BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 11:18 AM

TOO far to fix (in case Mrrzy's reading...)   ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 11:15 AM

This site is closely moderated, and the mods do a pretty decent job of removing promptly any offensive, insulting or threatening material. By so doing promptly (a key attribute), it encourages us to know that trying to post stuff like that isn't worth the effort. Jeremy Keith polices his Session website closely and assiduously, and members know that it simply isn't worth trying to post nonsense. Dick Gaughan's former website, the same (good old Molly...) You call these social media sites, Dave, and I suppose they are in a way, though I don't generally class them as such meself. Compared to behemoths such as Facebook they are tiny. In a way, that makes my point about too big to fix. BWM highlights one aspect of that, and another aspect is that smaller is more beautiful and more fixable. It would take an army of moderators to police Facebook as effectively as here. Two points about that: first, Facebook can well afford an army of moderators, but has always preferred profit over people, and why spend your profits if you can get away with not doing? Second, an army of moderators keeping Facebook clean and safe would have the far-right and the conspiracy theorists, and all the other multifarious do-badders who use it, deprived of the mass audience they so easily exploit, ranting and raving about the denial of democracy and free speech. It's gone to far to fix, it's too big to fix and it won't be fixed. Maybe a mass revolt and a rapid bleeding away of its members voting with their feet will be the only way. There again, I think I may be in cloud-cuckoo land...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 10:33 AM

I do use it but limit both my audience and what I read but I am no Facebook apologist.

I note however that the above text is lifted directly from the Avaaz Website and is the message to convince people to 'chip in'.

We should understand that all Social Media sites, including this one, play their part in providing mis-information and a place for criminals and hate mongers to ply their trade. This is a world wide phenomenon and deserves a thread of its own rather than be placed in with the kaleidoscope of UK Politics!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 10:05 AM

And Steve makes a good point. Who, and in which country(ies), are the ones who will be willing to take steps to ‘fix’ FaceBook, bearing in mind the quantity of excrement it holds ready to heap on the heads of anyone who goes up against it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 10:02 AM

Not exactly ‘news’, Sandman. It was reported in the Washington Post on 22/10/2021 - nine days ago…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/10/22/facebook-new-whistleblower-complaint/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 10:02 AM

Facebook is too big to fix.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 09:51 AM

i received this by e mail.A brave whistleblower just leaked secret Facebook documents... and they're shocking!

They show that Facebook knew. They knew that human traffickers used Facebook to lure women into sexual slavery. They knew that it was being used to incite violence against minorities. They knew that divisive lies and extremism were being promoted to millions all over the world. And they knew its systems were removing less than 1% of violent content.

Facebook knew all this. And yet, the whistleblower said, it has put “profits before people”.

That has to change -- and now's our chance. With in-depth investigations and bombshell media reports, Avaaz has helped force Facebook's shame onto the agenda of legislators across the world.

Now we're in the room with lawmakers from Europe to Brazil, fighting tooth and nail to win laws that protect people and democracy from social media's corrosive impact.

But we're up against some of the biggest companies in the world, unleashing their lobbying firepower to fight strong regulation and protect their profits. Last year alone Big Tech spent more than 100 million dollars on lobbying!

But this time, we can win. If we raise enough now, we can fund researchers to uncover more damning evidence, go head to head with the corporate lobbyists, bring testimonies of those harmed by social media to lawmakers, and show up at every key decision with hard-hitting ads and stunts demanding action.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 03:09 PM

Meta...???

Bit like a PR rebranding of "Shit" into "Sugar"...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 01:46 PM

Levelling up? Doesn't seem to be according to Dick Newby who is leader of the LibDems in the Lords and was treasury spokesman during the coalition. May be a bit biased but far from left wing and should know what he is talking about.

Budget will mean a fall in real income and growing inequality

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 03:10 AM

I remember the nuclear waste reprocessing plant at Winscale changing its name to Sellafield when its reputation became toxic. I believe they also considered changing radiation to magic moonbeams.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 08:35 PM

What facebook? Facebook is gone. Its history now. They're changing their name to Meta.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 06:51 PM

Good! You'll never persuade me that Facebook isn't the spawn of the devil, however...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 05:28 PM

It's gone :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 05:08 PM

I have flagged it to the group (old school group) admins, Steve, but it takes a while. I told the bloke who posted it that I found it offensive but I suspect he is a Sun reader :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 04:28 PM

Dick, how many times have I told you not to wear a Stetson, six-gun in holster at your side, chewing on a cheroot and swagger into bars saying "Howdy, y'all, now who'd like a toon on the old honkytonk?"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 03:46 PM

believe it or not,Dave, I was mistaken for a yank the other day in a butchers shop in Skibbereen, no less.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 03:43 PM

dave the gnome, are you British, most of us are of mixed races, YES I KNOW YOU WERE ATTEMPTING IRONY
.I always assumed you were Australian and Polish

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 03:12 PM

This is just over an hour vid-cast, but worth watching if concerned about the unbridled power of social media...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMcEy14O-lg&t=129s&ab_channel=NovaraMedia

