BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 08:35 PM

What facebook? Facebook is gone. Its history now. They're changing their name to Meta.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 03:10 AM

I remember the nuclear waste reprocessing plant at Winscale changing its name to Sellafield when its reputation became toxic. I believe they also considered changing radiation to magic moonbeams.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 01:46 PM

Levelling up? Doesn't seem to be according to Dick Newby who is leader of the LibDems in the Lords and was treasury spokesman during the coalition. May be a bit biased but far from left wing and should know what he is talking about.

Budget will mean a fall in real income and growing inequality

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 03:09 PM

Meta...???

Bit like a PR rebranding of "Shit" into "Sugar"...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 09:51 AM

i received this by e mail.A brave whistleblower just leaked secret Facebook documents... and they're shocking!

They show that Facebook knew. They knew that human traffickers used Facebook to lure women into sexual slavery. They knew that it was being used to incite violence against minorities. They knew that divisive lies and extremism were being promoted to millions all over the world. And they knew its systems were removing less than 1% of violent content.

Facebook knew all this. And yet, the whistleblower said, it has put “profits before people”.

That has to change -- and now's our chance. With in-depth investigations and bombshell media reports, Avaaz has helped force Facebook's shame onto the agenda of legislators across the world.

Now we're in the room with lawmakers from Europe to Brazil, fighting tooth and nail to win laws that protect people and democracy from social media's corrosive impact.

But we're up against some of the biggest companies in the world, unleashing their lobbying firepower to fight strong regulation and protect their profits. Last year alone Big Tech spent more than 100 million dollars on lobbying!

But this time, we can win. If we raise enough now, we can fund researchers to uncover more damning evidence, go head to head with the corporate lobbyists, bring testimonies of those harmed by social media to lawmakers, and show up at every key decision with hard-hitting ads and stunts demanding action.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 10:02 AM

Facebook is too big to fix.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 10:02 AM

Not exactly ‘news’, Sandman. It was reported in the Washington Post on 22/10/2021 - nine days ago…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/10/22/facebook-new-whistleblower-complaint/

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 10:05 AM

And Steve makes a good point. Who, and in which country(ies), are the ones who will be willing to take steps to ‘fix’ FaceBook, bearing in mind the quantity of excrement it holds ready to heap on the heads of anyone who goes up against it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 10:33 AM

I do use it but limit both my audience and what I read but I am no Facebook apologist.

I note however that the above text is lifted directly from the Avaaz Website and is the message to convince people to 'chip in'.

We should understand that all Social Media sites, including this one, play their part in providing mis-information and a place for criminals and hate mongers to ply their trade. This is a world wide phenomenon and deserves a thread of its own rather than be placed in with the kaleidoscope of UK Politics!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 11:15 AM

This site is closely moderated, and the mods do a pretty decent job of removing promptly any offensive, insulting or threatening material. By so doing promptly (a key attribute), it encourages us to know that trying to post stuff like that isn't worth the effort. Jeremy Keith polices his Session website closely and assiduously, and members know that it simply isn't worth trying to post nonsense. Dick Gaughan's former website, the same (good old Molly...) You call these social media sites, Dave, and I suppose they are in a way, though I don't generally class them as such meself. Compared to behemoths such as Facebook they are tiny. In a way, that makes my point about too big to fix. BWM highlights one aspect of that, and another aspect is that smaller is more beautiful and more fixable. It would take an army of moderators to police Facebook as effectively as here. Two points about that: first, Facebook can well afford an army of moderators, but has always preferred profit over people, and why spend your profits if you can get away with not doing? Second, an army of moderators keeping Facebook clean and safe would have the far-right and the conspiracy theorists, and all the other multifarious do-badders who use it, deprived of the mass audience they so easily exploit, ranting and raving about the denial of democracy and free speech. It's gone to far to fix, it's too big to fix and it won't be fixed. Maybe a mass revolt and a rapid bleeding away of its members voting with their feet will be the only way. There again, I think I may be in cloud-cuckoo land...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 11:18 AM

TOO far to fix (in case Mrrzy's reading...)   ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 11:56 AM

Backwoodsman....Mudcat Rules You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative or snooty.
may i remind you not everyone has access to the washington post

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 12:18 PM

The mòds here do indeed do a decent job, Steve, but there are still a lot of insults and hate posts left on even after some of the perpetrators were eventually removed. There is also a lot of misinformation that goes unchecked.

