BS: Trump Actions & Effects (NO new Trmp threads!)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:40 PM

This was not street theatre. This was an insurrection organized and orchestrated by a sore loser and these were his supporters who identify with him as sore losers as well. This kind of violent protest cannot be tolerated in a democratic society.

It's especially hard for me to watch because I've been in much larger protests, 400,000 marching in Washington in 1969, but we never stormed the Capitol or even the White House. We shook our fists and passed on by.

The last four years have been very sad, and now we are beginning 2021 on an even sadder note.

Only Trump is beaming from ear to ear. The SOB has done it again.

Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 08:49 PM

Well, we're hearing some Republican retreat. First, the President of the Senate, Mike Pence, and just now, fresh from her defeat in her Georgia re-election campaign, Kelly Loeffler, who just made a rather heartfelt speech saying that she intended this morning to object to the certification of some delegates (to the Electoral College) but is not going to do so now.

Not a sea change. Yet. But by now maybe some Republicans are sensing diminishing returns of their Trumpallegiance.

Ah, the reliable motivation that remains! Self interest!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 10:12 PM

items on our national news - US politics live update
Twitter, Instagram & facebook have limited Donald Trump's account
White House Press Secretary Sarah Matthews has resigned
The First Lady's chief of staff has resigned over the violence in the Capitol

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 10:27 PM

Oscar Wilde observed:

"America is the only country to go from barbarism to decadence without an intervening period of civilization."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 11:06 PM

Oscar Wilde was funny,
so was the Princess Bride quote "Good luck storming the castle".
Much more video is now released from the chaos inside the capitol.
Some Republicans have bailed but the rest of the objectors have doubled down. I have not editorialized these events at length, if at all, but if I did in one sentence it would be that democracy is better when it comes from everyone instead of from one shameful person like Trump.

PS robo, to see history repeat itself, you have to know history.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 11:20 PM

The quote is HAVE FUN storming the castle. Philistine.

I joke, because, today.

Wow. I have been embarrassed by my government, and by my fellow Americans, before... but this is cringe-worthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 21 - 11:55 PM

I think I’m starting to see lizard people.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:25 AM

Don does have a point in all of that - even as I watched the crowds rush the Capitol, I was also astonished at the number of people who still don't get it about wearing masks and maintaining their distance. Today was certainly a super spreader event. And now the house and senate are in on large room that had a bunch of non-distancing people in it earlier in the day, touching, breathing, and who knows what in there. Is the air filtration and the cleaning crew so good and swift that they were able to remove some of the excess hazard introduced into the room? Germs and guns.

Double-entendre there.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:39 AM

Is Trump more cunniing that he first appears?
is he doing this to show and warn that he is too big to be impeached, to show that when he leaves office he has the power to still cause mayhem if he is prosecuted?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:03 AM

Who the hell knows what goes on in the mind of trump, he's clearly gone around the bend and deserves to be arrested for inciting rebellion as soon as it's legally possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:21 AM

He's also a goddam coward, when exhorting the mob to move on the capital he said "I'll be right there with you" before slinking back to the White House to watch the riot in comfort and saftey.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:27 AM

"the Capitol", doh.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM

With all due respect Gilly we know insanity when we see it.
We know the face of hate, racism and cowardice.

This was diagnosed and predicted. Now it is witnessed by everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:57 AM

With due respect you'd address me as gilly, trumpuel.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:07 AM

If he is not arrested the USA will have lost the respect of the world for a generation.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

trump may be immune from prosecution at this point but there's no reason that Rudy, Mo Brooks and trump jr. shouldn't be brought up on sedition charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 08:27 AM

#lockhimup

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:32 AM

After 100 years I know Americans very well. It has been a racist society for hundreds of years. Rightwing mobs, lynch mobs, murderous police mobs, racial massacre mobs are excused and given a nod while the left is considered dangerous, communist, godless and nigger lovers.

