BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Oct 22 - 04:29 AM

Did anybody stroke anybody else's thigh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Oct 22 - 04:26 AM

From the BBC

Sam Tarry: Former shadow minister ousted in deselection vote

"Former shadow minister Sam Tarry has lost a battle to keep hold of his London seat in the first deselection of a Labour MP for more than a decade.

The vote by party members means Mr Tarry, an ex-trade union official, will not stand as Ilford South's Labour candidate at the next general election.

He was beaten by Redbridge Council leader Jas Athwal, by 499 votes to 361.

Mr Tarry had previously beaten Mr Athwal to contest the seat in controversial circumstances in 2019.

Just before the 2019 selection, Mr Athwal, who had been the favourite to win, was suspended over "extremely serious allegations", which ruled him out of the race.

He had always denied the allegations and was later cleared. Mr Athwal claimed the complaint was "malicious" and politically motivated.

The move sparked accusations of a "stitch-up" to allow Mr Tarry, a supporter of then-party leader Jeremy Corbyn, to become the candidate.

Mr Tarry has represented Ilford South since the December 2019 election. He replaced Mike Gapes, who had held the seat since 1992 but resigned from Labour alongside six other MPs that February."

I guess Angela will not be too happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Oct 22 - 03:28 AM

Hardly a NATIONAL mandate, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 02:54 PM

And for the most recent General Election Liz Truss got 69% of the voters who turned out (in her constituency), or 45% of the total votes available (Turnout 65.6%)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 01:07 PM

69% of the UK electorate voted for truss in South West Norfolk????? Has anyone notified the police and electoral commission? That sounds like electoral fraud on a massive scale. Otherwise tory lackeys need to just admits that that useless, waste of space has been inflicted on us by only 117,000 self-serving tory proverbials. Hardly a national mandate for her changes in government policy direction.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 08:07 AM

She got about 81,000 votes (0.2% of the UK electorate), mostly from right-wing, wealthy, elderly white people. Lest we forget. In the last general election she was not a candidate for prime minister. This prime minister was not democratically elected except as an MP. Yes, it's happened before. I never approved in those cases either. Technically, we vote only for MPs in general elections. But let's not kid ourselves, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 06:19 AM

And for the most recent General Election Liz Truss got 69% of the voters who turned out, or 45% of the total votes available (Turnout 65.6%)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 06:14 AM

Steve: One things for sure Nigel: thickie Liz didn't get 43% of anybody's vote
True. Liz Truss got 57.4% of the votes in the final round of the leadership contest. (which, before 'turnout' is queried, was 47% of the available vote)
Source

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 05:54 AM

Majoc the Filk: Point of order: 43% was the percentage of those who voted Tory in the 1983 election,

I was quoting the results from the latest, 2019, General Election.
If you would like clarification the details are in House of Commons Library

Where it states:
The 2019 General Election resulted in a Conservative victory. The party won 365 seats, 48 more than in 2017, and 43.6% of the vote, up from 42.3% in 2017. The Labour Party won 202 seats and 32.1% of the vote, down from 262 seats and 40.0% of the vote in 2017. The Liberal Democrats won 11 seats, one fewer than in 2017, and 11.5% of the vote, up from 7.4%.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 05:18 AM

That is our wonderful voting system in all its glory. You can see why the 2 major parties don't want to change it.

Year Government seat majority vote share
1979 Tory                43   43.9%
1983 Tory               144   42.4%
1987 Tory               102   42.2%
1992 Tory                21   41.9%
1997 Labour             179   43.2%
2001 Labour             167   40.7%
2005 Labour             66   35.2%

The other worrying trend is the fall in the turnout.
1945 to 1997 turnout never fell below 71.4% (1997). Highest was 83.9% (1950)

Since 2001 the turnout has never been above 70%. Lowest was 59.4% (2001) and the highest was 68.8% (2017)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 10 Oct 22 - 04:42 AM

Point of order: 43% was the percentage of those who voted Tory in the 1983 election, which gave Maggie Hatchett a thumping majority for her second term. *That*'s when the problems with her headbangers really started, as they could sound off without attracting the undivided attention of the Whips. They've had the bit between their teeth ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 06:18 PM

One things for sure Nigel: thickie Liz didn't get 43% of anybody's vote. I doubt very much whether she would get anything like 43% of Tory MPs' vote at the moment. And she has the worst approval rating of any PM in history. Only Kamikwasi has a lower rating. Still, I expect you don't care much for Observer polls.... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 04:57 PM

Stop pretending to be stupid, Nigs - you know precisely who I was talking about. Your desperate nit-picking persuades no-one.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 04:44 PM

Backwoodsman:
Don’t worry, Nigel, the tax-dodging, multi-millionaire toffs, whose shitty party you defend so valiantly,

It might have escaped your notice that the Conservative party took 43% of the vote. I'm sure that not even your grasp on figures would suggest that that 43% are all tax-dodging millionaire toffs. But you probably won't agree with the facts as opposed to your idea of 'facts'

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 08:08 AM

As of Thursday evening

Risk of £50bn bond sale sparked emergency Bank of England move


"The Bank emergency intervention is due to end next week and it has so far bought a fraction of the government bonds it could have, spending just £3.7bn.

