BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 02 Aug 22 - 11:27 AM

NOT "quite" in anything like the American usage.

It will be interesting to consider how a mature politician might respond to the rudeness of someone holding high political office in another country. Eamonn de Valera's response to Churchill's characteristic growling after the end of the 1939-45 War, at least in Europe, has been described as "magisterial". The Long Fellow was An Taoiseach at the time, and would be "Chief" for far longer than Sir Winston.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Aug 22 - 12:57 PM

Bonzo, How is she going to improve the way Animals are treated, or are you going to tell me, that is not her brief, That her brief is to look after very rich humans, come on answer, and none of your weasel words or your doggerel, and spare us your verbal dog shit and insults. tell us how truss the financial wizard is going to make ordinary peoples lives better, when she fecks the economy up
boris will try to make a come back

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Aug 22 - 03:39 PM

Read for yourself, I'm off to see the England girls thrash the krauts again!!

By the way, Liz Truss has announced she will scrap diversity and inclusion jobs in Whitehall, making sure civil service officials actually start to focus on delivery - excellent news!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Aug 22 - 08:04 AM

Bonzo this reminds me of Mussolini, and how did he end?
hanging upside down

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Aug 22 - 04:57 PM

I'm please to see that good progress is being made with HS2.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Aug 22 - 04:41 AM

he number of billionaires in the UK nearly doubled between 2010 and 2019 from 29 to 54. Over the following 2 years it has more than tripled to 177. Now the Bank of England has the audacity to tell wage earners, pensioners and benefit recipients to suffer the consequences of what is likely to be the longest ever recession, escalating escalation, and rising interests rates in order to protect the wealthy from even longer term impacts. Also note that the number of millionaires has gone up over the last 11 years from 506,000 to 2,490,952.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Aug 22 - 05:46 AM

I'm guessing that your point is not that millionaires/billionaires are not keeping it all to themselves, and that there is still something to be gained from being aspirational.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Aug 22 - 07:27 AM

I would be interested to see how you envisage the UK GDP being increased 24,000 times over so that the entire UK population could fulfill their aspirations to be billionaires.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Aug 22 - 06:39 PM

I would be interested to see how you envisage the UK GDP being increased 24,000 times over so that the entire UK population could fulfill their aspirations to be billionaires.
That is not what I said, So I will ignore calls to explain something which makes no sense.
Maybe you would wish to explain your own non-sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Aug 22 - 03:41 AM

You are the one who tried to justify exponential increase in wealth in the face of a crisis where by this winter millions of working people, people on STATE pensions, people with disabilities or long-term limiting conditions, people who are in full time employments but still relay on UC to pay their rent and childcare, are unable to find work etc. are likely to have to make choices of whether to heat there homes or feed their families, be able to run a freezer or rely on expensive takeaways, whether to wash in hot or cold water, etc as being 'aspirational.

How you can consider aspiring to continue to accumulate more wealth on top of more than one person could possibly spend many lifetime over is acceptable goes beyond the thinking of any reasonable person.

It is typical tory mindset that poverty is caused by lack of aspiration at a time where wealth is being accumulated at the costs of more and more extreme poverty. Johnson wanted UK to be a third country... we are rapidly descending into becoming like a third word country. The only reason we don't have favelas in the UK is the NIMBYs would not tolerate them.

Sure it would be great if the entire UK population could aspire to be millionaires or billionaires, but I do not see how this could be sustained without hyperinflation. Also to achieve these noble suspirations GDP would have to increase to accommodate it as 68 million billionaires would mean that our GDP would be 68 million billion otherwise their wouldn't be 68 million billionaires, and that is 24,000 times the current UK GDP. Not a flight of fancy - just simple arithmetic.

Anyway, looking forward to your usual picking up on some pedantic issue and avoiding the substantive issue, let me guess - hot vs cold water?????

