BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 03:13 AM

The VAT implications of an EU based business selling to the UK now are VAT consultant territory, unbelievably complicated.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 03:43 AM

And the VAT Consultants and Shipping-Brokers are clueless too. Mrs Backwoodsperson is the Logistics/Operations Manager for one of the UK production sites of a US-owned business with multiple locations in the EU and the UK. She currently has thirty-plus shipments to the EU held up at UK ports, Groupage warehouses, and her own warehouses, because no-one is able to determine what documentation is needed, or they are unable to obtain it. Add to that the fact that hauliers are refusing to collect loads because they don’t want their trucks to get ‘stuck’, and you have an almighty - and very expensive - fuck up. Many thousands of pounds of demurrage charges already, and we’re only three weeks in.

No wonder her employers are now considering whether to pull out of the UK altogether, and concentrate their production in the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 04:41 AM

I imagine that most of the confusion is down to the fact that terms were only agreed days before we left. As I have said before, both sides are to blame for that.

Hopefully things will settle down soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 04:43 AM

But hey, we ‘Took are cuntry back’ and Nigs got his blue passport, so all’s well with the world, innit? Can't wait for those ‘sunlit uplands’ the Wide-Mouthed Frog and his nitwit followers promised us.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 04:52 AM

Our VAT consultant is not clueless at all, how can you generalise?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

I’ll take your word on that, Bonz - I’ve been retired from the Accounting world for nine years, so I’m out of touch and only have hearsay from my former international colleagues to go by.

But, of course, I was talking more specifically about the problems of logistics, movement of goods, etc. There’s no doubt that, prior to the end of December, and despite that fat buffoon with no dress-sense and the world’s worst haircut telling businesses to ‘prepare for Brexit’, there was little or no information available for businesses to study in order to ‘prepare’ themselves.

In the same way that businesses are struggling to export goods to EU countries, they are also suffering from the same kind of difficulties importing. My wife’s company brings a great deal of raw material in from the EU - a straightforward matter pre-31/12/21 - but, since then her suppliers have managed to get just one shipment across. Like U.K. hauliers, their EU counterparts are having the same problems with documentation and hauliers being reluctant to take the work on for fear of their trucks getting ‘stuck’ here and unable to get back. Fortunately, she foresaw the coming fuck-up, and stockpiled material in the last quarter of 2020, but that’s being used and needs to be replenished - no sign of that happening short-term.

But never mind, the cabal of immensely wealthy individuals who pull the Tory strings and drove the BrexShit campaign can rest easy, knowing their tax-dodging can continue unhindered....

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:15 AM

And that should have been 31/12/20 of course!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:17 AM

stockpiled material in the last quarter of 2020

As did many others. Stockpiling is a great way of buying time while the problems are sorted, and with luck they get sorted out in time to restore a normal flow before the stockpile runs out. But is it far from certain.

That may be why haven't had too many supply problems yet. If the problems are sorted, we won't either. But if they are not, the issues will really start to bite once the stockpiles are used up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:46 AM

And of course, stockpiling comes at a cost, DMcG - not least storage costs. My wife is having to store materials in hired warehousing because her own warehouses can’t cope with it, and of course moving materials between hired warehousing and the production facility has to be paid for too.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 07:59 AM

Of course, stockpiling of RM runs directly contrary to her company’s ‘Just In Time’ operating culture, and it has to be paid for - tying up large amounts of cash in inventory. So it’s a multiple-whammy. Not good for business at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 09:27 AM

The distribution company who have my goods at the moment have had those goods since the 6th January.

From my conversation with a chap there this week nothing has left their facilities bound for the UK and you may remember I placed my order with a company in Northern Ireland.

Utterly shambolic, and I have to say, typical of this governments handling of matters.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 09:32 AM

Just as an aside has anyone else noticed that although we Brits are limited to one thread the Americans at the moment have at least four.

Just saying like ............ :-0

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 09:49 AM

Yes, there are many costs connected with stockpiling that I didn't go into: my comments was all about supplying the market. As you say, it ties up company money and, if they have to hire additional warehouses, has direct costs as well.

My best guess is that Just-in-Time systems will have to change to 'small stockpile' systems. Whatever system you use, you need the 'demand' to equal the 'supply'.   So conceptually you always have a supply, a buffer area to smooth out variation and a demand that takes things out of the buffer. Just-in-Time is about making the buffer as close to zero as possible. I suspect that for the foreseeable future we will have to have lots of 'non-empty' buffers to smooth out delivery issues. Which, as you say ties up company money and may incur additional warehousing costs.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:26 AM

Just a quick one with no links - wife is insisting I get on with something..