On Thursday, the Bank said it would wind down its bond buying in "a smooth and orderly fashion" once it felt the market was functioning normally again.

The Bank also said it is working with the UK's pensions and financial regulators to make sure that that investment strategies used by certain types of pension schemes can withstand market volatility."


It just goes to remind us about the dodgy world of banking, finance, investment etc.

From the Financial Times

LDI: the better mousetrap that almost broke the UK

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 05:43 AM

There appears to be a new trend among male Tory MPs which involves stroking other blokes' thighs when pissed. I wonder what this latest one said to Mel B in the lift. She's refrained from divulging so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 22 - 04:27 AM

Quite so. I stand corrected.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 Oct 22 - 10:38 AM

Just to clear things up a little. The Bank has not spent £65bn.

From the excert which Steve had quoted:

"Had the Bank not intervened with a promise to buy up to £65bn of government debt,"

It has not helped that the media have been reporting that £65bn has been spent. It hasn't. That is not to say that it will not be spent. We will have to wait and see: a) if that happens, and b) if anyone reports that fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 22 - 08:43 AM

Had the Bank of England not intervened to buy £65 billion of government debt last week, millions of pensioners might have seen their pension schemes going bust. From the Guardian:

Pension funds managing vast sums on behalf of retirees across Britain came close to collapse amid an “unprecedented” meltdown in UK government bond markets after Kwasi Kwarteng’s mini-budget, the Bank of England has said.

Explaining its emergency intervention to calm turmoil in financial markets last week, the central bank said pension funds with more than £1tn invested in them came under severe strain with a “large number” in danger of going bust.

The Bank said a dramatic rise for interest rates on long-dated UK government bonds in the days immediately after the chancellor’s mini-budget had triggered a “self-reinforcing” spiral in debt markets, putting the stability of Britain’s financial system at risk.

Had the Bank not intervened with a promise to buy up to £65bn of government debt, funds managing money on behalf of pensioners across the country “would have been left with negative net asset value” and cash demands they could not have met.

“As a result, it was likely that these funds would have to begin the process of winding up the following morning,” the Bank said.

The level of incompetence is frightening. We might have had a few laughs (of derision, not out of humour) at this appalling shower supposedly running the country this past week, but I don't think I'm exaggerating when I express the view that they are a positively dangerous and unfunny bunch of bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Oct 22 - 07:31 AM

Don’t worry, Nigel, the tax-dodging, multi-millionaire toffs, whose shitty party you defend so valiantly, won’t notice the lag in their state-pension uplift caused by the suspension of the triple-lock.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 22 - 07:29 AM

Yes, I know. And I'm not knocking the predicted increase at all. We still have very poor old age pensions compared with the rest of the western world. I think she'd break that triple lock on next year's pensions increase if she thought she could get away with it without causing an insurrection - remember Hell's Grannies? :-)

As for teachers' pensions, we were mollified for decades by the prospect of decent index-linked final salary pensions (which is what Mrs Steve and I have got) which compensated (sort of) for teachers' low pay compared to other professions. So I'm not knocking that either. We're lucky in our house to have both.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Oct 22 - 07:10 AM

Steve: as things stand, my teacher's pension, which is index-linked, as well as my old age pension, will rise by about 10% in April
Yes, but state pensions will still not catch up with inflation (over 3 years) thanks to a one-year suspension of the 'triple-lock': Here

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 22 - 06:08 AM

A below-the-line comment under today's political live feed in today's Guardian:

"She doesn't have a desire to create growth. She doesn't know what that even is (hint, you need strong trading links, reputation for trustworthiness, a well educated, healthy, motivated population, a fully funded state system [sic], regulated businesses, protected environments and suchlike). All she has is demented reveries about growth magically arriving and handing her party a fit and healthy country, not the knackered, cheated, plundered, internationally isolated basket case they've made it into."

Couldn't agree more. And even "Mad Nad" Dorries thinks that Truss is lurching to the right over her refusal to confirm that benefits will rise in line with inflation. Oh, the irony...

As a consequence of the freezing of the personal tax allowance over several years and the cancelling of the NI increase, among other things, the top ten percent of earners will now benefit by well over £2000 per annum. The poorest will benefit by thirteen quid. Please don't tell me that the Tories don't know what they're doing.

Note: as things stand, my teacher's pension, which is index-linked, as well as my old age pension, will rise by about 10% in April. Mrs Steve, the same. Unless Truss hurries up and agrees to upgrade benefits in line with prices, UC claimants will get about half that percentage on a much smaller amount (and who knows how much more stringent a sanctions regime...)

Well we comfy pensioners generally turn out to vote, and there's a rich vein of Tory voters contained therein. On the other hand, the very few UC claimants who vote Tory, if they even vote at all, well, wouldn't be much of a loss...

