BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 04:22 AM

I saw a youtube clip of a middle aged woman in bournemouth sitting alone on a bench with a cup of coffee being arrested and handcuffed by police,

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 05:44 AM

"Margaret Thatcher. God bless he"

Heheh. In view of what a lot of us thought about her aggression and hubris, I'll take that as a Freudian slip par excellence!

Burnt duvet, Raggytash?   Now how many times have I told you not to smoke that pipe in bed!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 05:48 AM

Why drag up a post from 3 months ago I wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 05:56 AM

That did occur to me too...


Dick...?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 07:11 AM

Correct, Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 09:59 AM

Because i do not look that often below the belt and had only jusst noticed it , Raggytash , does it really matter whether it was posted yesterdayd or 3 months ago it is total squit.
Raggy whjat is your problem?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 10:16 AM

"Because i do not look that often below the belt and had only jusst noticed it"

That is absolute bollocks Dick, and you know it. A quick glance at your posting history shows you have posted over 600 times since 13th October.

That equates to 200 posts per month, or almost 7 posts a day. Most of those have been below the line.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 10:20 AM

Perhaps I could mention that equates to one post every 4 hours, day and night, 7 days a week since October.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 03:05 PM

I had only just noticed his post.
Raggytash have you got nothing else to do but count my posts.
I answered your question, it does not follow that i because post on mucat frequently that i noticed his post. or every post
i have other things to do than count posts

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 09:51 AM

Brexit news – live: Boris Johnson has not read trade deal text, No 10 hints as crisis plan for ports revealed

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 10:34 AM

"fomenting".. ahh.. not "fermenting".. I remember now.. gottit...

I agonised over that for a few minutes earlier this week.
But the mental block wouldn't budge,
so I gave up and used a near enough alternative word...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 03:00 AM

Does anyone else see the similarities between our Bozzer and the Turnip across the pond? Gained power using blatant populism. Tells lies all the time. Took over a political party for their own aggrandisement. Will do anything to stay in power. Hopefully he will go the way of the Turnip too.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 11:03 AM

yes.. they are both working for the same elite order
of hidden subterranean lizard people, who cloned them..

.. not that sensible lefties fall for conspiracy theories...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 12:47 PM

You know, I would never have thought it possible, but I am missing some of the banned right wingers. It would have been great to take the piss of them now :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 01:02 PM

Remember.. I was always against banning the wonky headed antagonistic buggers..

They did serve a purpose, and had their entertainment value...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 06:50 PM

Can't agree with that, pfr. The two or three I'm thinking of dragged the place down with their bad secret agendas, the sort of thing I've seen, when not controlled, on other websites that brought them into disrepute and nurtured a culture of trolling, flaming and sweary insults that just couldn't be recovered from. We can all agree or disagree about certain individuals (and, bejaysus, I've walked the tightrope meself on several occasions), but the bottom line is that this is someone else's site, someone who sweated his arse off to set it up with his own vision, him, not us, and we have no right to dictate terms here. We can squabble and argue and protest, and it's grand of the founder of this site to allow that. This is not a democracy. It's someone's vision, and we can sign up for free and bugger off for free, not having to make the commitment that the founder had to make. It costs us nowt. So celebrate the fact that you can freely put up your point of view and still have a bloody good grumble at Jeri, Maggie and Joe. They love us really...

...Don't you...?

---

Most of the time! ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 09:57 AM

Shock Brexit charges are hurting us

Just who are these charges a shock to I wonder? Just the knobs that voted for them I would have thought. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could see that anything going in and out of the EU would be adversely affected.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 01:50 PM

Weren’t we assured by Brexiteers and their supporters, including on this forum, that warnings of this kind of thing by Remain campaigners were nothing more than ‘Project Fear’?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 02:06 PM

Was that a corporate mudelf or just one of you? :-) :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 09:30 AM

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 07:53 AM

”It's also very noticeable that "appealing for unity in the Labour Party" means precisely the same thing as "piss off you lefties..."

That’s an interpretation you have chosen to put on it Steve. You’re the one who brings up ‘lefties’, etc., not me. Own your prejudice.

When I talk about ‘unity in the LP’, I’m asking for both sides to bury the hatchet and work together for the good, not only of the Party, but also of the vast majority of the people of this country.

And yes, DMcG, I agree that this discussion would be better placed in the UK Politics thread, but others raised it here.

