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BS: Trump Actions and Effects

punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 08:56 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 08:25 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 07:58 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 07:38 PM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Jan 21 - 07:34 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 07:17 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 05:42 PM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Jan 21 - 04:55 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 03:29 PM
robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 03:03 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 03:00 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 02:18 PM
Helen 09 Jan 21 - 01:54 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 12:45 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM
robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 10:58 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM
robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 10:46 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 10:41 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 09:58 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 09:46 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM
peteglasgow 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM
Mr Red 09 Jan 21 - 09:05 AM
Thompson 09 Jan 21 - 08:43 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 08:40 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 08:28 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 08:20 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 08:03 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 07:53 AM
DMcG 09 Jan 21 - 07:40 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 07:31 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 07:26 AM
Donuel 09 Jan 21 - 07:18 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 06:43 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 06:22 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 06:11 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 05:51 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 05:47 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Jan 21 - 04:51 AM
gillymor 09 Jan 21 - 04:46 AM
Sandra in Sydney 09 Jan 21 - 03:50 AM
Joe Offer 09 Jan 21 - 03:35 AM
robomatic 09 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 02:46 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jan 21 - 02:45 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:56 PM

Steve - I do tend to agree with you, and usually refer to the shittest human beings
as neo n@zis, or fascistic..

Though, trumpzis, and nutzis, and any other "....zis" folks can make up to take the piss out of the c@nts, is fair game...

.. c@ntzis...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:25 PM

My view has always been that the term Nazi should be applied, more or less exclusively, to the contemporary active supporters of the Hitler regime. There are plenty of dictators who have acted just like Nazis, and there are hopefuls in most western countries who would like to act like Nazis. But to chuck the term around lazily is to severely devalue the historical horror of the true Nazis in the thirties and forties. Here's a case in point: I severely dislike and condemn the Israeli regime for the inhuman, often murderous, way they discriminate against non-Jews in the West Bank and Gaza. But many's the time on this and on several other forums that I've bitten back against anyone on my side of this argument who calls the Israelis Nazis. Quite simply, they are not, and the insult is intended to remind them, as hurtfully as possible, what real Nazis did to the Jews and to somehow equate the regimes behaviour with that. That's just wicked. The other thing is that we can find different words. We are not inarticulate. Even "neo-Nazi" does at least make some distinction. Far right, white supremacists, stuff like that. All fine. I want Nazi to mean someone of a Hitler-supporting mindset that affords no compunction to that person when it comes to blind discrimination and unfettered, state-supported evil-doing. Let's not misuse and devalue the term on this forum is what I'm saying. In m'humble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:58 PM

If a certain type of person was called a n@zi 80 years ago,
and a very similar type of person could now be called a 'trumpzi'..

They are still the same kind of person...

They have existed under one name or another throughout the ages.....

Hopefully, for all our safety, a significant numbers of trump supporters are still salvageable...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:38 PM

I'm not denying their existence and I'm not complacent. But I repeat: millions of people supported Trump, they are not by any means all Nazis (incidentally, please define...) and we need to win them back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:34 PM

There are at least 17 known Neo-Nazi organisations that are extant in US. it is dangerous to deny their existence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:17 PM

I'll try again. There are half a dozen posts in this thread just today which are likening Americans to Hitler/Nazis. This is neither sensible nor constructive, nor does it exactly make this forum look great. I tried to say this in a very brief post, but the Nazi allusions are still there yet my cavil was deleted. These references are lazy and throwaway, and while they may well justifiably be applied to a few ringleaders, they may not justifiably be applied to millions of people who are simply misguided Trump supporters. They are people who need to be won back in droves. There are far better ways of doing that than by name-calling and branding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:42 PM

It's time for trial by combat, Lets get ready to rumblllllllllllle. In this corner Ser Gregor Clegane at 385 lbs fighting in abesntia of Donald Trump and in this corner Joe Biden at 142 lbs. You can hear the wind of Ser Gregor's sword as it is swung in circles above his head.
Joe points a phaser at Gregor and vaporizes all but his sword saying "I believe in science". Cries of 'unfair' rigged and cheated can be heard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:55 PM

Robo, I would wait until they are standing next to each other like in the Red Dwarf despair squid episode.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:39 PM

Well I liked it 4 years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:29 PM

HAHAHA And here comes Steve limping out onto the field in his too tight referee outfit and whistles my post dead and issues a red card for saying NAZI.

