BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 01:07 PM

Ouch!
It is sad to see the PM and his office fall so far below the standards of competence and integrity the country deserves

I am no fan of Cummings, but I have to agree with him on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Apr 21 - 01:57 PM

Yet again you have to ask who is advising the PM on PR. Is it the same people who were advising the ESL clubs? How some people get paid I will never know.

Will this end up the 1000th post?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 04:36 AM

Well done for the 1000 Dave :-)

Couldn't agree more about Cummings. Shifty sod that he is, he has shown in his blog that Bozzer and his pals are a devious and corrupt bunch. I think that they will try to get away with it by brazening it out but it will come back to bite their bums.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 07:17 AM

Excellent piece in today’s Independent - I wonder what our resident apologists for the corrupt crooks of the Tory government will have to say about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 07:44 AM

"resident apologists" or people who just don't agree with you?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 10:27 AM

Anyone trying to justify the corruption of the current administration is an apologist, Rain Dog. If you disagree with that, fine. It still makes you an apologist so your last remark does not make a lot of sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 10:36 AM

Damned if you apologize, damned if you don't.
Does justifiable corruption exist? It depends on who you defend.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 11:35 AM

No, sorry Donuel. Apologising for not acknowledging black and Asian troops who were killed in WW1 is acceptable. Trying to justify a government that gets its friends rich by corruption is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Apr 21 - 03:25 PM

”resident apologists" or people who just don't agree with you?”

Whether they agree with me is irrelevant. It’s not a case of opinion, evidence of the corruption of Ali Baba Johnson and The Forty Thieves is piling up. My question is, how will their bewitched and delusional supporters attempt to naysay that evidence?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 01:30 AM

perhaps a law should be passed that MPS should not have any outside representation, that they should only be paid to represent their constituents.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 02:18 AM

of course, i've always thought that representing the interests of 60-70,000 constituents would be a full-time job. doing any other job at the same time would inevitably lead to a conflict of interests and of your MP's time.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 02:33 AM

Looks as though the worms may be turning - even the Daily Heil giving negative reports on Johnson. With the negative reporting currently happening, and his former chief advisor openly inserting the blade between his 3rd and 4th ribs, the campaign to oust Johnson before Christmas seems to be ramping up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 02:48 AM

Trouble is, who would replace him? We need someone honest, truthful and compassionate. I don't think there is anyone amongst the current crew who fits the bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 03:57 AM

The problem is that the Conservative Party is dedicated to a culture of selfishness and greed, and is mired in deceit and corruption. In that regard, one Tory is very much like the next - the only answer is for Labour to defeat them soundly at a GE but, while the LP is more interested in fighting internal wars and undermining its own leadership that it is in fighting the worst, most corrupt Tory government in living memory, there’s little or no chance of that happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 05:11 AM

”...fighting internal wars and undermining its own leadership that it is in fighting the worst, most corrupt Tory government in living memory...”

Than it is...!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 09:19 AM

Signs that we are coming out of lockdown and returning to normality..

The tory backstabbing and throat cutting competition reality show is back on our TVs..

It's always guaranteed top entertainment, and never disappoints keen viewers.
Fans of the show can look forward to a thrilling new season of all the usual ruthless ambition deceit and sleaze
that keeps viewers glued to the screen..

Insider rumours hint this could be a return to the thrills and chilling horrors of the greatest unforgettable villains off classic seasons of the past..

If speculation is true that this might be the last series, we can hope for a gloriously spectacular finale of bloodletting and gore.
With the prospects of future sequels and spin offs, with new cast members and some surviving old Favourites..

Who will they be, is it too much to hope for the shocking surprise return of fan favorites from earlier seasons...???

I'm getting too excited already...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 03:20 AM

Never sure which thread to use for any subject that has any connection to the UK

From the BBC this morning

"All fixed penalty notices for Covid lockdown breaches, which can be as high as £10,000, should be reviewed - according to a parliamentary committee.

The system is "muddled, discriminatory and unfair", MPs on the Joint Committee on Human Rights argued.

More than 85,000 fixed penalty notices have been issued in England since the pandemic began, and 8,000 in Wales."

Lockdown fines should be reviewed

Hopefully when things finally return to normal, it will be interesting to see how many of these have been paid and/or if they are found to have been invalid.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 04:14 AM

Selfish arseholes who flagrantly defied lockdown restrictions, safe distancing, and mask wearing
should not now be let off any fines they received for risking other citizen's health and lives..

