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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 11:19 AM Steve - you are placing yourself so far out on a fragile limb, with your unconditional moral superiority fanboy worship for these protesters.. They can't keep playing the sweet harmless middle class granny card indefinitely. At the very least ASBOs and electronic tags should be considered.. .. and some are probable candidates for being sectioned... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 11:25 AM They are not even proper "anti-car" road protesters.. So leave obvious misdirection out... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Oct 21 - 11:40 AM I have asked before and didn't get an answer, PFR. What is your answer? How would you protest about global warming? Sitting in front of a keyboard just doesn't cut it for me. And, yes, I was on the extinction rebellion march in Leeds about 2 years ago but don't know if that did any good either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 11:56 AM I wouldn't do what these useful idiot inept sales reps for the home insulation industry are doing... What I am doing is anything positive and constructive I am capable of, which could convince floating [and ex] voters to bring back a Labour Govt.. .. Or at least kick out the tories... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 01:08 PM .. and what just popped up on my youtube feed... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxw-qHGUlvQ&ab_channel=GuardianNews This is the Guardian - not the mail or telegraph.. I only got so far down the comments before I got a bit bored with intelligent witty folks, who share [Confirmation bias is fair enough in small doses] my opinions on this issue... How much further down to find Steve's comments...??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 01:23 PM .. and if you are heading over to youtube.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLITXTXBS1s&ab_channel=cassetteboy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Oct 21 - 02:00 PM What I am doing is anything positive and constructive I am capable of, which could convince floating [and ex] voters to bring back a Labour Govt.. Basically, sweet FA to protest against global warming then? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 02:08 PM More sanctimonious bollocks then.. I've been making serious self sacrifices since the late 1970s, which have had serious adverse consequences for my career and finances... That's my lifetime dedication to maintaining a minimalist footprint green lifestyle, while maintaiing some necessary connection with the modern world... How many cars have you owned, how many air-miles have you flown, then...??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Oct 21 - 02:56 PM Still evading the issue, PFR. Nothing to do with me. How would you protest against global warming? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 03:33 PM Get off yer high horse... .. though at least horses are greener transport.. I'm bored of playing silly buggers with holier than thou armchair street protest warriors... btw.. I've never owned a motor vehicle of any description, and only ever flown one journey - to Corfu and back in 1987... The personal IS political... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Oct 21 - 04:06 PM They should be given a good soaking from water cannon or something more nasty!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 14 Oct 21 - 04:43 PM You haven't told us how many of your sacrifices were your decisions or were forced on you by the vicissitudes of life. Don't bother to tell me. I'm not in any way judgemental of people I don't know, just, maybe, a bit judgemental of the things they claim... I find it ironic that you seem to be slightly the opposite... With hundreds of others, including the missus and our young kids, I lay down on the road in Kensington Church Street to protest against nuclear weapons. We were pretending to be the nuclear dead. In the 80s if I remember correctly. We closed the road for hours, and I didn't notice any mentally-sick people or middle-class grandstanding nutters. Funny thing is, pfr, I was actually there. I don't consciously associate with nutters, even if I think they're on my side. But I was there to see what was going on, what the dynamic was. Perhaps you should take yourself off to the next road protest. There's the possibility that it might just open your eyes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Oct 21 - 04:48 PM Far far better things to conservatively do!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Oct 21 - 04:50 PM We are looking forward to our £300 winter fuel allowance!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Oct 21 - 05:04 PM insulate britain are lazy fucking scum |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 14 Oct 21 - 05:09 PM "Lazy"??? Bwahahaha! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Oct 21 - 05:10 PM It's dead simple, PFR. You believe that the M25 protesters are doing it wrong. I just want to know what you would have them do instead. No high horse. No bollocks. Just a simple question. If you have a more effective way of protesting, we would like to hear about it. It may catch on! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 14 Oct 21 - 05:14 PM Nice to see you taking a leaf out of Angela Raynor's book, Bonzo. There may be hope for you yet :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 14 Oct 21 - 06:00 PM Actually, Dave, and I think I might have said this before, I'm not sure that the TACTICS of the protesters play well with most people. My response to that is, big deal. They are out there taking action (lazy my arse!). I remember being in an East London NUT meeting with my mate Blair Peach, a frighteningly huge number of years ago. Whatever the issue to hand was, I can't remember now. But we were waffling along, talking about raising the thing with this, that and the other, writing letters, bringing it up in school union meetings, etc. Blair had a terrible stammer, but, in his frustration at the indecision of the meeting, he stood up, totally out of order, stammer-free, and roared out, "But when are we actually going to stop talking to ourselves and TAKE SOME BLOODY ACTION!" That always stayed with me... If only pfr could have met such a man... