The People Have Spoken...The Bastards".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 08:53 AM

NYT

Trump said I should get all the credit...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 09:40 AM

NYT is paywalled for me Don. Can you give us the gist?

I heard the orange one saying that if they win he should get the credit but if they lose it is not his fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 10:36 AM

Here's the first chunk of it, Dave:

Trump Hoped for a Celebration but Did Not Have Much to Cheer
The former president endorsed roughly 300 candidates in the midterm elections. With votes still being counted, those in competitive races appeared to have mixed results.

By Michael C. Bender and Maggie Haberman
Nov. 9, 2022, 2:33 a.m. ET
Donald J. Trump wasn’t on the ballot Tuesday, but he’d spent the past two years behaving otherwise, aiming to deliver key victories to a Republican Party from which he’s likely to seek, once again, a presidential nomination.

Several battleground races remained too close to call early Wednesday, but it was clear there would be no “giant red wave” that Mr. Trump had spent weeks pleading with his supporters to deliver.

In some key states, Trump-backed candidates lost or were faring poorly. In Pennsylvania, the Democrat Josh Shapiro won the governor’s race against the Republican Doug Mastriano, while the Democrat John Fetterman defeated Mehmet Oz, a Republican, to flip control of a U.S. Senate seat. In Michigan, Tudor Dixon, Mr. Trump’s pick in the governor’s race, came up short in her bid to unseat Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

In Arizona, where Kari Lake and Blake Masters had campaigned together as “America First” candidates in Mr. Trump’s mold, both were behind in their races for governor and Senate, respectively, although results were too close to call.

Some of Mr. Trump’s candidates fared well, such as J.D. Vance, the Republican Senate nominee in Ohio. And the candidate in whom Mr. Trump was most personally invested, the former football player Herschel Walker, whose Senate candidacy in Georgia has been rocked by allegations that he had encouraged women to have abortions that he paid for, appeared poised to force a runoff.

One of the party’s biggest victories of the night came in Florida, where Gov. Ron DeSantis won re-election with margins that Republicans hadn’t seen there in two decades.

Unlike four years ago, when Mr. Trump’s endorsement helped lift Mr. DeSantis’s underdog campaign, the governor didn’t seek the former president’s help for re-election. Mr. DeSantis was the target of a derisive nickname from Mr. Trump in the final days of the race.

Mr. Trump targeted Mr. DeSantis in part because the governor is widely viewed as the leading alternative to the former president for the Republican nomination. Mr. DeSantis hasn’t said whether he would run for the White House, but Mr. Trump — who is expected to announce his third consecutive presidential bid next week — has told reporters that he viewed Mr. DeSantis as a competitor.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 12:05 PM

https://www.newsweek.com/trumps-mar-lago-threatened-looming-hurricane-nicole-1758037

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 12:43 PM

A criminal tries to steal an election by stirring up violence at the Capitol. Instead of prosecuting him and throwing him in jail where he clearly belongs, we have a weak Democrat party who haven't got what looks anything like a credible candidate next time round, and the only way that the criminal can apparently be stopped from running again, and likely winning again, is via some bloke from the extreme right in Florida thinking of putting himself forward instead.

What a bloody mess. Welcome to the Land of the Free.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 12:59 PM

ALLEGED CRIMINAL RAPES:

