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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

punkfolkrocker 12 Dec 20 - 02:21 PM
The Sandman 12 Dec 20 - 02:09 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Dec 20 - 01:58 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Dec 20 - 01:36 PM
The Sandman 12 Dec 20 - 01:27 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Dec 20 - 01:13 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Dec 20 - 12:52 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Dec 20 - 12:50 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Dec 20 - 12:48 PM
punkfolkrocker 12 Dec 20 - 12:08 PM
Backwoodsman 12 Dec 20 - 11:54 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Dec 20 - 11:29 AM
Raggytash 12 Dec 20 - 11:12 AM
Bonzo3legs 12 Dec 20 - 11:08 AM
punkfolkrocker 12 Dec 20 - 07:28 AM
Donuel 12 Dec 20 - 07:25 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 20 - 06:13 AM
DMcG 12 Dec 20 - 06:09 AM
Dave the Gnome 12 Dec 20 - 05:54 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 20 - 05:45 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 20 - 05:43 AM
Jos 12 Dec 20 - 05:42 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 20 - 05:25 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Dec 20 - 05:22 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 20 - 05:19 AM
DMcG 12 Dec 20 - 05:16 AM
Nigel Parsons 12 Dec 20 - 05:13 AM
Steve Shaw 12 Dec 20 - 04:58 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Dec 20 - 08:28 PM
Donuel 11 Dec 20 - 07:32 PM
Dave the Gnome 11 Dec 20 - 06:53 PM
Rain Dog 11 Dec 20 - 06:21 PM
Raggytash 11 Dec 20 - 05:23 PM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Dec 20 - 05:11 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Dec 20 - 05:09 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Dec 20 - 02:25 PM
DMcG 11 Dec 20 - 02:22 PM
DMcG 11 Dec 20 - 02:20 PM
Rain Dog 11 Dec 20 - 01:55 PM
DMcG 11 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Dec 20 - 01:02 PM
SPB-Cooperator 11 Dec 20 - 12:23 PM
punkfolkrocker 11 Dec 20 - 11:54 AM
DMcG 11 Dec 20 - 09:56 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 Dec 20 - 09:51 AM
punkfolkrocker 11 Dec 20 - 07:51 AM
Steve Shaw 11 Dec 20 - 06:13 AM
DMcG 11 Dec 20 - 06:07 AM
Nigel Parsons 11 Dec 20 - 05:05 AM
The Sandman 11 Dec 20 - 02:54 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 02:21 PM

I still can't help suspecting an organised influx of tories
paid the minimal fee to vote Corbyn in as Labour leader...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 02:09 PM

the person who is dividing the labour party now is Starmer, politically naive and incompetent,the easy way to have got rid of corbyn was make him a peer.Starmer is an idiot


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 01:58 PM

“I recognized his integrity and principles,
but thought a younger leader with less negative baggage
would have been a better long term choice..

I could never join the Labour party,
but will continue defending and voting for them..
as futile as that may be...???”


Ha, sorry pfr, it’s Saturday night, FA on Telly, idling my time away on my iPad, bored shitless, I allowed myself the luxury of a bit of chain-yanking! Mea Culpa!

Those are my thoughts exactly. Although, like you, I’m not sure that Starmer’s the right man for the job, but I’m sure that he’s far more acceptable to the voters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 01:36 PM

I wasn't a Corbynite..

I've never been keen on 'cult of personality'..

I recognized his integrity and principles,
but thought a younger leader with less negative baggage
would have been a better long term choice..

I could never join the Labour party,
but will continue defending and voting for them..
as futile as that may be...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 01:27 PM

Just as long as the previous leader doesn’t get back in - y’know, the bloke who led the LP to its worst GE defeat in living memory, how about james callaghan
quote living memory, what utter bolocks.. how about 1983? backwoodsman youare a master of bullshit1979 general election – 5.3% swing from Labour to Conservative
2010 general election – 5.1% swing from Labour to Conservativ
Boris Johnson delivered the biggest electoral win to the Conservatives since Margaret Thatcher in 1987,


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 01:13 PM

Just as long as the previous leader doesn’t get back in - y’know, the bloke who led the LP to its worst GE defeat in living memory. I’m still hoping to live long enough to see a Labour government once more - I’m grown-up enough to realise it may not happen with Starmer in charge, but there’ll be SFA chance if the Party’s lumbered with Corbyn again.

