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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Steve Shaw 05 Apr 21 - 06:04 PM
Backwoodsman 05 Apr 21 - 05:24 PM
Big Al Whittle 05 Apr 21 - 05:12 PM
Steve Shaw 05 Apr 21 - 02:31 PM
Big Al Whittle 05 Apr 21 - 02:25 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 21 - 07:34 PM
Doug Chadwick 04 Apr 21 - 06:05 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 21 - 05:11 PM
Doug Chadwick 04 Apr 21 - 03:26 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 21 - 12:18 PM
Big Al Whittle 04 Apr 21 - 09:40 AM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Apr 21 - 08:46 AM
Bonzo3legs 04 Apr 21 - 07:28 AM
BobL 04 Apr 21 - 07:08 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 21 - 06:39 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 21 - 06:31 AM
Bonzo3legs 04 Apr 21 - 05:58 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Apr 21 - 05:35 AM
Bonzo3legs 04 Apr 21 - 05:20 AM
Doug Chadwick 04 Apr 21 - 04:29 AM
Bill D 03 Apr 21 - 08:50 PM
mg 03 Apr 21 - 08:19 PM
Rain Dog 03 Apr 21 - 02:01 PM
DMcG 03 Apr 21 - 01:20 PM
Backwoodsman 03 Apr 21 - 04:58 AM
Rain Dog 03 Apr 21 - 04:36 AM
Bill D 02 Apr 21 - 09:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Apr 21 - 09:26 PM
Bill D 02 Apr 21 - 08:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Apr 21 - 08:15 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 21 - 07:13 PM
Bonzo3legs 02 Apr 21 - 03:58 PM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Apr 21 - 01:53 PM
Raggytash 01 Apr 21 - 10:20 AM
Rain Dog 31 Mar 21 - 02:43 PM
SPB-Cooperator 31 Mar 21 - 02:27 PM
Dave the Gnome 31 Mar 21 - 01:38 PM
The Sandman 31 Mar 21 - 12:58 PM
Backwoodsman 31 Mar 21 - 05:26 AM
SPB-Cooperator 31 Mar 21 - 03:04 AM
The Sandman 27 Mar 21 - 09:43 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 21 - 09:38 AM
SPB-Cooperator 27 Mar 21 - 08:15 AM
Allan Conn 25 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM
Nigel Parsons 25 Mar 21 - 07:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Mar 21 - 07:48 AM
DMcG 25 Mar 21 - 04:11 AM
Allan Conn 24 Mar 21 - 06:20 PM
DMcG 24 Mar 21 - 05:32 PM
DMcG 24 Mar 21 - 05:30 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 21 - 06:04 PM

Johnson is no loser. He's killed tens of thousands of people via sheer incompetence. He's wasting 37 billion on a useless track and trace system. He's trashing the ordinary working people of this country. He's going to waste even more on a pointless passport system. Everything he's doing, he's doing in order to control us ever more. He lies in his teeth at every juncture. But he's nine points ahead in the polls. Believe me, he knows how not to be a loser. The real loser is Starmer, who is bloody useless, and he's leading into perdition millions of ordinary people in this country who at least deserve an opposition that they're not getting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Apr 21 - 05:24 PM

”And as we discovered with Kinnock and Corbyn - it not the smartest thing to let a complete loser into the Leader of the Opposition job either.”

It seems to be working for the Tories with Johnson though, Al.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Apr 21 - 05:12 PM

maybe not Steve, but it was a damned difficult negotiation and turned very unpleasant several times. My friends tended to get more outraged on my behalf than I was.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the Falklands. except maybe when narrow advantage is being pursued - (Like Galtieri's imperial ambitions and the man who thought he was entitled to have a nice drive, but I wasn't)). Then someone has to stand up to them.

Thatcher was being reckless with our defence commitments. Ultimately it was young soldiers who pulled her chestnuts out of the fire.....I don't think she choreographed the entire conflict. The result wasn't that certain, and anyway she wasn't that bright.

Like America has discovered with Trump - you can't really let someone totally irresponsible into the the top job. Argentina paid a heavy price for just that.
And as we discovered with Kinnock and Corbyn - it not the smartest thing to let a complete loser into the Leader of the Opposition job either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 21 - 02:31 PM

At least he didn't come back, saying that because his van had been there for a long time it was now his drive...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Apr 21 - 02:25 PM

But say it wasn't the bloke next door. Say it was a bloke from 200 miles away who kept parking his car on your drive. You'd have more justification then, no?


