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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Dave the Gnome 15 Jun 21 - 10:50 AM
Rain Dog 14 Jun 21 - 11:50 AM
Nigel Parsons 14 Jun 21 - 10:14 AM
mayomick 14 Jun 21 - 10:11 AM
punkfolkrocker 14 Jun 21 - 09:48 AM
SPB-Cooperator 14 Jun 21 - 08:50 AM
DMcG 14 Jun 21 - 07:47 AM
Nigel Parsons 14 Jun 21 - 07:01 AM
DMcG 14 Jun 21 - 04:35 AM
Nigel Parsons 14 Jun 21 - 03:45 AM
DMcG 14 Jun 21 - 12:39 AM
punkfolkrocker 13 Jun 21 - 10:19 PM
The Sandman 13 Jun 21 - 06:23 PM
SPB-Cooperator 13 Jun 21 - 02:39 PM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jun 21 - 02:26 PM
Backwoodsman 13 Jun 21 - 01:50 PM
SPB-Cooperator 13 Jun 21 - 12:57 PM
Doug Chadwick 13 Jun 21 - 12:45 PM
SPB-Cooperator 13 Jun 21 - 11:25 AM
DMcG 13 Jun 21 - 03:25 AM
Bonzo3legs 12 Jun 21 - 04:45 PM
Steve Shaw 12 Jun 21 - 05:05 AM
The Sandman 12 Jun 21 - 03:50 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Jun 21 - 06:04 PM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Jun 21 - 02:22 PM
The Sandman 11 Jun 21 - 10:41 AM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Jun 21 - 09:23 AM
The Sandman 11 Jun 21 - 09:06 AM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Jun 21 - 08:38 AM
Backwoodsman 11 Jun 21 - 08:29 AM
Dave the Gnome 11 Jun 21 - 07:33 AM
DMcG 11 Jun 21 - 06:38 AM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Jun 21 - 06:33 AM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Jun 21 - 06:23 AM
The Sandman 11 Jun 21 - 03:59 AM
DMcG 11 Jun 21 - 03:21 AM
The Sandman 11 Jun 21 - 03:01 AM
DMcG 11 Jun 21 - 02:50 AM
Donuel 10 Jun 21 - 09:08 AM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Jun 21 - 08:34 AM
DMcG 09 Jun 21 - 07:20 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jun 21 - 06:58 AM
punkfolkrocker 09 Jun 21 - 06:48 AM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Jun 21 - 05:41 AM
The Sandman 09 Jun 21 - 03:12 AM
DMcG 08 Jun 21 - 06:13 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Jun 21 - 01:37 PM
DMcG 08 Jun 21 - 01:18 PM
punkfolkrocker 08 Jun 21 - 10:22 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Jun 21 - 10:17 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jun 21 - 10:50 AM

Yorkshire Bylines hitting the nail on the head as usual :-)

Johnson’s alternative address to the nation

Good evening. Err, um, www, err, sausages, err, um, where was I, err, www, yes, no, Great Britain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 11:50 AM

I am sorry to hear of the problems that SPB and others are now facing due to the change in circumstances.

Do you know how the regulations would affect you if you were to marry and live in your partner's homeland?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 10:14 AM

And can you not even acknowledge SPG-Cooperator's situation? Nothing in any of your recent post's does.

I acknowledge SPB's post, but chose not to comment on his personal situation even if I could understand his comments. It appears that he, in common with remainers, assumes that Brexit is just a racist policy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: mayomick
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 10:11 AM

Much as though bureaucracy is an inconvenience to all and everybody , SBS,it is essential for the functioning of any modern economy. Don’t forget that Brexit was sold to the British public by newspapers like the Express raging against EU bureaucracy .


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 09:48 AM

Anti immigration enforcement is most probably based on bitter jealous fear
that foreigners can be more attractive and desirable,
than most pasty blotchy potato faced indigenous British xenophobes...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 08:50 AM

it is not so much the beaurocracy (for that read paying pointless fees to keep a leech in employment to carry out a pointless job), it is the hostile environment that assumes that somoni is going to break immigration law unless they can prove otherwise - ie guilty of intent to carry out a crime until proven innocent.

We already see cases on a daily basis where people who have arrived as part of the Windrush generation facing deportation 50-60 years later due to the the home office failing to keep proper records. We read cases of their children who came over as infants who have only known life in UK, were educated hear and worked to provide vital services and pay decades of taxes being threatened with being removed to another country with which they have no living family ties or emotional connection, and no guarantee of a secure life when they have been deported. We read cases of people from Europe already being turned away because they might not return within 90 days.