This would now send all the wrong signals to the ideologues, zealots, agitators, and all other anti social libertarian covid denier wankers..

Especially the lethal organized element within the tory govt...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 06:42 AM

From today's Guardian reporting on the same matter.

"Large fixed penalties awarded irrespective of the individual’s circumstances “risk being inherently unjust” and the current system “criminalises the poor over the wealthy”, the committee members warn.

They say there should a graduated approach to FPN amounts and people should not face a criminal record for non-payment, questioning “why a breach of the coronavirus regulations would be relevant to someone’s future employment prospects or ability to travel to certain countries”."

All Covid fines in England should be reviewed say MPs

I think if these cases go to court quite a few will end up being dismissed.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 07:53 AM

Any labour or liberal politicians backing this crackpot review of fines,
needs to pull their heads out of their arses..

.. and consider the ramifications
of a long summer of selfish reckless fuckwits who know there won't be any punishments for wilfully disobeying rules, and spreading the next lethal wave amongst us..

It's easy to understand tories not wanting to lose their new working class voters at any cost.
But now it appears even the likes of Harriet Harman are putting gaining back votes over heaping piles of thousands of bodies.

She's either blatantly cynical or very naive...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 08:55 AM

I don't think they are saying do away with the regulations and enforcement of the regulations. There is mention of 65 changes to the regulations since first introduced. Some police forces have said that the regulations and subsequent changes have been confusing at times. It also remains to be seen if the law has been applied correctly or not.

Will all the fines be paid? I think it is safe to say that they will not. It remains to be seen if they will prosecute people for non payment, given the huge backlog of court cases that we already have.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 09:33 AM

Ok, the rules governing fines were carelessly bodged and hastily rushed through by a consistently inept government..

That's easy enough for folks not to disagree with.

This has left the police confused and occasionally overzealous.

But this new committee review will inevitably be appropriated to suit the agenda of opportunist right-wing libertarians,
taking advantage of kind hearted misguided lefty liberal human rights advocates..

The end results being even more positive signals sent out to society's arsholes to continue wilfully riding a wave spreading disease throughout the summer and autumn.

How big a pile of thousands of bodies can be costed in as acceptable collateral damage;
just so a committee of politicians and other idealogues can wallow in their own self-indulgent academic legalistic principles...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 09:56 AM

I didn't need the threat of fines to keep me from following the recommendations. I think it is safe to say that the majority of people didn't need that threat either.

I have guessed that a lot of your previous posts are intended to raise a smile pfr, with your right wing this and your right wing that. I hope that your lurch to authoritarian views,and your dismissal of any contrary views, are not symptoms of either long covid, covid induced psychosis or merely the intended results of the vaccine.

Sunny day here today and a little warmer. I am off to the pub shortly and hope to avoid picking up any fines on my way there and back.

Stay safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 10:14 AM

Staying safe is my primary principle,
They're all trying to kill me...

By the way, nowt wrong with being a lefty with a respect for discipline..

On law and order issues my views would make many mail and express reader "hang 'em then flog 'em then hang 'em again" tories feel uncomfortably queasy...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 29 Apr 21 - 02:44 PM

MPs urge Government to level playing field for meat and seafood exporters

"In its new report—Seafood and Meat Exports to the EU—the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (EFRA) Committee expresses urgent concerns for exporters of highly time-sensitive fresh and live seafood and meat shipments to the EU, particularly small and medium sized businesses.

Despite overcoming initial "teething problems" the new barriers small seafood and meat export businesses face could render them unviable, and factories and jobs may relocate to the EU."

And

"The Committee criticises the fact that controls on EU seafood and meat imports will not commence until 1 October 2021, with checks at the border only commencing from 1 January 2022.

This has placed British businesses at a competitive disadvantage and reduced the incentive on the European Commission to negotiate measures that would lessen the burdens facing British producers."


Seafood and Meat Exports to the EU

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 10:40 AM

Would any of our resident Brexiteers care to comment on or argue against Poly Toynbee's analysis of Brexit?