32 American women claimed to be raped by Trump.

Greek mythology
Atalanta; raped by Hippomenes when they married.
Alcippe a daughter of Ares; raped by Halirrhothius, the son of Poseidon.
Alcmene; raped by Zeus in form of her husband Amphitryon.
Apemosyne; raped by Hermes, after slipping on skinned hides that Hermes placed on her path.
Auge; raped by Heracles.
Aura; raped by Dionysus while she was drunk.
Callisto; raped by Zeus in the form of Artemis or Apollo.
Cassandra; raped by Ajax the Lesser during the Sack of Troy.
Chione; raped by Hermes in her sleep.
Cassiopeia; raped by Zeus in the form of her husband Phoenix.
Cyrene; raped by Apollo, in the form of a wolf.
Demeter; according to an Arcadian myth, Demeter was being pursued by her younger brother, Poseidon, and she changed into a horse to escape him. Poseidon, however, transformed himself into a horse and, after cornering Demeter, raped his older sister, resulting in her giving birth to Despoina, a maiden goddess, and Arion, a divine horse.
Dryope; raped by Apollo in the form of a snake.
Europa; abducted by Zeus in the form of a white bull, then raped.
Halie; a Rhodian woman raped by her own sons.
Harpalyce; raped by her own father.
Io; pursued and eventually raped by Zeus, transformed into a heifer.
Leda, raped by Zeus in the form of a swan.
Liriope; raped by the river god Cephissus.
Metis; pursued and eventually raped by her cousin Zeus.
Nemesis; raped by Zeus, who relentlessly pursued her, changing many forms. In some versions, Nemesis is the mother of Helen of Troy rather than Leda.
Nicaea; raped by Dionysus while she was unconscious.
Persephone; raped by her uncle Hades and in Orphic tradition by her father Zeus disguised as a snake or as Hades himself.
Philomela; raped by her brother-in-law Tereus.
Procris; raped by Minos.
Rhea; raped by her son Zeus.
Tyro; raped by Poseidon in the form of her beloved, the river-god Enipeus.

Male
Hermaphroditos; raped by (and later merged with) the nymph Salmacis.
Bellerophon; raped by (and later accused of doing the same by) Anteia.
Odysseus; in some versions, raped by Calypso on the island of Ogygia in his seven year stay.
Silenus; raped by the cyclops Polyphemus.
Chrysippus of Elis; raped by King Laius of Thebes, father of Oedipus by Jocasta, and author of the Laius complex in psychodynamic theory.
Ganymedes raped by Zeus
Cinyras raped by his daughter, Myrrha, by deception and alcohol.
Endymion raped by Selene as he slept.
Hylas raped by naiads.
Adonis; in some versions, raped by Aphrodite.
Caeneus raped when he was biologically female by Poseidon.

Hebrew Bible
Noah; mocked by Ham, in some interpretations he is either raped by him or by Canaan, his son and grandson respectively.
Dinah; raped by a Canaanite prince and avenged by her brothers.
Lot; seduced by his daughters by means of alcohol
Tamar; raped by her half-brother Amnon and avenged by her brother Absalom.

Norse mythology
Rindr; raped by Odin in Saxo Grammaticus' version of the engendering of Baldr's avenger

Roman mythology
Lucretia; raped by a prince, Sextus Tarquinius.
The Sabine women; raped by the founders of Rome
Rhea Silvia, raped by Mars.
Medusa; raped by Neptune in Minerva's temple
Lara; raped by Mercury as he escorted her to the Underworld.
Caeneus; formerly known as Caenis raped by Neptune in Ovid's version.

Knights of the Round Table
Lancelot; Elaine of Corbenic posed as Guinevere to perform a rape by deception upon him.

Medieval Folklore
Eve raped by Lilith, in the form of snake
Adam raped by Lilith in the form of Eve

Hindu Mythology
Ahalya seduced by Indra, the king of gods
Rambha raped by Ravana
Araja raped by Danda

Wikipedia

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 01:17 PM

Hmm. Sabine women raped? When I saw Giambologna's amazing sculpture of the Rape of the Sabine Women in the Loggia dei Lanzi in Piazza della Signoria, Florence, four or five years ago, I was moved to look up the story for myself. For one thing, the historicity of the story is disputed. Secondly, even if the story has any truth in it, the women were not abducted for sexual motives. Abducted, yes, raped, no.

Comment is free but facts are sacred.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 01:19 PM

According to Wiki, Trump out-raped Zeus.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 01:20 PM

Not sure what the point of that was, Don. All that needs be done is E. Jean Carroll win her civil suit.

The consensus this morning on Twitter (I tend to follow more central and liberal twitter members) is that "Trump was castrated."

Trump wants to try to stop the Tsunami if criminal charges headed his way and thinks running for office is what it takes. We need the Justice Department to act at a less-glacial pace to take care of finishing off Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 02:02 PM

Trump had 25 public accusations of rape and some additional nonpublic disclosures.