And you are asking me to believe this is a FAIR system, and people who intend to get married will be treated fairly? Do you really believe that people who are pursuing their dream of a long and happy relationship together will have no lasting damage when a mindless official whose own lives are pathetic effectively tells the couple that they are not entitled to get married?

Well this may be fine for racist garbage who see this as a means of having less foreigners' lowering their property values, but those of us have to bear the consequences of your xenophobia.

p.s. I have seen a lot of government information abut preparing for leaving the EU. Ridiculous posts dictating to businesses who they can and can't employ, and processes that line the pockets of more leeches for people who want to employ someone from the EU. For example, if I wanted to employ my partner as my pa for a few hour a week I would have to pay a leech to register as an employer, I would have to pay something like £180/hour for a 5-6-7 hour/week job, and it would be a face piece of **** who would make a decision of whether or not I would be allowed to employ her.

This all, collectively evidences that in the view of the government, those who fall in love with someone from outside the UK is a lower species of human being compared with someone who falls in love with a Broth person. Anyone who dares to suggest that this is not Naziism should read Miep Gies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 07:47 AM

Sigh.

The public information that people's marriage rights are changing if they want to marry someone from the EU. That is not the same thing as settled status for someone who is from the EU.

And can you not even acknowledge SPG-Cooperator's situation? Nothing in any of your recent post's does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 07:01 AM

"Two years after the public information campaign". So that would be this October then. The public information campaign started before Brexit in October 2019: Here
I know that since then I've seen advertising for applying for settled status on advertising hoardings, in the newspapers and on tv. Even without the advertising I would have expected those who will come under these changes to have searched for information.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 04:35 AM

No, Nigel, I meant two years after the start of the public information campaign that their rights may have been affected. Sorry if that was not clear.

It is far too late to tell prospective couples when they apply for the marriage licence, because they may need to make other changes to, for example, their residency to guarantee the granting of the licence. Those alterations take time.

My biggest objection to this is that the frame of mind of the Home Office is not "this is a change coming because of Brexit, but we will do all we can to make things as easy as possible for you within that constraint". It is more "It's your problem." They appear to see it as a bureaucratic issue more akin to moving some filing cabinets from one floor to another than something that affects real individuals.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 03:45 AM

There was no need to act immediately. People could have been informed by a public campaign this specific change was coming in, and been given say two years to make any changes to circumstances they needed. But no, act as if people are not involved at all. That was the "fairly inevitable"

"Could have been given two years"? Instead they've only had a year and a half (1 Jan 2020 to 30 June 2021). It shouldn't need a public information campaign. Anyone wishing to marry has to apply for a marriage license, at that stage they would be reminded of the rules.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 21 - 12:39 AM

When I said these upcomingchanges to subject marriages to EU citizens to the checks was "fairly inevitable" I perhaps did not explain that "fairly". As Nigel correctly says, it was one of the aims to treat EU and non-EU the same, right from the start. The "fairly relates to how it was done: a quiet change of bureaucracy with little notice or public awareness and complete disregard of the fact that real people are affected. It is an example of "act without considering the impact" that I thought fairly inevitable.

There was no need to act immediately. People could have been informed by a public campaign this specific change was coming in, and been given say two years to make.any changes to circumstances they needed. But no, act as if people are not involved at all. That was the "fairly inevitable"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 10:19 PM

GB News channel...????????????????????

.. well I sat through the hour long intro video late last night..

Hmmmmmmm.....



Supposed to be starting full service today...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 06:23 PM

Quite so SPB, It is disgraceful


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 02:39 PM

How dare you suggest that my Czech partner and I lose the right to choose to do so without the permission of the Home Office. Only a racist would defend levelling down rather than levelling up? If you believe in equality then did you seek Home Office permission before you got married, or are you a superior race to me???????


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 02:26 PM

"EU marriages will fall into the sham marriage referral and investigation scheme."
Appalling, I think, but a fairly inevitable consequence of Brexit if one aim is to reduce EU/non-EU distinctions of citizenship.


It was always stated that one intention of Brexit was to stop giving preferential treatment to EU citizens when compared to the rest of the world. This just standardises that treatment. It just means that people coming from EU to marry in UK will be checked by the Home Office, as currently happens with citizens of America, Armenia, Australia and over 100 other countries in the same circumstances.