This is who we have been. Somtimes you have to wait for the old bastards to die off but tribalism has deep roots. The new confederacy in all its manifstaions is the old might makes right barbarism.
You are the bystander. When ever you hear "whatever" it is a passive supporter. If you hear "we love trump" it is an active supporter.

Most of you are old dogs and can't learn many new tricks. I can only hope you will not allow yourself to get tricked. Thats why I begin and end with the truth. The truth in history repeating it self, the truth of who we are andin who we are and what the alttrnatives can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:44 AM

I try ignore your untethered, condescending, scatter-brained horseshit but it gets difficult at times.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM

i do not think he will be impeached , i hope i am wrong, Trump may be corrupt but so are many others , if trump is impeached he might expose others.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM

Something needs to be done because he can wreak a lot of havoc in the next 13 days. No one should be above the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:40 AM

American Airlines decided to stop serving booze on flights to and from dc as passengers were being belligerent about politics.

I bet nothing will happen to these particular politically belligerants.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:45 AM

I think it was David Axlerod on CNN last night who related that Mitt Romney flies alone in coach and earlier this week was accosted on a flight back to D.C. by trumpophiles chanting "traitor".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:11 AM

The video of that incident is being shown on BBC-TV News today, gilly. Disgusting aggression and bullying.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:48 AM

"Do not call what’s happening in Washington a protest. It’s a white supremacist insurrection, a seditious attack on democracy. This riot is yet another battle in a Civil War that has never ended, one that generations of white people have waged through lynchings, murder, intimidation, oppression, odious policies, and systemic racism.
"This is what President Trump — who should be arrested for inciting violence, never mind impeached again — wanted. He’s never cared about America, and he’d rather watch this nation burn than see it led by anyone else. Of course, the blame for this riot cannot end at the Oval Office.
"May it forever stain every Republican who refused to acknowledge Joe Biden as the president-elect. Let it shroud every GOP legislator who turned Trump’s loser pity party into a pointless effort to thwart the will of 81 million voters. Speak with shame the names of the men and women who fought against democracy and tried to pervert voter engagement into voter fraud. They own this horror, each and every one of them."

-- The Boston Globe, January 7, 2021

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 12:31 PM

I thought I would never say, good for you Mark Zuckerberg.
(trump banned on facebook)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 12:41 PM

I'm glad the globe and I see eye to eye.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:13 PM

25th Amendment...???

Mussolini and Ceau?escu might agree that's letting trump off lightly...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:14 PM

Today on The Takeaway (NPR) they spoke about the lack of arrests of domestic terrorists. One of the guests remarked that (paraphrasing) we need to look at police from the context of who they are there to protect compared to who they are there to control.

There's a reason why rioters were taking selfies with the local police. There's a huge problem of the affiliation of white supremacist groups in police forces around the country.

Yesterday it was VP Pence who called the National Guard, not Trump. There were several things Pence had to do because Trump wouldn't. Meanwhile, Ivanka was referring to domestic terrorists as "patriots." She'll look great in orange, especially once her roots grow out.

Trump needs to be removed from office, if only for the humiliation of the act. Impeach him, declare him incompetent and remove him. Just get his fat ass out of there.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 01:48 PM

events so far

After 4 years of trying every legal civilized remedy in the book
it looks like the Democrats are going to have to resort to the extreme

strongly worded letter.


After 100 years (I knew my grandparents story) I know Americans very well. It has been a racist society for hundreds of years. Rightwing mobs, lynch mobs, murderous police mobs, racial town massacre mobs are excused and given a nod while the left is considered dangerous, communist, godless and nigger lovers.

This is who we have been. Sometimes you have to wait for the old bastards to die off but tribalism has deep roots. The new confederacy in all its manifestations is the old 'might makes right' barbarism.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 02:59 PM

The last thing you need is a protracted show trial. Send him to Elba. Pool, pets, but no phone...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 03:16 PM

Yebbut he was never able so he could not say the palindrome

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM

So you are saying there is only one answer

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 03:54 PM

They can race through the impeachment process if they need to - we all know what is being discussed here. Up until yesterday the phone call to Georgia was an impeachable offence, but this one yesterday was on film and we can see the cause and effect - once he's out, the cowardly GOP members don't need to fear so much. Except their voters in their next elections.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 04:40 PM

That's Pelosi's plan. If they succeed it means he can never run for ANY office and the $ he has made for reelection will cease.
His legal exposure is to the states.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 05:51 PM

So, it seems the woman shot dead was a right wing military vet..