BBC news items over last couple of days about container hire costs
rocket inflating by thousands of £££;
and UK businesses contemplating burning goods held up in Europe,
as less financial loss than continued increasing storage expenses...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 01:11 PM

There is an article in the press today were a cheese supplier in Cheshire states he has to provide a health certificate costing £180 on all his exports to the EU.

Those include his personal packs of cheese which would normally retail about £25- 30.

Guess what happens next!

Cheese

I doubt if anyone who actually voted for Brexit conceived this would happen but some of us who voted remain suggested it may well do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 02:17 PM

This is a good one!

Set up shop in EU

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 03:04 PM

Pfr.The problem with container prices mainly relates to non EU imports and is mostly due to covid related problems. Too many empty containers here resulting in a shortage of containers available to load abroad.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 04:43 PM

Rain Dog - fair enough..

I mentioned I was posting in a hurry, so couldn't verify by googling for links,
on what I thought I remembered from the news..

.. consider my botty spanked for spreading inaccuracies...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 06:02 PM

'I doubt if anyone who actually voted for Brexit conceived this would happen but some of us who voted remain suggested it may well do so.'

Seriously Raggytash?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 03:22 AM

I'm sure Raggytash will answer for himself, Rain Dog, but it you follow the arguments about Brexit then yes, seriously. Any mention of the adverse effects of Brexit have been jumped on by Brexiteers in politics, the press and even here on Mudcat as "project fear". Of course now they are saying they always expected some disruption. But that is not how it was sold or told. Nor has that disruption or the cost ever been quantified. I may have said "I doubt that anyone who voted for Brexit was informed that this may happen by the powers that be" but the spirit of Raggytash's comment is both serious and accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 04:13 AM

But that is not how it was sold or told.

Quite. I did spend around five minutes looking for any occasion when any of the Brexit supporters who are here or are no longer with us said there would be such disruption, but really it is not worth the effort; far too many posts to plough through.

From memory, all I can recall from before, say, the Dec 2019 election is an agreement there may be some short term disruption. Not 'will be', mind, but 'may be'. Also that this would last for an unspecified 'short term'. I mention that because charges due to customs fees are not short term under any sensible definition: they will be retained unless there are specific negotiations to eliminate that: setting up something like a single market, for instance.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 04:32 AM

Also that this would last for an unspecified 'short term'.

I should have given an honourable mention to Keith there, who was prepared to say when he said "short term", he meant "up to six months."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 04:41 AM

As predicted, food prices moving.
In my local supermarket bread & yoghurt up. Short shelf life.
Brie, all the way from la Belle France not gone up yet. But it has a long shelf life & there are warehouses in the UK. Watch this space.

Yea, Yea. Natural inflation and COVID can be blamed. They will be, it hides the Brexshit contribution.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 08:07 AM

Here ya go - the chickens are coming home to roost.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 09:29 AM

Yes seriously Rain Dog.

Many of us remainers were suggesting that post brexit costs and administration would escalate to a point were some firms would no longer be viable.

We suggested that jobs would be exported and that unemployment in the UK would rocket.

I think that what we are seeing at the moment is merely the tip of the iceberg.

I recall posting on one occasion that one of my insurance underwriters had already transferred some of their operation to the EU in anticipation of excessive red tape here. I was told at the time I was talking nonsense, despite having quoted from a letter of explanation from the company detailing why they had moved.

So yes seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 01:06 PM

Great to see we ‘Took are cuntry back’, and we’re benefitting from the ‘sunlit uplands’ the Brexiteers promised us...the government are now recommending U.K. businesses to set up in the EU.

You really couldn’t make this lunacy up, could you?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 01:44 PM

And, Backwoodsman, they are in effect saying drop any other investment plans you have and spend you own money to overcome the limitations of this deal we have agreed. If you don't have the resources, or it doesn't work out, we guess you just aren't working hard enough to resolve the issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 09:14 AM

One of the undeniable benefits of brexit, courtesy of the Daily Mash. I'm sure that Nigel will be enthusiastically applauding in agreement when he reads it:

SUPERMARKETS are suffering fresh food shortages. So that’s another benefit of Brexit. Leave voter Steve Malley explains the dangers of fresh fruit and veg.

You could stab yourself

Opening a tin? Safe. But unlike baked beans or Big Soup, fresh vegetables frequently need to be cut up. One slip slicing a carrot and you’ve put a knife through a major artery. In your panic you might then trip and stab yourself in the brain. Is it worth it just to eat a la-di-da courgette?