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 06:02 PM Steve - you protested donkeys years ago before the internet was even a twinkle in anyone's imagination.. well done for that.. I marched for the miners; and occupied an accademic faculty for a week, for fuck knows who can remember now whatever cause that was for..??? [Not sure if I was an actual fully accepted student socialist worker then, they were really stuck up elitists on our campus]. I protested in a rabble yelling abuse at a tory mp arrogant enough to visit our lefty Polytechnic.. Even came too close to chucking a spunk filled johnny at the queen mum, before I snapped out of it and realised the crowd would rip me apart before the police even got to me... .. and various other youthful futile petty protests... I do still wish I had set fire to that rolls royce, though again had sense enough to withdraw sensibly in tactical retreat. The fate of the owners golf clubs had to make do as a symbolic gesture of class war defiance, and militant cycling.. .. and I wrote some pithy punk rock protest songs.. 40 years ago, I made serious principled decisions how I would not live my life, and stubbornly stuck to them no matter how self defeating it's turned out for my financial well being.. [It's a lot easier being an eco warrior in a North Wales TeePee, on a trust fund...] However our living in the past, dwelling on old battle glories, is not helping persuade back near enough Labour voters NOW... Just rewatched the first episode of "The Young Ones" this evening.. We can't stay being Rick for all the rest of our lives... Then again, I have avoided ending up a middle class self-rightious cartoon lefty blowhard... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 06:11 PM Dtg - stop repeating yourself dictating terms.. We had enough of that with Jim. I've already answered you in my own way... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 14 Oct 21 - 06:14 PM You posted that before you read my last post. I'm not going to list the pickets and protests I've been on, why would I. I've had my ups and downs as a leftie and I've even been excoriated by people ostensibly on my own side. That's leftie life. Six in the morning on a picket line, outside a school miles from my own when I had to show up for work a couple of hours later, sub-zero temperatures, supporting school cleaners and dinner ladies being shat on by a supposedly Labour council... Been there, done it, got the t-shirt, even though a bloody duffel coat would have been nice... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 14 Oct 21 - 06:26 PM Bullshit, pfr. You know full well that politeness and tenderness gets nothing done. You don't like the road protests. For the nth time, I'm not that keen either. So what would you do instead? Write to our MPs? Start up a cosy petition on Change.org? Do nothing?? Honestly, mate, you need to either answer or to lose credibility... Here's a nice bit of context. Today, it's been revealed that the US, India and China are all going to increase their use of coal. Remind me to recycle my next plastic milk bottle in order to prevent the planet's doom. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 14 Oct 21 - 06:45 PM Still got my 1980s Donkey Jacket which I defiantly wore everywhere. Haven't fetched it out to look at for over 20 years. Doubt if it will still fit me - maybe the moths have had it...??? We are on the same side, with presumably similar goals, and aspirations for a better future before it is too late. I made a decision in the early 80s not to bring kid's into a world with what was then such an uncertain nuclear wasteland future. So I don't have a personal vested stake in the extended longevity of humanity. Apart from my innate affinity for some kinds of people.. Like it or lump it, I've never been one of those lefties who over-estimates the effective power of disruptive street protests... WE do not have enough time left to squander on stupid backfiring tactics, and loose cannon liability individuals and groups who do our progressive cause more harm than good.. Seems simple enough to me...??? You're right, we don't know who insulate Britain, and their real leaders are. so I have no firm reasons not to be suspicious of them and their motives... But I do generally trust my hard earned judgement of people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Oct 21 - 03:11 AM No, you have not answered, PFR. You just prevaricate and resort to what you think may be insults. You should know by now, neither work with me. If you don't know what you would have them do, fine. Just say so but remember it is far easier to criticise than do something constructive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Oct 21 - 06:18 AM I'd be more than happy to use more coal, and bring back steam engines!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Oct 21 - 09:17 AM watch these fucking idiots They deserve to be mown down by the traffic. Could you imagine the French police being so gentle!!!!!!!!!!!! They should be marched away at gunpoint. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Oct 21 - 09:32 AM Dtg - you seem willfully unable to read what I AM saying and joining the dots for yourself...??? From my point of view you are taking on the self appointed role of a nagging bossy debate agenda terms setting 'moderator'... We had one of those before, and as much as I liked, respected and supported the esteemed old bloke, mudcat made him unwelcome and permanently gone. we don't need a replacement. I will not be nagged into conforming to your demands. I live a principled minimal footprint green lifestyle, have done all my life, and do not need to make grand public virtue signalling protest of my wokey greeness... I'll leave that to multiple car owning frequent flier muddle class eco revolutionaries... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Mr Red Date: 15 Oct 21 - 09:56 AM It's beginning to look a lot like Brexit Let's play dominoes at Christmas .............................. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: DMcG Date: 15 Oct 21 - 10:10 AM According the Wikipedia "The early 18th century saw the "game of domino" surfacing in Europe, appearing first in Italy, before rapidly spreading to Austria, southern Germany and France. From France, the game was introduced to England by the late 1700s, purportedly brought in French prisoners-of-war." That all sounds dangerously European, even EU. Maybe grandma is up for a game of 'British Bulldog.' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Oct 21 - 10:14 AM PFR - I am not making any demands at all. Just asking a question that you have chosen not to answer. That's absolutely fine by me and your lack of alternatives to the M25 protest seems, to me, to indicate that you do not have one. Fair enough. I don't know what is the best form of protest either. I have no need to signal anything wokey (your term) as I am neither middle class, multiple car owning nor a frequent flyer. If you chose to fire off broadsides you really do need to chose your targets more carefully. Oh, and I do not have multiple electronic music making gadgets either :-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Oct 21 - 10:46 AM It's a trade off balance.. One new fuzz box is offset by not buying any new trousers for at least 3 years... btw.. no need for you thinking I'm getting at you personally.. .. Unless you are feeling guilty about something or other.. I'm just having a chuckle with Bonzo style language and stereotypes.. For all his faults and prejudices, he's actually not always wrong... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Oct 21 - 10:48 AM Another murdered MP. How bloody awful... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Oct 21 - 10:53 AM Bugger :-( David Amess The world is, sadly, full of nutters |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Oct 21 - 10:57 AM "They deserve to be mown down by the traffic..." Alternatively, we could agree to continue to abide by the rule of law... By the way, if you like nice conspiracy theories, there's a current one that sez that no road protesters will be thrown in jail just before the COP26. Far too embarrassing to have right-minded environmental campaigners behind bars whilst the bigwigs are talking bollocks about the climate emergency... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Oct 21 - 10:59 AM PFR - Yes, I know it isn't personal and, no, I don't feel guilty about anything. I have bought hardly any new clothes or furniture for what must be 5 years now! All charity shop stuff (Apart from underwear!) Not out of necessity but because it is a greener thing to do. I also walk or cycle where I can, never buy highly processed food and knit my own petrol. (NB. One of the previous statements is false) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: DMcG Date: 15 Oct 21 - 11:06 AM Of course, killing anyone, MP or not, is terrible. That he was doing so at his surgery is doubly tragic, because, like Jo Cox who was killed at hers, it can only make MPs more wary of going to surgeries at all, which will reduce their links to their constituents further. This is tragic whichever party the MP is a member of and we need to look again at how to protect them when they are meeting constituents. I will, however, hold off talk of 'nutters'. We don't know enough about the perpetrator yet, and it may turn out that 'despairing' is a better fit. I don't excuse, but I would still like to understand what the assailant's state was. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Oct 21 - 11:22 AM Sorry DMcG. Maybe nutter is the wrong term for the perpetrator but anyone who purposely kills another human being is not a full shilling. I have been despairing of world politics for the last 5 years but I have not stabbed anyone. Yet... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Stilly River Sage Date: 15 Oct 21 - 11:34 AM Dave, the charity shop/thrift store shopping isn't just greener, it's very practical. At least for the time being people are setting aside some fairly new, rarely used, really good stuff that I could never have afforded new. And all because they have the next big thing at their house (for many these days it is an Instapot or an Air Fryer). I'm happy to use the electric skillet or convection toaster oven at my house or rehome it to family or via eBay.) And if anyone is in the market for really good crock pots, they're filling the thrift store shelves now. As to the death of an MP, that is horrible. Here in the US it seems there are some congressional folks who rarely if ever see their constituents even in controlled (safe) settings, and this kind of thing gives them all the more excuse to not start seeing their voters now. I imagine it's the same over there. (US Congressperson Gabby Giffords was shot at one of her in-person events, and she miraculously survived a serious head injury, but that was mostly due to good luck and the close-by surgeons at the University of Arizona hospital system.