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 07:25 AM

It's also very noticeable that "appealing for unity in the Labour Party" means precisely the same thing as "piss off you lefties..."

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 07:22 AM

You're assuming that you've been right all along about Jeremy Corbyn. The splits in the party were caused not by him but by his opponents (constantly briefing against him, using the bogus antisemitism nonsense as a stick to beat him with, refusing to be in his shadow cabinet, etc. A death wish by the party right...). There's a very interesting new book that's been given excellent reviews, even by the right-wing press (before you say anything) that gives what's been described as a very honest account of Corbyn's leadership and what went wrong for him, This Land by Owen Jones. I'll be buying it. Corbyn stunned the pundits by robbing May of her majority in 2017. The Tories didn't like it, the media didn't like it and the right wing in the Labour Party didn't like it. So, next time round, out came the big guns...

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 07:03 AM

Funny though, isn’t it Steve, that when I appeal for unity in the Labour Party and support for the democratically-elected leader in order to concentrate on fighting the worst Tory government we’ve had for a great many years, I’m jumped on and lambasted by our resident Corbynistas?

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 06:36 AM

It's a bit like when there's plenty of money in the bank, Dave (not that I'd know). Little crises that might cause splits can be overridden. Money-in-the-bank for the Tories is their big majority. If they were to lose most or all of that majority next time round, there would be splits, but whether that would be enough to wreck 'em kind of hinges on Labour not having even bigger splits...

From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 06:22 AM

Is the Republican party torn by internal division? We can only hope our Tories will go the same way but, for now, that seems to be the prerogative of the Labour party!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 09:31 AM

There. That was the exchanges that started up in the wrong thread. Carry on...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 09:33 AM

Depending on which way you read threads, that might have gone in a funny way up,....

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 09:58 AM

Well, John, your interpretation of burying the hatchet, etc., for about four years seemed to involve disaffected right-wingers (always a relative term, of course) in the party cold-shouldering the properly-elected party leader, publicly dissing him, concertedly using vile antisemitism slurs against him and refusing to serve in his shadow cabinet. Then, when you finally get rid of him (by doing everything necessary to make sure we lose an election, in concert with the Tories and the media) and get your own man in, appeal for unity and the burying of the hatchet. I ask you, which of those two sides demonstrates lack of principle? Fine to bury the hatchet as long as you've got your man in there first, eh?

And chickens always come home to roost. Now that we've got our safe pair of hands installed, just look at how bloody useless he is. So much for let's ditch principle and get Boris out at any cost.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM

Oh.. The Labour Party.. I remember them...

Don't hear much about 'em anymore.. since boris became his own most effective opposition...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 11:34 AM

He'll get away with it. Without a strong opposition leader (wot we have assuredly not got) he'll get in again.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 11:48 AM

I got behind Corbyn. I voted for Becky but supported Keir for a while. I have since left the Labour party but that was to do with the pandering to the right wing Israeli lobby rather than the leadership. Maybe the two are tied though? Is Starmer a right wing plant? I doubt it but his actions so far do not bode well.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 11:58 AM

Well there you go, Steve, twisting words again. The old Jim Carroll tactic - when you have no answer, twist and re-interpret the words of your opponent to make them mean what you want them to mean, and then argue against your own interpretation. I really thought you were a better man than that. Shameful.

So, to respond to your interpretation of what I’ve actually been advocating...

1. Most importantly - I’m not a Member of the Labour Party, nor am I a ‘disaffected right-winger’. I would describe myself as being of the centre-left.

2. I didn’t do anything to ‘finally get rid of him’, nor to ‘get my own man in. In view of (1), how could I?

3) Despite my own feelings that he was not a good Leader, but because he was the democratically-elected Leader, I supported Corbyn throughout his Leadership, spoke up for him and defended him against those who did ‘everything necessary to make sure we lose an election, in concert with the Tories and their media’. It was my stated belief during that time too that there should be an end to division and a move to unity in the party in order to return a desperately-needed Labour government. I voted Labour in each GE during Corbyn’s reign. A check of my posts on this forum during the time of the election will confirm.

4) I don’t believe that the current incumbent is a great leader, but he is the democratically-elected Leader and, exactly as I did during Corbyn’s time as Leader, I will support The Labour Party on the basis that the Party is bigger than any individual or group of individuals, and that removing the worst Tory government in my lifetime is far more important than fighting internal wars. And no matter who the next Leader might be, I will continue with that principle. Party First and Foremost.