Whoever dared rape Medussa must have had a paper bag.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 02:20 PM

Is DeSantis any better than Trump? If he spoils the orange one's chances it would be good but could he become president and, if so, will it benefit the US and the rest of us?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 04:51 PM

No. He's a zealot like Trump, an awful human being.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 22 - 07:03 PM

Ronald Poindexter De Santis formed 'Pretorian' troops under the direct orders of the Governor.
The National Guard was too federal for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 04:27 AM

Donuel, sometimes -often?- your comments lead to skepticism. For instance: Pretorian? Are you saying that DeSantis formed a "Praetorian Guard"? Please expand on that thought.

Also, the last I knew, DeSantis' middle name is 'Dion'. Where did 'Poindexter' come from?

I'm trying to be polite.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 05:02 AM

Quite.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 06:41 AM

The NY Poat is now calling Trump, Humpty Trumpty instead of Col. Slanders.
Having a State Military force composed of militia types, paid for by taxpayers, answerable only to the Governor is a very ominous move.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 09:42 AM

NPR had a story this morning about how some of the GOP candidates have decided, since the election, that they can disentangle themselves from the orange one. The story noted that Humpty Dumpty remark (not that the NY Post is anything other than yellow journalism, but they have a point.)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 10:11 AM

In 1976, Rupert Murdoch bought the Post for US$30.5 million. Since 1993, the Post has been owned by Murdoch's News Corp. Its distribution ranked 4th in the US in 2019.
Owner: NYP Holdings, Inc. (News Corp)
Founder: Alexander Hamilton November 16, 1801; 220 years ago ..

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 05:20 PM

Let's leave out "Those Sobbin' sobbin' sobbin' women!" I won't hear a word agin' "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" When the avalanche blocks the valley, you're on your own!

(And don't go challenging my PCness until you see the movie)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 08:32 PM

Call me a skeptic, but when abduction is involved, can rape be far behind?

The musical Seven Brides for Seven Brothers is wonderful and is incredibly dated and non-PC. I still watch it when it comes on TV. It's not quite as horribly non-PC as Kismet (another great musical otherwise).

I don't know if there is a musical that portrays how awful Trump is. The closest film representation would be the Star Wars films that have Jabba the Hut as a character. Trump to a T.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 06:38 AM

Lawless and corrupt Trump still has a 33% MAGA base which has grown slightly. The Paradox of Republicans is that they can't win with the donald and can't win without him. It is too late in the day for Republicans to significantly change course.

Wannabe De Santis has a glass jaw and could cower as easily as Cruz when facing the blowtorch of Col. Slanders. Ron won't be able to assume all of the Maga base. Besides he is no prize. So we are not out of the woods yet.

Until the control of Congress is settled, the negative Trump blowback is still in question. The winds of change are still in a cone of uncertainty. It is still dark and dusky but there are signs of dawn's early light.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 07:01 AM

Following the cowboy meme; The hay is in the barn but a leak in the roof can still cause mold. What the women folk are cooking up in the kitchen is still in a battle of recipes of rights.
Meanwhile back in the pass, Trump is in a box canyon shoot out. He is still shooting from the hip which is far less accurate than aiming.
It looks like he has been winged. They say a wounded animal is more dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 07:14 AM

On deliberate obscurantism:

I really don't like art with a message, unless the message is crystal clear.
If you have a message that really needs to be said, just fuckin' say it! Don't hide it in indecipherable lyrics... a sculpture, it's a play, the subtext... just fuckin' say it, 'cause the people who need to hear messages are dumb as shit--the masses of humanity are dumb as shit, and you're really just pandering to your friends. Say what the fuck you mean, just say it! Title the song 'eat more leafy greens'. 'Give a hoot, don't pollute' is as much message and art combined, 'cause I get that, it's a poem but I'm pretty sure you're saying 'don't pollute'. But if you have something... 'ooh, I have the cure for cancer...and I've hidden it in this Rubix cube!!' -- just fuckin' say it!
- Before Turning the Gun on Himself [2012]
Doug Stanhope

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 08:22 AM

GIT LOST you hayseed. When people do not understand a language, its culture, humor, backstory, and its intricacies they cry obscurity.
You do not influence my Yankee individualism no matter how much you rail over my culture, language, and creativity and you never will.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 08:27 AM

I don't understand a lot of your posts eother, Don. I thought it was just me but it seems I am part of an ever growing crowd. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you should change or anything. Just that if you have something important to say, you are not reaching a lot of your target audience.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 01:47 PM