I'm watching video of your 'patriotic protestors' wearing Tee Shirts that say Camp Aushwitz work sets you free and grey shirts that say 6MENE. Translated it means Six Million Exterminated Not Enough.

I suppose Steve thinks a proper Nazi should have gone to finishing school with the Hitler Youth like the prior Pope.
I liked your joke.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM

Okay, dumb dumb joke time, and like Steve's, this is a reframed famous joke:

You are in a locked room with Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and Donald Trmp. Fortune has allocated you with a Colt 45 loaded with two bullets.

What do you do?













Shoot Donald twice, to be sure.

It's a JOKE!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:03 PM

Yes, it is unfair, trumpists are giving n@zis a bad name...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:00 PM

I'll just leaven the bread with this little aside, fretting not a jot about its appropriateness:

There is a plane carrying 5 passengers: Nicola Sturgeon, Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, the Pope and a 10-year-old school boy.

The plane begins to go down and is about to crash. There are only 4 parachutes on board.

Nicola Sturgeon says "I have to live, I have the Scottish independence to sort out," and takes a parachute and jumps.

The Pope says "I have to live, I have to sort out the Catholic Church," and takes a parachute and jumps.

Donald Trump says "I have to live, I'm the smartest man in America," and takes a parachute and jumps.

Boris Johnson looks at the 10-year-old school boy and says "You can have the last parachute. I'm a lot older than you and I've lived my life, yours has yet to begin."

The school boy says "Don't worry Mr Johnson. There's two parachutes left. The smartest man in America just took my school bag."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:18 PM

Speaking of relatives, Melania is a sharp cookie, knows what she wants and is the most staunch deal maker.
Remember when she refused to move down to the White House with trump in 2016. Until she got a favorable renegotiated pre nup she did not budge. She insisted on a child, her parents immigration and mo money.

I picture Don Jr. on horseback wielding a sword along with his cavalry on race horses, polo ponies and Buffalo hunters. Bill Barr is saddled on a mule and Eric is racing RC cars.

I have Rudy dressed like Napoleon and Ivanka is singing diamonds are a girl's best friend.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Helen
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 01:54 PM

I watched the video of Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson and also this one on the same page.

Mary Trump Predicts A “Dangerous” Next Two Weeks Under the Trump Administration

Among other topics, Mary Trump mentions some of the many challenges Trump will probably be facing after he leaves office.

Also Mary Trump, a clinical psychologist, has evaluated DT and presents the case that DT ticks many of the boxes for sociopathy.

Personally, having worked with a number of people over the years who also appeared to exhibit sociopathic behaviours, I know that they can charm their friends and colleagues into believing all sorts of things. They do it with complete conviction because they believe themselves to be special, invincible, better than the rest of humanity, and entitled to do whatever they want regardless of the effect on others and with no apparent moral compass. When/if the scales fall from the eyes of their supporters it becomes very difficult for them to cope with the fact that the sociopath has used them, chewed them up and spit them out without a second glance as s/he goes on her/his merry way with the next target or project in sight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:45 PM

Fox is doubling down in sarcastic tones referring to the "so called threats of violence" and gleefully attacking Geraldo Rivera for "repeating Democrat talking points". They are in NNM nazi normalization mode.


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Subject: RE: BS: robo Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM

Mr. Red Hotcold You're such a titillating dear. My bet is that we are all unique desite the obvious similarities.
Left to simmer, there is enough deep seated skum to float to the top along with trump fat and then be spooned out of the pot.
It seems if one can predict events and later claim they were right they WIN the mudcat BS game. Meanwhile there are the sore losers.

I have this cartoon of Donald Jr leading the tip of the spear charge of a light brigade into the teeth of hundreds of tanks. Jr's caption "were havin fun huntin you down" caption for tanks "fire".


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM

DonTrumpuel:

You are the only one I know who can oscillate and fibrillate at the same time!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:58 AM

robo i was 'inoculated' as well.














































i


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM

A quick legal Q&A
Who is culpable? Mea Culpa
Who intended crime in their mind? Mens Rea.

Main Stream Media was an enabler imo in the failure to call White Supremacy a brewing evil in all of its excuses, goons, mobs, REAL AMERICANS and those who burned and rioted blaming it on a ethereal mass movement called antifa.

Some of the rioters and looters have practice in the field and consider themselves veteran soldiers. Stalin said when one person is murdered its a tradgedy but a million are a statisic. He also said how people vote doesn't matter, what matters is who counts votes.

