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BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

McGrath of Harlow 02 Apr 21 - 09:26 PM
Bill D 02 Apr 21 - 08:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Apr 21 - 08:15 PM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 21 - 07:13 PM
Bonzo3legs 02 Apr 21 - 03:58 PM
SPB-Cooperator 01 Apr 21 - 01:53 PM
Raggytash 01 Apr 21 - 10:20 AM
Rain Dog 31 Mar 21 - 02:43 PM
SPB-Cooperator 31 Mar 21 - 02:27 PM
Dave the Gnome 31 Mar 21 - 01:38 PM
The Sandman 31 Mar 21 - 12:58 PM
Backwoodsman 31 Mar 21 - 05:26 AM
SPB-Cooperator 31 Mar 21 - 03:04 AM
The Sandman 27 Mar 21 - 09:43 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Mar 21 - 09:38 AM
SPB-Cooperator 27 Mar 21 - 08:15 AM
Allan Conn 25 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM
Nigel Parsons 25 Mar 21 - 07:54 AM
Dave the Gnome 25 Mar 21 - 07:48 AM
DMcG 25 Mar 21 - 04:11 AM
Allan Conn 24 Mar 21 - 06:20 PM
DMcG 24 Mar 21 - 05:32 PM
DMcG 24 Mar 21 - 05:30 PM
Rain Dog 23 Mar 21 - 03:43 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Mar 21 - 02:23 PM
Bonzo3legs 23 Mar 21 - 02:08 PM
Dave the Gnome 23 Mar 21 - 12:56 PM
Backwoodsman 23 Mar 21 - 12:32 PM
Nigel Parsons 23 Mar 21 - 12:02 PM
Raggytash 23 Mar 21 - 11:51 AM
Rain Dog 23 Mar 21 - 11:42 AM
Raggytash 23 Mar 21 - 11:05 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Mar 21 - 10:45 AM
Raggytash 23 Mar 21 - 08:32 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Mar 21 - 05:25 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Mar 21 - 05:24 AM
The Sandman 23 Mar 21 - 04:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 23 Mar 21 - 03:27 AM
Nigel Parsons 22 Mar 21 - 05:24 PM
Raggytash 22 Mar 21 - 04:15 PM
Nigel Parsons 22 Mar 21 - 03:38 PM
Raggytash 22 Mar 21 - 02:11 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 21 - 04:52 PM
The Sandman 14 Mar 21 - 03:58 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 21 - 10:55 AM
Raggytash 14 Mar 21 - 10:06 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Mar 21 - 08:31 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Mar 21 - 06:15 PM
Nigel Parsons 09 Mar 21 - 05:57 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Mar 21 - 05:21 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 09:26 PM

Powerful song. Could as well be about survivors from either the Sheffield or the Belgrano. That's true for so many war songs, the best ones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 08:45 PM

No matter one's opinion as to the reason for it all, it gave us a very moving song that says nothing about the politics of it.
Some friends of mine were in a pub in England, when the author, just back from The Falklands, sang it from his handwritten copy. They asked to record it, and he agreed.
Here's the words and tune.
http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/song-midis/Survivor_Leave.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 08:15 PM

When that all blew up lots of people in England were puzzled why Argentina should be claiming a bunch of islands off the coast of Scotland.

Maybe when the Scots go for independence the Westminster government, in the dying days of the United Kingdom, will detach the Shetlands from Scottish control, and set up a swap with Argentina so that the Falklands stay English, and the Shetlands go to Argentina.


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Subject: RE: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 07:13 PM

Look at a bloody map. Those islands belong to Argentina. The war was all about Maggie getting herself re-elected. So what if a few hundred Argie teenagers were slaughtered. We kept those benighted islands so that the UK can support the lives of a couple of thousand spoiled imperialistic brats.


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Subject: BS: Day of the Argentine veterans
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 03:58 PM

Today is the day of the Argentine veterans and fallen of the Falklands war. We stood by the Malvinas Memorial in Buenos Aires on April 2 1998, 2000,2002, 2005, 2007, 2008 & 2011. It was very sad to see the mothers crying for their lost sons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 01:53 PM

With the damage the government has done to exporters, particularly in the fishing industry, I am surprised that they haven't replaced cash welfare benefits with seafood vouchers.

