BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 01:43 PM

"I doubt that you, Doug, pfr or I know a single one of them"

I'm at ease with that..

I've known more than my fair share of political nutters [on my own side] in the past..

I was one of them before I came close to doing something so stupidly vandalistic as a futile protest in my mid 20s
I'd have ended up in prison,
but thankfully came to my senses...

Let's just say I was a militant cyclist anti-cars protester.. and leave it at that......


Remember, I studied and lived in BRISTOL for years..
[look up Stokes Croft Road, as a nexus for revolutionary misfits/nutcases...]

.. and my roots and current resting place aint that far from Glastonbury...

In fact I'm always only a phone call away from getting back in touch with a bunch of 'em...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 03:03 PM

I too have been on lots of demos and picket lines and I've been threatened not only by the police (also whilst on my bike as it happens) but also by the establishment in my trade union (which was called the NUT in those days). I've been to many a frenetic far-left meeting in an upstairs smoke-filled room. In my somewhat naive yoof I admit to having tended to see things in too much black and white. Just like those party conferences we've just endured, those rooms were bubbles insulated from the outside world. Many of my socialist mates were revolutionaries, but I was never that and I didn't join anything other than the Anti-Nazi League. I like to think I take more of a measured view of things these days, hopefully informed by better understanding of the issues of the day with just a smattering of pragmatism thrown in. I've also been one of those lucky buggers who bought a cheap house with a little mortgage just before the era of house-price booms set in and who has enjoyed a secure-job-for-long-as-I-wanted-it. But I've never shed my leftie predilections and I love to be called a leftie. I won't bother listing what that actually means, but at least I've managed to avoid conspiratorial thoughts to the effect that everyone I see on the telly in a protest is a faux-leftie-ex-student-union-middle-class-showboating-git with a hint of the earth-mother thrown in...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 03:06 PM

I forgot to mention that those times were spent in Poplar and Stepney, in the East End...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 04:40 PM

if i was in charge in the uk , i would offer all car or van drivers who are also signing on the chance to keep their dole money if they did two OR 3 days a week training as an HGV DRIVER,
I WOULD MAKE THE SAME OFFER TO PEOPLE WHO WERE PREPARED TO LEARN THE SKILLS OF FRUIT PICKING [TWO DAYS A WEEK] With two days off to recover because it is hard work, eventualy there might be a possibilty that these people could have jobs full time

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 05:29 PM

My son who used to work for the local council HAD a HGV licence. It has now lapsed because he changed his employment.

At the moment, due to cock up beyond his control, he can no longer fulfil his normal job (although that will hopefully change very soon) and is out of work.

However despite having once held a HGV licence the cost and the time of having it reinstated is prohibitive. Somewhere about the £2,000 mark.

With the cost of training, in excess of what my sone would have to pay, and the length of time involved it is not realistic to train new drivers for this current event.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 06:23 PM

There have been well documented problems at the DVLA. The bosses blame the unions and the unions blame the bosses.

"This week the DfT admitted in response to a parliamentary question that there were 56,144 applications for vocational driving licences – for lorry and bus drivers – awaiting processing. It said of these, about 4,000 were for provisional licences, while the “vast majority” were for renewals. In most cases, drivers could continue to drive while the application was being processed.

The DVLA said provisional licences were being issued in about five days but conceded that “more complex transactions”, for example if medical investigations were needed, may face “longer delays.”"

The Guardian

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 03:03 AM

in answer to raggytash , this problem has been caused by the uk government, perhaps they should then to some extent fund the training what alternative is there?
in the meantime my suggestion for training fruit pickers[ another skilled job]is imo a good one, the uk government has to find a solution to a problem that has been caused by brexit

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 03:20 AM

According to Johnson and sundry members of The Johnson Gang, the shortage of HGV drivers is a ‘world-wide’ problem, exacerbated by the Covid-19 pandemic, nothing at all to do with Brexit.

And our esteemed and revered Prime Minister, pillar of moral rectitude that he is, would never set out to deceive us, would he? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 03:28 AM

A point I have made many times, and no doubt will many times more, is that every company I have ever worked in has a staff shortage. That is no good thing, of course, but it can be managed by overtime, buying back leave and so on. It only becomes a problem when the staff shortage becomes so severe that those techniques are not enough and it turns into shortage of product.