You dress up quite a lot of half-arsed ideas in obscure and ill-researched bullshit and you've been called out numerous times by several people for peddling misinformation. If that's your idea of "Yankee individualism," you are doing your fellow countryfolks a big disservice.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 02:24 PM

Dave,
Perhaps the 'crowd' is as many as 7 people who actually read or care about a subject here.
I run into similar problems with British phraseology and especially unfamiliar names or your local events.
I accept these gaps in communication. For example, If I say Betty White at the end of a mass shooting event post, you would not get it, but in America, it is a popular joke that Betty White stands for 'I bet he is white'.

An excellent translator has to take factors into account most of us do not consider. I have done humorous stories about the high jinx that can ensue from poor translation between world leaders. Even Shakespear plots can turn on a mistaken word or idea.

If you asked "Did she take it all down?", your folks know what you are saying. In America we would be confused or having X rated thoughts,

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 02:27 PM

Like an autistic person, Steve can not differentiate between sarcasm, humor, and reporting on what is being said on a serious subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 02:28 PM

Now stay on topic or go home.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 03:35 PM

If anyone does not understand anything I have said I do my best to explain. I don't always succeed but I do try. If I fail I put it down to a communication flaw on my part. The last thing I would do is blame my listener for not being bright enough to understand my humour.

If you have a point, make it clear. If you tell a joke, make it funny. If you have a communication issue, try to fix it. I'm a simple soul with a little gnome brain. I don't understand subtle nuances, hidden meanings or dark hints. Sorry, that's just me.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 03:46 PM

And I promise to stay on topic as long as we all keep it simple, accurate and well-researched. Stop hitting out at people who clearly work harder than you do on this stuff. You are not the Voice Of America.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 04:36 PM

My best friends work for Voice of America. They heroically worked against Trump's chaos and destruction.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 04:54 PM

You poor thing. Anyway...

From Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian, commenting on Trump's "setback" in the midterms:

"So no shortage of lessons from America. Of course, the differences between there and everywhere else are obvious and nothing reads across precisely. Except for one thing. What the US election proved once more is that the conventional wisdom is often wrong, that fatalism is always wrong – and that, every now and then, politics can turn out right."

Well let's hope so. The usual suspect topics (abortion among them) didn't do it for Trump and his brain-dead acolytes. However, let's not pretend that that far-right tosser in Florida couldn't be just as bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 06:22 PM

Staying on topic, as demanded, I see that the kicked-in-the-bollocks GOP is now in disarray over their Senate leadership election. Days of hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 06:54 PM

Similar to King Midas, everything King Trump touches with lies dies like allies, candidate tries, clean skies and the demise of freedom and the peaceful transfer of power.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 08:05 PM

Apropos of my earlier post, from the Guardian live feed:

Some Republican senators have called for a delay in the party’s leadership elections scheduled to take place next week.

While Mitch McConnell, the current minority leader, was expected to continue in his role, three GOP senators have been circulating a letter calling to postpone the vote scheduled for Wednesday morning, Politico reported. The letter, shared by Senators Ron Johnson, Mike Lee and Rick Scott, said:

“We are all disappointed that a Red Wave failed to materialize, and there are multiple reasons it did not. We need to have serious discussions within our conference as to why and what we can do to improve our chances in 2024.”

Senators Marco Rubio and Josh Hawley also have supported the calls for a delay, CNN reported.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 22 - 10:31 PM

We all get the Guardian. You don't get the WP or NYT. Figures.
I'm surprised you don't post on MOAB where you give us all quite a laugh with your posts and mistakes.

The official elevation of Denver is measured on the West steps outside the building, where the fifteenth step is engraved with the words "One Mile Above Sea Level." From this step, at 5,280 feet (1,609m), the sun can be seen setting behind the Rocky Mountains. A second mile high marker was set in the 18th step in 1969 when Colorado State University students resurveyed the elevation. In 2003, a more accurate measurement was made with modern means, and the 13th step was identified as being one mile (1.6km) high, where a third marker was installed.

