BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM

Thanks henryp, I found last weeks very interesting

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 04:43 AM

Wednesday 20 Jan 11.00am BBC Radio 4
How the Irish Shaped Britain 2/3 McAlpine's Fusiliers

Monday 25 Jan 8.00pm BBC Radio 4
Wednesday 27 Jan 11.00am BBC Radio 4
How the Irish Shaped Britain 3/3 The Long Road to Peace

Fergal Keane completes his exploration of the profound influence of the Irish on Britain, from reconstruction after the Second World War, through the hard road to peace and onto the uncertainty posed by Brexit.
Following in the footsteps of earlier generations of migrants, hundreds of thousands of Irish came to Britain in the 20th Century, rebuilding shattered cities, putting in new infrastructure, working in the NHS. Some faced hardship and racist abuse, particularly during the difficult times of IRA bombs on the British mainland. Others flourished, bringing innovation and rebellion, shaping the music scene and politics.
The Good Friday Agreement heralded a time of hope and good relations across the Irish Sea, with the Queen's first ever visit to Ireland as a potent symbol of that. Meanwhile many of the Irish and their descendants in Britain put a difficult past behind them and looked to the future. Derogatory Paddy jokes fell out of favour. However, the UK's decision to leave the European Union has, as Fergal hears, unsettled what many thought was settled. Following the hard road to peace, uncertainty has returned.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 10:46 AM

intersting that Oliver Cromwell was of irish extraction

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 04:28 PM

Fergal Keane: My family and the empire's complex legacy BBC News Published 9 July 2020

My family

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: DaveRo
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 07:30 AM

There's a piece on Fergal Keane in the Radio Times if you happen to have that. "From monks to musicians..." - and a picture of Lennon & McCartney!

I can't find that online, but this is worth reading:
Fergal Keane: 'My grandmum joined the IRA and my great-grandfather was an RIC sergeant'

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 05:55 AM

Fergal Keane is the ideal man for this- listen and learn, but we're a long way from Michael Morpurgo

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 02:56 AM

thanks for the heads up

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 02:30 AM

Starts 20.00 tonight BBC Radio 4 How the Irish shaped Britain.

In this series Fergal Keane explores the profound influence the Irish have had on Britain over many centuries, from the vanished tribes of the ancient Celtic world to the Ryanair generation of today. The telling of the story of Britain and Ireland has been dominated by narratives of conquest and rebellion in which a powerful empire attempts to subdue an indomitable native spirit – two different identities colliding throughout history. Fergal presents a more complex narrative.

Today 20.00 Monday 11 January 1/3 Kingdoms of the Broad Sea
He begins with the old kingdoms of the Irish Sea, and travels through the time of the Vikings to the 19th and 20th century migrations, all the way to present day. Throughout the Irish have shaped literature, culture, politics and the physical landscape.

Whether it is 19th century theatre or verse, or today’s pop culture, Irish migrants and their descendants have deeply influenced and steered the UK’s literature and arts. Think of Oscar Wilde and George Bernard Shaw or, more recently, the Beatles, the Sex Pistols, Oasis, or Terry Wogan, Paul Merton, Claire Foy, the Irish and their descendants have had a profound influence on Britishness. The Irish have also been highly influential in the world of business, politics and sport.
As migration, integration and assimilation dominate public debate in Britain, Fergal examines the impact of the longest and biggest immigrant story in the history of the United Kingdom.

20.00 Monday 18 January 2/3 In this episode we begin with the years of the Great Famine. Millions leave Ireland, many of them heading for the port cities of Britain, where they are far from welcome. But soon they become an integral part of the workforce in the factories and shipyards of Scotland and England. Then, in the second half of the 19th century, Irish Fenians, partly in revenge for the famine, launch the first terrorist bombing campaign to hit these shores.