Of 20% of Trump voters who will fight in place for their feurer the actual number will be much lower for those who will travel for engagement, so Inauguration day will have a few too many Nazi instigators.
I suspect they will keep their promise. This time we might listen and learn who the real enemy and 5th columnists are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:46 AM

I was raised by a scientist father who thought it important that I have a (mild) religious education.

Kind of like a vaccine. I grew to appreciate it when I was at school and the Campus Crusade for Christ came by. Having a background in the language and stories of religion has not only been useful but inspirational. But my version keeps me interested and with no feeling that I have all the answers. Indeed, my personal religion is to keep questioning, including questioning myself.

And so whether or not one believes in God, I think one of the great lessons of God is that whatever, whoever God is, it's NOT YOU.

This may be the flaw in Trump's personal makeup. And one of the things that makes him unsuitable to be a Commander in Chief. We all have delusions, if only the delusion that we have no delusions, but that one fatal flaw, to confuse oneself with divinity, does not end well. It's one of the reasons that Trump lets down EVERYONE who believes in him. Because the one being he can't conceive of letting down is himself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 10:41 AM

plus you have trump's malevolent arsehole son perpetuating the nutzi shit stirring...


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:58 AM

covfefemax

(whoops, I see you beat me to twatter, Sandman)


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:46 AM

There are already existimg available platforms like News One and AHC. They call it the American Heros Channel but I call it the All Hitler Channel-they really do broadcast Hitler documentaries 24/7


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM

And where, pray, does that statistic come from?

I think that gillymor, DMcG and I are on the same page now apropos of the impeachment process requirements. The banning from future office-holding can only be brought about after a Senate trial and a supermajority vote. What still isn't clear to me is whether it would be constitutional to go ahead with the whole process, including the Senate trial, after he's left office. Another point is that it's important to not conflate what the Senate does and what the criminal justice system does: impeachment is not intended to lead to punishment, and it doesn't enjoy anything like the same due process requirements.

His resignation would be owned by him. Amendment 25 would be owned, probably, by Mike Pence. Impeachment, if successful and leading to a ban from future office, would be seen to be owned by the Democratic Party. I've put them in the order of desirability as I see it, from best to worst. If none of those things happens, and there ends up being a criminal trial, which would be protracted, I think your country would be in hot water for a very long time. He did get an awful lot of voters behind him, and martyrdom would likely follow... Be careful what you wish for, and be even more careful what you charge him with.

We could be in for quite an interesting few days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: peteglasgow
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:36 AM

....also enabling trump seems to have been the evangelical christian churches. will they be able to change their tune? maybe accept a bit of humility? there should be a fair amount of cognitive dissonance going around - will it change much in the US? i really don't know whether we should be horrified or encouraged by recent events and what will happen next.....


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:05 AM

BriteFart


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:43 AM

Tantrump gets my vote!


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:40 AM

Lets look at the big picture. While Trump got 70 million votes fewer than 20 million will put their lives and family on the line to die for Trump. This constitutes an Army composed of Nazi, KKK spin offs and bible / gun nuts.

They are capable of a great deal of damage.
They won access to ransack the capitol but FAILED; to delay Biden vote, Hang Mike Pense, hold lawmakers hostage and murder the guilty by kangaroo court as similarly planned against the govenor of Michigan.

Next are the enablers; Murdoch, Zuckerberg, Trump, Republican Senators, Sinlair local radio and TV etc.



Am I saying anything new here" I don't think so. If you haven't opened your eyes yet they could be closed by violence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:28 AM

"Its OK to guess, when it comes to cosmology I guess all the time.
When it comes to statutes and the Constitution not so much."
Let me point out that you also got it wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:20 AM

That NY mag article indicates that it may be possible to try an impeached trump in the senate even after he's left office.
At this point he's probably getting chapped lips from kissing Pence's ass in hopes of attaining a Nixon/Ford-like pardon, the same ass he was chewing on a few days ago for not conducting an unconstitutional activity on his behalf in the Senate Chamber.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:03 AM

Its OK to guess, when it comes to cosmology I guess all the time.
When it comes to statutes and the Constitution not so much.
Its my wife who gets called to the Capitol to testify as part of her job. I just get to complain about the gubmint full time. I am not a lawyer so feel free to ignore everything I've said. I won't sue you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:53 AM

I think you're right DMcG, and I apologize if I've introduced misinformation here. It was not my intent to deceive any one.

