BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 12:10 PM

My mum has dementia, but not even all dementias are the same.
My mum's is a specific type..
..but I can't remember what it's called..

It's all very complex to diagnose..

Here amongst mudcat's aging membership,
we have to stay aware and sympathetic.;
no matter how odd or annoying other mudcatters may become..

A healthy sense of humour is paramount...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 12:21 PM

"Johnson is the Leader of the party, Bonz. If you vote for a party’s constituency candidate , that is effectively a vote for that party’s leader. You voted Tory, you voted for Johnson - man up and own it. "

What???????????????????????? I voted Conservative and am very very proud of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 12:45 PM

So you voted for the Party and, by virtue of voting for the Party of which he’s leader, you voted for Johnson. Thus my original point, and also the one you quote above, still stand.

BTW, appending multiple exclamation marks to a statement is not only very bad from the point of view of the use of punctuation, but it adds no weight whatever to the point you’re attempting to make.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 01:25 PM

where are your stats backwoodsman and punk to back up your twaddle.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 01:29 PM

Dick...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 01:30 PM

Quite so, pfr...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 01:36 PM

Dick - where is your imagination to comprehend hypothetical ideas

beyond your restricted over-literal limits of understanding...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 01:48 PM

Pfr, let him bleat and flap around. This is a discussion forum, not a court. It’s perfectly legitimate to state an opinion, and there is no compunction on anyone to ‘prove’ their opinion. They are what they are - opinions - nothing else.

The sensible majority understand that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 01:59 PM

BWM - absolutely, he constantly makes himself look a right pompous buffoon,

every time he demands imperiously that other mudcatters must prove things to him...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 02:07 PM

However, just to set the record straight...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50765773?app=news.election.2019.story.50765773.page

From the above link...

”Labour, which has lost seats across the North, Midlands and Wales in places which backed Brexit in 2016, is facing its worst defeat since 1935.

I wasn’t born in 1935 so ‘in living memory’ works for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 03:07 PM

I'm losing track of this...

I'm still a member of the union I joined almost 50 years ago. In the earlier times I got in trouble with the Gen Sec (Fred Jarvis) for trying to organise unofficial strikes. I got two very threatening letters from him in the mid-70s. My best union mate was Blair Peach, but his murder in 1979 knocked the stuffing out of me and I just stayed active but not an activist. He was a member of the SWP in the days when they were a real revolution party, but I didn't hold with that and I didn't join. He was the nicest, kindest and gentlest man you could wish to meet, but he was the very divil in union meetings and he never let go of his socialist principles, living his life as you'd fully expect a true socialist to live. He was also a superb teacher of children with special needs. I've always been far to the left of the union establishment but I'll die a member. I had to bite my lip when it came to my fellow teachers joining more docile and right-wing unions, but I could scarcely tolerate working with people who refused to join a union at all, and they knew it. The union movement allowed Thatcher to demolish what I saw as real trade unionism, and my view has always been that the working class in this country has been treated much the worse in consequence. We've ended up with what weasel Tories call "the flexible labour market": temporary, part-time, seasonal, sack-you-at-will, zero-hours, fake apprenticeships, rock-bottom pay, gangmasters...

I joined Labour when Corbyn was elected. He is of the left, he is unspun and he is a man of principle. After the 2017 election, in which he did incredibly well, he was perceived by the Tory populist right as a threat. So, for the next couple of years, he was unscrupulously targeted big-time, both from within his own party (all those disaffected Blairites and Brownites, not to speak of that disreputable bunch of sour-faced, lying antisemitism-accusers) and without, the Board Of Deputies (who no-one ever voted for) and the scumbags of the tabloids. Why, the actual Tory Party hardly had to do a thing. You guys who keep bleating on that Jeremy was "unelectable" always fail to qualify that by admitting that even the Angel bloody Gabriel would have been "unelectable" in the face of that onslaught. The campaign against him was unscrupulous and concerted, positively conspiratorial, and predicated on lies. I'm staying in the party, though I'm rock-solid certain that Starmer is a born follower, a born caver-in and a born loser. That's just me. Thanks for reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 03:22 PM

Steve - no.. thank you.. that was a bloody good read...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 03:29 PM

"BTW, appending multiple exclamation marks to a statement is not only very bad from the point of view of the use of punctuation, but it adds no weight whatever to the point you’re attempting to make."

It is of no consequence to me!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 03:54 PM

Steve I ought to clarify..

When I was taking the piss out of the 'care in the community' element of my local Labour party members,

..it's not referring to politics [ie, left or right of the party], but personalities..

Bloody awkward time and energy draining self important people with psychological 'issues'..

Labour, being a compassionate inclusive fraternity, seems to attract a lot of 'em..

Then mix that with cider and waccy baccy.. it's a nightmare putting up with them..

