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Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts

Related thread:
Singing on Conference Calls and Zoom (52) (closed)


Mr Red 07 Sep 20 - 04:02 AM
Tattie Bogle 05 Sep 20 - 02:15 PM
Joe Offer 04 Sep 20 - 10:55 PM
leeneia 04 Aug 20 - 06:18 PM
Joe Offer 04 Aug 20 - 03:17 PM
JHW 04 Aug 20 - 02:17 PM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Aug 20 - 03:46 PM
Nick 01 Aug 20 - 09:00 AM
Noreen 01 Aug 20 - 04:49 AM
Joe Offer 31 Jul 20 - 04:03 PM
Nick 31 Jul 20 - 02:34 PM
Stilly River Sage 31 Jul 20 - 01:38 PM
Nick 31 Jul 20 - 01:32 PM
Nick 31 Jul 20 - 01:31 PM
Joe Offer 31 Jul 20 - 11:36 AM
Mrrzy 31 Jul 20 - 08:23 AM
Joe Offer 31 Jul 20 - 07:41 AM
GUEST,Bedford UK Zoom Host 31 Jul 20 - 06:30 AM
YorkshireYankee 30 Jul 20 - 11:03 PM
GUEST,Gerry 30 Jul 20 - 10:08 PM
Tattie Bogle 30 Jul 20 - 07:21 PM
Nick 30 Jul 20 - 06:28 PM
Severn 30 Jul 20 - 10:12 AM
Joe Offer 30 Jul 20 - 03:21 AM
mg 30 Jul 20 - 02:30 AM
Severn 29 Jul 20 - 08:17 PM
GUEST,Gerry 29 Jul 20 - 07:57 PM
Nick 29 Jul 20 - 07:28 PM
Joe Offer 29 Jul 20 - 01:05 PM
Stilly River Sage 29 Jul 20 - 10:57 AM
leeneia 28 Jul 20 - 11:45 PM
Joe Offer 28 Jul 20 - 08:22 PM
Noreen 28 Jul 20 - 07:34 PM
Noreen 28 Jul 20 - 07:27 PM
mg 28 Jul 20 - 06:50 PM
GUEST,Gerry 28 Jul 20 - 06:42 PM
GUEST,Gerry 28 Jul 20 - 06:39 PM
Mrrzy 28 Jul 20 - 05:37 PM
G-Force 28 Jul 20 - 05:08 PM
Mysha 28 Jul 20 - 04:24 PM
Joe Offer 28 Jul 20 - 03:17 PM
mg 28 Jul 20 - 02:34 PM
mg 28 Jul 20 - 02:25 PM
Stilly River Sage 28 Jul 20 - 01:24 PM
Joe Offer 28 Jul 20 - 10:56 AM
Mrrzy 28 Jul 20 - 10:34 AM
Acorn4 28 Jul 20 - 09:35 AM
Mrrzy 28 Jul 20 - 09:21 AM
Acorn4 28 Jul 20 - 05:40 AM
DMcG 28 Jul 20 - 04:04 AM
Joe Offer 28 Jul 20 - 03:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Sep 20 - 04:02 AM

Or Excel if you have it and fill series in the next or previous column

Ordering alphabetically is easy enough. And you have columns for "has sung" - I suggest some sort of timestamp too. You can record (or write) a simple macro to set a cell with "Now" in text/date format. But it would be so much easier to have a button invoke it. With a bit of programming you could have it look for previous timestamps and stamp in adjacent columns. Anyone going that route - I could write the macro for you, it doesn't seem complex to my eyes. PM me. I enjoy a challenge.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Sep 20 - 02:15 PM

Joe, you can record yourself, either during a session, or set yourself up a solo session: the recording is available immediately after the session closes as an mp4. You can then hear how you sound, and try a few further short recordings, off session, until you get it as you want it.
(I did this last week for one of our band who always sounds like he's shouting down a very bad megaphone when he speaks, though his concertina sounds OK when he's playing: I suspect he IS shouting, and far too close to his computer microphone. Having sent him the recording, he'll hopefully be able to adjust his sound settings to being a bit easier on the ear for the rest of us!!)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Sep 20 - 10:55 PM

Here's another page of tips for singing on Zoom. I'm still not happy with the sound settings. I can't hear how I'm going to sound to other people, and I tend to be too loud.

https://www.thenakedvocalist.com/zoom-for-singing-teachers


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: leeneia
Date: 04 Aug 20 - 06:18 PM

I'm happy to hear that the problem is solved, Joe. I enjoyed yesterday's singaround. Thanks go to you and Noreen for your efforts.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 20 - 03:17 PM

Noreen found more tricks with the participant search, and it made yesterday's singaround so much easier.