No surprise, then..

It's what we Brits have been lead to expect of the profile for trump militia activists...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:14 PM

You yanks have many a conundrum. Try to impeach him and fail: he wins in 2024, no sweat. Charge him with wotever: a long-winded and extremely damaging show trial that gives succour to his followers. Do nothing: he's a lethal pain in the arse forever. God knows, but, as you're yanks, you'll decide wrong, as ever. You'd all better start praying for his ill-health. Or wonder, in hope, whether Lee Harvey Oswald really did die...

There are terrible worries for the next 13 days. But there are terrible worries for many years to come. Half of your Republicans still want to overturn a free and fair election in which the winner got there by six million votes. But Trump's 70 million are not going anywhere anytime soon. If only you'd fixed your stupid electoral college before 2016. But isn't hindsight a wonderful thing...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:22 PM

I am purposely not going to try and remember the actual quote. It has to do with history repeating itself, (which it doesn't really do):

-History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce-

So what's occurring to me today it the storming of the Bastille versus what happened yesterday, which doesn't yet have a convenient label.

The storming of the Bastille probably had a lot of weapons drawn and led to the fall of the French monarchy.

Yesterday's affair led to the exposure of the extreme right wing Trumpistas as truly pathetic and sad.

Trump seems to have ultimately been a pot-stirrer but a rather directionless one, in that he is dedicated to no principle, just himself. As such he has not made anyone happy, just reinforced pre-existing discontent and prejudice.

Many of the talking heads have gone on about the unprecedented nature of this 'occupation' but I think other potential 'rhymes' might be when Andrew Jackson had an inaugural party where he opened the White House to the public
and they apparently trashed it. While there are some similiarities between Andrew Jackson and President Sierra Foxtrot Bravo, I think that at least Jackson had principles and showed signs of being a man prior to his election. This is not an endorsement of Jackson, I am in favor of dropping him from the currency.

Democracy is not for sissies, and is no guarantee of eternal success. Right now I'm thinking of Paul Simon's song: "American Tune".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 07:31 PM

"Yesterday's affair led to the exposure of the extreme right wing Trumpistas as truly pathetic and sad."

Lament as much as you like, but he's still here, like a big cancer. As for not making anyone happy, after four years he got 70-odd million votes, more than most previous winners. Au contraire, he appears to have made unprecedented numbers of people happy. That's the big problem you'll be dealing with for many years to come, and you may not solve it...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 08:16 PM

American Tune

Many's the time I've been mistaken
And many times confused
Yes, and I've often felt forsaken
And certainly misused
But I'm all right, I'm all right
I'm just weary to my bones
Still, you don't expect to be
Bright and bon vivant
So far away from home, so far away from home

And I don't know a soul who's not been battered
I don't have a friend who feels at ease
I don't know a dream that's not been shattered
or driven to its knees
But it's all right, it's all right
For we've lived so well so long
Still, when I think of the road we're traveling on
I wonder what's gone wrong
I can't help it, I wonder what's gone wrong

And I dreamed I was dying
I dreamed that my soul rose unexpectedly
And looking back down at me
Smiled reassuringly
And I dreamed I was flying
And high up above my eyes could clearly see
The Statue of Liberty
Sailing away to sea
And I dreamed I was flying

We come on the ship they call the Mayflower
We come on the ship that sailed the moon
We come in the age's most uncertain hour
and sing an American tune
But it's all right, it's all right
You can't be forever blessed
Still, tomorrow's going to be another working day
And I'm trying to get some rest
That's all, I'm trying to get some rest

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:54 PM

Lament as much as you like, but he's still here, like a big cancer. As for not making anyone happy, after four years he got 70-odd million votes, more than most previous winners. Au contraire, he appears to have made unprecedented numbers of people happy. That's the big problem you'll be dealing with for many years to come, and you may not solve it...