If some people have severe allergic reactions, then that would be a saving on pensions and universal credit. (irony).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 10:20 AM

Yet another, albeit small, side effect of Brexit we were never told about.

A small company in Scotland manufacturing dog chews is to relocate it's operation to France after it became too difficult to obtain ways through the trade barriers now in place.


link


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 02:43 PM

No doubt like so many countries, Spain will miss the income from tourists and expats. Of course certain places here in the UK will also miss the tourists buying Ye Olde Fish & Chips


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 02:27 PM

Irregular noun:

I am an ex-pat.
You are a migrant.
He/she is an illegal immigrant.

I wonder if Spain is going to miss the English pubs and fish and chip shops in Costa Del Pequeña Inglaterra.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 01:38 PM

900!


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 12:58 PM

Today will be the last day that little Englander British migrants will who have refused to integrate into the local communities on mainland Europe and have not applied for or meet 'right to remain' status will be able to legally stay in continental Europe for the next 90 days"
Clarification, read above carefully, this applies to Mainland Europe, not the rep of ireland.
I agree with Backwoodsmans points, however it must not be assumed that all expats voted for brexit


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 05:26 AM

SPB - in the press and meedja, ‘Migrants’ seems only to refer to ‘damn foreigners’ coming into the UK. British people migrating to other countries are, apparently, ‘Ex-Pats’.

Funny how, in the warped minds of flag-wagging, forelock-tugging, grovelling ‘patriots’, ‘migrant’ is a one-way term of abuse, innit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 03:04 AM

Today will be the last day that little Englander British migrants will who have refused to integrate into the local communities on mainland Europe and have not applied for or meet 'right to remain' status will be able to legally stay in continental Europe for the next 90 days.

To mirror what the bigots and xenophobes in the UK have been spouting for the last 5 years, surely the British economy cannot stand a flood of British Migrants returning to the UK and we should be able to cherry-pick those who the state deems 'most useful' and as such those who do not meet the points system as per the new Immigration Act would therefore render themselves stateless and should them have to seek settlement through the asylum process and be treated the same way as other asylum seekers are treated - and with the proposed new draconian rules - sorry, no sympathy from me, particularly as it seems that this group includes the leave voters living overseas.

The only people who I do feel sympathy for are any pro-Europeans who do want to integrate with whichever society they chose to live in - not existing, but those in the future and any European people who wish to integrate into UK society but are considered inferior by the hime office. (Wasn't there a doctrine in Europe in the 1930s and 40s and another up to the 60s in America that looked upon fellow humans as inferior or unworthy?).

It distresses me that I seem to be living in this kind of so-called regressive society which earlier generations fought and laid down their lives to oppose. But at the same time I feel a sense of perverse satisfaction that those who have been hoisted by their own petard are getting their come-uppance.

Here endeth getting my rant out of my system.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 09:43 AM

I would refuse to fight for the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 09:38 AM

"While I have no problem with being patriotic, and by that I mean living in a beautiful, and supposedly outward looking, safe and welcoming country, I despise the evils that are being carried out 'in the name of my country' and the assumption that if I do not stand side by side with these evils, I am somehow not patriotic."

Absolutely spot on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 08:15 AM

I refuse to agree to my local authority being forced to fly the flag as I am not a neo-nazi flag waving rabid nationalist. If any employees for my local authority obey the law, then they need to be ostracised by society.

On a less ironic note, even thought the above does reflect my feelings, my partner lived through the Soviet rule of Czechoslovakia, and families that failed to demonstrate fealty, for example by not flying the soviet flag from their balconies/windows, would be excluded from opportunities in society.