I found the "find a participant" box on the list of participants in the Seattle Singaround Sunday night. And then when taught a class Monday morning and opened the Mudcat Singaround in the afternoon, alas! It wasn't there! So, I thought I was going to have to search through the bowels of Zoom to find a check box to turn the search feature on. Not so, when there were about ten participants in the Mudcat Singaround, the search box appeared.

We number all participants so we know what order they're singing it, but there seemed to be no sense to the order of people on the participant list. Midway through the Singaround Noreen discovered that when she clicked the title bar of the participants list, the participants were displayed in order. It's important to be consistent in your numbering practices - I'd recommend preceding single-digit numbers with a zero.

It had been so stressful for me to figure out who was going to sing next. Now that I know about the search box and the trick for putting the list in order, hosting the Singaround was hardly any stress at all!

-Joe-

JHW - what did you want to be left out from? I don't think you're on the email list for the Mudcat Singaround. Was there something else?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: JHW
Date: 04 Aug 20 - 02:17 PM

Leave me out


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Aug 20 - 03:46 PM

Noreen - didn't know about the participant search. I will look at that for tomorrows quiz - but with an average 10 participants not so much an issue.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Nick
Date: 01 Aug 20 - 09:00 AM

Joe - harder than I thought

We used to have Salesforce where I worked and you could always get almost what you wanted. The first layer of difficulty drives people away. And if you paid more. And when there were no more carrots...

Silly question (and yes I have a list of folks from our secret Zoom today that is just a series of processes) because you can see in their API that you have access to this info

Have you asked on their forum?

ie I run a regular Zoom meeting with 160 people on and find it hard to manage the participants. Is there a simple way that I can do this as a paid for administrator? The most difficult bit is that screen refreshes make it hard etc

If there aren't loads of folks who could help

My guess is your problem would go away soon

If not - as long as you have access to the Participant screen it's a faff but can be done


Most of what I think at my age is

1 I don't need to sort things that are already sorted
2 With your purchased thing I think you have access to all this and I have the confidence that if you asked you'd have it sorted


Plan F

Do you have a google docs account


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Aug 20 - 04:49 AM

Co-hosts don’t have to be paying members of Zoom. I am a free member of Zoom and am allowed to co-host.

I don’t know if you are aware Joe that the list of participants is searchable, so if you are looking for all the participants starting with 1, say, it brings up a manageable list to peruse which you could then screenshot. Also if I can’t find say 27, I search the list for that number and if it’s not there I know they’ve left.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 04:03 PM

Brilliant, Nick! I can hardly wait to try it.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Nick
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 02:34 PM

I'm in a Zoom meeting tomorrow - not as an administrator - and will explore solutions. You are not alone in your problem. I have a friend who administrates Zoom meetings who has trouble keeping track of 10 people. Apparently it is even worse on a phone.

Starting point is that underlying most things is text. So if you know where the text is you can always do something even if you aren't supposed to unless it is encrypted to prevent it. But then you can take a screenshot of the are pop it into Google docs online and you have a text file

Many very low tech ways to skin cats.

Many years ago you might remember there was a spate of trying to stop people right clicking on things. Which worked unless you knew that if you left clicked on them and kept the left click down you could then right click...

They are machines and there is usually a way to do it if you want to

Where I used to work there was a software problem that meant that a certain number of images were missing on a very major website (estate agency/houses for sale). Management answer was that x% of images missing was "acceptable". What that related to was HUGE numbers of calls on a bad day and quite a number of calls on a good day. I had an incredibly low tech solution. I got the file downloaded in the middle of the night and had three or four batch files and excel files that told me every day how bad the world would be. I could tell you where the guy who I used to have the 'acceptable' conversation now works but won't. Suffice it to say I hope he doesn't take the same view with their airplanes

Within a week they found the bug and wrote the problem out as they got sick of me. Good for the clients. And missing images (and calls) went down to nothing


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 01:38 PM

There's a lot to be said for having at least two monitors on a computer. I have two 27' monitors and work with several browser or work windows open at once, never opening any of them on the entire screen.