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 02:15 PM

And who thinks that it's ok for Facebook to be permitting that. A blight on the planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 01:54 PM

Just seen a horrendous meme on Faceache. A photo of a poppy badge containing the phrase "Lest we Forget" that has had the words "All Lives Matter" very badly Photoshopped onto it. I have no axe to grind about poppies but I found that grossly insulting to those who died fighting for justice and equality. Makes you proud to be British...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 11:33 AM

Trouble is, it is the jokers and rogues that have turned all into no hopers on the road to nowhere :-(

Good song though and, yes, I see your point

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 10:27 AM

Just driving home after dropping off my grandson at home when this came on my audio system. I hadn't appreciated how well it fits my view of both what Brexit vote and what has happened since:

Come all you no hopers, you jokers and rogues
We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
It might be a ladder to the stars, who knows?
Come all you no hopers, you jokers and rogues

Leave all your furrows in the fields where they lie
Your factories and offices, kiss them all goodbye
Have a little faith in the dream maker in the sky
There's glory in believing in
And it's all in the beholder's eye

Come all you no hopers, you jokers and rogues
We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
It might be a ladder to the stars, who knows?
Come all you no hopers, you jokers and rogues

Turn off your engines and slow down your wheels
Suddenly your master plan loses its appeal
Everybody knows that this reality's not real
So raise a glass to all things past
And celebrate how good it feels

Come all you no hopers, you jokers and rogues
We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
It might be a ladder to the stars, who knows?
Come all you no hopers, you jokers and rogues

Wash in the sea of our own vanity
We should rejoice in our individuality
Though winds, gale force
Will stear our course to insanity

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 07:20 AM

ROTFLMAO Dave! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 05:03 AM

Use his proper name please, BWM.

The nicotine stained Man-Frog

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 04:39 AM

”There are still deniers, Rain Dog. They voted for it so it must be good. They were not conned. It's all the fault of remoaners. Etc.”

It’s understandable, Dave. It’s human nature to defend one’s own actions, and it’s human nature to avoid having to confess to being a deluded fool who allowed him/herself to be taken in, no matter the warnings, by the propaganda of a small cabal of immensely wealthy elites hell-bent on removing any, and every, check on their ability to grow their wealth exponentially, regardless of the cost to the vast majority of the population.

The Upward Flow of Wealth is the mantra of that cabal, money is their God, and they know exactly how to manipulate the careless and unthinking into aiding them in pursuing their aims.

It’s a damn shame that many of those who had their wits about them in June 2016 didn’t think enough to get out and vote in what, by any standards - even in the view of the Man-Frog - was a flawed Referendum.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 03:56 AM

I don't think you need a formal analysis to come to that conclusion.   Covid will have a big hit, certainly, but you would expect it to decrease year by year after a certain point, especially as our ways of treating it improve. Brexit has a similar component in things like staffing, but when it comes to trading and such like, we would expect those consequences to repeat every year. So it is rather like comparing a capital cost with a recurring cost. Given enough time, the recurring cost will always dominate.

Exactly when depends on the initial costs and the recurring cost, and how long the recurring costs continue, but in the absence of any other information you would expect the one with recurring costs to cost more in the long term.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 03:49 AM

There are still deniers, Rain Dog. They voted for it so it must be good. They were not conned. It's all the fault of remoaners. Etc.

I can predict who will be on soon...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 03:29 AM

From The BBC

Impact of Brexit on economy 'worse than Covid'

"The impact of Brexit on the UK economy will be worse in the long run compared to the coronavirus pandemic, the chairman of the Office for Budget Responsibility has said.

Richard Hughes said leaving the EU would reduce the UK's potential GDP by about 4% in the long term.

He said forecasts showed the pandemic would reduce GDP "by a further 2%".

"In the long term it is the case that Brexit has a bigger impact than the pandemic", he told the BBC.

His comments come after the OBR said the cost of living could rise at its fastest rate for 30 years, with suggestions inflation could hit almost 5%.

Speaking after Wednesday's Budget, Mr Hughes said recent data showed the impact of Brexit was "broadly consistent" with the OBR's assumption that the leaving the EU would "reduce our long run GDP by around 4%".

"We think that the effect of the pandemic will reduce that (GDP) output by a further 2%," he added.

The Treasury has been contacted for comment."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 02:33 AM

It's easy to save water on flushing. Just remember -

If it's brown, flush it down
If it's yellow, let it mellow

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 04:37 PM

South West Water, about once every couple of years, try to persuade us to have a meter, but we always decline. They are very unpushy. I have a big garden and need to water it a fair bit most summers. On the other hand, there's plentiful tons of water here in the south-west. And I pee on my compost heap, which saves 8 litres of water not flushed at least seven or eight times a day. More if I'm on the beer. Anyone for my organic veg? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 04:03 PM

Yes, totally inequitable.
The water rates (as with local council rates) were based on the rateable value of the property. The charge was the same for similar sized/located properties whether they were occupied by one person or ten.
'Poll Tax' was an attempt to correct the inequality, but it proved unpopular.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 03:13 PM

What I can say for definite is for many years my old mum who lived on her own,
and used hardly much water at all,
was being charged exctly the same fixed rate as a young family with several kids..