Call me Mr Cynical if you like...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Oct 22 - 04:33 AM

HMRC are reminding teenagers turning 18 to claim their matured Child Trust Funds (CTFs), which could hold savings worth an average of £2,100.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 02:13 PM

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 12:47 PM

Or Collapso, Dave...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 12:33 PM

Robo :-D big grin. Luckily, some of us drink good beer instead :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 12:27 PM

Considering what and who you voted for on the right side of the pond at roughly the same time as the things (policies AND people) we voted for on the left side of the pond, I have come to the theory that there is something in that pond water and we should not drink so much of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 12:25 PM

”You don't have to respond to any post that is intended to wind you up.”

I agree 100% with Raindog.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 09:28 AM

> She's making Boris Johnson look like a paragon.

Methunk that was the whole point of him anointing Trusspot as his successor ....

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 08:38 AM

They don't wear knickers in Croydon, lads. Too inconvenient...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 07:37 AM

I have asked before if some of you talk to people in the same way that you post here at times. Somehow I doubt it. That assumes that you actually have conversations with people who hold different political views.

It does come across as childish behaviour. You don't have to respond to any post that is intended to wind you up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 05:35 AM

Er, the benefits are largely there so that the baby may be brought up in a decent and humanitarian manner, as opposed to an early life of grinding poverty and instability. We do not run society on the premise that we decide who is deserving and who isn't, in our high-flown opinions. The NHS treats many morbidly obese people for diabetes and heart disease, or people who have picked up a nice dose of the clap after some careless sleeping-around, and doesn't turn away people with cirrhosis after a lifetime of heavy drinking. Many people with disabilities might be regarded as "having brought it on themselves" by people of a certain way of thinking. Maybe you'd care to draw up a comprehensive table for us of who should get what and who shouldn't, based on your mighty powers of judgementalism...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 05:28 AM

That depend on how a person got their disability, if for example you step out in front of a bus that would be stupidity.

However the fact remains that YOU benefits from those benefits that you would deny to other people.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 04:17 AM

Latest from Newsthump :-)

Truss plans to return to Feudal system

I love the last phrase - "a Prime Minister who would be out of her depth in a puddle."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Sep 22 - 03:21 AM



Fair enough, Then you are happy for Mrs Bonzo to be called one who ""sponged off the government for benefits", we assume.

By the by, I have a nit-pick for you. You said the money was paid into "our" bank account rather than "her" bank account. That sounds like you are getting the benefit of it as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 06:21 PM

Well Kwasi won't commit to putting up benefits in line with inflation, you poor thing...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 06:02 PM

I don't get the disability living allowance, Mrs Bonzo does. I work.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 05:40 PM

Just one more thing Bonzo I, for one, will henceforth refer to you as that scrounging bugger who lives on benefits. Which is something I've never thought of for people who have to receive benefits in order to live.

Hope you sleep well tonight.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 05:35 PM

Not at all Bonzo, but I do see a bigotted two faced bastard !

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 05:20 PM

Bonzo ........... you had to apply for those benefits.

I, for one, do not begrudge you those benefits, it is what the trade unions and the labour party, in particular, fought for.

However when you begrudge those self same benefits for other people, and claim they are scoungers and spongers I, and I would suspect many other people, see you as a two faced b**t**d.

So please do not claim those benefits are sent to you by a benign and benevolent system over which you had no control.

You HAD to apply for those benefits and they were won for you by the very people you despise.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 04:23 PM

From the Guardian's live feed:

Ed Vaizey has been on LBC’s Tonight with Andrew Marr.

Marr asked: You [Tories] are deep, deep in the doo-dah, aren’t you?

Lord Vaizey replied: “I think that’s fair to say. I think the situation is suboptimal, I think is probably the phrase that I’m searching for."

"Suboptimal." I absolutely LOVE that!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 03:50 PM

That is a level of nit-picking Nigel would be proud of.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 03:44 PM

WE do not have to claim anything, it is credited to our bank account!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 01:33 PM

"Those government payments to which we are eligible will be received."

Ah, OK. So just like Angela Raynor, you claim what you are entitled to? What is the difference then between you and her who "sponged off the government for benefits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 01:26 PM

"Do none of your family claim benefits, Bonzo? I seem to remember saying you had a disabled wife. Are you missing out on a free handout for some reason?"

Those government payments to which we are eligible will be received.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 11:26 AM

I haven't got the buttocks man enough to sufficiently clench whenever I see or hear her. I heard a couple of clips of her hesitating, blaming the global mess, blaming Putin and doing her not-for-turning bit. She's making Boris Johnson look like a paragon.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 11:16 AM

I have give up on watching the news, DMcG. It's all bad :-( Reading about it on the BBC news site is bad enough and when I see something of interest I tend to look at various sources before making my mind up.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Sep 22 - 11:12 AM

While waiting at the garage for my car's MOT, there was a television on in the corner showing, I think, the BBC 24 hour news, though it could have been another BBC channel.

When they were talking about the local radio interviews which Truss gave, I got a distinct impression some of the pauses been the question and Truss answering had been edited out. It would take a proper comparison with other recordings, and maybe they had picked out some answers I hadn't heard where she didn't pause, but that's not how it felt to me.

Did it seem like that to anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Sep 22 - 04:56 PM

In answer to your question Dave, I somehow doubt it.

Lets see if we get a response to contradict me ..............