BY the way, and you may prefer to focus on this point instead - fuel poverty is defined as more than 10% of household income being spent on gas/electricity. This winter it is set to reach 37% of the State Pension.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 22 - 03:55 AM

a million people spends a pound quicker than one person spends a million, from the point of view of the consumer society, it is necessary for people to have money to spend or consume, it is not an efficient way to run the consumer society, if people do not have money to consume.However .
I agree with SPB

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 22 - 06:30 AM

The wealthy get what they want already, so tax cuts won't get them spending more. The poor can be given tax cuts 'til they come out of their ears, but every penny will be used to pay their energy bills. If it takes Ken Clarke of all people to say that he doesn't need any more bloody handouts or tax cuts, it shows how the Tories don't understand targeting.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Aug 22 - 04:46 PM

The tax cuts will pay a small proportion of the energy bill increases. Increasing state pension to 50% of average wage, or to the average defined benefit pension would help.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Aug 22 - 05:52 PM

"BY the way, and you may prefer to focus on this point instead - fuel poverty is defined as more than 10% of household income being spent on gas/electricity. This winter it is set to reach 37% of the State Pension."

I work 4 days a week at 75, other pensioners should do the same if they need more money.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 22 - 06:50 PM

Well, Bonzo, I'm a well-educated chap, well retired, ex-teacher and all that. I'm 71 and clicking my heels, with a bloody bad back. So tell me how I can begin to make a living...
(I don't need to, actually, but do tell...)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Aug 22 - 07:22 PM

So, Bonzo, are you going to put your money where your mouth is? How many over 75s will you be giving £36,000 a year jobs to - after tax they would still technically be in fuel poverty. or are you expecting them to do back-breaking work in the fields of standing on their feet for 7 hours a day in amazon warehouses? They paid for your school education - and if you went into further education in the days before student loans, paid your tuition fees. So now if you are saying people who worked hard for 55 years or more should carry on working if they don't want to die of hypothermia?   Nice chap, aren't you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Aug 22 - 02:48 AM

Just a typical Tory, SPB. Not a care for anyone but themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 22 - 03:53 AM

Bonzo reminds me of Tebbitt, not all other pensioners can get on their bike and show rich people how to legally avoid paying tax,
of course if there were lots of them doing bonzos job, supply and demand might affect bonzo, he would have to be competitive and work harder more hours for less money,, a bit like william brown of the song

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Aug 22 - 03:55 AM

bonzo does not appear to understand capitalist economics, all thos pensioners working 4 days a week doing his job could mean only one day work a week for bonzo

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 12:13 PM

Cutting VAT tax on fuel, A suggestion from a labour spokesperson

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Aug 22 - 06:52 PM

"Cutting VAT tax on fuel"?
Is that on 'energy' Gas & electric? Or just on motor fuel (which will only really help those who can afford to run their own vehicles)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 03:59 AM

Interesting "Daily Mail" lead article (for a change!), as shown on the BBC review of front pages of the papers:


Police checks on foreign nationals from 44 countries have been scrapped, the Daily Mail reports in its lead story. Tens of thousands of people, including those from Russia, China and Iran, no longer have to give their details to the police when moving to the UK, after the government "abruptly" scrapped the checks at the end of last week "with no public announcement", the paper says.


I suppose taking control of your borders' does include deciding not to check people, though that may not be what Leave voters expected.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 04:42 AM

"But a Home Office spokesman said last night: ‘These anonymous claims are wrong and misguided.

‘This scheme dates back to the First World War and is no longer effective because data provided to the police is already collected by the Home Office when individuals apply to enter the UK.

‘The police agree with government and recommended that the scheme should be abolished so that officers can focus on policing and solving crimes. 

'It is not used by the police to monitor individuals and to claim otherwise is wrong.’"

Daily Mail - A lot of our readers will not like this

I agree that a lot of their readers will not be happy about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Aug 22 - 10:37 AM

Well, wha’d’ya know? The Daily Fail appears to have decided to divert its venom away from brown- and black-skinned people risking their lives fleeing rape, torture, and murder in war-zones, and towards the RAF’s Aerobatics Display Team.

More diversion tactics methinks, trying to draw their readers’ attention away from the failings of the government during this time of astronomical rises in energy and fuel costs, deliberate provocation of Trade Unions, and spiralling inflation.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Aug 22 - 12:25 PM

I saw a post by one of my favourite authors today. It is an old post from 2015 but still apt for the Daily Heil

"I was reading a book (about interjections, oddly enough) yesterday which included the phrase “In these days of political correctness…” talking about no longer making jokes that denigrated people for their culture or for the colour of their skin. And I thought, “That’s not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Aug 22 - 04:24 PM

So you think that because someone with non-white skin carried out an attack on an author it is justification for white racist s**m to ridicule other people on the basis of their skin colour, first langauge, faith and culture?