In parallel with that, Irish MPs flex their muscles in Westminster; while on the cultural stage Irish playwrights and writers are bringing the 'English language back to the English'. It’s a pattern that stretches through the decades, to the reconstruction of Britain’s bombed out cities after World War Two and the building of a more modern Britain in the 1950s and 1960s, with the successors of the Irish navvies digging their way underground. Irish descendants also begin to shape the British musical scene.

It’s a tale of rejection and assimilation, of hatred and tolerance, of separateness and of mixing. In the story of how the Irish shaped Britain, as Fergal points out, there are all kinds of narratives and counter-narratives being told at the same time.

20.00 Monday 25 January 3/3 Fergal Keane explores the profound influence the Irish have had on Britain.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:26 AM

Dick,
> you are missing the point entirely, richard, what the speaker is meaning, is that people had to leave ireland to emigrate

I did understand that point. What I am complaining about was the sloppy reference to "the UK". You can't migrate to "the UK" if you already live in the UK, as the inhabitants of Ireland did at that time. The migration was to Britain (and other countries).

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 11:46 AM

Hm, true. Perhaps a little different in Ireland, where all of the bribed were politicians, therefore (at the time) by definition Protestant and Anglo-Irish rather than the native stock.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 11:07 AM

all true, Thompson, but there were plenty of Scottish lords who connived at the Act of Union.
As the song has it....
'We were bought and sold for English gold
   Sic' a parcel o' rogues in a nation'

it's about the Scottish lords who took the gold, NOT the English who bribed them.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:00 AM

(Incidentally, that snip at British thrift of course refers to the British government, not to any English, Scottish or Welsh individuals, all of whom I've met have been generous, kind and honest.)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 08:54 AM

The Act of Union was achieved with mass bribery of Irish peers; with typical British… thrift, it was then repaid out of the taxes raised in Ireland.
It was disastrous for Ireland, because the rich migrated to the new centre of power in London, reducing custom for craftspeople, farmers, retailers, etc; landlords became absentees with profit-grinding agents representing them.
The foundation of the Irish Free State in 1922 after the War of Independence created a partitioned island - with six counties, three of them less than willing, remaining in the United Kingdom and 26 in the new Free State.
In 1937 the country (the 26 counties) was named Ireland and effectively became a republic, with an elected non-executive president as head of state. It was officially declared a republic in 1949, on the enactment of the Republic of Ireland Act.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: DaveRo
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:29 AM

1801, actually.

Acts of Union 1800

Doesn't affect the earlier discission, though.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 05:22 AM

It always used to be the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland(since Scottish Union in 1707) -

see 'Sic a parcel of rogues for more on that). In c 1921 it was reduced to GB & Northern Ireland.

Soon to be reduced to the UK of Kensington & Chelsea.

Yes Sandman, indeed it was down to the English government that so many Irish emigrated here and to Canada, the US & down under.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:16 PM

One speaker refers twice to people leaving Ireland in the 19th century to migrate to "the UK". Worse: that speaker sounds Irish himself. How can he not know that Ireland was part of the UK at that time?
quote richard mellish
you are missing the point entirely, richard, what the speaker is meaning, is that people had to leave ireland to emigrate , to what is now called the uk, they had to emigrate for several reasons, primarily
the british government., through political policies forced them to leave

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 08:08 AM

Maybe they're learning now about such distinctions, with borders going up beween Ireland and Britain & the term UK soon to be obsolete.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 07 Jan 21 - 06:35 AM

I've just, rather late on, started listening to episode 4, Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore (which seems to be about migration in general, not only from Ireland).

