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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Steve Shaw 09 Dec 20 - 09:03 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Dec 20 - 08:25 AM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Dec 20 - 04:17 AM
mayomick 08 Dec 20 - 09:19 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Dec 20 - 08:17 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Dec 20 - 07:43 AM
DMcG 08 Dec 20 - 06:43 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 Dec 20 - 06:25 AM
punkfolkrocker 08 Dec 20 - 05:43 AM
The Sandman 08 Dec 20 - 05:08 AM
The Sandman 08 Dec 20 - 03:44 AM
DMcG 08 Dec 20 - 03:38 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Dec 20 - 03:02 AM
robomatic 07 Dec 20 - 10:38 PM
punkfolkrocker 07 Dec 20 - 07:17 PM
Rain Dog 07 Dec 20 - 06:50 PM
DMcG 07 Dec 20 - 06:06 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 Dec 20 - 05:14 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Dec 20 - 02:04 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Dec 20 - 02:03 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Dec 20 - 01:20 PM
Dave the Gnome 02 Dec 20 - 12:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 02 Dec 20 - 12:41 PM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 08:33 AM
SPB-Cooperator 02 Dec 20 - 08:12 AM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 07:59 AM
SPB-Cooperator 02 Dec 20 - 07:41 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Dec 20 - 06:55 AM
SPB-Cooperator 02 Dec 20 - 06:47 AM
Raggytash 02 Dec 20 - 06:46 AM
Donuel 02 Dec 20 - 06:24 AM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 05:20 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Dec 20 - 05:09 AM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 04:41 AM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 04:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Dec 20 - 04:33 AM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 04:09 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Dec 20 - 03:36 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Dec 20 - 03:34 AM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 03:28 AM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 03:22 AM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 03:09 AM
Dave the Gnome 02 Dec 20 - 02:54 AM
The Sandman 02 Dec 20 - 01:40 AM
Raggytash 01 Dec 20 - 03:47 PM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Dec 20 - 03:44 PM
The Sandman 01 Dec 20 - 02:53 PM
punkfolkrocker 01 Dec 20 - 01:43 AM
SPB-Cooperator 30 Nov 20 - 02:33 PM
punkfolkrocker 30 Nov 20 - 05:56 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Dec 20 - 09:03 AM

Stop trying to delude yourself - and us. Control is shared by the 28 states, and the bigger your state the more say you have. As one of the biggest states we had plenty of say, including the possibility of vetos over many major proposals. There is no European army because we said no, for example. That doesn't amount to "little or no control" in my book. The fact is, Nigel, that the UK willingly joined the consensus over changes to regulations and EU law almost all the time - because you can't get bad laws past all 28 states. The EU is about consensus, not control. Which is not to say that grievous mistakes, over Greece for example, can't be made...

"As opposed to the risks of remaining part of a much larger state over which we had little or no control.
It's no use trotting out the arguments which failed in the referendum."

But it's OK for you to trot out the lies that fooled millions into voting brexit...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Dec 20 - 08:25 AM

Yes Nigel and if these people were taking risks that only affected them that is a good argument. But they are not. The risk of crossing the Brexit river affects everyone in the country, their children and their children's children. Because you and other Brexiteers decided that the risks were worthwhile we will all suffer the consequences. Thank you very much.

As opposed to the risks of remaining part of a much larger state over which we had little or no control.
It's no use trotting out the arguments which failed in the referendum. They were not accepted by the majority of voters then, and I doubt if they would be now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Dec 20 - 04:17 AM

Nigel,

I am thinking of taking up archery as a hobby, and I require you to put an apple on your head so I can have a go at sharpshooting. As I have no practice - I last did archery at school in 1978 - I am aware of the risks if I am an inch or two out with my aim. But you need to fully accept those risks.

No ifs, no butts (pun intended).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: mayomick
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 09:19 AM

Brexit River will turn out to be a creek for most people.Nigel Farage , Boris and a few others will be able paddle their way out of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 08:17 AM

..great metaphor..

..a lot of 'em are already dropping dead from disease,
before they even crawl into the punctured leaky rubber dinghies
attempting to cross the treacherous river brexit...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 07:43 AM

For some the prospect of freedom/sovereignty makes the risks worthwhile.

Yes Nigel and if these people were taking risks that only affected them that is a good argument. But they are not. The risk of crossing the Brexit river affects everyone in the country, their children and their children's children. Because you and other Brexiteers decided that the risks were worthwhile we will all suffer the consequences. Thank you very much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 06:43 AM

Definitely, Nigel. There are those who prepared to let the country take the risks or bear the costs. I would say, though, I see a significant reluctance on their part to elaborate how severe those risks or costs are. Even what they mean by 'short term' is very hard to pin down when they use it phrases like like 'disruption in the short term'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 06:25 AM

From: DMcG
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 03:38 AM

The two biggest problems with the 'better on the other side of the river' argument are that we are not sure it is true, but even if it is, we need to swim the river to get there, and could drown.