Ok then, here's a joke. Did you hear about the racist accountants from one.

Q. How many accountants from Croydon does it take to change a light bulb? A. They wouldn't do something that they consider so menial themselves, and would get someone they consider inferior to themselves to do it whole taking the piss out of their cultural differences.

If that doesn't explain to you why your response to DtG is racist, nothing will.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 22 - 07:38 PM

So Starmer spent months coming up with his plan for solving the looming fuel poverty crisis. Freeze the price cap. A Labour leader specifying measures that give money to the rich that they don't need. It's pathetic, and the tabloids (once again) must be rubbing their hands with glee.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Aug 22 - 02:25 AM

‘The Upward Flow of Wealth’ - the foundation on which Capitalism is built. ‘Twas ever thus, and ever will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Aug 22 - 02:54 AM

Ah Dave, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the need for respect and kindness, consideration and tolerance, rather than that awful concept of 'political correctness'. It isn't 'political' at all to consider other people's feelings. It's a basic character trait which we should all try to cultivate.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Aug 22 - 08:59 AM

Whenever I hear the phrase under discussion, it always reminds me of a line on The Now Show, when Suggs had delivered a lecture or something on feminism:

    It's Madness gone politically correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 08:30 AM

"all thos pensioners working 4 days a week doing his job could mean only one day work a week for bonzo"

They wouldn't know where to start.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Aug 22 - 04:44 PM

That's a bit disingenuous projecting the intellect and ability of pensioners down to your level.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 11:09 AM

Just listening to James O'Brien and he made very valid comments on Liz Truss who seems likely to be our next Prime Minister

In the space of 12 hours she announced regional pay for civil servants, changed her mind about it and then denied it ever happened. O'Brien's summary was that she was 'useless, cowardly and dishonest'. It is quite true. The policy is the product of ineptitude and populism to Daily Heil readers. To then not have the courage to back up her statement is nothing but cowardly. Then to deny it ever happened is in the realms of Johnsonesque dishonesty. Are we just getting a female Bozo? He went on to make a much more far reaching comment - it seems it no longer matters. The Daily Heil is proclaiming that Johnsons reign did not end in failure. It is supporting Truss and cares not that she is verifiably useless. Do we, the people of the UK, really care so little that we let our politicians get away with this sort of skulduggery? How have we got to demonising an honest, if somewhat inept, politician like Corbyn while actively supporting the liars, cheats and rogues that are currently running this shitshow?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 11:37 AM

The world is on fire and it's too late to fix it. We can't grow food because it never rains. Inflation is turning us into a third-world country (and God knows what will happen to current third world countries...). Half of us will freeze close to death this coming winter. The food banks are running out of food. We can't get to see a doctor or dentist any more, and whatever you do don't come to need an A&E department, let alone an ambulance. Nobody's been running the country for weeks.



But never mind. Grant Shapps wants to put number plates on pushbikes...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 12:09 PM

Number plates on bikes eh ...................... I might find myself in support of this. The number of times I been forced off the pavement or had to brake suddenly in my car by cyclists who claim everything is MY fault is growing day by day. Countless times I have seen them go through red lights, ride the wrong way up one way streets, be downright offensive to other roads users, could come to an end if we could report the buggers!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 12:45 PM

OK, so let's put number plates on all dogs so that we can report 'em when they shit or when they piss up lamp posts.

In other words, it ain't going to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 12:59 PM

While riding my bike I have been abused once by a driver (white van man), once by a pedestrian while on the canal towpath and for no apparent reason. And 3 times by other cyclists! I can only conclude that cyclists are 3 times more likely to be arseholes :-D

Of course abuse does not kill you and the amount of times I have been almost wiped out by idiot drivers far exceeds any of those but I guess this has nowt to do with UK politics. Unless do not Truss or Sunak you than me try to run me over and then deny it!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 01:15 PM

...and it's still just a distraction tactic, Raggy. Populist too. You raise valid points about idiot cyclists but just ask yourself how many people have been killed by cyclists compared to those killed by motorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 02:05 PM

Add to that licencing e scooters and/or local authority officers getting off their backsides and trimming back overgrown hedges so that pedestrians can see oncoming scooter riders on the pavement. Came close to being run down by one today. Or at least the council or the department of transport could put up a warning sign by the edge of the hedge warning pedestrians of oncoming scooter riders illegally using the pavement.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 02:36 PM

The only country in the world currently requiring number plates on cycles is North Korea. Maybe that gives us an indication of the direction of this government!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 03:12 PM

A suggestion on how to conserve water in the future. No planning permission is given unless there are rainwater tanks built at the top of a building to collect water to be used to help flush toilets.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Aug 22 - 05:20 PM

It may be more advantageous to build collection tanks at the bottom of buildings to collect rainwater from the drainpipes .............