Details per HM Government are Here


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 01:50 PM

Assuming you’re correct, they are the guilty parties, not their families. In the UK, we punish wrong-doers, not their spouses and children - that is a basic legal principle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 12:57 PM

In the case of Home Office officials there is a clear case for that. They choose to apply for the jobs, obey orders and take the pay, They are the individual people enacting inhumanity on fellow human beings, and should not be allowed to hide behind anonymity under the excuse of 'only obeying orders'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 12:45 PM

.... should be named, shamed and ostracised by society along with their families.

Guilt by association. I am not my brother's keeper.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 11:25 AM

The same MUST apply to marriages between UK nationals. I can't say what I want to say as I would have to use language that is extremely offensive to women. If this actually happens, this proves that everyone who works for the home office is a racist neo-nazis and should be named, shamed and ostracised by society along with their families. Teachers should stand their children up in from of the class and explain to the class how inhumanely their parents are treating decent people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Jun 21 - 03:25 AM

"EU marriages will fall into the sham marriage referral and investigation scheme."

Appalling, I think, but a fairly inevitable consequence of Brexit if one aim is to reduce EU/non-EU distinctions of citizenship.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Jun 21 - 04:45 PM

In keeping with the current trend of teachers calling themselves academics at Oxbridge Universities behaving like wokie imbeciles in the name of anti racism, I would suggest USAian universities follow suit by taking down the stars & stripes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jun 21 - 05:05 AM

Ah, I didn't know that. You had me scratching my head there and trawling the thread to find out what I might have said...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Jun 21 - 03:50 AM

spb his name is also steve . governments do not believe in decency they are their to do the bidding of the highest payers that is who they represent, the multi nationals, the very rich


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 06:04 PM

Steve who?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 02:22 PM

That's the irony. Political decisions have consequences, and taking ending FoM as an example, the government should at least have the decency to admit that they want the consequences to happen instead of trying to brush collateral damage under the carpet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 10:41 AM

Politicians represent those who pay them the most.Steve it is time to stop believing in the system


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 09:23 AM

I'll settle for Freedom of Movement any day of the week (for myself to EU and my partner to UK).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 09:06 AM

spb, they are not going to give you a reduction on your pass port so forget about it


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 08:38 AM

1399 - Henry IV crowned King of England.
1400 - Sack of Aleppo

A lot of other things happened in those years, just picked 2.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 08:29 AM

1400! ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 07:33 AM

1399...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 06:38 AM

I agree, SPB-Cooperator. it is not really possible to completely summarise FoM in a few words - it always includes either too much or too little. I just wanted to be clear that it is not really about the right to enter a country on holiday, for example. FoM is more significant than that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 06:33 AM

also freedom to stay for more than 90 days in any 180 period has been lost. In my eyes, the value of my passport has gone down and the price should reflect this, and not the cost of processing applications.
what is the point of having a biometric passport if they do not work on e-passport gates?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 06:23 AM

DMcG - freedom of movement also means freedom to enter into a relationship with someone from another country that has the same freedoms. Now if you want to enter into a relationship and live together, it has to be with someone is suitable in the eyes of the government, while if you want a relationship with a British dug dealer or child abuses - no problem as far as priti vacant is concerned.

There have already been cases where people from EU countries have been denied entry because they 'might' illegally work during the 90 days that they are entitled to visit for, and before the A8 acquisition, it was fairly routine for young people to immediately be sent back home IN CASE they overstay.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 03:59 AM

the leechesat the pass port office are in the business of exploting the stuation, just like the pharma companies, politics seems to be about quick fix


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 03:21 AM

Now the the UK passport is no longer recognised as a document that allows freedom of movement across 28 countries

Just to head off Nigel, that is not what the passport does or did. As far as the countries of Europe are concerned, the UK passport has not changed significantly since before the EU existed, and for countries outside the EU it is entirely unchanged.

You can travel as freely to the countries now (leaving the covid-19 stuff aside) as you could while we were in the EU, apart from joining a different queue at the border, and you many need something like the US ESTA eventually.

"Freedom of movement" has always been, in my view, a poor choice of words. It is more like "freedom of employment" really. That has been lost, but the ability to visit has not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 03:01 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator - PM
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 05:41 AM

Now the the UK passport is no longer recognised as a document that allows freedom of movement across 28 countries, why are the leeches at the passport office still charging £75.50 for a renewal when it is only worth £2.70?
not quite true ireland is an exception, but otherwise i take your point


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jun 21 - 02:50 AM

Had to laugh at the phrasing of this!