From NYMag-
NY Mag

From the article-
"Indeed, Senate rules provide that such a ban may be enacted by a simple majority vote after two-thirds of the Senate has voted for conviction in an impeachment trial."


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:40 AM

It needs a proper lawyer to answer this, but it looks to me as if the simple majority to ban from future federal roles only applies after he has been convicted on the two-thirds majority. I could very easily be wrong there, but as an abstract principle the ban looks like a punishment and the 2/3 is about guilt. So having a punishment when a person is found not guilty sounds odd.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:31 AM

Quite right, a simple majority is all it takes but I doubt Moscow Mitch would want Republican senators in swing states to have to vote on it. We'll have a real AG on the 20th instead of a trump bootlicker so let's hope the force of law hits him like a ton of bricks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:26 AM

A simple 50/50 majority is needed to ban Trump from ever holding office. A 2/3 majority is needed for guilt


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:18 AM

What makes everyone inciting the coup CRIMINALLY respondsible is an overarching legal term called MENS REA be it Trump or Rudy or Senators.
Since the basis for their actions are based on FRAUD (the election was rigged) there is criminal culpability of all its founders. If there was any possiility that the basis for their action was not fraud but a provable fact with evidence there would not be Mens Rea and there would not be criminal action at the foundation of all their words and behavior.
Well Steve knows more US law than most Americans. BUT There are more nooks and crannies in the Constitution than people think.
Mitch McConnell has decided to sit on his hands and leave it to the next Congress. Every thing I wrote is accurate. I won't repeat it.
I have some Constitutional awareness since my dad was a constitutional law professor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:43 AM

The way I understand it is that the Senate, after an impeachment in the House, can vote to ban the impeached from seeking public office via a super majority vote without a trial or a conviction. I would be very much in favor of that though there's not much chance of it happening but trump's going to have legal problems in a number of venues that will probably keep him occupied until the grave, might even cause him to miss a few rounds of golf or an assignation with a porn star.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:22 AM

Maybe we have our wires crossed. I know that he can be banned from office once the Senate finds him guilty via a supermajority (though I'm unclear about the constitutional position once he's left office on the 20th, and some of your constitutional lawyers are also unsure). I thought you meant that there could be the sort of fast-track that missed out steps...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:11 AM

If you're referring to the Senate's ability to prevent someone from running for office after impeachment, it's been done twice before in our history, both times with federal judges, I believe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 06:06 AM

That doesn't sound constitutional, but do correct me if I'm wrong...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:51 AM

2nd sentence should read-"But after impeachment his chamber could, but probably won't, vote to ban trump from seeking public office with a super majority vote without a trial. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:47 AM

Moscow Mitch put out a memo yesterday stating that the Senate, in the event of an impeachment, would not even begin prepping for a trial until the 19th, effectively saying no trial. But after impeachment his chamber could, but probably, vote to ban trump from seeking public office with a super majority vote without a trial. Even scum like trump deserves a fair hearing and shouldn't be railroaded into a hasty trial but he needs to be strongly repudiated after his shameful, seditious and undemocratic actions on Wednesday and on last week's Georgia phone call. Some times you've got to do the right thing even though it might not appear to be the smart or practical thing in order to get the message out there that no one is above the law. Thank goodness Pelosi and her caucus see it this way. Early next week the House will tie a bow around our worst presidency with a historic 2nd impeachment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:51 AM

I read just now on the BBC news website that the earliest an article of impeachment could be put to the Senate would be on the 19th. The feeling is still that getting a Senate supermajority to convict him is almost inconceivable. It isn't clear either whether convicting him once he's left office on the 20th would be constitutionally sound...


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:46 AM

Twatter


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:50 AM

Tantrump


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 03:35 AM

Many of his followers are on Parler, and much of Wednesday's attack of the Capitol was planned there. Google Play dropped the Parler app on Friday, and Apple is expected to drop the app on Saturday.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM

The TrumpDump!

Because you know.... It's Trump and a digital .... you know....


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Subject: RE: BS: name for trumps new social media
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:46 AM

YouTrumped...


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Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 02:45 AM

Up until a few minutes ago I had never heard of Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson.

This interview is one of the best I've watched regarding trump's impending demise,
from one of the most sensible US political commentators I've found so far...


"Trump’s Life About to Become "A Burning Hell" "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVTnC0Hky0&ab_channel=AmanpourandCompany


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