After this midterm you can get very high in Colorado now that magic mushrooms are legal for consumption and cultivation.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 04:02 AM

I don't rely on just one or two sources, particularly newspaper ones or their online iterations. Please don't try to guess where I get my news. Stick to the Trump topic or go home. After all, for at least six or seven years he's been the obsessive love of your life (e.g., see joke threads), so it shouldn't be hard. Looks like we can be optimistic about the Senate this morning...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 12:48 PM

Several of the previous bickering posts have been deleted. You two need to get a room. Stop following each other around on threads.

The conversation on Lawrence O'Donnell's show on MSNBC last night centered on how the GOP is "finished with Trump." Not because they are tired of his hyperbole - they are simply tired of losing. There have been candidates on his coattails for the last six years, and not that many of them lost until this most recent Nov. 8 race, and each only lost once, so it would seem to be a collective loss this time they are mourning. Many of the people who ran as Trumpian candidates have never run for office before, so they can't say they have an experience of losing. Again, it is just this time. So they presumably would be as obstructionist and objectionable as before, but would break from Trump as a sponsor.

Trump opened the Pandora's box of racism and bad behavior, and his acolytes refuse to be muted, keeping their antisocial attitudes to themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 01:30 PM

The thing about Trump which I tend to believe he is unconsciously aware of, is his endless sucking of all the air in the room, even when there is no longer a room.

Years ago he was criticized with his backing of the 'Obama not born in the U.S.' meme. Now that it no longer was popular not believable, he flipped it and took credit for settling the issue that Obama WAS born in the U.S. The chutzpah of that gave me a smile. Now, he specifically has taken credit for the election results which gave his support victory, but explicitly not where it didn't. Who else can get away with that, like, EVER?

Meanwhile, the real world still exists, and in MOST of that, Trump has given victory away from Republicans and probably made the Senate go Democratic.

While it seems a solid prediction that the House of Reps. will go majority Republican, it may be such a slim minority in such contentious circumstances that the Republicans will find a new way to collapse.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 01:43 PM

I shall have a cup of tea

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 01:44 PM

1800!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 01:44 PM

Damn you Donuel!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 02:05 PM

You won by intent.

Trump will not be able to succeed without the Murdoch empire support, which is no longer forthcoming!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 02:16 PM

Table top Gnomes https://www.4seasonhome.com/products/garden-drunk-dwarfs-4pcs?spm=..collection_9baca251-4cd9-4eb2-85a8-b8c466fc103a.collection_d

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 03:41 PM

The three threads below this just had palindromic post counts!

BS: Brexit & other UK political topics        4334*
BS: Signs of Autumn        313*
MOAB - Mother of All BS [annex]        3223*

It must mean something :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 22 - 05:26 PM

It might mean don't screw things up by deleting stuff.... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 12:14 AM

Trump is becoming more irrelevant every day. But he still needs to stand trial, several times over.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 04:41 AM

Maybe. But the best hope right now is that the party will increasingly see him as a ballot box liability, especially after these "disappointing" results with his acolytes doing much worse than expected. Anyway, whichever way you find of keeping him off the ticket, you have a big next problem down there in Florida.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 09:45 AM

Well done for keeping the senate out of right wing clutches. Seems like the House of Representatives may go Republican but I guess that without the predicted landslide majority they will not have the power they hoped for. The icing on the cake would be to see the orange one behind bars but, for now, kicking him in the bollocks is fine :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 09:45 AM

As an irrelevant wounded animal, Trump will try to escalate his nonsense in his sphere to ruin his competitors and burn down reputations with repetition in a shrinking social media. Trials ironically will make him feel relevant. It will be as riveting as watching the OJ Simpson slow-motion car chase. the bigger they are the harder...

On the far side...
I am disappointed that simple solutions by the CIA have not been employed - not assassination - but dosing him with psilocybin, especially before a rally. It would quickly cause him to lose his peculiar addiction and create new questions. ;*/ but even worse he may become sane?!

So we say goodbye in a not-too-fond farewell. Bye bye Donald, we are done with your insane incompetence. Hello Desantis and your takeover of the KKK Nazi SS fake news segment of psycho society.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 10:26 AM

Don't put that CIA stuff out there - no one needs that kind of stealthy activity (and CIA isn't supposed to be dealing in domestic issues anyway.)

