BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 01:15 PM

There is no requirement for anyone to ‘pay for a dog licence’. Unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 12:31 PM

He doesn't pay for a dog licence!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 12:29 PM

Do none of your family claim benefits, Bonzo? I seem to remember saying you had a disabled wife. Are you missing out on a free handout for some reason?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 12:12 PM

As I have said a number of times, Labour does need to s6art to get their arse in key

From the BBC

Labour's Rosie Duffield says party has 'work to do' in South East

"Labour has "an awful lot of work to do" to win seats in parts of the South East, the party's Canterbury MP says.

Speaking at the Labour Conference, Rosie Duffield suggested her party had focused more on the North and Midlands.

"It feels a little bit as though Kent possibly doesn't matter as much as some of the other areas like the 'red wall'. she said.

The Labour Party said it was prioritising areas, including the South East, that had been "neglected".

Ms Duffield is the Labour Party's only MP in Kent, having won the once-Conservative stronghold of Canterbury in 2017.

Ms Duffield told BBC South East on Monday: "I'm the only one in Parliament talking about those issues with our farmers and the impact of Brexit and the things directly affecting us, like tourism. So it would be nice to know that Kent was being listened to.""

And

"Ms Duffield said the party needed to "show itself a bit more around Kent" if it wanted to win the next general election.

"It would be nice if we just felt that we were just as important," she said.

The MP said she was not aware of Sir Keir Starmer visiting the county since he became Labour's leader, but said he should come to Kent to understand more of the local issues.

Ms Nandy said on her next visit to Kent she would bring Mr Starmer with her, "to meet Rosie, and all those people she represents"."


I can remember going to hear Michael Foot give a speech to a packed and lively crowd here in Dover. By lively I do mean that some people had to be persuaded to leave. Those were the days.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 11:39 AM

Of course they'll be paying their taxes. But they were trained at public expense, then toddled off to work in a school to which most of the public can't afford to go to or are excluded from and which gets tax breaks at public expense. Still, I suppose it's worth it when we get people of the calibre of Johnson and Cameron... Oh, hang on...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 10:53 AM

"Top public schools benefit from charitable status and the teachers therein were largely trained in colleges founded at public expense and had their training paid for by the taxpayer"

And? Those working in those schools will be paying their taxes. Are you saying that all charities should not be allowed any tax advantages?


With regards to Rupa Huq's stupid comment, she was most likely just playing to her audience who probably lapped it up. Guess people might say she was aiming to be populist.

But

"In her letter to Kwarteng, Huq said she “spoke in haste and adopted clumsy language which in no way reflects my views or those of the Labour party” – and said during the fringe event she cited the fact that the Conservatives had had four black and Asian chancellors “as a positive”."

Something Labour could bear in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 09:22 AM

And actually, it doesn't say much for those top public schools when you consider that the dross who've been running the country into the ground for the last twelve years mostly went to them. Liz Truss, naturally, being a dishonourable exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 09:15 AM

Top public schools benefit from charitable status and the teachers therein were largely trained in colleges founded at public expense and had their training paid for by the taxpayer. Cheers.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 09:00 AM

What does ‘superficially black’ mean? If Kwasi Kwateng doesn’t sound black how should he sound innit??????????????????????????

More than half of all this is simply lefty envy at someone who went to a top public school, compared with someone who had a baby at 16 and sponged off the government for benefits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 06:35 AM

She has already apologised to the Chancellor and so I think she would willingly apologised to the house given the chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 06:12 AM

She called Kwarteng "Superficialy black". I can understand her comments as he did go to Eton and had a priviledged background, unlike so many other black people. However, weaponising someone's colour, gender, sexual orientation or anything else that they have no control over is unacceptable and it is right that she is suspended pending an investigation. I think if she were to apologise to Kwarteng and to the house, publicly, she would have done far more to atone than Bozzer ever did and should be readmitted with a caution. Just my view of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 06:04 AM

4000!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 06:02 AM

I hadn't seen all the details about Rupa Hoq but if even Angela Rayner said the remarks were unacceptable then it must be serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 04:38 AM

It’s a pity the press and media don’t seem to have noticed Krazy Kwarteng sitting in his pew, grinning like a Loon on Gak at the Queen’s funeral. If that had been a Labour politician, they’d have been all over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 04:26 AM