A friend set up a 42" television as a monitor on his desk for gaming. It's kind of overwhelming, but maybe something like that would give you a good-sized look at everyone in the Zoom boxes on the screen.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Nick
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 01:32 PM

Or Excel if you have it and fill series in the next or previous column


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Nick
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 01:31 PM

Scroll down to meetings and participants

I dare say if the worst came to the worst you could copy and paste it into notepad


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 11:36 AM

Mrr - the animated Aurora Borealis comes with Zoom, as does an animated beach scene. After the beach scene is a gorgeous mountain shot. I don't know if it came from Zoom, or if it's a photo I took in the Rockies or the Alps. Maybe I should take credit for it until proved otherwise....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 08:23 AM

About green screen... I stuck a greenish bath towel up with pushpins, and got two cheap bendy clip-on light sources that shine *on the towel* and it works great. I don't turn on my video on the Singaround, but I do for work. That is for my computer, not my phone. I usually do the Singaround on my phone so I can wii bowl instead of sitting still for that long.
What I have not yet gotten to function are animated backgrounds. I would love that aurora one, for instance, or lapping waves. Advice or links appreciated.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 07:41 AM

I have two large screens on a pole that is clamped to my desk, and that helps a lot. I can view 49 singers at once on one screen, and do research and whatnot on the other. It also worked when I was working on the songbooks - text of the book on one screen, research on the other.
My biggest issue with Zoom singarounds, is keeping track of singers. Numbering them helps a lot. If I could only copy the list of singers, and then sort the list in numerical order....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: GUEST,Bedford UK Zoom Host
Date: 31 Jul 20 - 06:30 AM

Hi,

The list of members of Zoom can be found by clicking "participants" at the bottom of the screen. However, they will move up and down the list as their microphones are triggered. The screens also move around if someone turns off their video or their broadband drops out. I ended up just noting people's names down in the order they arrive with an old fashioned pencil & paper. But since our club also expects a report that works well, since I can write the songs they performed next to the names. The most we've had is 17 performers.

Re the host thing, you can hand off your hosting duties to someone (click "more" next to their name in the participants screen and select "make host") and then you can do what you like, including leaving the meeting. As they are now the host, it continues to run. If you want it back, they need to do the same thing and do "make host" for you.

I don't allow people to interrupt others performing, although if someone is having massive tech problems I will chat to them jokily whilst they deal with it so they don't feel "on the spot" quite so much and to see if I can help. Anyone else interrupting/tuning up gets muted immediately.

Suzy


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 11:03 PM

Firstly, I think you've been running the sessions very well, Joe – the "rules" you have are for the benefit of the sing and trying to give everyone a go (or two), rather than for your own benefit.

Sorry to hear about the family emergency, by the way; it must have been stressful to be worrying about the Mudcat zoom on top of whatever the emergency was (hope it was ok in the end).

As for co-hosts, I've been informed that you need to be there at the start of the meeting in order to start it, but immediately after that, you can designate a co-host and hand off to them.

I run a small zoom sing for a local charity, which has a business subscription that allows them to designate different people to run different sessions – but apparently that requires a rather expensive business subcription.

I've had the idea of organising some kind of network of folk groups who want to run sessions and might be interested in all contributing a small monthly sum for the privilege of being able to take turns using zoom (many sessions meet just once a month, which doesn't seem worth paying a subscription for), though I'm busy enough with other things I'm doing to be daunted by the thought of trying to organise it myself. I also don't really know enough about zoom, at the moment; I've no idea what the various subscription levels cost, or how many different hosts are permitted, etc. But it's definitely something to think about for some of us... (Also, perhaps we should chip in towards your zoom subscription? It doesn't seem entirely fair that you bear all the cost yourself.)

There are also other virtual platforms which are free, full-featured and have better privacy than zoom (a techie friend recommends
Jitsi Meet), but zoom has become SO much the default I suspect most folks will resist having to download and get used to yet another programme/app – even if it's free and more secure.

As for keeping track of people, one session I attend (which regularly attracts ~25-35 singers) goes alphabetically by first name to help them keep track of who sings when (alternating each week whether they start from A or Z). Don't know if that would make it easier or harder for you, but it's a thought...

