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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 13 Jul 22 - 06:44 AM > banned the Guardian's John Crace Trying to shoot the messenger, because it worked so well last time. Doing it in public invites the Streisand Effect. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Jul 22 - 06:38 AM Zahawi has said that he'd offer Boris Johnson a job in his cabinet. I have no words....p |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 13 Jul 22 - 03:53 AM who would be the best candidate from opposition parties point of view, p patel? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: DMcG Date: 13 Jul 22 - 02:47 AM As I commented under John Crace's article, Rishi press people have a poor understanding of media if they think keeping a journalist out of the meeting is going to stop the said journalist from writing an article about it. In fact, you can be fairly certain that the story of exclusion will resurface again and again until Rishi leaves politics, whether that is six months or six years. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jul 22 - 08:27 PM I see that fishy Rishi's entourage banned the Guardian's John Crace from his press conference today. Well well! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 12 Jul 22 - 05:26 PM As it's so important to get a laugh whenever you can during these tragic times (I mean, just look at that "last eight"), here are two gags I found in the Guardian comments columns this morning: An Englishman, an Indian and an American walked into a bar. The barman said, "what can I get for you, Mr Sunak?" Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nadine Dorries now backing Liz Truss: typical Tories getting it arse about face, two hernias supporting a truss... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Rain Dog Date: 12 Jul 22 - 05:53 AM They have already had 2 female Prime Ministers, so it would not be too much of a change for them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Doug Chadwick Date: 12 Jul 22 - 05:50 AM ...it might look like a chane I assume you meant "change". The name Conservatives suggests that they are averse to change. DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 12 Jul 22 - 05:01 AM I think they might choose a woman,because they think it might look like a chane |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 11 Jul 22 - 09:34 AM We forgive you, Raggy: this alleged government's moonshots* should be being documented in the worst-possible-taste-joke thread. * .... och, write your own definition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Raggytash Date: 11 Jul 22 - 09:04 AM Bugger, don't know how that got posted to the wrong thread, sorry Guys! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Raggytash Date: 11 Jul 22 - 09:02 AM Mrrzy, 75MPH or 120KPH is the speed limit on Motorways in Ireland, many people push up this a bit or travelling at 80MPH or 128KPH is not uncommon. I was stopped for speeding once in America the cop said when he looked at my license "Hey you got endoresments for driving ............... cool" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 11 Jul 22 - 08:36 AM > bright ribbon Now I really am dischuffed. *Gak*. But come to think, "hack" in the coding sense hits the same hash bucket as "tips and tricks"; and in the 1950s, "hacking" used to mean muckin' around (I was surprised to see it appear with that meaning in Friday the Rabbi Slept Late). So even coders were late to that party. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: DMcG Date: 11 Jul 22 - 08:20 AM A newsletter from the Telegraph (yes, I get those as well as other paper's views!) reports Rees-Mogg is ringing round canvassing support for a leadership bid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 11 Jul 22 - 08:07 AM " Now, what is the word for a love of one's country that does not have the negative baggage attached to it?" It'll have to be two words, Dave. "Shag Britannia." There! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Jul 22 - 07:47 AM You are not telling me anything, Dick. I already know that it is widely used instead of nationalism. I know I am in a minority. Come to think of it there are times when being able to spell and use puctuation puts me in a minority as well but I will not let that stop me :-) Now, what is the word for a love of one's country that does not have the negative baggage attached to it? I await your respose but shall not hold my breath... MaJoC - Yes. And now what appear in online feeds as 'hacks' are what we used to call hints and tips. How long has tying a piece of bright ribbon to your suitcase so you can spot it been a hack? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 11 Jul 22 - 07:10 AM Gnome, Iam telling you that the way it is generally used or as you say misued is much more prevalent than the way you insist is correct , you are in a huge minority and remind me of flat earthers, you are a pisser in the wind |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 11 Jul 22 - 06:02 AM I sympathise, DtG. "Hacker" used to mean a programming creative; but since the meeja battened onto "hack" to specifically mean an act of electronic lockpicking, I'm at a loss to describe in social contexts what I --- Oops: Herself's just got back. I'll save my microrant about flags on TV for another time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Jul 22 - 04:25 AM DMcG - I'm pinching that :-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Jul 22 - 04:19 AM I have no intention of even trying to change anything, Dick. As I have repeatedly said I accept that words are misused. Nor have I ever said I disapprove. Language is a wonderful fluid thing that changes constantly. The point that I keep making and that you don't seem to understand is that I have no other word for how I feel about the