I've actually complained to the BBC in the past about Kirsty Wark (about how, in a particular interview, she blatantly indulged the Tory whilst not allowing the Labour spokesman to get a single sentence out). I got nowhere, of course. She was like a dog with a bone last night over the alleged racist remark by a Labour MP. It came up again on Today this morning and I thought Starmer handled it well, though the interviewer was less aggressive. It was a clasp-a-hand-to-the-head moment when I first heard about it yesterday, knowing how the media would go into a frenzy over it. Whilst not wishing to indulge in whataboutery here, I couldn't help recalling how the Tories managed to brush off Muslim women wearing letterboxes looking like bank robbers, flag-waving piccaninnies and bum boys in tank tops. A double standard, one which Labour have got to be a damn sight more savvy about.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 03:58 AM

Does anyone think the media is determined to try and make the Rupa Huq story into the new antisemitism charge against Labour?   It was very heavily pushed on Newsnight, more than most things that happened at conference, including, in my subjective view, than Starmer's speech. And here it is again being brought up in the early morning interviews.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 04:41 PM

‘Thick Lizzie’ and ‘Krazy Kwarteng’ here in The Backwoods. Sounds dead right!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 04:15 PM

apparently traders are referring to Truss as “Daggers” - as in Dagenham, 2 stops past Barking

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 10:58 AM

When the pound falls against the ruble, someone needs to U-turn, sharpish. I really, really hope that whichever scriptwriter put the "You turn if you like" joke into Maggie Hatchett's speech meets a suitably gory end: he or she has made it impossible now for *any* politician to admit they were in error, and need to correct the course of the country, in the light of fresh evidence. Even casino owners don't permit punters on a losing streak to double down on a bet more than once.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 10:50 AM

The greedy, incompetent, dishonest Tories are busy doing what they always do when they know the wheels are coming off and they’re f**ked - they’re doing a huge wealth-grab on behalf of the already-wealthy (which, of course, includes themselves), they’re deliberately tanking the economy, and they’re doing all this to leave huge problems for the incoming (hopefully Labour) government to have to solve and, in so doing, make themselves unpopular again.

‘A Parcel of Rogues’ barely covers it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 10:30 AM

What 60% tax rate might that be??

Starmer acquitted himself well in his speech. All aspiration, of course, and he was clearly cock-a-hoop about the great Tory implosion of the last few days. However, if he does get power he's got a lot of cleaning up to do, and it's got to be paid for sharpish.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 09:52 AM

The abolition of the 45% rate leaves in place the 60% tax rate suffered by thousands in the £100-£125,000 bracket, another threshold that has remained unchanged for many years.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 05:52 AM

So King Charles the Turd isn't a Tory then!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Sep 22 - 05:49 AM

New definition of a tory - someone who wouldn't give a toss if an older relative was to die of hypothermia because they can't afford to heat their homes, then start whining because they have to pay inheritance tax.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 06:21 PM

"England is inherently, irrevocably Tory."

England maybe. I have not checked the figures. The UK, certainly not.

Since 1945 we have always ended up with governments who have not been voted for by the majority of people in this country. More often than not that is a Tory government. That is the British way. Neither the Tories or Labour want to change that. Some of us think that is wrong but it is unlikely to change in the near future.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 05:03 PM

And so they should be!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 04:49 PM

Polly Toynbee has a piece in the Guardian today predicting that the catastrophes of recent times will see the Tories gone for a generation. Well I'm not so sure. This is an extract from a reader's comment on the article which exactly reflects what I think.

"I was SURE the electorate would never vote to cut ties with our closest and biggest trading partner and deny themselves free movement. I was SURE that no one could ever, seriously, with a straight face, vote for a comical ridiculous buffoon of an Etonian caricature to lead the country. I was SURE that absolutely no one could ever, seriously, with a straight face, endorse Thick 'This. Is. A. Disgrace!!' Lizzy as a world leader. Every time you put faith in the English electorate, you're setting yourself up for massive disappointment.

Best case scenario? Labour scrape a slim majority at the next election, and find themelves faced with a country absolutely destroyed by the scorched earth of 2 years of Trussonomics. No way they can fix it in 5 years, by which time the Tories will have a new face at the helm with a "bold, new vision" who has spent years shifting onto Labour the blame for everything wrong with the country they inherited, and the masses rush to tick their nice, familiar Tory box in 2029. Tories gone for a generation?? Not even if they slaughtered our first-born. England is inherently, irrevocably Tory."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 02:40 PM

"But will he U-turn? Why, of course not!"

Even you would not expect a U turn after a couple of days. The markets will do what markets do. Some people will make a lot of money from 'gambling' on the markets. Such is modern life. We will have to wait and see how it turns out.