Regarding Severn's comment about "black chat messages flashing across the screen": my experience is that this happens when a person does not have the Chat sidebar already open; I find it pretty easy to ignore/much less distracting when a message appears in chat on the sidebar (although it may be different for others). I recommend having the Chat sidebar open if possible (although if you're zooming on your phone, that's not an option).

Finally, BIG THANKS to yourself, Noreen and Casey for running the sessions. I know from experience it's taxing enough to run a small session for a couple of hours, let alone a HUGE one for 4-5 hours (even with several people undertaking it), and you cannot relax and enjoy the session in the same way the other participants do.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 10:08 PM

Nick, thanks. Joe might find that helpful, especially if he has a big enough screen and the right CPU.

"Depending on your CPU, you can display up to 49 participants in a single screen of the gallery view. If more than 49 attendees are in the meeting, 49 thumbnails are displayed on each page."


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 07:21 PM

There seem to be 2 ways of seeing both the list of participants (if you are the host) and "Chat": the one version does flash up in the middle of the screen, which could be distracting to anyone performing at the time, but for the other, it all appears in a column at the right-hand side of the screen, away from all the mini-screens of the various participants. How it appears has something to do with how you set screen size, and the latter version is what I find easier to work with.
As for appointing co-hosts: I have tried to do this in advance of opening a meeting, but my requests were turned down as the people I nominated were not deemed to be Zoom account-holders (does these mean you have to be a paying Zoom member, as opposed to one using free Zoom? Seems so). However, with one session I host, I do largely hand it over to a friend to MC once we are all in, in terms of deciding who goes next. I just sit wielding the POWER over anyone who fails to mute voluntarily, and also put up any music scores required via screen sharing, and scroll them down/up as required.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Nick
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 06:28 PM

Gerry
Two screenshots then. What I understood is that the person running it is trying to keep track of a fluid system
49 thumbnails apparently... This is how to do it... and with two monitors... :)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Severn
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 10:12 AM

The reason for posting "everyone" posts right after the song ends is purely I deference to the singer, to avoid distraction and can fully enjoy the post. Any other chat, one can do as they will.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 03:21 AM

I've never seen any chat restrictions in a Zoom singaround. I think it's a great thing.
I've noticed in singarounds in Ireland, that everybody makes positive comments. It's wonderful how nice people can be.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: mg
Date: 30 Jul 20 - 02:30 AM

Unless host or hostess tells us not to, I post in chat at will. I have never seen a message come over my screen. Is there a way to block that? I find it very interactive to post while listening. I certainly don't mind if people do it to me.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Severn
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 08:17 PM

I have learned from being distracted when a black chat message flashes across the screen and realizing that I must've done it to others myself, that if you have a message to "everyone", especially about the song being sung, you wait until right after the song is over and applause is being given to post it so that nobody's stride gets broken midsong by someone telling you how flawless your performance is. People can get a quick chance to enjoy all the comments on a song at once, unless you have a long scholarly post and then you can post it at the next song break.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 07:57 PM

Nick, I'm not sure that works. If there are 40 people taking part, and the screen only shows 25 of them, then a screen shot isn't going to help you.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Nick
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 07:28 PM

Here’s a thought Joe. How. about you run a copy of something like techsmith capture or other screen grab that allows you to take a screen grab and make notes on it. You then have snapshot of the moment when you start and can tick people off as you go. You can take further shots as times goes on but it allows you to follow your list and make sure you are fair... or a fair dictator at least.

You’d have plenty of time just to check who’s next, are they still here? If not who's after etcetc As others join you just create a second screenshot and do the same etc If it’s a sing as you turned up it’s quite easy and would make sure you don’t forget anyone

May be over complicated. But I think it might work and you’d always know who is next and are they here.

I attended a zoom meeting with a particularly beautifully composed coronavirus behind me.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 01:05 PM

Yeah, I didn't want to deal with the sticky subject of offensive lyrics in the first place, so I stopped the discussion during the singaround. I moved the offensive lyrics posts into the thread on offensive lyrics, which is a good place for that discussion.

OK, about backgrounds. They didn't work with my 8-year-old computer, and Zoom was overloading that computer pretty badly and making it sluggish. So, at the height (depths) of the coronavirus shutdown, I bought a fairly powerful Dell computer. I think it was the most powerful out-of-the box computer they have. I would have had to wait 3 months or more for the custom-order computers. This one has a solid state drive, and I added the hard drive and data from my old computer. It also has 12 GB of RAM. I figured if it was still sluggish, I could add RAM or Intel Optane memory. What the Dell Website didn't say, is that you have to throw out the existing RAM or the SSD if you want more memory - and the memory costs $500 for 32 GB. So, I guess I'd better like what I have.

