BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 21 - 06:29 PM

I suppose that the fact that we're in a supposed Brit thread might protect us, for a bit at least, from those right-wing Yank Israel-apologist deniers...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 May 21 - 06:37 PM

Nice weather for this time of the year...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 21 - 07:05 PM

And Alisson Becker has just scored a legendary goal...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 17 May 21 - 03:05 AM

whenever a politician or a journalist wants to lie to us they always put on the suit. the bigger the lie the more expensive the suit. they leave the behind the scenes dirty work to the uniform - the suits' military wing. suits are just protective armour against truth and decency. you don't get lies from a bereaved father in a t-shirt and sandals

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 May 21 - 04:16 AM

UK politicians now seem too cowed and timid to open their mouths in protest
against rogue state allies..

.. too afraid they might personally suffer the same hostile consequences as Corbyn...!!!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 May 21 - 05:36 AM

The pro-Israel lobbies in both major parties are mighty powerful and their knives are kept permanently sharpened. The best you'll get is "we condemn Hamas rockets and Israel has the right to defend itself." Same in America. No context is ever allowed or admitted to. The gun lobby, the pro-Israel lobby and the big corporations have got the US politicians in their pockets. What price democracy?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 May 21 - 07:11 AM

spot on steve

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 May 21 - 05:32 PM

Benjamin Netanyahu protects his citizens and gives them all the security they need by killing 61 children in Gaza. The most sacred areas of Jerusalem, which would normally have been crowded today, were almost deserted, ordinary people frightened to go out. More vetos from the US (aka utter paralysis) and, well, I have hardly heard a word from the politicians here...

One fine day the citizens of Israel will see the light...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 May 21 - 05:44 PM

One tory mp was on BBC news today,
disgusted by rising antisemitism in London and Essex,
and UK social media posts gloryfying hamas...


.. nothing else seemed to be perturbing him...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 17 May 21 - 08:15 PM

Both of these are from The New York Times. I really don't know if clicking on them will allow you to read them through the paywall) or not: Each one is different from my initial reactions, and each one of them is somewhat different from opinions posted in this thread so far:


Bret Stephens - If the left got its Wish for Israel

Thomas Friedman - For Bibi and Hamas it's always Jan06

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 17 May 21 - 10:45 PM

also opinion from one Bernie Sanders

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 May 21 - 11:11 PM

Careful, Steve. You will have your party membership revoked!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 May 21 - 04:08 AM

is the covid danger from indian variant being exaggerated ,please note this is a question not a statement, as the medida seem to like to sensationalise, neiher am i saying there is not a danger, so varying opinions welcome

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 May 21 - 04:31 AM

The NYT piece is fantasy with some scraps of food for thought lurking like tiny little jewels in a crock of shite. Here's the nub:

"But perhaps the progressive Israeli government might yet succeed if a U.N.-sanctioned, U.S.-led force — you might almost call it a mandate — agreed to deploy peacekeeping forces to guarantee Jewish rights and security."

A truly progressive Israel would immediately ditch the need "to guarantee Jewish rights and security" and start talking about guaranteeing the rights and security of all Israelis, the 20% Arabs in the population and the Christians, and the rest, alike. Anything less is not progressive and won't work. Your writer seems to be displaying the same old stale predictions to the same old stale scenario. If you don't start from the position that there is massive discrimination in Israel against non-Jews, Arabs in particular, you haven't a hope of solving this.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 May 21 - 04:38 AM

I can't get past the headline of the other two pieces. Bernie may well be right, but he forgets that the iron grip of the US pro-Israel lobby would thereby ensure that Biden was toast. Refusing to veto resolutions critical of the Israeli regime would be a bloody good start, but, for that same reason, it won't happen. For many decades the US has enabled this problem to persist, and Biden doesn't look like changing anything. "I would support a ceasefire" is as far as it will ever go.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 21 - 10:53 AM

If starmer and other conservatives don't get up in arms and disgusted over this shocking breaking news,
I will feel seriously disappointed and severely let down...