Johnson’s legacy will be the bitter taste of Brexit

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Apr 21 - 08:24 PM

Dave:
I thought I'd give it a go. She doesn't make it difficult to disagree with her.
First paragraph (from your link):
Amid slippages, losses, vanishing investments and export drops, the drip, drip of Brexit damage never stops. I collect examples every week, as if picking up spent mortar rounds from a battlefield. On Wednesday, it was 450 jobs lost as car parts manufacturer Toyoda Gosei prepares to shut factories in Rotherham and Swansea, and relocate to the Czech Republic.
The link she gave in that paragraph, supposedly to support her argument was to the BBC. Unfortunately the BBC article says: The company, which produces components for Toyota, Nissan, Renault and Honda, said it was responding to changes in the global sector and a "significant reduction" in UK customer demand. AND "There isn't one factor that has resulted in the announcement today," added a spokeswoman.
Nowhere in the BBC article do they blame Brexit. (although they do link to yet a further BBC article about generalised problems with the supply chain) So if Polly Toynbee is putting links in her articles maybe she thinks no-one will read the links, but just assume that she's giving supporting evidence.

Then, after using a headline saying: Forget curtains and cash – Johnson’s legacy will be the bitter taste of Brexit in the second paragraph she goes on to discuss the wallpaper for Downing Street. Consistancy of message? No!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 May 21 - 02:07 AM

It is more the premise of her article that I was interested in, Nigel. I I would have thought the "Johnson's legacy" bit would have indicated that but sorry for not making it clear enough. Here is the opening salvo fired at Bozzer.

But history will record one great political crime above all the others, his tawdry dishonesties mere illuminations round its edges. The delinquent who miss-sold Brexit to half the nation with a stardust of false promises to secure himself the throne will leave behind the Brexit breakages long after he has gone.


And it concludes against him

Wallpaper and lies may bring Johnson down, but Brexit is the crime against the country for which he will be for ever damned. Riots and the fall of Arlene Foster imperil the peace agreement in Ireland, and the UK’s breakup is on a knife edge.

Regardless of her reasons and politics, do you agree with her conclusion that Johnson's mismanagement of brexit is a much bigger crime than the expensive curtains?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 May 21 - 05:48 AM

Regardless of her reasons and politics, do you agree with her conclusion that Johnson's mismanagement of brexit is a much bigger crime than the expensive curtains?

No! (in answer to the direct question)

I don't consider that Boris has mismanaged or mis-sold Brexit. He had a poor starting position because of the position left by Theresa May. I still believe that Brexit will have been a positive move for the country in general.
As for his legacy, yes, he is more likely to be remembered for Brexit than for the refurbishment of 11 Downing Street. He is also more likely to be remembered for his handling of Covid.
In the 'great scheme of things' how the refurbishment was paid for is a minor matter which should not distract from the more important issues facing the country.
But of course, there are elections pending (particularly in Scotland and Wales) so jumping on this could be seen as the opportunism of the opposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 May 21 - 06:56 AM

OK, thanks Nigel. You gave a direct answer of 'no' to whether the mismanagment of brexit was more important than lying about the refurbishment of his flat so you must consider the latter to be more important. On the other hand, you say that Bozzer will be remembered more for brexit. How can that be if you consider it a less important issue than his curtains?

Yes, I know that you belive that brexit is a good thing and that eventually we will be better off. That is against the views of the vast majority of economists and business leaders who tell us that it may be decades, if ever, before we recover from the move. Nothing wrong with swimming against the tide but please don't blame anyone else if you drown and try to ensure you don't take anyone else with you. Of course you may believe that the insubstantial concept of "sovereignty" is more important than our long term well being. Many do. I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 01 May 21 - 07:04 AM

The Tories started off this Scottish election with constant attacks on Sturgeon and did she break the ministerial code. There was several weeks of it with the media suggesting she was in the point of having to resign. In truth nobody much in the population at large very much cared if she heard about the allegations against Salmond several days before she initially said. It blew over eventually and no doubt dented the initial campaign a wee bit but not seriously. They are ending it now with their own UK leader under the spotlight. Not sure if that will make much difference in the scheme things. If Labour come in 2nd rather than the Tories I think it would be down to Sarwar appearing more sensible than Ross more than what Boris has or hasn't done.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 May 21 - 07:27 AM

It is not a minor matter. It is an abuse of the privileges of high office. It is, in essence, the same kind of amorality/immorality that leads to the enrichment of dictators and their hangers-on.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 May 21 - 07:35 AM

Agreed, Steve. But it will not damage the country as much as brexit! Bozzer has a track record of lying, cheating and bullying yet he was so popular that he gained a massive majority. We need to ask ourselves why and, as a member of the Labour party at the time, I consider it to be as much my fault as anyone's that the mandate to continue lying, cheating and bullying was handed to him on a plate.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 21 - 08:20 AM

however keir starmer does not seem to be leading the party any more effectively than corbyn, he is imo no more effective at pm question time and has as much charisma as the moving statue. keir starmer the moving statue of st pancreas