5. I really couldn’t care less about your internal, eternal, puerile battles of ideology - fighting your own party won’t get rid of the ideology of Conservatism, only a united Labour Party, working for the good of those who need it the most, will do that.

Now have fun twisting that lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 01:13 PM

It's you twisting, or not reading properly, John. The whole of the main paragraph in the post that's got your gander up is directed at members of the Labour Party (do check that out - it's pretty explicit in the post). As you are not one, I fail to see why you appear to take what I said personally. It doesn't apply to you. But you have expressed anti-Corbyn sentiments on a number of occasions. I don't agree with that, I gave my reasons and I told you about what I think could be a good read. By the way, my use of the term "right-wingers" with reference to people in the Labour Party who jumped on the anti-Corbyn bandwagon is relative, something else I made clear in the post.

Dave, I decided not to leave the party, though many of us lefties have done so. It was a close call. I find it pretty distressing to see how things are currently going. Keir Starmer is going to be easy meat for the Tories when the chips are down at the next election, and the sheer absolute blunder of his trying to sideline Corbyn over that cobbled-together antisemitism report will come back to bite him on the arse. My God, does he know how to do the splits.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 09:41 AM

Another Brexit benefit!

Britons buying from EU site face import duties

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 10:26 AM

I'm Backing Britain.. [1968]

Britain ain't Backing Me.. [2021]

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 11:26 AM

Another Brexit benefit!
Britons buying from EU site face import duties

The two examples given both say they were unaware that they weren't buying from a UK firm. So they could just as easily be buying from USA or China, where import duties and VAT could also be charged. Peoples buying choices are hardly the fault of Brexit, or of the UK government.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 11:41 AM

Earlier this month I placed an order with a company in Northern Ireland.

15 days ago I received a message to say the goods had been sent to the distribution company, a large household name.

For the past 3 days I have been chasing the goods. I am informed today that no goods whatsoever are being forwarded to the UK because of "Brexit"

I pity the poor sod in the distribution centre having to field call like mine asking where our goods are and when we can expect delivery.

He had absolutely no idea of what was happening and muttered vague dates like middle of February, middle of March as prospective dates.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 11:56 AM

Nigel - I take it from your smug off-handed dismissal of the problems now faced by Brits buying from EU;
that you either rarely, or never, buy goods direct from Europe,
or are so well off you don't care about drastically increased import charges...???

Souds about right for ardent tory brexiteers...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 12:02 PM

"souds"..

the "n" has been held up in transit by post brexit red tape..
I could have sworn I was getting it from a UK spellchecker...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 12:26 PM

Nigel, that is a bit of an odd argument. Do you deny we are now charged customs for goods from more places than we were before? That is the "Brexit benefit" I referred to.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 12:41 PM

I mentioned this to my sister, pointing out that a lot of Amazon goods come via their warehouses on 5he Republic or Germany. She send this note in replay:

Amazon FBA Brexit Bombshell 1 – EFN

EFN allows you to fulfil orders from any Amazon European marketplace, while you ship your goods to Amazon’s fulfilment centres in just one country such as the UK.

From the 1st of January 2020 goods in Amazon’s UK fulfilment centres will no longer be used to fulfil orders in Europe. Effectively your sales opportunity from selling on Amazon UK dropped from 446 million EU consumers to 66 million brits.

Amazon FBA Brexit Bombshell 2 – Pan-European FBA

Currently, with Pan-European FBA, when you send your products to fulfilment centres in the UK, Amazon distribute them for storage across Europe. Your products become Prime eligible and visible to millions of customers, with faster delivery while you pay only UK local fulfilment fees.

This will end for stock in Amazon UK warehouses on the 1st of January 2021. However if you send stock to an Amazon warehouse in Europe then it will still be distributed to other European warehouse, with the exception that it won’t be sent back to the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 12:56 PM

So what's the future prospects now for all the affordable CDs, music equipment, & misc. products
I depend on buying frequently, shipped free from Amazon EU S.a.r.L....???????

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 04:29 AM

Nigel, that is a bit of an odd argument. Do you deny we are now charged customs for goods from more places than we were before? That is the "Brexit benefit" I referred to.
I don't deny that. And that it also applies to residents of the EU buying from UK.
But your link, which was based on two people who didn't even know where they were buying from hardly helps in putting forward a valid point.