I found this out when I took over looking after her bills.

She was obliviously in arrears to the local water company for well over 700 quid.

Which they insisted must be paid back without exception...!!!

Despite the customer service call worker ackowleging how unfair this was, she had to say "sorry no appeals permitted".
The customer [dis]service operative had no options other than fobbing us off with a scripted..

"..But your mum should have asked for a water meter to be installed, and just paid for what she used..."

So over past decades, how many confused and disorganised elderly folks with dementia
have fallen prey to this extortionate dirty water trick...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 02:36 PM

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

France readies stricter Channel customs checks in post-Brexit fishing row

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 10:40 AM

From The Guardian article which Dave the Gnome linked to:

"But it is understood that in an analysis by the storm overflows taskforce, made up of the Environment Agency, the water industry and Ofwat, which is yet to be published, much more modest costings have been estimated for tackling the scourge of raw sewage discharges.

Sources say the figure of £660bn appears nowhere in the report. The Angling Trust said the report cites a range of lower-cost options for progressively dealing with the worst and most damaging sewage discharges ranging from £3.9bn to £62.7bn, with an impact on average water bills of between £19 and £58 a year.

It is also understood to estimate that an overall plan to reduce spills from storm overflows to an average of 10 a year in sensitive areas would cost between £13.5bn and £21.7bn."

But it is understood..
Sources say..
It is also understood..

We will have to wait and see what is in the storm overflows taskforce analysis but there does seem to be a huge difference of opinion on the costs involved.

The government have said they will look at this again. U turn around the u bend? We shall have to wait and see if they follow through on that promise.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 09:44 AM

More Tory lies

Remember my earlier link about Strategic Lying (23 Oct 21 - 06:40 AM)?

Well, they are still at it but this time they are lying and shitting on us at the same time! :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Oct 21 - 06:47 AM

Here's some basic information on the subject: Parliament

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Oct 21 - 04:26 AM

i believe parliament is discussing dealing with facebook and instagram, anyone got any more info

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 03:59 PM

Just to head off the inevitable, I acknowledge he talked about people being robbed of their rights, rather than those rights being stolen from the people...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 03:43 PM

Be warned: this government is robbing you of your right to challenge the state

David Davis

I am not sure how he has just realised, since it was written into the manifesto. He was always a bit slow on the uptake, I suppose.

As to whether you can call it 'stolen' when it is a manifesto commitment I am also unsure. Maybe it is something to do with just shouting "Get Brexit Done" rather than talking about the manifesto.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 10:56 AM

oh well.. those ?s were "tick symbols" when I typed and previewed...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 10:54 AM

Greed is good ?


Cruelty is cool ?


Crush the weak ?


Women belong to the strongest men ?


If you disagree, you will be destroyed ?


.. yeah.. I think I'm getting the hang of it...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 10:15 AM

Something in what you SAY not saw.

Although there may be something in what you saw too :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 08:13 AM

I think that there is something in what you saw, Donuel, but it does seem to be a worldwide phenomenon of populism vs politics. It was shown most dramatically with your last President but our current Prime Minister is no better. Although he can seem to hide it more. Putin is probably the first I noticed though.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 08:01 AM

Once again PFR is closer to the truth than most of you.
Cruelty, insults and actual anti Christian attitudes are at the center of tory politics. Ignore it or deny it but it doesn't make it untrue.
Cruelty, violence and insult porn has replaced policy arguments in American politics. I see it happenung to your conservatives as well.

When I was a kid conservative politics was achieved by assasination.
JFK, RFK and MLK. Its pathetic but its possible we have improved.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 07:57 AM

On a serious note, it is a pity John Fortune is no longer with us. The tories would have given the "two John's" (Bird and Fortune) so much material to work with.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 07:53 AM

On a side issue, if the water companies have been able to pay £2.85 billion per year, the surely the government can afford to pay the companies this to subsidise water rates so each household pays about £114 less per year, and we can all get a £2,280 water charges rebate.   If the water companies pocket it - ie use it the pay higher dividends, then double, and countinue to redouble the subsidy until it reaches the householders. It will be a win win situation - we pay less, and the tory shareholders become rich beyond their wildest dreams - all at the tax-payers expense.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 07:27 AM

Will members who voted leave/tory please force your children/ grandchildren to bathe at beaches that will be polluted by raw sewage now that the government has legalised dumping of untreated waste into rivers in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 02:49 AM

The Greyhound Party, ambivalent, could be about buses, couldbre about what dogs do at a party , what was the old joke about sniffing

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Senoufou
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 05:01 PM

Yes Steve, and you did it twice! :)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 04:14 PM

"the only creatures that would benefit from a party led by Bonzo would be Dogs"

Then we'd be in deep doodah and we may even get banned...


See what I did there? :-)