Good argument which could be applied to those in Calais looking to make a risky crossing of the channel.
For some the prospect of freedom/sovereignty makes the risks worthwhile.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 05:43 AM

It'll not be too surprising if a significant number of the 60,000 and rising covid fatalities,
voted yes for brexit...

..that'd take a chunk out of the miniscule majority
looking forward so enthusiastically to leaving the EU..


My sense of humour is too dark sometimes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 05:08 AM

i am sure that not everybody who voted leave, voted for a hard brexit some [i think ] were under the impression that there were options like norway or canada or switzerland , there should be another clearer referendum, this is an important issue and people should know exactly what they are voting for


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 03:44 AM

yes PFR thankyou for that video clip.
mean while Hillary Benn is very quiet is he watching which way the wind is blowing, IS HE waiting for Starmer to destroy himself


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 03:38 AM

The two biggest problems with the 'better on the other side of the river' argument are that we are not sure it is true, but even if it is, we need to swim the river to get there, and could drown.

Or to put it less dramatically, all of the costs due to disruption during the few years Rain Dog mentions have to be recovered before you can even think of being better off. If, for example, during that time a long term contract comes up and because of the disruption it goes to another country as supplier, it may be decades before it comes up again so the business concerned (and hence to some extent the UK) is disadvantaged for all that period.

I thought Zoe Williams described it quite well in a recent article

So there emerged two discrete, parallel contexts for the discussion: one completely abstract, in which democracy must be upheld and sovereignty restored; the other completely concrete: who do you sell herring to if you don’t want to eat it, and where on earth do you have an Irish border? Never able to knit those two spheres back together, we had instead this jarring dualism, where we’d talk grace notes in Westminster (take control of our money, borders and laws!), and car plant closures outside Westminster, and those discussions never progressed since they were never informed by one another.

Whether the country thrives or not depends on the concrete: the herrings, the cars, the sheep exports, the services provided and so on. Sovereignty is only really relevant (in trade) to the extent it affects those.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Dec 20 - 03:02 AM

Unfortunately, Robomatic, many favoured a hard Brexit. Trouble is that they believe this means that the UK will keep all the benefits of being in Europe, be able to keep out Johnny Foreigner and, once again, rule the waves. Boris convinced them that he could achieve this. They believed him. Boris may be the worst prime minister we have ever had but, as a con man, he has no equal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 10:38 PM

Watching an American Public Broadcasting television article about Brexit using the term "Hard Brexit" multiple times.

Some good comments from a British economist including the following cautions regarding Hard Brexit long term fallout:

a smaller England with essentially constricted borders
the Good Friday agreement threatened
diplomatic ill feelings between Europe and the U.K., uncertainty with U.S. relations.

A point that was new to me but probably not to many of you was that the Europeans have a need to not let the U.K. look like it got a great deal, because then further exits become more attractive. And I suppose that U.K. has an interest in keeping Scotland aboard while all this is happening as well.

And I believe many of you feel that Boris favors a Hard Brexit anyway.

Canada and Quebec take notice!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 07:17 PM

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK...!!!????? [Wtff for more sensitive folks...]

Not seen this reported on any BBC news...

Labour Suspends Prominent Jewish Activist For Defending Jeremy Corbyn


If this hadn't just turned up on my random youtube feed,
I'd be none the wiser...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 06:50 PM

There are bound to be a few problems as it will take a while to settle down. It will be a few years before we are able to tell if we are better off or not.i don't think we will be but time will tell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 06:06 PM

Possibly, Dave, but I am prepared to wait a few more days to see how things turn out. If a deal is proposed, there is then the UK Parliament and the EU gauntlets to run. So things don't look good, but we will see soon enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Dec 20 - 05:14 PM

Looks like crashing out is inevitable. Why am I not surprised.

An economist interviewed on the news said food will likely to be more expensive and not as readily available. Got to look at the bright side I suppose though. Dishwashers will be cheaper.

I hope all those who were fooled by Boris's Bus and Farage's Frauds will be happy washing all those dishes that have not had any food on them :-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 02:04 PM

Oh, and 400!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 02:03 PM

We were in The Sportsman at Hayfield and saw they had duck muffin on the menu. You can imagine the conversation.

They did have the classic three plaster ducks on the wall and we wondered if they had already been muffed...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 01:20 PM

I've never tried nuckin' a fut, but when I was younger I did enjoy muffin' the mule...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 12:55 PM

Maybe this bloke got it right.

And Dick, maybe you should stop telling people to use their hand. People may think you're an expert at it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 12:41 PM

..a year of covid is tending to bring out the inner conspiracy theorist rebel nutter
in even the previously most sensible folks...