That there are HGV shortages in Poland, or whatever, is not good but they have been able to manage it via cabotage and drivers from elsewhere and similar techniques so it does not flow over into product shortages.

You cannot just treat HGV driver shortages and goods shortages as essentially equivalent.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 03:42 AM

Indeed, DMcG, indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 06:40 AM

The prime minister and every cabinet minister have clearly been primed to claim at every juncture that it's not this country's fault, it's global, when challenged about the crisis that this country is facing. Well yes. But we are in a much worse state than many other countries because we have under-invested in the NHS for a decade, we've converted to a penal benefits system that has catapulted hundreds of thousands of people into food-bank poverty, we ignored all warnings about future pandemics years ago, we recklessly went ahead with brexit, we cruise along thinking that we don't have to train for skills because foreigners are happy to come here, allowing ruthless profiteering employers to drive down wages, and, well, in a nutshell, events always overtake us. We never see things coming. Oh, and the last time I looked into it we were the only country with queues at petrol pumps. So we lack the skills and we have low pay and we have millions on benefits facing a bleak winter and we have five-year waiting lists.

But what's this I hear? We are going to magic up a high-skill, high-wage workforce with minimal immigration! All I can say to that is that we've heard about the magic to come but we've heard nothing about the method. It's all words and no plan. He genuinely doesn't know what to do. He'd better start praying that we have a mild winter and no flu epidemic. And just wait 'til April when he'll have to lift the energy price cap by a few hundred quid for the millions of families already on their uppers with high rents, the sudden loss of twenty quid a week, inflation going through the roof, shortages on supermarket shelves...

Merry Christmas everybody!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 07:26 AM

Just been watching a repeat of Johnson’s so-called ‘speech’ at the Tories’ Annual Love-in and Piss-up, and the standing ovation at the end.

What on Earth do those people have in place of grey-matter?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 10:16 AM

"Tory MP James Brokenshire dies aged 53 after lung cancer battle"

No.. I'm not a cruel lefty thug who'd mock the death of this fellow human being..

But what a perfect surname for a tory MP...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 01:42 PM

You are quite correct Sandman, the government could and should provide the necessary training (free of charge).

Had they been any sort of decent government they could and should have done this months ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 03:35 AM

Anyone seen "Ridley Road" on the BBC? Deserves a thread of its own but as it is likely to cause political comment, I'll mention it here.

Set in the early 60's against the backdrop of the rising National Socialist League. I was amazed by how much has not changed :-( Minority groups are still blamed for the countries ills and people are still falling for it. People fighting against injustice are still targeted by the police. Politicians and the media are still preying on peoples fears. It's a brilliant drama but who would have thought it could have been a blueprint for today's extreme politics!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 04:17 AM

I just read that farmers in Lincolnshire (county north of our Norfolk) are now offering £30 an hour to attract workers to come and harvest broccoli!! I expect this was always done by European migrant workers, but the sad thing is that our British people don't want to work in the fields nowadays, not even for £30 an hour!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 04:32 AM

But you support capitalism don't you, Eliza? Wasn't it Maggie Thatcher that introduced the Yuppie "screw everybody else" economy? Didn't your illustrious leader just say that high wages were more important than people's lives? Aren't the Tory Party blaming those damned Europeans for all our ills?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 05:05 AM

It was not always done by migrant workers Senoufou. I remember when it was not unusual for people on the dole to work on the land for cash in hand. All off the books of course.

Picking crops is seasonal work of course. Most people would prefer an all year round job,if given the choice, rather than a seasonal one. In recent times this has been done by migrant workers, a lot of whom would just come here during the crop season.

It is hard bloody work. Someone i know did some fruit picking last year. Long hours, encouraged to work 7 days a week, poor conditions as well. The crop does have to be picked quickly in order for the shops to take it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 05:45 AM

Along with other young people during my schooldays, I used to go beet-singling and spud-bashing to earn some pocket money. The farmer would send his beat up old van round to pick us up from our road-end. Sore hands from beet-singling, sore back from spud bashing, and sore ears from the effing and blinding of the farmer at us because we weren’t doing it properly, or fast enough, or both. Crap money, but better than nowt.