One speaker refers twice to people leaving Ireland in the 19th century to migrate to "the UK". Worse: that speaker sounds Irish himself. How can he not know that Ireland was part of the UK at that time? It's understandable that people from outside these islands get confused about England/Britain/the UK, but there's no excuse for a native to do so, and most especially not for an Irishman.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 03:13 AM

Excellent programme, great points made about migrants. well done Karine.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 05:32 PM

Tracklist and interviewed guests;

Folk journey 4/4

Bread and Roses; terrific finish to series specially recorded by Chris While, Julie Matthews, Georgina Boyes, Jim Boyes, Nancy Kerr, Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh & Rosie Hood.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 03:37 PM

Thanks for that. Saw the 'over a year'. Read the track list, clicked sign in but didn't work here. Got a 'won't work' message. Not used iplayer since they made it a sign in thing so it's maybe that. Not to worry.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 12:20 PM

The programme pages currently say
"Available for over a year" which is good news.

Here's the link again for the BBC page with all the episodes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000nllb/episodes/guide

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 11:12 AM

As for podcasts, God, yes; I downloaded a whole series of podcasts - can't remember if it was from the BBC or RTÉ - and the spoken part was there, but not the music, the rascals.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 11:10 AM

Ah, today's is the final programme!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: DaveRo
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 10:04 AM

Thompson wrote: Went looking for the podcast of this...

Some BBC programmes are issued as podcasts, some are not - the essential difference as far as the BBC is concerned is that you can download and keep podcasts. Some podcasts are edited versions of programmes, and some can be longer than the broadcast edition.

They usually, in my experience, don't make podcasts of programmes with music in them, because they don't have sufficient rights to the music. Sometimes they do - but fade or remove the music.

For example, Inside Science is available as a podcast: on its programme page you will see a Download button (in the UK, anyway):
Inside Science

Morgurgo's programme lacks the download button. It will have a 'Listen Now' button (in the UK, anyway) for as long as they make it available (one month?):
Michael Morpurgo - 10,000 miles

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 09:49 AM

Thompson, an aside - I'm looking at adding TuneIn to my quiver of streaming/Internet radio access apps (I had a $5 a month year on Sirius, but it jumps up to $20 a month soon, so I'm looking for streaming stations to replace their offerings) - how long have you used it, and how do you compare the free and the pro versions? Interesting that they have podcasts. Do they host them or are they tied into the other "usual" providers? (Stitcher, etc.) I may have to find an old or start a new thread on this topic.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 07:49 AM

i thought the programme about Graeme miles was better, but i appreciate any folk coverage, despite my criticism, so i will listen later

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 07:28 AM

Well I'm sticking with it this far - it's better than nothing. Analyse and discuss!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 05:49 AM

Went looking for the podcast of this on TuneIn Radio Pro, my internet radio of choice, which normally has podcasts of more or less everything, but nary a sign of it.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 05:44 AM

Joe G
      Eddi Reader has 'an interest in folk music' and you're 'not sure' about George Michael.
An 'interest' is not good enough for me, I'm afraid- I just detest the schmaltzy singing of ER & having had GM's singing inflicted on me many times without asking, I would prefer to remain in ignorance of how he would treat the MacColl classic! Why not use the writer's own version?

It's all a choice and I have no problem with pop singers doing folk songs, or the reverse!! but based on my preferences, why would I CHOOSE to listen to a programme containing such crap?

I'm sure Michael Morpurgo did a grand job of it, but for me, Radio 3 was my CHOICE & that's what it comes down to.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 07:43 PM

as a source of radio programmes on the net "Radio Garden"is quite useful-a bit if listening shows that about half the world listens to western pop music interspersed with inane phone calls!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Joe G
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 06:52 PM

'However, when I see such as George Michael and Eddi Reader performing 'folk' music, I am surely entitled to reject such an offering.'