However, all the pre-covid nutters are now completely nucking futs...!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 08:33 AM

i wont be touching you


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 08:12 AM

That's fine if you don't touch things that other people will touch after.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 07:59 AM

then dont cough on anyone use your hand, its easy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 07:41 AM

Using hand sanitisers whenever I pass one helps with that problem - even if it does dry the skin on my hands. My better half has a bigger problem because of eczema from skin allergies. (does anyone know why we say exma and not exzeema - decades of lazy speaking?). Surely the answer in favour of masks is that if we cough on someone, the droplets have a much higher viral load than if we breath on someone. I still find it ridiculous when people still spout on about masks being impervious to oxygen and carbon dioxide. Maybe they are using polythene masks???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 06:55 AM

You're a lucky man if you have both tresticles and bjollocks, Dick. Good luck finding a willy warmer man enough to do the job...

I was in the pub and a bloke sidled up to me at the bar, saying, Hey mate, between you and me we have five bollocks. Why, said I, have you only got the one?

I'm not a mask dissenter or an anti-mask campaigner, and I wear them where required at all times, but, loud and proud, I say that masks are probably more bad than good when I see the misuse they are routinely put to. Wot a lot of people don't realise, when they feel all safe behind their masks and forget all about social distancing, is that not all viruses are inside big sneezy drops that get trapped in the fabric, that virus particles are virtually non-filterable, and that mask wearers who constantly fiddle with the damn things, which is an awful lot of them, probably have a lot more virus on their hands than people who don't wear masks. Yet mask wearing is compulsory whereas hand-washing isn't. You couldn't make it up. Let's stick to the law this time but determine NEVER to let a government control us in this way ever again. Saw a good tweet yesterday which said that I'm not allowed to go to my mum's for tea in her house yet I can have my minge waxed by a total stranger...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 06:47 AM

Viruses are carried in moisture droplet, not methane emissions. Underwear and trousers serve the purpose of **** coverings as masks do as face coverings.

The idea of mass interment is of course ironic, but taking into account the almost certain evidence that the crowds at the football match in Liverpool and the horse races at Cheltenham made the first wave worse than it could have been, gathering in crowds to protest and not wearing face coverings or socially distancing while doing so is irresponsible and has a potential public health risk. The real issues is that the more people someone who is infected comes in contact with, the greater the rate of reinfection. That isn't politics, it is mathematics.

I don't have problems if people want to put themselves at risk, as long as they don't expect help when things go pear-shaped for them - talk to anyone who does mountain rescue as a volunteer or for a living, or RNLI/Coastguard who have to rescue holidaymakers from inflatable toy dinghies. I am concern about people who are cavalier about putting other people at risk.

Restrictions are horrible, but they won't go away while mobs of people flout them just because they don't like being told to take responsibility. Also, if we had a government that faced up to its public health responsivities in a timely manner, then this discussion probably wouldn't even be happening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 06:46 AM

Not so Dick, I didn't make any assumptions I responded to your statement:

"if people want to demonstrate against wearing masks they should be allowed to providing they are social distancing."

If anyone was making an assumption it was you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 06:24 AM

Looks like the UK will get the vaccine before the USA


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 05:20 AM

no, its the law, you can be fined for indecent exposure ,it is not breaking the law to make outdoor protests provide you socially distance , it is totalitarian for steve to insist that they all isolate when he does not know anything about them.or whether they are covid free
it interests me to spot potential controllers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 05:09 AM

Telling me I must wear pants is totalitarian!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 04:41 AM

and you are free to got to a nudist camp and dingle your dongle as long as you dont dingle your dongles and get too close, but there are probably no nudist camps open, or m,aybe y0u can wear a mask over your john thomas, try doing that in your local supermarket thats proibably ok if you have amask over your face and a willy warmer over your tresticles and bjollocks , try it out and let me know


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 04:37 AM

well that is against the law too, its called indecent exposure, i am guessing you mean naked, when you say not wearing pants , not wearing trousers and not underpants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 04:33 AM

Yea, ok, shitting on the pavement may be a bit extreme but it they are spouting freedom to not wear masks, what about my freedom to not wear pants?:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 04:09 AM

they spout freedom of choice not to wear a mask they are not asking to shit on the pavement,
now i do not mind them not wearing a mask if they keep their distance, but people who wear a mask but come close and touch me imo are more dangerous., particularly ironic as he was trying to get to the hand sanitiser
as for you mooning ,
you dont have the figure for it and as for shitting on the pavement it is against the law.
this is the situation in ireland
When must I wear a face covering?
Public transport

You must wear a face covering while using public transport.

If you have a reasonable excuse to not wear a face covering, you should tell the driver or inspector. Read ‘Exceptions’ below for information on reasonable excuses.

