BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!

Subject: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 04:38 PM

During the invasion of South Georgia by Argentina, 22 Royal Marines took on an Argentine warship and put it out of action. That required balls, guts and tip top training - none of your so called "woke" Nancy boys there - a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 05:11 PM

Look at a map and then tell me where the Falklands truly belong.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 05:21 PM

Oh, Steve. The people who live on the Falkland Islands don't care where the continental shelf is; they speak English (of a sort) and don't want to belong to Argentina.

Poor old Britain, still dealing with the aftermath of Imperial strategies long overcome by time and events, will probably decide some day soon that the Falklanders should start boning up on their conversational Spanish.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 05:39 PM

Or we could call them Malvinas. I hated the Argentina regime of the time and I hated the Thatcher regime just as much. So look at a map and tell me what your instincts tell you about who the Malvinas should belong to.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 06:13 PM

I think you missed the point!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 06:35 PM

Bonzo, you want to talk about brave Marines. Okay, the Marines were then and still are brave. Point taken.

But I'm afraid many people focus more on the Why than the Who when the Falklands war comes up in conversation. Steve and I both seem to be among those people.

Incidentally, a person can be a brave and effective soldier, Marine or whatever you please without actually possessing testicles. Tip-top training, yes. Intestinal fortitude, also yes. But not balls.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 06:55 PM

I'm no pacifist and am a massive supporter of our armed forces. You can be very brave but still be on the wrong side. That would never be your fault. I always think about the magnificent Bert Trautmann in these conversations...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 09:27 PM

We can presume bonz has never been in the military under fire in a war zone.

My old mate who was sent to the Falklands,
would more likely want to kick old tory armchair warriors in the balls,
than listen to them spouting jingoistic bollocks glorifying his terrifying ordeal...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 01:58 AM

So what you are saying is that the military junta pigs in Argentina, who murdered thousands were right to invade British territory????

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 03:02 AM

An Edinburgh folkie I knew had been in the SBS in the Falklands. Was very badly wounded in a failed attempt at a landing and never recovered physically or mentally enough to work at a real job again or have any lasting relationships. When the 25th anniversary came round, the patriotic hype got him so upset he committed suicide.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 03:16 AM

BTW the only civilian casualties in the war were two women whose house was shelled by the Royal Navy.

The entire Falklands economy is based on export of sheepmeat to the EU, Spain in particular. Which will be impossible after Brexit. They are facing destitution and the British fascist regime has not suggested anything to help them.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: BobL
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 03:18 AM

I think the question boils down to: should the islands have been British territory? Long & complex history behind that.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 04:21 AM

BTW the only civilian casualties in the war were two women whose house was shelled by the Royal Navy
A quick search suggests three civilian deaths from that shelling. And let's call deaths by that name. In common English usage casualties go to A&E, deaths go to the morgue.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Mo the caller
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 04:31 AM

Was the warship mentioned above the one that was outside the exclusion zone? The sailors whose killing we were told to rejoice about?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 05:04 AM

It doesn’t quite work that way. The Belgrano was sunk outside the 200-nautical-mile total exclusion zone around the Falklands.

Exclusion zones are historically declared for the benefit of neutral vessels; during war, under international law, the heading and location of a belligerent naval vessel has no bearing on its status.

In addition, the captain of the Belgrano, Héctor Bonzo, has testified that the attack was legitimate (as did the Argentine government in 1994).

Though the ship was outside the 200-mile exclusion zone, both sides understood that this was no longer the limit of British action — on 23 April a message was passed via the Swiss Embassy in Buenos Aires to the Argentine government, it read:

“In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty’s Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.

From Here

I've also tried to find confirmation that Thatcher said to "Rejoice" about the sinking. I can't find it.
The only references to "Rejoice" was for the re-taking of South Georgia.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 07:22 AM

Some anniversary they're having. Argentina would have given them far better prospects for democracy and economic progress today than being the colonial ghetto of a banana republic.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 10:24 AM

Apart from that, all ofthe Argentines I met during my 7 visits werelovely people.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 10:26 AM

But Britain can't even produce bananas, Jack! That said, your point is well taken.

A casual scan of Wikipedia articles on the Falkland Islands -- this one, on the sovereignty dispute, and related pages linked to it -- shows that whatever benefit Britain ever gained from claiming the Falklands is quickly receding in the rear-view mirror, leaving only the responsibility of honouring the citizenship bestowed on the island group's people in 1983.