I've never had sufficient patience.

Maybe, it's just worse in the south west towns I grew up in...???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 05:10 PM

Well I've seen similar things down yer in Bude, where the local Labour Party is currently tearing itself to bits (and it isn't exactly over-populated...). Once it becomes ashes maybe I'll supply the phoenix, but at the moment I really can't be arsed with it. Folk music seems at times to be the same sort of magnet... But my mum and dad, rest 'em now, were both Labour Party people and even as an early teen I was out there taking numbers for the canvassers at the polling station and having tea and butties at the party HQ (a terraced house in Wolseley Street). My dad and his mate were Labour councillors in our home town. It was unthinkable to not be in a trade union. Labour may not be in a good place but at least I'm in the tent pissing out and not outside pissing in. It's my party and I'll cry if I want to...

Just remembered...Phoenix....That was the name of the special school (as we called 'em then) at Mile End where Blair Peach worked. The kids there all loved Blair to bits, and they came to his funeral, along with 22000 others... we all sang the Internationale...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 05:19 PM

pfr Please stop telling me what to do.
i have spent the last five hours working on a festival completion grant form. i had to this in 2019 and now have to do it all over again.
do you organise anything, probably not, you have no idea of the work that goes in to providing music and gigs for people
well kindly do not tell me what to do, and kindly stop calling me names

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 05:32 PM

Ye gods...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 06:03 PM

Steve - as I was saying...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 06:04 PM

It's at times like this I can appreciate the logic of limiting these threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Dec 20 - 08:16 PM

Do that, Dave, and you might not hear the rest of me life story...Bejaysus, this Mozzers five-quid Nero d'Avola ain't half bad... Did I tell you that I've actually been to Avola... and that me mum for ten years ran the best chippy in Radcliffe...and that I bashed the spuds for her (well underage) for seven and a tanner a week...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 01:24 AM

The BBC can predict what they like before the election ..they were wrong it was not the worst defeat since 1935, check your facts you still have not provided any proof or stats to back up your comment. a bbc prediction before an election is not proof.
punk there is no evidence whatsoever that the labour party was infiltrated by conservatives to elect jeremy corbyn

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 03:32 AM

I may be going into yer actual mozzers later this week, Steve. They have cocked up big time on staff discount for retired employees and it seems my discount card can only be used in store currently. If it's not sorted out soon expect to see a news story about mozzers forcing pensioners to risk going in store ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 03:57 AM

Sand - if and when you fall off your high horse,
you'll have been up there so long,
you'll land neck deep in a mound of horse shit...

You are behaving even more erratic and unstable than usual..

I'm laughing my bollocks off that you are still so crankily triggered
by a tongue in cheek suggestion of tory vote rigging to select Corbyn..

Calm down, before you do yourself a mischief..

[btw.. as conspiracy theories go,
there is actually more plausibility thousands of tories paid the affordable fee to vote for jezza..]

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 04:17 AM

This isn’t a court, pfr. Nobody has to ‘prove’ anything here, except in the mind of a lonely trouble-maker and troll. Ignore him and let him continue making a fool of himself - he’ll eventually get tired of it and start working on some other victim.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 06:15 AM

tongue in cheek, perhaps you should have made that clear, uniformed twaddle and the same from back woodsman.
the tronblemakers are the people who put up provocative statements punk does it all the time then we have you talking garbage about election defeats , check your facts. you call me lonely
you know nothing about me.
I am far from lonely.
throughout the pandemic i have been be making live music with friends.
doing zoom gigs etc
doing outside gigs. regular music with friends
you really talk uninformed twaddle . ever heard the phrase empty vessels make most sound,
I am also lucky to live in ireland where trad music is appreciated every night i can hear two to 3 hours of good music on radio

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 06:57 AM

And this is Brexit & other UK political topics because?

Just continuing the previous hypocrisy as far as I can see.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 08:05 AM

”ever heard the phrase empty vessels make most sound,”

Oh, the delicious irony! Hilarious!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 08:13 AM

I suggest a course of Billy Joe Shaver!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 08:19 AM

So the EU now sees a deal as possible. It says the UK has made a key concession:

Barnier said Downing Street now accepted the principle that as either side develops their environmental, social and labour standards over time there should be a way to ensure that trade flows are not distorted by the failure of the other to reciprocate. He described the solution as “unilateral measures”, or tariffs, which would probably be applied after a period of arbitration.


I think that is key to any deal. Boris can claim a success because the UK is not automatically bound to EU changes. Equeally the EU ican claim a success in saying it can impose tariffs. Both sides being able to claim a success is very useful in negotiations.

Now the EU does not like this idea on fishing:


The UK has now suggested that pelagic fish are removed from any deal with Brussels and that shares are instead negotiated through the North-East Atlantic Fisheries Commission, of which Iceland and Norway are members. Pelagic fish refers to species that swim closer to the surface and accounts for approximately 80% of the value of fish caught by EU fleet.