Drivers of a public transport vehicle do not have to wear a face covering if they are:

    Alone in a compartment
    Separated from passengers by a screen
    In the vehicle but there are no passengers getting on or off
the people who were demonstrating against wearing a mask were outside.
that is not breaking the law however if they were demonstrating but not social distancing that is different,
but spb insisting that they should be told to self isolate is behaving in a totalitarian manner
he knows nothing about them but assumes they are working and have children.
meanwhile schools remain open in the uk and it is not compulsory to wear masks
Schools and colleges will have the discretion to require face coverings in indoor communal areas where social distancing cannot be safely managed if they believe that it is right in their particular circumstances
why are schools open ,
bloody stupid, they could catch up with their education with a extra months ion the summer , which would mean that by then vaccination would have been rolled out. meanwhile schoolteachers are being put at risk


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 03:36 AM

Just a thought on those who spout freedom of choice.

Wonder if they would be happy if I chose to walk round with no pants and shit on the pavement?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 03:34 AM

Yep, absolutely, Dick. Hands. Face>. Space.

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 03:28 AM

but, dave, that pillock that brushed up against me wearing a mask to get at the hand sanitiser was possibly dangerous, he touched me unnecsssarily, not just a pillock but a knobhead


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 03:22 AM

i am not extracting the urine , but there appears to be medical disagreement on tthe dangers of passing wind and the virus in public


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 03:09 AM

but at least they are not dangerous. quote
but what if they fart, can they still spread the virus whilst wearing a mask? i was in a supermarket and someone did a really smelly one, and nobody knew who it was.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 02:54 AM

The science is dead simple and summarised by round about the only good three word catchphrase this government had come up with. Hands. Face. Space. A combination of all three will help to reduce the spread and everyone should comply. Apart from anyone with genuine medical issues, those purposely flouting those rules are simply knobheads. Those abusing people for not wearing masks are not much better but at least they are not dangerous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 20 - 01:40 AM

STEVE how effective are masks,just answer the question/
QUOTE SPB
Why wasn't everyone involved placed into compulsory supervised quarantine for 14 days. THAT IS THE ATTITUDE OF A TOTALITARIAN
you are making an assumption that they have covid 19.
RAGGY TASH,you are making a sweeping statemrent that all those protestors are the same and have exactly the same opinions, that is as wide of the mark as suggesting that all people who wear masks feel the same way about it.
however i have witnessed people who choose not to wear masks being verbally abused in supermarkets , that is out of order. and is an example of governments getting people to turn on each other divide and rule, i have also seen people wearing masks not giving social distance to others
one person wearing a mask had the audacity to brush me while trying to get to the hand sanitiser. some people wear a mask and seem to forget about social distancing


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 03:47 PM

Now I may be wrong but if people are demonstrating about wearing masks I don't think they are going to be too bothered about social distancing.

Just my tuppence worth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 03:44 PM

It isn't totalitarianism, it is care for myself, the people I love, my friends and my community. it is not so much whether or not people should be forced to look after their own safety, and if they have a death wish, that is their own choice. However, thus was a case where people protesting were not practicing social distancing, and when they go into their workplace the next working day, can their employers guarantee that they have not picked up an infection they are bringing to work, Can the school teachers guarantee the same about the protestors' children?

Nobody enjoys the restrictions, and in my view the government have twice waited until the horse have bolted before closing the stable door.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 02:53 PM

if people want to demonstrate against wearing masks they should be allowed to providing they are social distancing.
Whethet the intention of governments is to control people for the sake of controllling , i do not know, does anyone else know, do yiu know spb co operator, no of course you do not.
but you are developing alarming totalitarian tendencies, however a lot of controlling is occurring, i wear masks in supermarkets ,but none of us know how effective they are, i think social distancing is more important,
i have noticed how this is being used to divide people against another ,people haranguing others for not wearing masks, divide and rule again, some people behaving in over the top aggressive attitudes to others for not wearing masks


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Dec 20 - 01:43 AM

This just popped up on my youtube feed...

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgwCoxZ03yLox8xeRit4AaABCQ

"Sky News
11 hours ago
A backlash over a council's plan to spend £100,000 on the unveiling of a Margaret Thatcher statue
has prompted more than 1,000 people to promise they will turn up at an "egg throwing contest" on the same day...
"

https://news.sky.com/story/margaret-thatcher-statue-more-than-1-000-vow-to-attend-egg-throwing-contest-at-unveiling-amid-backlash-12147303

[clicky wont work..]

"Margaret Thatcher statue: More than 1,000 vow to attend 'egg throwing contest' at unveiling amid backlash
The £300,000 bronze statue will be placed on a 10ft-high plinth to prevent vandalism....
"


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 02:33 PM

Nah, it would be child protection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Nov 20 - 05:56 AM

Not saying our PM is a poor judge of character..

.. but..

If Jimmy Saville were still breathing,
boris would probably appoint him as special adviser to Hospitals and Schools...


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