Post-Brexit Britain faces many unpleasant options, and dumping the Falklanders might well turn out to be easy in comparison with, for example, letting go of Northern Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 02:18 PM

A casual scan of Wikipedia articles on the Falkland Islands -- this one Which one? Care to give a link?, on the sovereignty dispute, and related pages linked to it -- shows that whatever benefit Britain ever gained from claiming the Falklands is quickly receding in the rear-view mirror, leaving only the responsibility of honouring the citizenship bestowed on the island group's people in 1983.

A benefit to the UK would be a possible reason for keeping the islands British.
But there is no need to find a benefit to the UK. If the islands wish to remain British then that is sufficient. With no necessary benefit to the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 03:06 PM

The islands couldn't give a monkeys what nationality they are..

It's the islanders who stubbornly cling to some kind of abstract British identity...

.. or so we are told...???

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 03:19 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 03:06 PM

The islands couldn't give a monkeys what nationality they are..

It's the islanders who stubbornly cling to some kind of abstract British identity.
Quite true.
If the islanders (or a majority of them) ever decide that they wish to be Argentinian then I'm (fairly) sure that the UK would raise no objections.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: meself
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 03:50 PM

Just wondering: what would be the difference between an 'abstract' and a concrete British identity?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 03:56 PM

Honouring British citizenship costs the Brexit regime nothing. The islanders have no right to move off the islands and if Cummings wants them all to starve there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 04:29 PM

"concrete British identity" = when an extreme Brit nationalist's sense of British identity
is set ossified too extremely thick and hardened in the cavity between the ears...???

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 05:28 PM

That’s what 32 weeks of the hardest training of its kind in the world will do. Forge soldiers who will choose to face impossible odds and give the enemy a hiding. So thankful the Royal Marines Are British. A credit to our nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 05:30 PM

Royal Marines: I say - are you people Argentine scrap metal dealers?
Argentine soldiers: No! We are invaders!
Royal Marines: Very well, you may stay. But tell us if you happen to see any Argentine scrap metal dealers, would you?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 10:01 AM

Nigel Parsons, I did provide a link to the article I referred to, and it works fine for me.

And Britain really can’t afford to grant expensive territorial wishes any more. Those days are done.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 11:31 AM

Bonz - No disagreement about our military personnel being amongst the very best in the world.

What is fair for question though, is the 'need' for keeping the Falklands British...???

.. and for how much longer...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 12:22 PM

The Falklanders need Britain way more than Britain needs the Falkland Islands. But in the aftermath of Brexit, Britain may not be able to provide the guaranteed markets the Falklanders enjoyed through Britain's membership in the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 01:26 PM

pfr - I don't know the answer to why the Falklands are still needed, potential oil perhaps!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 02:44 PM

If there’s any oil out there, Bonzo, it will be cripplingly expensive to exploit, and the Argentines will fight for it with everything they’ve got. At present, I think they are better prepared for a fight than Britain is.

Back in the day, the Falkland Islands provided coaling and victualling facilities for passing naval and merchant vessels, and a respite base for whalers and fishermen working the Antarctic waters. They also supported a signals repeater. With the sheep, that was about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 04:40 PM

"Was the warship mentioned above the one that was outside the exclusion zone? The sailors whose killing we were told to rejoice about?"

During war, under international law, the heading and location of a belligerent naval vessel has no bearing on its status. In addition, the captain of the Belgrano, Hector Bonzo (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), has testified that the attack was legitimate, as did the Argentine government in 1994.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 07:43 PM

The vessel wasn't being belligerent when it was sunk. And 323 Argies, largely young men who probably had no choice other than to be on that ship, and who certainly had little or no interest in politics, were slaughtered on the order of Margaret Thatcher. Comment is free but facts are sacred.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 05:15 AM

Had the Belgrano not been sunk, the almost inevitable naval battle would have resulted in many 1000s of lives lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 05:39 AM

Admiral Enrique Molina Pico, head of the Argentine Navy in the 1990s, wrote in a letter to La Nación, published in the 2 May 2005 edition, that the Belgrano was part of an operation that posed a real threat to the British task force, that it was holding off for tactical reasons, and that being outside of the exclusion zone was unimportant as it was a warship on tactical mission. This is the official position of the Argentine Navy.