My mum also did both when I was a child and she didn’t have a permanent full-time job.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 05:46 AM

Well, in order to fend off inflation, the thirty-quid broccoli-pickers would have to pick it three times as fast! :-) ...And have we got the appetite for three times as many helpings of that boring veg... But seriously, we've bumped along the bottom for many years apropos of productivity in this country. I want to know how the Tories intend to raise productivity in order to justify his dream of a high-wage economy. Otherwise, higher wages means higher prices, companies unable to pay them going out of business, inflation, more people pitched into poverty, more food banks... So what's the plan? Eh??

Ridley Road is superb. I'm not one of those who binge-watches on iPlayer. One week at a time!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 06:02 AM

Dave the Gnome:
Didn't your illustrious leader just say that high wages were more important than people's lives?

No, he didn't. Much as some people seem to love misquoting him, The Guardian seems to quote his actual words: In a BBC interview on Friday before the Conservative party conference, the prime minister was challenged that there was no measure for determining whether those who were more deprived were really catching up with those who were better off under the policy.

Johnson replied: “I’ve given you the most important metric – never mind life expectancy, never mind cancer outcomes – look at wage growth.

So he was not saying wage growth was more important, only that it was a better 'metric' (measure) of levelling up!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 06:24 AM

With regard to farming and farm workers wages, we should remember that as customers we have some of the lowest food prices in the world. This is driven by the supermarkets who, in order to attract us the customers, are continually forcing the food producers to cut costs.


Which report on food prices from 2019


"Globally, after Singapore and the US, the UK spends the lowest proportion of household income on food shopping, lower than our European neighbours Germany, France and Spain.

We’ve compared how much popular foods cost in 1988 with the equivalent cost in today’s money, accounting for inflation, and the actual cost in June 2019. All foods we investigated are cheaper to buy now, apart from white fish."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 06:42 AM

So how did he think that would be interpreted, Nigel, with those brushing-aside "never minds?" Not clever, that, was it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 06:58 AM

Well he doesn’t have to persuade the likes of Nigel does he? They would accept any lie Johnson spun, and those are legion, without question.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 07:47 AM

My quesruin would be in what sense is that a better metric? A different one, certainly, but to assert us is better is to say the others are inferior, which is certainly open to challenge.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 07:53 AM

In fact, let's try a thought experiment. We will offer you a thousand a year more, but the more you take, the earlier we shoot you. do you take the money? I don't. which suggests wages are not more important than life expectancy for me.
Your view may differ.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 08:28 AM

Not got round to watching Ridley Road yet.. So no spoilers please..

I'd be a good Jewish spy infilrating British fascists..
I've got blue eyes and a foreskin...!!!

There's bound to be closet gay pretend homophobe fascists keen to check out new knobs in the urinals.

Seriously, I secretly followed a thread on a well known white power forum,
where they hotly debated if they would allow and trust quarter Jew Mischlings [like me] to join the cause...

Short answer - No...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 12:03 PM

I suppose it is a better metric if you want to be measured on wealth rather than health. In other words if you think that wages are more important than lives.

Give it a rest, Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 12:09 PM

I grew up in the 1970s taking it as a fact of life that succesful business men
dropped dead in their 50s..

Why they aspired to take early retirement in their 40s...

Well at least that was the impression I got from the News of that era......

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 05:00 PM

Ist episode of Ridley Road was very good.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 06:15 PM

I binge watched them all in one go!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 10:01 AM

Things are certainly not getting easier. Though the government have had to deal with the effects of brexit, covid in the uk and the associated problems with world trade, they cannot keep burying their heads in the sand.

There are no easy solutions but they do have to start addressing the problem. Let us hope that there are still not any containers full of government ppe sitting on the quays.

From The Lodestar

It's all going tits up at UK box ports

"The UK’s main container ports are overwhelmed with unclaimed imports and starting to refuse the restitution of empty boxes urgently needed back in Asia.

And other North European ports are also heavily congested, but the acute HGV driver shortage in the UK has extended container dwell times significantly in past weeks, with the country’s main box hubs now “in danger of grinding to a complete halt”, according to one industry observer.

Yesterday, Felixstowe suspended the restitution of Evergreen, Maersk and CMA CGM empty returns.

Other carriers are also expected to be restricted by the port, but there is no indication as yet that there could be a blanket stop on receiving empty equipment, or that export deliveries could be halted.

In a customer advisory, Evergreen says the block on the return of its empties at Felixstowe was “due to the large volume of import containers coming into the port” against the backdrop of “a well-publicised national driver shortage”.