No, Steve, I don't think so. It looks like Pelosi is going to go for the jugular and they WILL take him out. It is imperative for the preservation of the government. If he is impeached he won't be able to run, end of story. Otherwise, with the threat that he might run again, he will have the lunatic fringe racing to be bizarre enough to catch his attention.

She's a very small woman, and she's elderly, but she's determined and a helluva lot smarter than Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 10:55 PM

Betsy DeVos is gone, yay.

Lovely tune, that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:18 PM

trump's got to be so totally disgraced,
that he's left with no other option
but to beg to be allowed to move to N. Korea...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 11:23 PM

I am not disagreeing with the observation that Pelosi is a lot smarter than Trump. But Trump has lowered the bar for so many items that I think we should leave him out of comparisons and look for something a bit more objective.

There is so much outflow from this period: "stable genius" "alternative facts" that we're not even sure if this period is a swan song or a new lease on life or a remember the days.

Not to mention that yesterday's vile intrusion into the U.S. Capitol is part of the intro to brand new baby 2021.

How's the Brexit thread doing?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:51 AM

Note to those who may not be aware: if Rump is impeached and CONVICTED, he cannot run again.

For awhile today I was almost certain that he will resign. After a couple of hours of contentment I retracted it, suddenly aware that only normal people would react that way. The Rump is not normal so he probably doesn't know that resigning is the decent thing to do.

A complicating factor is that the earlier he is no longer the president, the earlier he will face a myriad of other problems.

I still don't want him to kill himself, but, really, only because it would instantly make him a martyr.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:56 AM

Oh, I forgot to ask. Does anyone know more about the alleged offenses at other capitols? I haven't looked it up but last night Joy Reid mentioned that there were trumpies in evidence at the capitols of several other states.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:28 AM

Interesting article from the Wall Street Journal examining the question of impeachment, and recommending resignation.

I truly cannot understand anyone supporting the worst President in living memory who has trashed democracy and the Constitution, and turned the greatest nation on Earth into a laughing-stock in the way he has. It’s becoming very obvious that our local saying here is absolutely true - “You can’t educate pork”.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 04:14 AM

It appears that demonstrators appeared at at least five different capitals in various states. Mostly peaceable but there were a few instances of arrests for disorderly conduct..

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:44 AM

"If he is impeached he won't be able to run, end of story."

Not so. The end of the story would be the Senate trial after impeachment. Only if the impeachment leads to the trial stage may he be barred from future office (and that is at the discretion of the Senate in any case). You have just twelve days to go through all the stages in the impeachment-trial process. If by 20 Jan you haven't got that far, the trial in the Senate won't go ahead (whether that's the Constitution I don't know, but there are precedents). You can't remove someone from office who is no longer holding that office (as with Nixon, for example). A failed impeachment process would be grist to his mill. Invoking the 25th Amendment would be a way to prevent him from directly doing more damage between now and the 20th but it wouldn't stop him from running again in 2024. There is scope as I see it for a criminal trial, along the lines of incitement to riot or similar, but that is not clear-cut enough for a trial to be short and sharp. A dragging-on criminal trial would be a very bad thing for your country and would very likely foment disorder among Trump's millions of supporters. You could simply let the dust settle and hope that he becomes more and more marginalised in his growing derangement, but if that doesn't work and he continues to stir up trouble it would be difficult to resurrect the alternatives. In the days before mass communication, wasn't exile a wonderful idea! You have a big problem, potentially, and whether it materialises will depend on Donald being a good boy, or not, from now on. In other words, he's in control. One of the fruits of populism, innit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump Actions and Effects
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 06:56 AM

I think the best thing that Americans can pray for is that he pegs out before 2024. He’s morbidly obese, it’s a possibility.

I just read elsewhere an unconfirmed report that one of the deceased rioters had tasered himself - allegedly in the face. Please Dog, let it be true!