It's very interesting that no NATO country offered help in this conflict, no EU country offered help and likewise no Commonwealth country!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 06:10 AM

This thread is nothing more than jingoistic trolling.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 06:31 AM

During the invasion of South Georgia by Argentina, 22 Royal Marines took on an Argentine warship and put it out of action. That required balls, guts and tip top training - none of your so called "woke" Nancy boys there - a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 08:01 AM

The Canadian government of the day had nothing handy to offer, and no time to add water to what little the Canadian Forces might have managed to stir up, even if Britain had asked for help. Back then, everything we had was pointed at the Soviet Union.

And Britain did not ask for help. Pointedly.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 08:15 AM

How do you know?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 08:22 AM

I always believe it’s very important not to let Union-Jack-Underpants Flag-Wavers’ jingoism get in the way of facts in serious matters such as the Falklands War...

Who did the European Community support during the war?

Did the US support the UK during the War

Plenty of answers here...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 09:32 AM

However you look at the Falklands War, 1,000+ deaths, hundreds more wounded and injured, many more suffering life-damaging PTSD, and the loss of millions of pounds-worth of military and civil assets, was a very expensive price to pay for ~1,000 people, who love the U.K. so much they live pretty much as far away as it’s possible to get, to be able to continue to wave their British passports to piss the Argentines off, and to save the political arse of the worst U.K. Prime Minister of the 20th Century.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 10:07 AM

I think it was a conflict rather than a war.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 10:32 AM

However you look at the Falklands War, 1,000+ deaths, hundreds more wounded and injured, many more suffering life-damaging PTSD, and the loss of millions of pounds-worth of military and civil assets, was a very expensive price to pay for ~1,000 people, who love the U.K. so much they live pretty much as far away as it’s possible to get, to be able to continue to wave their British passports to piss the Argentines off, and to save the political arse of the worst U.K. Prime Minister of the 20th Century.

That is one view.
Once the islands had been invaded by Argentina should the UK just have accepted that and allow a change of 'ownership' of the islands?
What international precedents would have been set?
What reason would there be for the Spanish not to attempt annexation of Gibraltar, or the French of the Channel Islands? They would know that the UK would happily stand back and do sod all.
No country would be in any position to oppose large countries taking control of nearby smaller countries, by force.
If we were right to oppose Nazi Germany's forcible expansion in the first half of the century, then we were right to protect the Falklands in the 1980s.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 12:46 PM

You may debate the politics and legalities of it all day.. but for those who were there, concerns were different...

This was written by someone who WAS there. He sang it in a pub in England, and this group heard it and asked to record it.

Survivor Leave

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 05:33 PM

It would also be right to protect them from Fascist Britain now.

I just had a look at the Falklands Islands Government web resources. What you do not see there:

- any sign of democracy; self-determination for the islanders is not remotely on the agenda.

- any sign of meaningful economic benefit from the link to Britain.

- any initiative to maintain economic links with the EU, which has been the mainstay of the islands' economy for a generation.

- any attempt to develop links with Argentina.

The islands are being managed in a Brexiteer style of arrogance and incompetence.

They ARE trying to develop tokenistic links with Chile and Uruguay. Which are so far away with such poor transport links and such poor complementarity of production they will have the same effect as Britain getting its substandard trade deal with New Zealand.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 05:48 PM

Had a very nice day in Uruguay, superb lunch and lovely people!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 06:48 PM

Jack Campin'"
It would also be right to protect them from Fascist Britain now.

I just had a look at the Falklands Islands Government web resources. What you do not see there:
- any sign of democracy; self-determination for the islanders is not remotely on the agenda.
- any sign of meaningful economic benefit from the link to Britain.
- any initiative to maintain economic links with the EU, which has been the mainstay of the islands' economy for a generation.
- any attempt to develop links with Argentina.
The islands are being managed in a Brexiteer style of arrogance and incompetence.

What you "do not see" is no evidence of the presence of the opposite of what you "do not see".

Any argument you are trying to make is without any definite basis.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 08:41 PM

The usual question...

Who profited/profiteered most from the Falklands war...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 09:19 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs - PM
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 06:13 PM

I think you missed the point!!! quote bonzo

No no, I understood your point clearly, it was the point of view, of right wing imperiaistic ideology trolling and a bit of political provocation.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 04:44 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 05:16 AM

Really, look at the islands' website (or rather the one foisted on them by the Westminster regime). They are facing catastrophe from Brexit - much worse damage than anything Galtieri would have done to them 40 years ago - and the Johnson junta is doing nothing serious in response.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 09:07 AM

Bonzo, Charmion might know a thing or two because she had two brothers serving at the time, her elder brother, a reservist artillery captain attending university, her younger brother, a regular artillery captain. She was also close friends of the unit emplaning officer of the Canadian Airborne Regiment and several senior officers. We all talk shop when we get together, the shop being current military operations and history.