You’re exposing yourself to deadly acid

Fruit is rammed with dangerous citric acid. That can’t be safe. Remainers might complain about not being able to get fresh grapefruit, but should you listen to these idiots when they’re pretty much taking a swig from a car battery?

We didn’t evolve to eat salad

Humans only evolved hands to carry spears. That’s science. If we’d been intended to eat plants and grass we’d have hooves and be covered in wool like sheep. That’s not just my opinion, it’s the view of a great British hero you might have heard of – Charles Darwin.

Weakness, fainting and coma

Fruit and vegetables contain almost no nutrients compared to superfoods like sausages. If there’s more than a couple a week in your diet, you’ll gradually grow weaker and your teeth will fall out before you faint and slip into a coma. That’s your choice, but I have to be more responsible because I’m an HGV driver.

They’re a choking hazard

There’s no danger of choking on traditional British foods like beef broth and Angel Delight. By contrast, look at the tough, leathery skin of a pear or grape. You may as well be eating a bag of washers.

Food hygiene

You don’t get more hygienic than fresh out of the tin. However, fresh fruit and veg is grown in fields where mice and birds can shit on them. You wouldn’t get a seagull to crap on your bacon sandwich, so why take the risk with fruit and veg? We’re better off without.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 04:57 AM

Boris Johnson salary =143,789
Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £24,214
As of 1 October , the salary for a student nurse on 36 weeks placement stood at €15,056, according to the INMO. This works out at almost €11 per hour.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:56 AM

And your point is?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM

my point, fairly obvious.
nurses are doing a good job but not getting paid enough
Capitalism works on the basis of supply and demand, we have empty field hospitals and not enough nurses to work in them , pay them more. WE MIGHT SOLVE THE SHORTAGE OF NURSES
Boris Johnson however is not doing a good job and getting paid too much in comparison
Raggytash , do you think the nurses are doing a good job and do you think Johnson is doing a good job., and deserves to be paid more than nurses
Raggytash, are you one of those people that think giving the nurses a clap is sufficient.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM

Dick - so how many nurses have you given the clap...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:43 AM

Yes I do think a Prime Minister should be paid more than a nurse.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:50 AM

All public service workers need to be paid more,
and the public sector needs to be expanded to realistic effective levels.

This should be regarded as an apolitical pragmatic priority for any Govt running Britain.

But we know it will never happen under tory ideological rule...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:55 AM

Consider how many necessary public sector real jobs could be created
with all the public money being frittered away wasted on furlough schemes,
temporarily propping up doomed private companies...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 11:01 AM

I think Nurse Ratched should be paid more than the current Prime Minister. And has more heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 03:36 PM

Consider how many necessary public sector real jobs could be created
with all the public money being frittered away wasted on furlough schemes,
temporarily propping up doomed private companies...???

As important as medics, educators and the emergency services are, don't put down people who actually make things that people need? Of course, the public sector jobs you are hoping to create could be yet more bureaucrats to deal with the long line of unemployed workers from the manufacturing sector that you seem to want to destroy.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 03:45 PM

Doug - eh...?????????

Putting down...?????


Want to destroy...??????


.. oh I get it.. you've made up something in your own mind,
which you seem to have convinced yourself
was my intended meaning..

Then responded as though I'd actually written it..

I understand now..

Nah Doug, you got all that wrong...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 03:57 PM

If you say that I have got it wrong, then maybe so but the idea of

... public money being frittered away wasted on furlough schemes...

suggests to me that you disapprove of efforts being made to preserve jobs in the private sector.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 04:15 PM

Doug - ok, seriously..

A well-placed qualifying "all" or "some" would have made that clearer, I admit.

Though as I often write quickly between and during chores,
I do tend to think in terms of essential principles rather than specifics..

Sometimes perhaps a little too over generalised...???

But usually I know when I'm doing that for deliberate polemical effect.

However the point still stands that furlough billions from the tories' amazing magic money tree forest could, in some cases,
be better used...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 03:09 AM

Raggytash please read my post again.
I see that there are not enough nurses solution give them a pay rise.
I also see Boris Johnson has not done his job with competence, I think he is over paid in comparison to nurses.
The question of whether any prime minster should be paid more than nurses, that is a completely different question ,and you know that, that too is debatable considering that the civil service make a lot of decisions and are permanent whilst prime minsters come and go, but that was not being proposed by me.
that is a slightly different subject
Raggytash, do you seriously think Johnson is doing a better and more important job than the nurses.
Do you also think that in these present times, the job of this prime minster based on his lack of achievement with brexit and his inept handling of covid, means he deserves such a huge plus in salary compared to a nurse.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 04:57 AM

Do you also think that in these present times, the job of this prime minster based on his lack of achievement with brexit and his inept handling of covid, means he deserves such a huge plus in salary compared to a nurse.

