BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 02:16 AM

”I'm bloody useless at doing links”

Steve, it’s very simple and straightforward if you use this Mudcat Linkifier. You just copy and paste the address of the piece you’re linking to in the first (URL) box, type a name for it in the second (Text) box, click on ‘Make Link’, click on ‘Test’ to check it works OK then, if it works OK, click on ‘Copy to clipboard’. Then go to the ‘Reply To Thread’ box in the thread, right click where you want to put the Link, and click on ‘Paste’.

Bingo! You’re done…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 04:10 AM

Doesn't always work in at least 2 situations though. If the link is too long it truncates it and if it is an internal link to Mudcat the URL has
Mudcat twice. Fixable but messy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Monique
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 05:49 AM

Sorry to interfere but here it is. I first found the "href" thing hard to remember but now I've typed it so many times that I keep the picture in my mind. You English speakers can remember something like "Happy Rainy Easter Friday -or whatever suits you best. Not really rainy this year for us, it's around 25°C and supposed to be 28 later in the afternoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 07:51 AM

Thank you Monique. A ray of sunshine in a bleak discussion :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 09:48 AM

"Horny rhinos engender fear."

21.5C here, easily the warmest day of the year so far. The sun blazeth.

I could occasionally do a link, though I'm not a big fan. I'd rather pick bits out to quote, tell you where I saw it then discuss. I won't read any link from anyone that isn't backed up in some way by the post's author. In a discussion I want to know what we all think.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 10:31 AM

Dave and Dick and others - it actually isn't okay to copy and paste the content from other sites. That is a copyright infringement unless it has stated otherwise that it is free to share.

Fair use means short quotes, then post the URL. Those of you using Windows computers can go into your Windows or Office tools and add Sticky Notes to your desktop. I keep one in the corner of my screen that has a few pieces of code I use in different tasks (on various web sites where I work) and just select and copy it to paste into the form I'm working on. Create the empty shell of a URL and place it there so you can copy it when needed. Then add in the Mudcat info in the appropriate place once you've pasted it. I long since memorized the code for a standard URL,

---

but that is how one of the mudelves saves a few keystrokes. We make a few exceptions, usually to do with obituaries, and some of the content Joe posts to do with music scholarship.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 12:03 PM

What a load of bollocks

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 12:38 PM

”Doesn't always work in at least 2 situations though. If the link is too long it truncates it and if it is an internal link to Mudcat the URL has
Mudcat twice. Fixable but messy.”

Dave, the Linkifier I linked to is not the standard one from Mudcat, it’s a special version created by one of our members (I forget precisely whom!) and it automatically takes care of the ‘long link’ issue. I have it saved as a Favourite in my Browser on my PC and iPad, and I always use it now because it’s more user-friendly than the built-in Mudcat Blickifier.

I haven’t tried using it make an internal to link to Mudcat, so I can’t comment on that issue.

I still believe it’s no more complicated than the lazy method of copy/pasting complete pieces, or posting non-functioning links as used by others.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 12:41 PM

And, of course, posting a functioning link (‘Blicky’) is far more economical with bandwidth and server-space than clogging threads up with enormous, un-formatted copy/pastes that no-one in their right mind is going to be dragged into wading through.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 12:43 PM

Perhaps Maggie can recall whose contribution is the Linkifier I linked to?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 02:40 PM

Ah, Ok. Thanks, John. I just use the standard one as I have learned to get round the issues so far :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 04:52 PM

I just thought that, as it’s a more user-friendly hack than the built-in Blickifier for creating properly functioning links, Steve might get on with it better - it’s certainly no more complicated than a block copy/paste from an outside source into a post and, for the reasons stated, it produces a much more satisfactory result.

IMHO, of course - OMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 07:53 PM

I can just tell you which Guardian article I got my quote, or opinion, or whatever, from. Up to you whether you look at the whole thing. I'll always tell you why I've posted it. I don't like links much because they all too often exonerate the poster from properly dissecting and discussing the content. I repeat: if a link is posted without support from the poster, I will not read it. This is a forum for discussing what we all think, not what some remote journalist thinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 04:47 AM

If breaking covid rules is a non issue (as the tory gutter press suggest), then why, when Johnson was standing on his podium making announcements about rules we have to follow did he not announce to the public that he had no intention of following the law himself, or at least say that he was still attending social gatherings but that did not matter because we are inferior species to the tory party master race and that it is our duty to obey our betters and not question what they do or don't do?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 05:27 AM

Peter Hennessy, a crossbench peer and professor of history, was speaking about this on Broadcasting House on Radio 4 this morning. He sees partygate and the Johnson lies surrounding it as a fundamental threat to our constitution. Not for the first time, Johnson plays fast and loose with the Ministerial Code, not seeing breaches of it as resigning issues. Hennessy is an angry man and it's a good listen.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 06:15 AM

Law and order can be maintained in two ways: by common consent, where as citizens we agree to follow rules for the common good, or imposed by brute force. If the self-ordained 'upper classes; exempt themselves from law and order can they reasonably expect the rest of the population to consent to live by the same rules themselves. It is clear that law (applied to the lower masses, and not the elite masters) can only be enforced - so if this isn't descent into fascism, what is?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 06:25 AM

BWM, DaveRo wrote the link maker you use. He also provides Mudcat Browser Tools

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 07:23 AM

Thanks Jon, I had the name on the tip of my typing-finger but just couldn’t quite get it! His Linkifier is a nice piece of work, much smoother and friendlier than the basic Mudcat Blickifier.