I cannot speak for our brother, but I was champing at the bit to go, and would have put my hand up if they'd asked for volunteers. I was a recently qualified forward observation officer serving in 5e Régiment d'artillerie légère du Canada. The officers of 5e Brigade were glued to the news on the telly in the mess at lunch and intelligence summaries were closely examined in every office they went through.

As I recall, the Canadian Forces' Maritime Command backfilled for the UK in STANAVFORLANT. We also supplied the RN with every last fast blooming chaff rocket we had that wasn't already afloat.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 10:20 AM

Bonzo, I might know a thing or two because I am a military veteran who has been plugged into the Canadian Forces RumourNet since Christ was a lance-jack in the Israeli Army and Pontius was a pilot. As a civilian, I worked in the belly of the Canadian security beast off and on (more on than off) for nearly 30 years.

Plus what Brother Andrew said. At the time of the Falklands War (Question for extra credit: When is a war a war, and not a mere "conflict"?), I was frequently a guest in the Senior NCOs' mess of the Canadian Airborne Regiment, which was what we had back then for a quick-reaction force. Noses were glued to the TV and rucksacks were packed and repacked, but nobody received anything resembling a warning order. Our top priority then, after home defence, was the "northern flank" of NATO -- i.e., Norway.

Jack Campin's points, gleaned from the Falkland Islands' own government website, pretty well cover any ground that needs covering now.

As BillD implied but did not say, the war for the Falkland Islands was a tragedy for many of the people involved in it. It takes a lot of digging and stretching to find any discernible benefit to anyone that could not have been achieved through diplomacy -- if either of the parties to the dispute had been willing to do more jaw-jaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 10:44 AM

”As BillD implied but did not say, the war for the Falkland Islands was a tragedy for many of the people involved in it. It takes a lot of digging and stretching to find any discernible benefit to anyone that could not have been achieved through diplomacy -- if either of the parties to the dispute had been willing to do more jaw-jaw.”

Spot on, Charmion, the best post on this thread. The Falklands War (or ‘Conflict’ as the nit-pickers seem to prefer) was an avoidable disaster, and absolutely nothing to celebrate.

As Dick rightly pointed out, this thread was started as ‘the point of view of right-wing imperialistic ideology trolling and a bit of political provocation’.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 10:49 AM

No it wasn't, it was simply demonstrating the wimpy woky youth of today!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 10:58 AM

The OP doth protest too much, methinks.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 12:40 PM

I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Jack. I had a cousin who suffered a similar fate - different war.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 12:55 PM

A decade after the 'war'..
My mate had a sudden flashback panic attack
while we were travelling in a mini bus on a band tour.

Without warning he freaked out and ducked down under the seats.
That's when we realised just how much trauma he'd buried and hidden from us all for so long..

He was back onboard ship under attack from jet bombers..

The only positive from that harrowing experience,
and talking with him afterwards, was bonding us friends all closer together
for the few years later we still kept in touch through music...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 20 - 06:24 PM

The outrage that erupted when the Falklands were invaded was very rapidly turned into an opportunity for Thatcher to do the little-England bit that would assure her of another term. The collateral damage of lives lost were, for her, rather unfortunate, but worth it.

Look at a map and tell me, in all your honesty, where the Malvinas truly belong.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 02:15 AM

Lost cause Mr Shaw!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 03:46 AM

it was simply demonstrating the wimpy woky youth of today!!!

So you were showing how soft the youth of today are by comparing them to a bunch of highly trained soldiers 40 years ago? That doesn't make much sense to me. How did the youth of 1980 compare with the Marines then? Or are the Marines now wimpy and wokey (whatever that means) compared to those of 40 years ago? What point are you trying to make Bonzo? Or are you just, as has been suggested, trying to provoke a reaction?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 04:09 AM

Dave, I’m sure everyone knows the answer to that! I think we’re back to ‘Don’t Feed The Troll’ again...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 06:04 AM

Look at a map and tell me, in all your honesty, where the Malvinas truly belong.
The Falklands belong exactly where they are, and no-one is trying to move them. Who should have control of them is another matter.
Calling them "the Malvinas" is pointless. I somehow doubt that you refer to Paris as "Paree", or Rome as "Roma".