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Oct 21 - 11:38 AM I never wear long trousers, I have no long-sleeve shirts, I don't wear socks and my footwear consists exclusively of cheap sandals bought at Mountain Warehouse (I do have a single shirt, jacket, trousers and pair of black shoes for weddings and funerals. I've had those shoes for 35 years :-)) If you expect me to wear a tie you can go to hell. I don't have any big, thick coats and I wouldn't wear them, and I have no sweaters or cardies and I can't abide slippers. I buy two or three cheap flowery shirts per annum. But we are of this world, and everything I DO buy seems to be made in China. My very large informal garden is operated on organic lines and I grow a lot of veg. I have a considerable "wild" area, and the perimeter consists of nettles, brambles and brushwood, fantastic for wildlife. My house is four miles from town. The cycle ride thereto is very dangerous. Without a car, no-one would ever live in this house. The days of the horse and cart are long gone. There is next to no public transport here, and in any case the nearest road is a ten-minute walk away. So I'm not going to apologise for running a car. I passed the MOT two days ago and noted that in the last year I did about 6000 miles. On a (very necessary) hundred-mile round trip to the hospital on Tuesday I got 60.5 miles to the gallon. I'm not skint and I have no debts. This house is mine. I wouldn't say that I live frugally, as I don't need to, but neither do I splash out. Since 2010, before which we hardly ever left this country, we've had about seven or eight holidays in Spain, Italy and Greece. I'm hardly what you might call a frequent flyer, but yes I've flown in planes a few times. We've had double glazing fitted all round at some expense, which keeps the house warmer and reduces our fuel consumption. We have multifuel stoves in two rooms on which we burn some smokeless fuel and quite a lot of wood (which I season) from our own garden. Dutch Elm disease is a curse but it does have that upside for us. I do some things right and a few things wrong, but I don't appreciate being lectured to by to people who at one turn plead poverty and at another turn challenge me for doing things they don't do but which, for all I know, they might well do if they had similar (modest) resources to me. Not that anyone here fits that bill... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: DMcG Date: 15 Oct 21 - 11:41 AM anyone who purposely kills another human being is not a full shilling My wife has just remarked that Priti Patel might think this a perfect time to reintroduce the death penalty - only for very exceptional circumstances, naturally (at the moment.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 Oct 21 - 11:50 AM Indeed, DMcG. I would expect nothing less from her! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Oct 21 - 11:55 AM Conservative MP Sir David Amess has died after being stabbed at his constituency surgery at Southend West this afternoon. He came from a humble East End background and was an animal loving MP. A 25 year old man has been arrested. Terribly sad. RIP. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: punkfolkrocker Date: 15 Oct 21 - 12:14 PM Steve - when folks, friend or foe, start acting high and mighty.. preaching at, or ganging up on me. I will respond by taking the piss.. That is a very traditional British defence mechanism... But today another MP has been brutally murdered. So at such a time for sombre reflection, amicable truces must be called on petty squabbles... cheers mates... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Oct 21 - 01:00 PM I have many long sleeved shirts, thick jumpers, long trousers and long heavy coats, partially to keep me warm and partially so that I'm not mistaken for most local lower classes who wear bum freezer summer jackets even in sub zero temperatures. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Oct 21 - 03:40 PM I have gilets (pretentious? Moi?) that I got in a job lot from Mountain Warehouse, £44.99 down to £12.99 each. Their loss, my gain. They are made of cotton. I will not go out looking like Michelin Man. In winter, that's my garb, one of them on top of a shirt. If it's pissing down or a bit draughty, I wear a cheap waterproof on top. Always shorts and sandals. I'm famous for it round here. And I'll have you know that a bum freezer summer jacket looks great on the right bum, all year round. You're talking like a fashion victim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Steve Shaw Date: 15 Oct 21 - 04:02 PM By the way, pfr: "Steve - when folks, friend or foe, start acting high and mighty.. preaching at, or ganging up on me..." It's called "challenging you." I get a lot of that round here and I relish it. If you feel as if you're backed into a corner, either come out doughtily defending yourself or reflect that you might have been mistaken. The worst thing is to get all defensive. Dave and I are, after all, the two biggest softies on the forum. Aren't we, Dave...? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 15 Oct 21 - 04:13 PM Dave and I are, after all, the two biggest softies on the forum. Aren't we, Dave...? quote this forum is starting to resemble the mad hatters tea party What happened at the Mad Hatters tea Party? Alice approaches a large table set under the tree outside the March Hare's house and comes across the Mad Hatter and the March Hare taking tea. They rest their elbows on a sleeping Dormouse who sits between them. ... After their argument, the tea party sits in silence until the Mad Hatter asks the March Hare the time. Alice in Wonderland |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: The Sandman Date: 15 Oct 21 - 04:19 PM mean while an MP has been murdered |
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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics From: Donuel Date: 15 Oct 21 - 04:23 PM Mr. Red may be onto something. The only thing missing is a ufo conspiracy to join the blame game ;^/ |