I'm not complaining, just pointing out that it does happen on sites other than Faceache. Yes, it should be sorted there and the sooner they do it the better. Sadly though, a lot of the baby will go down the plughole with the bathwater in the process and some of the censorship will inadvertently damage the good bits too.

I still say that a discussion on a global phenomenon should be outside the UK politics thread as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 12:54 PM

”Backwoodsman....Mudcat Rules You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative or snooty.
may i remind you not everyone has access to the washington post”

Coming, as it does, from someone whose postings frequently and copiously display all of those unpleasant attributes, I’m not interested in that kind of nonsense. You are absolutely the last person who should be preaching ‘Mudcat Rules’ at anyone here -Physician Heal Thyself

There was nothing offensive in my post, it was a perfectly straightforward piece of information delivered in a perfectly civil manner. I suggest you desist from your constant trolling and flaming, it’s childish and it makes you look foolish..

Regarding your comment about TWP, you have the same access to TWP as I do - it’s easily available by simply using your internet browser and doing a search - exactly as I did. But the Facebook whistleblower has been widely discussed in the press and on TV and radio - TWP is simply one source of information, but there are plenty of others.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 21 - 12:56 PM

And I agree with Dave - Facebook and it’s problems are a far wider issue than British politics, and really should be discussed in a separate thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 01 Nov 21 - 01:16 PM

Full Fact on sewage in the rivers and sea. Bit more murky than we all might have thought.

Murky claims about sewage bill fact checked

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 Nov 21 - 07:09 AM

So, has anyone been watching

Blair & Brown: The New Labour Revolution

I did post about it on the 18.10.21

I found it an interesting look at the problems of governing the country. "Events overtaking the agenda" as one of the contibutors said last night.

Well worth a watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Nov 21 - 08:14 AM

Not seen it but it is on the list!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Nov 21 - 11:29 AM

I was potentially interested until I found out it was a 5 episode series..

Five long bloody hours...!!!

Life's too short...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 Nov 21 - 01:22 PM

No 10 set to break promise of 6,000 more GPs in England, Sajid Javid says

Health secretary admits target unlikely to be met owing to numbers of doctors retiring early

The Guardian

"No 10 is likely to break its promise to increase the number of GPs in England by 6,000, Sajid Javid has admitted. The health secretary disclosed that the figure, a key promise in the Conservatives’ general election manifesto in 2019, was unlikely to be met given the number of GPs retiring early.

He made the disclosure while giving evidence to the cross-party Commons health select committee. Asked by the committee chair, Jeremy Hunt, if the government was on track to implement the 6,000 pledge, Javid relied: “No. I’m not going to pretend that we’re on track when we are clearly not.”"

We tend to get more truthful responses during these committee meetings. More sensible and adult behaviour than is normally the case in the house of commons 'debates'.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Nov 21 - 06:26 PM

They've got to find 6000 people who want to be GPs first, same as any government.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 04:00 AM

It would help considerably if they treated the NHS as a national treasure rather than trying to break it up to line their pockets. Right from the outset the Tories were opposed to the NHS. As I said earlier they are the party of profit over people. Until they stop selling it off, they will never find enough people. You're an accountant, Bonzo, would you invest in an organisation that is being asset stripped by its owners?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 05:03 AM

The NHS is a good idea, if your population is in good health it is likely to work better, one of the benificiaries of the NHS has been the Pharmaceutical industry.
if only the very wealthy are in good health, the country is not going to get the best use of the best brains, has the run down of the NHS over the years contributed to poor political decision making, eg Brexit

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 05:36 AM

Nigel Farage’s Brexit party saved Labour seats in 2019 election, analysis finds

Experts say while party failed to win a seat they may have denied Boris Johnson a landslide by splitting vote

The Guardian

"Nigel Farage’s Brexit party may have saved up to 25 Labour seats in the Midlands and the north at the 2019 general election, denying Boris Johnson a landslide majority of 130, according to new analysis.

Farage’s party failed to win a single seat in December 2019 as Boris Johnson sought to hammer home the message that the Conservatives would “get Brexit done”.