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 07:50 AM

So who do you believe should have control of The Falklands/Las Malvinas, and what is your justification, Nigel?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 07:59 AM

I believe that the islanders should have control of the islands.
If they want to continue as a British Overseas Territory then I have no objection to that. If they wish instead to ally themselves to the closer Argentina, then, again, that is up to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 08:13 AM

I don't think any nation would be advised to accept control by the current Peronist government in Argentina. However, if it meant a cheap deal on dulce de leche and the best beef in the world - that's another matter!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 08:14 AM

It would seem that the territory has been the subject of claim and counter claim for centuries. The history of settlements on the islands is quite interesting.

Link

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 10:16 AM

”I believe that the islanders should have control of the islands.
If they want to continue as a British Overseas Territory then I have no objection to that. If they wish instead to ally themselves to the closer Argentina, then, again, that is up to them.”

That’s one solution which, on the face of it, sounds very reasonable, and I’d agree with you if the Islanders were a genuine indigenous population. But they are not - they are comparatively recent settlers and descendants of settlers and, in the main, they are British - no prize for guessing which of those two they would almost certainly choose!

I think that, in view of the fact that both the U.K. and Argentina have strong, legitimate claims to the Falklands/Las Malvinas archipelago, it would be a matter better settled by the International Court of Justice.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:33 AM

Does trump have his eye on the Falklands as a golf resort...???

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:36 AM

No, pfr, it's not his kind of place. I don't think luxury is a style choice in the Falklands, and the wind would play Hob with his hair.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:41 AM

That’s one solution which, on the face of it, sounds very reasonable, and I’d agree with you if the Islanders were a genuine indigenous population. But they are not - they are comparatively recent settlers and descendants of settlers and, in the main, they are British
Something of a non sequitur there is no 'indigenous population'.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:48 AM

”Something of a non sequitur there is no 'indigenous population'.”

Yes, precisely, you got it! That’s the whole point - only a truly indigenous population should and could have the right to choose. The population of The Falklands/Las Malvinas are effectively squatters - a squatter has no right to choose his landlord.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 11:49 AM

Try again...

”Something of a non sequitur there is no 'indigenous population'.”

Yes, precisely, you got it! That’s the whole point - only a truly indigenous population should and could have the right to choose. The population of The Falklands/Las Malvinas are effectively squatters - a squatter has no right to choose his landlord.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 04:20 PM

So that disposes neatly of most of the ruling classes of America, Australia, New Zealand, England . . . Argentina!
In fact if the diaspora from Africa is taken as fact, no one has any rights anywhere except in a very small part of Africa.

So if no-one has rights to The Falklands then the "squatters" should at least get some say in who gets control of a formerly uninhabited island.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 04:53 PM

At the time, there was joke about this - when the Argentines invaded Port Stanley they saw a lone Royal Marine on a hill, the Argentine commander ordered 50 troops to capture the marine, they were sent over the hill but the next day none had returned.

So the Argentine commander sent 500 troops over the hill, next day one Argentine soldier came running down the hill shouting, its a trap, its a trap - his commander asked him how is it a trap? The soldier said " there are 2 Marines up there!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 05:31 PM

”So that disposes neatly of most of the ruling classes of America, Australia, New Zealand, England . . . Argentina!
In fact if the diaspora from Africa is taken as fact, no one has any rights anywhere except in a very small part of Africa.”

Well even by your standards that’s a stretch Nigel. Still got that nit-obsession then?

Funny how you sidestepped my point that those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina, and unlike the times when the New World, Australasia, etc. were being colonised, there exists today an international court of justice precisely for the purpose of settling legal disputes between countries. It would make far more sense, and would be infinitely more likely to produce an impartial result, if the question of whose claim took precedence was settled by the ICJ, rather than leaving it to the biases of a small group of settlers.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Sep 20 - 08:13 PM

I am of the "what the inhabitants want goes" persuasion.

But the inhabitants cannot possibly have wanted Brexit (they didn't get a vote) and when the Johnson junta's programme really kicks in next year, a lot of Union Jacks are going to get pulled down.

The Falklands are politically unlike most places. Most if the population lives in Stanley, they know each other, and there is no Covid risk to interfere with in-person meetings. Public opinion is Facebook-proof.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 02:43 AM

so we have to tolerate this trolling post from the op that is poltically provocative and uses jingoistic phraseology, with no action from moderators.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: BobL
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 02:58 AM

The population of The Falklands/Las Malvinas are effectively squatters - a squatter has no right to choose his landlord.