This $600 computer has an 8th generation Core I5 Intel microprocessor, which is fairly powerful. And it does generally fairly well with Zoom, although it slows down in long singarounds. I think I'm going to experiment with making Noreen host so I can log off and reboot (hoping Noreen will let me back in).

If you have a free or paid Zoom account, go to the "meetings" page. You'll see an option for My Personal Meeting ID (PMI). Start the meeting, and you should see yourself on the screen. On the lower left corner of the screen, you'll see selections for "Join Audio" and "Start Video." There's an up arrow next to the audio button, and an up arrow next to the video - those arrows give you all sorts of adjustments you can make on your audio and video - and the video arrow has one button named choose virtual background. There are some ready-made backgrounds you can use, and some are animated. There's a plus sign that allows you to upload a still or video background. But before you upload anything, try the ready-made examples and see if they work. If they don't, you can use a green screen behind you (or any solid background). But if your computer is powerful enough, you don't need a green screen.

So, that's the deal. That's how I stop people from having to look at my messy office - and I get to show off my photography. I like to use photos of the North Fork American River and the beautiful wildflowers that are right here by my home in the Sierra Foothills northeast of Sacramento.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 20 - 10:57 AM

This topic is about how to host a singaround on Zoom. The tech of it is a challenge; the arguing about what gets sung and how to deal with offensive verses are well-addressed and ongoing elsewhere in the Mudcat forum.

Joe, one of these days I'll figure out how to put in a different background than the bookshelf in my office. How did you put up the background you're using? I don't have a green screen. I've seen a button where you can do that, but I hesitate to play with it when I'm actually logged on in a meeting. When did you set up that background and do you have to set it up each time?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: leeneia
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 11:45 PM

I've attended some of the singarounds, and I think the sound quality is fine. I enjoy the variety of songs we get, and I like seeing people's faces.

I appreciate the time and commitment you make, Joe.
=================
How do you get those scenic backgrounds on your image?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 08:22 PM

The biggest problem and greatest stress that I have in hosting a singaround, is keeping track of the participants and making sure each one has a chance to sing. Renaming all the participants with a number before the name helps a lot, but the participants keep moving around on my screen and on the list of participants. If there were a way to put participants in numerical order, that would help a lot. Is there a way to lock the location of people on my screen, or to keep them in order on the screen or on the list of participants?

Mysha, as far as being dictatorial, what I mean is that I have to keep control of things so we do mostly singing and limit conversation. I've been to singarounds where people talk for five minutes or more between each song, and it's usually just a very few people who dominate the conversation.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Noreen
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 07:34 PM

Also, the two regular sings I have attended that have been YouTubed -Soundpost and the Goilin- when you enter you are informed that it is being recorded and if you join you are agreeing to being recorded.
Seems fair, and those who don’t want to take part and be recorded can just watch the live stream.
I’m fine with being recorded, it seems like a natural extension to the Mudcat resources.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Noreen
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 07:27 PM

There can be a live link on YouTube which can then be left on or deleted as required; the link to the YouTube recording can be kept secret or shared as agreed.
Logging on to the YouTube live/ recording is totally separate from the actual zoom room so will not increase chances of zoombombing- we have that cracked now anyway by manually giving access to the zoom through a waiting room for named individuals.
N.B. While I remember- I ejected someone yesterday as their screen name was just “iPad”. For security reasons we don’t let you in unless you have a name. (I gave them several chances to add their name but got no response). Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: mg
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 06:50 PM

I think whoever runs the show can make whatever rules they want. If you don't want to sing naked don't join that zoom.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 06:42 PM

"It's nice to have chit-chat between songs in smaller gatherings, but it just doesn't work when there are forty people lined up to sing. So, I do most of the talking between songs and act like an MC, and encourage people to stay muted unless they really have something to say. Maybe I'm too dictatorial, but I try not to be."

Joe, I'm happy with the way you have been running things.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 06:39 PM

Mrrzy, I haven't joined Mudcat, but I've joined the singaround for several weeks now.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 05:37 PM

I do not want to be broadcast on Facebook or Youtube. You wanna listen, sign in so I know you're listening. You don't have to sing, or turn on your video, but I don't like the idea of fb or yt randoes listening in.

