BS: Hunting Deer

Subject: BS: Hunting Deer
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 08:05 AM

Max, likes to hunt deer and is according to facebook using a cross bow instead of a rifle. quote
Been hunting deer for 36 years. Tomorrow, though, will be my first time doing so with something other than a rifle. Pennsylvania archery season with a crossbow.

Subject: RE: BS: Huntig Deer
From: sciencegeek
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 08:44 AM

archery starts the hunting before gun season so that the deer are still behaving normally... once gun season starts the deer alter their behavior and are harder to predict...

the one thing you can rely on is that over population in deer is bad for them and their environment, not to mention the increase in car-deer collisions which is not good for either party.

Subject: RE: BS: Huntig Deer
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 09:50 AM

I have nothing against hunting for food and admire those who can do it. I am not sure if I could but would be happier eating meat that had been killed humanely in the wild to meat that had been factory farmed.

Subject: RE: BS: Huntig Deer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 09:57 AM

Pretty much my take too, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Huntig Deer
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 11:01 AM

I would love to bow-hunt for meat. Love venison.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 03:20 PM

There are some interesting philosophical discussions and related studies about hunting, whether rifle or bow, that look at social behavior and cultural attitudes about hunting. And in some of the American Indian cultures there are important calendars and ceremonies to do with hunting and with preserving the population of the hunted animals.

And then there are writers like William Faulkner who gave a lot of thought and plot development to hunting. It's a fascinating topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 03:23 PM

i have hunted and snared rabbits, and other game including pheasant , i was once the only asparagus poacher in suffolk , but owing to gout asparagus poaching is a no no.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 03:39 PM

I like venison but it's dead dear...

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Oct 20 - 06:11 PM

Where I grew up in Wisconsin, deer hunting was a religion. During hunting season, northbound traffic on the U.S. 41 would be bumper-to-bumper every Friday night. On Sunday, the cars going south would be bumper-to-bumper, often with deer carcasses tied to the roof of the car.

Here in the Sierra Foothills of California, I'll often find as many as 8 big deer in my yard. It's a bit daunting to walk through them on my way from the garage to the house in the dark. I've learned to carry a flashlight. Deer kill more Californians every year, than mountain lions do.

As far as I know, deer hunting is not allowed in this part of California. If I could hunt in my yard, I'd never have to pay for meat.

-Joe-

Oh, Dem Deer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbCgXn2kS0

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 11:24 AM

I went this season for the first time in ten years. Filled one tag (four guys - one tag). Might go for more... tho I doubt it. My health is still poor. I find that those opposed to hunting do not fully understand it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 11:40 AM

No I don't understand the killing of defenceless animals.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 11:48 AM

Venison is delicious - my neighbor's son used to bring up sausage he had made every year after hunting. She didn't like so she'd pass it over to me; she moved away a couple of years ago. It can't be sold (unless it was left with the butcher and not picked up) so I need to cultivate a trade relationship with one of my friends who hunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 12:16 PM

Bonzo, I feel exactly the same. To watch beautiful animals in their natural habitat and try to kill them is something I find shocking.
Alright, before everyone piles in, yes I eat meat. But killing wild, free creatures for 'fun', no.
That tame deer BamBam in our village is so elegant with his delicate legs and long neck, I couldn't imagine anyone finding pleasure in 'bagging' him.
And yet many years ago a colleague used to go shooting and give me any game he and his wife didn't want. I've skinned rabbits and plucked & drawn pheasants and pigeons. Mea culpa.
There seems to be a widespread tradition of hunting in the USA. Here too, plus fishing (ie getting a poor fish to put its mouth onto a cruel hook, just for the 'fun' of pulling it out of the water)
Makes me shudder.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 12:18 PM

When we holiday on the Isle of Eigg, we always make sure to stock up at the only shop on the island with venison steaks and sausages from deer shot on the neighbouring island of Rum.

Delicious!

Shooting for food I can live with. Shooting a creature for ‘fun’ or for trophies, appalls me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Raedwulf
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 12:35 PM

Alas, in the UK, bowhunting (whether with a proper bow or one of those things banned by a Pope; about the only thing any of them ever got right! :p ) is banned. Allegedly, bowhunting is 'cruel'. But... Robert Hardy (yes, the actor, of All Creatures Great & Small fame) was an expert on the subject of the longbow & wrote a book on the subject. Which, naturally, I can't find right now, so I'll do my best from memory.