However, even the the EU is unhappy, that hides an important UK concession: the UK would not be the sole arbiter of who can catch what fish. So this "UK waters are for the UK" has grown more subtle.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Dec 20 - 11:10 AM

"you should have made that clear"

Dick - no.. you should read other members posts calmly, in good humour,
and when necessary with imagination,
without filtering every word through your own resentments..

Most vital though, you need to show some reasonable self control,
and respect for mudcat community.

You are just only one of a diverse membership of equals.
You may be a good folk artist and festival organiser,
but that does not grant you any special privileges.

How dare you keep on vaingloriously demanding that other mudcatters must account themselves to your higher authority..

You are by no means pretty or famous enough to get away with such persistent outrageous diva behaviour..

It is you who creates a trail of disruptive rancour
in just about every thread you inflict yourself upon...

So ffs lighten up...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 02:07 AM

Sandman - I have deleted your PM without opening it . DO NOT PM ME. I have no interest in any of your childish idiocy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 03:08 AM

Bonzo, I know I'm going to regret asking but what's a course of Billy Joe Shaver?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 03:27 AM

I’d be interested to know too, Dave! I know BJS is/was a Country singer, but his relevance here is completely lost on me...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 04:03 AM

Backwoodsman punkfolk rocker
Tha còmhradh y0ur a ’cur mo chuimhne orwells newspeak CÉARD IOMLÁN NA mBALLAÍ

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 04:14 AM

Illegitimes non carborundum, chaps.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 04:37 AM

Barking dogs seldom bite.
Defintion of Backwoodsman, According to dictionary ,pleas note not mt opinion
North American
an inhabitant of backwoods, especially one regarded as uncouth or backward.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 05:30 AM

Bonzo, I know I'm going to regret asking but what's a course of Billy Joe Shaver?

A course of Billy Joe Shaver (RIP) songs!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 06:23 AM

OK. :-S

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 07:26 AM

Dick - ok so you are bi-lingual in complete bollox - so what..

I am going to ignore you in this thread until/unless you get back on topic,
and post relevant sensible contributions to the debate.

We are after all more or less on the same side against the tories.

I trust we can resume fairly good humoured amicable tolerant interaction as mudcat mates,
sooner rather than later..

That's up to you...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 07:48 AM

so saying Corbyn was voted elected as leader of the labour party by conservatives is reasonable sensible debate? or was it a joke? you cannot have it both ways. if iy was a joke then its ok for you to make childish idiotic jokes, but everyone else has to make sensible debate
to quote yourself
How dare you keep on vaingloriously demanding that other mudcatters must account themselves to your higher authority..
so its ok for you to vaingloroiusly insist that others account for themselves and debate sensibly, but not yourself. you are a booby who talks twaddle

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 08:36 AM

Dick -

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 12:52 PM

?????? ???? ??? ??

kutta bhonk raha hai

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 01:02 PM

Don't know what Kutta BHONK raha rai means but in Hindi Kutta BHOK raha rai means I am afraid according to my good lady who speaks the language.

Perhaps he meant kutta bhag raha rai which translates (Iam told) as I am being bored.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 01:07 PM

You are just arguing and for arguments sake and purposely being obstreperous, Dick. You know you are on thin ice here anyway. Why risk plunging into the cold?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 01:08 PM

Raggy - whatever he is, he has similar disruptive attention-seeking behaviour issues
as the most problematic 5-year olds my wife teaches...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 01:55 PM

Dick, if they aren't playing the way you want to play then go find a different thread to participate in. Don't start a new one, that won't fly. Just find something else to do. And the rest of you could pull up your socks and just ignore Dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 20 - 02:17 PM

Hey, include me out of that admonishment, Maggie! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 05:20 AM

I am intending to get vaccinated as soon as possible,while i have a good immune system, i feel it would be unfair on the vulnerable in the community to pass on a virus which could possibly result in another persons death, undoubtedly there are people out there who muight regard this as idiotic, i am assuming vaccination prevents the passing on of covid 19.
i am not an expert on the subject , but i am sure there are experts who regularly contribute to this thread, who know about the dangers and the safety of the vaccines

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 05:30 AM

Would have been better in the coronavirus thread, Dick. Incidentally, as things stand that isn't a safe assumption. The vaccine preventing illness is one thing. Killing off the virus if it gets in your body, so that you can't spread it, is an entirely other.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jos
Date: 16 Dec 20 - 05:30 AM

There is no certainty that getting vaccinated will prevent you catching the disease or passing it to others.
If you get vaccinated it should prevent you ending up in hospital, which will mean the health service can treat more cancer patients and replace more hips and knees.