Plus I am sure, in a total absence of knowledge, that that would make zoombombing easier for nasty pranksters.

If I can get my Tazzie sister to join the Singaround, Joe, can I send her the link or must she join Mudcat first? She would love to come sing if she can schedule a free Tuesday morning!

    Hi, Mrr. Feel free to give the Mudcat singaround link to anyone you know, but don't post it publicly where strangers can come across it. We were talking about broadcasting San Francisco's Camp Harmony on YouTube January 1, and I wanted to know if it would be possible. Participation in the Zoom session itself will be by registration.
    -Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: G-Force
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 05:08 PM

Yes, you can have a live link to Youtube. Our virtual club does that every week. We leave it up on Youtube for 48 hours so people can go back and see themselves, check their sound balance etc., then it is taken down.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Mysha
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 04:24 PM

Joe,

Memory: Seems to me that the least the seller of the computer with too little memory could do, would be to find out for you what to do about it. I wonder about the requirement, though. I run on 4G real and 4G virtual, and I can go for days without a restart. I don't see how that would be different if I manage to send more. (I can record on my computer now, even if not connected; but I don't know how to check the sending part, and I don't know how it's recording without a connection. Some more research is in order.) Was this new computer bought with the current crisis in mind? Then it should be sufficiently strong.

Dictatorship? Well, that'll eventually cause problems, regardless of how strict or gently it's done. People all have different limits (not the right word), and you can't dictate rules that'll work for everyone. E.g., all of MG's requests are things that I would not want to be dictated but that ought to be part of the mores. (Is that the right word in English? I think it is, but it may have slightly different nuances compared to the same word in other languages.) The bit about passing notes in class actually surprised me, as IRC solved that long ago and I don't understand why it's not built-in into Zoom if it's not.
Where was I?
Sooner or later, guiding the group will give problems; try to be fair but not panicky so. If everyone shows up for cocktails the next week, then things worked out fine.

"Original Sound on" does help when there is more than one source of sound. Singing along with acoustic instruments, it doesn't do a lot; it might do a bit more when you're singing along with your electronic Melodica. But the big difference ought to come when someone shouts "All together"! I don't know at what point it blows up everybody's computers and i-net connections, though. I expect it'll just compress all quality out of it trying to push it all through the wire, but I can't as yet test it. That reminds me: I was going to ask Ted Kaye what they are using for going virtual. Do you know? Maybe their community singing did link voices together.

Oh well. Since people came up with the resizeable edit windows, I sometimes write far too large messages. It's a bit of writing long messages for the lack of time to make them smaller.

BFN
Mysha


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 03:17 PM

SRS, that's what I thought, too - but Dell wants $500 for 32 GB of RAM for my computer. Not what I consider inexpensive - I had expected to pay $100. There are different types of RAM cards, and different speeds.

MG, I haven't seen anyone tell people not to use "chat" when others are singing. What I'm strict about, is people who unmute and SPEAK when somebody else is singing. I think that is horribly rude. I can name you certain people who do it habitually, and I watch the mute button and stomp on them any time they try to interrupt a song.

Another think I need to learn - can I have a Zoom singaround and have it broadcast live on Facebook or YouTube for people who just want to watch and listen?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: mg
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 02:34 PM

perhaps also ask them not to appear undressed or do their toileting rituals on camera


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: mg
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 02:25 PM

one thing i would like to see is people being encouraged to take themselves off video when they are eating. I am guilty of this myself but I try to be off video. It is just gross.

I also prefer not to be told not to use chat when someone is singing, but that is up to the leader and I will comply.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 01:24 PM

RAM is relatively inexpensive, Joe. You could replace the existing cards with larger ones and sell the original ones on eBay.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 10:56 AM

I've been afraid to try that, Acorn4. After about 4 hours, my computer gets sluggish and really seems to need a reboot. If I can leave the meeting and reboot and go back in again, my computer might be very happy.

Since my old computer was getting sluggish, I got a new computer with an 8th generation Core I5 microprocessor. It has 12 GB of built-in RAM, and I expected to add more. But Dell gave me only two RAM slots, so I have to throw out my old RAM if I want more. The new computer is pretty good, but it shows some signs of sluggishness like not being able to display letters as fast as I type them, and not displaying menus when I right-click - it sometimes lacks the crisp response I usually get with a new computer. The new computer is supposed to accept the new Intel Optane memory, but I'll be damned if I can find the slot for the memory card - maybe it's under the CPU fan.