While I have no problem with being patriotic, and by that I mean living in a beautiful, and supposedly outward looking, safe and welcoming country, I despise the evils that are being carried out 'in the name of my country' and the assumption that if I do not stand side by side with these evils, I am somehow not patriotic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM

I don't think the Holyrood Parliament would actually be included in the dictat about flying the union flag. It is UK gvt buildings which the instructions are for. So the likes of The Scotland Office and the new Queen Elizabeth House etc. The Holyrood Parliament is a Scottish Gvt building which fall outside the order.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 07:54 AM

I read about the flags on the front page of today's Telegraph:
The Union flag will be flown from UK government buildings every day after the rules around flag etiquette were rewritten by the Culture Secretary.
New guidance, which will apply from the summer, says all UK government buildings will be asked to fly the flag every day of the year. Currently, union flags are only flown on government buildings on set days.
For buildings with only one flagpole, the guidance says that "the Union Flag should be flown every day except on certain occasions when you may wish to fly other flags", such as the national flags of constituent nations of the UK.


The 'Political Correspondent" (Danielle Sheridan) went on to say:
The Union flag, which was created in its current form in 1801, embodies the emblems of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland
Needless to say I've written a stroppy letter as Wales has no representation on the Union flag. - sloppy reporting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 07:48 AM

Any think that the latest debacle about the EU and vaccine is yet another smokescreen to be added to the ever growing list of lies about the EU?

It's almost as if the brexiteers have realised what a disaster it is turning out to be and are looking for justification for their actions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 04:11 AM

I agree Allan. In a few weeks time either the SNP will have a majority themselves, or be in an alliance with another independence-inclined group.   I do not see them flying the Union Flag over Holyrood. Nor do I see the Westminster Government can do a thing about it without increasing the support of independence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Allan Conn
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 06:20 PM

Not all gvt buildings. Northern Ireland exempt. Not Scotland though. Supposedly to strengthen the union. They really are stupid to a staggering degree. People who are unionists will be OK with the jackery but Yes leaning folk will just be irritated by it. You can't force people's identity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 05:32 PM

sorry, all national *government* buildings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 05:30 PM

New regulations are being introduced, it seems, to fly the Union Flag on all national buildings, with local governments encouraged to do so.

Can singing the national anthem or rule Britannia every morning in school assemblies be far distant?


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 03:43 PM

A lot of tax revenue is going to be lost during this transition phase.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 02:23 PM

”I dread having to prepare the first post brexit VAT return for a client company where all purchases are from France.”

I’m so glad I retired from all that crap nine years ago. But Mrs Backwoodsperson is still working as the Logistics Operations Manager for the UK operation of a world-wide petrochemicals company with numerous processing plants in the EU, and considerable shipping between the UK and the EU, both import and export. She says that, despite the Tory propaganda that publications like the Daily Heil, the Torygraph, and the Deadly Express are trying to spread, the movement of goods between the UK and the EU is still a nightmare, and finding hauliers who are prepared to risk getting delayed by problems at the ports is very difficult. Demurrage on ‘stuck’ shipments has already cost her company a fortune, and there seems to no end to it in the short- to mid-term.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 02:08 PM

I dread having to prepare the first post brexit VAT return for a client company where all purchases are from France.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 12:56 PM

Hey, BWM, at least he admits that there are massive falls! It's a start :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 12:32 PM

Good old Nigel, still trying to polish a turd. And still failing dismally.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 12:02 PM

Well done, Nigel. No spin on those figures. Massive falls in imports and exports. We have yet to be convinced that this is a good thing.
As the DNS link makes clear, those massive falls were for January, and there were several contributory factors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 11:51 AM

Yes Rain Dog, it will make a slight impact on the thousands of people who will lose their job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 11:42 AM

Well it will be a few years before we will be able to tell if we are better off for having left. I remain to be convinced that we will be.

One consequence of leaving is that customs entry clerks are in demand. Companies here in Dover are poaching staff from each other. You could class that as a benefit of leaving.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 11:05 AM

One item specifically mentioned in Nigels link was a drop in the import of medicinal and pharmaceutical products.

That, I suspect, many people would find to be of deep concern.

Yet another failure of the government.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 10:45 AM

Well done, Nigel. No spin on those figures. Massive falls in imports and exports. We have yet to be convinced that this is a good thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 08:32 AM

So Nigel, Imports to the UK have fallen, that would suggest that goods that I want to buy are not readily available.