Although, in contradiction of my criticism of Bonzo’s voting choice, I did vote Labour at the GE, even though I had absolutely no faith in the Leader. It’s called ‘Party-Loyalty’ or, put another way, ‘Putting Party Before Personality’.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:52 PM

But knowing our luck, Margaret Hodge may even have seized leadership by then...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:50 PM

Yeah.. but it's a bit like asking which colour of shit
do you want topping your ice cream cornet...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:48 PM

Johnson or Starmer....hmmmmm, that’s a difficult one, innit? Not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 12:08 PM

BWM - errmmm.. we might have our own dilemma with that,
if starmer is still Labour leader by the next elections...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 11:54 AM

That doesn’t absolve him, it damns him even further. Who in their right mind would vote for a dickhead?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 11:29 AM

Give bonz some credit..
he might be a tory, but he's always slagged off dickhead boris...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 11:12 AM

I'm surprised at you Bonzo, I am sure I am not alone in thinking that you voted for his party and thus allowed him to become PM.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 11:08 AM

Almost certainly, the man is an embarrassment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 07:28 AM

Did Johnson's Poor Behaviour Cost Brexit Breakthrough?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 07:25 AM

DMcG's daughter sounds smarter than some of you codgers, at least in polynomial time. Having an answer is not intelligence as much as having the wisdom to know which questions to ask. IQ is second to EQ or QQ in my book. Be that as it may, Steve, eat some Bran. You seem too full of yourself, as usual. :^}

I have steadfast hope that your UK politics are more sensible than American politics. As criminal conspiracies go I think America is #1.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 06:13 AM

It was so arbitrary that there was no general agreement as to when it actually was!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 06:09 AM

'll grab the 500, but it is very selfish of me because I don't have any emotional attachment to round numbers - it is just another number in the integer set...

Reminds me of daughter-of-mine at the millennium sounding off that is was just a completely arbitrary boundary of no inherent significance whatsoever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 05:54 AM

The Russian ones are not trawling for fish though :-)

Someone else can grab 500


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 05:45 AM

Play safe and just torpedo the Russian ones instead, Jos. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 05:43 AM

Your difficulty, Nigel, is that you think "unified" means "one big country." It doesn't. Since well before the referendum I've been arguing for a unified Europe, but one in which I desperately want to have 28 sovereign nations all keeping their distinctive national attributes, operating their own laws and their own form of democracy but with the same ground rules of human rights and the rule of law. 28 nations cooperating for the greater good of all, and among which war is next to impossible. Unified that way, and I'm certain that that is the sentiment in Sir Sam's remark. Naturally, as you are in vehement opposition to his point of view, you will do what Nigel does, try to pick holes. Nice try but no cigar. Not even a fag end, I'd say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Jos
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 05:42 AM

So, what will happen when one of the four warships confronts a Dutch, Spanish or Icelandic fishing boat?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 05:25 AM

An interesting fact apropos of fishing: over half of our fishing quota is now in the hands of the Netherlands, Spain and Iceland, sold off to them by our fishing industry...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 05:22 AM

There is no conflict therein.
So who was fighting for a "free and unified Europe"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 05:19 AM

What you misread, or misinterpreted, was the sentiment in Mendes' comment. There is no conflict therein.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 05:16 AM

Countries the world over have their territorial waters. That is nothing new.

Certainly they do. And there are few disputes because most of them have been in place for many decades or even centuries. The two sides have reached an accommodation that - more or less - works.

Before we joined the the EU (and its predecessor) we had such an accommodation with France and the other countries that fished in the Channel and North Sea. It was not just a case of "its the UK's and no-one else gets a look in."


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 05:13 AM

Sam Mendes is an opponent of Brexit. In 2017, he stated: "I’m afraid that the winds that were blowing before the First World War are blowing again. There was this generation of men fighting then for a free and unified Europe, which we would do well to remember."