Ever heard of squatters' rights?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:07 AM

Indeed I have Bob. But they don’t include the right to make a legal determination on which of two claimants should be the owners and administrators of the property the squatter is squatting in.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, of course...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:06 AM

Thinking up legal excuses based on abstract "rights" for evicting people who have lived in the same place for their entire lives, or for generations, is the sort of shit that white America used to justify the Native American genocide and what the Zionists are doing to Palestine.

The people of the Falklands get to tell Argentina to fuck off if they want. Just like the people of Scotland get to tell Britain to fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:42 AM

Funny how you sidestepped my point that those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina, and unlike the times when the New World, Australasia, etc. were being colonised, there exists today an international court of justice precisely for the purpose of settling legal disputes between countries. It would make far more sense, and would be infinitely more likely to produce an impartial result, if the question of whose claim took precedence was settled by the ICJ, rather than leaving it to the biases of a small group of settlers.

If Argentina had thought they could overthrow the status quo by an appeal to the ICJ they would have taken that route, rather than attempt an armed take-over. I would presume that an armed invasion to try to overthrow the established (since 1833) position would do nothing to make any subsequent appeal to the ICJ seem more reasonable.

And I don't sidestep your point that "those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina". I treat it with the disdain it deserves. The Falklands are not 'uninhabited'.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:47 AM

Hmmmm, your career in the Diplomatic Corps didn’t last long then, Jack? ;-)

Nobody’s ‘thinking up legal excuses based on abstract “rights” for evicting people’ here - ideas are being thrown out for solving the very difficult and important question of the resolution of the ‘ownership’ claims of Argentina and the U.K. over The Falklands/Las Malvinas, a resolution that would stand the test of legality in international court, would preserve the security of the population, and would not result in the loss of more lives on top of the thousand or so lost in 1982.

Argentinian belligerence failed to bring a lasting solution last time, why on earth do you believe that belligerence on the part of the Islanders and/or the UK would bring a better result now? All it would achieve would be the hardening of attitudes on both sides, and drag the dispute on even further.

I seldom quote Churchill, but he was spot-on with his comment about “Jaw-jaw is always better than war-war”.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:51 AM

Jack Campin
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:06 AM
Thinking up legal excuses based on abstract "rights" for evicting people who have lived in the same place for their entire lives, or for generations, is the sort of shit that white America used to justify the Native American genocide and what the Zionists are doing to Palestine.
The people of the Falklands get to tell Argentina to fuck off if they want. Just like the people of Scotland get to tell Britain to fuck off.

Not quite how I would have phrased it, but Yes!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:54 AM

”And I don't sidestep your point that "those uninhabited islands are the subject of legal claims to ownership by the UK and Argentina". I treat it with the disdain it deserves. The Falklands are not 'uninhabited'.”

Unfortunately, in quoting you, I missed the important word ‘formerly’ - apologies for the mis-quote.

But the point still stands, regardless of your misplaced disdain.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 04:55 AM

The Falkland Islands number 778 and MOST of them are uninhabited.

Two can play at being bloody pedantic.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 05:06 AM

The Falkland Islands number 778 and MOST of them are uninhabited.
Two can play at being bloody pedantic.

Yes, but (generally) when referring to "The Falkland Islands" one is referring to the islands as a group, and the group is inhabited.

The British Isles are also inhabited, although some of the individual islands are not. The fact that some of the islands are uninhabited would not lead anyone to claim that "The British Isles are uninhabited".

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 05:43 AM

Just playing silly buggers as you frequently do Nigel ! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 06:01 AM

During the invasion of South Georgia by Argentina, 22 Royal Marines took on an Argentine warship and put it out of action. That required balls, guts and tip top training - none of your so called "woke" Nancy boys there - a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 07:22 AM

Same post three times, flame-baiting

or complete lack of intelligence

or both.

I would suggest the latter.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 07:30 AM

I think Bonzo wants us to clap and cheer for the Marines, and chuck shade at a Young People Today.

I *like* today’s young people, who pay the taxes that fund my pension. I’m quite happy to buy a drink for any Leatherneck who strolls into my grid square, but that’s all.

And “biffing” — WTF? That’s straight out of the Boys’ Own Paper, and not at all appropriate for such a topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: meself
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 11:49 AM

Naaa - he wants us to sputter and fume and express outrage at his cartoonish rant. As my old father would have said: "People like him give war a bad name!"

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 11:53 AM

Too many lives were sacrificed for The Falklands.
It was a nasty little war, fought for squalid political reasons..