Well no. Not in my view. That did actually happen to me. This bloke asked me if he could leave his van on my drive for a night - and it was still there three years later, rusting away.


Probably I should have been more warlike. But its one of my many failings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 07:34 PM

A bit of undeliberate gerrymandering cures all, then, Doug...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 06:05 PM

If the residents of those islands choose to link up with the UK, rather than with Argentina, then that's up to them.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 05:11 PM

?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 03:26 PM

If you choose to link up with the bloke from 200 miles away, then it has nothing to do with the bloke next door.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 12:18 PM

But say it wasn't the bloke next door. Say it was a bloke from 200 miles away who kept parking his car on your drive. You'd have more justification then, no?


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 09:40 AM

I suppose by the same argument:-
Ireland belongs to England
England belongs to France

and Hitler was right

Poland belongs to Germany

The Canaries belong to Africa

and I'll have the bloke next door's car if he puts it on my drive again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 08:46 AM

Little bits of territory with attachments to other countries in principle isn't a bad idea - if we had a little Spanish town in Sussex or. Norwegian enclave in Northumberland for example it could be quite a good arrangements. Being able to go for a trip abroad while staying local might be good, especially for a country confined to an island. I've never heard that the people of Newfoundland have any oroblem with having the French island of St Pierre and Miquelon on their doorstep.

The trouble is, much of the time it's all tied in with a history of foreign conquest and imperialism and si forth. Ii'd be good if it could be sorted out with a bit of territorial exchange, so a foreign enclave on the shores of Spain would be matched by an analogous Spanish enclave on the shores of England, and so forth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 07:28 AM

Yes indeed. As with any country, for the most part the Argentines are lovely people, and we have always been made most welcome during our 7 visits there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: BobL
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 07:08 AM

Trouble is it wasn't just the Flaklands (a typo, but let it stand). If they'd been surrendered to Argentina, or even made over as part of a negotiated settlement, what would be the effect on Gibraltar? Or Northern Ireland?


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 06:39 AM

Incidentally, Bonzo, your hero Thatcher was supporting an even worse murderous dictator at the time, you know, that bloke in Chile...


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 06:31 AM

I'm not really arguing about the rights or wrongs of 1982, am I? Though if you really want me to, I'd say it was like a lot of wars: two lots of bad guys...


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 05:58 AM

That's all irrelevant, the islands were occupied at the whim of a military dictator, whose foul regime dropped opponents from a helicopter into Rio De La Plata. The. ragtail army largely made up of conscripts who almost certainly didn't want to be there!!'


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 05:35 AM

The islanders are all Brits. We promise to defend 'em at hang the expense and we do their foreign dealings for them. They are scarcely independent, are they? We abandoned the islands in the late 18th century and swanned back in in the 19th when we were marauding around the world doing what we liked. So we set up a colony thousands of miles from the British Isles but very close to South America and then claim the right to self-determination for a bunch of Brits. We have steadfastly refused to negotiate this morally-dubious position time and time again. It's very difficult to make the moral argument that we should have dominion over territory so far from home and so close to others' home. Imagine an exclusively Chinese colony occupying Orkney or an exclusively Russian colony occupying the Isle Of Man...


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 05:20 AM

Possession is 10 points of the law. The glorious British Army gave the ill equiped, ill experienced Argentine army, navy and airforce a good biffing!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 04:29 AM

Look at a bloody map. Those islands belong to Argentina.

Look at a bloody map. Argentina belongs to those islands.


How about "Those islands belong to the islanders" ?

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 08:50 PM

?? I can't find any mention of Bogle's version. If he really did, I'd like to hear it.

Here's the original recording Survivor Leave. The Boarding Party


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: mg
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 08:19 PM

i always assumed that Eric Bogle had written it. He recorded it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 02:01 PM

Good and bad news.

Start of February Dover District Council announced they were looking to create 100 jobs as they expand the Dover Port Health Authority.

The Department of Transport and the local councils, seem set on creating an inland clearance facility to undertake border controls for up to 1200 trailers. They plan to build very, very near to the local village of Guston. While the jobs created by the building and running of the facility are very welcome, the disruption that will be caused to the villagers and local people will be less welcome.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 01:20 PM

Since Brexit good news is in short supply, here is some from a friend of mine. Admittedly, it only gets a small part of the haulage business back to where it was in the first place, but every little helps. As it seems to be due to the generosity (and self interest!) of France, I do not expect much praise from the leave side, but there you are.