He had a Danish friend, a Count Ahlefeldt (I think I have the name right), who was a big game hunter (different age, don't snark!) with both longbow & rifle. He reckoned that the longbow was more humane. If you shoot a large* animal with an arrow, either it dies or survives, for the most part. If the arrow penetrates something vital, it might take a while to die; hardly worse than the fate of the average gnu / wildebeest / whatever dragged down by predators. Which is not an instant death. If it doesn't, it either bounces off bone, or falls out & the wound has a chance to heal.

But if you hit something with a bullet & it doesn't die, and you don't have the chance to coup de grace**... A bullet can easily hit bone & cripple. A bullet, by hydrostatic shock (I think I've remembered the correct term) will do a good deal of internal soft tissue damage (bullet - small entrance wound, *big* exit wound) which is often either a slow, painful death, or a slow, painful recovery if something else doesn't get you first. Yet, in the UK, bowhunting is illegal because it is perceived as being more cruel. I am not attempting to make a case that bowhunting shouldn't be; just offering something to think about to anyone reading who doesn't know much about the subject. Gnu - I'm opposed to hunting with hounds (UK definition) & trophy hunting (much the same thing, at root). Do I pass muster? ;-)

*Small game, such as birds, rabbits, etc, you hunt with blunts - concussion kills them if you hit, and a sharp will almost certainly penetrate the digestive system & spoil the carcass. So you hit & they die, or you miss.

** Rifle or bow, Ahlefeldt always carried a sidearm so that he could coup de grace if need be.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 12:39 PM

"To watch beautiful animals in their natural habitat and try to kill them is something I find shocking"

Absolutely, clearly usaians have nothing better to do than play with guns.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Senoufou
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 01:26 PM

Trying to be fair-minded, I must add that there is in UK a massive over-population of all kinds of deer. (roe, fallow, muntjac and red for example) and every year there should apparently be a cull. If not, the numbers get ridiculous and there's damage to forests (tree bark and saplings get nibbled and eaten) and the deer themselves are left hungry. Also, here in Norfolk the deer have ticks which give rise to Lyme's disease if they bite a human (I was bitten once, a typical 'bullseye' mark, but had emergency antibiotics which swiftly dealt with it.)
When I lived in Glasgow, there was a restaurant there (near Byres Road I think) called The Ubiquitous Chip. They served a delicious venison casserole, which I indulged in many times. Very strong-flavoured and a bit tough but I adored it. I expect this was the meat of the red deer.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: gnu
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 02:38 PM

Raedwulf... "Gnu - I'm opposed to hunting with hounds (UK definition) & trophy hunting (much the same thing, at root). Do I pass muster? ;-)" On those points, I agree.

I shall take my leave now. I know too much. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 02:58 PM

It may seem cruel to go out hunting Bambi, but in the US, the deer herds are usually far overpopulated. The mountain lions eat a lot of them here in my neighborhood, but there still are far too many deer. And where there are deer, there are deer ticks.
I think if people want to harvest meat from an overpopulated species, I won't complain - although I don't have the stomach to go hunting myself.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: EBarnacle
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 05:14 PM

What is the deer population looking like on the Left Coast as the fires begin to recede?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 09:27 PM

I wouldn't have guessed Senoufou and Bonzo were vegetarians or vegans.
I never wanted to hunt, but a lot of people around here do, and the guy who replaced my well pump gave me some venison. I figured a while ago I was an omnivore. I don't eat much meat, but I do eat it. I figure it's part of being human. We don't feed our dogs and cats plants only (as far as I know).

I think vegans are probably healthier than those of us who eat meat, but the one time I decided to be vegetarian, I was around 15 years old. it was the week before Thanksgiving, and you can guess how longTHAT lasted.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 20 - 11:34 PM

The prospect of deer dying slowly of starvation and disease is far more appalling that hunting for meat and thinning the population.

You'd think humans never ate meat before the modern age, the way some people respond to hunting.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 02:48 AM

well trying to see both points of view here,
animals on occasions have to be controlled , but on the other hand if an animal is shot and wounded and gets away it can suffer unnecessarily and suffers unintended but unneccesary cruelty.
when i snared rabbits, i checked the snares 3 times a day ,i do not remember s a single rabbit escaping, or suffering for a long time, they were killed with a blow to the back of the neck.there are various arguments here ,
are factory farmed animals killed humanely?, are reared animals killed humanely? factory farmed animal;s may be killed humanely but not reared humanely? idelly if one is not a vegtarian, i as a meat eater would prefer animals to be reared and killed humanely, or wild anilmals not to suffer unnecessarily, arguably, a good marksman can kill instantly
i find bonzos outlook interesting he does not like defenceless animals to be killed but would be happy that defenceless asylum seekers be sent to ascension island

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: BobL
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 03:18 AM

What is the deer population looking like on the Left Coast as the fires begin to recede?