Maybe I've misread history. I thought Britain (and allies) were fighting for a 'free' Europe, and Germany were fighting for a 'unified' Europe.
Doubtless an oversimplification, but so was Mendes' comment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Dec 20 - 04:58 AM

I came across this when I was looking up something entirely unconnected on wiki:

Sam Mendes is an opponent of Brexit. In 2017, he stated: "I’m afraid that the winds that were blowing before the First World War are blowing again. There was this generation of men fighting then for a free and unified Europe, which we would do well to remember."

Yep.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 08:28 PM

When we are restricted to just one thread, it's bloody annoying to have a yank who spouts utter shite getting his oar in. Frankly, Donuel, and as ever, you have nothing useful to say. So you know what I might suggest you do. It involves your bottom...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 07:32 PM

Humouring the insane is a dangerous game.
The rules of organized chaos are full of sound and fury signifying
a falsely placed obediance.
As long as you choose law in the short run, remember this,
crazy laws have a life time too and eventually die. Some from old age and some by murder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:53 PM

I hope so too. But can you see the trade deals being as good as the ones we had? And it's not just good trade deals we are swapping for pie in the sky "sovereignty" . We are giving up years of cultural, scientific and policing cooperation. For what? To build closer ties with a now deposed madman on the other side of the Atlantic?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:21 PM

Meanwhile back in the real world.

Countries the world over have their territorial waters. That is nothing new. It is only a small part in the scheme of things but trade agreements are built on small things.

We might well be heading for a no deal exit but no doubt some deals will be made at a later date,at least I hope so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 05:23 PM

I live in a town that used to boast, 50 years ago, a fishing fleet.

It Then employed a very small minority of the people.

Today that fishing fleet has, to all intents and purposes, gone.

Nationally the fishing industry creates 1 tenth of 1 percent of the Gross National Product.

Now I understand for that 1 tenth of 1 percent of the people the industry is VERY important,

However in the great schemes of things, to most people, it barely registers apart from the jingoism that surrounds it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 05:11 PM

Rain Dog. Just because little s***s like Johnson whine that something is illegal, doesn't make it illegal. And if Johnson wants to waste money on Naval patrol, then it must be 100% paid for through a poll tax levied on fishing communities.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 05:09 PM

Add together the fishing sector and the agricultural sector and they add up to less than 1% of our GDP. The denizens of both sectors cheerfully voted overwhelmingly for brexit. Both sectors have been environmental disasters. Vandalistic wouldn't be too strong a word. My sympathies lie solidly elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 02:25 PM

Most of us landlubbers with any sense don't care about fishing disputes..

There are far more important concerns in life to be coping with..


I'd also expect most fish don't give a shit which nation catches them to near extinction...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 02:22 PM

... especially as your opening gambit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 02:20 PM

I am saying threatening sending warships for a trade dispute is not very smart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 01:55 PM

The nonsense continues.

DMcG are you seriously suggesting that the EU should fish in UK waters illegally in the event of a no deal Brexit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 01:04 PM

Apparently the latest wheeze is to allocate 4 naval ships to protect the fishing waters around the UK in the event of a no-deal.

A quick Google search suggests there are 7,300 EU fishing vessels, so I suspect 4 will have a hard time controlling that lot. Then how will they control them? A seizure or sinking will be a massive escalation, and I don't think the EU would just sit quietly by. Much less, and in the context of 7300 is is just a minor irritation. If the EU were to impose any kind of sanction in retaliation for a stronger action, we should remember - since it seems to be so easily forgotten - that the Republic of Ireland is in the EU and Northern Ireland is not, so that would affect the GFA border. And what would Biden think of that?

Silly grandstanding. I hope there are still some wiser heads around to council against such escalation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 01:02 PM

Boris's last minute deadline deal negotiations..

.. and we all thought pantomimes had been cancelled this xmas...


The EU top negotiators thought they were meeting Boris to negotiate a deal..

Boris thought he'd been invited on a hot overnight dinner date with a saucy foreign totty...

We're the only ones who'll end up f@cked...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 12:23 PM

Out of those who did not vote:

(1) People are more likely to take the trouble to vote on a populist outcome than to vote for the status quo. Many people mistakenly assumed that remain would win (even faridge made that assumption when the polls closed) and felt that that did not need to come out on what was foul weather.

(2) Of those who were disenfranchised, the majority (EU nationals living in UK and people who are now under 24) fell within the demographic that overwhelmingly voted remain.