Guess what. The French have given us Brits back the right to have access to their abnormal load roam permits, yay / phew. I played a key part in this win. I said to our diplomats exactly the right things to make it happen. I am ecstatic. Convoi Exceptionnel Ltd should be fêted in the mass media, but nobody cares enough about transport, so - not, hey-ho, it does mean I can still fit my pride-swollen head through a door... But this is a huge victory for British hauliers, and for many hundreds of UK industries, and a top achievement of my life. Must mention my colleague Caroline Ward, who did some excellent research, that was just as crucial to the win. Also the Heavy Transport Association, esp John Dyne, who is a brilliant and very insightful person. And I adore the French, for doing this. Entente cordiale it still is. Yay.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 04:58 AM

You really couldn’t make it up, could you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 04:36 AM

Saw mention of this in current issue of Private Eye.

More vets are needed now in order to provide documentation for exports to the EU.At this time there is a shortage of them in the UK. Hence the need to relax the rules on English language qualifications for those coming here to fill the vacancies.

Language requirements for veterinarians in the UK


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 09:55 PM

Yeah.. could be about a number of different events. My friends' group was "The Boarding Party" and taking the lead on that song was Bob Hitchcock, originally from Suffolk. He did an excellent job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 09:26 PM

Powerful song. Could as well be about survivors from either the Sheffield or the Belgrano. That's true for so many war songs, the best ones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 08:45 PM

No matter one's opinion as to the reason for it all, it gave us a very moving song that says nothing about the politics of it.
Some friends of mine were in a pub in England, when the author, just back from The Falklands, sang it from his handwritten copy. They asked to record it, and he agreed.
Here's the words and tune.
http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/song-midis/Survivor_Leave.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 08:15 PM

When that all blew up lots of people in England were puzzled why Argentina should be claiming a bunch of islands off the coast of Scotland.

Maybe when the Scots go for independence the Westminster government, in the dying days of the United Kingdom, will detach the Shetlands from Scottish control, and set up a swap with Argentina so that the Falklands stay English, and the Shetlands go to Argentina.


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 07:13 PM

Look at a bloody map. Those islands belong to Argentina. The war was all about Maggie getting herself re-elected. So what if a few hundred Argie teenagers were slaughtered. We kept those benighted islands so that the UK can support the lives of a couple of thousand spoiled imperialistic brats.


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Subject: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 03:58 PM

Today is the day of the Argentine veterans and fallen of the Falklands war. We stood by the Malvinas Memorial in Buenos Aires on April 2 1998, 2000,2002, 2005, 2007, 2008 & 2011. It was very sad to see the mothers crying for their lost sons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 01:53 PM

With the damage the government has done to exporters, particularly in the fishing industry, I am surprised that they haven't replaced cash welfare benefits with seafood vouchers.

If some people have severe allergic reactions, then that would be a saving on pensions and universal credit. (irony).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 10:20 AM

Yet another, albeit small, side effect of Brexit we were never told about.

A small company in Scotland manufacturing dog chews is to relocate it's operation to France after it became too difficult to obtain ways through the trade barriers now in place.


link


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 02:43 PM

No doubt like so many countries, Spain will miss the income from tourists and expats. Of course certain places here in the UK will also miss the tourists buying Ye Olde Fish & Chips


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 02:27 PM

Irregular noun:

I am an ex-pat.
You are a migrant.
He/she is an illegal immigrant.

I wonder if Spain is going to miss the English pubs and fish and chip shops in Costa Del Pequeña Inglaterra.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 01:38 PM

900!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 12:58 PM

Today will be the last day that little Englander British migrants will who have refused to integrate into the local communities on mainland Europe and have not applied for or meet 'right to remain' status will be able to legally stay in continental Europe for the next 90 days"
Clarification, read above carefully, this applies to Mainland Europe, not the rep of ireland.
I agree with Backwoodsmans points, however it must not be assumed that all expats voted for brexit


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 05:26 AM

SPB - in the press and meedja, ‘Migrants’ seems only to refer to ‘damn foreigners’ coming into the UK. British people migrating to other countries are, apparently, ‘Ex-Pats’.