I am hoping that there will be a political or legal occasion in the near future that contributes to a national Schadenfreude celebration regarding the failure and final downfall of Donald John Trump.

If there are 51 Democratic senators then the VP doesn't need to vote except in tie-breakers - this could cancel out a "NO" vote from either Manchin or Sinema, but not both of them. It might mean they could turn off the filibuster at least long enough to vote through the voting rights legislation they've worked on (and watered down for Manchin, who still wouldn't vote for it - he is a Democrat in name only).

The congress and Biden need to overturn the situation created with the Citizens United decision from the Supreme Court - the big and dark money needs to come out of politics. And there need to be national voting standards, even though states run their own elections. And finally, they need to codify women's rights as far as access to abortion services without the meddling of politicians and religious groups and anyone else who has no business in people's personal private business.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 11:07 AM

The CIA plot is stuff for cartoons.
One more D Senator does give a tiny bit of leverage but a Manchin Bobert alliance can still exist.

'Corporation United' does need to go. You will have to lead the fight for women's independence.

We got rid of DDT and leaded gas but climate change dwarfs those toxic issues.
The future vision of a successful response to climate change after 60 years of ignoring it belongs to the Democrats.
Ignoring climate change for another 50 years belongs to Republicans.
Its the life party against the death policy. The future is only slightly uncertain because it is amazing how much we can ignore !!!
We are already ignoring the million deaths from US Covid. 3 degrees rise means billions of lives lost. We have to take a cold hard look. Is a billion or two deaths a good thing or a bad thing for the Earth.
Can we ever avoid the runaway effect?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 12:23 PM

Last night on TV, a lady American politician of the Republican party suggested the Donald Trump was sent by God. Opposition to him was treasonous and deserved the death penalty. Just how crazy does this man and his followers have to be before the party of Abraham Lincoln and Dwight Eisenhower chuck him and them out?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 12:47 PM

A hint for the broad-minded:

Bad guys win by playing both sides. Good guys can do the same to control every outcome.

This is a really behind the scenes strategy. Is it lying and cheating?
yes but only if the intent is evil.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 01:42 PM

Well its a thought. You think he's trying to capture the lunatic vote. I hadn't considered that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 06:51 PM

Evil lunatics unite. You have nothing to lose but your minds.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 22 - 07:34 PM

Reverend Al Sharpton has an MSNBC show on Sunday afternoons and at about 45 minutes after the hour he had a guest who made perfect sense, something I've been saying all along. Don't listen to the pundits, don't pay attention to the polls. They aren't talking to everyone to get their data.

Her point was that somehow all of the journalists picked up the GOP talking points and went with them as if they were fact. Good things voters pushed back and did what they needed to do - vote, and keep in mind who wanted to cheat and not elect them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 02:06 AM

I think Donuel, theres a very dangerous precedent. The German leaders of industry thought they could harness the power in the knuckleheads and nutjobs of the Nazi party. The point is.... bad things can happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 06:29 AM

At least for now the elections showed normal Americans are normal.
Deniers were denied. And the polls that shouted "a red wave is coming" turned out to be another political device that can be purchased.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 10:13 AM

I honestly don't know how Melania can stand to be around the guy, let alone occasionally share a bed with him. I'm pretty certain he has never learned to explore the delicacies of a woman's orgasm - he's all about objectifying them and their ability to be receptacles. And now he's blaming her for choosing Oz - Even Melania Must Know Trump Blew It (an opinion piece in the New York Times).

Marriage is hard. Even the happiest couples will occasionally bicker, nitpick or wear on each other’s nerves. So consider just how bumpy things could get if someone’s thin-skinned, emotionally erratic, accountability-averse husband started criticizing her for his high-profile screw-ups.

This apparently has been happening at Mar-a-Lago, where, postelection, Donald Trump is flipping out over his key role in the Republicans’ face plant in the Pennsylvania Senate race. Mr. Trump backed his old buddy Mehmet Oz, and the celebrity doctor turned out to be a loser. The former president has since been shifting the blame for his poor pick onto everyone else — including Melania Trump, according to The Times. (Mr. Trump, of course, hopped on Truth Social to denounce the “Fake Story” and insist he “was not at all ANGRY.”) . . . . Of all the places where Mr. Trump proved toxic, Pennsylvania may be where he did the most impressive damage — a state that will be key to any winning Republican presidential contender in 2024. The Trumpian fiasco there shows what happens when candidates make the race all about themselves, embracing MAGA and being out of step with the electorate.