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/whats-on/food-drink/bristol-bar-owner-fuming-after-5427386.amp

It's that bloody protest mad Bristol again,
Not content with chucking slaver statues in the river, or trying to demolish police stations.
Now they're vandalising the Great British tradition of beer drinking..

This sort of foul graffiti should be kept inside on toilet doors,
as is the proper beer drinking tradition...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 May 21 - 07:15 PM

So Prince Willie wades in to excoriate the BBC over the 1995 Diana interview. It was a vile deceit that got Bashir his interview (though it also exposed some royal gullibility...) and the Beeb handled it very badly. But make no mistake, the royals and their satellites and acolytes are past masters when it comes to exploiting a mostly-sycophantic media for their own ends. It ill-behoves them to whine when on the odd occasion they get duped. And by the way, Meghan and Harry have been abused by the mass newspaper media for several years, yet not once do I recall Prince Willie sticking up for his little brother. I suppose it was because those same papers were locked in a love affair with him and Kate, so why would he ruffle their feathers? The stench of hypocrisy is almost overpowering. Put a sock in it, Willie...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 May 21 - 09:20 PM

So far no BBC news item I've seen has adequately explained, not even bothered trying to explain,
the relevance of these bank statements, and why they were so important to Di's brother...???

"Show me bank statements and I'll let you talk to my sister"..

Eh.. what was all that about then..?????

My obvious natural impulse is to be highly suspicious of that brother...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 May 21 - 11:42 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sUsvy4VHX0

4 mins of grim hilarity...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 21 May 21 - 02:59 AM

yes...as james o'brien put it - if you are still supporting johnson and the tories then you are a member of a deluded cult

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 May 21 - 01:09 PM

Was 'cult' a spelling mistake?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 May 21 - 04:11 AM

Maybe Willie doesn't care for his half brother Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 21 - 05:41 AM

To be fair to Harry and Lady Di, the red hair genes are autosomal recessive and can stay in the background for several generations until both prospective parents happen to be carriers, and even then there's only a one in four chance of their child being a redhead. To me, Harry's facial features do resemble Charles's to an extent. If Hewitt was Harry's dad, then Diana would also have been carrying the genes, suggesting that the genes were in her family anyway, and were just waiting fo their chance to pop out...

Genetics was always my weak spot at university, so I stand to be corrected...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 21 - 05:47 AM

Who has got half a willie? How does he cope?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 21 - 06:22 AM

Better than having a bent one. You wouldn't know whether you were coming or going...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 21 - 06:41 AM

So yet another full day of sanctimonious royal bollocks dominating TV news..

That William is going to be one insufferable priggish Pillock of a king..


Royalty couldn't get much worse if Simon cowell who was given the job of finding a replacement family for the job..

At least we'd have a gloriously tripe Saturday teatime TV show to take the piss out of...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 May 21 - 06:53 AM

I have always said that if we only keep royalty as a tourist attraction, it should be taken over by Disney. Imagine the money we could make then and the Disney Corp would soon put a stop to all these shenanigans :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 May 21 - 02:52 PM

PFR: Royalty couldn't get much worse if Simon cowell who was given the job of finding a replacement family for the job..

In English please?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 21 - 03:31 PM

English...???

Ok, **** off you pedantic supercilious ****...

You're lucky I've got a good sense of humour,
and don't take smug folks too seriously...

Yes I know that sentence was flawed,
I noticed immediately it was posted.

If my eyesight wasn't failing, I'd not have accidentally pressed submit before I'd finished proofreading
on this tiny smartphone screen and typing pad...

Let me guess, you're a royalist...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 May 21 - 03:36 PM

Yes, I'm a royalist (to some extent). But that still doesn't help me make any sense of your post.

Swearing at me (presumably that's what the asterisks replace) adds nothing to your earlier post, but is what I have come to expect.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 21 - 04:31 PM

The typical smarmy tory response of,

"Ooh, how dare you swear at me, I'm your superior...!!!"

Nearly always deployed to deflect from their own far more objectionable provocative behaviour...

Gotcha, royal fanboy...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 May 21 - 05:34 PM

The typical smarmy tory response of,

"Ooh, how dare you swear at me, I'm your superior...!!!"