But elections experts John Curtice, Stephen Fisher and Patrick English say that by attracting Leave-supporting former Labour voters who might otherwise have backed the Conservatives, Farage may have significantly cut the scale of Labour’s defeat.

By modelling the behaviour of Labour Leavers elsewhere, they suggest that in the absence of a Brexit party candidate, 70% would likely have turned to the Tories and 30% stuck with Labour. Meanwhile, Conservative voters who switched to Farage’s party were likely to have voted for Johnson."

Things might have been worse. Unfortunately Labour are unlikely to have Farage's help in the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 05:54 AM

Well.. the tories used to cherry pick the most naturally intelligent working class kids for Grammar School gentrification..

Then educate, and indoctrinate them to aspire to establishment middle class career and lifestyle.

So they become useful fodder for the middle management jobs public school kids were too superior and important to waste their lives doing..

But more importantly, to divert brighter working class kids from becoming evil class warfare commie revolutionaries...

Nowadays tories seem to have dropped that strategy, and just give universally shite education to all pleb kids..

The tories must have developed new cheaper methods for containing and preventing mass working class radical politicisation...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 06:08 AM

Just read that a pharmacy in my old home town of Swinton is doing private (read paid) consultations for minor ailments. I don't know if this is widespread or not but as they are supposed to do these things on the NHS for free, I am gobsmacked! It is sickening. Well, it would be if people could afford to be sick...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 08:51 AM

Meat carcasses sent to EU for butchering amid UK worker shortage

Great Britain’s beef producers export to Ireland before reimporting, while pork processors consider the Netherlands

The Guardian

"Meat processors in Great Britain are having to export carcasses destined for domestic consumption to the EU for butchering because of the shortage of skilled workers in the industry.

Beef producers are exporting carcasses to Ireland for butchering and packing, says Nick Allen, the chief executive of the British Meat Processors Association, before the products are brought back to Great Britain to be sold in supermarkets.

Meanwhile, pork processors are looking into shipping pig carcasses to the Netherlands to be butchered, as first reported by the Financial Times. This is despite the government announcing a post-Brexit immigration policy U-turn last month that would temporarily extend the seasonal worker visa scheme to include pork butchers.

The move was aimed at preventing a widespread cull of healthy pigs on farms because of a lack of capacity at abattoirs and meat processing plants. However, 10,000 of the animals have been killed so far, according to the National Pig Association, and the cull continues."

So hopefully i should be getting my pigs in blankets this christmas, even if they are likely to be more expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 10:32 AM

nigel farges brexit party made an electoral pact with the conservatives, to not stand in certain seats, but to stand in others where they took votes from the labour party Thurrock was an example.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 02:51 PM

The Labour party has had a data breach. Now, bear in mind that I resigned from the party when Sir Keith sacked Becky Long-Bailey back in June last year you may be surprised to hear that I just got this.

Wednesday 3 November 2021
Dear Sir / Madam,
We are writing to you to let you know that a third party that handles data on our behalf has been subject to a cyber incident. While the Party’s investigation remains ongoing, we wanted to make you aware of this incident and the measures which we have taken in response. We have also provided details of precautionary steps you may consider taking to help protect yourself.
What happened?
On 29 October 2021, we were informed of the cyber incident by the third party. The third party told us that the incident had resulted in a significant quantity of Party data being rendered inaccessible on their systems. As soon as the Party was notified of these matters, we engaged third-party experts and the incident was immediately reported to the relevant authorities, including the National Crime Agency (NCA), National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) and the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO). The Party continues to work closely with each of these authorities. The Party is also working closely and on an urgent basis with the third party in order to understand the full nature, circumstances and impact of the incident. The Party’s own data systems were unaffected by this incident.
What information was involved?
We understand that the data includes information provided to the Party by its members, registered and affiliated supporters, and other individuals who have provided their information to the Party. The full scope and impact of the incident is being urgently investigated.


Shower of shits. Tory mismanagement seems to rubbing off on everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 03:18 PM

They're all bound to blame it on Corbyn stealing data for his commie handlers in the Kremlin...


.. it's not as if Israel or America would do anything as dodgy as this...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 03:39 PM

A lot third parties in that notification. Reads like a marx brothers routine.