Roasted (sorry).

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Charmion
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 10:15 AM

If we don't want to hunt (and eat) deer, we must be prepared to live with wolves and/or cougars, who will do it for us. The alternative is too many deer for their habitat to support, leading to crop damage and deer colliding with vehicles on highways.

In Europe, forest management is as much about the wildlife as the trees. I lived in a rural part of Germany, where the Forestmeister and his employer, the owner of the local hunting right (Revier), were important people. If you wanted to hunt, you not only had to join the hunting club, you also had to help maintain the forest, which meant cutting brush, hauling out fallen trees, clearing ditches, and feeding the deer in winter. I remember seeing groups of nicely dressed weekend hunters hard at work with hatchets and brush-hooks while the Forestmeister leaned on a tree and supervised.

When one of the big red deer was struck by a vehicle -- or charged a vehicle, as they sometimes did -- the result was usually a pyrrhic victory for the vehicle: the deer would be dead, but even a truck would be an unsalvageable wreck. The Revier-owner and the Forestmeister would promptly claim the deer, dress it, and sell the carcass for meat if at all possible. (A big gasthaus in the village was called Zum Hirsch for good reason.) The driver would be lucky to walk away from such a collision, and could well face charges for failing to watch for predictable hazards.

Personally, I like venison, especially stewed or as the non-pork content of a tourtiere. I am grateful to those with the patience to stalk the creatures, shoot them accurately, haul them out of the bush, and dress and butcher the meat. I would happily pay for that work, but selling wild game is illegal in Ontario.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 10:36 AM

Alright, before everyone piles in, yes I eat meat. But killing wild, free creatures for 'fun', no.

Eliza. I agree that killing for "fun" is wrong but killing wild, free creatures for meat is, to me, preferable to breeding animals in captivity just to take away their offspring and slaughter them. Yes, I also eat meat bought from the butchers but neither Max nor anyone else on here had said they kill for "fun". As far as I can see there is no reason to suggest that they do.

Bonzo. Are you vegan?

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 10:47 AM

I watched the TV show "The Last Alaskans" one day, and a woman went hunting for a caribou. She got one, dressed and butchered it, and carried it out in a back-pack. Personally, I'll stick to buying bits of animals in grocery stores.
I've never heard of a hunter killing deer "for fun". Also, any decent hunter will follow an animal they've wounded.

You know what strikes me as odd? (sarcasm ahead) Mudcat's been around for 23 years and not once has this subject come up. (It has, but it was in one of the numerous gun threads. It still works as good to "get sumpthin' started" as politics.)

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 11:33 AM

This subject was raised some time ago which much the same input.

As a meat eater I have no problem with killing animals for food but I seem to recall one poster at the time seemed to do it for "fun"

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 12:14 PM

I think they can do it to get the meat, AND enjoy the process. Hanging out in a cabin with bros, running around in the woods, and trying to out-think the deer. I remember Max going on these hunting trips every year in the past. I don't know that he ever managed to kill anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 12:37 PM

If he can combine business and pleasure, good luck to him :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 12:37 PM

It is like our fishing trips as well, whether we caught anything, it was the getting up before dawn to be ready at first light, the bouillon in the thermos (the only time I would drink it, and it still reminds me of sitting in the boat on a cold morning). We kept what we caught if it was an edible and legal fish, this was before the days of catch-and-release fishing.

Dad took us fishing, even though when we were with him it was usually one of the kids that caught the biggest fish. He'd go back over the area again and again to see if there were any more, and we never caught another big one that way, but just as he was patient with us doing the catching, we were patient with his trying the same spot again. It's part of the process.

He would have taken us hunting when we were old enough, except that he badly injured his knee one year and the doctor told him he probably ought to stop that activity, and he did.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 01:08 PM

The only time I ever caught any fish was off the rocks at Haverigg, where we have just come back from! It was on one of our early visits there so well over 30 years ago and I caught 2 flatfish, possibly dabs, which we ate that evening. It is just down the coast from Sellafield but as they didn't glow we were happy :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 02:02 PM

"Hunting Deer"

Aaawww.. My mind pictured packs of ferocious merciless Bambis
hunting down and savagely goring to death,
any victim foolishly straying into their territory..