Our brave military personnel did their job well,
and deserve respect.
But their government leaders didn't, and still don't...

I might have a little less disrespect for bonz's provocative jingoistic gloating,
if he'd been there in person soldering,
rather than sat comfy back in dear old blighty watching it on his telly...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: keberoxu
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 12:14 PM

There's a lyrics-added thread for an original song by Martin Carthy
titled Company Policy, which mentions
"a South Atlantic Company Store."

Presumably, a song that would be
neither written, nor sung, by someone
cheering on the Royal Marines?

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:26 PM

Sorry Charmion, a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:40 PM

No, Bonzo. That word proves you do not understand what happened there.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 01:47 PM

"soldering..."..???...

..errrmm.. and even less disrespect if bonz'd been there soldiering...

..obviously, no disrespect to electricians...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:02 PM

...or pipefitters.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:12 PM

During my time in the service, the verb "to biff" someone was "to buddy-fuck" them; in other words, it is to screw your mates figuratively. It is the sort of term that, if used other than in jest, could be construed in certain contexts as "provoking speeches" and punishable under the Code of Service Discipline.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 03:41 PM

Well I was never in the service and I say that the Royal Marines gave them a good biffing.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 06:15 PM

Biffing means exposing to slaughter hundreds of young conscripts, drafted in by a vicious dictatorship, young lads who had no choices. Biffing could well be the most revolting euphemism ever invented.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 23 Sep 20 - 09:59 PM

Yay Steve! What you said!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Sep 20 - 07:57 AM

Possibly!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: peteglasgow
Date: 25 Sep 20 - 08:46 AM

i'm really sick of this jingoistic, flag waving, tory war nonsense - i see the front of the sun today is on about the wars - glorious poppies. wonderful johnson. and all that. again. remembrance in september - no doubt the poppy shaming starts now. my opinion is the only way to remember war and to properly respect all the victims (inluding, bonzo, the 'woke' and the 'nancy boys and everyone else) is to talk about peace and never again. but they won't ever 'give peace a chance- just a dream some of us had' many folk love war and need to preserve capitalism and a thoroughly disgusting capitalist system

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 20 - 01:37 PM

Well I'm not, if it's all the same to you!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 07:35 AM

I'm still no wiser as to what the actions of professional soldiers 40 years ago has to do with the youth of today.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 10:12 AM

Bonzo, surely you have figured out by now that it's not "all the same" to many people, and every one of them who has posted in this thread has demonstrated a wider knowledge and better understanding of the issues and events than you have.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 10:28 AM

Have you ever been to Argentina Charmion? - I have many times. Do you know any Argentines? I do so I think that I am slightly better informed than you.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 10:45 AM

Bonz - You might be better informed on dinner parties and intercourse with 'Argies';
but that is nowhere near the same as killing them..

No matter how excited you get carried away with violent passion of the Tango..

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 11:01 AM

Aha the Tango, in Calle Florida BA the male dancers take greasy hair into another dimension!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 02:12 PM

You may well know Argentina, Bonzo, but it is blatantly obvious you know nowt about the military, today's youth or how to compare the two. Sadly you started this thread about that very poor comparison and not Argentina. Maybe you should start one about a subject you actually understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 02:31 PM

Spot on, Dave.

‘Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 02:45 PM

Fuck you, I'll say just what I like!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 03:29 PM

So, we find the true Bonzo at last :-) You are quite right of course. You should be allowed to say what you want. Just like we should be allowed to show up what you say as the nonsensical jingoistic bollocks it really is

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 03:37 PM

The war that ended the military dictatorship in the Argentine, and cemented into power Margarett destructive regime for a generation. Which country had the better outcome from the war?

What has always stuck in my throat is the hypocrisy of it. Two sets of islands at the other endof the world, the Falklands in the South Atlantic and the Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean. Both controlled by Britain, aquired by the dubious procedure of landing there and declaring they owned the place. Squatted.

About 1000 people living in the Chagos Islands, on Diego Garcia. About 3000 in the Falklands.

In 1968 the British started to arrange to trade the islands to the USA as tenants so that they could turn Diego Garcia into an airbase. The inhabitants were duly rounded up and transported to a far away strange island, Mauritius, with which they had no connection.Their dogs just got shot. And the islanders never been allowed to return home, and repeated findings by courts that they had the right to do so have been cleverlly evaded by the UK government.