Imagine the coverage if it was a Labour government pursuing these policies. Money trees appear to grow on money trees these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 02:40 PM

I think that could yet turn out to be another Starmer blunder.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 01:26 PM

From live reporting:

Labour conference votes to put pledge to introduce PR in manifesto - despite Starmer already ruling it out
The proportional representation motion has been carried.

There is quite loud cheering – even though Keir Starmer has said he will ignore the vote, and not include PR in the Labour manifesto.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 11:20 AM

At least Jonathan Pie can see Tories for the greedy, self-serving, arrogant bunch of shits they undoubtedly are.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 11:11 AM

A fall in the higher rate tax band from 45% to 40% means that bonuses and dividends will need to be delayed until the new tax year to pay the lower rate of tax - good tax planning!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 08:01 AM

I wonder what’s happened to our resident Tory-Greed-and-Selfishness Apologists this morning? Why aren’t they here explaining to us all how Schrodinger’s Vote works - how voting Tory, and thus against our own best interests, would be in our best interests?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 06:17 AM

This is serious. Kwarteng has signalled that more tax cuts are to come, a move that has completely spooked the markets and investors. Looks like the Bank of England will have to do an emergency hike in interest rates to control inflation. I hope all those mortgaged middle-Englanders who voted Tory are happy now. On Friday afternoon, the tax cuts were described as "a gamble." It's only Monday morning and it's crystal clear that the gamble has failed. But will he U-turn? Why, of course not!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 06:01 AM

I've pinched that, John :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 03:04 AM

Sterling falls to record low against the US Dollar.

And the BBC are reporting this morning that the value of the pound fell overnight to an even lower level - $1.04 - close to parity! Will someone remind us which party claims to be the Party of financial competence and responsibility, please?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 02:35 AM

Sorry, mistyped. Should read nearly half of the tax cuts goes to the top 5% of earners who get thousands.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 22 - 02:32 AM

Yes, Nigel. I just said that! My point is that those not paying tax - IE the poorest - are getting no help while nearly half of the top 5% of earners get thousands.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 08:19 PM

Dave:
If they are on the living wage, but not working full time they may not be paying tax.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 02:10 PM

”You have no idea do you, Bonzo.”

He gets it alright, Dave. He’s just being a bell-end. Ignore him.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 01:40 PM

If they are on a living wage and working full time they pay tax, Nigel, I don't undertand your point.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 01:36 PM

You have no idea do you, Bonzo. There are many who, through no fault of their own, simply cannot earn enough. Their fuel and food bills are going up as much as those who earn £150K+ a year yet they get nothing while those who do not need it are getting thousands back in tax reductions.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 01:35 PM

and those not earning enough to pay tax get sweet FA.
Except for those working for employers who have signed up to the 'Living wage' which has just increased by approximately 10%

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 01:22 PM

If they haven't paid any tax then there's no need for them to get any back. They get benefits for doing nothing, dropping babies and generally skiving.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 01:12 PM

Them nits are getting well picked. Whether it is half or nearly half does not matter at all Nigel. The point is that while the top 5% get the lions share the rest of us still struggle and those not earning enough to pay tax get sweet FA.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 12:09 PM

Dave:
The Independent is behind a paywall (or sign up for a free trial)
City A.M. does indeed have the same headline, but goes on to quote the actual statement: “45 per cent will go to the richest five per cent alone, who will be £8,560 better off.

Yes, it is all a matter of degree, but then why make unsubstantiated claims (of 'half') rather than quoting what the Resolution Foundation actually says (45%)?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 11:15 AM

Try This one, Nigel

Or this one

And what does it matter if 49% rather than 50 % is going to the top 5%? It would be wrong even if 30% or 40% was going to those who do not need it!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 11:00 AM

Come now, Nigel, that news is all over the place now.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 10:57 AM

Steve:
If you google "half the tax cuts go to the richest five percent" you'll get lots of backup for that, Nigel, including from the Resolution Foundation. Go for it!
As suggested I googled that, complete with quote marks, and got no hits.

I also tried it without the quotes and got the Guardian where, after using a version of the above headline they immediately corrected themselves, saying: Almost half of the personal tax cuts in the mini-budget will go to the richest 5% of the population, according to analysis by leading economic thinktanks.

Fortunately I don't rely on people quoting headlines, but read a little further.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Sep 22 - 10:26 AM

You didn't need to use so many adjectives, Raggy. Just Tory would have done.