It seems to me that Zoom is a memory hog, and I'm trying to learn how to deal with it.

I think people get obsessed with this "original sound" stuff. "Original Sound" does seem to help when people are singing with instruments, but not a capppella. I have a few participants who want to jump into the middle of a song and tell the singer to switch to "original sound" if the sound is muddy - and I have to be hard on these people who feel compelled to interrupt.

I think I'm having some success with turning off the video of singers with sound problems. I find mid-song verbal interruptions to be more jarring than having to listen to less-than-perfect sound - so I'm very hard on those who feel compelled to interrupt.

I open the doors for "cocktails and conversation" half an hour before singarounds, and this has been very nice. The Americans tend to dominate the conversation, so I do my best to make sure that all people from all nations are at least recognized. I'm finding that it's a good idea during the cocktail hour to introduce every singer and chat briefly with each one - and it also tests their sound.

It's nice to have chit-chat between songs in smaller gatherings, but it just doesn't work when there are forty people lined up to sing. So, I do most of the talking between songs and act like an MC, and encourage people to stay muted unless they really have something to say. Maybe I'm too dictatorial, but I try not to be. I went to one singaround where the host sang every song, and encouraged participants to sing along while muted. - now, THAT's a dictatorship.

Somebody yesterday wanted to discuss whether it was appropriate for another singer to use the word "Kanaka" in a song, and I nipped that discussion in the bud and said that we have to let people make their own choices about what they sing, and discuss that stuff in Mudcat threads.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 10:34 AM

My training is not happening today as it is the first day of registration, but I will ask someone.

When I was host without a cohost and my internet went down, it ended the meeting for everybody. I do not think that hosting can pass just to next person who logged in. But I could be wrong, easily.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Acorn4
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 09:35 AM

Had a situation last week where the host's internet went down. The host role then passes to the next person to log in assuming there is no co-host.

The good news is that if anything happens to the host's connection the session can still go on. Host will just need to login again.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 09:21 AM

In answer to Joe's question, I know if you start the meeting then make me host I keep all your people- and time- lack of limits, though I don't have a pro account. That is how my school will have me teach, through their pro account.
I have a zoom training meeting with them in about an hour and will ask about that. I'll report back.
I have gotten early to meetings and seen If you're the host, start the meeting, but haven't clicked to see if that makes me the host.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Acorn4
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 05:40 AM

The problem with Zoom is that it was not made for singing but conferencing and it will interpret long held notes and instruments as "background noise" and try to eliminate them. Enabling original sound cancels this and improves the musical sound.

It is also recommended to unclick "auto adjust volume" in the audio settings.

Have your own sound turned up to about 90/95%

It is also recommended to go into the "advanced" audio settings:-

make sure "enable original sound" is "on"

but "disable" both the settings relating to "persistent background noise"
but leave "echo cancellation" enabled.

This will ensure that you get a reasonable sound, although problems with internet connection can also affect things, but this is really out of your conttrol.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 04:04 AM

I *still* haven't been available on a Monday for this, sorry.

On a folk Zoom session I do attend, one participant is very keen we all use the 'Original Sound' option: this is in the audio settings. Clearly it does something, but exactly what is not explained anywhere I have seen. My guess is that it affects a gain control, so that the microphone sensitivity is not being continuously adjusted which would affect the dynamics. But honestly, that is just a guess what it does.


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Subject: Tech: Hints for Zoom Singaround Hosts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 20 - 03:31 AM

We've had our Mudcat Worldwide Singaround since early June, and it has been delightful. I think I'm attending 5 or 6 Zoom sessions a week. I've learned a lot about the technology of Zoom, but I can see I need to learn more.

I pay ten bucks a month for a "Pro" Zoom account, and that allows me to host 100 people for sessions of unlimited length. But today we had a family emergency (stepson's motorcycle crash - he's OK), and I thought I was going to have to cancel the singaround. If I had been forced to leave, what could I have done to avoid having to cancel the singaround? Do I have to give my user name and password to somebody else if I need a replacement, or what?

I have two very competent co-hosts, Noreen and Casey. Is there a way they could have opened and supervised the singaround?

-Joe-


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