A sign of the times. So many fuckers trying to steal data nowadays. Sign of the times.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 04:25 PM

DAVE I received the same E MAIL

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 04:54 PM

Me too. Obviously.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 03:31 AM

My point being that I have not been a party member for over a year. Why are they holding on to my details? Maybe I should sue :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 04:17 AM

yes, i left the party sometime ago, too

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 09:02 AM

Is there evidence that the cyber attack was not orchestrated by tory backers to distract attention away from the tory party letting Owen Patterson of the hook for corruption.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 09:19 AM

Sigh...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 09:26 AM

Owen Paterson: Government U-turn over MPs' conduct plan

Yet another example of the shambolic behaviour of this government.

Who is giving them advice?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 10:41 AM

Rain Dog - Satan...???

.. the tories must surely by now have made enough human sacrifices to please their master...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 10:53 AM

Patterson has now resigned. Showed the Tories up for the corrupt crew they are though.

Boris is at it again too. What a knob!


We now have a prime minister who thinks melting ice caps provide ‘opportunities’ – just let that sink in

Where to start on that one...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 11:57 AM

Water on the brain, maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 10:50 AM

There has been talk of an independent standing as the sole opposition in Paterson's bye-election, but Labour has said they will not stand aside. Probably whoever the Tories pick will win anyway, but I think that approach ensures it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 11:32 AM

When Martin Bell stood against Neil Hamilton it was in a general election, not a by-election. The turnout will likely be low, favouring the Tory. In addition, Bell stood against the sleazeball Hamilton. In this by-election, Paterson isn't standing. Nice idea, but overwhelmingly likely to be a damp squib and another chance for Johnson to do his sword of truth bit. So I'm with Labour on this. Just an ordinary by-election will do. The Tories will almost certainly win anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 11:39 AM

I think we both agree the Tories will probably win just because of how safe a seat it is.

But let's imagine Labour won. The effect on Johnson's majority is marginal. There have been no votes this session where a change of one 'yes' to a 'no' would have mattered.

I would say it is more beneficial to Labour and the country as a whole to use the bye-election to keep the focus on sleaze for the period of the bye-election, or at least to revive it the day or two before.

All other candidates will have to explain Labour policy, or Lib Dem, or Green or whatever. An anti-sleaze candidate can keep the focus on that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 01:14 PM

Jess Phillip's speech on the Standards debate is well worth hearing, though I suspect it not be one of the parts highlighted in the press. If you get a change to hear it, I would seek it out (around 18:05 in a recording.)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 03:33 AM

So the UK haS a shortage of healthcare workers, SO THE GOVERNMENT SAYS ALL WORKERS MUST BE VACCINATED BY APRIL FIRST.Is this the smartest way to overcome a shortage of workers, would it not be more clever to increase the pay of vaccinated health workers.
i understood there were 135 thousand unvaccinated health care workers, if they all leave or if the majority leave, there will be an increased shortage of health workers, the situation is further exacerbated by the uk no longer being in europe, and preasumably not able to draw on vqccinated european potential workers

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 03:48 AM

who knows, the next idea could be to retrain them as lorry drivers, or perhaps like norman tebbits dad ,they will have to get on a bike

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 03:54 AM

NORTHERN IRELAND,might find itself in a position where uk health workers leave to work in rep of ireland

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 07:03 AM

NORTHERN IRELAND,might find itself in a position where uk health workers leave to work in Rep of Ireland Or Wales or Scotland which have not adopted this rule.

Although it might result in a reduction in the number of health workers I agree (in principle) that health workers should be vaccinated.
At the moment Covid is more likely to lead to hospitalisation, and possibly death, for the unvaccinated. I doubt that health workers would be unaffected by this, meaning that their possibility of death if they catch Covid is greater than for vaccinated health workers. This would also reduce the health service work force, but would increase the possibility of having passed on the disease to colleagues and patients.

We hear a lot of campaigners saying that this infringes their rights, and they should be allowed to make their own choice. Fine, but that choice is whether to work in the health service, or to avoid having the vaccine. Except for those with medical exemptions there is no reason to have unvaccinated people working in the front-line health service.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Nov 21 - 07:12 AM

.. OR..

Set up separate isolated wards where only unvaccinated health workers care for unvaccinated covid patients..

Researchers can observe how long they all last, triumphantly festering in the mutual victory
of their uninfringed rights...