It added: “Import container dwell times are increasing as a result and causing port congestion.”

The carrier said that since the Felixstowe gate had closed, its restitution team had received “a surge of e-mail enquiries” and asked customers to “bear with us” while it processed them.

“Unfortunately, we have no choice but to temporarily direct all empty units to Tilbury, Liverpool, Teesport and the port of Tyne,” it said, adding that the drop-off locations were “subject to change”, and suggested that customers “contact our restitution team before returning any containers”.

Evergreen said it would contribute to the extra costs by waiving drop-off charges at the new locations, but shippers are being saddled with substantial additional wasted journey and additional haulage charges. Indeed, one forwarder told The Loadstar the extra cost was as much as £500 ($680) per box.

“Merchant hauliers are killing us, charging between £300 and £500 additional for redirecting the empty to another port,” he said.

Meanwhile, in a customer advisory today, Maersk says the empty stop at Felixstowe was due to “the high volume of empty containers on the terminal”, adding: “In giving you this information we hope to avoid further congestion and port congestion.

“We advise that you steer merchant haulage empty returns to London Gateway,” said the carrier, adding that it could also accommodate empty restitution at its feeder ports in the north of the country.

“We understand that this is far from ideal and continue to follow the situation closely with the port, and are looking at ways to reopen as soon as possible,” said Maersk.

Another forwarder said: “It’s getting worse at Felixstowe as the day goes on – now you can’t deliver boxes back there and hauliers are in the wrong places, which is also having further impact on tonight/tomorrow’s collections.

“It’s going very much ‘tits-up’ very rapidly, with knock-on effects causing greater disruption than the obvious congestion – it’s all being pushed back through the chain. This will be a major issue by next week, I suspect.”

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 10:56 AM

Next, boris announces world beating scheme to imediately repurpose congested dock yards of thousands of empty containers
as levelling-up social housing estates...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 11:58 AM

Well containers have and are being used for a short term solution to the housing shortage. A modern version of the prefab.

Container housing

Of course we could start to make better use of the available housing in the UK.

AirBnBs in Margate 'damaging' community

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 06:41 AM

Containers are already being re-purposed as refugee housing in Malta Irish Times

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 08:02 AM

As per my earlier post, containers have been used for housing here in the UK. Ealing council have been using them since 2017 according to this article from The Guardian in 2019.

'They just dump you here': the homeless families living in shipping containers

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 01:39 PM

Well I've just heard Prince Hypocrite rattling on about environmental issues. He runs his 51-year-old Aston Martin on surplus English wine and cheese whey (sure he does...). He avoids meat and fish two days a week and dairy one day a week. Cor, that's hard! He wriggled when he was challenged about the cost of heating all those palaces. What didn't come up in the chat was the fact that the royals own thousands of acres of grouse moor, which are a disaster for biodiversity and which have a huge carbon footprint. Gamekeepers are famous for illegally driving some raptors almost to extinction and for slaughtering smaller mammals that compete with or predate the grouse. All that burning doesn't just pollute the air, it also damages the peat underneath, one of the most important carbon sinks in the country. Kate, William and Harry are all keen shooters. Why, last summer they even took little Prince George, aged seven, on his first shoot!

Pass the vomit bucket...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Oct 21 - 04:22 AM

There is a lot in the press about the government failings in handling the pandemic which are recorded in a new joint report from two Parliamentary Committees.

As so often, the articles I have seen don't tell you how to read the actual report, and as most of you will know, I like to start there, not with people's interpretations of it.

You can find the actual report here. It is the "Sixth Report - Coronavirus: lessons learned to date" you need.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Oct 21 - 06:00 AM

I strong recommend people look at the report. Unlike many official documents, it is extremely readable, and addresses many important issues. One area in particular in the first hundred or so numbered paragraphs is the nature of the SAGE group and records how its advice differed from the approaches being adopted in Asia and recommended by WHO. The government stressed a lot in the the early days, and is stressing again today, that they followed the scientific advice and this report concurs: there was little to separate the SAGE groups advice from the government's actions. However, as paragraphs 96-102 discuss, despite the difficulties, the government did have the responsibility to challenge the advice, particularly where it differed from the approaches adopted in Asia, which seemed to be successful in bring the disease under control. It notes in paragraph 112 that only one of the participants in SAGE was not from a UK institution.