That seems extremely narrow minded of you. Eddie Reader (whose singing as I said earlier I am not keen on) has a great interest in folk music. Not sure about George Michael but perhaps he has. There is no reason why folk songs should not be sung by singers who have previously been, or who are currently, involved in pop music. There were a large number of well respected folk singers involved in the programme so to say 'such choices of performer indicate how little the producers know about the music in question' is quite frankly ridiculous

Your loss if you do not choose to listen to such excellent programmes

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 05:31 PM

DamN i missed the 100.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 05:30 PM

mY PostS Are a diSGracE,
mY tYpIng i'lL abandon,
mY upPeR AnD lOwEr CaSE
tHeY Just aPpEar At rAndoM.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 05:14 PM

i agree henry, i think overall the programes have been good, and i look forward to listening on monday

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 03:18 PM

Thanks everybody. This has been such a constructive thread.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 03:10 PM

So what are you going to do about it sandyman!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:56 PM

If folks want MP3s at 320kbps then using a VPN with a UK DNS will do it. Best to opay for a VPN service to avoid intrusive ads.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:10 PM

BONZO you made a statement that you cannot corroborate,

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 01:03 PM

BBC and other media groups have no b.. idea of what folkmusic is- Michael Morpurgo is a fine writer and an interest in folk music.
However, when I see such as George Michael and Eddi Reader performing 'folk' music, I am surely entitled to reject such an offering.

I'd reject a jazz programme featuring Acker Bilk for much the same reason- such choices of performer indicate how little the producers know about the music in question.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 12:28 PM

No I would not Sandman, I'll leave that for people with nothing to do.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 12:21 PM

Bonzo , we are all entitled to like different things.
would you like to explain how ashley hutchings stopped a great deal of folk music dying?
I would have nominated cecil sharp and various other collectors before Ashley Hutchings.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 11:33 AM

Supreme folk snobbery isn't it, presumably he would like his "folk songs" performed by some bore with a voice like a bleating sheep!!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Joe G
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 10:50 AM

So patriot you are not going to listen to a programme that features many superb folk artists just because you don't like the singing of George Michael and Eddi Reader. I'm not keen on their singing either (just a personal taste thing rather than folk snobbery) but it wouldn't stope me listening to a programme about folk songs - such programmes are rare enough as it is so I certainly wouldn't dismiss them because they feature musicians people outside the folk world may have actually heard of

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 07:32 AM

"Can I download podcasts and programmes outside of the UK? "

The limitation on downloads from the BBC iplayer outside the UK appears to be that the bit rate is restricted to 92kbps or less which sounds pretty awful when compared with the 320kbps available within the UK, which sounds to tired ears as good as CD quality.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 06:42 AM

1. On this thread, let's steer well clear of the subject of which songs are folk songs.

2. The pop world is largely a closed book to me, but we get exposed to some of it willy nilly as muzak. Many of the songs there and some that turn up in singarounds (live or currently on Zoom) are the sort characterised by Brian as 'my girlfriend dumped me, and I'm so miserable'.

My problem with those is not the scenario, which is a common enough part of the human condition and a perfectly good subject for songs, but the preponderance of the word "you", as if the singer is singing to the ex-lover, despite that person being absent by definition. We can perhaps imagine the song as a letter to the ex-lover, but that seems the wrong format for the singer to be telling us their woes (or vicariously the woes of someone else). Traditional songs on this theme are either couched in the third person ("I heard a maid lament ...") or if first person are addressed to the world at large "'Tis how my love slights me ...").

In "The first time ever" no-one has been dumped and the sentiment is very positive, but otherwise the same applies. As a personal statement from Ewan to Peggy it was excellent, but I have trouble seeing its point when it is sung by someone else to an audience. (However I acknowledge that people enjoy reading Shakespeare's sonnets where the situation is similar.)

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 06:03 AM

And without Ashley Hutchings, a great deal of folk music would have died years ago.

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 05:42 AM

Went to the magnificent Blair Dunlop Band webcast gig last night, in our living room. Excellent folk value for only £8, great self penned folk songs!!!!!

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 05:10 AM

The list was useful- George Michael and Eddi Reader!!    celebs rule!!!
saves me wasting my time listening....

Subject: RE: BBC Radio4 - Morpurgo's Folk Journeys
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 07 Nov 20 - 04:03 AM

Thanks henryp!