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 May 21 - 03:31 PM

Whatever our resident Tory apologists say, however they wriggle, no matter how they manipulate their weasel-words, the plain, simple truth - undeniable except by those too blinded by Tory propaganda and dogma to see - is that Johnson is an habitual liar who cares about no-one but himself, utterly devoid of shame or morals, and totally unsuitable to be the leader of the United Kingdom..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/30/scandal-charge-sheet-johnson-wallpaper-lying?fbclid=IwAR0rXmSukafl8GedXIRs

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 May 21 - 03:53 PM

OK, thanks Nigel. You gave a direct answer of 'no' to whether the mismanagment of brexit was more important than lying about the refurbishment of his flat so you must consider the latter to be more important. On the other hand, you say that Bozzer will be remembered more for brexit. How can that be if you consider it a less important issue than his curtains?

Again, No!.
The question I answered was yours: do you agree with her conclusion that Johnson's mismanagement of brexit is a much bigger crime than the expensive curtains?

By saying "No!" that does not mean that I think curtains are more important. I do not agree with her conclusion that a) Johnson has mismanaged Brexit, or b) That his treatment of Brexit was a crime.

My answer of "No!" was in response to your question of whether I agreed with her conclusion. Do not try to read into it something which isn't there.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 May 21 - 03:58 AM

Nigel - do you disagree that boris would repay your loyalty
by throwing you under a bus
if his own benefit and survival were at stake...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 May 21 - 06:30 AM

from labours point of view who would be the party leader most likely to .lose for the tories gove patel johnson or sunak

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 May 21 - 07:13 AM

Typical political answer, Nigel. Like Bozzer going on about the virus when asked a direst question about his breaking parliamentary rules. All bluster and no substance. Little wonder he is your pin up boy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 May 21 - 11:03 AM

Dave:
Typical political answer, Nigel
Not a 'political' answer. I answered the question you phrased. If the question is so badly phrased that a straightforward answer can be so easily (or deliberately) misunderstood then that is the fault of the person asking the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 May 21 - 01:33 PM

OK. I'll make it simple. Is the mismanagement of brexit a more serious issue than breaching parliamentary procedure and then lying about it?

A simple yes or no will do.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 May 21 - 06:07 PM

We elect politicians of whichever party to govern the country. They are public servants, we expect them to hold to certain standards and they are beholden to not to abuse the positions we have elected them to hold.

Johnson by evading to answer what should have been a simple question is thus ensuring a very expensive inquiry will have to take place and therefore compounding the insult he may have inflicted upon the British public.

A VERY simply way to have avoided this was to answer the question of who paid for the refurbishment of his apartment at No 11 Downing Street in a truthful and straightforward manner.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 May 21 - 02:15 AM

Johnson in a truthful and straightforward manner?

You're having a laugh Raggy!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jos
Date: 03 May 21 - 03:19 AM

Do we know that it HAS been paid yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 May 21 - 11:16 AM

Boris, you are in too much hot water over corruption accusations, far too close to elections.

You better resort too distracting voters with strong suggestions you'll lift safe distancing and travel restrictions even earlier asap in June.

Just remember to qualify it with 'as data allows" while you cross your fingers behind your back and give a sly wink and nod to camera..

And don't give into those trouble making complaining lefties who are so afraid of such irrelevant trifling matters as piles of bodies.

Ignore the soft commie twats...



You know, I think I missed my true vocation as a tory party advisor...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 21 - 11:46 AM

i reckon the consevatives will ditch him

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 May 21 - 12:16 PM

Remember that we had egg on our faces when predicting he'd be ditched within weeks of winning the election.
Going down on record as the shortest lasting PM ever..

I definitely got that prediction wrong,
that the tories would use his bare faced dishonest populism to win.
Them boot him out at the first opportunity he f***** up
( with some typical stupid bad PR misdemeanor)
In order to bring in their all along first choice more hardline further right replacement..

He's a cunning bastard born survivor,
and he knows just how ruthless his backstabbing ministers will be...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 May 21 - 12:30 PM

Let's see what happens in Hartlepool on Thursday.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 21 - 01:04 PM

well the bookies have the tory candiate at 4 to 7 on

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 May 21 - 04:27 PM

OK. I'll make it simple. Is the mismanagement of brexit a more serious issue than breaching parliamentary procedure and then lying about it?

In my opinion, Yes.