Their instincts to kill trained and honed by warriors,
for unleashing in battle against enemy tribes...

Now, while it's possible my ancestors hunted and warred with killer deer,
long ago in the magical realm of Scrumpyshire;
it's also plausible any such complete bollocks myths originated
as a result of too many magic mushrooms infused in cider...???

Though, for certain a significant proportion of American youth
could easily believe social media suggesting
that's the sort of thing we get up to
in far away ye olde Enchanted Europe...

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 20 - 04:55 PM

It is actually a well known misunderstanding. I have a model railway that is just 3 lines, end to end, not a loop. I spend ages just moving the models backwards and forwards. I always let the Mrs know when I go to play though.

"I'm going shunting, dear"

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Oct 20 - 05:28 AM

I thought deer hunting was fun back in my younger days. I learned how to track, shoot and dress my kill from uncles and older cousins up in the Alleghenies of western Pennsylvania. I loved walking through the woods or sitting in a blind drinking coffee on a chill fall morning, joshing with my cousins, lining up a deer for a clean kill shot while trying stay composed, visiting with family in the area and dropping off venison and then stopping for a drink or three after. The butchery was not my favorite part and I liked venison steaks and sausage but I much preferred a good beefsteak back when I used to eat that stuff. The whole experience was mostly a lot of fun. The last time I went hunting was more than 30 years ago in the Texas hill country. We had been culling a herd of the smallish deer that live up there on a friend's acreage. On my last trip I found I just couldn't raise my rifle any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Oct 20 - 05:02 PM

Deer are plentiful enough around here that I could easily kill one without leaving my own property. I'm just to damned decrepit to track a wounded animal through the woods and drag it home.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Oct 20 - 05:44 PM

EBarnacle asks: "What is the deer population looking like on the Left Coast as the fires begin to recede?"

Some die, but most seem to survive and then have to compete for fewer food sources - so they go into urban gardens and bring deer ticks. Deer are highly mobile, and usually have no trouble fleeing disasters.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Oct 20 - 08:36 PM

I remember when I once was in Colorado. It was illegal to shoot deer, and I would get home from the class I was in, and deer would be roaming around on the lawns. They darn near mugged people for treats. I guess people had been feeding them. Whatever the reasons, they were plentiful, and not the least bit afraid of humans.

They used to show up in my back yard in the winter. I think they laid down there, and waited for darkness, to go across the street and get drunk on the fermented ground fall apples. I haven't seen any for a few years. A lot of folks have cut down trees, so the deer don't get as close to humans.

Turkeys, are still all over the place, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Oct 20 - 01:42 AM

My daughter tells stories of the tame deer in parks in Japan that will steal food if you're not careful, and they're sometimes aggressive. One got the best of her early on in her time there and stole her hot baked sweet potato (vendors sell them in the parks). There is other interesting wildlife as well. It is interesting having a Messenger conversation and she turns the camera so you can see a monkey at the side of the road. "They're assholes," she tells me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Oct 20 - 03:55 AM

here in Australia's largest city, a couple of km from the CBD - feral deer run thru inner Sydney

feral deer live on Sydney's outskirts, at least 30 km from inner Sydney!

Subject: RE: BS: Hunting Deer
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Oct 20 - 12:13 PM

"According to the International Hunter Education Association, in an average year, fewer than 1,000 people in the United States and Canada are accidentally shot by hunters, and of these, fewer than 75 are fatalities."

=============
Years ago I briefly dated a guy who "hunted" with buddies in Wisconsin. They had a cabin, and they put (illegal) salt blocks outside it to attract deer. Then they stayed inside, drank, and shot at deer through the windows. They were the kind of hunters who inspire contempt.

Another kind shoots the farmer's dog "because it keeps the deer away." There were other stories, but I don't remember them now. In short, farmers and motel owners do not look kindly on hunters.

My brother and some friends once went to Wyoming to hunt elk, and they made the mistake of bagging one. Suddenly they realized what hard work it was going to be hauling that heavy carcass back to camp. My father said, "I don't think he'll ever do that again." (He didn't.)

My view is that if a hunter stays sober and gets his deer with a clean shot so that it doesn't suffer, then I guess it's all right. I know that there are more deer in the woods than the woods can support. I have doubts about hunting other, more rare animals, especially animals that don't provide food.