Yes!

Someone, at a pay grade above that of the nurses, needs to ensure that nurses are available at every hospital, and that the flow of nurses to different hospitals is maintained.

Someone else needs to ensure that the government coffers have sufficient money to pay the nurses.

Someone needs to be able to obtain PPE and vaccines in a time of global shortage. They also need to be able to access government (our) funds to pay for these things.
In order to have the funds to buy PPE & vaccines the country needs to have a continuing and effective treasury/economy.

The Left are happy to blame everything on Boris, saying that it is all his responsibility. If the responsibility is his, then the pay should be commensurate with that level of responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 05:18 AM

Absolutely cracking article in the Independent on Boris and Covid deaths

Starts with

The prime minister is obviously too sad and grief stricken about the Covid death toll to face the consequences of his government’s mishandling of the pandemic

Which should give a measure of the tone :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 06:42 AM

I would agree, Nigel, that someone with all those responsibilities should be well paid.

But there was an interesting article in the Telegraph that is related to this. It is behind a paywall so you may mot be able to read the full thing, but here is an important paragraph:

This is not a product of one government’s incompetence. It reflects deep-seated changes in the way state power is conceived and organised – by political parties of left and right, not just in Britain but in many other “advanced” economies. A system built around dispersing responsibility, accountability and control is, unsurprisingly, irresponsible, unaccountable, and not in control of its fate.

Most of the things you refer to, Nigel, have been delegated, with the result that the Government says the PPE problems were not theirs, they were PH(E) failures, and so on.

I would say the government does merit those salaries if it is responsible for the things you mention (and others). If, however, it delegates all responsibility it does not.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 09:45 AM

Let's just say Boris and tory ministers
are lucky they are not remunerated only by performance related salaries..

.. unless we live in a warped universe where negligently killing higher numbers of British citizens
results in more lucrative commissions and pay bonuses...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 11:52 AM

Oh I don't know Punkfolkrocker, just think of the cash savings of not having to pay pensions in the future to 100,000 people and the monies saved by the NHS of not having to treat 100,000 people in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 11:55 AM

Raggy - That's no joke..
A year ago I was cynically convinced tories had started doing those maths...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM

Does anyone have any info on a brexit customs mix up, is what i found correct
A key U.K. government customs system has been overwhelmed within weeks of Brexit and threatens to trigger more disruption as freight traffic increases.

Exporters say they are struggling to acquire transit documents, which allow goods to enter the European Union without delay, because of a shortage of agents with the authority to issue them.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 07:56 AM

It’s correct, there are major problems with both import and export documentation and customs. Some hauliers are now refusing to even pick loads up from customers until all documentation has been submitted to them which, for a number of reasons, is difficult, even impossible in some circumstances.

Shipping Agents are overwhelmed, the HMRC system is overloaded, close to overwhelmed. Customers are playing holy fuck. My wife is the Logistics Operations Manager for the U.K. division of a world-wide petro-chemical company with numerous processing plants in the EU, and they have managed to get three out of around forty shipments across since the 4th January. She’s tearing her hair out, and says that Leave-voters should all be lined up against a wall and machine-gunned.

The dozy buggers didn’t put any of this shit on their big red f***ing bus, did they? All we heard about was ‘sunlit uplands’, ‘take are cuntry back’, and blue passports.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 11:18 AM

Adam Payne reported from live from the House of Parliament:

A penny-drop moment, as Gove admits “there are a number of issues that I would not describe as a teething problems. They are significant issues which bear on the lives of people...”. He calls on GB-NI grace periods (doesn’t say which) to be extended to avoid shortages of goods.
12:59 PM · Feb 2, 2021


Here is the relevant Hansard section:

Michael Gove

My right hon. Friend is right that the problem needs to be addressed both in the short and in the medium to long term. In the short term, there are a number of issues that I would not describe as teething problems; they are significant issues that bear on the lives of people in Northern Ireland, which do need to be resolved. We need to make sure that grace periods are extended. We need to make sure that supermarkets and other traders can continue—as they are at the moment—to be able to supply consumers with the goods that they need. There are a number of specific issues and they extend, as I mentioned earlier, to everything from pet transport to the provision of plants and seeds to gardens in Northern Ireland. The daily life of our fellow citizens does need to be protected and we must deal with all those questions. In the medium to long term, it is important that we take all the steps required to ensure that citizens in Northern Ireland recognise that they are an integral part of the UK and that their daily lives and the way in which this Parliament works reflect that fully.