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 02:48 AM

ok ,but collection oand storage of rainwater plus building of reservoirs needs to be given priority.
Raggytash here in rural ireland i see a number old farm houses with tanks built on sides of walls to collect rainwater

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 03:07 AM

Water should never be in short supply as it makes up 80% of the earth's surface and is never actually used up. Just recycled. It is of course mainly in the wrong state and often in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am sure science will find the right solution but while politicians have control over it we are all doomed!

On reflection, money is the same. There is plenty of it, just in the wrong hands :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 03:12 AM

Using KEYNSIAN ECONOMICS , workers employed on infra structure would boost the economy, infrastructure could include fitting tanks to all council owned properties, to save on toilet flushing and wastage reusing of grey water, and building of reservoirs

The last major public water supply reservoir to be constructed in the UK for water supply purposes was Carsington in 1991, and although a number of water supply reservoirs have been proposed since the 1960's very few have made it to completion.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 03:56 AM

You could also stimulate economic growth with a fairer distribution of wealth but sadly that isn't going to happen either

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 04:04 AM

It would certainly make sense to require all new houses to have a dual water supply - fresh for drinking and grey for most other purposes. Some countries run a dual water supply system for this reason, but it would be impractical to fit that to old houses. New houses, though, that's perfectly possible. Collected rainwater, recycled water from showers etc, why not?

I have referred to an arena I saw in Delos, I believe, built by the Ancient Greeks. While it looked at first sight like any other stone-built arena there were slight slopes on the seats, a slight incline on the rows of seats and so on, so that when it did rain it was a giant funnel, routing all the water to underground storage.

When people actually perceive water as important, much can be done. But the most detrimental is to set up companies whose main remit is deliver profits to shareholders where water is just the medium to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 04:05 AM

The last major public water supply reservoir to be constructed in the UK for water supply purposes was Carsington in 1991, and although a number of water supply reservoirs have been proposed since the 1960's very few have made it to completion.

I think a lot of people would be happy for new reservoirs to be built, providing it's someone else's house that gets submerged and not theirs.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 04:36 AM

an intersting programme yesterday on radio 4
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001b45sThe Briefing Room
Fighting drought
Released On: 18 Aug 2022
Available for over a year

Despite recent heavy rainfall, much of England is experiencing drought conditions. Both rivers and reservoirs are running low, and the water companies have told millions to stop using their hosepipes.

Scientists warn that the current difficulties are only a glimpse of the much tougher challenges the UK will face in the future because of climate change. They estimate that there's a one-in-four chance of a drought which is so severe that drinking water has to be restricted.

Joining David Aaronovitch in The Briefing Room are:
Sir John Armitt, Chairman of the UK's National Infrastructure Commission
Dr Heather Smith, Senior Lecturer in Water Governance at Cranfield University
Jean Spencer, Director of The Water Industry Forum
Sir Dieter Helm, Professor of Economic Policy at Oxford University

Producers: Bob Howard, Kirsteen Knight and Simon Watts. Editor: Richard Vadon. Studio Manager: Graham Puddifoot. Production co-ordinators: Siobhan Reed & Helena Warwick-Cross


Doug CHADWICK, Building new reservoirs is one of several options, another option is saline treatment plants. and repairing infrastructure IT BECOMES A QUESTION OF NATIONAL INTERST over personal.
Nationalistaion of water companies is another option.
All the time the water companies are privately owned, they have to be profitable, that means only a certain amount of money can be spent on repairing infra structure, or and people have to pay more in charges. This is at a time when inflation is rising, increasing water charges would result in a stagnation of the economy, as peoples spending power is reduced, so imo better to fix leaks and improve water infrastructure, and try keynsian econmics to boost the economy

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 04:47 AM

Will Genomics boost the British economy in the future?