I never claimed to be your superior. But if that's what you believe I'll let it go on this occasion.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 21 - 05:51 PM

petty minded conformist snobbery goes hand in hand with deference to royalty...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 21 - 07:51 PM

Exceptions exist. For example I thought Steve was too proper for a beard and was clean shaven like me.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 21 - 07:55 PM

I had no difficulty understanding either the substantive or the nuance of pfr's post, Nigel. I'm a bit surprised that you, of all people, knowing your predilection for over-analysing and nitpicking others' posts, should have such "difficulty." Blinded, perhaps, by your tendency towards royal sycophancy...? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 21 - 08:19 PM

Piss off, Donuel. You know so little of US politics, so you are as welcome in this thread as a fart in a spacesuit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:46 AM

Interesting piece on R4.

My interpretation was that Johnson is incapable of making coherent and consistent decisions on the grounds that he basis his decisions' and announcements on his overarching policy of staying in No 10, no latter what the public health, social and economic cost is.

Because of that he has to base his actions not upon the goodwill and welfare of the electorate who can do nothing but sit there with their mouths shut for another 4 years, but react to the whims of his rabid back benchers who can remove him at a moment's notice.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 21 - 10:29 PM

news about news

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 21 - 09:47 AM

They won’t remind us, but the tabloids hurt Diana just as much as Panorama did, a superb piece by Marina Hyde in last Friday's Guardian which highlights the hypocrisyfest currently swamping the media about Bashir and the BBC. The Beeb (of course) gets it in the neck, even though Diana wanted the interview, said similar things in other interviews and had been humiliated by Charles admitting his unfaithfulness to a Dimbleby in an interview. And the hypocrisy, then and now, of the tabloids is just staggering. And Piers Morgan and Kelvin McKenzie (!) excoriating the BBC. Journalists who lied and lied and hacked little girls' phones...You couldn't make it up (though they did, all the time). Johnson expressing concern about the duplicitous Beeb when he is one of the most duplicitous people on the planet...Prince William, shooting his mouth off about things he simply doesn't get. Unqualified people here, there and everywhere (including him) spouting about Diana's mental health and "paranoia". Her stupid brother trying to make a direct link between the interview and the car crash that killed her during her jolly in Paris with Dodi two years later...And the great British public, buying those bloody papers and provoking more and more royal digging, the tabloids' non-stop feeding frenzy on the royals, who simply love the attention anyway...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 21 - 10:30 AM

We have our differences on the topics of Man’s Best Friend, and the appalling, shameful spectacle of LP members more interested in fighting each other than they are in taking on the foulest bunch of Tory crooks and liars in living memory, Steve, but I’m in complete agreement with everything you say in your post above.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 May 21 - 10:57 AM

If anyone has the time, the link I posted relates too uncomfortably with Steve's post..

ie, the surreptitious covert active purging of any non right-wing voices from international journalism.
On any flimsiest of pretexts..

Yeah, vested interest Beeb bashers
will take advantage of the slightest opportunity for launching hostile attacks on the entire corporation..

In this instance, exploiting the dodgy actions of a handful of BBC staff
for ramping up across the whole board editorial interference from the tory party and their pay masters...

It'd be just the same as folks who don't like the tories,
damning the entire party and the their cronies as unscrupulous corrupt callous sociopathic bastards...

.. oh....

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 24 May 21 - 12:21 PM

Who likes a whistleblower,grass,nark, snitch etc etc?I guess it depends on which group or organisation is having its secrets exposed.

Prince William is probably happy in having   some light thrown on the intrigue involved in Bashir securing that interview. No doubt he is grateful to the people who helped expose it. Those whistleblowers are good.

On the other hand, Prince William is probably not too happy with Prince Harry & Meghan spilling the beans about their relationship with the 'firm'. Those whistleblowers are bad.

"And the great British public, buying those bloody papers and provoking more and more royal digging, the tabloids' non-stop feeding frenzy on the royals, who simply love the attention anyway..."

Does this include those members of the great British public who watched the Harry & Meghan interview with Oprah?