(3) The leave campaign failed to PROMISE ending the right of UK nationals to live/work/study/retire in UK. Faridge lied when he suggested that UK could follow the Norway (EEA/EFTA) model when he knew that the tory party had no intention whatsoever of doing so.

(4) The remain campaign was conducted appallingly by the party leaderships. Labour failed to effectively campaign on a national level, but where Labour campaigned effectively locally, this resulted in 71% vote (in the constituency where I live) to remain. Because Labour were quiet on a national level many associated remain with Cameron and Osbourne who in industrial areas were blamed for austerity.   

(5) The fact based campaign which focussed on the (now proven) impact of leaving was dismissed as project fear, but not a single promise for the leave campaign has come to fruition. Where are all the Turkish people we have been promised????

(6) Substantial leave campaigning focus upon pandering to racists who saw the referendum as a vote for legitimacy of their vile views. eg fariges 'Breaking Point' billboard.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 11:54 AM

His secret identity is boris,
but as an inept super hero, he valiantly fights truth and justice as "Cock-up Man"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 09:56 AM

Johnson is now saying a No-Deal is very very likely.

It is mildly amusing that in The Avengers films one of the characters examine 14,000,065 paths only one of which let to success, whereas Johnson thought there were a million paths only one of which led to failure as he defined it (ie not getting a deal).

Naturally, Johnson found the one he defined as failure.

Somehow, I don't think The Avengers will be be inviting him to join the team.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 09:51 AM

Unwilling to admit that you got it wrong again Steve? Never mind.

Ah yes, and by doing so you would inevitably have prompted the rest of us here to remind you that your "52%" = the far more honest 38% when the whole story is told. You Tory brexiteer-spinners will go to any length to avoid saying that 62% of the electorate/ "voting public" did NOT vote to leave the EU.
I'm quite happy to accept that "62% of the electorate did Not vote to leave the EU"
Of course, the converse is that 65% of the electorate did NOT vote to remain part of the EU!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 07:51 AM

No need fannying about with boring stats and numbers.. it's the will of the british people, remember...

= all of us..

That's far easier for tunnel-visioned brexiteers to push ahead on...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:13 AM

Ah yes, and by doing so you would inevitably have prompted the rest of us here to remind you that your "52%" = the far more honest 38% when the whole story is told. You Tory brexiteer-spinners will go to any length to avoid saying that 62% of the electorate/ "voting public" did NOT vote to leave the EU. And if we mention that embarrassing statistic, all you can do is bleat that it was the democratic will of the people (or something like), sidestepping the fact that the referendum was the single most undemocratic thing that has happened in this country for many a decade, superseded only now by the same blond buffoon who can't even count his own children telling us that we can't, under pain of legal sanction, go to our mums' houses for a cup of tea or sit with them in their care homes...

Incidentally, had I jumped in first with "voting public" (to mean "electorate"), I'd have been beyond reproach. "More than half of those who voted" = honest. "More than half of the voting public" = bare-faced Tory brexiteer spin...

I don't suppose "more than half of the having-voted public" would be elegant enough for you. And I won't even mention the quasi-populist inclusion of "the public" in all this brexiteer-speak...


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 06:07 AM

Well, this is nice:

The former Australian prime minister Malcolm Turnbull says his country’s trade deal with the EU is ‘not one Britain would want, frankly.


Fairly obviously, given they have been trying to negotiate a closer agreement for years. But I imagine No-Dealers will just close their ears.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 05:05 AM

Steve:
I know that you have problems comprehending honest English, but:
As I said Nigel, I am fully capable of processing your meaning. But the way you put it was typical Tory spin. It's perfectly possible to interpret "voting public" as "electorate," and you know it. You could have said "of those who voted," but then, of course, you'd have been forced to give us that more honest but rather thin-looking statistic (38%, right?).
If I had said "Of those who voted" and I would still have said 52%.
It is your attempt to spin the figures which is disingenuous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Dec 20 - 02:54 AM

Recently negotiated new trade deals with countries such as Egypt and Morocco have opened new trade routes that could see goods go straight to and out of Dover and bypass Europe altogether." quote
hilarious are they going to be bringing in cannabis from morrocco


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