Funny how, in the warped minds of flag-wagging, forelock-tugging, grovelling ‘patriots’, ‘migrant’ is a one-way term of abuse, innit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 03:04 AM

Today will be the last day that little Englander British migrants will who have refused to integrate into the local communities on mainland Europe and have not applied for or meet 'right to remain' status will be able to legally stay in continental Europe for the next 90 days.

To mirror what the bigots and xenophobes in the UK have been spouting for the last 5 years, surely the British economy cannot stand a flood of British Migrants returning to the UK and we should be able to cherry-pick those who the state deems 'most useful' and as such those who do not meet the points system as per the new Immigration Act would therefore render themselves stateless and should them have to seek settlement through the asylum process and be treated the same way as other asylum seekers are treated - and with the proposed new draconian rules - sorry, no sympathy from me, particularly as it seems that this group includes the leave voters living overseas.

The only people who I do feel sympathy for are any pro-Europeans who do want to integrate with whichever society they chose to live in - not existing, but those in the future and any European people who wish to integrate into UK society but are considered inferior by the hime office. (Wasn't there a doctrine in Europe in the 1930s and 40s and another up to the 60s in America that looked upon fellow humans as inferior or unworthy?).

It distresses me that I seem to be living in this kind of so-called regressive society which earlier generations fought and laid down their lives to oppose. But at the same time I feel a sense of perverse satisfaction that those who have been hoisted by their own petard are getting their come-uppance.

Here endeth getting my rant out of my system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 09:43 AM

I would refuse to fight for the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 09:38 AM

"While I have no problem with being patriotic, and by that I mean living in a beautiful, and supposedly outward looking, safe and welcoming country, I despise the evils that are being carried out 'in the name of my country' and the assumption that if I do not stand side by side with these evils, I am somehow not patriotic."

Absolutely spot on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 08:15 AM

I refuse to agree to my local authority being forced to fly the flag as I am not a neo-nazi flag waving rabid nationalist. If any employees for my local authority obey the law, then they need to be ostracised by society.

On a less ironic note, even thought the above does reflect my feelings, my partner lived through the Soviet rule of Czechoslovakia, and families that failed to demonstrate fealty, for example by not flying the soviet flag from their balconies/windows, would be excluded from opportunities in society.

While I have no problem with being patriotic, and by that I mean living in a beautiful, and supposedly outward looking, safe and welcoming country, I despise the evils that are being carried out 'in the name of my country' and the assumption that if I do not stand side by side with these evils, I am somehow not patriotic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM

I don't think the Holyrood Parliament would actually be included in the dictat about flying the union flag. It is UK gvt buildings which the instructions are for. So the likes of The Scotland Office and the new Queen Elizabeth House etc. The Holyrood Parliament is a Scottish Gvt building which fall outside the order.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 07:54 AM

I read about the flags on the front page of today's Telegraph:
The Union flag will be flown from UK government buildings every day after the rules around flag etiquette were rewritten by the Culture Secretary.
New guidance, which will apply from the summer, says all UK government buildings will be asked to fly the flag every day of the year. Currently, union flags are only flown on government buildings on set days.
For buildings with only one flagpole, the guidance says that "the Union Flag should be flown every day except on certain occasions when you may wish to fly other flags", such as the national flags of constituent nations of the UK.


The 'Political Correspondent" (Danielle Sheridan) went on to say:
The Union flag, which was created in its current form in 1801, embodies the emblems of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland
Needless to say I've written a stroppy letter as Wales has no representation on the Union flag. - sloppy reporting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 07:48 AM

Any think that the latest debacle about the EU and vaccine is yet another smokescreen to be added to the ever growing list of lies about the EU?

It's almost as if the brexiteers have realised what a disaster it is turning out to be and are looking for justification for their actions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 04:11 AM

I agree Allan. In a few weeks time either the SNP will have a majority themselves, or be in an alliance with another independence-inclined group.   I do not see them flying the Union Flag over Holyrood. Nor do I see the Westminster Government can do a thing about it without increasing the support of independence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 06:20 PM

Not all gvt buildings. Northern Ireland exempt. Not Scotland though. Supposedly to strengthen the union. They really are stupid to a staggering degree. People who are unionists will be OK with the jackery but Yes leaning folk will just be irritated by it. You can't force people's identity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 05:32 PM

sorry, all national *government* buildings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 05:30 PM

New regulations are being introduced, it seems, to fly the Union Flag on all national buildings, with local governments encouraged to do so.

Can singing the national anthem or rule Britannia every morning in school assemblies be far distant?


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