Yet another failing by the government.

I know this on a personal level as goods I ordered back at the beginning of January are still stuck in the distributors in the EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 05:25 AM

DtG:
Okay, if we're trying to avoid spin maybe we should avoid reading quotes from the Guardian. It hardly ever gives the whole picture.
The January fall in exports to EU was more than matched (in value, if not percentage terms) by a fall of imports from the EU (which they would describe as their exports to us):

Exports of goods, excluding non-monetary gold and other precious metals, fell by £5.3 billion (19.3%) in January 2021, because of a £5.6 billion (40.7%) fall in exports to the EU.

Imports of goods, excluding non-monetary gold and other precious metals, fell by £8.9 billion (21.6%) in January 2021, driven by a £6.6 billion (28.8%) fall in imports from the EU.

from The DNS
They also say: Trade has not been typical in recent months and, because of the practical challenges and temporary factors outlined in Section 3, we would encourage users to apply caution when making short-term comparisons of trade movements.

This makes the point I was making, with no spin applied from either side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 05:24 AM

I have a feeling that my post was left hanging among a bunch of deletions, Dick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 04:45 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 04:52 PM

In this country we don't deal in summary execution by a policeman without trial and conviction in the street, no matter what past offences we've committed. Your reasoning is, frankly, fatally flawed."
who is this directed at


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 03:27 AM

Yes Nigel. It was spin and your first "quote" was not direct was it. You said freight volumes were back to normal. The article said overall freight volumes were back to their normal. You of all people should know that omitting the word "overall" makes a world of difference. Given that they had also reported that Overall figures now show that food and drink exports collapsed in January, plunging overall by 75.5% year on year. Down to £256m from £1bn. then I think it is very fair to say that you were trying to divert attention from that fact. Or, to give it another name, spinning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Mar 21 - 05:24 PM

You may not have noticed, I wasn't spinning it. I was quoting directly from the article that you linked to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Mar 21 - 04:15 PM

Spin it any way you want Nigel but food and drink exports dropped by almost 75%.

Now most of us except that circumstances are different this year but I suspect that few of us realised just how great the impact would be.

The Government, of course, will try to blame Covid or the firms involved for not being up to speed.

In fact they will blame anyone, except themselves of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Mar 21 - 03:38 PM

Of course, the article paints the worst possible picture.
You have to read through to almost the end before you realise they're talking about an apparent 'blip' and that freight volumes were back to their normal levels since the start of February

And that: “A unique combination of factors, including stockpiling last year, Covid lockdowns across Europe and businesses adjusting to our new trading relationship, made it inevitable that exports to the EU would be lower this January than last,” said a spokesperson for the department (DEFRA).


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Mar 21 - 02:11 PM

I seem to recall that Brexiteers maintained that the world would be our oyster once we had left the EU and we would develop vast new markets for our produce.

An article in the press today paints a somewhat different picture with the export of some produce down 98%.

Collapse of some exports


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 04:52 PM

In this country we don't deal in summary execution by a policeman without trial and conviction in the street, no matter what past offences we've committed. Your reasoning is, frankly, fatally flawed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 03:58 PM

i have encountered violent policeman and violent women, but more of the former


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 10:55 AM

There's a video clip of the same incident on the Guardian website. The two officers on the woman were men. Take a look: it's very disturbing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 10:06 AM

The picture is indeed shocking, however, I have met some extremely violent women in my time and as we don't know what preceded this photograph I would not rush to make a judgement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 08:31 AM

I open the Observer digital edition this morning to see a young woman face down on the ground with two police officers on top of her, pinning her down to handcuff her. She was attending what had been a peaceful vigil in honour of Sarah Everard.

For Christ's sake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 06:15 PM

You really shouldn't have needed to be told that, WAV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 05:57 PM

WAV:
There is not a dichotomy between BAME and English.
Someone may be a member of both groups, or of just one, or of neither.


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Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 05:21 PM

Positive discrimination for one group of people is negative discrimination for everyone else, & BAFTA are now discriminating for BAME & against English - content to do their bit in their NATIVE land.


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