In the high-stakes fight for control of the Senate, Pennsylvania was a hot spot, widely considered the Democrats’ best opportunity to flip a Republican-held seat and, by extension, a must-hold for the G.O.P. Dr. Oz’s high-profile flop was a particularly painful one for Mr. Trump’s party. But there’s more: The Democrats scored a huge win in the governor’s race as well, where Josh Shapiro had the good fortune of running against Doug Mastriano, a Trump-endorsed MAGA extremist so unsettling you have to wonder if he is secretly related to Marjorie Taylor Greene. The Democrats also triumphed in House races, holding onto vulnerable seats, including the hotly contested 8th and 17th Districts. And while a couple of tight races have yet to be called, party leaders are thrilled about already netting 11 seats and being this close to possibly flipping the state House, putting Democrats in control of the chamber for the first time in more than a decade. All of this was a step up for them from 2020, when voters went for Joe Biden over Donald Trump but picked Republicans in some other statewide races.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 10:16 AM

From the same article:

Still, no one disputes that Mr. Trump’s pathetic candidates helped turn Pennsylvania a much bluer shade of purple this cycle. For now at least, the state’s Democrats may be feeling more fondly toward the former president than many in his own party — and perhaps even his wife.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 10:54 AM

> Her point was that somehow all of the journalists picked up the GOP
> talking points and went with them as if they were fact.

We see that phenomenon in the English papers too. It's usually put down to Following the Party Line; but I've a sneaking suspicion that lazy journalism has a role in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 11:12 AM

The book Trump never read.

"Explore the delicacies of a woman's orgasm"

Great book title. Chapter 1 excerpt;
"The orgasm at a tender age is physically explosive and visually eye-popping but as time goes on the event is less visual and more of a release of pent up heat in moaning pleasure. Of course different means to induce it will vary results such as the anticipatory sycopated raga rhythm and the rapid electric vibration methods. Penile induced orgasm usually requires additional stimulation but the orgasm is qualitatively different in nature. Some penises bump into the womb and others slide past it which changes the quality of the orgasm. But above all orgasm is not just a physical response but is a mental process that can be fed erotic thoughts to additional delight."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 11:35 AM

Last Saturday Bill Mahre presented a mystery that has developed since Trump's Inauguration. Virtually everything has come out regarding every detail of DJT's life in hundreds of books, articles, witnesses, documents, and video. However, not one fact has been established regarding the question of who is giving Donald sex of any kind.
Melania will not even hold his hand so we're pretty sure it's not her.
Who if anyone is giving Trump a blowjob? Stormy Daniels was a one-time thing as many years ago as Baron is old.

All indications are that the pump is broken and, if the pump can be primed, he does it himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 11:37 AM

I wasn't so much focusing on the result itself, any "how to do it," as his lack of interest in assisting the accomplishment. Stormy Daniels has given as much information as anyone, and she was underwhelmed.

Meanwhile, cataloging the troubles that Trump is facing, his VP Pence was interviewed recently. Pence: Trump ‘decided to be part of the problem’ on Jan. 6

Former Vice President Mike Pence said in a new interview that former President Trump’s tweet during the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol riot attacking Pence was “reckless.”

“It angered me,” Pence told ABC’s David Muir. “But I turned to my daughter who was standing nearby, and I said, ‘It doesn’t take courage to break the law, it takes courage to uphold the law.’ ”

“And the president’s words were reckless. It’s clear he decided to be part of the problem,” Pence added.

Pence’s remark came after Muir read Trump’s 2:24 p.m. tweet on Jan. 6 as rioters were storming the Capitol, with some threatening Pence. The tweet began, “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution.”

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 09:18 PM

Arizona has turned in more results - the Democrat Katie Hobbs is projected to be the winner in the Governor's race. And in California the great explainer Katie Porter from the House of Representatives has won her race.