As I say, worth reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Oct 21 - 03:32 AM

I have not read it all but I gather the government come out in a bad light. Apart from with vaccinations. Which were developed by scientists, administered by the NHS and the government had little to do with. Boris will still claim it as a personal triumph and the idiots will still believe him :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Oct 21 - 06:23 AM

That is true, Dave, but so does SAGE. Far too sure of itself, given the limited data. Far too unwilling to look at how Asia was handling things and so forth.

But crucially, they are clear this does not let the government off the hook. "We were following the science" is regarded as threadbare. The government was always at liberty to impose stricter requirements. Follow science but do more, as it were. This is what Asia's successes suggested.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Oct 21 - 11:33 AM

This is so typical of the shite this government try to pedal to the country.

UK Border Force could be given immunity over refugee deaths

I still don't think that the UK will push back any vessel in the channel. It is just shite talk from people who realise there are no easy solutions to dealing with this problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 21 - 04:10 PM

Following on from my attack on the ultimate royal hypocrite, here's a timely piece in today's Guardian, written by Chris Packham, in which he calls for the royals to rewild their vast estates.

On the eve of the crucial Cop26 summit in Glasgow, at which members of the British monarchy are due to appear, the royals with their estates will find themselves forced to pick a side in this historic battle. The astonishing 1.4% of the country the royals own (that’s an area of land twice the size of Greater London) define some of the most nature-depleted landscapes in the world. In their more than 345,000 hectares (850,000 acres), huge areas of grouse moor and deer-stalking estates are, in the name of sport, kept artificially barren where exquisite temperate rainforest could and should grow. Grouse moors in particular – considered by experts to be ecological disaster zones – are regularly and deliberately burned. By annihilating the vegetation (and just about everything else that lives there), grouse moor defenders claim to be conserving historic landscapes while actually only preserving a colonial-era attitude to our precious natural world.

Elsewhere, royal land further undermines the environmental leadership that some royals have sincerely attempted. For all his love of tree planting, Prince Charles’s Duchy of Cornwall sadly has just 6% tree coverage compared with the EU average of 38%. No amount of cheese and wine-powered Aston Martins can fix that one. Meanwhile the Queen’s Sandringham estate, campaigners estimate, has barely 12% of its 20,000 acres set aside for priority habitats according to estimates by campaign group Who Owns Norfolk?. With Prince William recently taking to the BBC to champion rewilding, one wonders if the royals are actually aware of the current state of their own land – although pictures of William out hunting with his son do continue to jar with me. I do so wish we could meet and address these issues.

Well done Chris for being a damn sight more measured, probably a damn sight more effective as a result, than I am...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 21 - 06:52 PM

.. and he's still a big fan of punk rock...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Oct 21 - 09:23 PM

Yeah, and Franco was a daily communicant...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 08:05 AM

These arrogant shits who glue themselves to busy roads causing mayhem for ordinary folks trying to live their lives, should be glued to prison cells.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 08:28 AM

From the recent 'on the road' video interviews I've seen last night,
some of them seriously remind me of the mentally unwell people
my sister used to congregate with on single-issue obsessions and activism...

They are like cults...!!!

Some topics just bring them together...

My sister's mental health problems caused untold damage to my family,
and I am still caught up in fall-out of the extra problems she left behind when she passed...

To her fellow campaigners, my sister was probably regarded as a champion activist..

To her family and any ordinary folks, she was unforgivingly intolerant and an obnoxious attention seeking martyr...

She'd have fitted in well with insulate Britain, yet another bandwagon for her to sieze upon, and try to become a public figurehead for.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 10:00 AM

So you're now tarring protesters who you don't know in person with the mental illness brush. Wow.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 10:15 AM

Yes, if that's the way you want to distort what I've written..

But a study of the relationship between extremist protest and mental health,
is a valid angle for serious debate.

If I was doing the same kind of higher education courses now as I did 35 to 40 years ago,
I'd quite possibly consider it as a proposal for a dissertation..

When ordinary folks complain that these protesters are annoying antisocial nutters,
they have a very fair point...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 10:56 AM

And the people sitting in the jams behind the wheels of massive 4x4s, fuming away, too thick to switch off their pollution-belching engines, are not annoying, antisocial nutters then...