Personally what I find more important is the cover up by the BBC over the intervening years. That is far worse than the Bashir shenanigans. People lost their jobs as a result of that cover up. We will have to wait and see if we will ever find out the full facts about it. We might even find out how Bashir managed to be employed again by the BBC and then allowed to resign before the Dyson report was published.

Why do people cover up things? Some do so in order to hide their own wrongdoings. But what of those people who were not involved in the original wrongdoing? Why do they continue to cover up? Some might be rewarded to do so. Others do it in order to protect the reputation of the organisation they work for. They might do it for good reasons but it is still wrong to do it. It rarely turns out well in the end.

It was a good article by Marina Hyde in Saturday's Guardian newspaper. Nice to see mention of the Private Eye issue which got banned by W H Smiths.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 21 - 07:35 PM

Well let's have a think about that. First, in this country the major television companies are tightly regulated in a way that the tabloids are patently not. Blatant right- or left-wing bias is not tolerated, for example. Second, my taxes help to buoy up the royals. I have a right to be interested in what they get up to. My responsibility is to choose my sources of information carefully. Everybody on this thread who is talking about the royals has had to resort to the media to inform themselves. There is no other way. The interviews we are discussing here, namely the Bashir one and the Oprah one, were carefully constructed and conducted in measured tones. Whether they are valid and relevant documents is moot, but that much is clear. The coverage of the royals in the tabloids is routinely sycophantic to one "side" and excoriating to the other (the "sides" may or may not be the invention of the tabloids, but they are certainly exaggerated in the way the imagined confrontations are reported). It's about selling papers, not giving a carefully-balanced account of issues in the royal family. And the royals are fully complicit. Harry can whinge all he likes about the tabloids, but he is currently exploiting the tabloid hunger for royal titbits in the US to make his living. It's what you do if you are one of 'em. So whether we should have watched Oprah or not...dunno really. It wasn't quite the Daily Mail, was it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 21 - 08:34 PM

I did view the link, pfr, and it was painfully relevant. Ash and Owen Jones are my current favourite lefties, but don't eloquent lefties talk a lot... The US and Israel are umbilically connected for sure. Emasculation of the press is just one upshot of that and the roles of those lobby groups is to make sure the cord is never cut. I suppose that massive numbers of Americans either don't care about Palestine or are simply not up to speed (political ignorance is so useful for the right...) Thing is, in general elections not one person voted for AIPAC or a big corporation or the gun lobby, but they, not the elected politicians, are the ones who decide what happens in the country in large part. Democracy can go hang...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 21 - 08:55 PM

The left is dead or dying in the UK and similarities to US politics is more distant than ever. But the US footprint is growing in Premiere league ownership.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 May 21 - 09:52 PM

you left out the question mark..

" The left is dead or dying in the UK ? "...???

..at least I'd hope you intended that as a question..


Because frankly we are sick of American propagandists swamping social media
with their overwhelming evangelical determination to permanently vanquish the left in our UK politics...


American billionaires and their army of subsidised internet influencers/indoctrinators,
are a diabolical force for spreading the contagion of alt right US imperialism...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 May 21 - 07:50 AM

The left is neither dead nor dying. Concerted efforts to demonise and ridicule us are not the way to see us off. The media find it easy to make us unpopular, and the outlets for our voices to be properly heard are few. But we won't be going away any time soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 25 May 21 - 03:20 PM

agree. there may not be so many prepared to identify with the current labour party or be union members. i don't know if the term 'left' means much anymore, but many progressive and diverse groups are lively and committed - particularly in respect of the environment. from biden in the usa to greens in germany (and here) parliamentary democracy is making a bit of a comeback. although the daily news is grim and the tories evil and ridiculous - i feel they have peaked and a slow wave of decency and progress may well be on the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 May 21 - 05:19 PM

Early days of hope. pete...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 May 21 - 06:16 PM

So now we have a report on what we all knew, that the Tory party is riddled with Islamophobia (its leader being the most egregious offender). Even Baroness Warsi thinks that the report has been a whitewash. So I wonder whether the Tory backbenchers will do a Jeremy on Johnson and hound him, if not out, into a disastrous election loss...

Or will pigs fly...