But when the Argentine regime decided to shortcut its longstanding ambition to reclaim the Falklands/Malvinas, after years of negotiation by just moving in (having been given what looked like a strong hint that the British would be OK about that, by the way they have just withdrawn naval support from the Falklands) the fate of these islanders was seen as a sacred duty. No shipping them off to St Helena to live in poverty.

The difference? The Falkland Islanders are White. There are potential minerals and oil in the seas around the Falklands. Argentina is a much poorer country than the USA and wasn't offering to pay. And a timely Patriotic War was a gamble worth taking to get a patriotic people on side and stave off a possible regime change (which was what the Generals also had in mind.)

i'd say the last of those was the crucial one. Together with the first.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 04:39 PM

Good post, Kevin.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 08:23 PM

The Falklands conflict lasted for 10 weeks, 2 April – 14 June 1982, so there are nearly two years to go before the 40th anniversary.
I hope this 'celebration' is not going to carry on for two years.

I remember it well as my cousin's new husband was on his way home on his final tour of duty on HMS Glamorgan, before starting a shore job as a newly married man. On their way home they received orders to divert to join the Task Force en route to the Falklands.
We heard on the news that the conflict was over, the day before we heard he had been killed.

All triumphalism is misplaced.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Sep 20 - 11:01 PM

I am reminded of this Phil Ochs song...

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Raggytash
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 04:57 AM

There is a truly wonderful song from Winter Wilson about the battle for Tumbledown Mountain it epitomises the futility of it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJGMT95QeZs

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 05:09 AM

My friend’s brother, who served aboard one of the Type 21 Frigates (I forget which one) says that anyone who thinks the Falklands War was a ‘wizard wheeze’, or that the Argentinian forces were a ‘pushover’ obviously wasn’t there.

And why on Earth a fool is celebrating an event which resulted in the unnecessary deaths of ~1,000 young men is completely beyond my comprehension.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 06:29 AM

That’s the only possible explanation, Dick.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 08:36 AM

From Merriam-Webster's:

Definition of chicken hawk

1 : a hawk that preys or is believed to prey on chickens
2 disparaging : a person who strongly supports or promotes a war or warlike policies but who has never served in the military

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: meself
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 01:07 PM

With all due respect to Mirriam-Webster, I believe they've missed the mark slightly, but significantly, with their second definition of 'chicken hawk': the point of the personage in question being called 'chicken' is not that they haven't served in the military, but that they deliberately avoided serving when 'their country called'. So, for example, it would be inaccurate to call Obama a 'chicken hawk', while appropriate to call the bone-spur-ridden trump, in his more hawkish moments, a 'chicken hawk'.

Now back to our regular program.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 02:01 PM

I've heard the term used to describe both types. Your nitpickery adds nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 02:06 PM

The first figurative use I learned for “chicken hawk” was “pederast”.

The political sense, that of a warmonger eager to make other people serve their country, I associate with the later years of the Vietnam War, especially with respect to draft boards.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: meself
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 02:46 PM

I feel that my nitpickery adds understanding of the use and misuse of the term 'chicken hawk', thank you. You are free, of course, to add to your dissent.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 03:08 PM

I'll go with M-W and my own experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 03:21 PM

During the invasion of South Georgia by Argentina, 22 Royal Marines took on an Argentine warship and put it out of action. That required balls, guts and tip top training - none of your so called "woke" Nancy boys there - a biffing was required and a biffing was done !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 03:45 PM

See post of 27 Sep 20 - 03:21 PM. for a prime example of chicken hawkism. Thank you, Bonz.

See also, the posts of:
20 Sep 20 - 06:31 AM;
23 Sep 20 - 06:01 AM;

and the opening post of:
17 Sep 20 - 04:38 PM;

which are word for word, the same.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Noreen
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 03:49 PM

See post of 27 Sep 20 - 03:21 PM. for a prime example of a straw man, as well as chicken hawkism.

Subject: RE: BS: Almost 40 years since Falklands War!
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 27 Sep 20 - 07:17 PM

Bonzo does not appear to understand that the mettle that was present in our parents' generation, was present in ours who went to the Falklands, present in those who went to Iraq, and is still present in those who carry on with operations in Afghanistan. The proportion of "Nancy boys" is likely about the same now as it was 40 years ago when I was training soldiers. In countries like ours with all-volunteer armed forces, the suitable choose to join and the less than suitable (at least those with a modicum of self-knowledge) do not--and that's a good thing. It avoids wasting money on Queen's hard bargains.