I’ll check out the link you gave above.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 12:07 PM

I hear the Whips are saying Tories should vote against referring Johnson to the standards committee because it has a Labour chair.

You would think they would be more confident as it has a Conservative majority.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 12:25 PM

Does it have a Conservative majority?
It has four Conservative members, two Labour, one SNP, and seven 'lay members' whose political leanings don't appear to be listed: Here

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 06:20 PM

It looks as if the composition of the select committee may be irrelevant, if Newsnight's report is correct: they suggest there is an intention to amend Labour's motion to essentially remove all reference to having the committee investigate whether Johnson misled the house, but instead to comment on Ukraine and/or the cost of living.

It looks like we are reliant on the speaker to decide if such an amendment should be selected.   However, as we have yet to see either the motion or any suggested amendments, we may be getting ahead of ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 11:53 AM

That was a fairly long Parliamentary debate to set through, but worth it in some ways. I regret that it was passed unopposed, but I can see why the Conservatives might think that the least damaging option.

Attendance is often poor at these events but it looks like for quite a long time there were only 5 MPs on the government benches. Even so, there were very few people who spoke in support of the PM.

There a few rather odd theological discussions, with Steve Baker throwing chapter and verse into the debate from both the Old and New Testaments, then later Chris Bryant riffing on the Biblical nature of forgiveness and how it does not mean freedom from consequence.

Many of the speeches drifted off topic despite admonishments from the Speaker(s) into Johnson's wider dishonesty rather than the deliberately narrow instances listed in the motion and quite a few were largely reading out the problems their constituents had. These are important, of course, but not actually to do with the strict motion.

The fact the motion passed unopposed gave a somewhat anticlimatic end to the debate, but I think we just not move to a new scene in the drama.

Opinions from anyone else who watched it are welcomed

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 01:29 PM

It was interesting to see that MPs were allowed to refer to Johnson as a liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 02:25 PM

Steve Baker said "I do not like forgiving the Prime Minister. My spirit is much more full of wrath and vengeance. I feel much more Ezekiel 7:3 about this issue, and I invite everybody to look that up"

For those which can't be bothered here it is:
New  International Version
The end is now upon you, and I will unleash my anger against you. I will judge you according to your conduct and repay you for all your detestable practices

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 02:45 PM

Oh do come along, Mr. Baker - don't beat about the bush, spit it out man, tell us what you really think!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 04:42 PM

"Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations"

Thank you King James!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 06:10 PM

“The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and goodwill, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.”

Samuel L Jackson. Pulp Fiction

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Apr 22 - 06:13 PM

To be is to do - Socrates

To do is to be - Sartre

Do Be Do Be Do - Sinatra

:-)

Now back to the fray...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 01:51 AM

This related back to a comment Nigel made earlier about the composition of the committee:


Who sits on [the privileges committee]?
A cross-party group of seven MPs make up the committee. They are the exact same members as sit on the standards committee, given the two used to be combined until 2010.

But unlike the standards committee, the privileges committee does not have any extra lay members – independent people who are not politicians – appointed to sit on it.


(From a Guardian 'explainer')

Given Chris Bryant recused himself, it is not clear to me at the moment whether in the case the committee will have six members, or whether a temporary replacement of Bryant will be made.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 05:54 AM

But I was responding to your comment saying that Boris was being referred to the standards committee for which I gave the make-up to correct your claim of a Conservative bias.
You had not said that he was being referred to the privileges committee.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 06:56 AM

My interest was in making sure people knew there are not laypeople on the committee that will be investigating, and that it does have a Conservative majority. No more.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 06:59 AM

Or more precisely, that was the point of making the 22 Apr 22 - 01:51 AM post.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 07:52 AM

Are you still defending the lying toad Nigel?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 08:07 AM

I’m pretty sure The Lying Toad’s days are numbered. Reading (and listening) between the lines, I’m thinking rumblings of dissent are growing in the ranks of the Tory Party, and he’ll be out on his big fat arse in the not-too-distant.

And I have a strong suspicion that his replacement won’t be any of The Usual Suspects - Gove, Sunak, Patel, Rees-Mogg, Truss - but will be a relative ‘outsider’. I keep seeing Hunt’s name mentioned as one of the quietly-lurking threats to any of those becoming Johnson’s replacement and, if he becomes PM, I can foresee that The Usual Suspects will be toast as far as Cabinet membership goes. Pretty sure that Hunt would be looking to re-establish good relations with the EU, to become ‘The Man Who Saved Brexit’, so Brexiteers would be likely to get short shrift if and when he sets up his Cabinet.