Mary Trump was interviewed, and she figures that if the GOP tries to cast The Donald out he'll burn their house down. I can't find the video that was making the rounds a few hours ago, she was interviewed but I couldn't tell who was doing the questioning to go to the source (it came through my Instagram feed.)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 22 - 09:53 PM

This is Pense getting angry? Pense's pregnant pause

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 04:09 AM

I always imagined California was Democrat. Dunno why. Glad I was right though:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 06:17 AM

The election has made the Senate Democrat and the House barely R.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 10:18 AM

There are still uncalled races. Nail-biters.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 11:09 AM

Mary Trump has lost her lawsuit against her uncle,
the lawsuit that was related to a 2001 settlement
in the wake of her father's death earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 11:15 AM

Darn.

The orange one is apparently going to make a really big announcement from Maralago tonight. Most say that despite the hits during the last campaign he's going to announce another presidential run. That doesn't mean he gets to be the nominee.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 08:38 PM

So Trump's election deniers got their arses kicked all over the place and the Republicans failed to bag the Senate. And now Murdoch has almost certainly ditched him (we know on this side of the pond that Murdoch hates backing losers). All told, I can't see Trump back in the White House...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 09:50 PM

The climate has shifted. I wasn't watching but I see on the news that Trump declared he is a candidate. He is hoping to prevent prosecutions by becoming a candidate two years before the election. Not. Gonna. Work.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 10:08 PM

Two things: I'm praying to all the gods that he doesn't get to be the nominee, and a political analyst I saw on a TV show in Oz said that given Trump's personality, he wouldn't cope with being called a loser twice. Here's hoping he has to face that scenario, and that it is caught on camera.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 10:23 PM

As a champion of women everywhere, the lord of truth, justice and the American way of sharing similar hatreds, he stands a liars chance of losing again. A rational con man does not try the same con twice but runs a new con.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 02:45 AM

The thing is he reckons he did not lose last time. Maybe he genuinely believes that it is not possible for him to lose and therefore the system must be corrupt. When he loses again, he will still not believe it. Having a spoiled child in charge of the biggest superpower in the world is a very dangerous concept and I still cannot understand why so many people support him. Mind you, I don't understand why we in the UK voted to leave the EU. Politics seems to have become one big reality TV show :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 05:36 AM

as a cartoonist put it sometime earlier this year (or was it last year?), he can't become President again as he has already been elected twice ...
It was a Doonesbury cartoon, but I can't find it

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 07:25 AM

In politics and mind manipulation it is said until you say the same thing 500 times you haven't said anything at all. Denialism of elections has lost its edge and is dulled by the capital and family attacks among non-fanatics. The investigations only helped shape the minds of the left.
Denialism started up back during the W Bush election that Bush in reality lost. Bush's lawyers successfully blocked the initial count in Florida. The Supreme Court aided the sham.
Denialism is now over used and abused in America.

The Putin method is to win elections by the people who count votes, not the people who vote. Arrest, poison or shoot all your opponents.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 07:46 AM

thanks, helen

I've been reading Doonesbury every day for decades. I've been collecting cartoons for even longer, & often screenshot them & have lots of doonesbury cartoons. Some of my zillions of cartoon are on my desktop, others filed under pictures, all captioned, but I couldn't find it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 08:02 AM

> Arrest, poison or shoot all your opponents.

You left out "defenestrate", Donuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 08:03 AM

.... that gives the victim time to repent, but not to do anything about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 01:18 PM

Sandra, if I revealed my secret ex-librarian powers I'd have to ...

Nope, I copied a phrase you wrote and added Doonesbury to the beginning and Googled it:

Doonesbury Trump can't become President again as he has already been elected twice


MaJoC, I think that instead of "if he says it often enough, he'll start to believe it himself", it's more likely to be "the voters will believe it" because I think he believes everything he says about himself, at the time that he says it, even if he contradicts himself a couple of minutes later.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 01:38 PM

The case against him by the January 6 Committee is that he said many times to people around him at the White House that he knew Biden had won. His motivation to perpetuating the lie goes to motive behind the insurrection.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 08:02 PM

GOP has formally won control of the House of Representatives starting in 2023. The current congress is going to have to race to get some big things done to take ammo out of the hands of those who would bludgeon the nation to get their way.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 08:46 PM

I left out defenestrate but I didn't forget.
My advice to Donald is 'dehumanize not lest you be dehumanized'