As for pfr's comment:
Nigel - I take it from your smug off-handed dismissal of the problems now faced by Brits buying from EU; that you either rarely, or never, buy goods direct from Europe, or are so well off you don't care about drastically increased import charges...???
Souds about right for ardent tory brexiteers...

It doesn't even merit a considered reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:19 AM

But your link, which was based on two people who didn't even know where they were buying from hardly helps in putting forward a valid point.

Well, we will leave it at this, but the point is the link talked about the fact the charges exist. The extent to which these people understood it was not, for me, the salient point. That the charges are now incurred is.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:32 AM

Really, I should never say I will 'leave it at that' until I am sure I have thought for at least five more minutes. After this, I really will leave it.

Firstly, I am pleased, Nigel, that you acknowledge every citizen in the UK may now be liable for customs charges for goods from the EU, when they were not before, and that this is an additional cost to them entirely due to Brexit.

Secondly, I take no pleasure that citizens of the EU also face customs duties. In fact, it is worse than that, because it means that given a choice between equivalent products from the UK and the EU the UK version will be more expensive due to the customs charges. Consequently, it is likely to reduce UK sales. That is not something to be pleased about.

Now I really will leave it!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 07:50 AM

Yebbut we got are cuntry back...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 08:02 AM

Frum th right POV you hafta TAKE yur cuntree back , as in steal.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM

"It doesn't even merit a considered reply."

Nigel yesterday you were just being smugly off-handed.

Today you have raised your disregard for the financial plight of other UK citizens
to rees-mogg levels of imperious contemptemtuous denial of reality...

The facts are you write here as though you do not care about new increased import charges from the EU.
You refuse to deny that it is because this does not effect you personally..

Is it not fair to suggest you never buy direct from Europe,
or you are so well off you can easily absorb these new extra costs...???

Whatever, your typical tory brexiteer supercilious attitude
and refusal to reply in reasonable forum debate speaks for itself...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 10:50 AM

Nigel yesterday you were just being smugly off-handed.
Today you have raised your disregard for the financial plight of other UK citizens to rees-mogg levels of imperious contemptemtuous denial of reality...
I don't know how you reach that conclusion. I have always accepted that there will be costs involved in Brexit. The fact that, for the two persons discussed in The Guardian I take the view caveat emptor in no way means that I am being contemptuous. Nor am I denying reality.

The facts are you write here as though you do not care about new increased import charges from the EU.
"Increased import charges"? were there import charges for purchases from EU before? (apart from dutiable goods such as alcohol & tobacco)
You refuse to deny that it is because this does not effect you personally..
Typical failure to understand. Not denying something is not the same as accepting it as true.

Is it not fair to suggest you never buy direct from Europe,
or you are so well off you can easily absorb these new extra costs...???
No, it is not. I buy from EU and from worldwide, and pay any necessary customs/VAT as required. Before buying I check what the total cost is likely to be. If I can't afford it, I don't buy it!

Whatever, your typical tory brexiteer supercilious attitude
and refusal to reply in reasonable forum debate speaks for itself...

I only declined to respond because your post (as this time) was full of unwarranted assumptions.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 11:04 AM

"Increased import charges"? were there import charges for purchases from EU before?

There were no customs charges from the EU, Nigel, as you well know. The customs charges now being applied are therefore an increase.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 11:05 AM

Nigel - thanks for the reply.
Even if it is mostly pedantic waffly deflection..

I thought of suggesting ardent brexiteers are happy to accept a high increase from zero import charges from the EU,
on regaining sovereignty,
because it is their patriotic duty..

Well I thought nah.. surely our Nige can't be that bonkers blinded by brexit ideology...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 12:05 PM

No point, PFR. Many people know that their vote for brexit was a mistake but it is human nature not to admit errors. Even if Nigel ever thought he was wrong he would never admit it on here. Far better just to take the piss :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 12:19 PM

DtG - what I enjoy about smug condescending folk,
is that while in their own heads they are convinced they are being so clever and superior;
here in the outside world of reality,
we just see them as smarmy out of touch arses...

But nonetheless, mudcatters are mainly good tolerant folks who welcome and celebrate diversity of personalities...

I can be friendly with just about most people..

You could say I'm an equal opportunities piss taker...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 02:57 AM

PFR - :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 02:57 AM

Oh, and 800!