I could be way, way off the mark, but I live in hopes…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 08:28 AM

I agree that whoever replaces Johnson - if that happens - will find distancing themselves from the Johnson regime electorally desirable (except for Brexit itself) so those who have been most vocal in defence of Johnson may find themselves outside the cabinet. Dorries, Rees-Mogg and Shapps amongst others. And it would not entirely surprise me if Rory Stewart and a few others who were jettisoned were invited back into the fold a as s candidates or advisors.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 08:51 AM

I'm sure you're right, DMcG.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 09:04 AM

I fear that most Tory politicos will regard Boris Bunter as the only viable winner of the next election. I fear they may be right.

Stodgy Starmer has put on some better performances recently, but mainly inside the Westminster bubble only. I note that Wes Streeting has almost become Labour's cuttin' 'n' thrustin' dynamic poster boy. I can't stand him myself, but the charm offensive (and sure-footed gift of the gabness) was on show big-time last night on Newscast (for night-owls only). The three presenters certainly fell for the charm and, cosily, gave him free rein. Labour do like to shove him to the front...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 09:39 AM

Wes Streeting strikes me as yer typical Essex-Boy, lots of 'norff 'n' sarrff' and noise, but he's not afraid to challenge the Tory Posh-Boys, and he almost always gives better than he gets. Do I like his persona? Not much. Do I like his fire and willingness to trade punches with the Posh-Boys? Oh yes I do!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 12:33 PM

Back in October I said here that I thought that the UK would not 'pushback' any migrant dinghies in the Channel.

It would appear that they never intended to do it, though some might well have wanted to do it.

From The Guardian

Priti Patel accused of misleading parliament over refugee pushbacks

"The home secretary has been accused of misleading parliament after a high court ruling revealed that unpublished parts of a controversial policy to push back migrant dinghies in the Channel said the tactic would not be used against asylum seekers.

The pushbacks policy was finalised in autumn 2021, yet in January this year Priti Patel said pushing back migrant boats was “absolutely still policy” when she gave evidence to the Lords justice and home affairs committee. She has been accused of giving that evidence even though she knew about the unpublished clauses in the policy not to use pushbacks against asylum seekers."

Less a case of misleading parliament, more a case of misleading some tory supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 12:57 PM

When a person is sitting in a rubber dinghy in the Channel, he/she is not an ‘asylum-seeker’ - asylum can only be sought once the person has his/her feet actually on UK soil. So, in that respect, she spoke the truth - pushback won’t be used against asylum-seekers because, at the point at which their dinghy would be turned back, they have not sought asylum, and they are nothing more than migrants.

That’s nit-picking, of course, but I thought I would save Nigel the trouble. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 01:19 PM

Now this getting a bit metaphysical. Surely they are asylum seekers the instant they step outside their front door to head to another country whether that is legally recognised or not? And in that spirit the key paragraph saya being in the dingy and shouting "I seek asylum" requires the interceptor to bring them to the UK. And in that time between rescue and landing they are apparently seeking asylum but not an asylum seeker.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 01:41 PM

Well of course I was playing devil’s advocate, and teasing with a mischievous suggestion as to what Not-So-Priti Patel’s defence might be, DMcG! ;-)

In fact, I completely agree with your view, but I’m sure there are others - a few of them possibly on this forum - who would defend Patel through thick and thin for no better reason than that she’s a Tory Rightie.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Apr 22 - 02:10 PM

I know, Backswoodman. I was trying to highlight the mental gymnastics needed for Patel to claim she wasn't misleading.

I am sure she hopes no one will mention this in Parliament, and they probably won't because they don't want to lose focus. But if they do, my advice to her would be to 'fess up immediately, however much that grates.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 06:14 AM

The Metropolitan Police are refusing to disclose information about further partygate penalty notices until after the local elections. I think this is a highly political decision and is thoroughly reprehensible. I think that in a democracy we should be entitled to as much relevant information about politicians as is available before being asked to vote. I wonder who made this decision, and who influenced it. Yes I know it's merely local elections, but let's not try to kid ourselves that the national picture doesn't heavily influence local voting.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 07:52 AM

It could work against the Tories, Steve. People do tend to imagine the worsrt unless they know otherwise. Hopefully after the shit hits the fan for the umpteenth time and the Tories take a hammering in the locals, Bozo will resign.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 08:03 AM

Very true, so let's hope that Labour make a Big Thing of it...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 01:15 PM

My local election postal vote has been sent, and I am more than pleased to have voted against the Croydon Labour rot!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Apr 22 - 02:29 PM

I don't think many of us will be surprised, Bonzo!

That you can vote for whoever you choose is something I think we will all support.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 05:32 AM

Very true, so let's hope that Labour make a Big Thing of it...

Labour are making a Big Thing of it.
Perish the thought that they should come up with any positive suggestions.
A) We'll vote with the government on this
B) (with hindsight) That didn't go well, we would have done it differently, but we're not going to tell you what we would have done differently.
C) We don't think that will work, what we should be doing is . . .
Oh, sorry, the current Labour Party don't seem to do 'C'.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Apr 22 - 05:51 AM

Would you care to clarify that, Nigel? Are we still talking partygate or not?