country. For the third time of asking, please feel free to give me a word, other than patriotism, that means the love of one's country that is neither exclusive or supremacist and I will happily use it. Until then, I shall continue to use patriotism in the way I learnt it. If you feel that is old fashioned or "charming" then fine. You are just as entitled to your opinion of me as I am to my opinion of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: DMcG Date: 11 Jul 22 - 03:59 AM I am sure this is going the rounds on all sorts of social media, but my sister sent it to me, and I hadn't seen it before. I like the hashtags #LizForLeader #ReadyForRishi #PMforPM I’m waiting for Nadines. #GoNads |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 11 Jul 22 - 03:28 AM but you are pissing in the wind you do not stand a chance of changing its so called misuse whilst the majority of communicators are using it in the way you disapprove of. you remind me of Don Quixote, if you can come up with a better word but no one else is using it, you really are wasting your time, because journalists are not going to take any notice of you. you remind me of the charming eccentrics who speak at hyde park corner |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Jul 22 - 02:32 AM I am not just saying it is misused, Dick. It IS misused. The word gay is misused. The flag of St George is misused. I accept that things are misused, I understand what is being said and I know that I cannot stop the tide of misuse. Try reading what I actually said about coming up with a better word. Something that I challenged you to do some time back and which, to date, you have failed to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 10 Jul 22 - 01:56 PM Dave, let us remember Canute Canute set his throne by the sea shore and commanded the incoming tide to halt and not wet his feet and robes. Yet "continuing to rise as usual [the tide] dashed over his feet and legs without respect to his royal person. Then the king leapt backwards, saying: 'Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings, for there is none worthy of the name, but He whom heaven, earth, and sea obey by eternal laws.'" He then hung his gold crown on a crucifix, and never wore it again "to the honour of God the almighty King" Dave, you remind me of someone trying to stop the tide of language and its usage, you may claim others are abusing it but you are a voice crying in the wilderness, if journaists who as you say, misuse the word but get their misuse printed in thousands, you are rather handicapped, best of luck |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Backwoodsman Date: 10 Jul 22 - 06:04 AM FFS Steve, don’t encourage the muppet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 10 Jul 22 - 05:17 AM Not gold medals. Red ribbons if you don't mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 10 Jul 22 - 05:02 AM "maybe it's pedantic semantics to discuss the intricacies of these crimes, convictions etc. what is indisputable is that they are guilty of being tories and guilty of maintaining and supporting a known criminal in high office while he/they have done significant damage to the economic and social life of the UK. i don't suppose it is necessarily a crime to be dim and greedy but it's irritating and dispiriting for us to listen to their lies and excuses every day." dum de dum de dum de dum I never thought you lefties could become more boring and sanctimonious, collect your gold medals here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Jul 22 - 04:13 AM Yes, we get it, Dick. The word patriotism has been abused for a long time. Until someone comes up with a good word for love of one's country while still acknowledging its faults and without the exclusivity associated with nationalism, I shall continue to use patriotism in its true sense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: peteglasgow Date: 10 Jul 22 - 03:29 AM maybe it's pedantic semantics to discuss the intricacies of these crimes, convictions etc. what is indisputable is that they are guilty of being tories and guilty of maintaining and supporting a known criminal in high office while he/they have done significant damage to the economic and social life of the UK. i don't suppose it is necessarily a crime to be dim and greedy but it's irritating and dispiriting for us to listen to their lies and excuses every day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Jul 22 - 06:23 PM Nigel, as I explained I have several speeding convictions. Does that make me a convict? Well I suppose it does within the context of speeding convictions. I'm not a convict in the context of every other area of life. If I go to work on the train, I'm a commuter. When I'm at home watching the telly, I'm not a commuter. However, I may be a viewer. But I'm not a viewer when I'm weeding my veg plot. I suppose "convict" carries too much baggage for some people to stomach, unlike commuter or viewer. The plain fact is that yer man was convicted of breaking the lockdown laws, and, let's face it, they were real laws. Just like those speeding laws, which have handed me three, er, convictions, they handed fishy Rishi a conviction. Words, words, words... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 09 Jul 22 - 05:52 PM Bottomley who called himself a patriot was in fact a convict. Nigel are you seriously trying to sqy he was not a convicted criminal |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Nigel Parsons Date: 09 Jul 22 - 05:08 PM Those who insist on using the word 'Convict' to describe certain MPs might like to check a dictionary. Doing a search for 'convict meaning OED' gets: convict verb /k?n'v?kt/ declare (someone) to be guilty of a criminal offence by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law. "the thieves were convicted of the robbery" Similar: declare/find/pronounce guilty sentence give someone a sentence send down for Opposite: acquit clear noun /'k?nv?kt/ a person found guilty of a criminal offence and serving a sentence of imprisonment. "two escaped convicts kidnapped them at gunpoint" Most other dictionaries come up with similar definitions. This would seem to mean that you cannot become a convict by accepting a FPN (fixed penalty notice) as they are issued by the police with no input from the courts. This also explains why those accepting such notices do not have a 'police record'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 09 Jul 22 - 01:50 PM anyone can call themselves a patriot, horatio bottonmley did just that, and was actually engaging in criminal.activitie On 14 January 1915, 6 months into World War I, the Royal Albert Hall played host to the ‘Great Patriotic Rally’ – one of the most memorable public meetings in the venue’s history. The Great Patriotic Rally was organised by the proprietor of the hugely popular John Bull magazine, Mr Horatio Bottomley: a convicted swindler and disgraced ex-Liberal MP who was forced to resign from his seat after filing for bankruptcy in 1912. His John Bull magazine claimed a circulation in excess of 2 million by 1914, making it by some distance the best-selling news weekly of its day, and promoted itself as the most patriotic publication of a patriotic era. It called on its readers to hate the “Germ Huns” and “Austrihuns”, against whom Britain was fighting. Horatio Bottomley This rally at the Hall saw Bottomley depict the war as a struggle to the death between the Anglo-Saxon and Teutonic races, declaring: “We are fighting all that is worst in the world, the product of a debased civilization”. The Hall’s management had underestimated how many people would try to attend and chaos ensued as 12,000 people tried to pack themselves into the auditorium to hear the charismatic speaker. It reportedly took Bottomley over 2 hours to reach the stage before he could even start the meeting! In this extract from Bottomley’s speech made on the day we get a flavour of the rhetoric used: “I cannot think of any prouder boast for any Britisher to make when the war is over — that he took an active and vital part in ridding England and the world of a great, a hideous menace, which, but for his intervention, might have wiped out the civilization of our past ages and everything worth living for or dying for on the earth. I ask those young men if they do not really feel that there is a call to them. I ask them if they cannot hear their comrades calling to them from the trenches, calling to them from the hospitals, calling to them from the decks of the sea-dogs who are guarding our shores day in and night in. If they do not hear that call they are unworthy to claim the name of Englishman.” |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 09 Jul 22 - 01:27 PM Patriotism an interesting word, the way that is has been used by journalists and authors of repute, such as Bernard Shaw, DRJohnson, Bertrand Russell Oscar Wilde, are vastly different from the ex schoolmaster Steve Shaw., |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 09 Jul 22 - 01:09 PM Bonzo, would you care to explain what is "absolute bollocks" in DMcG's post. As far as I can see it is a perfectly sensible and logical statement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 09 Jul 22 - 11:28 AM "I agree wholeheartedly. Moral/Patriotic behaviour and lawful are not the same. If I have the power to make laws, I can choose how I want to behave, and what is most beneficial to me then write the laws so that is lawful. It means nothing. The Moral/patriotic choice is to do what is for the good of others/the country even though it could do you harm, because you judge the good of the country as more important then your own wallet." You do talk absolute bollocks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: DMcG Date: 09 Jul 22 - 11:25 AM I wasn't talking about legalities. I was talking about the tax decisions the couple have made, which certainly seem to have largely been moves which favour their rich selves and their fellow wealthy I agree wholeheartedly. Moral/Patriotic behaviour and lawful are not the same. If I have the power to make laws, I can choose how I want to behave, and what is most beneficial to me then write the laws so that is lawful. It means nothing. The Moral/patriotic choice is to do what is for the good of others/the country even though it could do you harm, because you judge the good of the country as more important then your own wallet. It has been said 'patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel' (copyright a rather different Johnson) To me, especially for those who make the law, 'it is lawful' runs a close second. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Jul 22 - 09:35 AM I didn't call him a criminal, just a convict. He was convicted of breaking the law. I've been fined for speeding four times (in 54 years I hasten to add). I can't argue with anyone who wants to say that I was convicted four times. All but the first time (in 1968) were fixed penalties. Still convictions I think. We speak freely of speeding convictions, don't we. By the way, Bonzo, I wasn't talking about legalities. I was talking about the tax decisions the couple have made, which certainly seem to have largely been moves which favour their rich selves and their fellow wealthy. It's about character when you're considering who might be the next PM. My point was that I can't see how incredibly wealthy people who do their damnedest to pay as little tax as possible in their own country can call themselves "patriots." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Jon Freeman Date: 09 Jul 22 - 08:44 AM I'm confused by the convict/criminal comments. Going by this article in the i online, I don't see those who accepted fixed penalties for Partygata and paid are classed as criminals. Will the Partygate FPNs go onto a criminal record?Perhaps someone can clarify/explain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 09 Jul 22 - 08:25 AM Clearly you know nothing about UK, the tax legislation provides that a non-dom can elect to pay tax on the remittance basis. Claiming the remittance basis means you only pay UK tax on the income or gains you bring to the UK, and you must pay an annual charge if you have been living in the UK for a certain amount of time. You pay an annual charge of: £30,000 if you have been here for at least seven of the previous nine tax years £60,000 for at least 12 of the previous 14 tax years Live with it!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Raggytash Date: 09 Jul 22 - 08:16 AM ""he's a convict" - really, that is ultra lefty drivel!!!" No Bonzo it is hard recorded FACT, no if's, no but's no maybe's but pure FACT. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Jul 22 - 07:48 AM Hit send by accident there. She is a non-dom because she elected to be one. She is paying those UK taxes because she elected to, in order to avoid embarrassing fishy Rishi. She is not paying tax for previous years. Clear enough? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 09 Jul 22 - 07:46 AM "bonzo you are up barking creek without a paddle" Can you please explain to me how she has not paid "back taxes"?? This is the current tax legislation: People whose foreign income is more than £2,000 must report it in a tax return. You then have a choice of paying UK tax on it, or claiming what is known as the “remittance basis”. Claiming the remittance basis means you only pay UK tax on the income or gains you bring to the UK, and you must pay an annual charge if you have been living in the UK for a certain amount of time. You pay an annual charge of: £30,000 if you have been here for at least seven of the previous nine tax years £60,000 for at least 12 of the previous 14 tax years Now tell me what you mean by "back taxes" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Jul 22 - 07:45 AM Rowena Mason, Guardian, 8 April: Sunak’s wife, Akshata Murty, bowed to pressure to pay UK taxes on Friday night, after Boris Johnson said he had been unaware she was a “non-dom” and fresh questions emerged over the couple’s tax affairs. With Sunak’s position under increasing threat, Murty said she realised many people felt her tax arrangements were not “compatible with my husband’s job as chancellor”, adding that she appreciated the “British sense of fairness”. She will pay tax on all worldwide income in future and for the last tax year, but not on backdated income, which could have saved her an estimated £20m of UK tax on foreign earnings from her billionaire father’s Indian IT company. This was also on the BBC News website and elsewhere. She is a non-dim because she elected to be one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Backwoodsman Date: 09 Jul 22 - 07:41 AM And still, the delusional and hard-of-thinking try to defend the indefensible… |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 09 Jul 22 - 07:04 AM bonzo you are up barking creek without a paddle |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 09 Jul 22 - 06:50 AM "and hasn't paid back-tax" - what back tax??? Do you have a copy of her tax return??? "he's a convict" - really, that is ultra lefty drivel!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Jul 22 - 05:56 AM More on dishy Rishi: His wife is a non-dom who owns almost £700 million in shares in her dad's company, and other holdings (shadily?) not disclosed. As a non-dom she gets massive potential relief from paying inheritance tax. In fact, they are secretive about most of her holdings, controversially not declared on registers of interests. She has declined to pay UK tax on her overseas earnings until recently and hasn't paid back-tax. Sunak founded a hedge fund company in the Cayman Islands (we know why there, don't we?). Sunak held a Green Card, entitling him to permanent residence in the US, for six years whilst an MP, nearly two years whilst Chancellor. They have an apartment in Santa Monica. Seems he was hedging his bets, keeping his options open to move back to the US in case his political career didn't work out well. In April he brought in tax breaks for non-dom hedge fund managers. Of course, I'm expecting someone to tell me that his wife's affairs are nothing to do with him. My arse, would be my answer to that. Many of his actions as Chancellor have been to help people like her (and her) to avoid giving any of their vast wealth away. In his video he claimed to be a patriot. Well if he's a patriot he's a patriot who works his socks off to make sure that incredibly wealthy people don't pay their fair share to the country he purports to love. He's no patriot. He's a nest-featherer, a hypocrite, a convict and, just like his erstwhile boss (who, don't forget, he backed to the hilt, in spite of everything, until opportunistically stabbing him in the back at the very last minute), a bloody liar. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 09 Jul 22 - 05:50 AM What worries me about those photos is all the blurred people in them. They remind me worryingly of the Dr Who end-of-season episodes where blurs like that were greeted as ghosts of the recently departed, but turned out to be cybermen. .... But Herself has nailed de Pfeffel: Carcer, from Terry Pratchett's The Night Watch (a stone-cold psychopath who will stand there with stolen watches in one hand and a blood-stained knife in the other, and a "Who, me?" smirk on his face, taunting the Watch to do something about it without themselves going to the bad). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Jul 22 - 05:22 AM Of course he was at a party! Look at all the photos, not just the ones that make him look like an innocent bystander! |