"Boris Johnson’s guests are set to enjoy buttered rum, an indoor rainforest and a beach barbecue with local sea shanties"

Local sea shanties, eh? That's an interesting concept.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jun 21 - 09:08 AM

President Biden, who is more teetering than your Queen, today visits Boris Johnson, your latter day Winston Churchhill, :roll eyes:
Perhaps you will believe there is a complete US return to Democracy and NATO but not even Japan is buying it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 08:34 AM

They are not fit for purpose. They do not work at e-gates in other European countries. If my partner and I decide to travel together to another European country when Covid restrictions are behind us we would need to stand in different passports queues and be subject to different passport regulations rather than being free to travel as a couple, that makes us officially sub-human.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 07:20 AM

It is expensive in some ways, but very similar to the price I paid for my Irish passport. Holding both is more symbolic than practical, as my wife only holds a British passport, and sitting in the cafe while she is stuck in a queue is not worth the potential earache.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 06:58 AM

Though it's bloody expensive,
and applying for one is a bureaucratic pain in the arse in itself..

How much would any future proposed UK National Identity card likely be...???

Mind you, the post office passport photo machine
has made me look very white..

The colour balance must have been set by a brexiteer engineer...!!!???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 06:48 AM

Forget travel..
a British passport is valid photo ID when dealing with local petty bureaucrats, while confined in our own nation..

That's the only reason I renewed mine a few years ago


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 05:41 AM

Now the the UK passport is no longer recognised as a document that allows freedom of movement across 28 countries, why are the leeches at the passport office still charging £75.50 for a renewal when it is only worth £2.70?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 03:12 AM

the uk government should be building new schools and new hospitals that are designed to cope with viruses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 06:13 PM

I hadn't answered Vincent's question about what data is going to be available and whether is geared for.resources rather than analysis of specific medicines. I gather that the current data is more resources oriented (except for very specific research work) but the replacement system.will be much broader. &ere is an extract from the NHS information on the system, talking about how it is based round records of individuals:
We take our responsibility to safeguard patient data extremely seriously. Data shared by NHS Digital is subject to strict rules around privacy, security and confidentiality and the new service has been designed to the highest standards. 

We do not collect patients’ names or exactly where they live. Any other data that could directly identify someone, for example their NHS number, full postcode and date of birth, is pseudonymised before it leaves their GP practice. This means that this data is replaced with unique codes so patients cannot be directly identified in the data which is shared with us. The data is also securely encrypted.

We would only ever re-identify the data if there was a lawful reason to do so and it would need to be compliant with data protection law. For example, a patient may have agreed to take part in a research project or clinical trial and has already provided consent to their data being shared with the researchers for this purpose. 

So while it will need suitable approvals, it always possible to 're-identify' the data - ie trace it back to an individual. That means we are not just talking about aggregated data - "there were 27 cases of broken shoulders this month" - but are listing all 27 cases, with anonomised ids. The link I gave says almost the entire medical history will be accessible, including all the individual medicines, treatments, etc. The NHS Digital site says it collects

data about diagnoses, symptoms, observations, test results, medications, allergies, immunisations, referrals, recalls and appointments, including information about physical, mental and sexual health

data on sex, ethnicity and sexual orientation

data about staff who have treated patients

It is not entirely clear to me that all these are related to the same anonymised id, though that seems most likely to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 01:37 PM

Also turns out the impending Amazon neighbourhood broadband sharing opt out deadline is USA only...

.. not UK.. for now...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 01:18 PM

Roll out of NHS England data sharing postponed until September


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 10:22 AM

Garrett.. who the f*** is Garrett.. !!!???

I typed "Grrrrrr"..

Or at least I thought I did..

Bloody tiny mobile phone Type pads and screens...

Grrrrrrrrrrr.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 10:17 AM

That puts some warm glow in my sense of moral superiority...

Walking away from a career in accountancy when I was 18 was a splendid act of defiant idealistic bravado..

It was also one of the most stupid life decisions I ever made,
seeing as I've been so skint ever since...

It was only years afterwards that I realised so many of my anti-capitalist hippie and punk counterculture influencers,
were public school educated and supported by very comfortably well off families..

Garrett...!!!!!


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